We have been discussing the crackdown on free speech in the West, particularly in England, France, and Canada. It is a rising concern that seems to be lost on Montana legislators and prosecutors who want to follow the path of speech criminalization. The Montana criminal defamation statute criminalizes speech that exposes religious, racial, and other groups — “to hatred, contempt, ridicule, degradation, or disgrace” — an absurdly broad standard that would make a Sharia judge blush.
I have long been a critic of the criminalization of symbols and gestures, even deeply offensive symbols like Nazi gestures. Europe has plunged into speech regulation and criminalization – showing that such laws create a slippery slope for the criminalization of unpopular speech. This course inevitably leads to increasing — and increasingly absurd — speech crimes. For example, I fail to see how arresting a man for a Hitler ringtone is achieving a meaningful level of deterrence, even if you ignore the free speech implications.
The problem is trying to draw such lines rather than embracing free speech as protecting not just popular but unpopular and even hateful speech. Once you start as a government to criminalize speech, you end up on a slippery slope of censorship. What constitutes hate speech remains a highly subjective matter and we have seen a steady expansion of prohibited terms and words and gestures. We have been following (here and here and and and here and and here and here) the worsening situation in England concerning free speech. As noted in a recent column, free speech appears to be dying in the West with the increasing criminalization of speech under discrimination, hate, and blasphemy laws.
My friend Eugene Volokh has a good piece on the Montana law. It includes a type of group libel claim that has always been problematic in torts. Criminal defamation and hate crime cases have presented the greatest threat to free speech. Indeed, Muslim countries that have long fought for an international blasphemy standard has latched on to the same approach as Montana to criminalize anti-Islamic speech. Unputting aside the questions constitutionality of such laws, Montana seems utterly unconcerned about the implications of this criminalization effort.
Source: Washington Post
issac
The Constitution NEVER changes.
That’s why we still have slavery.
That’s why women can’t vote.
That’s why Spinelli is a reactionary.
I haven’t followed it closely, but it does sound like China is buying up Africa. However, our exploitation of Latin, Central and South America included military and political involvement. That makes our imperialism more aggressive. Also, are there, or have there been, Chinese troops landing in any African country?
Be that as it may…
My intention was to suggest that our imperialism was a lot more than the Philippines as was suggested earlier. Odd, isn’t it, that our history books don’t cover this…
There was a Spanish-American War that required troops in the Philippines and an insurrection that needed troops. I am sure it doesn’t count, but my uncle died defending the Philippines. Then during the end of WWII we reconquered the Philippines at great cost to American troops.
Harry, LOL.
Isaac, When I have a witness talking I will sometimes sit quietly and let them hang themselves. I can prompt you to comment and you almost never disappoint. You see, the more you talk, the more I and others see your lack of knowledge on the US Constitution. I know you think you understand the Constitution. And, I know you would pass a polygraph. But, what makes this country the oldest democracy is WE do not think like you. There are certain principles that NEVER change. Your flawed thinking on the 1st Amendment is what frightens JT, myself, and all people who understand that while a culture needs to evolve, it must NEVER give up its core principles. You have many 2nd Amendment haters that agree w/ you. Fortunately, SCOTUS doesn’t. I’m not a gun lover. I own one. But, as this country gets more lawless, I see the folks of your ilk coming over to the righteous view, that guns are necessary. Nothing stops someone quicker than the click of a gun. I know, I’ve been shot @ twice. I only heard the click on one of those instances. Neither time did I have a gun. I do now. It is my Constitutional right.
ching-chong, chinaman!…the oriental opium smokin’ days are over!…white is right baby!
Karen weeps, weeps I tells ya, for these posts about terrible injustices, plagues, useless, failed HIV medical advances, abused children, rushes to judgement, oppressed women, cruel Islamists, animal torturers.
But American imperialism is just ancient, ancient, ancient history. United Fruit is just a banana. The School of the Americas was just a bunch of boys playing in the woods. The Banana Wars aren’t worth discussing. Our propping up of dictators was a big nothing. We never sent troops to the DR, Haiti, Greneda, or Panama. All natives working for Dole, United Fruit, and Chiquita were always treated with respect and received a fair wage. No native was ever pushed from their land. United Fruit was a non-profit. No American ever got rich. No Central American ever was so abused that they sought redress in the courts. The CIA never played a role in regime change. No priests or nuns were murdered by American supported right-wing death squads. No laws were broken by Oliver North.
