Various media outlets are reporting the latest outrage from Sharia courts. Iranian authorities have reportedly executed Mohsen Amir-Aslani, 37, for allegedly “insulting” the prophet Jonah and accused him of committing adultery. For that exercise of free speech and freedom of religion, a Sharia court had him hanged.
Amir-Aslani was arrested nine years ago for what is described in the Guardian article as “making innovations in Islam and providing his own interpretations of the Qur’an.” He was later accused of insulting prophet Jonah and having sex outside marriage.
Leila, his wife, said that the court declared his religious views as “spreading corruption on earth” and denounced “innovations in the religion.”
The specific charge regarding Jonah is based on his simple observation that the story of Jonah, which appears in Chapter 10 of the Qur’an, is “symbolic.” The Sharia court viewed that as insulting since Muslims believe that he was swallowed by a fish and imprisoned before he “glorified Allah” and repented for his actions.
The charge of illicit sex with people in his classes was added later and one can only imagine what officials may have done to his students and associates to support such a charge.
Human rights groups have charged that Iran’s ministry of intelligence was behind Amir-Aslani’s arrest. The case was given to a notorious judge, Abolghassem Salavati, who is known for denying basic rights and consistently ordering executions.
It is telling that these “judges” are so fearful of “innovation” or commentary on their religion. Such disgraceful executions only serve leave the impression of men who are insecure about the viability of their faith in the modern world or its ability to withstand commentary. The destructive legacy of these Sharia courts continues to mount as various Muslim countries disguises blind religious Orthodoxy and intolerance as forms of “law.” Salavati is not a judge in any plausible interpretation of that word. Likewise, this is no more of a “court” than was the tribunals of the Spanish inquisition. These atrocities will continue until the Muslim world embraces the concept of separation of mosque and state and rejects such crimes as apostasy.
RIP Mohsen Amir-Aslani
There the wicked cease from troubling, and there the weary be at rest.
Job, 3. 17
Source: Guardian
Knowledge and Wisdom are two different things
happypappies – wisdom is knowledge plus experience. Experience comes from making mistakes. The more mistakes the wiser you can be. 🙂
Po (et al infinitum) said … The key,as is mentioned above, is “knowledge and wisdom.”
I am sorry , but I don’t understand that definition. I must be a Muslim scholar to have the “key”, which is amorphous …how egalitarian of that professed faith?
I live among thousands of Muslims and have never heard of any “key” to understanding the texts. On the contrary they try hard to be explicit to me. I respect that, disagree or otherwise. I find the rest of this nonsense dishonest in the nth degree. Please understand, that as much as I want to recover from it, I am still of the mind set that says “kill them all and let G-d sort them out.”
I’d really like to be convinced otherwise.
Show me the way.
I am not Po but didn’t you just say you were a reluctant Christian? “Kill them all and let G-d sort them out” So, is that “Gods will”? God loves everyone. God doesn’t kill, Men do. Men have the insane blind lustful rages and you are putting it all on one type of people. Unbelievable. Do you partition your head or what?
Clarification: Professor Turley focuses on Sharia Law and human rights violations. I’m fairly certain he doesn’t condem all of Islam and Po is correct JT seems to be careful to be respectful.
Good points, Annie. Po
happypappies…just about the time I am willing to engage you, even agree on some issues, you go off on some tangent of moral equivalences. Why?
What we did during Jim Crow is rather old (I am old enough to have been in the midst of it in all of of its ugliness) but the ISIS threat today, as they expound it, not as well believe it, is far more current…and far more ugly.
Do I need to post photos (stills) of the current ISIS/ISIL atrocities to get attention? I have them from a Polish news outlet…they are too gross to simply post on point here. If you’ve not seem them, email me and I’ll forward them…that goes for anyone interested. My email is in my profile. I’ll know the true interest by the volume of requests I receive.
I really believe that all of us here, however we oppose each other, are on the same basic page none-the-less. Hell, I even agree with “Annie” on deploying troops to the ME now (a pox on me forever, right?!)..no, and hell no, period… I am just very tired of war…it has been extant my entire 72 year life. I tried to find a year or two where we weren’t at war with someone…and I failed to find one.
But make no mistake, if terror arrives here, either emigrant or locally fostered, I will fight, and I will kill those who might attack me or my family. My daughter is in Italy now, and soon boards a boat to Greece, for cruise and a week in Grecian locales. I’ve never feared for her safety before…but I do now. She is too close to the belly of the beast. Meantime I will tell her I love the fun she’s having and to have as much as she can…Greece is a wonderful place to visit and explore. While my gut is in a knot.
