Two high school students at St. Anthony’s High School in Long Island have been suspended indefinitely after they walked into an after-hours sporting event wearing a Confederate flag draped over their shoulders. We recently discussed another suspension of a student involving a Confederate flag. I have the same free speech concerns in this case. The question is whether other flags would also be confiscated and the student suspended in my view. While I can certainly understand how this flag represents racism for many, others view the flag as a symbol of Southern heritage and heroism. I often see them in Virginia and recoil a bit due to the association with slavery. However, my concern is where the school is drawing the line on speech.
Brother Gary Cregan, principal of St. Anthony’s High School in South Huntington, stated that “[t]he African-American students who immediately saw it really exercised heroic restraint and fortunately a teacher immediately confiscated the flag and took the students out of the gym.” They were initially suspended for 10 days and will now be barred from returning. Cregan explained to the parents that the flag is a symbol “designed to revive past injustices or to inflame discrimination or racial intolerance, [and] is completely unacceptable and profoundly offensive.” Cregan rejected any claims that the flag represents Southern history or heritage: “I find it just very hard to even imagine why any student in 2014 would even consider or think that a Confederate flag would be anything other than a symbol of hate.” Other students supported the school and said that what matters is that some people are offended by the flag.
I find Cregan’s motives laudable and I also believe that the other students should be commended for showing restraint. However, I am unclear as to the rule applied in this case? Would the school have reacted the same way with a Soviet flag or a Chinese flag or other flags that are viewed any many to represent oppressive histories? How about a rainbow flag viewed immoral by some or an Israeli or Palestinian flag that would inflame contemporary passions? I can understand a ban on any flags or posters at sporting events, but the selection of some symbols raises question of content-based censorship. The flag clearly (and understandably) represents slavery and racism to many. However, it also represents different things to different people. Respected scholars like Civil War historian Shelby Foote have noted that the flag traditionally represented the South’s resistance to Northern political dominance. As discussing in PBS interview, he was sensitive to how many of his friends viewed it as a symbol of racism but he did not share that view. Others view it as a symbol of state’s rights or Southern culture or opposition to speech codes or politically correct sentiments. The point is that, if some flags are allowed, there are a variety of symbols that are viewed as offensive by different groups.
The school is not a state school and thus not subject to the limitation of the First Amendment. Yet, that does not mean that it should engage in arbitrary limitations on speech. I went to the website and I could not find any published rules of conduct. The question is whether there is a rule addressing after-hours events. If the rule is not clear, the question is whether it should be made more explicit as to any and all such symbols — and whether it is fair to suspend the students indefinitely. Teenagers do stupid things and I would not be surprised if this was an effort to get a rise out of everyone. However, in the official statement below, the school does not quote or cite the rule used against the students.
What also concerns me is the reference to punish two students who “blatantly disregarded the principal’s request to discontinue the use of social media to inflame discrimination in the school community by displaying an inappropriate picture and comment.” The school simply states that “These students have been appropriately acted upon.” I fail to see why a school should attempt to censor or block students in discussing this controversy — and disagreeing with the school’s actions. Even if you are comfortable with suspending the boys with the flag, these students appear to be engaging in pure debate over the merits of the rule and the response of the school. The school states “As a Catholic and Franciscan school, Saint Anthony’s will always demand acceptance and respect for all races, religions and cultures.” However, the school should also demand tolerance for different views and the protection of free speech for both its students and faculty. Ordering students not to discuss a controversy (and perhaps not challenging the school’s actions) will do little to quell the controversy. What it will do is to force the debate into the shadows will it will fester and deepen. Declaring “thou shalt not disagree” will not produce agreement — only forced silence. [There are reports that two students may have worn black face in messages on the social media. While there remains the issue of the regulation of after-hours, out-of-school communications, that is obviously a very disturbing matter. However, the general order not to discuss the controversy on social media on the issue remains highly problematic.]
The Confederate flag has not been treated in the federal courts as a form of hate speech and continues to appear in a wide variety of public locations and private displays. Ironically, for some of those students on social media, this controversy may make the flag a symbol of self-expression or resisting compelled speech codes.
What do you think? Was indefinite suspension and the bar on social media discussions warranted in this case?
DATE: April 16, 2014
RE: Confederate flag incident
From: Brother Gary Cregan, OSF, principal,
Saint Anthony’s High School, Huntington, NY
On the evening of Wednesday, April 9, 2014 at Saint Anthony’s High School, Huntington, NY, during a supervised intramural European Handball game with multiple teams, a small number of students displayed a symbol of hate – the Confederate Flag. Upon entering the gym, the flag was confiscated by faculty moderators, and the students were told to leave the property.The two individuals who were responsible for bringing the flag to school, and for wearing it into the gym, were immediately given a long term suspension the next day. After further discussion and consultation, it became necessary to impose additional disciplinary action. In addition, two other students blatantly disregarded the principal’s request to discontinue the use of social media to inflame discrimination in the school community by displaying an inappropriate picture and comment. These students have been appropriately acted upon.
