There is an interesting ruling out of the Sixth District Court of Appeal in California where a unanimous state appellate panel ruled that beating a child with a wooden spoon is not child abuse, even if it leaves bruises. The mother, Veronica Gonzalez, was reported for possible child abuse of her 12-year-old daughter. The daughter says that a friend “tricked” her into going to school officials about the beating. The case is Gonzalez v. Santa Clara County Dep’t of Soc. Servs., 2013 Cal. App. LEXIS 802.
Here is the facts found by the court:
Prior to the events giving rise to this matter, Mother and her husband (Father) had become gravely concerned about Daughter’s declining academic performance and alarming social tendencies. As Father put it, Daughter “had decided that she did not have to do her school or home work, repeatedly lied to both of us, [and] started showing interest in gang culture.”1 Mother declared that Daughter had become “boy crazy and started to mingle with a new type of crowd,” and that they had found pictures and text messages on her mobile phone “in reference to gangs.” They “had many discussions” with Daughter about these developments, but to no avail: “She would hear us yet continued to go down this road . . . . [S]he began saying that her favorite color is red . . . . [S]he was not doing many of her school and homework assignments and even her teachers expressed . . . annoyance with her disregard for her work. We also discovered that [Daughter] had been lying to us about completing assignments and had been hiding test[s] with low scores that were supposed to have gotten signed by us.” Daughter’s older sister (Sister) also declared that Daughter’s “interest in gangs seemed to be growing.” She “started to become very irresponsible in school by being late to classes, having really bad grades because she was doing hardly any of her school and homework, was lying to my parents about lots of things, and started hanging around wanna-be gangster kids at school.” Daughter herself declared, “I have to admit, for a long time, starting in 6th grade, I was always getting to class late, not doing my school assignments, and lying to my parents.” She acknowledged that milder disciplinary measures had failed to influence her: “When I first started doing all this, my parents grounded me many times, by taking away all my fun stuff like my iPod, my T.V., my cell phone, and I was not allowed to hang out with friends. I don’t know why that stuff didn’t work on me, but I continued to not do what I was supposed to.”
Mother described in more detail the failure of these less stringent methods of discipline: “[A]fter a few weeks of grounding when [Daughter] would get off of restriction she would do better for a short time, but then revert back to the same behavior, over and over. We would go through several sessions of groundings over several months, hoping it would finally make the difference, but grounding proved to be ineffective at setting [Daughter] back on the right path. At this point, we did not know what else to do to help [Daughter]. We talked again, and felt that the only other option out there, would be to try spanking. So the weekend before the incident in question, my husband and I sat [Daughter] down and explained to her that, since she kept lying to us repeatedly about completing assignments, she now needed to get her agenda signed by each teacher so we could be sure she was really doing all of her work. We also informed her that if she continued with this irresponsible behavior, [such as] not doing her assignments, being late to class and lying to us, she would start to receive one spank on the bottom for each thing not done. She understood the new consequences. but still chose to continue the bad behavior.”
According to the Mother, on each of the first three days of the new regime Daughter came home without having “complet[ed] her tasks.” This resulting in her being spanked by Father “with his hand, only on the buttocks, fully clothed, and in a calm manner.” (Capitalization removed.) When Mother picked Daughter up at school on Thursday, April 29, 2010, she had again failed to comply with her parents’ directives. She [*6] gave implausible excuses, a further violation of parental orders. Mother called Father “and told him that [Daughter] still wasn’t doing her work and was late again, and that he needed to come home and deal with this. He told me he wouldn’t be home until late that evening and that I needed to handle it, or else [Daughter] would not respect me or take me seriously as a parent. Because of my hand condition, he said I should just use a wooden spoon. I told him that I’d rather he just spank her when he gets home from work, but he insisted that I should handle it. I finally agreed and told [Daughter] that I would have to be the one to spank her this day and that I was going to use a wooden spoon because my hands hurt.” Father also declared that the idea of using a spoon had been his, and had arisen from the exigency of his not coming home until “very late that evening.”
