During the coverage of the Ferguson protests, activist Joshua Williams, 19, became something of a celebrity as an advocate for peaceful protests. He was profiled by MSNBC and shown walking hand-in-hand with Cornel West. Williams was the counter image of the violent protesters who burned and looted Ferguson. However, this week, Williams was charged for setting fire to a convenience store during those very protests — a crime that police say he confessed to in a videotaped interview. It is sad development for a young man who garnered national attention for his work as a protest leader.
MSNBC featured Williams in a profile entitled “Portrait of a Protester” . In the piece, Williams describes how he also was angry and yelled at police. However, he insisted:
“I think we can be better if we can all come together. We might have to come together and show that we can work together and overthrow the system. But we have to come together as one and show them we can be peaceful, that we can do this. If not they’re going to just want us to act up so they can pull out their toys on us again.”
Police now say that he did more than that. They have introduced surveillance video and news footage showing Williams starting multiple fires inside and outside the Quick Trip convenience store as it was being looted by others.
He was charged with arson in the first degree and with second-degree burglary for entering the convenience store — both are felonies. He was also charged with misdemeanor stealing for taking a lighter, gum and cash from the store. They say that he has confessed to the crimes. However, protesters have demonstrated at the St. Louis County Justice Center over his arrest, insisting that charges be dropped.
With the reported videotape and confession, that is highly unlikely. What will be interesting is whether the court will view his statements advocacy peaceful protests as a positive community service (and thus a mitigating factor) or as an act of hypocrisy (and thus as aggravating factor) in sentencing.
In the profile by MSNBC, Williams speaks of his initial anger but says that he redirected that anger into peaceful and positive protest. He credits the intervention of Rev. Willis Johnson of the Wellspring Church as a turning point for him. Notably, that interview included an admission that could itself be viewed as assault but was not charged:
“I remember one night the police fired tear gas at us and I picked one of them up and threw it back at them. And the more we threw them back they just kept firing them back at us. It’s like it never stopped. I said to myself, we need another plan. This isn’t working.”
The arson however is far more serious. Indeed, with people still in the store when Williams allegedly torched it, there could have been additional charges brought by police.
Source: LA Times
*time served
DBQ
that horse you are flogging to death, it is merely a mule…Give it a break!
You are doing all a disservice by putting words in my mouth then foaming at the mouth at “what am saying”.
Again, I am responding to what Olly asked about my faith…which you jumped right on to attack what I “am advocating”. The only thing I am advocating is more forgiveness in our judicial system, which if you pay attention, is already established in it.
What are attenuating circumstances?
What is parole?
What is community service in lieu of jail term?
Whether that forgiveness happens prior to time service or during matters little, it is there.
“Psychologists can philosophize all they want. I want justice when I am wronged.” Hence my full point about lacking a Christian heart…blood for blood, eye for eye…no wonder we are all blind.
“The death penalty would be a deterrent if we actually exercised it in a swift and sure manner. Keeping someone alive on death row for decades is ridiculous and frankly cruel. ”
Well, to quote you “In the justice system that we have in the United States,and which is NOT Sharia law based” the law demands we afford the accused the opportunity to legally fight his being put to death,, which is the least you owe a man.
Considering how many people have been found innocent at the last hour and pulled back from the clutches of the death chair, and the many more who have been put to death without regard for the many holes in the prosecution, that would be to undermine the basic individual freedoms you claim to hold so dearly. The process is the process so don’t advocate changing it in favor of some biblically based justice that puts people to death before they can get to fight for their freedom.:)
Codify it, don’t codify it; there is no difference between sharia and our constitutional rule of law if the outcome is the same.
Being a convenience store clerk is one of the most dangerous jobs in the United States. You never know when a dangerous savage might walk in and decide to manhandle you or even kill you to get something they need. Not milk or bread for starving babies. Something really important like some Philly blunts so you can get a good spliff going.
Then of course you can lose your job when some other mook decides to burn down your store.
Just don’t expect anyone to protest because you lost your job.
BarkingDog,
Very interesting. I’m curious if the business that Williams torched was owned by someone of color?
The Defamation Of Ferguson. This needs to be a topic on this blog. The author of the article needs to make some corrections. Josua Williams is not from Ferguson. I looked at the MSMBC news article on the tab above and the video would not come on but the print version underneath says that Williams recently graduated from high school. It did not answer the Saint Louis Question: Where did you go to high school? So I looked up an article in the Saint Louis Post Dispatch on Williams’ arrest. The Post says that he is from St. Louis. In the Saint Louis area this means The City of St. Louis, not the County of St. Louis. But, the St. Louis Question remains unanswered. But he does not hail from Ferguson.
The fire was set in Berkeley, MO. This is one town nearby Ferguson. The arson was set after the guy who pulled the gun on the cop got shot there in Berkeley.
