More evidence is emerging supporting Ferguson officer Darren Wilson’s claims in the shooting of Michael Brown. The most recent story states that Brown did not have his hands up in the air, as supporters have long claimed, when he was shot. The image of people holding her hands in the air has become the unifying symbol of case and the new evidence represents a new contradiction of the account of Brown’s friend, Dorian Johnson, who insisted that Brown was not shot in a struggle in the car and was shot with his hands in the air.
The fatal encounter between Wilson and Brown occurred shortly after Brown committed a strong arm robbery of a store owner in stealing some cigars:
However, Brown was unarmed when he was shot and Missouri Governor Jay Nixon quickly called for the prosecution of Wilson and referred to Brown as the victim and Eric Holder ordered a massive federal investigation of the shooting as a civil rights violation before the completion of the local investigation.
Much of the anger stemmed from the account of Johnson. As discussed earlier, the evidence indicates that Wilson was suffered some injuries in a struggle and that, consistent with his account, Brown was shot at close quarters, his blood was on the service weapon. The evidence also reportedly supports the claim that the gun was discarded within the car in a struggle.
Regardless of how one reads this evidence, it is another cautionary tale in rushing to judgment in such cases before the investigation is completed. The involvement of politicians and protesters in immediately demanding prosecution can have a highly distortive effect on such cases. There has been an immediate and negative response to any suggestions of evidence supporting the officer in this controversy. The fact is that this controversy — and subsequent rioting — was based on the account of Johnson and very early (and contested) stories of what occurred. As I have previously discussed, while the looting and rioting was not their fault, it was highly improper for politicians to assign guilt before the completion of even the initial investigation.
Wilson reportedly testified before the Grand Jury that he pulled over in his SUV to talk to Brown and his friend Dorian Johnson about the theft of cigarillos. He said that when tried to get out, Brown slammed the door shut and punched him in the face. He just that, when he reached for his weapon, Brown grabbed it and it was pointing for a time at Wilson in the struggling. He said that it was in this struggle that Brown was shot in the hand. He said that he then chased after Brown who allegedly turned and ran toward him. Wilson testified that he told him to stop and then fired. He said that when Wilson continued, he fired more shots.
The independent experts hired by the Post-Dispatch said that they believed that the evidence supported Wilson on some critical points and that a significant struggle occurred in direct and irreconcilable conflict with the account of Johnson. Forensic pathologist from San Francisco, Dr. Judy Melinek, said that Brown’s palms could not have been facing Wilson in the standard surrender position – with hands up and palms out – when he was shot. While other scenarios could explain the evidence and there is still the question of why so many shots were fired (even if the officer’s account is true), there may remain considerable conflicts in the original account.
Those conclusions would seem to support growing view that the Obama Administration also found insufficient evidence to support any federal charge in the shooting and is leaking stories to prepare people for the closing of the investigation.
Source: CBS
bettykath will hold on to what the Chief said (in response to an impromptu question at a press conference) as long as possible. She’ll recognize it to be hearsay, and instead of figuring out that the Chief may have thought the question was about the original reason to engage the two, she’ll pretend that the Chief must have known everything and answered all the questions with perfect fact (unless that fact doesn’t meet with the scenario she wants to establish).
In the recent information releases, Wilson is said to have backed up to reengage the two because of the cigarillo boxes. Wilson would have only known about the cigarillo boxes if he had heard the broadcast about the robbery.
I think that when a criminal attacks a police officer and his life and the lives of others are in eminent danger then the police officer is justified in using any force including deadly force. It does not matter if the perpetrator is an ax wielding Muslim convert or a hopped up out of control giant thug. They need to be put down like the mad dogs they have proven to be by their actions.
Of course I realize that is not the liberal view. In their view anything goes. It is always the policeman’s fault. Every single time.
The only proper response is to go out and loot and burn down some liquor stores.
Bettykath. Sorry I missed that detail. Would you please post a link that contains/refers to the evidence/fact that “The cop stopped Brown b/c he was walking in the middle of the street and didn’t immediately go to the sidewalk when he was told to.” I need to pay better attention to the facts.
Jack
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bettykath has absolutely no idea of what was broadcast over the Ferguson radio prior to Wilson exiting his vehicle. …
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It doesn’t mean jack, because it is illegal to use lethal force on even a felon who is escaping but is unarmed and not a threat to the public he is escaping into.
Tennessee v Garner, Missouri Petite Jury Instructions.
Diversion is unbecoming.
