We have previously discussed the continued prosecution of minors for engaging in sexual conduct under state laws. These laws have a sexist record of boys prosecuted for having sex with a minor where girls were treated as the victim, even when the sex was consensual and both were minors or close in age. There is a new case out of Indian River, Florida that is equally troubling. Kaitlyn Hunt, 18, is a senior in high school and is facing felony charges for engaging in a sexual relationship with another girl at her school. Despite an outcry against prosecuting Hunt for consensual sex, the prosecutor has refused to drop the charges of two counts of lewd and lascivious battery of a child 12 to 16 years of age. Assistant State Attorney Brian Workman has insisted that he will only agree to a plea deal where she would accept one felony conviction and a two-year sentence of home confinement. Such a plea would likely put Hunt on the sex offender registry for life.
The girls started dating when Kate turned 18 and the other girl was 14. When the other girl’s parents found out about the relationship, they called police. Police then tapped a telephone conversation in which Kate told the girl that she loved her.
Hunt’s mother believes the charges are the result of homophobia and intolerance for a lesbian relationship.
Hunt was previously selected as the “Student with Most School Spirit” and had a good record at Sebastian River High School. However, after the arrest, she was kicked off the school’s basketball team by her coach, who said that the school wanted to avoid “drama.” The school board then expelled her from the high school in her graduating year.
Consent is not a defense under the Florida law criminalizing sexual activity with a minor between the ages of 12 and 16. Bruce Colton, state attorney for Florida’s 19th circuit, has insisted that the case will go to trial unless Hunt pleads guilty. The second-degree felony charges can result in a 15 year sentence with registration as a sex offender. We have previously seen the disabling impact of such registration on young people convicted for statutory rape in consensual relations with other students.
As discussed earlier, some states like Ohio have struck down parts of their statutory rape laws.
The concern is that there are obviously many cases involving minors as young as 14 engaging in sexual relationships. Those cases are rarely prosecuted. Moreover, regardless of whether this is a homosexual or heterosexual relationship, it involved consent between two high school students. None of this condones what Hunt did. This was a 14 year old child and, regardless of Hunt’s feelings, it was clearly improper and presumptively harmful to have a sexual relationship with a 14 year old. The question is whether this could not have been handled with a restraining order preventing further contact as opposed to treating this as a criminal matter.
What do you think?
AY,
De Nile ain’t just a river in Egypt.
There are Meds for delusional folks…. Or a good therapist David might be in order…
David, I just re-read you last comment. Yer funnee.
neildavis2002 1, May 23, 2013 at 11:54 am
@Sling Trebuchet “The law is an ass.” On the contrary, the law is reason, free from passion.
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You’re full of shi+. You better be careful if you have to go to court. Police and lawyers lie all the time.
You’re full of shi+. Their agenda is to win. That is their only agenda. Most of them are pathetic and fundamentally useless.
David,
It is not just sex. While some schools are worse than others, drugs are pervasive in schools as well. That includes both public and private schools.
As far as pulling kids out of school, as Joe Louis said when someone told him how fast on his feet Billy Conn was, “He can run but he can’t hide.”
David, you can run but you can’t hide.
OS –
I was relieved to check the CDC site and find you were completely wrong about junior high school. Survey of high school teenagers ages 15 – 19 in 2011 showed that only 6.2% had sex before age 13.
Only 33.7% of them were sexually active, and only 47% were no longer virgins. Checked the drug use too for high school up to age 19: 23% use marijuana in high school, 3% cocaine, 3.8% meth. These numbers are much more in line with my expectations than your assertion that junior high kids were regularly engaging in sex and drugs.
http://www.cdc.gov/HealthyYouth/sexualbehaviors/
randy.
Now you are being silly. Outlaw groups like NAMBLA have nothing to do with this case. You keep using hotbutton words like woman. Look at Kate’s picture. She looks like a pixie. Look, I have been working on sex offender cases for more than forty years. This is about vindictiveness and lack of common sense. She is a child on one day and a grown woman the next? Only in the eyes of the most rigid and concrete minded. Kate is still just a kid like the other girl.
You know better than to start throwing strawmen out, and using false analogies with me.
Also, this is not about you and when you were a kid. This is 2013. If you don’t think junior high school age kids have sex on a regular basis, you are leading a very sheltered life.
