There is a horrible triple murder being investigated this morning in North Carolina where three people from a Muslim family were allegedly murdered by Craig Stephen Hicks, 46. Some are speculating that Hicks’ strong atheist views may have been a factor after reading this “anti-theist” positions on the Internet. He has been described in some media account as a “radical atheist” though atheists have rarely engaged in violent acts against religious persons. UPDATE: Police have said that the dispute was not religiously motivated but a dispute over a parking space.
All three victims are from the same family and identified as Deah Shaddy Barakat, his wife Yusor Mohammad, 21, and her sister, Razan Mohammad Abu-Salha, 19. From all accounts, the family was the epitome of a hard-working and successful American family. Barakat was a dental student at the University of North Carolina was a volunteer giving free dental care to Palestinian children. He also helped provide free dental supplies to 75 homeless people in downtown Durham. The recently married couple also organized a fundraiser to raise money for dental care for refugees from Syria. Barakat was going to travel to Turkey to help treat child refugees. His sister-in-law Razan Mohammad Abu-Salha had been studying for a degree at North Carolina State University in Architecture and Environmental Design.
All three were shot in the head.
Hicks posted anti-religious positions on the Internet and asked “why radical Christians and radical Muslims are so opposed to each others’ influence when they agree about so many ideological issues”? His page suggests that he is paralegal at Durham Technical Community College. He reported turned himself in.
News organizations have been focusing on Hicks’ anti-religious statements on the Internet as well as his photograph of a gun. However, anti-religious sentiments do not naturally lead to gunning down family’s of religious people (any more than stated religious beliefs or anti-atheist views naturally leads to killing atheists or agnostics). That does not mean that this was not a motivation in this case but we have little information at this point. Update: The police said that they have evidence of a long-standing parking space dispute.
Nothing is known of any prior interaction or mental disorders on the part of Hicks. Hicks also posted less threatening images, including photos with his wife.
Atheist leaders immediately condemned the murders. The numerous articles focusing on Hicks’ reported atheist views show no specific connection to this family or advocacy of anti-religious violence. However, it creates the possibility of a crime motivated by religious hostilities and is presumably being investigated as a possible hate crime. In the end, the classification of the murders as a hate crime are unlikely to materially affect the prosecution in the case if Hicks confessed to the murders. The question remains an insanity defense. As previously discussed, the insanity defense has been substantially curtailed in this country. I believe that North Carolina uses the M’Naghten Rule with the burden of proof on the defendant. The test is generally defined as meaning “the defendant was laboring under such a defect of reason from disease or deficiency of mind at the time of the alleged act as to be (1) incapable of knowing the nature and quality of his act, or (2) incapable of distinguishing between right and wrong with respect to such act.” State v. Mancuso, 364 S.E.2d 359 (1988) (relying on State v. Evangelista, 319 N.C. 152, 353 S.E.2d 375 (1987)).
Once invoked, the state can press for an examination, though it is often ordered by the Court sua sponte.
(a) If a defendant intends to raise the defense of insanity, the defendant must file a notice of the defendant’s intention to rely on the defense of insanity as provided in G.S. 15A-905(c) and, if the case is not subject to that section, within a reasonable time prior to trial. The court may for cause shown allow late filing of the notice or grant additional time to the parties to prepare for trial or make other appropriate orders.
(b) In cases not subject to the requirements of G.S. 15A-905(c), if a defendant intends to introduce expert testimony relating to a mental disease, defect, or other condition bearing upon the issue of whether the defendant had the mental state required for the offense charged, the defendant must within a reasonable time prior to trial file a notice of that intention. The court may for cause shown allow late filing of the notice or grant additional time to the parties to prepare for trial or make other appropriate orders.
(c) Upon motion of the defendant and with the consent of the State the court may conduct a hearing prior to the trial with regard to the defense of insanity at the time of the offense. If the court determines that the defendant has a valid defense of insanity with regard to any criminal charge, it may dismiss that charge, with prejudice, upon making a finding to that effect. The court’s denial of relief under this subsection is without prejudice to the defendant’s right to rely on the defense at trial. If the motion is denied, no reference to the hearing may be made at the trial, and recorded testimony or evidence taken at the hearing is not admissible as evidence at the trial. (1973, c. 1286, s. 1; 1977, c. 711, s. 25; 2004-154, s. 10.)