Mother declared that upon arriving home, she retrieved a wooden spoon and “gave [Daughter] around five or six spanks on the bottom, one for each thing not done and for making excuses. [Daughter] was fully clothed during the spanking. She was not crying or screaming during the spanking.” (Capitalization removed.) Family members [*7] declared unanimously that spankings had been a rarity in the family, that they had only been given in response to misbehavior, that they were never given in the heat of anger, and that they were almost always given by Father, and always with an open hand.
On the next day Daughter disclosed to some friends that she had been spanked with a wooden spoon. One of them reported, or “tricked” Daughter into reporting, the matter to school authorities. An unnamed “mandated child abuse reporter[]”—manifestly a school employee—filled out a “suspected child abuse report.” (Emphasis omitted.) Under “[i]ncident [i]nformation,” the reporter wrote, “Victim says she gets ‘smack’ by parents when she is not doing what parents are expecting from her. She said Mom hits her with a wooden spoon and Dad hits her with his hand. Last time she was hit was on 4/29/10 on her botto[m] / picture was taken.”
That fact pattern set up a clear record for the court to decide whether parents can still use spoons or other objects to discipline their students. The case turned on the state definitions of abuse, which are extremely vague. Under state law, a report is “‘[s]ubstantiated'” if the conduct reported is “determined by the investigator who conducted the investigation to constitute child abuse or neglect . . . , based upon evidence that makes it more likely than not that child abuse . . . occurred.” Since neglect was not alleged, the case turned to two definitions of abuse. First is the “‘willful harming or injuring of a child,” is defined as “willfully caus[ing] or permit[ting] any child to suffer, or inflict[ing] thereon, unjustifiable physical pain or mental suffering.” (Pen. Code, § 11165.3.) Second is the “‘unlawful corporal punishment or injury,'” is defined as “willfully inflict[ing] upon any child any cruel or inhuman corporal punishment or injury resulting in a traumatic condition.” (Pen. Code, § 11165.4.) There is a privilege recognized in California state however when “a reasonable person would find that punishment was necessary under the circumstances and that the . . . physical force used . . . was reasonable.” (CALCRIM No. 3405).
The panel faulted the trial court for refusing to consider such defenses by the mother. The panel held:
As we have said, a successful assertion of the parental disciplinary privilege requires three elements: (1) a genuine disciplinary motive; (2) a reasonable occasion for discipline; and (3) a disciplinary measure reasonable in kind and degree. . . .
The only question presenting any difficulty is whether the measure actually applied—spanking with a wooden spoon, with resulting bruises—was reasonable in kind and degree. To overlook as harmless the trial court’s failure to entertain the reasonable discipline privilege, it would have to appear as a matter of law either that a wooden spoon was an unreasonable means to administer the spanking, or that it was applied with excessive force.We cannot say that the use of a wooden spoon to administer a spanking necessarily exceeds the bounds of reasonable parental discipline. Although no published California decision addresses this issue, the Attorney General has concluded that “[i]t is not unlawful for a parent to spank a child for disciplinary purposes with an object other than the hand,” provided that “the punishment [is] necessary and not excessive in relation to the individual circumstances.” . . .
Nor do we think that the infliction of visible bruises automatically requires a finding that the limits of reasonable discipline were exceeded. Certainly the presence of lasting bruises or other marks may support a finding that a parent crossed the line between permissible discipline and reportable abuse. . . . However, such effects alone [do not compel a finding of child abuse.