OS wrote: “If you don’t think junior high school age kids have sex on a regular basis, you are leading a very sheltered life.”
That is outrageous! Junior High? Not my girls. What planet are you on? You make me want to run over to the school and see what the heck they are doing over there. Maybe it is time for people to pull their kids out of the public school system. I sure am glad you are not a teacher at my school.
“That is outrageous! Junior High? Not my girls. What planet are you on? You make me want to run over to the school and see what the heck they are doing over there.”
DavidM,
Below you will see a list of Teenage pregnancy rates by State. The ones with the ten highest rates are also States that teach abstinence, rather than sex education. My take on that is that teens are going to engage sexually whether their parents like it or not.
http://www.livescience.com/27417-teen-pregnancy-rates-by-state.html
Mike, he is not talking about teenagers. He is talking about kids in middle school having sexual relations on a regular basis. I find that outrageous. You claim kids will do it no matter what their parents like, but that is not true with my children. I talk to them regularly about issues like this and the only sexually active children I have are married and well out of school.
David,
Per mu prior comment at 11:42 am. I am also a proud parent who raised to successful daughters and have grandchildren. I never worried about my children’s sex lives since I felt it was their own business. I was raised to believe that sex was a good thing, whether marital or otherwise and I don’t see pre-marital virginity as something to be aspired to.
The sheriff’s department has released the full affidavit of the charges against Kate. The affidavit contains lurid details as well as her personal contact information. Her parents are outraged, and people close to the case have alleged it is retaliation by the sheriff’s department and prosecutor because they went public.
http://www.examiner.com/article/kaitlyn-hunt-arrest-record-released-free-kate-family-disgusted-with-sheriff
In other news, I read that the younger girl’s parents have hired an attorney. Now how come the “victim” of a crime needs an attorney, especially a plaintiff’s attorney. Never mind. We should have seen that one coming.
It is NOT a strawman argument since NAMBLA is opposed to all age of consnet laws. If we have such laws, there must be some age limits, and absent your suggestion as to what the age limit is, or the fact that you object to application of this law, I think that you need to elaborate. If Kate were a male high school drop out who was 18 and did the same with a girl of 14 would you have the same reaction? So far all I have seen is a subjective cry that she is a pixie. THAT is irrelevant. Pixies can kill too. The law is not supposed to be based on how the defendent looks for crying out loud..
She is a child on one day and a grown woman the next?
As a matter of LAW, YES! One day she cannot vote, another day later she CAN. That is the whole point of the law and in fact, FL DOES have a Romeo and Juliet provision and another provision to mitigate such a case as well. I fail to see what else they can do. I would be interested in your efforts on behalf of boys of 18 who have been caught in similar cases. Will they deserve your consideration only if they look cute and innocent?
As for any outrage at the Sheriff releasing the arrest record, that is a PUBLIC document by the way. It is NOT illegal to release it. I find NO outrage at the lies being told by Kate and her parents. They LIED when they said she was 17 when this started. I should have known better because it was very suspicious how she could have run into the girl since she was NOT even in the same school when the news reports said this began. I find it also very funny that she only had ONE encounter in the girls bathroom in school. I can BET that they had a LOT MORE which is how it became an open “secret” and the coach found out. This is all she admitted to is all that is. It is ironic that the parents lie and then complain when the facts are published. Give me a break!
As for her not being an adult, you forget that since she IS an adult LEGALLY, her parents cannot be sued by the victims parents. is THAT fair? You cannot have it one way for her illegal actions and then say that her parents are immune because she is an adult. If the prosecutor really wanted to play hard ball, Kates parents would be facing charges as would the coach who knew about this illegal activity and did nothing. If the folks at Penn State can be nailed for cover-ups of sexual abuse, these folks are liable too. Then there is the stupid complaint that the cops did not have her parents there during questioning. THAT is a red herring too since the law does NOT require it for an adult. The police were NOT under any obligation to inform the parents of the reason for the arrest either since again, SHE IS AN ADULT. You don’t like this age being the one for majority, then get a Constitutional Amendment passed to bring the age limit back to 21 and make the Selective Service Act make 21 the draft age. Most of my contemporaries who were killed in Vietnam were kids under 21 by the way.