Ferguson as a town gets defamed every minute by the media. Brown was not from Ferguson. He is the fleeing felon killed by a Ferguson cop back in August. Michael Brown went to Normandy High School. Not Ferguson. The place where he was shot is on he fringe of Ferguson on the east side of West Florissant.
To be clear here. Many protestors, looters, and arsonists in the separate towns of: Berkeley, Dellwood, Jennings, and Ferguson are from outside Ferguson. Many people who voted in Ferguson for the White Mayor are Black. That says something. The population is roughly 70% Black. They can vote their Mayor out and get a Black police chief. They could hire an all Black police force. The media assumes that they are dumb for not doing so. Why is that? JT this is a question about the defamation of Ferguson which deserves a separate article on this blog.
JT: You got it wrong in the title of this article. You defamed Ferguson by stating that this arsonist hailed from Ferguson. The fire was set in Berkeley. The arsonist who was lauded by MSNBC in that previous video will be convicted. We need more criminal charges against the arsonists in Dellwood along West Florissant and in Ferguson and also in Berkeley. We need the media to clean its act up. This blog owes Ferguson an apology. Ferguson is a nice town with nice homes and quiet streets.
the law is the ultimate arbiter. However, if the law is informed by the religion (and here I am not advocating for shariah law, I am saying IF), then forgiveness should be a major part of the process.
The law is the law. Law should not be informed (whatever that means) by “the” religion or any religion. We have a multitude of religions in the United States. You are guilty under the same laws whether you are Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or Hindu or Atheist. There is no difference based on religion or how much blood money you can use to bribe your way out of justice. The punishment is based on the crime committed and the seriousness of the crime and can also be mitigated by some circumstances. (mental impairment, accidental versus pre planned etc) none of which are religion based.
Forgiveness is part of the private process not the legal process. If people want to forgive that is up to them on a personal level.
Agreed with Olly in that bribery and money should not be used to game the system. No one can deny that the rich get a “better” outcome than the poor even in our system. HOWEVER, that is a corruption of the system and not a feature as it is in Sharia Law.
I said the person will be punished UNLESS the victim or the victim’s family DECIDES TO FORGO PUNISHMENT in EXCHANGE FOR MONETARY SETTLEMENT.
I have good reading comprehension. I suggest you try it as well. I understand perfectly the system that you are proposing or espousing and (read slowly) I object because it is immoral, in my eyes and only allows people go get away with as much as they are able to pay out or bribe the family. We are never going to agree on this and you can throw Allah or Jesus around all you like…..it doesn’t change my mind.
In the justice system that we have in the United States,and which is NOT Sharia law based, there is no consideration given as to whether the family decides to take a bribe, a settlement, blood money. The crime has been committed and guilt established. There is a punishment, or range of punishments, that is codified in the law. The victim’s family does not have the power to “forgo” punishment. They might ask the jury for leniency in some cases and they may get it…..but that does not wipe out the laws. If the family wants to forgive evil that is up to them. It doesn’t trump the law. There is no UNLESS in complying with the law.
Bibery and blood money. Paying for people’s lives….pure and simple. Disgusting and immoral and depraved.
Psychologists will tell you that demanding blood for blood does not solve heartbreak, forgiveness does (Jesus again). Having a murderer killed poisons you while freeing him, forgiving a murderer binds him to you forever (he owes you) while freeing you. That is why Allah says, you have right to demand an eye for an eye, but if you were to forgive, it would better for you.
No thanks. I would prefer not to have a murderer or any other criminal “bound”to me forever in any way shape or form. I can think of nothing worse.
Psychologists can philosophize all they want. I want justice when I am wronged.
the death penalty is not a deterrent. If it were, there would be zero crime in this country, especially when we torture people on the death chair.
The death penalty would be a deterrent if we actually exercised it in a swift and sure manner. Keeping someone alive on death row for decades is ridiculous and frankly cruel. And I do agree about not torturing people on the death chair (whatever that is) or with chemical injections. They should be beheaded and not sawed off with a cheap knife like the ISIS brutes do. I think the guillotine would suffice. 🙂
DBQ – I would have to agree. I think the death penalty worked a lot better when it was carried out within 48 hours.
Po,
I was simply addressing the fact you brought faith into the thread and seemed to be put off by my question? For what it’s worth, you are exhibiting a sense of humility any person should admire. 😉
DBQ,
The point is there is no difference in outcome; only in method. It doesn’t matter HOW we depart from the rule of law when we measure the impact on unalienable rights. The lopping off of heads has not been limited to one culture or one religion. What matters is returning to the system that is intended to secure those rights and we have a pretty good one, IF we can get back to it.
JT: Your headline says that this arsonist is a “Ferguson Teen”. What part of Ferguson did he live? What street? If not Ferguson, then what town? What state?
If he is not a Ferguson teen then this blog has just furthered and enhanced the media defamation of Ferguson.