Aridog – seriously – do you want to know seriously????? You probably won’t like it much. I married 4 times. The first 3 Weeelllll They were a tad violent for me. I don’t like getting beat up and raped so they could get excited, Most of my friends stayed in those marriages and pretended it didn’t happen. Some had happy marriages. I had lots of girlfriends whose fathers raped them on a regular basis. How do I know this? Because my mother was not right and when there is a problem in the family, kids know like radar and are drawn together. The statistics are 1 in 3 girls are molested by their Fathers. Facts are not pretty. I believe the Muslims prefer to have Polygamy so as to prevent this sort of thing and cover their women up. idk maybe there is something to it. Not saying there is or anything. Western Girls just wanna have fun ya know. It’s just our right Right??? And men are supposed to control themselves the world over.
happypappies – I think your statistics are a little high.
Paul – I think you are in denial – Denial extended to other areas of life as well. In the early 1900s doctors refused to believe that the cases of gonorrhea and syphilis they saw in young girls could have been caused by sexual abuse. Instead, they reasoned, girls could get these diseases from toilet seats, a myth that terrified generations of mothers and daughters. In the 1950s, psychiatrists dismissed incest reports as Oedipal fantasies on the part of children. Spousal rape was legal throughout the period, and wife beating was not taken seriously by authorities. http://www.stephaniecoontz.com/articles/article10.htm
happypappies – your article, though interesting, does not answer my question.
Paul – Do your seriously think you are going to get accurate statistics?? That is what the article was supposed to show you. No one is going to be honest with you. I will. I know. I grew up with these girls. Most were Catholic in Blue Collar Neighborhoods. It was very sad. Really. You weren’t supposed to practice birth control and there were so many children per family. Dad would be outside sucking down some Stag beer and Mom would be inside. This happened in Protestant Families also trust me I have a friend right now who has confessed to me and her 2nd husband did the same to her girls and she had a Father and Step Father who did it to her. She gave up by the time it was the Stepfather and just submitted and got out of the house asap.
Anyway, I am getting sidetracked. they would give me detailed like Dad would give me fifty cents for oral and they would cry. This was in 1968. I had to ask what it was. Poor little baby. She did it to protect sisters. And she wasn’t the only one of my friends. I kept running into them. I told you where I lived. Well, not you but you saw the post. It got where I considered myself fortunate because my Daddy never laid a hand on me.
So, I can’t give you a statistic. That is what my very hurt 67 year old Friend told me. I imagine since she works in a Hospital as a Lab Assistant she is intuitive about it because she is not given to lying. The statistics they give now days is 1 in 11 which is still ridiculous. Don’t you think?
happypappies – my only problem was I thought the statistic of 1 in 3 was a little high.
Well, Paul, idk, from where I was, it seemed like one in 2 – I just said it because of what my friend said. But I am sorry that I reacted formataaaaated on you lol
on 1, October 2, 2014 at 12:40 ampo
“Karen. surely you do not need to attach yourself to prof Turley. You are not saying the same thing and not in the same way. He takes great pain (often)to point out that specificity of the behavior to the extremist bent, while you make it sound as if Islam, in general, is the problem.”
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EXACTLY what I’ve been saying about Karen’s penchant for MISCHARACTERIZING other’s comments! She does this so often I’m no longer shocked. How she can possibly think JT’s posts on Sharia Law reflects hers is beyond understanding.
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“Finally, that is the fallacy that keeps giving…”why don’t you denounce the horrors that Muslims commit?”. Karen, I denounce those on my own time, my own blog, my own twitter feed, unprompted.
I also denounce those who tend to demonize a whole people based on the actions of a few. Whenever Prof Turley posts one of these, I know to come back and defend my faith from the extremism of your comments AND worse yet, from your claim to know what you are talking about.
I know better than to make Timothy MCVEigh or the abortion doctors murderers speak for you, so do not make ISl and its ilk speak for me.”
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Hear Hear Po!
Annie – it is nice of of you to be supportive of Po but you realize that Po really did not answer the question that was asked of him. He deflected it.
Ari
Yes, as I pointed out, Po is po@minutebol who is mondemom…sometimes WP fills it out for me, sometimes it locks me out and I have to post from my email…hence the various names.
Ari’s key was just in reference to your request for an explanation, surely I know I am the one who mentioned it first. The key,a is mentioned above, is knowledge and wisdom. The more time and study one devotes to anything, the more able they are to unlock its mysteries. Quite simple.
