The Iranian government is continuing its crackdown on non-Muslim faiths this month with a shocking arrest of a minister in the middle of a service at Iran’s largest Persian-language Pentecostal church. One can only imagine the response of Muslims in the country if a Muslim cleric was arrested in the middle of a service in another country. However, the Iranian government pulled Pastor Robert Asserian off the altar and literally dragged him out of the church. The move is viewed as a warning to non-Muslims before the June 14 presidential election to replace President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
Muslim clerics are alarmed by the rise in Christian services and do not want services conducted in Farsi (as opposed to Armenian which most Iranians cannot understand).
Iranian police also searched the minister’s home and took his computer and books.
So it appears that some religious freedom will be tolerated in Iran so long as it is not in a language that people can actually understand. Only the Mullahs of Iran would view that as a principled position.
Source: Fox
How long does Rev. Robert Asserian ministered in his church?
Iran is a messed up place. I have not met a Muslim, liberal/conservative, Sunni or Shia that wants to go there. I was invited there once and every Muslim I knew warned me not to go, in spite of(or perhaps because of?) being invited by influential people. Just too dangerous-and the thought was that even if there were no incidents in Iran, no matter where I went afterwards, I would have grief for having set foot there and that even when I got a new passport, the memory would live forever. . .so, despite my desire to see some of the architecture and the culture, I declined. I don’t regret that I didn’t go, but I regret that I couldn’t. It has so many beautiful places and actually some truly wonderful people. The govt is mucked up beyond hope, though. It is politics and power run amuk and the religion is abused and used to further personal interest.It’s very sad for a people with a long and storied history to be reduced to enslavement to a regime of dictators.
For Christians to be treated in this way is a reproach to the Quran and to Islam which IS supposed to be tolerant of other faiths that mean no harm.
Anonymously Yours 1, May 29, 2013 at 10:17 pm
Raff,
They are taking notes….and checking it twice…gonna report who’s naughty and nice…..
But don’t forget that RCC services were conducted in Latin for many, many years…..
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Put in a piece of pressure treated wood to told up the rain dispenser. Raining pretty good right now.
Mike Spindell wrote: ” Religious Fundamentalism and the belief of exclusivity of salvation (however one define salvation) is the root cause of religions doing evil in the name of their God.”
I have difficulty seeing it this way because millions of religious fundamentalists and people who believe in exclusivity of salvation do not do evil in the name of their God. Nevertheless, if this is how you see it, what do you see as the root cause for atheists doing evil in the name of their government?
“I have difficulty seeing it this way because millions of religious fundamentalists and people who believe in exclusivity of salvation do not do evil in the name of their God. Nevertheless, if this is how you see it, what do you see as the root cause for atheists doing evil in the name of their government?”
DavidM,
Belief in the exclusivity of salvation is not only an an evil, but to my mind is blasphemy. The evil comes with the fact that the concept of exclusivity of salvation is a fear tactic used by con men, pretending piety, to gain power over their followers. In Christianity it was a tenet of Paul, who never knew Jesus and eventually led to Christianity falling under the influence of the Romans to prop up their Empire. Islamic fundamentalists also use the same tactic, for the same reasons. Many religions do not need the concept in order to worship God. Judaism is one, Buddhism another. It actually reaches a point of ridiculousness many years ago when Billy Graham stated that some aboriginal native, who had never heard of Jesus, was damned to Hell anyway for not accepting Jesus.
The blasphemy as I see it stems from a diminishment of the Creator of the Universe into a kind of cosmic scorekeeper, setting traps for people who don’t follow “His Word” perfectly. To me that demeans the whole concept of God into a judge without mercy.
When you ask the root cause for atheists doing evil in the name of the government you expose your lack of logic that Tony and I have tried to inform you about. There is no logical nexus between the two statements, in fact it is a false equivalency. You need to stick to computer logic where you say you are successful and stay away from philosophical logic because you apparently don’t understand it.
Mike Spindell –
I understand logic enough to know that it is foolish for someone to think there is a different kind of logic for philosophy than for other disciplines of study. What you fail to understand about logic is that it is built upon premises. Usually assumptions are made about the veracity of those premises, and as in your case, often unquestioned assumptions are made. When someone questions the unquestioned assumptions, it becomes unsettling to that person’s world view. That’s when the ad hominem slams are done to obfuscate the issue and turn the dialogue toward emotion rather than logic.
There really is a common reason for why some men perpetuate evil in the name of religion or in the name of government, and that reason transcends religion. I’ve said enough to cause someone interested in truth to have reason enough to look for it. I’ve simply made some common observations involving set theory. Some will be dismissive while others will engage logic to the problem and gain insight. An Islamic fundamentalist like Osama bin Laden acted in the name of his religion while an atheist like Mussolini acted in the name of State government. Both men perpetuated evil on society. Explore the nexus of these men and other men like them and you will find knowledge and wisdom which you claim does not exist.
