New York State Senator Greg Ball (R) took little time after the Boston bombing to call for the torture of 19-year-old Dzokhar Tsarnaev. Ball went to Twitter to call for the teenager to be tortured in the name of all of the values we hold dear as Americans.
Ball sent out a tweet stating “So, scum bag #2 in custody. Who wouldn’t use torture on this punk to save more lives?” It is the new normal in America. Ball feels entirely comfortable in speaking of torture in the most casual terms. It also shows how torture is always the answer since you cannot say for sure that there are not more bombs after an attack.
Later, Ball dismissed notions that torture (which is a federal crime and a violation of international law) is wrong: “If people find that offensive, they’re going to have to check their own conscience,” he reportedly said.
Later his office issued a statement:
“Terrorists play by a different set of rules by manipulating the greatest strengths of our open society against us. One of the questions to be asked is this: is “torture” ever justified in the war against terror, if it can save lives? I am not shy in joining those who say yes, and I believe we must give those tasked with protecting us every constitutional and effective tool to do so.”
“Every constitutional and effective tool” for Ball includes a tool long defined as a war crime. I have previously written about the corruption of American values on torture.
The willingness of politicians like Ball to embrace torture is a product not simply of the Bush Administration’s legitimation of torture but the Obama Administration’s refusal to prosecute anyone for torture. As I have written before (here and here), the Obama Administration has destroyed some of the core Nuremberg principles, particularly in its revisal of the “superior orders defense” to excuse U.S. officials. The failure to prosecute has allowed those who ordered the torture program to continue to speak out in favor of torture. It has destroyed any credibility of the United States in demanding prosecutions in other countries and given support for politicians like Ball to rally supporters behind a banner of torture.
Ball’s bio states that he “grew up on the family estate of Stephen and Jean Kennedy-Smith, sister of President John F. Kennedy, where his parents were both caretakers. He is the Chairman of the Senate Committee on Veterans, Homeland Security, and Military Affairs.” He is a graduate of United States Air Force Academy (USAFA) and is currently completing his Thesis for his Master’s of Arts in Liberal Studies with a concentration in International Affairs from Georgetown University.
Source: Raw Story
@Blouise – I’ve always admired Ben Franklin. He was involved in quite a few conspiracies of his own. When he was in France (cheating on his wife), he successively fooled British spies as to his true intent for his visits. Namely to get French support in the war.
A little known fact: Franklin set up and deployed a team of buccaneers or pirates to plunder British shipping. However, as greed would have it he could not control them and had to disband them.
I particularly like how he “borrowed” the basics for the D.O.I. from the Haudenosaunee Iroquois Confederacy. That was a shrewd move of plagiarism as the victims had no venue to complain to.
And I’m still trying to figure out how they got Chief Passyunk (Delaware Nation) to deed over Philadelphia area and New Jersey to them. There may not be any legal standing on that to this day.
Swarthmore mom 1, April 23, 2013 at 12:46 pm
Blouise, I look the truthers up when someone starts quoting them . They are really quite a self promoting bunch. The Southern Poverty Center has done some very informative research on them.
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Ditto for the fictioners.
Especially the detail on the Memphis jury trial that found that the early truthers were correct about the conspiracy to assassinate Dr. King:
(Dr. King Is Remembered). Like Noam Chomsky of Cambridge recently in lock-down said in a recent speech: “it takes real genius not to see it.”
Here’s some high strangeness for you:
1) How did Mr. Doku Umarov know about the Boston bomb drill that was concurrent with his operation? There was also a military drill during 9/11. How did they know about it too?
2) How did the law enforcement know how to shut down all cell-phone service to stop any further bombs? I must admit that was one awesome move I would have never thought of. Was it cell-phone-jammers or a cell provider pre-arrangement?
3) Why were the Sandy Hook Connecticut parent victims bleachers targeted? They disarmed a bomb under the bleachers.
4) Was the woman that died and the man that had his legs blown off the real targets? If so why? Maybe there where no specific targets only mass causality goals by Umarov. He didn’t get that many as it was 4 bombs in total. Only 2 went off. That’s not really “mass destruction”.
5) Why didn’t Umarov give the brothers a better exit-strategy? Like an a secondary hired assassin to finish off the brothers to clear up any loose ends. I know a bit morbid. But you know the Caucasus Emirates are not going to supply a helicopter-exfil and false-flags (i.e. false documents like passports).
Can anybody think of any more? I’m just brainstorming here…
No need to torture Dzhokhar. Let’s torture Umarov… just for the justice of it all; even if it reveals nothing. That’s what the new female director of CIA/NCS did and was depicted in Zero Dark Thirty movie.
SwM,
Besides, conspiracy theories are built into our DNA. The Founders were convinced (Franklin was the last to come on board) that Parliament was involved in a “Great Conspiracy” to take our rights as free Englishmen, freemen, thus to “enslave” us forever. See the DOI:
” The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.”
Blouise, I look the truthers up when someone starts quoting them . They are really quite a self promoting bunch. The Southern Poverty Center has done some very informative research on them.
