Germany has long shown far greater foresight than the United States in the investment into science, infrastructure, and alternative energy — investments that are now giving the country huge returns as a leading economic system. With a decision of Lower Saxony, the German have now shown precisely how serious they are about keeping the country as one of the most educated in the world: they have eliminated all college and university tuition. The Germans view education as not just a right, but an essential component for continued growth.
There are critics to educational subsidies who raise some good-faith issues of how such payments can eliminate pressure to make efficient choices and actually drive up costs. I actually see value to students paying some tuition. However, with tuition sky rocking in the United States and falling enrollment numbers, the United States is heading to a reckoning in the future for our lack of investment in our workforce. While we have spent trillions of dollars on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (and just renewed our commitment to the later to keep forces in the country), we have continued to cut environmental, scientific, educational, and infrastructure investments. The inevitable result is that we will continue to drop in our competitiveness in the world market and the future economy. Every other country is investing heavily in education while the United States continues to be distracted by shiny objects with more immediate political benefits for politicians.
What is striking is that it is not just third world countries that are investing heavily education, but economic leaders like Germany.
Notably, tuition was only introduced in Germany in 2006 after the German Constitutional Court ruled that limited fees do not violate the country’s commitment to universal education. However, the tuition rates proved unpopular and the country is now tuition free. Of course, there is no such thing as free tuition. The taxpayers are footing the bill. Moreover, such government subsidies can have a negative impact on not just the choices of students (who feel less pressure to make efficient choices) but on schools which are dependent on the government.
Nevertheless, the contrast could not be greater with the United States in terms of the commitment to education as not just a right (as it is in Germany) but as a real national security priority.
The article below has an interesting discussion of how England rejected the free tuition approach but has lost more money due to the higher student default rate on tuition. Yet, the English students face a maximum debt load of $14,550 per year where U.S. tuition rates and debt are soaring. Student loan debt in our country now stands at $1.2 trillion.
Of course, that is less than a third of the costs for the wars, but no one is making such comparisons.
http://thinkprogress.org/education/2014/10/01/3574551/germany-free-college-tuition/
Good Lord.
Ebola!
Save me from the stupidity.
Jim
You are making Doc’s point. The FDA serves a purpose, but ultimately one is responsible for his own decisions. Without the FDA, worst sugar substitutes would be present on the market and more people would die from it.
There has been so much pressure put on the FDA, and the EPA for that matter by the business community and their political pets that the process of approving new drugs has been curtailed.
I understand the FDA’s role but do not necessarily trust it, knowing its method for approval. That is why I never used aspartame, and instead used stevia, which I know to be natural, and which, coincidentally, has not been approved by the FDA as a food additive?!
I mean, pot is not legal, nor is hemp, which is an incredible resource! I do not agree with it, so I’ll work on changing the law. Yet I still understand the purpose of the ban, though idiotic.
Dusty,
For Lord’s sake. I am NOT making rules! I am commenting on what I am looking for, what I would discuss with my children, what I would discuss with my friends. In no way was I suggesting that Olly withdraw his support for Hillside. I recognize that there are lots of people who disagree with me and would make much different choices. They are absolutely, positively free to do so. It just isn’t my choice for me and I would hope not for my children.
You are really being a jerk about this.
And please! ‘Icky’ Milton Friedman? Grade school.
docmadison – so you are knocking a Nobel prize winner in economics, something you will never acquire. Jealous much?
davidm2575
po, it is immoral for government to constantly support the poor. Government should help the poor on a cyclical rotation basis. That’s it. People need to give aid to the poor the rest of the time.
David,
Are you then taking it upon yourself to make people give?
Is government supposed to rely on people to help others?
The government has done a good enough job erecting a framework through which it determine the conditions and extend of the help it gives people. Some people would not want to depend on government help, matter of pride, others have not such concern. It is unavoidable though that some would want to live their whole lives on that dole. the government does a good enough job making them jump through enough hoops to dissuade their dependency.
But once again, I am more concerned with the government to lobby firms pathway, and the billions of dollars subsidies that the corporations get that reduce their tax liability to zero, than i am with poor people getting $2000 a year in governmental help.
docmadison – “Because there are no end of con men and women who are happy to fleece those who are sick and fearful and without medical expertise I support licensure and certification. Certification of medical specialists helps to expose crooks and provides the patient with some assurance that the physician is not a quack. However, it is no guarantee. I also want my physician to have hospital privileges. Most demand certification for specialists.