Iran is an Islamic Republic. Shia Islam is its official religion. Blasphemy is a criminal offense. So nobody in Iran is allowed to criticize either the State or the religion of Islam. Nobody can criticize the Qur’an. Most of Christianity teaches the Trinity, a doctrine specifically condemned by the Qur’an. The Pentecostal denominations that do not believe in the Trinity teach Sabellianism, which also would be blasphemy according to Islam. There is little doubt that this pastor violated the laws of Iran. It is a slam dunk case.
This case illustrates why it is so important for a country to define laws correctly according to natural law. When the laws are defined improperly, injustice is done in the name of the law. Tyranny and oppression are the outcome when laws are defined strictly by the whim of men instead of using reason to discern natural law.
Raff,
They are taking notes….and checking it twice…gonna report who’s naughty and nice…..
But don’t forget that RCC services were conducted in Latin for many, many years…..
Reblogged this on Thoughtful Processes and commented:
Are you kidding me? …
maybe they were uncomfortable with people speaking in tongues.
Those who can– do.
Those who can’t– preach.
Those who can’t preach– teach preachers.
Islam is and always has been a replacement “theology,” a term that I use very loosely. Islam knows that the only way it can expand is by eliminating any competition. If you’ve seen the movie, “Invasion of the Body Snatchers” (one of the great sci-fi political allegory movies), and you substitute Muslims for the Pods, you basically have the picture; although, of course, the transformation in the movies is relatively painless compared to what really happens when the Islamic replacement “theology” is put into practice. (Maybe it’s time for yet another, updated, more politicized version of “Invasion,” but with a far more painful transformation process.)
Christianity also used to be a replacement theology, and it still is in some circles, but not as a general rule anymore.
The other major religions of the world, Judaism, Hinduism, and Buddhism, have not been replacement theologies as far as I can tell from my readings and observations. And that is how it should be. Nobody should be stopped from practicing their religion or from not following any religion, but, equally important, nobody should be compelled to follow any religion.
Muslim clerics are alarmed by the rise in Christian services and do not want services conducted in Farsi (as opposed to Armenian which most Iranians cannot understand).
Iranian police also searched the minister’s home and took his computer and books.
So it appears that some religious freedom will be tolerated in Iran so long as it is not in a language that people can actually understand. Only the Mullahs of Iran would view that as a principled position.
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Ask the IRS if they understand. I do.
I guess we should not be surprised what happens anymore in Iran. Any country that mixes religion with government is asking for this kind of censorship. I wonder if the religious right here in the US has read this story??
What were the charges –praying in Farsi, the language of the majority of Iranians?
These countries have the best civil rights records:
Canada 95
United Kingdom 92
United States 86
Israel 67
India 60
Turkey 45
Jordan 25
Pakistan 21
Egypt 15
Tunisia 11
Iran 8
Saudi Arabia 4
Korea, North 0
I will keep w/ my mantra, “Great religion.”
barkindog:
he sure did. been saying that myself for years.
religion is not the problem, it is human beings. we do all manner of things to each other except “love our neighbor as oursleves” and “So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.”
Bush invaded the wrong Eye country.
Yeah and on the Eighth Day God created Dog– not some Ayatold-ya-so.
Iran: Pirate Territory. Fly over and flush.
First came the students. You cannot go to war just because some students hijack and embassy and hold the Embassy folks hostage. Nah, that is not the government of Iran and that is not Piracy.
Then, came the Ayatold-yaso or however ya spull it. Well, he is not a Pirate, he is a Cleric with a big C.
Then came the Akmenajid or however ya spull it in English. Shifty eyed snake in the grass but Hey, he is a legitimate Prime Minister or some such title. He is not a Pirate.
No, there are no Pirates in Iran. Its a civilized nation state that belongs to the UN.
So the argument goes. Washington, from Jimmy Peanut Farmer to all the rest including two generations of scions from Prescott to Obama. Washington can not discern a Pirate Territory Shame on you America. Went in dumb, come out dumb too, hustlin round Atlanta in your alligator shoes….
Dont mind me, I am just a dog barkin.
I assume the proposition is that the Iranian Muslim Clerics believe that competition will diminish belief in Allah. If, as they say, they believe in an omniscient, omnipresent and All-Powerful Deity, than their position is blasphemous. The blasphemy is in believing that Allah isn’t capable of dealing with non-believers without a lot of help. Things are nowhere near as bad religiously here as there, but many Fundamentalist Christians would make it so if they could. Religious Fundamentalism and the belief of exclusivity of salvation (however one define salvation) is the root cause of religions doing evil in the name of their God.