Do Monkeys Reject Unequal Pay?

By Darren Smith, Weekend Contributor

capuchin-monkey-in-leavesA vital question of social equality was tested recently before the scientific community. Do monkeys accept the social justice issue of equal pay?

We have uncovered an experiment that shows quite conclusively the answer to this question.

Video below the fold…

By Darren Smith

The views expressed in this posting are the author’s alone and not those of the blog, the host, or other weekend bloggers. As an open forum, weekend bloggers post independently without pre-approval or review. Content and any displays or art are solely their decision and responsibility.

219 thoughts on “Do Monkeys Reject Unequal Pay?”

  1. Nick,

    What is a feminist? I have never fully figured that one out.

  2. Without the original feminists the young women of today wouldn’t be as assertive as they are. In one breath some people denigrate feminists, young AND old, in the other breath they brag on the accomplishments of young women today. 30 years ago our daughters wouldn’t be where they are today and today young women aren’t as far as they could be, if it weren’t for the instructionaled sexism. So some don’t understand that the ” old” feminists paved the way. Blind ignorance.

  3. BFM, I said the same as you earlier about our daughter’s generation. They get it. And, Title 9 has helped, having them learning how to compete, and like it.We have only the original feminists here, as far as I can tell. I often hope young women and men would join this blog. I hoped Jonathan’s students might chime in, but that hasn’t happened as far as I can see. We’ve gotten more diversity here, but we have a long way to go.

  4. Mhj,

    Trust me the truth is better. Less stress, less chance if stroke. Please do as you said. I am sure someone you know would take you to the hospital. Tell me you address and I am sure I could have an emergency team respond. That I promise.

  5. BFM, Science has become politicized. They get funding for the correct results. They are bought by corporations and government. It is APPALLING and does not bode well for making informed decisions on facts, not feelings.

  6. Thanks for the remarks, Nick. Congratulations to your daughter. The succeeding generation is often even tougher and better adapted than the first, so I am pretty sure she will do just fine.

  7. Darren has posted 2 very interesting and thought provoking pieces today.

  8. BFM, The most recent studies have been conducted on recent graduates[aforementioned Huffpo reference up thread], male and female, first jobs out of college. I’ve not seen any marriage data but certainly the vast majority are unmarried. Women still take the first offers 5-8 times more than men. If you start out lower because of timidity you’re playing catch up. And as I said, many HR people are women. They know women, and give them lower offers, knowing they’ll take them. Just like women waiters can pick out the crappy women tippers, and there are a lotta them! This isn’t playing Candyland, this is the real world. My daughter was given an offer by her employer. She gave an alternative, 7k more or a Roth IRA matching contribution for her contributions up to 7k. Her employer took the latter, both are happy. I knew my daughter was going to do fine when we took her to the Bahamas when she was 12. We went to a market and she was arguing, bargaining, for trinkets. The Bahamian women loved it, as did my daughter. Maybe this weak kneed Ivy League women need to go to 3rd world markets and learn how to be tough.

    1. Elaine – that is as specific as I am going to get right now. Couple of hours earlier I would have looked for them. But you are a capable researcher so I know you can find them.

  9. bfm – had not heard about problems duplicating studies except where there was some kind of fraud involved.

    1. I did not document when I read about difficulties replicating scientific studies. But I just Googled ‘problems replicating studies’ and there are more than a few articles beginning with the Economist and including APA, Nature, The Boston Globe, Salon.

      I am no scientist but I would guess there are some real concerns about the institution of science or maybe there is an echo chamber – don’t even get me started.

  10. Paul,

    Can you be more specific about those studies? Who,conducted the studies? When were they conducted? What were the sizes of the populations studied?

    1. Elaine – I am not sure which studies you are talking about? I have been on here for about 13 hours and have written about several different studies.

  11. Mr Keebler

    After reading your last post, I think you may want to take the following test>

    Signs of a Stroke

    FACE: Ask your loved one to smile. Does one side of his or her face droop?
    ARMS: Ask your loved one to raise both arms. Does one arm drift downward?
    SPEECH: Ask your loved one to repeat a simple phrase. Does his or her speech sound slurred or strange?
    TIME: Time is crucial. Call 9-1-1 immediately if you or your loved one has any of these symptoms.

  12. Dredd – as more an more stuff comes out on the problems with fraud in science I am losing faith in science and scientist. I get a ScienceDaily and almost every day there is some new study that overturns a study from last week. I am horrified that Michael Mann is allowed to hide the climate data so that no one can duplicate his supposed conclusions. We are supposed to take it on faith.

  13. Paul Schulte

    Dredd – I would say you were mixing metaphors but you are mixing goodness knows what. I know Stockholm Syndrome exists because I saw it happen when a gunman took over a local tv newcast and they continued the broadcast until the man was arrested. The newscaster was upset that the police knocked the kidnapper to the ground and then cuffed him. He had bonded with him. Classic Stockholm Syndrome.
    Like me, you only know that through the work of scientists, because they study such behavior –if only to classify it.