Dust Bunny Queen coins some words above which describe the Michael Brown fleeing felon story: “Giant pile of pony poo”.
[music to: Henry The 8th I am I am by Herman and the Hermits]
AL Sharpton is a phony fool…
He’s from New York and raises money from you.
Al got married to the honkies next door ..
He’s been pooping in yards before..
Cause Al’s a giant pile of pony poo!
He doesn’t have nuthin else to do.
He’s a great big pile of pony poo!
Al the phony fool.
Jack
Indeed, if that is him, then he deserves the force of the law upon him.
However, having done much dumb shit in my youth, I would keep him out of jail and have him pay restitution to the store and do some community service.
po – he sets several fires to the store while people are in it. Not sure that community service is the answer.
Olly
“What does my faith have to do with it?”
“Po, Where are the Christian hearts when you need them?”
That’s what.
If this man seeks forgiveness then my Christian heart should forgive; that is the Gospel. But he still has to be held to account by the Law. Law and Gospel, right?
———————————————————
Olly, that was not an attack on Christianity, I am decrying the fact that some call themselves Christian yet do not feel the need to culture the Christian heart, that is actually a praise of the Christian heart.
As I answered DBQ above, the law is the ultimate arbiter. However, if the law is informed by the religion (and here I am not advocating for shariah law, I am saying IF), then forgiveness should be a major part of the process.
DBQ, I suggest to you what you suggested to Mike on the other thread…reading comprehension!
Again, step back from the keyboard and reread for comprehension.
In each case, I said the person will be punished UNLESS the victim or the victim’s family DECIDES TO FORGO PUNISHMENT in EXCHANGE FOR MONETARY SETTLEMENT.
So this it goes:
1- Crime committed
2- Guilt established
3- De facto punishment to be applied, person in custody
4- Guilty party’s family suggests a settlement
5- Family of victim/ victim approves or doesn’t
6- Yay/mediation, nay/ punishment!
Try again, DBQ
Psychologists will tell you that demanding blood for blood does not solve heartbreak, forgiveness does (Jesus again). Having a murderer killed poisons you while freeing him, forgiving a murderer binds him to you forever (he owes you) while freeing you. That is why Allah says, you have right to demand an eye for an eye, but if you were to forgive, it would better for you.
Also, the death penalty is not a deterrent. If it were, there would be zero crime in this country, especially when we torture people on the death chair.
Tada!
Jack to Jack (original),
In a possible defense case, maybe Williams can shift the blame onto Mike Browns Stepfather, who was in another video, ordering protesters to burn the place down.
Any lawyers know how to spin this one. It’s getting better all the time.
@ Olly
The difference is that the buying off of the family is codified and an accepted practice in one and is religiously based, while in ours it is a corruption of the system of laws.
Do rich people get off lightly and get away with murder? Duh. Ask Mary Jo Kopechne and her family. Unfortunately, this corruption has been with us for the entire length of human history. We don’t need to make it officially a part of our legal system as it is in Sharia Law, where the murder can pay in “blood money” to get off.
Whether my family takes a bribe or decides to “forgive” should have zero impact on the rule of law or on the punishment for the crime.
This conversation dovetails nicely with the one in the thread about theocratic governments and people who don’t have enough children are traitors to their religion or State. http://jonathanturley.org/2014/12/29/erdogan-people-using-birth-control-are-traitors/
Jack,
The videos were released yesterday.
DBQ,
What’s the difference between that and our system where anyone with enough money can commit a double-homicide and still walk the streets?
@ po
If I were to kill you for example, the punishment is death unless your family agrees to spare my life in exchange for making them whole by paying them a monetary settlement.
Then your system sucks rotten eggs and is inherently EVIL. When my life can be bought by my killer and reduced to a payment, when the value of the human soul is reduced to dollars and cents and how much you can bribe the family. in order to get out of being justifiable punished…..there is NO value in human life.
There is also no deterrent to committing atrocities and killing. If your evil acts can be paid for, given enough negotiating and a big enough source of money, instead of knowing that you will be punished….where is the deterrent to not just kill anyone you want?
This “system” explains a lot about the depravity and immorality of the ISIS types and the radical Muslims who place no value on life.
if I burned down your house, kill you[r] dog. trash your car, empty your bank account, I would be punished and have to pay you back whatever of yours I ruined.
All about the money to you isn’t it? Would I want my money back. Sure. Can you bring my dog back to life???? There isn’t enough money that can do that. If you inflict pain and suffering on me….I want it to be reflected back onto you. Ask your God for forgiveness. That is in His/Her power.
“What does my faith have to do with it?”
“Po, Where are the Christian hearts when you need them?”
That’s what.
If this man seeks forgiveness then my Christian heart should forgive; that is the Gospel. But he still has to be held to account by the Law. Law and Gospel, right?