Saint Anthony’s is committed to addressing the issue of racial intolerance with faculty, students and parents through education, awareness and dialogue in an ongoing basis. The use of any symbol, either historic or current, which carries a meaning designed to revive past injustices, or to inflame discrimination or racial intolerance is completely unacceptable and profoundly offensive. As a Catholic and Franciscan school, Saint Anthony’s will always demand acceptance and respect for all races, religions and cultures.
# # #
Contact:
Christina Buehler
Director of Communications
E-mail: cbuehler@stanthonyshs.org
Source: CBS
Hi Annie:
“Karen, do you really think low wage workers don’t work hard? As a nurse I worked with inner city, grown women with children who routinely worked double shifts as CNAs just to get by.”
I’ve read and re-read my posts, and cannot figure out how you came to the conclusion that I think low wage workers don’t work hard. I have had periods in my life where I was struggling and poor, surviving on Mac N Cheese and carrots. At one point I worked 3 jobs. What I said was that minimum wage jobs are supposed to be entry level, where unskilled workers gain experience. It was never intended to be able to support a family of 5 in a middle class lifestyle.
Karen S – logic escapes some people on this thread.
Paul,
You’re talking about eliminating worker unemoyment and dumbing down the children….. Just part of the mantra in which you speak…. You see Karl Rove has already stated that his party can’t compete with educated folks……
Paul,
It just part of the mantra you speak….. Just because it’s not said does not mean you don’t think it….. And btw how exactly am I off topic when the thread is about a flag, school function and racism….. Explain please?
AY – You were talking about the old and infirm being put to death, how is that NOT off topic?
People come to this country from all over the world. They risk their lives to come to this country. Because they KNOW if you work hard and smart you can prosper. As my immigrant Uncle Charlie would always say to me, “The harder you work the luckier you get.”
Help please. I had a comment eaten.
Paul,
Your rant scares me….. I suppose the old and infirm should be taken care of by family or put to death……
AY – it is NOT a rant. And how do you get sooooo of topic?
of = off
Karen, do you really think low wage workers don’t work hard? As a nurse I worked with inner city, grown women with children who routinely worked double shifts as CNAs just to get by. It was difficult backbreaking, often thankless work. They were willing to work hard, yet because the wage was so low never got ahead as every penny was spent for the necessities of life. No trips to Europe, no second vacation home, no expensive tuition for either themselves or their children. My son in law, the manufacturer who uses cheap China labor to be able to afford two homes, one of which was paid for in cash and who can afford multiple family vacations to numerous foreign countries, told me once In a discussion about poverty, that folks have a choice, “work smart or work hard”. Working smart must entail using very low wage workers.
For many those low wage jobs, DESPITE hard work does not move them along in a meritocrtous system. Very few of the CNAs I worked with went on to nursing school because they were already swamped working long hours as CNAs, again to have the necessities, not the luxuries. Where I live I see many people who have never really associated socially or in an employment situation with other people that are black or Hispanic. They are cocooned in their suburban homes. Their children don’t have a clue about the lives of children in the inner city unless their parents or church encourages them to volunteer in some feeding program, womens shelter, etc. My own grandchildren were told by myself (and minimally by my daughter and son in law) how some other children live and just how privileged and lucky they really are. I love my daughter and son in law, but like so many of their socioeconomic circle they think they work harder, work smarter and are mor ‘desrving’. I’ve seen it with my own eyes for many years now and it’s not the ‘American way’, there simply is not a system in place that makes hard work meritorious to all.
Democrats recognize and do encourage hard work and education, Republicans seem to think they have the market on this notion, which is fallacious.
Karen:
You are correct in your observations regarding small business. Plus, it often doesn’t end with some political movements.
Washington has the highest statutory minimum wage of all the states. As of January 2014 it was raised to $9.32 an hour. There began a movement now that despite the minimum raise being the highest, now it is claimed that is not enough. Sea-tac passed a $15.00 minimum wage. Seattle is looking at it. After the Sea-tac ordinance passed two large hotel chains decided to halt their plans to construct two large hotels in the city. That prevented the hiring of a few hundred workers for the staffing of those hotels, not to mention the loss of construction jobs. Prices have increased in Sea-Tac for consumers. In fact, there are other businesses that are a block or two outside the city and have, if employees are paid $10.00 per hour, a 50% lower labor cost than their Sea-Tac competitors. Existing businesses where this has happened do have to chose how to mitigate labor costs, they will use the combination of layoffs and efficiency requirements (more work for existing workers) to make up for the cost difference. Lower wage jobs are typcially those where there is a need for many workers so labor becomes a large part of their total cost of doing business. Those will be the ones that will get hit hard. Also large corporations will have an even greater comparative advantage to small or family owned businesses because the corporation can derive cost cuts elsewhere or spread the cost of labor to other cost centers in other states.
