New York State Senator Greg Ball (R) took little time after the Boston bombing to call for the torture of 19-year-old Dzokhar Tsarnaev. Ball went to Twitter to call for the teenager to be tortured in the name of all of the values we hold dear as Americans.
Ball sent out a tweet stating “So, scum bag #2 in custody. Who wouldn’t use torture on this punk to save more lives?” It is the new normal in America. Ball feels entirely comfortable in speaking of torture in the most casual terms. It also shows how torture is always the answer since you cannot say for sure that there are not more bombs after an attack.
Later, Ball dismissed notions that torture (which is a federal crime and a violation of international law) is wrong: “If people find that offensive, they’re going to have to check their own conscience,” he reportedly said.
Later his office issued a statement:
“Terrorists play by a different set of rules by manipulating the greatest strengths of our open society against us. One of the questions to be asked is this: is “torture” ever justified in the war against terror, if it can save lives? I am not shy in joining those who say yes, and I believe we must give those tasked with protecting us every constitutional and effective tool to do so.”
“Every constitutional and effective tool” for Ball includes a tool long defined as a war crime. I have previously written about the corruption of American values on torture.
The willingness of politicians like Ball to embrace torture is a product not simply of the Bush Administration’s legitimation of torture but the Obama Administration’s refusal to prosecute anyone for torture. As I have written before (here and here), the Obama Administration has destroyed some of the core Nuremberg principles, particularly in its revisal of the “superior orders defense” to excuse U.S. officials. The failure to prosecute has allowed those who ordered the torture program to continue to speak out in favor of torture. It has destroyed any credibility of the United States in demanding prosecutions in other countries and given support for politicians like Ball to rally supporters behind a banner of torture.
Ball’s bio states that he “grew up on the family estate of Stephen and Jean Kennedy-Smith, sister of President John F. Kennedy, where his parents were both caretakers. He is the Chairman of the Senate Committee on Veterans, Homeland Security, and Military Affairs.” He is a graduate of United States Air Force Academy (USAFA) and is currently completing his Thesis for his Master’s of Arts in Liberal Studies with a concentration in International Affairs from Georgetown University.
Source: Raw Story
SwM,
Bang, bang!
http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/04/24/17897510-guns-and-the-terrorist-watch-list?lite Blouise, Did you know that if your are on the terrorist watch list that you can’t fly but you can buy a gun?
boston dot com is the Boston Globe’s on-line site
sonofthunderboanerges,
Check out this link for a more up to date report on the Russian connection and the FBI:
http://www.boston.com/politicalintelligence/2013/04/23/russia-contacted-fbi-multiple-times-concerns-about-alleged-boston-marathon-bomber/NXGbfiW7hyYeRpdryaK3mN/story.html
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/04/23/tamerlan-tsarnaev-s-best-friend-brendan-mess-an-unsolved-killing.html Here’s the story, sonofthunder.
nick spinelli – April 23, 2013 at 3:34 pm
…[clip]… what interests me most is the prior contact by the FBI. Was this kid a CI [confidential informant] that got out of control? The three former buddies of the dead shitbird, who got their throat slit, is also intriguing….
Care to elaborate and share Internet citations Nick? This is news to me. FBI pre-contact with who? And what was the nature of the article that quotes this? Who got their throats cut? If so that adds a bit more political intrigue to the story. Please share more details…
Mike Spindell April 23, 2013 at 2:19 pm
So what are we to make of this?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/22/boston-suspect-denies-terrorist-groups_n_3135523.html
As I posted earlier an ex-KGB agent said he felt BOTH boys were brainwashed. He should know as he probably did a lot of that himself. So of course the younger one (still alive) will say what his contingency programming told him to say. I believe even the running over of his brother with the carjacked SUV was conditioned programming too. It was to clear up loose ends.
How could Umarov brainwash him if only the older brother went to Chechnya last year? Ever heard the expression “Go downtown and get a [bleep] and bring back one for me?” (snicker) That type of psychological education is transferable. Or maybe Umarov has agents here in USA. There is a large population of Chechans and Russians (et al) in New England area.
“That type of psychological education is transferable.”
SOTB,
A possible explanation could also be idolization of his big brother and an inordinate loyalty to him. Who knows?