” What was reported in the 911 call was a theft, a misdemeanor.”
A patron at the store called it in. Patrons don’t usually distinguish between misdemeanor theft and strong-armed robbery. Further, we don’t know the extent of what had taken place at the store at the time the patron called it in. -The theft did not turn into a strong-arm robbery until Brown pushed the person who tried to stop him from leaving with the stolen goods.
“no BOLO was issued.”
bettykath has absolutely no idea of what was broadcast over the Ferguson radio prior to Wilson exiting his vehicle. A BOLO may have been broadcast, but since bettykath and company don’t know if it was or not, she has no problem stating that it wasn’t. Why? Cause that’s how Freddie’s Followers role.
Jim22
What is disturbing is that the thug lovers seem to be rooting that the cop is bad. Shouldn’t we all be hoping that the evidence shows that he did nothing wrong?
Karen, Great video.
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No, the evidence is to be used to show which one is the thug.
trooperyork
… It is true that the commentary on this blog is very enlightening …
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You should join in then by articulating the applicable law rather than the applicable bias.
Bias as a filler when one is void of a clue about the applicable law is not enlightening.
So what is your take on Tennesse v Garner?
I mean as applied to the Missouri “fleeing felon” law that was held unconstitutional eo nomine in Garner.
What is disturbing is that the thug lovers seem to be rooting that the cop is bad. Shouldn’t we all be hoping that the evidence shows that he did nothing wrong?
Karen, Great video.
bettykath,
I notice that your source did police work in Atlanta, Georgia, and has children.
Other posts he did on DK are “Police Officers should be accountable” and “A Cops take on Ferguson”.
Thank you Steve. It is true that the commentary on this blog is very enlightening. I just learned that the proper police procedure is after you attacked you should let the perpetrator get away.
Good to know.
Too bad they didn’t let that ax guy get away in Queens. That definitely would have been the right thing to do. When can we expect the riots? There are way too many Quickie Marts there and we need to do something about that. I hear they sell those extra big soda’s and stuff.
Steve, “Here’s what I know. Brown robbed a store. The cop stopped Brown to ask him about it. Shorty thereafter the cop shot Brown.”
You haven’t been paying attention. What was reported in the 911 call was a theft, a misdemeanor. No BOLO was issued. Even the police chief said that Wilson didn’t know anything about it. The cop stopped Brown b/c he was walking in the middle of the street and didn’t immediately go to the sidewalk when he was told to.
bettykath,
” If you look at this incident in context you actually have 2 separate significant events. Those 2 events represent 2 distinct chain of events where Wilson had a choice to make.”
That is what a proper trial of the facts before a petite jury would deal with.
Assume that Brown was shot in the hand by Wilson from inside the patrol car.
He got away and headed down the street.
Under federal 14th amendment constitutional law Wilson cannot use deadly force simply because Brown is trying to escape.
That is what your former LEO source is pointing out.
They want to focus on the vehicle scenario because the big mistake was made later after exiting the vehicle.
Steve H.
Well said!
One of the great aspects of this blog is the rather large number of people who know everything. I applaud those who know exactly what happened that day in Ferguson, who have the evidence to prove that the cop essentially murdered Mr Brown, who know how and why “the police” are destroying/manufacturing evidence to prove the cop’s innocence, and who aren’t at all biased by any pre-conceived notions.
My only question is: Why are you receiving the national attention you deserve? Surely, the DoJ, Mr Brown’s attorney, or PBS ought to call you in to testify / opine.
Here’s what I know. Brown robbed a store. The cop stopped Brown to ask him about it. Shorty thereafter the cop shot Brown.
Here’s what I don’t know. What happened in the car. What was said in the initial conversation. What Brown did, and why. What the cop did, and why. Mostly, I know that I don’t know much.
What’s most curious about this whole blog is the number of people who are lawyers or who say they have lawyer friends, and who rely heavily on one eyewitness to a chaotic, violent, horrific event; and then they become certain that the cop murdered the deceased.
Sad, really. I would expect this in junior high school. Not from folk who profess intelligence and education. Further, on a blog with the major focus being the Rule of Law, there are so many who epitomize Mob Rule.
Me, I’m expecting more data, testimony and analysis to come out. And then I’ll form an opinion of this case. But I could be wrong. I’m only a businessman, not a lawyer.
bettykath.
The “he went for my gun” thingy is for public consumption.
It was not developed for professional consumption.
