New York State Senator Greg Ball (R) took little time after the Boston bombing to call for the torture of 19-year-old Dzokhar Tsarnaev. Ball went to Twitter to call for the teenager to be tortured in the name of all of the values we hold dear as Americans.
Ball sent out a tweet stating “So, scum bag #2 in custody. Who wouldn’t use torture on this punk to save more lives?” It is the new normal in America. Ball feels entirely comfortable in speaking of torture in the most casual terms. It also shows how torture is always the answer since you cannot say for sure that there are not more bombs after an attack.
Later, Ball dismissed notions that torture (which is a federal crime and a violation of international law) is wrong: “If people find that offensive, they’re going to have to check their own conscience,” he reportedly said.
Later his office issued a statement:
“Terrorists play by a different set of rules by manipulating the greatest strengths of our open society against us. One of the questions to be asked is this: is “torture” ever justified in the war against terror, if it can save lives? I am not shy in joining those who say yes, and I believe we must give those tasked with protecting us every constitutional and effective tool to do so.”
“Every constitutional and effective tool” for Ball includes a tool long defined as a war crime. I have previously written about the corruption of American values on torture.
The willingness of politicians like Ball to embrace torture is a product not simply of the Bush Administration’s legitimation of torture but the Obama Administration’s refusal to prosecute anyone for torture. As I have written before (here and here), the Obama Administration has destroyed some of the core Nuremberg principles, particularly in its revisal of the “superior orders defense” to excuse U.S. officials. The failure to prosecute has allowed those who ordered the torture program to continue to speak out in favor of torture. It has destroyed any credibility of the United States in demanding prosecutions in other countries and given support for politicians like Ball to rally supporters behind a banner of torture.
Ball’s bio states that he “grew up on the family estate of Stephen and Jean Kennedy-Smith, sister of President John F. Kennedy, where his parents were both caretakers. He is the Chairman of the Senate Committee on Veterans, Homeland Security, and Military Affairs.” He is a graduate of United States Air Force Academy (USAFA) and is currently completing his Thesis for his Master’s of Arts in Liberal Studies with a concentration in International Affairs from Georgetown University.
Source: Raw Story
Sonofthunder,
Neither, but I worked with a survivor.
No, Dredd,
Conspiracy is a separate charge — probably in this case under 18 U.S.C. 371, which is not cited in the complaint.
The affidavit is not the complaint. In fact the complaint says: “This criminal complaint is based on these facts: See Attached Affidavit of Special Agent Daniel R. Genck”. The affidavit provides facts to support the complaint — it is not define the scope of the complaint.
In any case, you read the complaint and the magistrate judge read the complaint. I think the magistrate judge has a little better grasp of these things.
Ultimately, there will be an indictment or an information, but for now there is no conspiracy charge.
He’s a weasel, Blouise. “The Americans” is pulling off a difficult task and not dissimilar to “Dexter”. They’re making you root for ostensibly the bad guys.
Gene,
Lordy… I despise Agent Beeman …
Blouise,
Yeah, they got me hooked by the 3rd episode too. 😀
sonofthunder, The no fly list and the terror watch list are different lists. If you think you are on the no fly list, show up at the airport and try to fly somewhere.
sonofthunderboanerges,
Oh yeah, The Americans on FX is one of my favorites. I watched the first episode, yawned but figured I give it a chance. By the 3rd episode I was hooked. Looking forward to tonight @ 10pm.
rafflaw – April 24, 2013 at 4:26 pm
Swarthmore,
I want to echo Blouise’s response to your comment that you can be on the terror watch list and prevented from flying, but you are still able to buy a gun. That is a good summation of the state of this country.
My real first & last name is so darned common I know I’m on there. Is there any way to make them prove it’s you? Like DOB, SSN, or something?