Just dumb old myths that have nothing to do with the United States of America!
PS And besides, if anything bad did happen, it was not nearly as bad as the Belgium Congo.
So the American were doing what the Chinese are now doing. Hmmm.
Wade, Nobody denies the fact of US intervention in other countries affairs, and virtually every country on Earth does that in some form or other. The prime question that kicked this off was that the US did NOT establish owned colonies in foreign lands as most other powers did with the noted exceptions. So the US has and is doing a lot of bad things in foreign lands, but compared to others, the US comes out looking better than the rest. When the Soviet Union was breaking up, I was waiting for them to insist that Hawaii get its independence too since the US did the same there as Stalin did to the Baltics. Then in Puerto RIco, in the 30s there was a mass independence movement which was militarily crushed by the US Army and Air force. The new governors then set about looting the place and transferring most of the productive assets to themselves. but the US did not have anything like the British Empire or French or German ones. That was the main point. Not that the US is squeaky clean in our history.
In Karen’s book, Cain killed Abel.
Everything after that is fluff.
I believe someone mentioned Hawaii as an example of American Imperialism.
The first settlers of what is now known as the Hawaiian Islands were the Marquesasians (although it might have been a trading post to other peoples.) In the 1200s, Tahitians conquered and enslaved the Marquesasians. So it is disingenuous to condemn our past behavior while ignoring basically all of mankind’s evolution of society.
Show me a civilization since the Dawn of Man, and I will show you someone who conquered land, displaced those there before it, and held that land or expanded it.
American Imperialism. British Imperialism. Portuguese Imperialism. French Imperialism. Spanish Imperialism.
It appears that people are completely unaware of the fact that throughout our human history, we have warred for resources. When the American Indians required vast areas of land to support their hunter gatherer tribes (as opposed to the few tribes that cultivated land long term), then when the herds moved on, so did they. If those herds moved on to land held by rival tribes, then they went to war, killed/enslaved the other tribes, and they took the land they needed. It was the human condition and existential fight for survival.
I tire of our being anachronistically judged for our actions hundreds of years ago by today’s standards, to the exclusion of all other contemporary players.
Isaac – the “well regulated militia” question has been answered. It is not ambiguous. In addition, the founding fathers realized the importance of an armed citizenry, having JUST USED an armed citizenry to overthrow a tyrant. A disarmed populace is at the tender mercy of their king, and kings have no mercy when the people have no power.
What a terrible law. I hope it’s struck down. We won’t have our freedoms for long if we keep giving them away.
Nick
I understand that the Constitution was delivered around 240 years ago in a different time and place. Geographically there is a bit of a link to the present but in all ways, much has changed. The 2nd amendment has been interpreted recently to mean perhaps what the founding fathers meant but probably not. The ambiguity of ‘a well regulated militia’ and people having the right to bear arms is obvious to all but those who wish to arm themselves to the teeth. The Supreme Court with another flavor could just as easily interpret the 2nd amendment to come with reasonable restrictions, perhaps obligatory education, licensing, etc. There is nothing in the 2nd amendment that pertains to the US today. It pertains to a people that were up against one foreign enemy and could expect others. It pertains to flintlocks. It has nothing to do with assault weapons, Glocks, etc. or protecting the population from an elected government. My understanding of the 2nd amendment is second to none. It is the ambiguity of the 2nd amendment itself that needs to be addressed.
Regarding free speech, again the context of the moment is equally important to something that was written as an ideal 240 years ago. There have been and will always be times when what one says will not be protected by the right to free speech. Regardless of your ownership of the Constitution, in your mind, the ideal and the realistic are not always in sync. America as all countries is a work in progress. With rights come responsibilities. I wonder how the founding fathers would feel when the sacred right to free speech was dragged through the mud by those with such base and disgusting intents.
The Constitution by its very nature represents ideals and not absolutes. For it to represent absolutes it would have to contain every variation imaginable. The one strength of some of our peer nations is that they continue to craft their written and sacred guidelines as they evolve as a society. The US should take note and understand that as a society evolves so must its foundations, lest they become relics only.
Look around the world and you will notice many examples of peoples either forced or on their own following stuff written hundreds and sometimes thousands of years ago. In every case that which has been left alone as sacred has been subject to interpretation and perversion to suit the flavor of the day.
Wade Willy —–We going to Amazon for turtle crackers?
