New York State Senator Greg Ball (R) took little time after the Boston bombing to call for the torture of 19-year-old Dzokhar Tsarnaev. Ball went to Twitter to call for the teenager to be tortured in the name of all of the values we hold dear as Americans.
Ball sent out a tweet stating “So, scum bag #2 in custody. Who wouldn’t use torture on this punk to save more lives?” It is the new normal in America. Ball feels entirely comfortable in speaking of torture in the most casual terms. It also shows how torture is always the answer since you cannot say for sure that there are not more bombs after an attack.
Later, Ball dismissed notions that torture (which is a federal crime and a violation of international law) is wrong: “If people find that offensive, they’re going to have to check their own conscience,” he reportedly said.
Later his office issued a statement:
“Terrorists play by a different set of rules by manipulating the greatest strengths of our open society against us. One of the questions to be asked is this: is “torture” ever justified in the war against terror, if it can save lives? I am not shy in joining those who say yes, and I believe we must give those tasked with protecting us every constitutional and effective tool to do so.”
“Every constitutional and effective tool” for Ball includes a tool long defined as a war crime. I have previously written about the corruption of American values on torture.
The willingness of politicians like Ball to embrace torture is a product not simply of the Bush Administration’s legitimation of torture but the Obama Administration’s refusal to prosecute anyone for torture. As I have written before (here and here), the Obama Administration has destroyed some of the core Nuremberg principles, particularly in its revisal of the “superior orders defense” to excuse U.S. officials. The failure to prosecute has allowed those who ordered the torture program to continue to speak out in favor of torture. It has destroyed any credibility of the United States in demanding prosecutions in other countries and given support for politicians like Ball to rally supporters behind a banner of torture.
Ball’s bio states that he “grew up on the family estate of Stephen and Jean Kennedy-Smith, sister of President John F. Kennedy, where his parents were both caretakers. He is the Chairman of the Senate Committee on Veterans, Homeland Security, and Military Affairs.” He is a graduate of United States Air Force Academy (USAFA) and is currently completing his Thesis for his Master’s of Arts in Liberal Studies with a concentration in International Affairs from Georgetown University.
Source: Raw Story
Remember in Lethal Weapon II when the bad guy tortures Mel Gibson, and it’s meant to establish just how BAD he is?
Torture is evil. It’s evil when people who aren’t American do it, and it’s evil when Americans do it.
How you respond to any situation says absolutely nothing about the person your responding to, and everything about you.
A couple points —
Re the Death Penalty:
He’s definitely eligible for the federal death penalty: Use of a weapon of mass destruction resulting in three deaths, and two homicides in the course of unlawful flight to avoid prosecution (the MIT police officer and his own brother, who reportedly was alive when run over in the course of his escape).
The federal insanity defense was rewritten after John Hinckley was acquitted.
18 USC 17 provides:
“(a) Affirmative Defense.— It is an affirmative defense to a prosecution under any Federal statute that, at the time of the commission of the acts constituting the offense, the defendant, as a result of a severe mental disease or defect, was unable to appreciate the nature and quality or the wrongfulness of his acts. Mental disease or defect does not otherwise constitute a defense.
(b) Burden of Proof.— The defendant has the burden of proving the defense of insanity by clear and convincing evidence.”
There are those who view this kind of religious zeal as a severe mental disease or defect, but I don’t think that will be the case here.
In time it might sink in upon the hearts and minds of young America and the world that the Punk Puss look,i.e. caps backwards, backpack, manner of walking, etc will subject this particular Punk Puss to being anally raped when he is in open population in prison. That is the origin of the word “punk”. The word had no origin in punk rock. Bad sex crazed inmates will rape a punk. He who looks like a punk, gets punked. You all can guess what the verbage “getting punked” means. He will probably be in solitary or controlled confinement for the next 20 years because he is so attractive to he pervs.
This needs to be shoved in the face of all those punks out there that thinks that this “look” is “cool”.
So, if your kid is sporting a hoodie, a ball cap worn backwards, a backpack with the slouch, then yell at him and let him know that he is looking punk and by punk as in prison punk. You are like a girl at the beach in a bikini to the guys. To the perps you are toast when ya get locked up.
Punk Puss’ of the world take note. Ya ain’t cool, ya cause perps in prison to drool. Is that a hip enouigh way of putting it to ya? No pun intended.