SOURCE: NBC
happypappies,
So does my local Church.
http://www.allpilgrims.org/
They don’t hide keys to the Gates of the Kingdom like those big gilded institutions do.
Max-1 wow I just “saw” you who you really were you know? Thank you for sharing that with me. I guess I fit in there because I am different.
I always think of Jesus Max – we did O Sacred Head Now Wounded tonight in Choir Practice and we are close to Lent you know. He took on all of our sins and pain and sorrow and still is there when we need him. And when I see this around here, I try so hard to remember His words, “Father forgive them, they know not what they do.”
I haven’t been so good at it lately but you being here and showing me that link and the secret garden gave me the forgiveness of self and others back and I thank you for that 😉
Paul C. Schulte
You are not a credible source of information concerning pedophilia. Your need to make pedophilia about gays speaks about your animus toward gays. Again, you are a bigot! NOT credible.
Max-1 – we were talking about a particular problem with a particular group. YOU are way to sensitive and defensive about pedophilia and gays. YOU know I am speaking truth to power, you just do not want to admit it.
Max-1
My Church marries gay people.
Karen
Much can be summed up about a person’s intent to frame billions of people for what a person does… And it begins with a “b” and ends with an “igot”.
Paul C. Schulte
I am perfectly fine with someone getting upset about a parking space.
= = =
Being that you are fine with parking space disputes… full stop –
One may assume you are also fine with disputes ending with a triple execution.
Max-1 – I don’t think I said that I approved of killing people over parking space disputes. Given that it was originally reported on here as a hate crime, my comment was only that I had no problem with seeing him killing them over a neighbor dispute over a parking spot. I do not approve of it, just that I can see it happening.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2948803/Man-arrested-3-shot-death-North-Carolina.html
If only we could remove our religious animus from our lives…
Davidm asked:
“would you say that without the ability of rational thought, there could never be any crime?”
People can commit crimes without thinking, for example, in the heat of passion, and this is considered 2nd degree murder as opposed to 1st degree murder or pre-meditated murder. Killing in the heat of passion is still a crime because the killer knew what he was doing but was unable to control his passions. The law therefore treats him as less blameworthy than the pre-meditated killer who was in full control of his actions. A person who cooly decides to kill is more of a threat to society than a killer who acts out of rage. Though a killer need not think much, it is necessary that he is rational. You cannot blame someone for killing who actually believes that god personally commanded him to kill. Everyone knows that anyone claiming to have heeded the voices in his head, i.e., god, is irrational and needs to be medicated. Atheists believe that people who think that a god hearkens to their voices are irrational as well. Society, however, medicates the former and not the latter because irrational people who talk to god are much less dangerous than those who claim that he talks back!
Jeff Silberman
When I pray
Maybe 3 times in my life – God talked back to me. In moments of dire need when I never expected it as I am an almost agnostic existential Christian.
When I asked him about all those horrible things he did in the name of love in the Bible and how was I supposed to have faith and pretend to believe that without being the biggest hypocrite imaginable, he said, don’t worry about it. When I said, what about all this nonsense about life everlasting that make no sense whatsoever, how can I have faith in something so absurd? He said, do you hear me now and want music in your life as the constant stream of music had disappeared, I said, yes, He said then, don’t worry about it. Just come to me when you need peace.
Of course I am not always distracted by music. But God did answer me back.
😉
Jeff Silberman, I’m trying to understand philosophically the basis of crime and its connection with the ability to think and make intelligent choices.
What about the case of a tiger or other animal that takes the life of someone. We would generally kill that animal because of its harmful action. It has nothing to do with intent. Why would we not have at least similar standards with people? Is mental health really something that should absolve someone completely from the guilt of obviously harmful actions?
Chuck Stanley said …
I am thinking this guy Craig Hicks may be cut from the same cloth as Harper and McElroy. If he hates everybody, then the legal theory of a hate crime for a specific case becomes a conundrum.
I have to agree with that comment. My instinct tells me it is a hate crime, but truly hateful people, who hate everybody does confuse the issue. Either way, three head shots makes me lean the way I do. It’s possible he might have executed 3 Baptists in the same fashion…then what do we call that? In short, point well taken.