Depends on if you are the kid of a Holocaust survivor or a Neo-Nazi. Which is it? 🙂
You must understand that the Chechans are under CONSTANT surveillance by the FSB (formerly KGB). They are #1 enemy of the Russian state. That surveillance does NOT stop in Europe or Asia. It extends to USA too. If your familiar with the new TV show “The Americans (2013 TV series)” you begin to see how far the KGB has infiltrated USA. There is no indication it ever stopped after “Perestroika” and “Glasnost”.
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Yes that overall complex is where Fort Mott resides I believe. We used that Fort up until Spanish-American war and maybe even WW1. You have to check it out if your ever in Salem County NJ (lots of Americana there). I’m sure Bruce Willis used to play there after school. It’s a really imposing place. They also executed prisoners there. It is next to the Delaware River looking toward Philadelphia. Yes it is near Pea Patch Island, just north of the nuclear power plant Bruce worked at as security guard (playing his harmonica over PA system! The NRC just loved Bruce!).
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Yes I used to live in Philly. I used to be the resident spook/haunt at the Franklin Institute. I had full FREE access due to my mom as she worked there. Ben was quite an interesting dude. You’d be amazed at what he invented and not too much in the spotlight. Recently I’m getting blown away by what Leonardo DaVinci invented and not spoke of too much. Did you know he developed a rudimentary wooden sword fighting robot of sorts? It had a rudimentary “voice” too via a bellow (i.e. grunts). Also designed a adjustable mortar cannon and a rudimentary machine-gun!
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Mike S. and son of thunder,
I grew up in Skokie…does that count? 🙂
Yup that’s why I mentioned the SVENGALI EFFECT and Patty Hearst. She was a little rich white girl who was turned to low-life bank robber and machine guns by her black captor Donald DeFreeze, leader of the terrorist group the SLA (Symbionese Liberation Army).
Instead of Svengali Effect I should have said the Stockholm syndrome, or capture–bonding. Psychiatrist Frank Ochberg helped define the term.
@Mike Spindell
…I am Jewish, I am a proud Zionist, yet I have publicly in this space abhorred AIPAC, Likud and Netanyahu for years. …
I’m glad you said this. I too am about 1/32 Ashkenazim but was born in the fifties in NJ. I am actually a “mutt”. I too hold these same feelings. However, I must add the INSTITUTE as well (i.e. ha-Mossad). I never knew the right word to sum up mine and Wayne’s feelings so I chose the phrase Anti-Zionist.
I am against,extreme RIGHT-WING fundamentalist Zionism in Israel. I do not share the feelings of POTUS FDR & Truman in 1948 re: Balfour Declaration as it totally ignores the indigenous population ALREADY there for centuries beforehand. The only reason why it was done was for the Jewish contribution to the Brits in WW1 against the Turks. Not because they were actually SEMITES and had some sort of genetic (or Biblical) right to the land.
I do not like what’s happening in the Gaza Strip today. I also think there is MAJOR hypocrisy regarding SW Asian nuclear proliferation in light of the DImona installation in the Negeb. I am appalled at the apathy some (not all) Israelis display over the 1967 incident with our US Navy spy-ship USS Liberty. To this day some are STILL covering up what really happened and why. I blame Sharon (aka Arik) for this.
Yes I am glad you put these *stakes in the ground* here. I was trying to tread lightly around you as I knew of your Jewish background. I did not want to offend or get you started on a heated argument. You see I really like you. I think you are uber-cool guy!
Swarthmore,
I want to echo Blouise’s response to your comment that you can be on the terror watch list and prevented from flying, but you are still able to buy a gun. That is a good summation of the state of this country.
sonofthunderboanerges,
Are you referring to the “The Fort Delaware Death Pen” on Pea Patch Island? Yesterday, after reading your posts, I looked up Finns Point Cemetery which is adjacent to Motts and read that cemetery was built in 1863 for Confederate prisoners of war who died while in captivity at Fort Delaware.
Some really gruesome practices went on there.