Anonymously Yours 1, April 22, 2013 at 4:32 pm
…
As you are aware Gene, I am against the death penalty unless…. And unless it involves a rape resulting in death…. Or abuse of a child…. Then shoot the bast$&$@ on the spot……
So you see there’s really no disagreement…
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One report has it that Massachusetts has no death penalty.
It is not lawful there.
So, the feds have alleged interstate issues to give them jurisdiction and the potential for the death penalty:
(Guardian). That report goes on to say that one of the defendants, when the Mercedes SUV was hijacked, stated:
(ibid). The SUV guy escaped, they did not let him go.
One of the best reports I have read on the case so far.
If the defendant is sentenced to life, I imagine he will be remanded to the custody of ADX Florence. Maybe that will be sufficient for Senator Ball, but probably not. But who cares what he thinks anyway, the justice process should continue regardless.
Carmen M. Ortiz is being rehabilitated in the same way cops that screw up are; give them a promotion or medal of some kind after they screw up and get caught and send them back out on the street. She’s being given an easy assignment that will give her a lot of good publicity. It’s also a thumb in the eye of everyone that signed one of the ‘Fire Her’ petitions that have been circulating so it’s a twofer’. She’s got a history of excess zeal that doesn’t look good on US Atty’s. (objectively) but she fits right in at the Justice Dept.
AY,
M’Naughten has five specific criteria. When it was formulated, it was as if they never wanted anyone to be found NGRI again.
The ALI standard is somewhat more flexible. However, there are two hurdles one must get past. First he has to be competent to stand trial, and that is not guaranteed. Second, they have to prove guilt, which may not be as much of a slam dunk as some posturing politicians and pundits would have you believe.
Hi Otteray! Long time no hear from… My fault I know… Anyway, I don’t think little “PunkPuss” will see one day of trial in a US courtroom. Now that the “Bïtċh of Buchenwald” is in charge of CIA NCS (national clandestine service) he will probably be rendition-ed to none other than Vladimir Putin. Why? Because Russia is our “friend” now and we have the annoying habit of renditioning suspected bad guys to our “friends” when they are suspected of terror against said friend. It will probably be framed up as a extradition for alleged crimes or plots committed pre-2001, when he arrived in USA. But since he was only 8-years old it probably would not stick. Therefore they might aim at Anzor and Zubeidat Tsarnaev, his parents, and extradite (rendition) all of them.
PunkPuss’ brother was working with the Chechens who are at a kind of “cold war” with Russia right now. My source seems to think that this bombing was a ploy of some sort inspired by the Chechens (et al). He also thinks some other things too which make no sense to me but that’s Wayne Madsen’s brain I guess. He has friends in very low places (LOL).
Last post got moderator attention for the use of Bïtċh I think (LOL)
Otteray Scribe 1, April 22, 2013 at 5:36 pm
White House spokesman Jay Carney:
“He will not be treated as an enemy combatant,” Carney said. “We will prosecute this terrorist through our civilian system of justice. Under U.S. law, United States citizens cannot be tried in military commissions.”
(emphasis mine)
Talk about poisoning the jury pool!
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Bingo.
So much for caring that justice is done.
This is Ortizinan caring about a “guilty” no matter how it is attained.
Like JT said a couple of days ago.
The pool is already tainted….
OS,
i do not disagree with you…. as you stated each state is different…. but then stand that i learned is Mcnaughten….. but hey… youre the professional in this matter… in which i defer …. i really have no car in the soap box derby…..bhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M’Naghten_rules
I caught that too, OS. Further blurring the line between criminal law and the Law of War as well. But what can you expect? That’s a consequence of declaring war on a tactic instead of a group of people, for example, the country that provided the money and manpower for 9/11 – Saudi Arabia. A great many crimes induce terror in their victims. It doesn’t necessarily follow that the perps are terrorists.
Gene H. 1, April 22, 2013 at 3:37 pm
…
This, of course, presumes he’s found guilty. We don’t know the extent or nature of his involvement yet. If he were coerced and there is proof? That’s a game changer for instance.
…
====================================
Bingo.
White House spokesman Jay Carney:
(emphasis mine)
Talk about poisoning the jury pool!
Just so you all know… the CIA in Langley VA was attacked by a lone Muslim extremist from Pakistan on 25-January-1993, He killed two CIA employees (one an actual spook) and wounded three others. He used a Type 56 assault rifle (he bought in VA) which is the Chinese copy of the Kalashnikov AK-47.