Porkchop 1, April 23, 2013 at 8:47 am
Dredd:
“Speaking of conspiracy theories, one of the federal charges was conspiracy.”
Actually, no — there is no conspiracy charge at this point. He was charged with:
“(1): Use of a weapon of mass destruction, in violation of 18, United States Code, Section 2332a(a); and malicious destruction of property resulting in death, in violation of 18, United States Code, Section 844(i).”
That information is from the transcript of his initial appearance.
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Actually YES again.
The sworn affadivit of the special agent attached to the less detailed pleading or transcript you cite to, goes on to say under oath:
(Guardian, emphasis added). As I stated above, the statute also covers “attempts” to use a WMD following a conspiracy … for example … any unexploded ones made to be exploded.
SwM,
I’ve never read anything by him and doubt I ever will.
@Michael Powell – OK I’ll bite… WTF are you talking about. I am VERY well versed on the State of Connecticut (USA). What do you THINK you know about black men in Connecticut?
@Swarthmore mom – I agree Wayne Madsen has had his WRONG moments. Like when he started the BIRTHERS on their ignorant rampage to “prove” Mr. Obama was born in Kenya. He has recanted that now.
Also how can you be a ANTI-SEMITE against a people who have no noticeable DNA traces to the Semitic people per Dr. Spencer Wells Harvard Genograpics Project and a leading outspoken Israeli Rabbi? The people you refer to are the ASKHANAZI who are arguably decedents of Noah’s sons Japeth NOT Shem (aka Semite). Now when Wayne points out some shenanigans by AIPAC, the Likud Party, Bebe Netanyaho, the Mossad, etc. somehow that is anti-Semitic? Pointing out the truth behind events is not a vilification of an entire ethnic group. It’s only politics.
No Wayne is not always right. He is not right about Obama being a hidden homosexual. Anything he says about Obama is usually just guess work and mere speculation. He even thinks Obama and his mom worked for CIA back in the day.
I think his angst is because the White House snubbed him and wont recognize him as a legitimate journalist like his mentor the late Jack Anderson. However, most of the stuff he has to say about OTHER things seems to be right on the money due to independent verification of his facts. He has said things that I personally knew where true and I was astounded he had that much insight. He still has whistle-blower friends in military industrial complex, NSA, ONI, US Navy, and CIA.
There is an orchestrated campaign to smear Wayne on the Internet. Why? Because he is getting too close to the truth and it hurts the guilty. Look what happened to Philip Marshal only 4 months ago. Murder-suicide? Come on!
@Blouise – OK “Syria”… I’ll stick that into my Gary Seven (i.e. Star Trek) computer and see what pops out: “Computer! Factor is SYRIA into the scenario… WORKING…” No seriously I’ll see what I can find.
I’ve been just “spit-balling” here and seeing what sticks. With all of the great minds here I’m sure we can come up with something plausible. I mean we pretty much solved the Trayvon case right? By adding a third-party assailant? We need some DoD (NRO) help with that one. I’m sure Eric Holder could request the imaging for that day and time (I digress)…
OK Mr. Ball… you want torture? Let’s do the right thing and send in ST-6 & CIA and rendition the leader of the “Caucasus Emirate” namely Mr. Doku Umarov (a/k/a Dokka Abu Usman) to Szczytn. He is undoubtedly responsible for Boston Marathon Attack.
Easier said then done though:
Doku Umarov is the most wanted man in Russia. The US has offered $5m for information leading to his capture. Since 10 March 2011, Umarov has also been on the UN Security Council al-Qaida and Taliban Sanctions Committee list of individuals associated with al-Qaida.
Alexei Filatov, retired KGB officer and Vice-President of Russia’s elite Alpha Group Veterans’ Association assumes that the Tsarnaevs may have been brainwashed by Umarov. (Source: Russia Beyond The Headlines)
Vladimir Evseev, Director of Center for Social and Political Studies, said “…some Russian passport holders have joined the Syrian rebels. These are people without a true homeland. They earn money by killing people, and cannot change their occupation…” (Source: Russia Beyond The Headlines)
SWM, Wow! Never heard of this guy. But, Rahm was into ballet in his youth.
What about all the unnecessary ure that is being donto black men byt Connecticut Justice… Where is the stories on that???
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“The conspiratorially inclined blogger Wayne Madsen released a special report in May 2010 that was picked up by the tabloid The Globe. It tied a host of scurrilous stories into a grand gay conspiracy that not only recapitulated Sinclair’s outrageous accusations but tied Rahm Emanuel (like Obama, Madsen claimed, a lifetime member of a gay Chicago bathhouse), disgraced ex-governor Rod Blagojevich, the imprisoned real estate developer Tony Rezko, and U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald into the story as well. Madsen goes on to claim that Obama’s male paramours have included not just Reggie Love but former U.S. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist of Tennessee, former U.S. Rep. Artur Davis of Alabama, and Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick. ” The Southern Poverty Center. Wayne Madsen is a well known anti-semite conspiracy theorist. Would not believe a word he says, Blouise
why not just stand him next to a pressure cooker bomb and see if he starts talking.