In some countries, any corporal punishment is treated as presumptively abusive. With four kids, I have yet to spank any of them though I consider spanking to be an option. I simply have never found it necessary. Not because my kids are angels. They can at times be close to feral, but I have found other alternative forms of punishment like taking away electronics (which is akin to an amputation for kids today). I grew up in a house where spanking occurred but not very often. My father (who was abused as a child) rarely spanked the kids and refused (unlike many of the fathers in our building in Chicago) to use a belt or a switch or any object. He used his bare hand and the kid was left fully clothed (despite my putting a magazine in my pants on one occasion). He would only briefly spank us — generally at the suggestion of my mother for severely bad conduct. Indeed, if you said you were sorry or cried, he would stop. (I would generally start to wail upon approaching my father and achieved a record low level of spanking — an early recognition of the value of throwing oneself on the mercy of the court. My next older brother — Christopher — on the other hand was a hard case and would refuse to cry or ask forgiveness.). With five kids, my parents found the threat of corporal punishment to be useful, even if rarely used. They are viewed (by us) as highly progressive because it was common for friends to be beaten by belts or sticks when we were growing up.
What do you think? Should any corporal punishment be viewed as abuse today?
Source: Mercury News
David sez: ” Spanking does not harm the child.”
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Where do you get that information? You say it, but it is a claim I have heard from too many child abusers to count. Your claim flies in the face of an enormous body of hard science. You know, those journal articles filled with dense numbers and turgid prose. Put simply, BF Skinner proved years ago that punishment does not work and is counterproductive.
But, if you want to claim some insight or special knowledge that evaded Dr. Skinner, carry on.
OS wrote: “BF Skinner proved years ago that punishment does not work and is counterproductive. But, if you want to claim some insight or special knowledge that evaded Dr. Skinner, carry on.”
Skinner’s experiments actually proved the opposite, that punishment does work. It was just his opinion that positive reinforcement is more effective because it actually directs a person toward a desired behavior. All his methods of Operant Conditioning work. It is wrong for you to claim otherwise.
Four years before his death, when California was considering a ban on corporal punishment, Skinner wrote a letter arguing against corporal punishment in schools. He wrote something along the lines that students who are hit will avoid school, vandalize property or become apathetic. From my experience, he was clearly wrong on this, because I was paddled in school and I never avoided school, vandalized property, or became apathetic. I know many others who likewise were not affected in this way. Skinner had his experiments, which proved that punishment works, and then he had his political opinion, that positive reinforcement is better than punishment.
What about the child, David? Doesn’t the child have some rights to be free from cruel, physically harmful punishment? Certainly, you believe the unborn child has some rights, don’t you? Then why do view a child as little more than property. You wouldn’t beat a dog, especially with a piece of wood, but you’re saying it’s ok to beat a child like this? What about locking a child in a closet as punishment, you ok with that? What about a dog cage? Some parents deem that acceptable. Where do you draw the line? Or don’t you.
Surely, someone with a “background in biology” like you, is a aware of the studies that show how corporal punishment of children leads to violent, anti-social behavior, and depression later in life. Society should have a right to demand that parents not create the sociopaths, let alone the psychopaths, that require public resources to deal with. I could put it in terms of stemming the cycle of further violence, but I figure tax dollars is something you could understand.
RTC wrote: “Doesn’t the child have some rights to be free from cruel, physically harmful punishment?”
There are some forms of punishment that the child has a right to be free from, but spanking is not one of them. Spanking does not harm the child. Spanking greatly helps the child learn boundaries of right and wrong.
RTC wrote: “… why do view a child as little more than property.”
I don’t. The rights of a child, however, are subjugated to the parents, until the child comes of age and is an adult.
RTC wrote: “You wouldn’t beat a dog, especially with a piece of wood, but you’re saying it’s ok to beat a child like this?”
A dog’s anatomy is different. He has a thicker hide. However, a switch is workable with a dog, as is a rolled up newspaper.
RTC wrote: “What about locking a child in a closet as punishment, you ok with that?”
No, I am not okay with that. However, sending a child to his room for a timeout period is okay. I think timeout in the corner, however, is more harmful than a spanking.
RTC wrote: “What about a dog cage?”
Dog cage? Yeah, they are okay for dogs. Dogs love their crates.
RTC wrote: “… studies that show how corporal punishment of children leads to violent, anti-social behavior, and depression later in life.”
