Police are investigating a bizarre case of police panic where 115 police officers may have been involved in a car chase and mass shooting incident where two unarmed individuals were killed in a hail of 140 bullets in Cleveland. Police reports contained erroneous or false information on the scene that led to the deaths.
The car chase in November involved two individuals in a 1979 Chevrolet Malibu. Officers David Siefer and James Hummel were following the Malibu when they reported over the radio that they thought they saw the passenger turn in her seat, get onto her knees and extend both arms toward the rear window as if she was holding a gun. Siefer yelled “He’s pointing the gun. He’s pointing the gun out the back window. Heads up. Heads up. Passenger is pointing a gun out the back window. Everybody be careful.” Siefer later admitted that he never saw a gun.
After the chase, the car eventually pulled into a middle school parking lot. The first shots were reportedly fired by Officer Wilfredo Diaz. He was also the first to the car and found Malissa Williams and Timothy Russell, 43, dead . . . and unarmed. They were found to have drugs in their systems.
The city believes that 115 officers were involved in the either the chase or the shooting or both — that is one-third of the officers on duty that night. Some 13 officers fired their weapons despite that fact that no one had shot at the officers. Officer Michael Brelo reported that he saw “the suspects moving and I could not understand why they are still moving, shooting at us. Even through Iraq, I never fired my weapon. I never have been so afraid in my life.”
Some officers assumed that the firing had started from the car while others thought they saw an officer hit or a report of shots fired.
Police frantically searched for a gun, including bringing in a dive team and search crews along the roads. While there are gunpowder residue in the car and on the two suspects, the large amount of rounds fired into the car could easily explain that positive reading.
A police mechanic also found that the car was in a condition that could easily have produced a backfire sound from the engine.
Source: Cleveland
Kudos: Michael Blott
Scratch the above. Pushing the wrong buttons.
Lost my post too. Skit.
In short don’t believe Occam’s razor solves this extent and frequency of the occurences and geo spread.
Same to GeneH,
Blaming it on one guy is too pat and easy to say. But how come there are so many such incidents. I still suspect your for being a CIA disinfo man. Just like EBSB is an FBI entrapment tool. Hee hee. You write “good” so disinfo way.
FranklyI’ll go with Frankly.
Plus, is it not time to find a good reason to take over power (and the oil).
Or at least use a little drone activity. We got’em in Eritrea, Ethiopia, and Djibouti (allegedly). Of course we will deny the attacks and blame internal Saudi rebels who blow up mosques and desert mansions. Ho ho Princes and Saudi clerical debauchers.
Well, at least they didn’t plant a gun in the car afterwards. Maybe the police are getting marginally better in their conduct. Now if they would stop arresting people and erasing their videos/pics, of those who film them engaging in police misconduct.
Who did not anticipate this? Police union spokesperson “Our officers did a great job.”
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/12/cleveland_police_union_officia.html
Who did not anticipate this? “Our officers did a great job.”
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/12/cleveland_police_union_officia.html
Proof that imaginary weapons can kill, just like the “zero tolerance” schools teach.
“A lot of what I read here was CYA on behalf of some individuals. I don’t buy the emotive line that one officer said “I have never been so scared in my life”. I believe, though it is only an opinion, the officer was pumping up the “feared for life” aspect to justify his shooting. And that 49 rounds were fired. That is greatly excessive. That is three 16 round 9mm magazines plus one in the chamber. (I would venture to say every bullet he had)
I agree. The news story also indicated that this same cop “climbed onto the trunk and then the top of a zone car and reloaded his gun, firing rounds into the Malibu.” If you’re truly scared shitless, wouldn’t you be taking cover behind a car, instead of standing on it and making yourself a much easier target?
Also, 60 cars and 115 officers involved in the chase? That seems excessive, and perhaps contributed to the heightened sense of danger and excessive shooting.
I am particularly concerned about the District Attorney’s video response, attacking the system for “failing the officers” without once commenting on the unwarranted deaths of the victims. He further comments on the “miracle” that officers were not hurt. Surreal.
Autopsy results showed Russell had alcohol and cocaine in his system, and Williams had marijuana and cocaine in her system.
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did anybody check the cops?
The Cleveland police are a ragtag, undertrained, undisciplined mob. I’ve never seen one, including detectives, wear a seat belt (same with the Cuyahoga county deputies). It takes only a few minutes of COPS to see the difference between this group and most any CA department. This incident shows how out of control they and their suburban brothers are. I don’t expect a single indictment from this.