They eventually captured him and he stood trial, found guilty, and was executed in Virginia back in 2002 by lethal injection. But there was no torture (EIT) or any other Senator Ball type mentality. They captured him with HUMINT (human intelligence) which primarily uses stealth and guile among other things. They tricked him to return to a safer rendition location in Punjab province as he was holed up in the more dangerous Durand Line Border Region. The CIA even allowed FBI agents to do the take down at the hotel.
They tricked him with the number #1 human vice: greed and selfishness. They used a gambit about him smuggling and selling Russian gadgets to Pakistanis and getting rich. That’s how this Chechen kid (if he actually has any actionable intelligence in his brain) should be treated. Win him over with kindness from a stranger and let him come to his own false conclusions. You’d be surprised how many people fall for that crap and give up the family jewels.
For backgrounder on this story Google: Mir Qazi or “1993 shootings at CIA Headquarters”
While state laws for competency to stand trial may vary somewhat, the Dusky case is controlling:
“sufficient present ability to consult with his lawyer with a reasonable degree of rational understanding” and a “rational as well as factual understanding of the proceedings against him.”
Dusky v. United States, 362 U.S. 402 (1960)
Massachusetts law does not specify what the psychologist or psychiatrist must use as a standard, so one has to assume they use the Dusky criteria.
http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXVII/Chapter123/Section15
Criminal responsibility is a completely different assessment from competency. If he has had a brain injury, it will affect both competency and responsibility. In what way, I have no idea. In fact, no one will until he is assessed. I will say this. The brain is the most fragile organ of the body. When any kind of major trauma happens to the head, bone transmits energy throughout the head, even if the originating trauma is not directly to the brain case.
I do think that we need to ridicule the punk deffendant and his ways. The caps backwards, the backpack and the slouch. The hoodie. All these items of American punk kid human behavior need to be ridiculed. Trayvon too. We need to pen a nickname on this guy. I say: Punk Puss. Chimine in here on this one folks. And charge him with the felony murder of his Muslim Brother. That ought to rouse the Brothers. And when he goes to prison and gets the question: What are ya here for? He has to say,” Count One I killed my brother. Count Two a little boy. Count Three a jogger, Count Four another innocent jogger. Count Five, maybe you inmates will approve of this one, I killed a cop.”
“Yeah, but Punk Puss, caps backwards dont work in da joint. Meet SquirtyPunker, he has something for ya.”
Spread the word. His name is Punk Puss.
First of all the kid can not talk because he was wounded in the throat by a LEO’s bullet. So how is he supposed to reply to waterboarding? With a notepad?
The scuttlebutt (i.e Wayne Madsen ex-NSA agent) says that the brother was connected to an actual conspiracy The kid was supposedly blindly following his brother who was “radicalized” by Caucasus Emirate of Doku Umarov, a Chechen guerrilla leader who has been responsible for a number of deadly terrorist bombings inside Russia (source: http://www.waynemadsenreport.com).
So what will the kid reveal? He was compartmentalized and “keep like a mushroom” (kept in the dark and feed manure – disinformation). That’s why torture NEVER works. OK… yes you get A STORY but you are getting a pre-arranged verifiable story designed for just in case you get caught story. The Russian KGB perfected this method decades ago (i.e. Google Lt. Col. Yuri Ivanovich Nosenko). Kept the CIA chasing rabbit holes for 5 years!
So this brilliant Senator from NY is showing his benighted understanding of EIT (extreme interrogation techniques). And he is on the committee that are supposed to know this stuff. That is scary that these so called leaders are so stupid.
Don’t let the movie ZERO DARK THIRTY fool you. Torture does not work – ever. Unfortunately the woman that inspired the first illegal CIA EIT used on “suspected” SW Asian insurgents is now the head of our CIA’s NCS and her boss (DCI Brennan) is the guy who supported this and even introduced killer Predator Drones.
You do know that UAV Predators are now authorized for CONUS airspace? Wait for the next midair collision or near miss. Oops! Already happened last in March at NYC JFK airport!
nick:
I read that book and I dont buy Japanese anymore, that was some book and one tough man. Although I never did except a camera once. I get my cars [at least for my daughter] and electronics from the Koreans.
Nick:
http://jonathanturley.org/2013/01/15/prosecutor-of-aaron-swartz-linked-to-another-suicide-of-defendant/
Carmen M. Ortiz, I guess I am assuming she is the only attorney with that name in the justice department.
Why kill the kid, honestly his brother probably put him up to it and the brother was probably brain washed by some radical Imam. He is the one ultimately responsible for the destruction all those lives and those broken bodies.
Send a hell fire missile up his a$$.