While the North Carolina House of Representatives has finally killed the bill to allow the state to establish a state religion, a new study found that 34 percent of adults would favor establishing Christianity as the official state religion. While 47 percent opposed the establishment of state religion, it was less than a majority.
Another 11 percent thought that the Constitution allowed for the establishment of an official religion. Thus, they are entirely unaware of the workings of the first amendment or the prior rulings of the Supreme Court.
Republicans were the most likely to favor the establishment of a state religion with 55 percent favoring it in their own state and 46 percent favoring a national constitutional amendment.
While the poll reportedly included 1000 people (a sizable group), I still want to believe that it is skewed and that most people recognize the danger of religious-based government in a world torn apart of sectarian violence. Even if these people lack knowledge of the Constitution, they are given a daily lesson on the dangers of state-sponsored religion in their newspapers and news broadcasts. For those advocating such a change, they leave us with the chilling view that, for some, the problem with abusive theocratic regimes like Iran is simply the disagreement with the choice of the religion.
Source: HuffPost
Tony,
You can continue to build all the straw men you want and ignore that tools don’t use themselves until the cows come home. No sweat off my back. Degree of inherent danger is only slightly relevant in this instance as a single shot derringer can kill you dead just as well as .50 cal. machine gun. One is just a lot messier than the other. As to your point in 2), I’ve already stipulated that the industry should be required to make safer firearms as a reasonable restriction so that’s a moot point unless you just want to argue it for the sake of seeing it again. As for intent, intent is only material (in the case of killings) to the charge and the possible penalty, but there is no such thing as a mens rea only crime (unless the theocrats get their way). Actus reus is required. That the mens rea might be fleeting is immaterial to an action taken. Even crimes with a substantive mens rea component like conspiracy require that an action be taken in furtherance. Even attempted murder means you tried. We don’t punish people for what they think about doing or for how long they think about doing it, only for what they do.
AY,
The only guns that would be illegal would be the so-called assault weapons and high capacity magazines. There is already flashback. Except the flashback is on the victims. The kids in Newtown were flashback for doing nothing. As were the kids in Columbine, Virginia Tech, Northern Illinois University and the scores of school shootings in the last 20 years.
Bron,
I’m funna ya…. Now if you were the sheriff from Georgia…. Or Rick Perry’s uncle….different story…. They do like their mules….
AY:
I dont know how the women in Texas look, but the ones in Columbia were mighty fine and not at all beast like.
Bron,
Most other parts of the country still call it beastility ……
OS:
“For example, Margaret Mead’s studies of the sexual culture of south Pacific islanders cannot be generalized to Kansas.”
I dont know, I went to school in the midwest and there was plenty of free love.
Gene said:
“That loon in Newtown could have killed just as many if not more people with some gasoline, a lighter and one of the hundreds of ways he could have secured the doors to the building available at any hardware store. Burned? Shot? Dead is dead. He was determined to kill and he’d have found another way if he hadn’t had the guns.”
I think these folk who use guns may do so because it carries less of a risk to themselves of being horribly injured, disfigured, or having an exceedingly painful death (even if they decide to suicide I doubt they think about the possibility of failing.) For those who would do it from afar, using say fire, it may give too much distance: They want to see the faces frozen in fear or the bodies as they fall.
It would be a very interesting study to ask those who did not suicide if they would have chosen another method had they not access to the guns
OS,
And I agree…. That’s why gun control in the US will be utterly impossible without flashback…… And I think I mean major ones….. There are some areas of this country that would readily embrace such measures…. They are populated and rural….. But at the same breath there are areas populated and rural that would as soon shoot you as let you take their hand gun or rifle….
You make a valuable point as well as Elaine’s on the thread today…..
Today In Responsible Gun Ownership
By Charles P. Pierce
4/9/13
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/today-in-gun-ownership-040913
Holy mother of god.
“Investigators say Wilson County Deputy Daniel Fanning on Saturday was showing his weapons to a relative in a bedroom of his Lebanon home when the toddler came in and picked up a gun off the bed. Sheriff Robert Bryan says the weapon discharged, hitting 48-year-old Josephine Fanning. She was pronounced dead at the scene. The child is not related to her or her husband. Bryan says the shooting was a terrible accident and that within seconds of Fanning placing the gun on the bed, the toddler picked it up.”