These studies suffer from poor experimental design and confirmation bias.
RTC wrote: “Society should have a right to demand that parents not create the sociopaths, let alone the psychopaths, that require public resources to deal with.”
Spanking does not create sociopaths. It prevents them.
“A dog’s anatomy is different. He has a thicker hide. However, a switch is workable with a dog, as is a rolled up newspaper.”
I’ve trained dogs and I’ve raised children. Curiously I never had to hit either. One can assert authority by the sound of ones voice, one’s posture and the expression on ones face. However, some need to express it violently for reasons best left to a mental health professional.
twelve is a bit old to be “spanking”. at around that age they may start hitting back. after all, it’s what they’ve been taught.
when i was in jr. high school, the shop teacher, one of the football coaches delivered discipline with a planed downed baseball bat as a paddle. a couple of days before summer vacation as i was about to receive one “lick” of discipline the coach announced to me and the rest of the class that i beat the old record of # of times busted (what we called being paddled) by five. the old record was twenty times in one year. i had twenty five. i told him i hadn’t realized he was keeping score so he showed me in the attendance book where he made a mark every time somebody got busted. i asked him who he got to count the # of marks for him.
turns out i beat the old record by six. after a while, what difference does one more make.
From the San Francisco Chronicle: “Although beating a child may amount to abuse, Rushing said, it depends on the circumstances, including whether the parent intended to inflict bruises.”
OK, so beating a child is not necessarily abuse? Assuming this is an accurate reflection of what the judge actually stated, that’s a pretty scary notion.
I wonder if there have been any domestic violence cases where, in deciding what degree the assault rose to, a court required proof that a husband *intended* to leave bruises when striking his wife. Or any child abuse cases where evidence was insisted upon to show that when a parent punched their child in the mouth, they actually intended to knock out a tooth. I do know there have been cases where parents were convicted of first-degree murder for severe physical punishment that resulted in a child’s death, despite the evident intent being only to make the child experience intense pain (e.g., Laree Slack of Illinois). So I don’t see this standard of proof as very consistent with that used for other crimes.
I’d like to know how the panel concluded that the Superior Court judge did not give “any weight to the right of a parent to impose reasonable discipline on his or her child.” Had that right not been invoked in her defense? Is it not conceivable that the SC judge *did* give weight to that right–yet did not consider this act of discipline reasonable? The panel itself says it “thinks” the infliction of bruises doesn’t necessarily disqualify a spanking as reasonable, but cites no legal basis for that position (unlike with the issue of using an object, for which they at least can cite a pronouncement by the attorney general.) It’s just their own subjective call. They give no indication of any level of severity that would necessarily satisfy the definition of abuse, and offer no additional criteria that would help settle the question in this case.
In any event, it’s hard to know what to make of the social worker’s claim to have overheard the girl say she had to strip for the punishment, contrary to what the girl testified. Did anyone think to ask her, putting this incident aside, if she had ever in the past been required to remove clothing to be spanked. If the answer was yes, is that itself grounds for investigation? Family members attest that spankings were rare, never given in anger, and always with the open hand. Were they always over clothes to their knowledge? Or was that question not asked of them?
“I am not ashamed to admit that I was the troublemaker in my family.”
Kraaken,
So. Is your hobby of pulling ships to the ocean floor and dragging sailors to a watery end a lifelong interest or just one of those awkward teenage phases? The adolescent acting out of giant cephalopod angst? Either way, I’m not sure on this, but I think that qualifies you more as a force of nature than a troublemaker. And your mom must have had a really big belt. Just sayin’.
J Brian Harris@ 11:08a.m.
I am preparing to go to Stockbridge, Massachusetts next week, to attend the Erikson Institute Fall Conference for Clinicians and Scholars, at the Austen Riggs Center.
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is that the same town of stockbridge massachusetts that has three stop signs, two police officers, and one police car?