All of you doom and gloomers who think prison rape is a common thing any more has watched too many HBO “Oz” re-runs or think Hollywood is a good indicator of reality. If Mr. Tsarnaev goes to jail he will be probably sent to a SuperMax under solitary confinement much the way FBI’s traitor-spy Robert Philip Hanssen is doing right now at ADX Florence CO.
In a scenario like that all activities are monitored 24 hours a day by CCTV. No visitors allowed. Not even fellow inmates. Most state and federal DoC Officers are now held to a higher standard and are appraised periodically on how they interact with inmates and mitigate trouble like prison rape. Homosexuality in prison is not that common even though it still happens in private areas where trustees can meet. But hard core inmates are monitored much more closely than before.
The warden is responsible for identifying any corruption of his/her officers like getting pay-offs from high-value-inmates. So stop with the prison rape scenario. It probably won’t happen to Mr. Tsarnaev. However they may try some of that psychological torture stuff when they get him to the Poland black site like they did at Abu Gharab and Gitmo. I think they called it a “mayonnaise sandwich” (ugh)? (trust me you don’t wanna’ know…).
A state senator calling for the torture of an accused U.S. citizen is unusually foolish.
The allegations of conspiracy against the 19 year old are not unusual in the federal courts, and certainly not unusual in this factual scenario:
(On The Origin of “Conspiracy Theory”). Everything gotta start somewhere pilgrim.
The conspiracy, the attempt to explode a WMD, and the actual explosions are all separate offenses or counts under the statute at hand.
sonofthunderboanerges,
As to the Chechens role … the U.S. and Russia …you might want to look at Syria for some answers on that question.
I believe you are correct in sensing something strange and like you, I have no real idea what it is … I have suspicions but no facts
@Mike Spindell – I know huh? It’s like a repeat of 9/11 with a twist. Remember when 9/12 rolled up and all CONUS (i.e. Continental USA) air space was shuttered? Somehow a particular Saudi family was allowed flight outbound home DESPITE the FBI’s request to interrogate them. That speaks to the POTUS’ (President of the USA) power to override whatever he wants be it the DoJ or even the Constitution.
Another man I look up to besides my friend Wayne Madsen (who some find to be a conspiracy theorist nut) is Richard Alan Clarke. He has a lot to say about what really happened in 9/11 as he was in the middle of the conspiracy being manipulated by the scum bags who today still think they’ve gotten away with it.
I’m sure Richard has a lot to say about the Boston Marathon Bombing and what’s really going on that the rest of us don’t seem to see. I’m presently data mining anything he has said lately about it. Wayne has a LOT to say on his website and he is vilifying the POTUS as being conspiratorial on this mess. He has even implicated DCI (Director CIA) Brennan and crew. I like Wayne but I can’t see Mr. Obama playing a black hat role here. Brennan and his B. Of Buchenwald (I wont name here here) YES I do.
Why? Because Brennan was in charge of cozying up to the Saudi family back in the day while he was station chief there. He is the one who introduced killer drones to the SW Asian theater of war. He has now brought them on CONUS with one almost near miss collision at JFK back in March. So yes I see him trying to get Dzhokhar sent to Poland (not Cuba) for some rougher treatment with the Russians assisting (i.e. FSB ghouls). IMO they all want to know how and why Doku Umarov needed to have the Tsarnaevs kill and maim some Boston Marathoners.
It’s very complicated and there are no easy answers here. I’m not trying to say I know what’s really going on as I am confused by all of the new players. All I know is that Mr. Obama, Eric Holder, and Mr. Brennan are all probably NOT going to play by the rules of Hoyle here. Mr. Obama told Katy Couric in an interview when he was running for his first term that he would lie to the American public “if he had to”. So somebody do the math and figure out WTH is going on here.
Why are the Chechens trying to hurt US to get at Russia? Are there OTHER players here we don’t see in the background from some so-called friendly nation like in 9/11?
I dunno…
SOTB,
I don’t have a clue where this is going, except for my gut that something is not quite right. It’s too early to posit any real conspiracy theories since we still need more details to come out to determine the shape of what is happening. I think it is still up in the air why it was done, or what point was supposedly being made. As for Wayne Madsen. I don’t respect him because I think he goes off half-cocked too often by trying to scoop the field. As for the Ashkenazim I think he and the Harvard guy are wrong. Other genetic studies have shown that genetically the Askenazim are about 75% Middle Eastern origin. I wouldn’t call Madsen anti-Jewish though, but I think his politics regarding Israel influence his opinions.
pete, I have another word for being against the death penalty, “Illinois.” The corrupt guv of that state even saw he needed to pardon all death row inmates, due mostly to the lazy, corrupt Chicago Police. Their philosophy was, “Tune up the suspect until they confess.” Illinois is arguably worse than Texas in this regard. But @ least they made it right for some.
Yeah, the Kennedys needed caretakers. Why does not this generation get some balls and go take care of Mitt. Guys like this put the C back in RepubliCon.