PorkChop,
For your further edification.
The complaint specifically says:
(Read Criminal Complaint).
@Mike Spindell
“Mike Spindell April 23, 2013 at 2:08 pm
SOTB,
…[clip]…
As for Wayne Madsen. I don’t respect him because I think he goes off half-cocked too often by trying to scoop the field.”
You get no argument from me on that. I feel that he is a bit too capitalistic as he will truck with Alex Jones ONLY because of the money. He also enjoys working with Russia Today which I guess is OK but it is purely money driven. I do not like his diatribes against Mr. Obama. That bit of fiction is all idle speculation and he shouldn’t keep preaching it as gospel.
The other stuff appears to be bona-fide. So we can’t just “throw out the baby with the bath water”. IMO he is the king of international IC whistleblowers who flock to him. (i.e. IC = Intelligence Community).
“As for the Ashkenazim I think he and the Harvard guy are wrong. Other genetic studies have shown that genetically the Askenazim are about 75% Middle Eastern origin. I wouldn’t call Madsen anti-Jewish though, but I think his politics regarding Israel influence his opinions.”
No Wayne is not at all anti-Jewish nor anti-Israel… he is anti-Zionist. The three words are not synonymous. There are many Israelis who agree with Wayne on many points.
Middle Eastern is not an ethnic group nor a racial group. Please note this from a highly respected Rabbi who resides in Hattiesburg MS (USA):
“… Though many Jews are NOT of Semitic origin, we are the religious, spiritual, and national [but NOT genetic] descendants of those who first formed the early foundations of Judaism who were Semites” – Rabbi Cyril A. Stanway in Thursday, November 8, 1990
So saying Wayne is a ANTI-SEMITE is an misnomer. SWM should rephrase that as a raging ANTI-ZIONIST and then she would be correct.
“Please note this from a highly respected Rabbi who resides in Hattiesburg MS (USA):
“… Though many Jews are NOT of Semitic origin, we are the religious, spiritual, and national [but NOT genetic] descendants of those who first formed the early foundations of Judaism who were Semites” – Rabbi Cyril A. Stanway in Thursday, November 8, 1990”
SOTB,
The Rabbi represents a view that is not held by the large majority of Rabbi’s. Also you might know that on this blog, for years I have made a distinction between those that are anti-Jewish and those who are anti-Israel. Notice though I don’t use the term Zionist. That term itself is quite imprecise. I am Jewish, I am a proud Zionist, yet I have publicly in this space abhorred AIPAC, Likud and Netanyahu for years. As a Jew who was born in the early Forties I am aware of the anti-Jewish feeling that existed even in this country. I can see it coming back to this country in a heartbeat. Israel represents a refuge for Jews in case the proverbial sh*t his the fan. Many people here on the Left view the entire issue from their particular political perspective, I understand that, but there is another side to it and there is another story that has been obscured by almost one half a century of Saudi backed propaganda. I’m not into arguing this point because I have found that it is futile. The main reason I came to this blog is because I was literally laughed out of Democrats.com for my Israel views and accused of being a right wing propagandist. The Left, once it has an idea, can be every bit as insufferable as the Right. I write this in explanation to you because I respect you, not to debate the issue with you.
PorkChop,
For your further edification.
I give you text from an actual Motion To Dismiss A Federal Criminal Complaint for failure to comply with F.R.C.P 3 I cited in my comment above:
(Motion To Dismiss, PDF). It is an actual motion from a federal criminal case.
Just one quote from the Supreme Court that reversed the conviction based on a criminal complaint:
Giordenello v. United States., 357 U.S. 480 (1958).
Your mistaken belief that the one page with “COMPLAINT” under the caption constitutes the complaint is misinformed.
Porkchop 1, April 23, 2013 at 3:18 pm
Dredd:
Actually, no, again.
The affidavit differs from the complaint. The complaint is the charging document. The complaint doesn’t charge a conspiracy. The complaint charges (1) use of a weapon of mass destruction and (2) malicious destruction of property resulting in death. Maybe someone was thinking of a conspiracy charge, which would explain its presence in the affidavit, but it wasn’t put in the complaint.
===============================
Actually, YES again and again.