I also find it a little irritating on how businesses are regarded as being evil because they want profit but ordinary workers are understandably lauded for having income. Profit is to companies what earned income is to private citizens. Extremely few numbers of individuals would work their entire lives for no income. But the same is expected by many of companies. Without an income for companies there is no incentive whatever to do business. If companies do not make a profit or forsee one the consider acceptable in the future, they close shop.
Simple solutions are usually not simple or solutions.
If Democrats were so hot to encourage hard work, they would cut off the extension of unemployment and welfare, plus they would push for charter schools. I see neither of these happening. Democrats talk the talk, but they do not walk the walk. They want the system to be fair, but life is not fair and there is no reason the system should be fair.
I started my second life with no job, no place to stay, $2 in my pants pocket and just the clothes on my back (and the jeans were two sizes too big). I went from there to the comfortable retirement I have now. I have lived through Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs. However, I did learn to work very hard to get ahead at each job and sometimes it was both working harder and working smarter that got me up the next rung of the ladder. Last job I had, they hired me during the phone interview. Never saw them in person until I showed up. At that job I ended up with two jobs because of my hard work and the high quality of my work. One during regular business hours and one I worked on in the car during the commute (my wife was driving).
So, paying the CNAs more as a minimum wage will mean, since they are on the bottom rung, that at least one of them or more, depending on the rise in minimum wage, will be looking for another job.
Now, if the nurses had been willing to take a pay cut that would have been given to the CNAs, then there would have been a fairness in your system, but you expect someone else to pay for them, the hospital (and ultimately the patient and their insurance carrier) it is not coming out of your pocket.
Here, in Maricopa County, AZ, we have part-time nursing colleges, designed for people who work full-time. It takes twice as long to get through, but you can work a 40 hour week and still get your nursing degree. So, Arizona thinks about the fairness you are talking about.
There were kids involved in incident reported at the gym. This was sent by adults to throw gasoline on the fire.
http://nypost.com/2014/04/17/bizarre-menacing-civil-war-taunt-kicks-off-new-soccer-rivalry/
Scott – I didn’t talk about “lazy black drug addicts.” It was proposed that the racist Republican Party destroyed black communities and incarcerated young black men. I addressed the statistically significant highest risk factors for incarceration – having a single mom and/or foster care.
Skin color is an evolutionary balance between optimal Vitamin D production and protection from UV rays.
Karen – you are just going to confuse everyone if you insist on being logical. 🙂
Scott – I’m not a hater. I don’t wish ill on anyone. I’m pretty new to following the blog, too.
It’s interesting to hear everyone’s point of view.
Happy Easter and Passover everyone. Enjoy the weekend.
Just when I think I’m out, they drag me back in.
“Kind of unheard of these days.”
Really? How disingenuous. Clinton cut taxes. Obama extending, making a big chunk of the stimulus lower end tax cuts… I guess tax cuts only count if they’re for the rich, though, eh? And taxes were really high when Kennedy took office. Much easier to lower them when they’re up high to pay off a war.
Another novel idea that your party apparently is not familiar with.
But, gee, if the Progressive’s Better Off Budget and it’s tax increases on the rich (supported by big majorities) scares you that much, after 33 years of trickle down economics stealing the productivity increases from the median wage, then you’re just going to have to be scared.
Scott:
Why are marijuana laws racist against Mexicans? I have never heard that before.
Hi Scott:
My husband is a small business owner, and we have other business owners in the family. Let me explain, from our perspective, the pros and cons of increasing minimum wage beyond inflation.
Let’s hypothetically increase minimum wage to $10/hour. Well, now the people who already made $10/hour are being paid minimum wage. And they say, wait, how come I have more experience and I’m being paid the same as the entry level guy? Now EVERYONE else needs a commensurate raise, by the same amount, to keep it a fair meritocracy. (Typically, people get raises based on skill set, experience, and performance.)
Now, no magic money tree has sprung up overnight for the employer. His budget is the same. And now his employee costs just went up significantly. He only has these choices – lay off employees, reduce hours, contract his business to a smaller size, increase the costs of his goods and services, or take a pay cut himself. For some businesses, especially small businesses, the owner does not have a very big profit margin already.
For every action, there is a reaction . . . an effect.