    Then later delve into it in search of solutions and understandings.

    It takes good scientific methods to competently navigate the waters of cognition, so I am comfortable calling them scientists.

    It is a much better profession, these days anyway, than being a politician.

    So respect the science those professionals develop, by studying it while following your interests, and then criticize it.

    Cause it exists.

  14. I once worked for a very large corporation that used to check with the manager of a woman’s husband to see how much money he made before giving the woman a raise. She was not allowed, as a matter of company practice, to make as much, or heaven forbid more than, her husband.

  15. Paul Schulte

    bettykath – there have been some studies done on playing children and girls are more likely to make sure that everyone shares equally, but the boys play for keeps.
    Exactly. What I said in my first (iirc) post on this thread: women tend to work cooperatively and men tend to work competitively. I think men would appreciate the cooperative environment if they took the time to understand it and were willing to let everyone have an equitable share.

    1. bettykath – I, on the other hand, think that women would benefit from learning to play to win. Guys play to win and then they generally get over it. Women are different. They are competitive by nature, they just hide it. They compete with each other over who got the best deal, who has the best boy friend, who has the best house, who has the best car, etc. They just don’t admit they are competing. They just need to admit it. 🙂

  16. Paul Schulte

    Dredd – symbolic racism does not exist, the science behind it is as phony as the data that Michael Mann is hiding. Social sciences are neither social or a science.
    I know that is your Baptist mantra, but how do you know all that “Stockhold Syndrome” stuff you said up-thread if it is not reputable?

    1. Dredd – I would say you were mixing metaphors but you are mixing goodness knows what. I know Stockholm Syndrome exists because I saw it happen when a gunman took over a local tv newcast and they continued the broadcast until the man was arrested. The newscaster was upset that the police knocked the kidnapper to the ground and then cuffed him. He had bonded with him. Classic Stockholm Syndrome.

  17. The usefulness for some of the advice for women in regard to wages given here seems to depend on the assumption that the negotiating position of women is similar to that of men.

    That certainly is not true in an historical sense and I doubt that it is true today. In the past women were hired into pink collar worker ghettos. Women still find in harder to enter and advance in certain professions.

    In the past women were regularly paid less because it was believed there wages were less necessary for the well being of the family. I don’t have the stats to prove it, but I would bet that historical women’s work is still underpaid when compared to other similar work. In effect wage patterns have a memory. People in the field fine it difficult to negotiate for wages above the pattern because offers are typically tied to what the individual has earned in the past. People entering the field find it difficult to negotiate for wages above the pattern because of competition from those field.

    These days, women are frequently the families only wage owner. When you link that to the fact that women are frequently the parent with child custody it is not hard to see that women’s opportunities for job search and position in negotiation are likely compromised.

    I am not sure how to quantify the situation but it seems to me likely that women have far less power in wage negotiations than men with similar education and experience.

    Don’t take the first offer makes perfect sense unless the rent is due and your not sure if the open balance in you checking will buy a weeks groceries and you are pretty sure that the next offer is going to be about the same as the last one.

    But I have always found monkeys very impressive. They seem to have difficult with symbolic language which suggest they might have difficulty with first semester calculus. But that puts them about equal to most freshmen.

    Aside from that I think they usually come out ahead in most standardize tests.

    1. bfm – I think some studies have shown that in comparable jobs, women are making the same money as men, except in a few places. Politics is one of them.

      1. “some studies have shown that in comparable jobs, women are making the same money as men, except in a few places.”

        Well that is good news. As for politics, I think the sooner we reduce salaries for senators and congressmen to minimum wage the better we will all be. Their health insurance should be Medicaid and to help make up some of the difference we ought to issue them uniforms – comfortable garage man shoes, blue pants with pocket Tee’s and their first name stenciled on the pocket.

        Of course that would give some of our representatives even greater incentive to kowtow to the lobbyist – which is why political contributions would go into a blind trust to be distributed to the appropriate campaign committee by an impartial trustees.

        Now I know that sounds a little radical, but that seems the best we can do till we get some of those fair minded monkeys trained up and ready to assume the reins of power.

        BTW, have you been reading some of the reports about increasing difficulty replicating scientific studies – not fraud but difficulty with many studies. What’s up with that. Isn’t replication, the ability to reproduce results, sort of the foundation of science.

        Well I think it is about time for me to take some of that herbal extract which probably has about as much chance of working as the prescription I’m supposed to take – if you believe the FDA when it claims it is safe and effective.

        1. Elaine – I didn’t grab them when i saw them but they are probably only a couple of months old. You should be able to find them without too much trouble. I am starting to wear out and need a nap. 🙂

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