There is an interesting ruling out of the Sixth District Court of Appeal in California where a unanimous state appellate panel ruled that beating a child with a wooden spoon is not child abuse, even if it leaves bruises. The mother, Veronica Gonzalez, was reported for possible child abuse of her 12-year-old daughter. The daughter says that a friend “tricked” her into going to school officials about the beating. The case is Gonzalez v. Santa Clara County Dep’t of Soc. Servs., 2013 Cal. App. LEXIS 802.
Here is the facts found by the court:
Prior to the events giving rise to this matter, Mother and her husband (Father) had become gravely concerned about Daughter’s declining academic performance and alarming social tendencies. As Father put it, Daughter “had decided that she did not have to do her school or home work, repeatedly lied to both of us, [and] started showing interest in gang culture.”1 Mother declared that Daughter had become “boy crazy and started to mingle with a new type of crowd,” and that they had found pictures and text messages on her mobile phone “in reference to gangs.” They “had many discussions” with Daughter about these developments, but to no avail: “She would hear us yet continued to go down this road . . . . [S]he began saying that her favorite color is red . . . . [S]he was not doing many of her school and homework assignments and even her teachers expressed . . . annoyance with her disregard for her work. We also discovered that [Daughter] had been lying to us about completing assignments and had been hiding test[s] with low scores that were supposed to have gotten signed by us.” Daughter’s older sister (Sister) also declared that Daughter’s “interest in gangs seemed to be growing.” She “started to become very irresponsible in school by being late to classes, having really bad grades because she was doing hardly any of her school and homework, was lying to my parents about lots of things, and started hanging around wanna-be gangster kids at school.” Daughter herself declared, “I have to admit, for a long time, starting in 6th grade, I was always getting to class late, not doing my school assignments, and lying to my parents.” She acknowledged that milder disciplinary measures had failed to influence her: “When I first started doing all this, my parents grounded me many times, by taking away all my fun stuff like my iPod, my T.V., my cell phone, and I was not allowed to hang out with friends. I don’t know why that stuff didn’t work on me, but I continued to not do what I was supposed to.”
Mother described in more detail the failure of these less stringent methods of discipline: “[A]fter a few weeks of grounding when [Daughter] would get off of restriction she would do better for a short time, but then revert back to the same behavior, over and over. We would go through several sessions of groundings over several months, hoping it would finally make the difference, but grounding proved to be ineffective at setting [Daughter] back on the right path. At this point, we did not know what else to do to help [Daughter]. We talked again, and felt that the only other option out there, would be to try spanking. So the weekend before the incident in question, my husband and I sat [Daughter] down and explained to her that, since she kept lying to us repeatedly about completing assignments, she now needed to get her agenda signed by each teacher so we could be sure she was really doing all of her work. We also informed her that if she continued with this irresponsible behavior, [such as] not doing her assignments, being late to class and lying to us, she would start to receive one spank on the bottom for each thing not done. She understood the new consequences. but still chose to continue the bad behavior.”
According to the Mother, on each of the first three days of the new regime Daughter came home without having “complet[ed] her tasks.” This resulting in her being spanked by Father “with his hand, only on the buttocks, fully clothed, and in a calm manner.” (Capitalization removed.) When Mother picked Daughter up at school on Thursday, April 29, 2010, she had again failed to comply with her parents’ directives. She [*6] gave implausible excuses, a further violation of parental orders. Mother called Father “and told him that [Daughter] still wasn’t doing her work and was late again, and that he needed to come home and deal with this. He told me he wouldn’t be home until late that evening and that I needed to handle it, or else [Daughter] would not respect me or take me seriously as a parent. Because of my hand condition, he said I should just use a wooden spoon. I told him that I’d rather he just spank her when he gets home from work, but he insisted that I should handle it. I finally agreed and told [Daughter] that I would have to be the one to spank her this day and that I was going to use a wooden spoon because my hands hurt.” Father also declared that the idea of using a spoon had been his, and had arisen from the exigency of his not coming home until “very late that evening.”
Mother declared that upon arriving home, she retrieved a wooden spoon and “gave [Daughter] around five or six spanks on the bottom, one for each thing not done and for making excuses. [Daughter] was fully clothed during the spanking. She was not crying or screaming during the spanking.” (Capitalization removed.) Family members [*7] declared unanimously that spankings had been a rarity in the family, that they had only been given in response to misbehavior, that they were never given in the heat of anger, and that they were almost always given by Father, and always with an open hand.