Gene H. – April 24, 2013 at 1:05 am
Mike,
…[clip]… This could be just the weapon used to kill the 4th Amendment and gut what is left of our already degraded privacy protections. “We are all enemy combatants” – unless you’re one of the “elites” is the entry point to martial law, officially declared or not.
I agree Gene. Google: CISPA That privacy abomination was recently approved by HR and now awaiting Senate approval. Mr.Obama says he will veto it if they approve it. I believe it’s PATRIOT ACT on steroids.
Under CISPA Jonathan Turley would have to supply our ISP’s and our IP address to whatever spooky ask for it SANS WARRANT! Then the same would apply to our ISP company getting our postal address and cc #. AT&T would do it anyway as they are so embed (or is it in-bed) with them. I dumped them recently. They totally suck as a phone and ISP company.
sonofthunderboanerges,
You really do know your Franklin! Have you ever toured Philadelphia? One used to be able to arrange private tours through the Park Service. Those people were a font of information as most of them are early American history scholars. The reason for the private tours was due to the fragility of the sites … one was thus part of a small group watched carefully by the Park Service.
I spent 2 hours in the Todd House asking questions and learning all sorts of things about Dolly Payne Todd Madison. “On the corner of 4th and Walnut Streets stands the Todd House, home of Dolley Madison. It was built in 1775 and occupied from 1791 to 1793 by John Todd, Jr., and his wife, Dolley Payne. After Todd’s death in the yellow fever epidemic of 1793, she married James Madison, a young Virginia politician who was to become our fourth President.”
Franklin’s house doesn’t exist anymore but if you take one of the walking tours, again by appointment only and group numbers kept very low, you can stop at the spot where it used to be and engage your Park Service guide … pick their brains and get all sorts of “little known facts”.
Just be very, very careful about traffic … Philadelphian drivers stop for no one!!
Bron – April 23, 2013 at 8:18 pm
our old friends the Saudis may be at it again:
http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/041813-652517-boston-bombing-timeline-suggests-obama-saudi-coverup.htm
April 15: Saudi college student Abdulrahman Ali Alharbi is seen near the Boston marathon finish line with two other Saudis. He’s tackled after fleeing the scene of one of the bombings. Authorities question him.
April 15: FBI agents search Alharbi’s apartment, leave with bags of evidence. He’s described as a “person of interest” in attacks.
April 16: Secretary of State John Kerry secretly meets with the Saudi foreign minister, locking out reporters who initially were told the meeting would be open.
April 16: Saudi ambassador phones several papers and insists neither Alharbi nor any Saudi nationals are involved in the bombings. Saudi officials visit the well-connected Alharbi at a Boston hospital.
April 17: Officials clear Alharbi, who’s reportedly related to al-Qaida Gitmo detainees, as a person of interest.
Yes Bron that is very interesting. Little known fact (I don’t know if this is still true today. Maybe somebody can verify.) The Saudi Embassy in Washington DC in 2004 was protected by the White House Police Force. WTF??? That force is under the USSS for executive protection only.
How did that happen?
Blouise – April 23, 2013 at 4:13 pm
sonofthunderboanerges,
Never heard of that particular torture prison … I’ll look into it
Yes look up Fort Mott State Park in Pennsville NJ. There were others in the area but this one was notorious during US Civil War. They say the enemy combatant cemetery was full and they had to seek other accommodations for the executed tortured Rebels
As to the Foundings and good ol’ Ben’s plots … it doesn’t hurt to remember that the English… I thought you were going to mention the first use of “germ warfare” by the British on native Americans with small pox infected blankets…
COINCIDENCE: Ben Franklin was born on Milk Street Boston Massachusetts. Just 3 miles north of the Boston Marathon.
SwM,
Maybe the FBI and DHS did fumble the ball after the Russians warned them about #1. What I want to know is how the Russians knew about him in the first place … and we didn’t. If I were an enterprising journalist, I’d be very curious about that one.