While the rest of the country has been trying to find a way to deter the savage game known as “knock out” (where men randomly punch pedestrians to see if they can knock them out), Judge William Mays in Quincy Illinois appears less than steadfast in his approach of the “game.” Mays had Lamar Coulter, 21, in his courtroom and a compelling record of what appeared two knock out crimes. Nevertheless, Mays let Coulter go without prison time — giving him probation instead.
Coulter was arrested after two separate incidents on June 27th of a 37-year-old man and two 18-year-old men who said that they were suddenly punched by a man who fled the scene in a car. Police arrested Coulter and Calvin L. Snell for robbery and the three men were taken to a hospital.
Even if one believes that this was not the knock out game, these were three assaults allegedly committed by Coulter and his friend. Even with no felony record, that is a pattern of violent acts that would seem to require something other than 24 months probation and 270 days in jail. The prosecutors had asked for four years in prison. With day-for-day good time credit, Coulter could be out in 90 days. Coulter was also ordered to pay $14,796 in restitution to the victims.
Coulter was apparently visiting Quincy with Snell, who was about to attend Quincy University (and seemed to celebrate his higher education by victimizing random people). Snell was expelled and he is scheduled to be sentenced next month.
This strikes me as a rather light sentence for violent acts even for a first offender.
What do you think?
No prison time for committing 3 acts of violence on innocent people? Enough is enough. Send his posterior to prison and train him for a real job–give him 2 years for each crime he committed.
Community service? It will still cost the public money to watch this man, however, I would give that a try first.
If we let violators continue to walk, we are excusing violence.
Tyger, That was me, I forgot to change my alias. I need lessons in being a sockpuppet from a pro. Anyone, anyone, Keebler, Feynman, Barry, the woman w/ 17 in one evening, anyone. LOL.
Tyger, I had many of your thoughts early in my career. Again, some criminals can change. Like alcoholics/addicts, and there is a big crossover in the demographics, the % is low, probably single digits.
Before they were sending every Tom, Dick and Harry to AA for a DUI, the recovery rate in AA was about 50%. It is probably much lower now. It is really low in rehab facilities.
“Coulter was apparently visiting Quincy with Snell, who was about to attend Quincy University (and seemed to celebrate his higher education by victimizing random people).”
I love the judgment and paternalism in this quote.
Really? You represent Congress. A body that has a rather bloody history of violence by people with higher education. Self awareness can be beautiful.
The sentence was fine.
Nick, I understand, and I appreciate your perspective. Perhaps going to prison for serious crimes and not being released until they are rehabilitated would provide the motivation to want to help themselves. No specified time for these types of crimes. No “I will be out in five years,” type of thinking. Maybe a limit of 10 or 20 years, then automatic termination for not being fit to live in a peaceful society. No exceptions for race, religion, sexual preference, or any other sort of excuse, so it’s not anything like “ethnic” cleansing. It’s “violence” cleansing. Instead, this human society simply makes an ineffective attempt to solve the problems like this, and tolerates whatever slips through the cracks. Have a different attitude starting way back in early schooling, and you would definitely get different, probably much better results in the long run.
Karen S,
#1. Carefully constructed written, verbal, and social conduct tests given periodically would indicate whether a criminal had been rehabilitated. Attitude, language, agressiveness, and various other factors would explain alot to specially trained psychologists. Yes, the final test is actual release and tracking. The greater penalty for repeating violent behavior would certainly help prevent further crime.
#2. I also advocate eliminating prison or jail time for much lesser offenses, such as marijuana use, prostitution, and other victimless “crimes”. With up to 75% of the prison population being in for drug offenses, that would free up an enormous, probably quite sufficient amount of bu0dget for the psychological treatments I suggest.
#3. It IS society’s fault for criminals repeating their crimes if the treatment society provides fails to do what it is meant to do. Prisons alone are failing this criteria. (I would say that society is also at fault for not preventing criminal behavior, or creating an environment which motivates criminal acts, or tolerates the bad behavior. Think: bullies in school, for example. But that’s a subject for another discussion.)
#4. An example that reinforces the concepts I propose.
