I recently posted a blog column about the increasing appearance of graffiti in national and state parks — and the need to ramp up punishments to deter this defacing of our natural wonders and wilderness. The last story concerned Andre Saraiva, an internationally known graffiti artist, who “tagged” and bragged about his own defacing of nature. He spray painted a boulder at the Joshua Tree National Park. Now authorities are looking for a teen who spray painted a rock face in Idaho to impress a girl and get her to go with him to the school prom. It should not be too different to investigate this particular crime, but the question remains the punishment that should be meted out.
The teenager painted the message “Destiny, Prom?” on the side of the Black Cliffs, in a popular rock climbing spot in Boise. Such acts remain misdemeanors, though that can result in up to six months in jail and a fine of $1,000.
As I noted earlier, there is a need to increase punishment to overcome a lower detection rate for these crimes — the relationship between punishment and detection is at the heart of deterrence theory. In my view, people have to go to jail more regularly to deter this crime. I feel the same way about the two Americans who recently defaced the Roman Colosseum. I also strongly believe that the Italians and other government need to release the names of such people.
However, the fact that this is a teenager would weigh in the balance. I still believe that a short jail time might be instructive but I draw a difference between a stupid, love-struck kid and a vanity-driven adult like Saraiva. Even for the teen, there should be a sanction (at least a long community service at the park in cleaning up areas) and a heavy fine if we are going to deter this crime. The victim is not simply the public but the ultimately voiceless victim in nature itself. Absent a serious deterring punishment, this type of defacement will continue — fueled by adolescent carelessness and, in the case of Saraiva, all-consuming narcissistic vanity.
By the way, Destiny, this guy is a total loser. You have better options, even if it means taking your Dad.
Kudos: Professor Roger Schechter
Source: NY Post
Dog
The extreme light sentence should be to pay the cost of fixing the f*ck up. The extreme harsh sentence should be to clean it up and pay a fine commensurate with the cost of the entire affair. This is about a prom so I suspect his parents will be tapped. This does not merit a criminal record, but the public should not pay a penny and the kid should be imprinted with the results of the act and more importantly it should be publicized well enough to detour other idiots.
Paul
Lots of people admired the Nazis. They were anti-communist. They borrowed tons of money from the West and rebuilt Germany, making the lenders buckets of money. On Paper they seemed like the right thing for the right time. However, the grandfather of the midget cowboy was their banker well into 1942 and only stopped because the government told him to. People can be wrong and then they can be just down right evil.
issac – since Canadians are wannabe cowboys I wouldn’t talk about cowboys. And how dare you disparage the vertically challenged. That is pure bigotry. Can you cite me to a connection to an ancestor Bush and Hitler?
If there is a risk in removing the paint then there is a risk in spraying it on. It will just take longer to remove it. Fifty days in jail, time served for each successful day of cleaning the paint off and time served credited when all the paint is off within fifty days. If he is not done removing it in fifty days then its off to jail. No proms. Leave the terms vague as described here.
Nick
Again; your lineage, experiences, friends, directly related or in directly related stories of what it means to be an American do nothing to bolster your opinions.
You come across as that good ole boy who says, “You’re not from around here, are ya boy?” when some one questions the habits of the locals.
The Kennedy’s were like any other political family, some skeletons in the closet but basically serving their people. Both Joe Kennedy and Bush’s grandfather admired the Nazis. The difference is that Bush’s grandfather was their banker well into the war, 1942. It is a question of degrees. John Kennedy and his brother played the game with all the dirty moves that are necessary, but the issues they represented and fought for were the backbone of America. Compare with any Republican since.
Bobby Kennedy both his good and his bad represents the reality of America. John Wayne represents an illusion based on a time that may or may not have existed. What’s wrong with America today is that too many people base their politics on the illusion and not the reality. You take the ‘close to the trees’ perspective. Try stepping back and reviewing the forest.
By the way, we all have chips. Read some of your posts.
issac – FDR and Charles Linburgh admired the Nazis, too.