Just as it is my practice to use certified physicians, I also buy my drugs from a licensed pharmacist, hire licensed plumbers, electricians,and architects.
I would be surprised to learn that you buy your drugs on the street, have Joe’s buddy repair your flooded basement, and get yourself a bunch of 2x4s and add a second floor to your home and hire the kid down the street to help you rewire your 100 year old house..”
If I was to have open heart surgery I would be less concerned with certs and licenses and more about the guys track record. It’s hard to imagine a heart specialist being successful if he kills even more than one person because of stupidity. When I move to a new area and need to buy car insurance, I just don’t buy the first one I see. I ask around, find out who is good so why wouldn’t I at least do this for any major medical needs?
As for drugs off the street, no I don’t since the regs are already in place and any street drugs would most likely be shady since they would be breaking the law.
Do I know Joe? Is he recommending his buddy who has done several successful jobs? If so, I would absolutely have Joe’s buddy fix my basement (Well I would fix it myself first). I do all my own electrical and construction.
My point is, certs and license have nothing to due with how good any service or product is and you have drank the nanny govt. kool-aide that they need to coddle you in your decision making. Do you trust the FDA? If so, I invite you to Google Aspartame and FDA and enjoy the reading. My wife had seizures from the poison and the certified/licensed doctors (One dr. we had told her to chew gum, yes gum, I am not kidding) put her on dilantin which reacted with Aspartame to destroy her thyroid. So now she has to take thyroid meds everyday for the rest of her life. Thanks, govt.!
Oh, we had to do the research and found the Aspartame link. She hasn’t had one seizure since removing Aspartame from her diet.
One last thing, look how well our govt. is handling the Ebola situation. So who are the con men you are worried about?
Dusty,
Why do you even have to guess about who I would hire? I told you who I would hire. And I also stated that there is no guarantee. And why are you making a lot of silly suggestions as to the competency of unlicensed tradesmen in a hypothetical?
And if Joe lives by himself in the middle of nowhere and if his house falls down or catches fire but doesn’t burn down a forest it harms no one but himself, I don’t care what he does. But if he has a family or lives in a town or city alongside others, I sure as hell do care what he does with our shared plumbing and electrical and so do the first responders and his insurance company.
I haven’t read about the raw milk issue, so I won’t offer an opinion. But I sure as hell do have one about vaccinations.
We live in a society, Dusty. There are no end of things that I can do that will hurt my neighbors. Life is complicated and sorting out regulations that work for society is a complicated business. Some fail. Some are stupid. Most work.
Paul C. Schulte
po – you can not guarantee anything of the sort. I am sorry that things are falling down in Senegal but the Roman and Egyptians built things without requiring certificates.
Obviously, Paul, I cannot guarantee any single thing! Just figure of speech, as you well know. Well, go ahead and hire the local handyman, or better yet, the local dentist to build your house.
Anyway, you do know that those among the Romans and the Egyptians who built things were qualified to build things, right? That every king or leader had an architect who not only learned his trade and apprenticed under other masters but was widely known to be qualified to design and build as they did? Some of the most incredible and enduring masterpieces of history were built by people without a paper certificate,but surely were recognized as masters of their trade.
Today a certificate is simply that, an acknowledgement of qualification to perform in that trade.
Paul, the idea that we should not help the poor because it enslaves them to the system is misguided. Blaming Obama for the increased poverty level is also misguided. The suggestion that he came in with a budget surplus and squandered it is dishonest.
I voted for him the first time but voted for Jill Stein the second time. I do not need to defend him. Facts being facts however,one should not gloss over the Iraq war and its ongoing costs, along with the complete opposition from the right to every single one of Obama’s policies, every single one, and simply for political reasons. Obama did not get to implement the fiscal policies he proposed, thanks to the right, which then blames him for failing to lift the economy!
The idea that the poor are a permanent class intent on staying poor a lifetime and taking advantage of the system is also dishonest. Many here have charted their life courses and it showed them having been poor at some point in their lives. They worked themselves out of it, as do most of the poor people. The liberals’ policies tend to provide support for the poor to work themselves out of it. The republicans tend to blame them for their poverty, for the help they might get from the government, and expect them to wait while the money trickle trickles down to them and lifts them along with everyone.
po, it is immoral for government to constantly support the poor. Government should help the poor on a cyclical rotation basis. That’s it. People need to give aid to the poor the rest of the time. The effect on a person receiving help from their neighbor is much different than receiving government assistance. They always call the government aid “their check.” It’s owed to them. When they receive aid from their neighbor, they are more grateful and they are more open to accepting advice about how to get out of their poverty.