#5. If the prison system successfully treated inmates so it was extremely rare that a convict who was released commited a crime again, businesses would not be wary of hiring an ex-con, since he or she would be no different than anyone else under consideration. With recidivism being greater than 70% for property, drug, and violent offenders, it’s no wonder that employers don’t want to hire anyone with a prison record. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/once-a-criminal-always-a-criminal/
Tyger, Having worked @ Leavenworth, the baddest of the bad, and as a juvenile probation officer, budding criminals, it is naïve to think rehabilitation is possible w/ the vast majority of criminals. Indeed, The Federal Bureau of Prisons has pretty much abandoned rehabilitation, unless an inmate shows motivation to help themselves. Forced rehabilitation is ludicrous. Just like drug or alcohol rehab is stupid unless the person has bottomed out and seeks help. Even then, it’s a longshot. 10% success rate, I believe.
Jim – that’s a tragic story. I’m sorry for what your son suffered. I believe the answer is making prisons safer, cutting down on inter-inmate violence, rather than abandoning prison terms altogether.
Squeaky – this may have been Polar Bearing. I don’t know if that applies here, but it is true that hate crimes are applied unequally.
I actually do not agree with most hate crime laws anymore, or additional sentencing if someone uses a firearm to kill someone. Murder should be the worst crime, and the killer should not get a lighter sentence because they took a long time to kill your loved one with a blunt object than if he killed her quickly with a gun. Dead is dead, and the sentence should only vary with things like premeditation. We should just focus on the crime itself instead of some races more protection than others, when all should be equal. I also think we need to ensure that sentencing guidelines are colorblind, as well, and only rely on facts such as prior crimes.
Tyger:
“Whether the sentence is for prison time, or time on probation, it should include intensive psychological and behavioral modification therapy, with the requirement of proof of true rehabilitation before release.”
#1 – What is proof of true rehabilitation? If a pedophile does not molest any children in prison, is he rehabilitated? Isn’t the only way to find out to see if they reoffend?
#2 – there are millions of people in prison. The cost of years of intense psychotherapy for people who may not want it would bring the entire country to its knees. Rehab does not work for addicts when they’re forced to go, and I wouldn’t think therapy would work for criminals who are forced to go, either. Someone has to want to change and actually do some of the work themselves. What program gets to lose money to force psychotherapy on criminals, even if they don’t want it? Food stamps? Medicare? Medicaid? The money would come from somewhere. You may have noticed that the latest budget in Congress would put us $500 billion more in debt. How much would this add?
#3 – If criminals want to stay out of jail they should stop breaking the law. It is not society’s fault if they offend, and it is not society’s fault if they re-offend.
#4 – your recidivism sentence of death reminds me of Turkey. My father worked with a Turk on one of his trips there who was honest to a fault. He had survived a Turkish prison, which is often a death sentence. Apparently, you just spend your time breaking big rocks into little rocks. The sentences are short but brutal. If you make it out, you never, ever break the law again.
#5 – you are right that a criminal record makes it more difficult to get a job. That’s why were are crazy Liberal attempts periodically to prevent employers from doing criminal background checks. The young and invincible youth often fail to realize that the consequences of misdeeds can be very long lasting, but justified. For example, a thief will have a hard time getting hired by a remodeler who often works in homes while the owners are away.
I would really like to see Obama come out for legalizing pot. He can’t rock the boat Hillary is in. It will have to go state by state with the feds last. After all it was Ronnie the big fed that really took the baton from Dick and created this prison industry/people destroyer.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2015/03/26/watch-president-sits-down-creator-wire-talk-about-war-drugs?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=email448-text1&utm_campaign=simon
Squeeky, race is irrelevant here. Violence is not connected to color of skin. Assault is a crime, no matter what color, religion, sexual preference, or any other intrinsic value is present in either the attacker or the victim.
Paul, the lack of depth in a violent criminal’s brain should make that treatment easier and more successful. Almost like a “no-brainer.”
Tyger –
Tyger, you are going to have to explain this. 🙂
Paul, maybe Tyger envisions some kind of Pavlovian conditioning would be all that is necessary?