Ari – here we go with another of the famous Orwellian Rants around here. They are tiresome as in like a sewer It is plain this was a hate crime hit. He might have been inflamed from an outside group that has not come to light if he was unstable. We do not know yet.
on 1, February 11, 2015 at 1:05 pm Richard
Pogo, I’m not sure what you expect most people living in peace to do. I don’t believe my neighbors, for example, have any more ability to affect the conduct of ISIS or other terrorist groups than you do.
on 1, February 11, 2015 at 1:33 pm Dave
Pogo:
Funny how you embrace skepticism and patience — “The cause for the murders has not yet been established” — and then demonize “extremist” Atheism that, here in reality, simply applies that same skeptical rationale to the unproved existence of a sky-dictator.
Atheism = not accepting the unsubstantiated claims of any and all theisms. It doesn’t dictate behavior or force a uniform worldview.
So for you to remain consistent, we should now organize and speak out against parking spots: because one may have inspired this lunatic.
on 1, February 11, 2015 at 1:38 pm Dave
DBQ:
“An empty parking spot is like Atheism. There is nothing there.”
I’ll take exquisite nothingness (nature is not nothing, by the way) over a universe saturated with a petty, clearly manmade sky-tyrant.
And it’s been said that Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair color.
on 1, February 11, 2015 at 1:43 pm Max-1
A voice from the grave…
on 1, February 11, 2015 at 1:44 pm Max-1
Annie,
At least we aren’t reading people cheering that three more Muslims just got sent home…
on 1, February 11, 2015 at 1:44 pm Pogo Hears a Who
Richard
“Pogo, I’m not sure what you expect most people living in peace to do. I don’t believe my neighbors, for example, have any more ability to affect the conduct of ISIS or other terrorist groups than you do.”
1. Stop raising and sending money to them.
2. Shut down the mosques where terror is preached. In the US.
In my little town in Minnesota, 2 Somali Muslim women were convicted of raising money to send to terrorists. Young men from their community went their to fight for Muslim terrorists.
When they quit doing that crap in a loud and obvious way, I’ll believe it.
on 1, February 11, 2015 at 1:44 pm Paul C. Schulte
Since this is really about a parking space, I would like the whole article corrected and get back to the parking space issue.
on 1, February 11, 2015 at 1:46 pm Pogo Hears a Who
“Funny how you embrace skepticism and patience — “The cause for the murders has not yet been established” — and then demonize “extremist” Atheism”
I am merely holding the leftists to their own standards (see Alinsky, Rule 4).
on 1, February 11, 2015 at 2:35 pm Pogo Hears a Who
“I gave you an example… and you took it as a truth.
Go on now… I thought you were moving on.”
Are you talking about a conversation in your head?
on 1, February 11, 2015 at 2:37 pm Pogo Hears a Who
on 1, February 11, 2015 at 2:46 pm Paul C. Schulte
Max-1 – I have no animus towards gays. You are well aware of my background. There was/is a Gay Mafia in the Vatican. It has been a real problem for the last 50-75 years. They have controlled the important bureaucratic posts. As a sidenote, they controlled the major seminaries in the United States for the same amount of time.
on 1, February 11, 2015 at 2:50 pm Inga
Correction: “There was a pedophile mafia in the Catholic Church”.
on 1, February 11, 2015 at 2:53 pm issac
Jim22
How could I possibly know? How could anyone possibly know?
on 1, February 11, 2015 at 3:14 pm Wadewilliams
Pogo
Regarding Catholic priests predations…..
Now please share with us your defense of the cover-ups and moving on to the next parish.
on 1, February 11, 2015 at 3:16 pm Pogo Hears a Who
“your defense of the cover-ups and moving on to the next parish.”
That’s sick, Wade.
Why would anyone defend that?
on 1, February 11, 2015 at 3:17 pm Trooper york
They weren’t pedophiles. They were gays abusers of adolescent boys. If there were no gay priests there would not have been a problem.
on 1, February 11, 2015 at 3:22 pm Wadewilliams
Suggested new headline…..
Open Carry Advocate has gun handy…..kills three.
on 1, February 11, 2015 at 3:23 pm Trooper york
The reason why they were moved from one parish to another was because it was one gay priest protecting another. The gay mafia as it were.
on 1, February 11, 2015 at 3:32 pm Wadewilliams
Trooper
So you state gay priests were the problem.
And what say you about those who enabled the continuation of the attacks – the bishops, archbishops, cardinals and popes? Any problem with them? Or were they just more of those nasty “gay priests”?
on 1, February 11, 2015 at 3:33 pm Inga
There were pedophile Priests who also molested little girls. There are adult men who are not gay that are actually married to adult women, who prey on little boys. It actually happens in Muslim societies too, don’t feel bad.
on 1, February 11, 2015 at 3:42 pm Wadewilliams
Inga,
Father Marcial.