Karen. surely you do not need to attach yourself to prof Turley. You are not saying the same thing and not in the same way. He takes great pain (often)to point out that specificity of the behavior to the extremist bent, while you make it sound as if Islam, in general, is the problem. Your quoting Ayaan Ali further confirms it as she is not just calling for islamic reform, she is calling for the obliteration of islam altogether, and speaks of it as you do, as this violent, horrific thing that has no redeeming qualities.
Also, as a non- muslim, you could not do the hajj. It requires visas that are only given to muslims.
Karen says:
As a Muslim, what is your opinion on the fact that if anyone draws a cartoon of the Prophet, a criticizes him in any way, Muslims around the globe go into homicidal rages?
None of the moderate American Muslims I’ve known would ever do that, and Christians certainly don’t do that. And yet, in Muslim-majority countries, it is the reaction, every single time.
Well, the Prophet during his times was subjected to worse offenses that cartoons being drawn of him. He expressly prohibited his companions from killing a man who disrespected him. How many of the billions of Muslims around the globe protested the cartoons? How many did so violently? Even fewer? And yet those are the ones you point the finger at and assign the duty to speak for the rest?
Muslim majority countries? Well, has it happened in Indonesia? In Senegal? Even in Saudi Arabia? In quatar? In Jordan?
By the way, Happy answered the shariah issue better that I could, and in a much clearer and objective manner than you could. There currently are shariah councils in Britain,…have you heard of anyone being decapitated…stoned…? Anytime muslims go their local imam or to a group of islamic scholars for a ruling about a situation, that is essentially a shariah court, whether about inheritance, divorce, marriage, counseling… SO wherever 100 muslims are, it is very likely that 2 of them would seek out a third for a ruling on a matter. So there are shariah courts all over the place, in every islamic community, just as there are Christians who would seek out their pastor’s opinion on some issues rather than the courts.
It is quite obvious that the countries where shariah law stones people and cuts hands and the like are countries where the population has little say on the system under which they live…Saudi Arabia, Sudan…tribal courts in Pakistan…
Finally, that is the fallacy that keeps giving…”why don’t you denounce the horrors that Muslims commit?”. Karen, I denounce those on my own time, my own blog, my own twitter feed, unprompted.
I also denounce those who tend to demonize a whole people based on the actions of a few. Whenever Prof Turley posts one of these, I know to come back and defend my faith from the extremism of your comments AND worse yet, from your claim to know what you are talking about.
I know better than to make Timothy MCVEigh or the abortion doctors murderers speak for you, so do not make ISl and its ilk speak for me.
Cool. Thanks for the compliment.
Po:
When Professor Turley posts these articles about the atrocities being committed under Sharia Law or radical Islam, why don’t you post that you are a moderate Muslim who objects to this aspect of Sharia Law? You have defended Islam, but I do not have a problem with the peaceful practice of Islam. I have only voiced opposition to extremist Muslims and the abuses of Sharia Law. But, although you have written at length, you have never addressed these atrocities themselves. If I have missed your denunciation of the abuses of Sharia Law, such as the killing of gays, please point me to it.
I am a Christian, who was raised Catholic, and I have been very vocal about the terrible pedophilia scandal in the Catholic Church.
Why are you not similarly vocal about where radical Islam needs to clean up its act?
Mondemom…reference “Ari’s Key”, Whoa! No … that was your remark and I repeat it here: At first glance, the surahs are not in logical order, but to those with the key, they are.
I asked what you meant by the “key”? You gave no answer, unless I missed it?
As for my opinion that the texts were inscribed after the prophet’s passing, well…I am willing to see evidence and/or research that says otherwise. Really. I am of the same opinion of Judao-Christian texts…that they are consolidations of diverse opinions & interpretations. That most exclude the Apocrypha seems illogical to me. I’m kind of stubborn and slow…it took me 69 years to finally become a Christian,and a cynical one at that. In short, I really do not think it is important when the scripts were transcribed for any of the
Abraham religions…in short I mean no offense. I am far more concerned in the interpretation of all of them today.
I extend the same invitation to you that I did to “po@minutebol” to meet if you are ever in my town (see above) and I do wonder if “Po” is the same as “po@minutebol” or you, since some of your posts are “signed” “Po ” at the end?
What’s up with that?
happy:
What does your comment have to do with my criticism of Sharia Law? That it abuses human rights in every single country where it is practiced? Used to kill gays and rape victims? It was based on the Prophet, so what does it matter when it was written? There is not one single country where Sharia governs criminal law where it does not abuse human rights, most especially those of women and gays.
Unless I’ve missed it, you’ve called me Islamophobic, but you have failed to address any of my actual concerns (and JT’s, too) about Sharia.