On the next day Daughter disclosed to some friends that she had been spanked with a wooden spoon. One of them reported, or “tricked” Daughter into reporting, the matter to school authorities. An unnamed “mandated child abuse reporter[]”āmanifestly a school employeeāfilled out a “suspected child abuse report.” (Emphasis omitted.) Under “[i]ncident [i]nformation,” the reporter wrote, “Victim says she gets ‘smack’ by parents when she is not doing what parents are expecting from her. She said Mom hits her with a wooden spoon and Dad hits her with his hand. Last time she was hit was on 4/29/10 on her botto[m] / picture was taken.”
That fact pattern set up a clear record for the court to decide whether parents can still use spoons or other objects to discipline their students. The case turned on the state definitions of abuse, which are extremely vague. Under state law, a report is “‘[s]ubstantiated'” if the conduct reported is “determined by the investigator who conducted the investigation to constitute child abuse or neglect . . . , based upon evidence that makes it more likely than not that child abuse . . . occurred.” Since neglect was not alleged, the case turned to two definitions of abuse. First is the “‘willful harming or injuring of a child,” is defined as “willfully caus[ing] or permit[ting] any child to suffer, or inflict[ing] thereon, unjustifiable physical pain or mental suffering.” (Pen. Code, Ā§ 11165.3.) Second is the “‘unlawful corporal punishment or injury,'” is defined as “willfully inflict[ing] upon any child any cruel or inhuman corporal punishment or injury resulting in a traumatic condition.” (Pen. Code, Ā§ 11165.4.) There is a privilege recognized in California state however when “a reasonable person would find that punishment was necessary under the circumstances and that the . . . physical force used . . . was reasonable.” (CALCRIM No. 3405).
The panel faulted the trial court for refusing to consider such defenses by the mother. The panel held:
As we have said, a successful assertion of the parental disciplinary privilege requires three elements: (1) a genuine disciplinary motive; (2) a reasonable occasion for discipline; and (3) a disciplinary measure reasonable in kind and degree. . . .
The only question presenting any difficulty is whether the measure actually appliedāspanking with a wooden spoon, with resulting bruisesāwas reasonable in kind and degree. To overlook as harmless the trial court’s failure to entertain the reasonable discipline privilege, it would have to appear as a matter of law either that a wooden spoon was an unreasonable means to administer the spanking, or that it was applied with excessive force.We cannot say that the use of a wooden spoon to administer a spanking necessarily exceeds the bounds of reasonable parental discipline. Although no published California decision addresses this issue, the Attorney General has concluded that “[i]t is not unlawful for a parent to spank a child for disciplinary purposes with an object other than the hand,” provided that “the punishment [is] necessary and not excessive in relation to the individual circumstances.” . . .
Nor do we think that the infliction of visible bruises automatically requires a finding that the limits of reasonable discipline were exceeded. Certainly the presence of lasting bruises or other marks may support a finding that a parent crossed the line between permissible discipline and reportable abuse. . . . However, such effects alone [do not compel a finding of child abuse.
In some countries, any corporal punishment is treated as presumptively abusive. With four kids, I have yet to spank any of them though I consider spanking to be an option. I simply have never found it necessary. Not because my kids are angels. They can at times be close to feral, but I have found other alternative forms of punishment like taking away electronics (which is akin to an amputation for kids today). I grew up in a house where spanking occurred but not very often. My father (who was abused as a child) rarely spanked the kids and refused (unlike many of the fathers in our building in Chicago) to use a belt or a switch or any object. He used his bare hand and the kid was left fully clothed (despite my putting a magazine in my pants on one occasion). He would only briefly spank us — generally at the suggestion of my mother for severely bad conduct. Indeed, if you said you were sorry or cried, he would stop. (I would generally start to wail upon approaching my father and achieved a record low level of spanking — an early recognition of the value of throwing oneself on the mercy of the court. My next older brother — Christopher — on the other hand was a hard case and would refuse to cry or ask forgiveness.). With five kids, my parents found the threat of corporal punishment to be useful, even if rarely used. They are viewed (by us) as highly progressive because it was common for friends to be beaten by belts or sticks when we were growing up.
What do you think? Should any corporal punishment be viewed as abuse today?
Source: Mercury News
āWhy else is spanking harmful?
It destroys trust. Children trust their parents just a little less. They build a self-protective shield around themselves in terms of relationships generally.ā
5 of my siblings and myself were beaten, with belts, flat of hand, fist (dad), pussy willow switches, hair brushes, flat of hand or whatever was handy (mom). The last time I was hit was with dad’s fist. I stood up to him after the hit, told him that he was to never, ever, hit me again. The else was unspoken. He never hit me again. Damn, if only I had known that he was a bully who could have been stopped by being challenged!