RobinH45: “Kraaken and Digusted i too got beatings as a child. and those beatings let me know what not to do. further.”
The problem I have (and perhaps Disgusted, too) is equating a spanking with a beating. There are certainly children who suffer a true beating and that is beyond dispicable, but a smack on the butt is hardly a beating. However:
“every child is not the same. some can be yelled at and they will stop.. others can be punished and they will stop. then there are those who are going to push the envelope as far as they can go and if you don’t stop them. then you the parents end up regretting it.. wondering if you should or shouldnt have…. etc
You are entirely correct here. I am not ashamed to admit that I was the troublemaker in my family. Mom used the belt because I was bigger than she was (she was a small woman). My sister, on the other hand was one of those children who only needed to hear the word ‘No!’ or see Mom raise one eyebrow and she would straighten out her act.
David,
There is no such thing as an inalienable right for an adult to hit any child.
rafflaw wrote: “There is no such thing as an inalienable right for an adult to hit any child.”
Although the U.S. Constitution does not specifically recognize this inalienable right of parents to spank their children, it is self evident that such a right exists.
When a man and woman come together and create a life, a life that never existed before, they create also a responsibility toward that life, to care for it and to nurture it. The parents have a duty to raise that child up properly, to teach the child boundaries, to educate the child, and to instill values in that child. The parents are the immediate government of that child, and as the governing authority, they have the inalienable God-given right to use force to punish misbehavior. This is one reason why parents are held responsible for the behavior of their children when they are minors.
Just as civil government has the right to punish wrong doers, and not just the right but the duty to do so, in like manner parents have the right and duty to punish their own children who misbehave. They do not have the right to punish someone else’s children, but they have the right and duty to punish their own children.
Just as government may overstep their bounds with cruel and unusual punishment, so parents likewise might overstep their bounds. They do not have the right to do that. Nevertheless, the right to corporal punishment by parents has a very long tradition of acceptance in law, and it is, in fact, an inalienable right. No government can take away the right of parents to spank their children anymore than they can prevent free speech. To do so would be to infringe upon the smallest governmental unit established for the child. It would be worse than if the federal government told a city that they do not have the right to establish a police force for the security of the city. Only when irresponsible parents egregiously harm their children does the government have the duty to step in to protect the child from the parents. The California appeals court here got it right. The school and prosecutors got it wrong.
THe fact that this incident went to the level it did is a miscarriage of justice to the parent accused.
Robin45, I hope you don’t think this question impertinent, but is English your first language? Because if it is, I have no idea how to explain your writing style.
you have to love the judgements posted here. some say they’ve never spanked their kids, others say they did it once or twice, and then the one that says
Humans can justify anything including perpetrating violence on their children.!!!!!!
Kraaken and Digusted i too got beatings as a child. and those beatings let me know what not to do. further. im no serial killer, no longer a drug user and the drug user had to do with being gang raped. i was at the top of my classes always until that time and . i knew to respect my elders always.
there is a flyer going around now . that says mentions about growing up in the 70,80s. and early 90s and you survived then you have nothing to complain about…
one thing people seem to forget is our generation had none of the technology of today..
the kids of our generation respected their parents, elders, and each other.
so what i would like to know especially from old nurse is what exactly is the excuse for those whose parents didnt spank them. yet they became serial killers, abusers of women and children, pedophiles, murders, drug dealers, those who DO NOT KNOW HOW TO ACCEPT THE WORD NO! to name a few???
todays kids tell their parents ” ITS MY LIFE AND YOU CANT TELL ME WHAT TO DO ” had i spoken those words to my parents im sure i would have never allowed those words out my mouth again!!!!
i remember sucking my teeth at my mother one time. and she was 2 rooms away from me when i did it. the next thing i knew my mouth was bleeding from being punched in it. bet i never sucked my teeth again in the house. hell i would wait till i was 3-5 blocks away from my mother before even rolling my eyes!!!!!
teachers also had the right back then to spank us when acting up in school….
every child is not the same. some can be yelled at and they will stop.. others can be punished and they will stop. then there are those who are going to push the envelope as far as they can go and if you don’t stop them. then you the parents end up regretting it.. wondering if you should or shouldnt have…. etc
” After a few spankings, my oldest daughter taped napkins around the handle of it, saying that it was so I would not hurt my hand when I gave her a spanking. She always associated spankings as love toward her for what she did wrong.”