What you call “the complaint” in the current case is only the first page alone of many pages that actually comprise a valid federal “criminal complaint” as required by the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure:
(DOJ). Under the federal rules “the complaint” is the sum of the facts related to the statute(s) that describe a federal crime.
Just quoting the statute on the first page saying “John Doe violated statute x”, what you mistakenly called “the complaint” is insufficient and not “the complaint” under the federal rules.
The affidavit attached is an essential segment and part of “the complaint.”
It is not like a complaint in a civil case that needs only bare allegations not given under oath or affirmation.
Furthermore, unless there is a follow TRUE BILL by a grand jury, even the properly filed criminal complaint isn’t sufficient to sustain charges in “the complaint” (ibid, Rule 7).
Seamus,
Psychopaths come to mind….. But it’s for our own good…. Right…
“[M]anipulating the greatest strengths of our open society against us.” This can be said for about 99% of all criminals. Once this justification becomes the norm for in terrorist cases (which it has since the “liberal” Democratic administration now in place has adopted the rational of Mssrs. Bybee and Yoo), it’s only a matter of time before it’s used to justify torture in all criminal cases.
You know mike S… We have no idea of what was really said…. We don’t know if The Government got them to go along with some plan…. I think self exculpatory statements are different from that we acted alone…. I think folks and including you are putting the cart before the mule on this one…. But on occasion I know which way the wind blows…
Porkchop:
I hope you are right. I went to school with many people from different countries in the middle east and I liked the majority of them. In the last 30 years something has happened. I used to have a beer with these guys, BS and talk politics and religion. Normal college kid stuff; I never got a whiff of them wanting to do anything but improve their financial status, get married and have children.
These were just normal middle class guys. I would really like to know how we went from that to this in 30 years. I understand the last 10 but not the 20 years prior to 9/11.
Is it really all about Israel, Iraq and Afghanistan?
Mike,
“Also in the picture though is that the Intelligence Community might want to let it be the “lone terrorists, or perhaps find a new target to make war on.”
This is my concern as well. This could be just the weapon used to kill the 4th Amendment and gut what is left of our already degraded privacy protections. “We are all enemy combatants” – unless you’re one of the “elites” is the entry point to martial law, officially declared or not.
Bron:
Or maybe the guy had nothing to do with the bombing, and the Saudi ambassador did what embassies do — assist their nationals in foreign countries.
There is such a thing as being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Not every Saudi is a bad actor.
His fleeing the scene of one of the bombings is hardly suspicious — hundreds of others did the same thing. Now, calmly walking away — that is suspicious.
We don’t need to worry about a trial. I had inside edition on in the background (disclaimer I don’t listen to this awful show but hadn’t changed channel and was too busy to get to it). In the intro to a story they said This is ‘despicable” a facebook page called, I think, Tsarnaev is innocent.
It is rare we are hearing the word alleged or anything that is a qualifier. We don’t seem to need ‘no stinkin’ ‘ trial. Too much of the media, congress, and the executive via Jay Carney, as noted here or in another post, have named these guys as ‘terrorists’ and the definitive perpetrators. How in the world can they get any kind of a fair trial (which is kind of debatable anyway) when all the potential jury pool has been tainted?
our old friends the Saudis may be at it again:
http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/041813-652517-boston-bombing-timeline-suggests-obama-saudi-coverup.htm
April 15: Saudi college student Abdulrahman Ali Alharbi is seen near the Boston marathon finish line with two other Saudis. He’s tackled after fleeing the scene of one of the bombings. Authorities question him.
April 15: FBI agents search Alharbi’s apartment, leave with bags of evidence. He’s described as a “person of interest” in attacks.
April 16: Secretary of State John Kerry secretly meets with the Saudi foreign minister, locking out reporters who initially were told the meeting would be open.
April 16: Saudi ambassador phones several papers and insists neither Alharbi nor any Saudi nationals are involved in the bombings. Saudi officials visit the well-connected Alharbi at a Boston hospital.
April 17: Officials clear Alharbi, who’s reportedly related to al-Qaida Gitmo detainees, as a person of interest.
Turnabout is fair play. So if we find out that this Sen. Ball has possibly taken a bribe then it will be ok to torture him to find out the truth. He is a citizen, Punk Puss is a citizen. Equal rights.