Yes, it destroys trust and I don’t let others get too close.
While I have to admit to a couple of instances of spanking when my kids were young, but I am ashamed of my actions. I do not agree with it and I especially do not agree that hitting any child with any object is acceptable behavior for any adult or parent. I am interested in why the parents took pictures of the “last” time this child has struck?
JAG, Welcome home, woman. Were you aware of the death of idealist?
I get the sense you were spanked unrighteously, and for that you have my empathy.
SWM, I think many people w/ your husband’s experience have the same outlook when they are parents. I don’t think corporal punishment is for every parent or for every child. I think it can be effective in limited circumstances UNDER CONTROL, NEVER IN ANGER. Almost all the corporal punishment was done by my mother. My old man had “the look.” And, “the look” was more effective than corporal for me. However, “the look” is a natural born skill, and wow did my old man have it. We kids spoke much more of “the look” than the belt.
JAG (@JustAGurLnSwedn):” Excerpt from articleā¦..
āWhy else is spanking harmful?
It destroys trust. Children trust their parents just a little less. They build a self-protective shield around themselves in terms of relationships generally.”
Hey. Guess what. Parents are not meant to be their children’s buddies or their best friends. They are meant to be their parents. Personally, I feel that there are WAY too many ‘ child psychologists’ involved in rearing children and not enough just plain, ordinary, common sense.
Ditto here, DisgustedonEastBroadway. There was many a day when I went to school with belt marks on my butt or legs and guess what? Number 1; I can’t think of an instance where I didn’t deserve exactly what I got and, Number 2; it didn’t physically or emotionally cripple me for life, nor did I become a serial killer. I made it through childhood/adolescence perfectly fine. Matter of fact, there are a couple of entire generations running loose (some even procreating now. Horrors!) that SHOULD have had their little butts smacked prn. Wouldn’t have done them any harm.
MANY Child psychologists feel that spanking a child totally changes who they are and breaks them….. they feel it is very damaging to the child….
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201309/research-spanking-it-s-bad-all-kids
Excerpt from article…..
“Why else is spanking harmful?
It destroys trust. Children trust their parents just a little less. They build a self-protective shield around themselves in terms of relationships generally. Children increasingly mistrust the motives of others and become a more threat reactive. It leads to aggressive expectationsāthey are ready to aggress first before they are aggressed against.
Spanking is harmful for even more reasons, the review indicates:
Spanking destroys mental health.
Spanking increases delinquency and criminal behavior.
Spanking makes it more likely the child will be physically abused.”
just a little thing to think about….
The USA has one of the HIGHEST rates of Child abuse….
30 per million children die as a result of child abuse or neglect…..
where as Sweden the numbers are 6 per million….
and in Southern Europe it is even lower….
Sweden, Norway, and many countries in Europe have made it illegal
to spank your child…..
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0918-01.htm
ONCE upon a time I thought that spanking was OK….. and could be a
useful means of punishment…… Tho, I ONLY ONCE gave my daughter a swat on the booty for playing with the electrical cord and would not stop…..
being that what she was doing was dangerous, I felt I needed to take extreme measures…… and gave her a swat on the behind…. she was about 3 years old at the time…… and I have NOT done this since…..
after much careful thought, I no longer feel that spanking should be allowed….
NOT only is spanking using violence to get what you want from your child….
There are FAR MORE reasonable ways of teaching your child right from wrong……..
I find it interesting that the Professor referred to the punishment as a beating, whereas in the excerpts from the case it was called a spanking.
In the first purported child abuse matter that I dealt with, the stateās āexpertā acknowledged that the buttock bruises very easily. As a result, I concluded that bruises per se were a bad measure of whether abuse had occurred. Since that time, Iāve encountered a handful of matters where a spanking worked wonders in terms of changing a childās behavior.
Iāve also seen a father who struck a child to stop the child from beating the mom, a father who defended himself against his drunk teenager, and a mom defending herself all charged with abuse.
In terms of the question asked: I think it would be wrong to make corporal punishment per se child abuse. (Where I live, it is not now per se abuse, but many argue that leaving any mark makes it abuse. I donāt believe that that is a correct reading of the law.) I also think the comments in this thread show the worth and limit of corporal punishment: used sparingly it can have a positive effect, used often or in anger and it is a terrible thing.
As a side note re the difference between boys and girls: I am seeing what is in essence an argument that by failing to account for this difference we are creating a problem for boys, for example by disallowing ānaturalā behavior in the schools. (The instapundit blog has examples.)
nick,
If one has to be an “only” it’s best to be the oldest. I was the oldest and ruled my brothers with an iron fist.