Always Wrong
It’s history and your best day was when you got kicked out of class, so we won’t go far. Let’s keep it simple and start here:.
‘Thomas Jefferson, in the 1790s, awaited the fall of the Spanish empire “until our population can be sufficiently advanced to gain it from them piece by piece.”[6][7] In turn, historian Sidney Lens notes that “the urge for expansion – at the expense of other peoples – goes back to the beginnings of the United States itself.”[4] Yale historian Paul Kennedy put it, “From the time the first settlers arrived in Virginia from England and started moving westward, this was an imperial nation, a conquering nation.” [8]
In the late nineteenth century, foreign territories such as Hawaii and Latin America were sought after by the United States. The Teller Amendment and the Platt Amendment were used in unison to grant the United States the right to intervene in those territories if that particular government was deemed unfit to rule itself. The American government now held the power to both criticize and occupy these nations if they were deemed to be unstable.
Stuart Creighton Miller says that the public’s sense of innocence about Realpolitik impairs popular recognition of U.S. imperial conduct. The resistance to actively occupying foreign territory has led to policies of exerting influence via other means, including governing other countries via surrogates or puppet regimes, where domestically unpopular governments survive only through U.S. support.[9]
The maximum geographical extension of American direct political and military control happened in the aftermath of World War II, in the period after the surrender and occupations of Germany and Austria in May and later Japan and Korea in September 1945 and before the independence of the Philippines in July 1946.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_imperialism
Yeah. I know you don’t like Wiki.
Post your own argument that our only imperialist actions were Hawaii and the Philippines. All the rest of the stuff that I mentioned doesn’t count. Perhaps you can find a few Mexicans, Central Americans, and Cubans who will back you up. Maybe there are a few dictators that are still alive who will sing our praises.
If I buy a car does that make me an imperialist? If I buy a house? A ranch? A ranchero? We paid for all of California, Arizona, New Mexico. Texas was a country so we didn’t have to pay for that, we just annexed them. We have offered to buy another section of the Gulf of California but Mexico will not sell it.
I know there are some historians who believe that there was American Imperialism, however, I think the evidence is weak, especially compared to the European Imperialistic powers.
BTW, if you have not seen it and you want to watch a fun movie about European Imperialism, watch Black and White in Color.
Well this is pretty interesting….
Generally speaking, we have nine Scotus justices that do not agree on the Constitution. We have many more federal justices that do not agree on the Constitution. We have many, many more legislators, governors, and congresscritters who do not agree on the Constitution. BUT we are lucky to have here, right on this site, a high school social studies teacher with one year of teaching experience, who will tutor issac!
issac. You are one lucky fellow.
forgotwhoiam – you cannot impeach a state.
randyjet
Haiti, Central and South America, Panama, United Fruit Company, Hawaii, Texas, New Mexico, California, Gadsden Purchase….
We have a lengthy history of imperialism. It’s just more nuanced than Great Britain or Belgium.
There is a difference between expansionism and imperialism. I will agree on Hawaii.
Isaac, Your sarcasm and lack of response is an admission of guilt, that you do not understand our Constitution. That’s OK, you are conflicted as to who you are. I find people who don’t have a strong understanding of themselves tend to not understand their culture and world around them as well. You have a very poor understanding on the 1st and 2nd Amendments, and only a fair understanding of our Constitution as a whole. Actually, I’m not certain you consider it “our” Constitution. I am a certified high school social studies teacher and would be happy to tutor you online. Or, you can remain ignorant and smug. You do have smug down well. I attribute that to your years in France.
I think people are fed up with calling “free speech” as an excuse for disgusting events. Burning the flag is a prank having nothing to do with political speech, but getting TV coverage. To me, free speech is being made a mockery. Instead of being held as a right to oppose governance, it’s being used to OK violence and foolishness. And when it isn’t true (Michael Brown Hands Up) it hurts the society in total.
De facto implementation of the principles derived from the Communist Manifesto.
Pretense that the Preamble, Constitution and Bill of Rights bear on the American experience.
The only entity that cannot read and comprehend the founding documents is the Supreme Court.
Montana should be impeached for insurrection and treason as “high crimes and misdemeanors.”
“…shall make no law…abridging the freedom of speech…”
There goes Nick, ‘splainin things again.
I get sucked in every now and then but eventually I ‘got out the popcorn’ and read for amusement. Lately I’ve just been skipping over the drivel. It seems that some of our more interesting contributors have since drifted away, too bad.