Paul, and davidm2575, my comment was one of my usual (often too obtuse) jokes. You mentioned “Deep Brain Stimulation.” My reply suggested that violent criminals have shallow minds, so the treatment wouldn’t have to go very deep to be Deep Brain Stimulation for them. Almost a “no-brainer” would suggest that the next most shallow brain after a criminal mind would be no brain at all. It’s also an amusing word-play on that popular term in various contexts.
No, davidm2575, the psychological rehabilitation treatments I proposed further above would have to be based upon proven scientific approaches that would result in true behavior modification in the criminal. This would necessarily include psychological assessments and therapies along with educational techniques specifically designed to convert criminal thinking to socially acceptable thinking, which would lead to the subject becoming a happy and productive citizen of the community. Simply keeping criminals caged up does not accomplish this goal very well, if at all.
Tyger – I took you seriously. My bad.
What race were the victims??? I can’t seem to find out on the net??? Were they white? If so, why isn’t that fact mentioned. It is my understanding that most victims of this crap are white people.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
I’m in agreement with Mike. Prison IS for confinement to keep the criminal away from the rest of the population, AND more importantly, it is, or should be, for rehabilitation. If it isn’t, the criminal gets out and repeats the crime, or worse. A neighbor broke into my house and stole all my camera and computer equipment, plus everything else of value he could find. Two months later, his wife told me he did it after he had beat her up and pointed his gun at her threatening to kill her, and she came screaming to my door for help. She said he had been in prison for 13 years for burglary just months before.
Whether the sentence is for prison time, or time on probation, it should include intensive psychological and behavioral modification therapy, with the requirement of proof of true rehabilitation before release. In addition, if the criminal has no useful work skills, the sentence should include training in a field in demand, with a requirement of proficiency before release. Length of time in prison would not be set in so many years, but in whatever length of time it takes to become genuinely rehabilitated. If the justice system does not include this sort of mandatory treatment, the whole prison system fails in its mission as convicts get released, can’t get a job because of their record, and go back to what they had been doing previously. Instead, if prisons were doing their jobs, a criminal would be released on parole, and, being demonstrably rehabilitated and trained in a valuable work skill, he or she would be able to get a good job and be assimilated back into society. Then, being a trusted and valued citizen again, it would not be worth it to the ex-con to commit another crime and go back to prison.
As an additional incentive to become successfully rehabilitated and trained, as well as a deterrent to continuing to commit criminal behavior, the required sentence for a second conviction of violent crime should be execution. Your society would quickly cleanse itself of the dangerous turd-balls who kill and injure innocent regular citizens, making your world a better place to live. And THAT should be the goal of the prison system.
Prison makes the problem worse.
Jane, your comments are right on board with my thoughts. Prison doesn’t work. I’m 64 years old. I used to support building prisons. I changed my mind when my son was raped in a Texas prison last November. He had to go to the emergency room to have the tears in his rectum sutured. The prison maintains it was “consensual sex”. And, there is nothing I can do, NOTHING.
Scanning the comments…. I see suggestions such as ….
bring back slavery
direct revenge by the populace
give the perp Parkinson’s
I am as afraid of “normal folks” as I am of these “knockout” guys.
Please tell me what you think prison time will accomplish ?
By the way …. I have no idea what to do with crazy violent people…. especially people in government. I would not give them *more* power.
99guspuppet
I have just come back from a conference where they were reporting using Deep Brain Stimulation for violent offenders someplace in Europe. They were reporting success.
Give him probation……if he commits another violent crime execute him.
I am in agreement with the person who was against long term incarceration…….it costs society money to make bad men worse.
To paraphrase Dr Lecter……half-measures are the problem….. Any rational society would either kill men like this or put them to some use…….
On the street is the best place for this animal now that Americans have a pic of him and his general location…We, the People are, after all, the final arbiters of justice in the land.
Like I said, study him, try and figure out if he can be fixed, perhaps society can learn enough to head off another sociopath like him, let that be his contribution to society, if it doesn’t work, lock him up and keep him away from pedestrians.