I can also guarantee you that the ones claiming nanny state and too much regulations would be the first ones to grab the government when they fall prey to the free market “risks” they support.
The government/ society is supposed to protect people against their own or others’ idiotic tendencies. Have we forgotten how it was when charlatans roamed the countryside selling miracle drugs? The laws did not come to be until there was the problem, there was a need. Were there no need, many of these laws you decry would not exist.
In Senegal, there have been lately many cases of poorly built buildings falling down because there is no building department that ensures that there are building plans, and that they are properly drawn with the right material and sizing. Now such an office is being contemplated because it is now found to be necessary.
I am one of those who wants to buy raw milk, but I do understand why the government doesn’t support it. In light of the many cases of widespread illness caused by bacteria in produce and meat, the government is supposed to be nannish.
I live next to the green basket of California, where most of the strawberries and produce are grown. Well, it’s been found that some of the pesticides used taint the groundwater, and it is been found that children whose schools are near the fields have a higher rate of disease. Free market supports the government crosses its hands on that, common sense dictates the public be protected.
Sure, Joe my neighbor can build a car in his garage and sell it to a 1000 people. When the cars break down on the freeway and cause a pileup, or blow up, hey, they bought it!
Obviously when people feel threatened by these cars blowing up on the freeway, who is called upon to stop Joe?
po – you can not guarantee anything of the sort. I am sorry that things are falling down in Senegal but the Roman and Egyptians built things without requiring certificates.
“My comment already stipulated that it was free and still last on my list as a way to pursue an education.”
And that is the opinion that you are free to chose. MIlton Freidman a PBS documentary. Maybe that PBS will past your “ooooh icky icky source, I don’t want to look” attitude. http://miltonfriedman.blogspot.com/
What YOU want a college kid to be exposed to is immaterial to what the kid himself or his parents who might be paying for the experience want to have happen. No one is making you take a class or even look at icky links. However it isn’t up to you to determine what other people do.
I hope they don’t make anyone read Ayn Rand. She is one of the most God awful boring writers in the world. Not that I don’t agree with “some” of her ideas, but to read the books again would make my eyes roll back in my head..
Olly,
Do you think you made an important point while pointing out that the online course was free? My comment already stipulated that it was free and still last on my list as a way to pursue an education.
I feel confident that you think it is a terrific education and I am sure there are some very fine classes. However, I think there is probably little room for ideas that reject vulture capitalism, the unfettered free market, values the social contact and believes that government is good.
The first thing i want for a college kid is to be exposed to a range of ideas and people. A first look at Hillside does not assure me that they foster that kind of education. I’m probably being terribly unfair, but I can’t help thinking that Ayn Rand is required reading for all freshman.
Paul C. Schulte
po – I have got to ask where are the liberals or Democrats giving the poor a break? Please explain at length, which I know you can. Because I think this one we are going to go around and around on. 😉
Paul, I do not think to need explain this. I mean, look at the individual and party platforms, one advocates for big business while the other advocates for the have-nots (better social policies, better student loans rates and terms, better welfare policies, extended unemployment, universal healthcare, better civil protections for the threatened…etc).
po – all of this enslaves the poor into the system. It does not help them advance. It requires the poor to stay poor and to vote poor. They are not for bettering anyone but themselves. Don’t kid yourself Po, there are more people on welfare then there have every been. The War on Poverty is in retreat. The unemployment rate among black youth is 25%. That is unacceptable. This administration has had 6 years to fix it and it has just gotten worse.
“I would be surprised to learn that you buy your drugs on the street, have Joe’s buddy repair your flooded basement, and get yourself a bunch of 2x4s and add a second floor to your home and hire the kid down the street to help you rewire your 100 year old house..”
You wouldn’t do this, I am guessing. But why can’t it be his choice? Maybe Joe’s buddy is a retired master plumber or carpenter. Maybe someone IS capable of adding a second story to their house. If they aren’t and their house falls apart….tuff…. that is their problem. The kid down the street might be a whiz at electrical.
Where I WOULD draw the line is if your substandard repairs put the house next to you in peril. But how can you prove that. Your licensed contractor is not a guarantee of excellence. Believe me. I KNOW this.