WOW!!!!!!!
So, there was NO other way to teach her right from Wrong????
what if she now associates punishment with love to such a degree
that she will now seek men who will punish her, as a way to
feel loved by them????
JAG wrote: “So, there was NO other way to teach her right from Wrong????”
Certainly there are other ways, but for a very young child, spanking is pretty effective.
JAG wrote: “what if she now associates punishment with love to such a degree that she will now seek men who will punish her, as a way to
feel loved by them????”
Never happened. She doesn’t seek men to punish her. She is 27 now, married, and she has a child of her own. She is the most gregarious person you can meet. She loves people and life. She has a bubbly personality that I greatly admire.
Hi Nick…. Thank you for the VERY warm welcome back…. 😀
Yes, I heard about Idealist….
It totally broke my heart…. 🙁
I had wanted to meet up with him for coffee…..
But, I was too sick…. and have been for around 3 years now….
So, I was just not in any shape to meet him….
I still think about him when I come here and read this blog….
and I REALLY miss his point of view…. 🙁
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as for Spanking…….
If I came here and told you all that my husband spanked me
because I did not do the dishes…….
YOU would ALL implore me to file Domestic
Violence Charges on him…..
and rightfully so…….
WHY do you feel different when it is a CHILD????
and to boot, a Child who is much smaller than an adult……
Being a parent and not being the child’s FRIEND I agree with….
Tho, I think you have to be BOTH….
HOWEVER,….. Just because we call Children OURS, does NOT mean that we can treat them anyway we wish, as long as it is not beating them TOO MUCH….. they are NOT our possessions…..
It was once thought perfectly fine and LEGAL to spank your wife….
Thankfully we have evolved from that era….. and it is now considered
Domestic Violence…. and even if a husband were to just spank his wife…. and most certainly if he spanked her with a wooden spoon
he would be arrested for Domestic VIOLENCE…..
Because it is a violent act……. an act where you use PHYSICAL
strength to control another human being into submission…..
as P. Smith said….. Would you be OK if you made a mistake
at work, and your boss decided to HIT YOU?????
Of course NOT……
and for those who think that spanking makes for good parenting and
that your child ended up well behaved because you spanked them….
when you spanked them, they did not respect you…. they FEARED you…. and FEAR is not respect…..
and just so you know…. my opinion on this has nothing to do with
whether I was spanked or not…. I used to LAUGH at people who used the arguments I am using here against spanking… I thought it was a perfectly OK parenting option…… Of course, since then, I have grown up and learned more about
children and psychology….. and there is just TOO many stories
of parents losing control and beating their kids……
Yes, I was spanked….. and yes, I came out OK…… However,
I did NOT come out OK because I was spanked….
I came out OK in spite of being spanked…….
My daughter is one of he
NICEST and most polite, well behaved kids I have EVER met, and EVERYBODY who meets her, has ALWAYS said the very same thing……… and aside from that ONE swat to her diapered booty, I have NEVER hit my daughter since…..
By the way…. after that ONE time I swatted her booty, I cried for
HOURS, I felt like the WORST human being in the world….. and
vowed to never spank her again….. and I held to that promise….
I think that spanking a child is the act of lazy parenting…..
there are so many ways to get a child to listen and learn respect…
I just don’t think that using violence is the way to do it……
and don’t bother saying that spanking is NOT violent…..
as I mention above, if a husband spanks a wife… it would be considered
violence….. and it should also be considered violence when a parent
spanks a child…….