For those who got a raise to $10/hour and KEPT their job, they are better off. For those who got laid off or had their hours reduced, they are worse off.
Now here is where Democrats and Republicans fundamentally diverge. Democrats want to reduce income inequality through redistribution. Work hard, don’t work hard, make good choices and stay in school, make bad choices and drop out of school . . . it’s all the same. Everyone should make the same amount of money no matter how hard they work. What they fail to do is measure the net result of their efforts. How many times has the minimum wage significantly increased? And yet we still have poverty.
Republicans state the obvious: minimum wage was never intended to support a family of 5 in a middle class lifestyle. It is intended to be the first rung on the ladder of success, a chance to learn job skills. The vast majority of minimum wage earners get a raise within the first year. The kid frying burgers is supposed to make less than the manager.
An employer gives a teenager with zero job skills a chance with a minimum wage job, from which he can work his way up.
The best way to lower income inequality is to give people a job and a chance for upward mobility. It is exciting to be able to work hard and achieve prosperity, something that was impossible in caste and class societies.
Think about it. If minimum wage increased to $100 an hour, how many employees could you afford to hire? $1,000 an hour? These large hypothetical increases make it obvious what too large a jump will cause.
“Scott, the interview was not with Bob Herbert. It was with Alexander Lamis. ”
Fair enough, David, I stand corrected. Working fast off memory at this point.
I do have time to say, however, that I look forward to you addressing all the points I’ve made which you have, so far, ignored.
If I’m going to take the trouble to go through Gish Gallops, I should at least be given acknowledgement for my work.
Happy Holiday.
David: “I am unsurprisingly a member of both the Tea Party and the GOP.”
Those are different things?
Seriously. Gotta go guys. Keep talking. Tell us about lazy black drug addicts and what not Karen. Be sure to avoid casting aspersions on the asparagus of 2/3rds of America’s poor, the rural whites.
Scott, the Tea Party has a lot of libertarians and independents. Not too many Democrats.
I may have a falling out with the Republican party based upon some recent dust ups over immigration. I will stay with the Tea Party though.
Supak – when you buy votes, you buy votes. Evolve my ass!!!
Scott, the interview was not with Bob Herbert. It was with Alexander Lamis. Herbert was an obsessive who simply quoted the interview like six times over four year period.
You can listen to the entire interview here:
http://www.thenation.com/article/170841/exclusive-lee-atwaters-infamous-1981-interview-southern-strategy#
Prior to that quote you gave is when Atwater says that racism was not an issue in Reagan’s election.
Quoting Lee Atwater:
=================
So what you have is two things happening that totally washed away the Southern strategy, the Harry Dent type Southern strategy, and that is, that whole strategy was based, although it was more sophisticated than a Bilbo or a George Wallace, it was nevertheless based on coded racism. The whole thing, busing, we want a Supreme Court judge that won’t have busing, anything you look at can be traced back to the issue [of race], in the old southern strategy. It was not done in a blatantly discriminatory way.
But Reagan did not have to do a southern strategy for two reasons. Number one, race was was not a dominant issue. And number two, the mainstream issues in this campaign had been, quote, southern issues since way back in the sixties. So Reagan goes out and campaigns on the issues of economics and of national defense. The whole campaign was devoid of any kind of racism, any kind of reference. And I’ll tell you another thing you all need to think about, that even surprised me, is the lack of interest, really, the lack of knowledge right now in the South among white voters about the Voting Rights Act.
=================
If you notice in the quote you offer, he places the date as 1968 for when this “Southern Strategy” of Harry Dent was used. It was used from the mid 1960’s and into the 1970’s. By Reagan’s time, racism was no longer an issue in elections according to Atwater. Listen to the entire interview of visit the link that I offered you previously.
Now I really am going to take a break. I think we all need it. I really don’t want to add to Jonathan’s policing job over a holiday weekend.
I gotta get going, but I see Karen S has some exit polls for Dredd. Funny.
Who’s the latest target group of the GOP hate mongers? You know, the guys who say all the horrible things about gay people being child rapists and bestiality enthusiasts? The sodomite stoners? You know who I’m talking about Karen?
Yeah, gay people are the latest target for the denial of civil rights. And guess what?
Of non-gay voters, Romney and Obama were tied. Yep. Tied. 49% of straight people voted for Romney, and 49% voted for Obama.
76% of gay people voted for Obama.
So, please, tell me about gay people, Karen. What kind of rights should they have?
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/15/gay-vote-seen-as-crucial-in-obamas-victory/
Karen, LBJ called it The War on Poverty. Black folk lost the war.
We do know that David does care for homosexuals….. That they are pretty much degenerates…… As far as peeing on homeless folks…. I’m sure that there are some that would….. Tsk, tsk…..