We have previously discussed the continued prosecution of minors for engaging in sexual conduct under state laws. These laws have a sexist record of boys prosecuted for having sex with a minor where girls were treated as the victim, even when the sex was consensual and both were minors or close in age. There is a new case out of Indian River, Florida that is equally troubling. Kaitlyn Hunt, 18, is a senior in high school and is facing felony charges for engaging in a sexual relationship with another girl at her school. Despite an outcry against prosecuting Hunt for consensual sex, the prosecutor has refused to drop the charges of two counts of lewd and lascivious battery of a child 12 to 16 years of age. Assistant State Attorney Brian Workman has insisted that he will only agree to a plea deal where she would accept one felony conviction and a two-year sentence of home confinement. Such a plea would likely put Hunt on the sex offender registry for life.
The girls started dating when Kate turned 18 and the other girl was 14. When the other girl’s parents found out about the relationship, they called police. Police then tapped a telephone conversation in which Kate told the girl that she loved her.
Hunt’s mother believes the charges are the result of homophobia and intolerance for a lesbian relationship.
Hunt was previously selected as the “Student with Most School Spirit” and had a good record at Sebastian River High School. However, after the arrest, she was kicked off the school’s basketball team by her coach, who said that the school wanted to avoid “drama.” The school board then expelled her from the high school in her graduating year.
Consent is not a defense under the Florida law criminalizing sexual activity with a minor between the ages of 12 and 16. Bruce Colton, state attorney for Florida’s 19th circuit, has insisted that the case will go to trial unless Hunt pleads guilty. The second-degree felony charges can result in a 15 year sentence with registration as a sex offender. We have previously seen the disabling impact of such registration on young people convicted for statutory rape in consensual relations with other students.
As discussed earlier, some states like Ohio have struck down parts of their statutory rape laws.
The concern is that there are obviously many cases involving minors as young as 14 engaging in sexual relationships. Those cases are rarely prosecuted. Moreover, regardless of whether this is a homosexual or heterosexual relationship, it involved consent between two high school students. None of this condones what Hunt did. This was a 14 year old child and, regardless of Hunt’s feelings, it was clearly improper and presumptively harmful to have a sexual relationship with a 14 year old. The question is whether this could not have been handled with a restraining order preventing further contact as opposed to treating this as a criminal matter.
What do you think?
Randolph Erb, there is a difference, but there also is not. 18 is not truly the age of majority. You cannot gamble at a casino, buy alcohol, or rent a car without a tacked on fee when you are 18. And at 18, a lot of people are still in high school – where they are around people 14-17, typically. The problem is that we try to treat them like adults, but most of them are still in positions where they are actually kids.
This is not, in my view, a gay rights issue. This is yet another example of a prosecution that should not happen. Prosecutors, as professionals and officers of the court, should be exercising judgement in these cases. “Statutory Rape” laws were intended, and should only be used, in predatory situations where adults are praying on children.
Engaging in prosecutions in situations like this, where teens, very close in age, are clearly in a consensual relationship is a travesty. My wife is 7 years younger than me, there is only 4 years difference between these two girls.
Yet again, another example of why many of us have zero faith in our government, at any level. I no longer give any “higher level” importance to the law. It is a joke, exactly the same as anything else the government does. There is no connection between the law and any higher sense of “justice” or “right and wrong”. Its just another toy for the corrupt and incompetent – as EVERY SINGLE PERSON working for a government in our country is one or the other.
This needs to be dismissed unless you are willing to charge every 18 yr. old dating minor!!! This is what is going on in all high school today!!! Kids are experimenting with sex younger and younger.. 18 is still a KID .. Especially if they are still in High School. This just makes FloriDA look bad.. We are laughed at by other states and around the world for this type of case.. Don’t waste taxpayers money on this!!!!
Some folks here have never met a real sexual predator, apparently.
This is a REAL sexual predator. I interviewed him for more than four and a half hours a few days before he was executed. You know what his main complaint was? He complained that because he was on suicide watch, he could not masturbate as much as he wanted to, which he did several times every day.
http://murderpedia.org/male.G/g1/gray-jimmy-lee.htm
A seventeen year old that happens to have an 18th birthday is still a teenager, not a grown woman. See my comment on brain development above.
There should be an outcry, whether this is a homosexual or heterosexual relationship.
I agree that the is a difference between a 15 y/o and an 18 y/o, significant enough to cause concern. There is a greater likelihood of coercion in such a relationship.
I also agree that the motives of the alleged victim’s parents and the prosecutor are suspect, and seem to be motivated as much from homophobia as concern for any harm that may have befallen the younger girl.
That said, I am concerned that the state is choosing to prosecute this case, based on the facts that we’ve been given. Spending valuable and scarce resources on charging and criminalizing this situation seems to have no real benefit for society, and certainly not for the alleged victim (and her parents) or the alleged sexual predator.
Forbid the 18 y/o from having contact with the 15 y/o through a restraining order. Perhaps court-ordered counseling for both parties. But a felony conviction? Seriously?
Another good reason to avoid Florida like the plague.