It was interesting to see the chief at a press conference Tuesday night. He sweated profusely, lying and covering up for his troops. I hope he doesn’t gamble any heavier than his church’s basement Bingo, ’cause he’d lose his pension in a poker game.
This was a disaster and a tradgedy. There is not really any single particular failure that lead to this but a combination of many things that went wrong, some very glaring, others that aggravated the situation.
I can see how the woman turning around on the seat and holding her arms out is a similar gesture to someone who MIGHT be holding a gun. That is as far as it goes. These types of gestures give officers only a second or two to determine if a gun is being held or not. But while the car is moving, it is not as dangerous as if the officer was standing five feet away. This is something that should have been verified or at least waited to see how it would play out.
A lot of what I read here was CYA on behalf of some individuals. I don’t buy the emotive line that one officer said “I have never been so scared in my life”. I believe, though it is only an opinion, the officer was pumping up the “feared for life” aspect to justify his shooting. And that 49 rounds were fired. That is greatly excessive. That is three 16 round 9mm magazines plus one in the chamber. (I would venture to say every bullet he had)
The extent to which the department went to find a smoking gun here is another indication of CYA. One alleges that a backfire was made, and then how that could be interpreted as a gunshot. (a lesser defense of “well, we thought a gunshot was made, oh it was a backfire. The officer made an honest mistake given the situation) Even how they found a police mechanic to certify the car could have made a backfire.
One of the issues that can happen in military or police shootings is that once someone starts shooting, it evokes nearly everyone else to start shooting. It becomes somewhat of a feedback loop. That is why yelling “cease fire” is necessary. That is one thing that can happen when a situation where there are too many officers on scene and it is not controlled.
I know how close some issues can be because I have had it happen. But in this case I can say it seems to me there should have been more restraint on behalf of the officers, even though there was a report of the passenger holding a gun, because the situation was magnified by some rather systemic problems the officers brought to the situation.
False information kills again.
And if they HAD had a gun, then they would have blown this story up.
“There were plenty of breakdowns that need to be examined.”
And I don’t disagree with that, however and as you recognize, whether by intentional lie or mistake, the root of the causation for the panic rests in reporting a situation that did not exist. Regardless of intent, I also think this shows Siefer to be unfit material for LE.
707 – occams razor.
If they need to drill there are plenty of ways to do that that would not draw so much attention to themselves. Lose of control makes much more sense.
Gene – it is possible at the time under the stress he did think he saw a gun & later realize that he had not. Or he might have wanted to jack up the situation for attention or to bring more help. His words certainly set the table for what happened and he deserves a lot of attention for them but I bet nobody followed proper procedure, that they all had been trained in, when they got to that parking lot. By providing the suggestion there was a gun I’m sure he induced a lot of others to ‘see’ one when they got there. There were plenty of breakdowns that need to be examined.
Yep gene….. You have the basis of the issue in tact….
“Siefer yelled ‘He’s pointing the gun. He’s pointing the gun out the back window. Heads up. Heads up. Passenger is pointing a gun out the back window. Everybody be careful.’ Siefer later admitted that he never saw a gun.”
Therein lies the problem.
Frankly,
Thanks for your measured reply. But it may not address the root of this issue.
Read mine, which I think is closer. It reads like a synopsis of a B-grade chase movie. We don’t get to meet either Bonnie or Clyde this time.
Iraq “veterans”, nothing to do that night, face a gun, WOW.
Not sure if this was not a “dry run” like they had recently in Miami which we saw the video, The coop test between the cops and the military.
Of course it may have been planned as a “suppression” move long in advance, waiting for the right time to catch the police squads off guard.
You know, one car can contain a whole revolution. So you give a message to John Doe while testing your troops readiness and state of training.
Comments, Blouise?
Even highly trained cops can completely lose it when the stinky hits the whirly. Yet we are to believe we will all be a lot safer once everyone is armed all the time.
Who knows what caused this mass hysteria? I am sure LEOs have experience with pursuit and rules and regulations that would not have everyone show up & a dozen or so start shooting, but once it started there was no way it would end well. With that sort of breakdown it is stunning that officers were not hit with friendly fire or that bystanders were not injured. We need to think a lot more about how we select, train, equip and treat police officers; this bunch obviously needs help. This should never happen.