If the moderate Muslims in America do not want Sharia Law here, there must be a few legitimate problems with it . . .
Karen, until JT addresses me personally, I will not answer a concern of his about Sharia Law. From what I have seen, He has only opined about insane crimes. The last one being the Australian Rapper. I don’t consider that to be any more Islamic than Charles Manson a Christian.
These people are just blood thirsty and that is what he said in that article
You are the one objectifying it into Sharia Law
It gets old
I agree with NIck Spinelli
I am sick to death of it. It’s worse than that Neoconservative Jingoistic GWbush and Cheney. I can’t stand it. Please. Stop. It.
It is NOT THE SHARIA It is cultural for these people. Get over it. They are not caught up with us yet. Don’t confuse gay bashing and burkas with the United States. Goodness, look what went on in the South here during the Jim Crow times. I should not have to remind you. We have NO room to talk and the whole world knows it.
What I recall the person who invited me on Haj told me was that the journey was the great equalizer. Every pilgrim wears the same robe. Rich and poor look the same, and are treated the same.
I do wish there was more value placed on historical artifacts, however. The renovation of Mecca has destroyed so much of priceless archeological value in the original structure. But much of it is gone forever now.
Happy – yes, I know that Sharia also governs civil as well as criminal punishments. For instance, adopted children do not inherit under Sharia. Female children inherit less than male children. And in addition to the stoning, floggings, decapitations, and amputations, there are also a great many mundane, totally boring rules, as well.
What does that matter?
Karen – I read your intent to mean it was the Revealed Word of God. It is not. It is the Path that Guides their Life. Not just legal aspects of it. All you know is what you read and the awful stuff that comes back to you. Seriously Karen. Do you think Iran is the first Persecuted Nation in the world? Jesus said In Matthew 5:4 “Blessed are those who mourn” blessed who are afflicted with the loss of friends or possessions, or that they who mourn over sin. He also said in 5:6 “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
So, Karen, why don’t you just Pray for these People like Jesus said for you to. My Husband was a Navy Seal in Vietnam doing Recon with the Marines and he saw a lot of suffering over there. He is disabled and in the Veterans home now. Suffering is nothing new.
Po:
As a Muslim, what is your opinion on the fact that if anyone draws a cartoon of the Prophet, a criticizes him in any way, Muslims around the globe go into homicidal rages?
None of the moderate American Muslims I’ve known would ever do that, and Christians certainly don’t do that. And yet, in Muslim-majority countries, it is the reaction, every single time.
Po – According to the Pew analysis, the region where people were less likely to support the application of Sharia Law to Muslims and non-Muslims both is Eastern Europe.
And I have read the Qu’ran, although I do not currently have a copy, and it’s been many years since I read it in entirety. I was invited on Haj, but chose not to go.
As I have stated before, the moderate Muslims I have known consider the Sword versus as figurative.
Happy – I am not Islamophobic. I have no problem with modern Muslims. I have a problem with radical Muslim extremists, you know, the ones descapitating people. The ones killing non-Muslim old men, women, and children. Don’t you?
Is Professor Turley an Islamophobe when he repeatedly posts articles about yet another atrocity committed under Sharia Law? It is true that there are differences in how Sharia Law is interpreted from country to country, but these are slight. Basically, the punishment for apostasy is death. The punishment for homosexuality is death. The punishment for theft is amputation. And so on. There is a variance in the number of lashings, for instance, but Sharia Law is very essentially the same.
If you think that my criticism of Islam is unjust or irrational, then do you also feel the same about Professor Turley?
As I’ve said several times, my own family member witnessed the decapitation of 2 gay men in Saudi Arabia under Sharia Law. He’s known survivors of a Turkish prison. It’s no laughing matter. A girl I knew was arrested in Iran for wearing nail polish and for riding in a car with her maternal cousin, who had a different last name. Again, these are very serious issues, and I don’t have to be a Muslim to point them out.
Pew research on the attitudes of Muslims globally on Sharia Law, with interesting analysis on different regional opinions:
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/
Karen – I don’t have a Pew Research Book but I have over 200 contacts on Facebook that are Pakistani and they say it is nothing about The Revealed Word of God but the word means “Path” in Arabic. —— What is Sharia?
Also meaning “path” in Arabic, sharia guides all aspects of Muslim life, including daily routines, familial and religious obligations, and financial dealings. It is derived primarily from the Quran and the Sunna—the sayings, practices, and teachings of the Prophet Mohammed. Precedents and analogy applied by Muslim scholars are used to address new issues. The consensus of the Muslim community also plays a role in defining this theological manual.