How about raw milk?. If I have a neighbor who has raw cow’s or goat’s milk that I would like to buy to make cheese. Why can’t I take that risk on myself? What if there is a market for this product. Why can’t people, with the proper notifications, that it is raw and unpasteurized, buy it for themselves if they want to? . IF people are getting sick from the milk or Joe’s buddy is just screwing up the jobs he is doing….people will find out and the milk will not flow and Joe’s buddy will have to find something else to do. It isn’t the government’s job to be super Nanny to the country and protect us from every paper cut or bad decision.. People should be allowed to take risks.
This is how the free market place works…..or used to anyway.
Jim,
Because there are no end of con men and women who are happy to fleece those who are sick and fearful and without medical expertise I support licensure and certification. Certification of medical specialists helps to expose crooks and provides the patient with some assurance that the physician is not a quack. However, it is no guarantee. I also want my physician to have hospital privileges. Most demand certification for specialists.
Just as it is my practice to use certified physicians, I also buy my drugs from a licensed pharmacist, hire licensed plumbers, electricians,and architects.
I would be surprised to learn that you buy your drugs on the street, have Joe’s buddy repair your flooded basement, and get yourself a bunch of 2x4s and add a second floor to your home and hire the kid down the street to help you rewire your 100 year old house..
@ Jim22
“Why does a license or cert make you feel better? Just saying something is a bad idea doesn’t make if so.”
I would say that , for me, it would depend on the level of specialized knowledge that the occupation requires and job level that you need done.
Take plumbing…..since that is a business I am familiar with. It doesn’t take a licensed contractor to put a new faucet in to replace a leaking one. It isn’t rocket science to change the shower head. However, if I were to be building a brand new house I would want a person who knows what he/she is doing to make sure that 1.) there are no substandard construction issues to cause substantial damage to my house and 2.) that there is recourse if there are problems. The contractor is bonded.
There are tons of occupations that do NOT need to be licensed. Yet they are. All this does is increase the cost to the consumer.
Take a doctor. If I have a cut that needs to be stitched up or a sprained ankle….I don’t need a specialist from a prestigious hospital. Actually, I probably don’t need anyone at all. The local Veterinarian might do in a pinch. However, if I’m going in for open heart surgery I’d like to know my surgeon has some certified learning.
Both of those being said. It should be up to the consumer. If I want to hire a gypo plumber….that should be my prerogative. If I want to trust my open heart surgery to someone uncertified, than that is on me. Get my nails done at an unlicensed shop. So what? My choice. Buy my meat from the guy down the road who is slaughtering his own cattle…..(wait…I DO that!) It is my choice. My risk.
Jim, The licensing procedure for me to get licensed as a PI was a joke. In typical insular bureaucratic mentality, over half of the test was knowing their inane rules and regulations. Most of the other stuff was almost all criminal law. I knew it because I was a prosecutor’s office criminal investigator previously. But, I do civil litigation almost exclusively and there were 2 questions on that! The internet is making licensing more and more archaic. Before I use a new doctor, lawyer, plumber, virtually any profession, I check them out online and speak w/ people who have used their services. Being licensed doesn’t mean squat. There are some licensing that is relevant and it’s mostly medical. I don’t want some LPN working on me, I want an educated and trained RN.
“Free on-line education is last on my list of how to pursue an education…It’s not entirely without value, but I wouldn’t pay a dime for it.”
Docmadison,
Great news, it’s FREE!!! So you don’t have to pay a dime for it. I know, I know, the conservative philosophy of self-reliance, federalism, capitalism, freedom, liberty, security of unalienable rights are foremost on the curriculum but they teach using original source material. They also teach modern liberalism, progressivism and then they expect the students to use reason and logic to determine which system better enables our founding principles to flourish.
docmadison – ”
Actually the first people to scream if doctors no longer need to be licensed (a spectacularly bad idea) will be all the medical schools, hospitals and the licensed doctors.
Do you want to take a second swing at that one?”
So since you replied, why not answer the question? Why does a license or cert make you feel better? Just saying something is a bad idea doesn’t make if so.
Olly,
Of course you did. The more interesting question would have been what I found interesting and good.
Check in with Kreskin. He’s sure to know.
Free on-line education is last on my list of how to pursue an education – especially for the younger student. It’s not entirely without value, but I wouldn’t pay a dime for it.