Really? And I thought he might be a tiny hit man, a juicebox button man. A gun is big and shiny and looks interesting to toddlers. If you put a lug wrench down on the bed, the toddler would pick that up, too. It’s just that a lug wrench can’t go off and actually kill somebody standing across the room. And this guy was a deputy sheriff. I certainly have great faith in the NRA’s plan to arm Waldo, the Middle School Janitor to the teeth and send him out into the halls some Monday morning when he’s had a rough weekend at deer camp.
AY,
Regarding Switzerland.
Social science researchers have known for more than a hundred years you cannot transpose studies that have controlling cultural elements. Those kinds of studies introduce what are called “intervening variables” into the data. Intervening variables cannot be quantified, because of the problem of false equivalence. For example, Margaret Mead’s studies of the sexual culture of south Pacific islanders cannot be generalized to Kansas.
G.Mason
“Fascism of any party is bad bad BAD. I am not sure which party I would trust less with absolute power. Both would end up pretty evil and oppressive. ”
Care to explain what exactly fascism has to do with regulating access to firearms? Because, I’ve looked and I’ve looked… and I’ve looked, and well I guess it’s mildly authoritarian, but only in the same way that say enforcing traffic laws is.
On the other hand, i doubt very much that you are a liberal, or progressive. Your wording gives you away, “leftist,” “gun grabber,” lumping Hitler in as a “commie,” all point to you as someone who frequents right wing organizations and websites. The fact that you came in here and disrupted the flow of conversation, rerouting the stream from a (mainly) right wing issue (Wanting to establish a state religion) to one that is used as an attack on liberals (those leftists want to steal your guns), is also telling. I mean, it’s a great play, way more sophisticated than just coming in and insulting people. “yeah, this is really bad, but look at this bad thing that we’re doing…” followed by ONLY addressing the second bad thing.
But hey, that’s just suspicion based on a few phrases, and a pattern of behavior that pretty well matches a known trolling strategy. I have no way of knowing how sincere you are. So, I’ll say the following assuming you’re being absolutely sincere, that you used to be a “gun grabber” and then decided that everybody who favors stronger gun control would change their mind if they only saw the light the way YOU saw it. Converts are often the most evengelical about their new found philosophy, hobby, religion, etc. The fact is, it just doesn’t matter. The results are the same regardless of your intentions. You’re still using words that are meant to belittle or demonize your opposition, You’re still steering the conversation towards what YOU want to talk about, which is how bad people who want stronger regulations than you are. You’re still doing things in a way that upsets people who disagree with you and puts them on the defensive. That’s a very poor tactic to bring people to your side.
Harry Reid Cites Father’s Suicide In Gun Control Plea (VIDEO)
The Huffington Post
By Mollie Reilly
Posted: 04/09/2013
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/09/harry-reid-father-suicide_n_3045105.html
Excerpt:
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) took to the Senate floor on Tuesday to urge his colleagues to vote on gun control legislation, citing his own father’s suicide while making the case for tougher gun laws.
“In Nevada, if you purchase a handgun you have to wait three days to pick it up,” Reid said, referencing a bill he authored as a state lawmaker. “And it’s believed that alone has saved the lives of many people. Sometimes people in a fit of passion will purchase a handgun to do bad things with it, Mr. President, even as my dad did, killed himself. Waiting a few days helps.”
Reid’s father committed suicide in 1972.
On Monday, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) announced his plans to join some of his Republican colleagues in filibustering the gun control package Reid is attempting to bring to a vote. McConnell is the 14th Republican to join the effort, which was first announced by Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.)
While the filibuster has gained steam, some Republicans are urging the senators to drop the plan.
2 Shootings Involve 4-Year-Olds In 3 Days
AP/The Huffington Post
Posted: 04/09/2013
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/09/gun-violence-children-shooters_n_3044642.html
Excerpt:
As the debate around gun control raged in Washington, 2 4-year-olds were involved in horrific shooting incidents over the past 3 days.