I’m not the least bit ashamed to say that my tactic was psychological, not physical … all I had to say to get them to behave was, “I’m going to tell Dad you hit me.” So much for feminism.
All the turmoil not withstanding, I considered them to be my best friends and I theirs.
And yet children aren’t cookie cutter creations. Some are more reason and logic resistant than others. I never got swatted once after my parents realized (at a fairly young age) that reason worked just fine with me so long as they had reasonable answers when I asked “why”. I’ve got fully grown cousins who are today as logic proof as they ever were as children. Some so much so that even suffering terrible and painful consequences for bad actions doesn’t deter them. Do you let a child, under your care, continue to do things that might severely injure themselves or others based solely upon a moral or ethical stance against violence as a general proposition or do you do what is required to protect them (and others) from themselves?
Sometimes love is tough, but there is a distinction between tough love and abusive. When that line is crossed, it is an onus that rests solely upon the parent. It is a line marked always by minimal force required until force itself becomes more damaging than the sought deterrence of action. At that point, you can no longer protect a child from themselves and the consequences of their actions. The ethical choice is to let them suffer consequences from their actions instead of protecting them. It’s a choice not all are capable of making or of making well.
There is the rub.
Children don’t come with an instruction manual and, as they say in the commercials, your performance may vary.
Gene,
Exactly. Tex and I have met a couple and they were very nice young ladies but we’re not allowed to mention it to “the girls”.
His reasoning is exactly as you stated and I love to privately tease him about the girls clamoring to be in the wedding party and ask him if he’s seen the movie, Bridesmaids. He hasn’t. Tex tells him to play it safe and elope. I tell him not to as his sisters, mom, aunt, and niece would kill him.
Blouise, The Scots are not well known in this country. Italian, Irish, German, Polish, Jew, etc. are. My mom’s maiden name was Scott. Her old man was a Scottish coal miner from Nova Scotia, her mom[Powers], Irish from Halifax. She saw the distinct difference between Irish and Scottish, two cultures most Americans wrongly conflate. And that young man is wise not bringing a girlfriend home. Did he see the Mark Wahlberg flick as the fighter w/ all those crazy Irish sisters? It would give him nightmares if he saw the scenes w/ Wahlberg’s sisters and his girlfriend. The girlfriend more than holds her own, however. I had 2 sisters and a brother..balance.
Humans can justify anything including perpetrating violence on their children.
“My grandson, wisely, never brings a girlfriend home.”
Smart kid, Blouise. He probably is waiting for “the one” before submitting her to the Gauntlet his female relatives undoubtedly will put her through. š
I was told by a psychologist when my children were young that hitting children with implements constituted child abuse. A good quick swift spank on the rear of a clothed young child was not. My son was very easy to raise and required very little discipline. I had to take privileges from my daughter as she was stronger willed. My husband was hit by his mother with implements and also slapped in the face by her so he was adamantly against any physical punishment of the children. I was spanked once by my father and have always remembered it. My mother hit us with a hair brush a few times but I was not traumatized by it.
nick,
“When feminist have boys they get their mind right on that lie QUICKLY.”
lol … that is the truth.
My mother was a feminist long before it was popular but she grew up in a family of all girls and corporal punishment was seldom/never used. My father grew up in a strict, Scot family of all boys and corporal punishment was used. I would eavesdrop on their conversations regarding the boys (my brothers) and different discipline techniques they thought might work. I would listen to what they were saying and think to myself, “Give it up … those 3 are hopeless.”
I have 2 daughters and 6 grandchildren … 5 girls and 1 boy. No corporal discipline used or needed. My grandson, wisely, never brings a girlfriend home. š
My parents spanked me on a regular basis for my misdeeds. It was ten spanks or more depending on the severity of the crime. I sure learned not to do that thing again!
Hell in German class I did not do my homework, and the teacher, Herr Dr. Ats was a Hungarian Army officer during WWII. He had a paddle that was the size of a baseball bat, and he took one swat to see how far he could knock you across the desks. I can tell you that German homework got done FIRST after that. Ich kann Deutsch sprechen.
J. Brian, Western Mass is just as nice as Vermont this time of year w/o a lot of obnoxious Ny’ers. This may not be your cup o’ tea but there’s a nearby blue collar town of Lee, Ma. A place called Teo’s, owned by Greeks, has some of the best hot dogs in the western world. They’re REAL dogs w/ natural casings and good, cold beer. Great time of year to be in that part of the country, safe travels.
OS,
Very similar to how I learned about thermal induction but without the second degree burn.