The FACT is that we are dealing with the LAW not psychology. If you think the law is wrong, then the place to deal with that is the legislature and prosecutors have to go by the LAW. The fact is this woman who is legally an adult spit in the face of the parents and now thinks it is an injustice. I am sorry, but the law does not work that way and cannot work that way. You might feel it is an injustice,but that is irrelevant.
As for getting a restraining order, I was not aware one could or even needs to get a restraining order against a person committing a CRIME. The fact is that this adult woman was told to not have a relationship with this girl. She chose to ignore not only the parents, but the law. What is missing here is any concern for the rights of the parents. Will the law support the rights of the parents to control their children and who they may associate with? This is not the case of an adult male having sex with a girl who lies about her age. This woman knew the age of this girl and knew she was breaking the law. So why should she get a pass on breaking the law, and spitting in the face of the girls family? Had she not known the age of the girl, and the girl admitting that she lied about her age, THEN I would see some mitigation here.
All of the titles on this are false and misleading. The adult woman was NOT charged for a lesbian relationship at all. She was charged as an ADULT which she IS LEGALLY, for having sexual relations with an UNDERAGE CHILD! The law to my knowledge makes No distinction as to the sex or nature of the sexual acts. So thus any other title is simply a LIE. it is an adult student, having sex with an underage child who is at the very lowest end of the age limits. What I have read of the FL laws, they do have the Romeo/Juliet clause, so she has the option of taking a less severe charge which is not an oppressive law, unless one wishes to get rid of age of consent laws entirely and let sexual predators loose.
The FACT is that this woman is legally and FACTUALLY a sexual predator and chose to knowingly and against the wishes of the minors family to break the law. So she did the crime, she has to pay the piper. The plea deal seems fair to me.
It is not a matter of gender of the actors but their age according to the statutes. Yet, it certainly might be with regard to how it is prosecuted.
Realistically what is the prosecutor to do though? The legislature has enacted the laws dictating ages of consent. Should a prosecutor just ignore the law and then set some new arbutrary age of consent?
If the prosecutor wanted to amend the charge to something such as Criminal Attempt to knock it down to a misdemeanor that is their discretion.
Maybe a graduated system like WA has might be of benefit. In that there is a buffer where one actor must be within a certain age range to not be guilty of the crime. Yet, if the younger actor is say 15 and the other 30, the 30 year old would be guilty but not someone 36 months older. But, again, this is the purview of the legislature.
nick,
You pick a fight and expect it to be fair? That’s adorable!
Learn to stop insulting people, especially ones you know nothing about, and you won’t face the repercussions. I know it’s hard for you to learn that lesson, but your “wound” is entirely self-inflicted. I don’t fight fair and if you start in with me, I’ll finish the fight for certain. It’s my nature. I’m also likely do so in a way you are not going to like when you attack unprovoked and in an ad hominem mode. This isn’t court or a ring. I’m not limited to white hat strategy or tactics. You poke the bear, you will get bit. Free speech does not give you a right not to be offended. In case you haven’t noticed, when you act civilly, I treat you civilly. When you act like an ass, I treat you like an ass. Cause and effect. If you don’t like the effect, stop being a cause. That’s the lesson of the Ethic of Reciprocity that you fail to grasp: your responsibility in reaping what you sow.
Cost? There is no cost to me, nick. No one of import to me cares what you think of me. You’re the one with bruised ego and manufactured outrage which are the direct result of you biting off once again more than you can chew. You may think you’re an alpha, but there is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.
“Don’t start none, won’t be none” seems like a lesson simple enough for even you to understand.
Apparently not.
If you don’t like the cost, don’t make the purchase.
Or didn’t your parents teach you that?
Here is more on the story. Kate’s mom says her daughter was 17 when the two girls started dating.
Source: http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2013/05/florida-teen-fighting-criminal-charges-for-same-sex-relationship/
If this were a boy doing that to an underage girl, there would not be such an outcry. In fact, this plea deal is the same as would be given to a heterosexaul relationship too as the aritcle pointed out. What is good for one is good for the other. The plea deal would seem to be a reasonable offer and it is outrageous that some people want all charges dropped. As I said previously, when one turns 18 you KNOW the consequences. The age at which this started is of no legal consequence. The more relevant fact is what did the parents of the minor tell the adult girl. If they did or said nothing, then they have less room to complain. The articles say nothing in this regards and it is a significant ommission. That they left this part out leads me to think that they DID object rather strenuously and that the adult woman chose to knowingly spit in their faces. So she should NOT be surprised that she was arrested.
As for the criminal record, I have no sympathy at all since I too have a criminal record and was almost denied entry into Canada on a flight because of a 30+ year old misdemeanor DUI conviction in Texas. So I got to spend a fair amount of time with the immigration officers grilling me about my criminal past. They finally figured out that I posed no immediate threat to public safety and let me in. I wonder how Bush and Cheney get into Canada since they have DOUBLE the number of arrests for DUI than I have. Hell one more DUI and I can run for President on the GOP ticket if I were so corrupt.