In Tennessee, a 4-year old boy shot and killed the wife of a state sheriff’s deputy on Saturday, according to police.
In Toms River, New Jersey, on Monday night, a 4-year-old shot a 6-year old in the head with a .22 caliber rifle, authorities say.
AY,
Mythbusting: Israel and Switzerland are not gun-toting utopias
Posted by Ezra Klein
December 14, 2012
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/mythbusting-israel-and-switzerland-are-not-gun-toting-utopias/
Excerpt:
My post “12 facts about guns and mass shootings” included a mention of Israel and Switzerland, societies where guns are reputed to be widely available, but where gun violence is rare. Janet Rosenbaum, an assistant professor of epidemiology at the School of Public Health at the State University of New York (SUNY) Downstate Medical Center School, has actually researched this question, and she wrote to tell me I had it wrong. We spoke shortly thereafter on the phone. A lightly edited transcript of our conversation follows.
Ezra Klein: Israel and Switzerland are often mentioned as countries that prove that high rates of gun ownership don’t necessarily lead to high rates of gun crime. In fact, I wrote that on Friday. But you say your research shows that’s not true.
Janet Rosenbaum: First of all, because they don’t have high levels of gun ownership. The gun ownership in Israel and Switzerland has decreased.
For instance, in Israel, they’re very limited in who is able to own a gun. There are only a few tens of thousands of legal guns in Israel, and the only people allowed to own them legally live in the settlements, do business in the settlements, or are in professions at risk of violence.
Both countries require you to have a reason to have a gun. There isn’t this idea that you have a right to a gun. You need a reason. And then you need to go back to the permitting authority every six months or so to assure them the reason is still valid.
The second thing is that there’s this widespread misunderstanding that Israel and Switzerland promote gun ownership. They don’t. Ten years ago, when Israel had the outbreak of violence, there was an expansion of gun ownership, but only to people above a certain rank in the military. There was no sense that having ordinary citizens [carry guns] would make anything safer.
Switzerland has also been moving away from having widespread guns. The laws are done canton by canton, which is like a province. Everyone in Switzerland serves in the army, and the cantons used to let you have the guns at home. They’ve been moving to keeping the guns in depots. That means they’re not in the household, which makes sense because the literature shows us that if the gun is in the household, the risk goes up for everyone in the household.
EK: As I understand it, there’s a stronger link between guns and suicide than between guns and homicide. And one of the really interesting parts of your paper is your recounting of the Israeli military’s effort to cut suicides among soldiers by restricting access to guns.
JR: Yes, it’s very striking. In Israel, it used to be that all soldiers would take the guns home with them. Now they have to leave them on base. Over the years they’ve done this — it began, I think, in 2006 — there’s been a 60 percent decrease in suicide on weekends among IDS soldiers. And it did not correspond to an increase in weekday suicide. People think suicide is an impulse that exists and builds. This shows that doesn’t happen. The impulse to suicide is transitory. Someone with access to a gun at that moment may commit suicide, but if not, they may not.
Elaine,
Your unbiased thoroughness is always appreciated…. Check out Switzerland …. They have some amazing studies….
Blouise,
Right you are!
AY,
I wasn’t implying that more information isn’t needed–just adding more information/fodder for discussion. I do believe we Americans need to address/examine the issue of guns and gun violence in this country–and why we appear to have such a high homicide/gun-violence rate compared to other industrialized/wealthy countries.
Elaine,
It’s a classic Catch-22 … one must provide more info but can’t get more info ’cause all info has been censored … too bad, one must provide more info but can’t get more info ’cause all info has been censored … too bad, one must provide more info but can’t get ……………………
A truly brilliant con
tony c:
have you trained in fung shui kung fu? It is very deadly, my wife kills me every time she moves the furniture.
This report posted on the University of California, essentially says what I said. This is commentary and analysis of the study by Dr. Garen Wintemute, an emergency medicine physician and director of the Violence Prevention Research Program at the University of California, Davis. Dr. Wintermute says, in part:
Source:
http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/29158#content