Family man- how many children did he have? – and part of the gay mafia (I guess)
on 1, February 11, 2015 at 3:43 pm Pogo Hears a Who
It’s interesting that a case of an Atheist murdering 3 Muslims immediately devolves into leftist tu quoques about Catholics and Jews.
on 1, February 11, 2015 at 3:46 pm Wadewilliams
Boy. Those gay mafia priests sure had a lot of power……able to write checks to silence people of thousands of dollars.
That’s enough – I can’t stand anymore. I am going to have to go wash my brain out.
They are definitely hate crimes. Everything says he targeted them and shot them in the back of the head execution style.
I don’t even understand where all this other perverse human emotionalism comes in.
After reading what little credible information is available, my perspective comes from the experience gained evaluating the mental condition of several thousand killers. I suspect strongly there is a major mental health (or lack of it) issue. His constant anger and tendency to become enraged over every real or imagined slight is a “tell.” This may or may not have been a hate crime. From the sound of it, he had what cowboys call a “no cull policy” for targets of his hatred.
There have been some neighbors who have taken abusiveness and hatred to a previously unheard of level. Ken McElroy was one such man, until one day in 1981, his neighbors had enough. He was killed in public but there were “no witnesses” and no arrest has been made to this day.
John Harper, Jr. terrorized his neighbors for several years until former Navy Commander Danny Palm decided to put an end to Harper’s reign of terror in 1995. Palm was convicted of a lesser charge of involuntary manslaughter. He was released from prison in 2004.
I am thinking this guy Craig Hicks may be cut from the same cloth as Harper and McElroy. If he hates everybody, then the legal theory of a hate crime for a specific case becomes a conundrum.
Chuck – I am glad that you see fit to psychoanalyze on the strength of incomplete newspaper reports and sight unseen. Why don’t we wait until we see exactly what the parking dispute was before we call him a psychopath? Or sociopath? Or even psychoanalyze him?
My reaction is very simple: it was and is a hate crime. You do not shoot three people in the head one after the other without it being hate. After that first killing shot, you either react in horror, or you continue…that is intent. That is execution. One shot in the head might be not knowing right from wrong, but three, that is intentional murder, because there is no cause rising to justify such a level of anger or disconnection from reality. The first head snapping back cannot be ignored, even by a lunatic. The fact that all three victims were relatively orthodox Muslim is no coincidence. It is all about intent…and shooting three people of the same ethnicity and faith in the head, together no less, is a hate crime murder. It’s not momentary rage or anything related to atheism or religion, it is all about killing three people, one after the other, because of who and what they were. Period. No different than the attack in the Paris Kosher Deli. The three kids were killed because of who they were in general. That is unmitigated hate.
I may be wrong, and no doubt some defense legal team will conjure up excuses…but I assure you that you cannot shoot three people in the head one after the other with out intent. The guy may be nuts by some standard or another, but he knew exactly what he was doing…to one, then two, then three.
Karen says:
“In a similar vein, Catholics around the world were absolutely rabid at the scandal that ensured in the pedophile priest debacle. The behavior was universally and loudly condemned, and it was the reaction of their own congregation that led to changes within the Church, although more are needed.”
Universally? No. Critically, the RC Church fought the charges for years – as did their law firms. Further, not all parishioners were convinced that their beloved priest could have committed such acts and they still remain unconvinced. But yes, their own congregations finally did lead to reluctant acceptance by the Church that criminal acts had been widespread. But I don’t think all the shoes have dropped. Sexual predation is not exclusive to American men and it’s a big ol’ world out there.
Additionally, I’m uncomfortable with your theory about naming distinctions. I think it’s more complicated than that and your ‘let’s review’ and ‘clear things up’ and wonder how you will categorize the priests who told the child that this (rape) was God’s wish. Does that make him a Roman Catholic terrorist?
Chapel Hill shooting: My best friend was killed and I don’t know why
by Amira Ata
http://fusion.net/story/47569/chapel-hill-shooting-my-best-friend-was-killed-and-i-dont-know-why/
“I have so many questions for Hicks.
I know that he’s an aggressive man. That’s not the first we’ve heard from him. Hicks was their neighbor.