Isaac, That chip is growing larger. It is preventing you from being able to read. It is not the length of time I spoke about. It is having a family experience helping w/ the transition. It’s having a wise father, uncles, grandparents help you know it’s OK to love the ancestral country but see yourself as an American as well. You got a lotta baggage, dude. And it is appearing more and more like it has less to do w/ America and a lot to do w/ you and your personal experience.
There’s an Italian guy I know. He was born in Sicily and moved to the US as a teenager. He was sponsored by a cousin in the US who treated him like sh!t. This guy is now almost 70. He has lived here over 50 years. He still speaks w/ a heavy accent. He refuses to eat American food. He refuses to accept American sports. He considers himself Italian. He has A HUGE chip on his shoulder. You remind me of him. He’s not a happy man. And, WTF did John Wayne ever do to you? Bobby Kennedy was a fraud and his kids are worthless. The Duke is not my hero. He is the hero of a commenter here however. You need to choose your heroes more wisely, bro. I can’t say I have any heroes really. Having investigated people for almost 40 years now I know we are all flawed. The Kennedy family are despicable. Most everyone knows that by now. Read a little more, worship a lot less. And, lose the freakin’ chip, bro. It’s weighing you down.
A rose with a note card… A cliff face with spray paint.
Has the American youth lost their edge with romance?
Neanderthals may have been quite nice folks…. nicer than modern man perhaps
Nick
I find your position of refuting what I say as valid because I have not lived in the US long enough. I grew up in Canada, France, and the US. I am still growing up. The one consistent observation I have experienced in Canada and France is that most Americans know less about the US than do Canadians or even the French. When I lived in France there were many conversations about how American judges, sheriffs, etc were elected, etc. Living in the US I have found most Americans to be blissfully ignorant. It was even more obvious in Canada. However, we saw the difference between the John Wayne interpretation of the US and the Bobby Kennedy one. You may be learned and certainly are opinionated, as are most of those who post on this blog, however, you do not speak for Americans in general.
I have studied the US, its history, and its major players. Because I have a different opinion than you is not because I don’t understand. It is because I do understand what it means to be an American, a Canadian, and French. There is precious little difference, if any. But if you need that minuscule difference then so be it. For me, right is right and wrong is wrong. What makes sense, makes sense regardless of where it is. If the US is wrong, then it must repair itself. If it is right then great, but that doesn’t exempt it when it is wrong.
So, stop retreating into that ‘more American’ stance.
Hey Beldar,
“Send us your real name and my friends here in New Orleans will enshrine you on shithouse wall.”
Let me try to put this in language a stone age thinker like you might understand:
Yabba Dabba Doo!
Is the area high off of the ground, making it dangerous to clean without the necessary equipment and training? If so, it would be unwise to require the kid to clean it up himself, even if it would be a good lesson for him.
I want to say, who cares, he got up there in the first place. If he falls to bad.
However, that would lead to a law suit and cost the public even more money.
He should be forced to PAY for the cost of the clean up and stand on a public street corner with a big sandwich board sign, declaring what an idiot he is and have a photo display.
Maybe it says DESTINY, PROM?
But it meant DENSITY, Programmable Read-Only Memory?
A cry for digital help in the brush.
It is assumed he is a teenager because it appears an invitation to the prom. Thus it is somewhat safe to assume he is between the age of 14 and 19. So he could be an adult. Why make the parent pay if he is an adult? And there I go assuming it is a guy. Perhaps it is a girl asking another girl out. Or perhaps Destiny is a boy. Or perhaps it has nothing to do with a High School prom. Time will tell. Here is what it is…Large bright letters on a cliff face that will not look the same 100 years from now. Even if you use a 3 inch knife to scrape every last bit of paint off the rock, you will be left with rock that is now a different color than it was previously.
To all those that think this is no big deal, will you offer up your house/apartment, your windows on your house, or your roof to local graffiti artists.
Paul – does Destiny know who is asking her to the prom?