Being raised by good parents and in an Italian ethic, family is revered. I have never, and will never, bring family into an argument. I realize more and more how blessed I am to be raised as I was. A bit more so these last 24 hours. And, that “win” word keeps appearing. At what cost?
OS, We agree substantively. However, you know “scorched earth” is decided by the trial judge, and that has wide parameters. I’ll say 5 Hail Mary’s as penance for failing to use “alleged.”
Mike,
The crux to which you point – that the law is not an accurate representation of human sexuality – seems to crop up every time a story appears here that involves minors but isn’t a clear cut case of pedophilia. The whole issue of statutory rape needs to revisited and modified to be more in comport with what the science tells us.
I always like to look upon the positive side. A circumstance like this provides an opportunity for people to empathize w/ the accused. Many people who would jump on a male/female suspect as just described by Mike S, labelling the suspect a predator, but have empathy for this suspect, may have their hearts softened a bit. Probably quixotic, but for an introspective person certainly quite possible.
The law makes a bright line between majority and minority and it has to be drawn at some age. At 18 males have to register to possibly DIE in combat in the military. All 18 year olds get the right to vote. Thus all kids who turn 18 KNOW the difference between that age and other ages. The old saying that ignorance of the law is no excuse holds true here. The age difference of three years is significant too. There is no legal or common sense difference between an old man and a girl of 14 having consensual sex than an 18 year old and a girl of 14 having the same thing.
Then we have the rights of the parents to control the actions of their children. Will the law back the parents up? So far most of the people here are against that. My understanding is that until a child becomes an adult, they MUST follow the rules and orders of their parents. I am rather certain the parents of the minor made it very clear to her that she was NOT to have contact with the predatory woman. Then we do not know if the parents of the minor told the adult woman to not have any contact with their daughter. I would be against any prosecution if the parents decided to throw a happy 18th birthday party for the woman at their house, and then had the cops waiting to put the cuffs on her. THAT would be legally indefensible it would seem to me since they would be encouraging the liason. Absent any evidence that the parents of the minor allowed or encouraged the relationship, I have no problem with the prosecution. When I was that age I knew full well my rights and liabilities and that once I hit 18 I would be charged as an adult and responsible for ALL of my actions if I broke the law.
As the proud father of daughters who are now successfully past the age of 30, I can honestly say that once my children were taught about sexuality by their mother, I never once gave thought to what they were doing or not doing sexually. They had the information and they understood the ramifications of their actions. Sexual discovery is one of the blessings of being human and parents too often forget what it was like to enter puberty.
The real basis of these charges are parents who cannot accept the range of their daughters sexuality, coupled with homophobia. When I was 18 I had a long term sexual relationship with a 16 year old girl. This was my first sexual relationship, whereas she was more experienced and certainly more emotionally mature. Under NYS law at the time I was guilty of statutory rape, yet this never came to the notice of authority. The reason was that my experience was fairly typical of my peers and dare I make the assumption fairly typical of teens universally. When we see theses cases of teen sex prosecuted it is usually at the instigation of outraged parents.
Yes pedophilia should be prosecuted, but out standards for doing so should rest on the coercion involved which is criminal, rather than the religious/moral issues of parents who disapprove of their child’s sexuality. The “public” notions of sexuality in this country are in deep contrast to “private” activity as proven by the amount of teen pregnancies that occur without any criminal charges being made. Ours is a “publicly” puritan society, that in reality acts just as humans have always acted sexually.
Otteray Scribe 1, May 22, 2013 at 7:53 am
“The relationship started well before Kate’s 18th birthday. She was seventeen when she started dating the younger girl.”
Not according to the police report: It lists her birthday as 8/14/94. It states that the accused stated that they started dating in November 2012, which would be three months after her 18th birthday, and first had sexual contact around Christmas 2012. The contact included mutual vaginal penetration with fingers[ admitted by defendant] and with a vibrator [alleged by the other girl].
http://www.scribd.com/doc/142642135/Kaitlyn-Hunt-Redacted-Affidavit-Redacted
This may or may not affect one’s view of the case, but those are the allegations in the police report.
nick,
I didn’t say anything about the parents meeting a burden of proof. I said their motives need to be examined. That can take place at trial. I am a believer in the “scorched earth” technique of cross examination in cases such as this.
Also, it is “alleged” victim at this point. And I am not convinced there is a true victim here unless it is Kate. This, IMHO, is a malicious prosecution. It has happened before, and no doubt will happen again.
nick,
You reap what you sow. If you want to insult others, you should expect them to insult you back. Not everyone follows an ethic that requires them to turn the other cheek. That you pick fights you can’t win is your problem, Cliff. Poke the bear, get bit.
Keep that in mind next time you want to trash talk, sport, but save the faux outrage.
No one believes it.
OS, I agree w/ your assessment. However, what is the burden of proof for the victim’s parents in your mind? And, bettykath did say she is not sure criminal charges are warranted.
Hopefully we can agree that incest is a crime. And, although vile comments about incest are protected speech, they have no place in this forum as what was done last night.