In October or November, we went to dinner at Yusor and Deah’s house. Right after we left, Yusor heard a knock at the door and it was Hicks. She told us he was angry and said we were noisy and there were two extra cars in the neighborhood. We used visitor parking but he was still mad. He said we woke up his wife. It wasn’t that dark yet. It wasn’t late. And it wasn’t that loud. We were playing a board game called Risk. I mean, I know I was mad because they were beating me at the game, but that was it. While he was at the door talking to Yusor, he was holding a rifle, she told me later. He didn’t point it at anyone, but he still had it. Yusor called to check on us after we left, to make sure he hadn’t approached us. We thought that was so weird—our neighbors don’t come to the door with guns! So when I heard the news it was shocking, but it wasn’t a surprise that it was the neighbor.
When I heard the news report and drove down there from Raleigh, I hoped it wasn’t anyone I knew. But I saw the apartment on the news and it was his apartment. If it wasn’t a hate crime, what was it? If you have a problem with your neighbors, you write a letter; you don’t shoot people. I think they were targeted because they were different. He was always so annoyed with them for little things. They are talking about a parking dispute online—that’s definitely not true.”
“There are probably multiple factors here and certainly mental health problems may be a part of it.” -old nurse
I agree.
And thanks for the additional information.
I am perfectly fine with someone getting upset about a parking space.
I’m telling you….in San Francisco parking spaces are like finding goldmines. You guard them with your life and if someone is in your space you either kill them…..or key their car and break their windows.
I’m not joking. The parking space wars in SF are real.
This is why I am glad I don’t live there anymore and I don’t have to visit since my daughter moved north of the Golden Gate.
🙂
How many times have we heard about those “social justice” progressive churches that accept gays as not being real Christians? Glenn Beck comes to mind. So what is it are they real Christians of not?
Let’s review, shall we?
If a Muslim hypothetically robs a bank, he is a bank robber. If he robs the bank, screaming, “The Qu’ran guides me to do this to please Allah!” then he is a Muslim bank robber.
If a Muslim becomes a domestic terrorist to destroy all puppy mills, then he is a domestic terrorist. If he does so screaming that he’s doing it because Islam commands him to do so, then he is a Muslim terrorist.
I hope this clears things up for those who have trouble with this distinction.
The pedophiles in the Catholic Church were specifically referred to as “pedophile priests” because their roles as clergy afforded them access. Similar distinctions would be “pedophile teachers.” The job was the important qualifier. The Catholic priests were not abusing children because Jesus told them to, so it wasn’t done in the name of Christianity; rather, like all pedophiles, they sought out jobs that gave them the trust and access to children. But that job was a critical qualifying adjective. It would be strange for the press to ban the adjective “priest” simply because most priests are not pedophiles.
In a similar vein, Catholics around the world were absolutely rabid at the scandal that ensured in the pedophile priest debacle. The behavior was universally and loudly condemned, and it was the reaction of their own congregation that led to changes within the Church, although more are needed.
In a similar vein, I believe that Jordan’s outrage and final rejection of ISIS will be critical in the fight. ISIS needs to be soundly rejected by Muslim nations. Prior to the pilot’s being slowly burned to death and then crushed by construction debris, Jordan was a prime recruiting ground for terrorists. I do not think they would have pledged to fight ISIS “until they ran out of bullets” if the person burned alive had been an American. But, better late to the fight than never. If all Muslim nations vowed to fight extremists until they ran out of ammunition, there would be no more threatening extremists. Problem solved. Now, why don’t world leaders just call me to solve their problems?
Max – there are Christian denominations that would welcome you as a gay man. If Catholicism was not a good fit, there are other Christian faiths that would be suited, should you so choose. Or moderate Judaism. Or any number of faiths.
On another note, hopefully people have learned after that embarrassing trend of claiming they “know” what happened in the Michael Brown shooting, only to be proven completely wrong. We need to wait for an investigation, and treat any conjecture as exactly that: conjecture.
I know there are conservative and libertarian atheists that would disagree with the “atheists are angry killers” meme, I think they should bad brave a speak up against this atheist smearing. I’m agnostic, but that doesn’t matter.
Wade, yes indeed. The atheist strawmen has been burned down. It’s the crazy ones with guns ya gotta worry about.
I am perfectly fine with someone getting upset about a parking space.
New Rules are about to be issued….
No longer any need to check for communists under your bed. Now that number one hiding spot has been overrun by the Atheists. Be sure to check every night.
Me? Atheists don’t worry me. Crazy people with guns on the other hand….