Randyjet – If you read the affidavit carefully, there are at least two encounters in the bathroom because she is asked when was the last time she had sex, and the answer was a month ago in the same bathroom where they first had sex. The school system fails here in their supervisory capacity. If I hired a babysitter and this kind of thing was happening, I would never use that babysitter again. So how is the school board disciplining the school? Who in the school is being held accountable?
Thank you MIke S for showing that Texas is NOT dead last in most things. But once again, MS screws it up for us too. We cannot even get to the top of teen pregnancy rates. I hope that people will see that this is ONLY for girls from 15, NOT 14, to 19. So one has to wonder just how much sexual activity this girl had and according to the report, it was her first sexual experience. So while it may be true that kids are engaging in sex before they get out of high school, it sure does NOT support the idea that 14 year olds are part of the mix. Again, nobody will answer the question as to what should happen to a boy of 18 doing the same or what should happen to a high school drop out boy doing the same thing to a 14 year old girl. I think I know the answer which is why nobody wants to say it.
Good for them…. Thanks OS…. If the can bring down the FBI web hosting site I suppose a bump can be total chaos …..
Looks like somebody in the sheriff’s office is about to be schooled on the power of the Internet. Two days ago, the online activist group Anonymous posted an open letter to the prosecutor. The sheriff’s response:
http://pastebin.com/STRNnv39
I am glad that we got to read the actual charge sheet and get some facts. It turns out Kate was 18 when she preyed upon a new freshman girl, NOT 17 as the false reports said. Then her statement acknowledges the FACT she knew she was WELL under age and tried to excuse her behavior by saying she acted older! This makes guys who get caught with underage girls who lie about their ages look innocent. Think that any guy will get off with a slap on the wrist for statutory rape? When I see young guys get off with nothing for statutory rape, THEN I will agree with all those who think this woman is being overcharged.
Then we find out why the whole school knew about this relationsip since they were making love in the girls bathroom. I think that they did this more than once too over the whole school year and is all that Kate confessed to. They would have had to be extremely unlucky to be caught the ONE time that they did that. If anything, the coach who knew about this could also be charged for not reporting this. She had more than ample warning from others that this was NOT wanted and wrong and more to the point, ILLEGAL. So it seems to me that the parents of the girl had made it perfectly CLEAR to Kate to NOT see their daughter anymore. In fact, it is probably the reason the girl ran away from home to go to Kates room and spend the night. Kate’s parents are also liable if they did NOT call the parents of the girl to get their permission for her to be at their home. I find that alone rather troubling for a former law enforcement officer. When I was a minor, my parents knew exactly where I was every night and the parents of my friends had spoken to my parents to get their OK. There are so many failures of adults in this, that I can see why the girls parents felt that a criminal complaint was their only recourse.
Tried to post answer several times, but it won’t go through. Don’t know why.
So David’s is it the orientation you object to…..
Anonymously Yours –
I don’t see what orientation has to do with anything in this case. No objection from me.
In terms of legal theory, I don’t think orientation should ever be mentioned by the law because it defines something in the mind and heart, internal to a person, which should never be criminalized nor singled out for special protection by the law.
If you are asking if the gender of the perpetrator is an issue for me, the answer is yes, gender is an issue on how I react as a father. If this child were my daughter, I would be somewhat relieved to know that it was a woman. I would be more concerned if it was a man because a man usually has a more aggressive nature than a woman does, and he has an organ that can create pregnancy. I would feel better knowing it was a woman, but I still would not like it, and I would want to put a stop to it for my daughter’s health and proper development.
That’s easy.
I would be more than concerned if I discovered that my child was having sex with *anybody* – regardless of age or sexual orientation.
I would consider it totally inappropriate.
That being said, my first port of call would certainly not be the law – in what I understand to be the circumstances in this particular case.
The law is a blunt, imprecise and inhuman instrument. It should be the very last resort after all else has failed.
David, can you link to the sources you’re using regarding ages and dates?
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@Nick
/FACEPALM
Reminds me of an ouroboros for some reason.
Blind Faithiness –
Redacted Affidavit:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/142642135/Kaitlyn-Hunt-Redacted-Affidavit-Redacted
David, There are a lot of pc shoot from the hip users of “phobe,” “bigot,” “racist,” etc. in this forum. C’est la vie.