Corporal punishment is very helpful to parents, and the law should recognize the inalienable right of parents to punish their children. What stood out to me in this story is how late in the child’s life they waited to spank her. That is probably the biggest problem for why their daughter disrespected them later.
Books I had read instructed me never to spank with the hand. There needed to be a punishment instrument, such as a switch or paddle, that the child recognized as such. Psychologically, this would allow the hand to be associated with love, comfort, nurturing, etc., and it also helped prevent parents from acting out of anger. I used a wooden paddle constructed for the purpose of spanking. After a few spankings, my oldest daughter taped napkins around the handle of it, saying that it was so I would not hurt my hand when I gave her a spanking. She always associated spankings as love toward her for what she did wrong.
I don’t think I have spanked any of my children once they passed the age of 10. Usually spankings would end years before that age. Spanking is effective before the rational mind has developed, but when they get older, rational thought should be used. When older, sometimes I would threaten, “do I need to give you a spanking for this?” and that is all that is needed to get them to realize the seriousness of the offense we were discussing. Then it becomes a dialogue reaching toward agreement concerning what behavior is right or wrong, and what behavior we can expect in future choices.
Here are just a few thoughts to ponder. For those who don’t see any problem with whacking your kids when they are too little to defend themselves. When you are old and infirm, it may be that same kid you have to depend on to take care of you. Feed you, wipe your butt and get your bath. Just remember that.
Some macho men want their kids to grow up to be tough, so enroll them in karate and boxing classes. I am aware of a few instances when that backfired badly, even when the kid was still in elementary school.
Finally, on handling bullies and abusers. A friend of mine, now a scientist and professor, was married to an abusive guy when she was young. Her parents had been rather authoritarian. She was conditioned to be submissive because of her upbringing, but one day she had enough. She reminded her husband she learned to shoot when she was still in grade school and, “You SOB, lay a hand on me or our child ever again, just remember I can take you out with a head shot at 300 yards.”
He never again hit either of them, but not too long after that asked for a divorce. She was no fun anymore.
emw, Not wishy washy in the least.
Valentino, The wooden spoon is used for stirring sauces w/ love. Tough love spanking, on the butt, clothed, not in anger, is a cultural norm in many Italian families. You are correct.
I got hit regularly with a wooden spoon as a child. I actually took them all out of the kitchen and broke them in half after one particularly nasty whoopin’. It definitely gets your attention, and you learn not to pull the shit you used to pull. I believe that it is up to the parent. I see plenty of brats who need an ass kicking. But the parent also has to be in control of their emotions when they are doling out the punishment. Otherwise they don’t know when to stop. How’s that for a wishy washy response?
Sicilian grandmothers and mothers have been disciplining their kids and grandkids with wooden spoons & famous Sicilian-dialectic phrases for centuries! I don’t see a problem with this case. Hopefully, the recalcitrant daughter will see the error of her ways; if not, it won’t be for lack of trying on the part of the girl’s mother. I say, send the mother more wooden spoons!
To anyone who attempts to justify the abuse of children (so-called “corporal punishment”), prove you mean it by accepting it yourself.
The next time you screw up at work, your employer gets to spank you or hit you with a wooden spoon. And you agree not to press charges.
What’s that? It shouldn’t be done to adults? It should only be done to children who don’t have the physical ability to defend themselves nor the knowledge to report such abuse? What sort of a sociopath are you that justifies the abuse of children while protecting your own hide?
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JAG (@JustAGurLnSwedn)
“MANY Child psychologists feel that spanking a child totally changes who they are and breaks them….. they feel it is very damaging to the child.”
At best (!), “corporal punishment” is torture, and at worst it is sexual abuse, especially spanking which strikes the buttocks and anal area, closely connected to the genitalia. Someone who regularly spanks children is definitely on par with a pedophile – especially when you hear reports that those meting out the beatings actually enjoy it (e.g. nuns at catholic schools in Ireland).
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/nuns-abused-hundreds-of-children-1171988.html