At either a criminal or civil trial the experts will testify about such matters.
And one more point
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/24/1338589/–He-went-for-his-Gun#
Anybody that has investigated (or been involved in) any fight involving a weapon knows that when you are faced with a potentially deadly weapon like a knife or a gun you will almost always do 2 things: try and get as small as you can and put your hand up. It seems strange to people who haven’t experienced this but it has been a reality in my years on the street. In situations like this a persons instincts take over and it just happens. I don’t have specific data but in my experience I always found a large percentage of gunshot victims with entry wounds to the side of their body as opposed to center mass. Why? Because if you are aware that you are about to be mortally wounded most people will instinctively blade their body to the side and present the smallest target possible for the aggressor. You will also likely put your hand or arm up in a futile attempt to stop the bullet. I’ve seen it many many times. Shots in the hand where the bullet travels down the arm and into the body. Shots under the arm (almost always fatal) with small entry wounds no exit wound and very little external bleeding. So contrary to any conclusions the media has reached Brown could have had a very typical reaction to his impending death.
We don’t know why Wilson chose to engage Brown at the window of his patrol vehicle but if he did that was a critical error on his part. CRITICAL. You just never do that. It appears that Wilson put himself in a bad position and it forced him to make more critical errors after that. Whatever happened at the car when Wilson felt he couldn’t control the situation he reacted out of fear and anger. If you look at this incident in context you actually have 2 separate significant events. Those 2 events represent 2 distinct chain of events where Wilson had a choice to make.
bettykath – there are a lot of things you do when you have the time to think clearly but we know that Michael Brown had enough cannabis in his system to be hallucinating. Would he be thinking clearly??? I think not.
We’re only missing a HuffPo link now. We got the other big 4.
same story, different point
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/24/1338589/–He-went-for-his-Gun#
The first event is what happened that led to Wilson believing that he should shoot Brown at or in the patrol vehicle. The details of those circumstances are very suspicious to me. Even if you consider what the media is reporting to be supportive evidence of the officers side of the events and that evidence turns out to be 100% accurate I don’t believe that Wilson was justified in shooting Brown in the first place.
The second event is what happened once Wilson exited his vehicle. In my opinion what Wilson did here is just flat out inexcusable. It is damning because Wilson just seems to have been so out of control at that point. Chasing Brown and shooting at him was wrong on every level. If Brown has disengaged and is running away it’s over. Wilson should have stopped and called in that he had a suspect running. Wilson chased him down after the initial struggle and by this point Wilson already knew that Brown was likely unarmed. IF Brown is trying to get away and is unarmed then Wilson has absolutely no reason to shoot him whatsoever. It can be embarrassing but sometimes in the interest of your own safety and the public’s you just have to let them get away.
Here’s an analysis by a former cop
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/24/1338589/–He-went-for-his-Gun#
Why on earth would Brown just suddenly decide to go for Wilson’s holstered weapon in broad daylight when a moment ago they were just talking through the window? This is where the story gets murky. Some reports are that Wilson was struggling with Brown standing at his window. Other reports are that the struggle started when Wilson tried to get out of the vehicle, was pushed back and Wilson pulled Brown in with him. The post article implies that Wilson or an unnamed witness testified Brown reached in and tried to keep Wilson from drawing the weapon. Browns friend stated that Wilson grabbed Brown by the neck and that’s when they began to scuffle. But why was Wilson trying to draw his weapon in the first place? Wilson claims that Brown struck him in the head several times and he didn’t know what was going on but he was able to get off 2 shots. How was Wilson able to get his gun out of the holster, while he was in his vehicle and getting punched in the face and neck?
Let’s take the first scenario, Wilson makes contact with suspect and after some words were exchanged Brown then reaches in the car and “goes for his gun”. If you want to understand how difficult it is to get a gun out of the holster while you are in a patrol car here is an experiment you can try. Put on a pair of regular fitting jeans and then put your smart phone in your front pocket. Next go sit in your car. Now try and get that phone out of your pocket from that seated position. Speed that entire process up about 400%. If you really want to make the experiment interesting, have a friend stand outside of your car door and try to take that phone out of your pocket while you are sitting there resisting them. Not an exact science but I’m sure you’ll get the point. Imagine that same experiment wearing a bullet proof vest, 25 pounds of equipment and a real gun in a triple retention holster. That is exactly why you NEVER engage a suspect while sitting in the vehicle like Wilson did. Never.
Love Lucia’s and their deli. It has been there a long time.