David,
Since when is rock not a rock? You think it’s a orientation….right…. How about Romeo and Juliet laws…. Do they break your spirit too….
Anonymously Yours –
Not sure what you are trying to say about orientation.
Romeo and Juliet laws are helpful.
Kate’s father (from xojane piece (see earlier comment))
“The police taped a conversation between Kate and her girlfriend, which led to Kate’s arrest. Kate was interrogated extensively without a lawyer present. I am a former police officer, so she trusted the police and didn’t feel she had anything to hide.”
They asked Kate if she knew it was wrong to have sex with the child because she was only 14, and Kate said she did not think about it because the child acted older.
OS please answer my question as to whether or not NAMBLA qualifies as sexual predators. They are against all age of consent laws. Also this is NOT about common teenage behavior since she was an adult. It makes NO difference whether or not one is 18 or 90 as to the law. As I said, when I was that age, we ALL knew the law about underage sex and when we would face adult charges.
I am more concerned about the cavalier attitude many have towards child abuse. That is the subject. In fact, from what I have heard about the Vagina monologues, they consider lesbian RAPE OK! This is part of that mind set.
“Sorry while you are technically correct, from your post I gather that you support the cause and the statements. Thus by aligning yourself with false statements, I take that to mean you endorse them.” -randyjet
There you go… jumping to conclusions, again, randyjet. You might have stopped while you were ahead with “technically correct.”
“It is applied in a black-white fashion – with no room for humanity.” That is indeed how the law is applied, which is precisely why legislators must be very careful about the wording of the laws they pass. What this person did would be legal in many states, but not in Florida. And the fact that the sexual relationship may or may not have existed prior to her 18th birthday is immaterial. Florida law provides no exception for pre-existing relationships. It is concerned solely with the ages of the people involved.
“On the contrary, the law is reason, free from passion.”
In this particular case, at least, the law is inflexible application of a very simplistic general rule. It is applied in a black-white fashion – with no room for humanity. In short, the law is an ass because it attempts to be free from humans. It’s a very lazy ass.
A feature of this particular case seems to be that an ongoing relationship became a crime simply because one of them had a birthday.
There is nothing praise-worthy in bringing the full weight of the law to bear in the case. It’s a big failure for society.
SlingTrebuchet wrote: “A feature of this particular case seems to be that an ongoing relationship became a crime simply because one of them had a birthday.”
There was no sexual relationship until Kaitlyn was 18 and the child was 14. Your perspective that a birthday made this a crime does not make sense.
The sexual relationship also caused the child to run away from home, and being too young to drive, guess what adult picked her up? That’s right, Kaitlyn was there to pick her up, bring her home and have more sex with her in her bedroom which went beyond what they had been doing in the school bathroom.
Prior to this sexual relationship with Kaitlyn, the child had never had any sexual experience. She was a virgin. As a parent of the child, would you be happy for your 14 year old child, or would you be concerned that somebody older and more experienced was disturbing your child’s natural sexual development?
I am amazed at the bigotry exhibited by those who blame the parents, accusing them of being homophobes. Really? No consideration at all that parents who are forced to send their daughter to school find out that the school created the opportunity for an 18 year old to sexually assault their child?
I have long been a critic of the current school system allowing children in schools to behave sexually in the hallways. Maybe I’m old fashioned, but teachers did not allow that when I was in school. Today it is freely allowed. In this case, they used cell phones and the school bathroom to hook up the first time.
Anyway, prosecution is up to the prosecutor, not the parents. It doesn’t matter how loud the parents scream about it, the prosecutor makes the decision of what to do about it. He could have had them sit down with Kaitlyn writing a letter of apology and agreeing to leave their family alone. He is the one who has chosen to prosecute, so if you are going to blame someone, blame the prosecutor, not the parents.
Also, blame the legislature for not crafting a suitable law for situations like this one. They need to make the law clear and not rely solely upon the discretion of the prosecutor.
Another disturbing thing is that the crime first happened when Kaitlyn was 18 and the child was 14. Reports mix up these ages, apparently because they became friends when Kaitlyn was 17. I suspect some homosexual activist types are trying to capitalize on this story so everyone should be suspicious of the alleged facts stated in second hand news accounts.