Sharia developed several hundred years after the Prophet Mohammed’s death in 632 CE as the Islamic empire expanded to the edge of North Africa in the West and to China in the East.
http://www.cfr.org/religion/islam-governing-under-sharia/p8034
I have known one of them for 5 years.
Happypappies, I retrieved your comment at 11:47.
Being from Africa, Paul, I hold great value in oral history, that is all we had until the Arabs and French came along.
That’s my point about disagreements in Islam, there aren’t many topics that are unanimous, and the text being written in the Prophet’s life or after is one of those. The consensus is that it was written down while the Prophet recited. As you know, it was an oral tradition with very few scribes, but those wrote and the others memorized.
The specific thing about the quran is that God himself says in it that it is protected from corruption, unlike the testaments, which are said, in the quran still, to have been corrupted. Obviously if we assume it is divine revelation, we must also assume that it would then be protected from corruption.
The other thing is that in a society where poetry and the verve is of utmost importance, where people rivaled in their mastery of the word, where memory was sharp and where the ability to forge words was only rivaled by the ability to swing the sword, the love of words and their keen memory became that which protected the revelation for corruption.
One may not realize how true that is until one attends the congregational prayer and the imam makes an error while reciting. If he doesn’t correct himself promptly, several voices would rise and correct him and put him on the right track.And many, many Muslims across the globe can recite the quran by heart, just as their predecessors did.
Momdemom said …
At first glance, the surahs are not in logical order, but to those with the key, they are.
Okay. Now what is the “key” and who is it that have it or them?
Ari I agree with everything you said but for that bit about “…and Islamic texts were written well after their prophets had passed on.” In fact, in islam, the main text is the Quran and it was memorized and written down in the life of the Prophet. Now, the hadiths on the other hands (collections of words and deeds of the Prophet according to a chain of narration deemed trustworthy) were written much later.
And Paul, yes there were some ( a few) personal copies of the quran that sported some errors that were destroyed when khalife Usman offically standardized it but using the one entrusted to the wife of the Prophet as reference and made sure the text remains uncorrupted.
Also, if we assume, for a moment that the quran is indeed divinely revealed, and seeking to guide humanity until the end of times, it is apparent to me that many of its truths won’t reveal themselves but later, just as the scientific aspects of it were lost on early Muslims. The cheat card you refer to (Ari’s key), Paul, is simply knowledge and wisdom. I do not claim either, but reading the works of those who attained both and speaking to those blessed with it, I do have insight in it that some others without the same pursuit and access might have.
By the way, momdemom is Po, site won’t let me reply so doing it from my email.
momdemom a.k.a. po – there is disagreement among scholars about whether the text was written down during the lifetime of the Prophet or after. There is no shame in an oral tradition. In fact, oral story tellers are greatly admired. We know that the Iliad and the Odyssey were probably oral tales originally because they have markers to help the storyteller. Personally, I am not sure that a person named Homer had them written down.
Now, if the Quran is written down during his lifetime, the Prophet has his official stamp of the Quran. If after, there is always a little hanky panky that can go on. In fact we know some small revisions did go on and some book burning did take place. For instance, we know that when the New Testament was solidified, only the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were selected from a host of possible gospels (and most scholars think that none of these men wrote their own gospels). Basically, the teen years of Jesus are unaccounted for. In Genesis in the Torah (Old Testament), we know there were at least three and maybe four writers. In some places, there are two versions of the same event with different details.
Is there a general consensus on what the implementation of Sharia Law in any culture looks like? “Nudged” into it’s acceptance seems to be the most likely.
Well…for one thing, I am delighted I’ve manged a few comments without the denial of service bit about an alleged proxy server. Tiny victories are nice.
Paul … I have to agree with you that I believe most of Biblical texts and Islamic texts were written well after their prophets had passed on. They appear to be compositions, interpretations actually, by many rather than the words of any one. To me, fairly new to religious belief (though not un-read in 4 different bibles cover to cover), it makes no sense to assert than any singular part of the texts are laws, standing on their own, such as you cite in the Code of Hammurabi. I think this is where man (and women) corrupt the intent of the texts. Others’ MMV :-O
momdemom … you remarked that no 2 scholars, etc. are likely to agreed on all interpretations of texts in the Koran. Same for the Bible, Torah, and Talmud I fear. It was one of the main reasons I was agnostic, nearly Atheistic, until very recently….I found no logic in those who repeatedly extract texts without the former and the later to go with them, as you also cited. Regrettably most formal religious observances do just that.