Karen S
Having him scrub the rocks, himself, is a great idea; however, the picture in the article doesn’t give enough detail. Is the area high off of the ground, making it dangerous to clean without the necessary equipment and training? If so, it would be unwise to require the kid to clean it up himself, even if it would be a good lesson for him. A better solution would be to require him, or his parents, to pay for a professional team to do this. Don’t give this kid and his parents an opportunity to cry that he was injured performing court ordered clean up and sue. Restitution, probation and community service, in the form of lecturing his peers about respecting nature and the property of others, would be appropriate.
I think the punishment for this kid should be scrubbing this off the rocks. That should take him a while and impress upon him why this act was wrong. But no jail time for a kid.
DBQ, The late, fascist, J Edgar Hoover would abide Obama’s wanting a national police. Just sayn’.
Isaac, There is much we agree on, and some fundamental aspects of the US on which we disagree. I am not a “love it or leave it” or “we are always right.” Hopefully you understand that? America is different. We were formed differently. We are geographically different. We are a nation of incredibly different people. All 4 of my grandparents were immigrants. I was brought up w/ their traditions. I was part of the transition that many 2nd generation kids experience. Italian was spoken in my grandma’s home. My father was derisive toward Americans in the way they eat. He would rant about the horseshit food they eat. Then that stopped abruptly. He knew his 4 kids would go to college and become part of the American Dream. So, without giving a reason, when his kids were grades 4-8, the American bashing stopped. Now, my old man loved America’s politics, history, economy, diversity[he grew up in a Polish neighborhood, most of his friends were Pollacks] and just about everything about this country. My grandparents did as well. NO ONE loved this country more than my grandpa. He came here w/ nothing and started a restaurant business that would last 60 years. But, they knew the flaws of this country as well. Like the vast majority of 2nd generation Americans, I had a family to help me make that transition. From what I can glean, you have a different experience. I don’t think you had that gradual transition. It shows in your attitude.
Destiny, the guy is NOT a loser. Any guy who is going to climb up a cliff and declare himself publically for you is not a loser. He and she should be elected prom king and queen.
Oops. I guess I should have written this in the daily bad police thread. 🙁
However, the issues still stand.
@ isaac
The problems/issues that I see with this current micro focusing on the bad cops are several.
1. I do not believe the problem is as widespread as we are being led to believe. Are there bad cops. Yes. Just as there are bad stockbrokers. However, that doesn’t mean ALL police departments are bad, all cops are bad, all stockbroker firms are bad. The reason we are being led to believe this is the 24/7 hysterical focus by the media.
2. There is an underlying agenda from the Obama Administration and others on the left to try to establish a National Police force or to nationalize police departments across the country. Obama indicated he wanted a “civilian national security force”. This just REEKS of a Brown Shirt type of system.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s
Somewhat breathless but still something to think about. http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/47844
3. Creating an emergency when there isn’t necessarily a systemic problem is one way to get a Nationalized Police force. Gull the people into thinking that there is an emergency when the problems are localized and not as pervasive as they want you to think.
4. Nationalizing local police and sheriff departments is not needed as many areas are more than adequately served. We don’t need a militarized top down type of police force. Each locality is different and has different needs.
5. A nationalized police force would be even LESS accountable for their actions than one controlled by the local population. When has a national agency ever been more effective or more accountable or more responsive on a local level? Never.
6. It would be a violation of the 10th Amendment by removing local control and State control.
As we give up more and more of our Amendment Rights, we become less and less free. Unaccountable faceless bureaucrats who make decisions for which we have no recourse or any input.
If you aren’t disturbed by the idea of a Nationalized Police force being directed by a centralized government instead of by local control, you are not thinking of the long term consequences. I don’t want to live in a police state like pre Nazi Germany or like many socialist countries where the police work for the government and not for the people.
IF there are problems with police departments, with individual bad cops, then we should deal with that and not turn our country into something that was never envisioned and that would be UN Constitutional.
A lawyer does not have to think or deal in absolutes. For this punk here the solution can be one of mixed punishment with unmixed results. Give him the tools to remove the paint and set up a tent right there on site with a guard over him 24/7. Make him eat what he hates. No booze. No proms. Give him 30 days to remove the paint. If it is not all gone then cut his hands off.