Day Four in London captured the wonderful diversity of London. We began at the lively flea markets of Camden and then went to see the antiquities of the renowned British Museum. Along the way was some great meals and we met some even greater people.
The Camden market near the Camden Lock has been a major draw for the city every Sunday for decades. In the winding and interconnected stalls are crafts, clothing, bric-a-brac, and sundry items. We started with the help of another wonderful Londoner. The Tube employees are incredibly helpful and knowledgeable. When we asked one employee about a good place for fish and chips in the area, he immediately found a map and drew circles around six recommended places within a ten minute walk. He then got on his cell phone and searched for his favorite but then said that it was closed. He would have researched all six if we did not stop him out of guilt in turning him into our personal Tube concierge. However, he was the perfect example of what we have found everywhere in London: incredibly warm and helpful people from strangers on the street to city employees to police. We proceeded to the market which has businesses with oversized items identifying their wares on their facades. You can spend hours just people watching from Sid Vicious lookalikes to proper gents walking mastiffs. Here are a few pictures:
We then went to the British Museum where we spent most of the day. The Egyptian collection is of course extraordinary though I took particular interest in the Assyrian collection which came from Mosul. Had these pieces not been removed, they would have been destroyed by ISIS. The pieces captured the huge loss to these extremists who want to destroy all art and history that does not worship Allah or the teachings of Islam. It is ironic that the premise of Lord Elgin in taking the famed Elgin Marbles from Greece could be viewed as vindicated on some level by the ISIS destruction of whole ancient cities and museum collections.
We saw the Rosetta Stone, the Marbles, and other highlights. This included the famed Lindow man who was found in a bog in Northwest England. He died between 2 BC and AD 119 at about 25 years of age. Extensive testing shows that he was struck on the top of his head twice with a heavy object like an axe and given a vicious blow in the back that broke one of his ribs. He also had a thin cord tied around his neck which may have been used to strangle him and break his neck. After death, his throat was cut.
We had lunch in the restaurant at the top of the great hall, which was actually pretty good, including a fairly good Spanish wine featured with lunch. The audio tour guide is excellent and admission is free.
After a brief return to the hotel, we then went across town to try a neighborhood Indian restaurant (which is called a “curry house” here). I had read some intriguing things about the restaurant and wanted to try it out after hitting some of the more traditional places in the Central London. “Taste of Nawab” is a bit of a hike in North London (we took a very expensive cab ride from the Shard of about 45 minutes only to have the owner tell us that we could take a double decker bus from the front of his restaurant to virtually the front of our hotel with our pre-paid oyster card).
We have been looking for authentic Indian food with a variety of different influences. We found it in this tiny restaurant buried away in a corner of London. It is truly tiny with just about eight tables. You do not come for the ambience. The television is blaring in the background and people come in and out for take out. When you walk in, you wonder what possessed you to trek this far for a place that looks like a Greyhound coffee shop. Then the food arrives and you thank your brilliant judgment.
Nawab (meaning “prince”) is a Bengali restaurant. While Leslie and I are avid Indian food fans, the Bengali restaurants are less common in our area so this was a particular treat. We were met by Abdul Rahman in the empty restaurant. (We made reservations by proved the only people there from 8:30 to 10:00). He is incredibly charming and shows the legendary Bengali generosity and attention for guests. There is a home feel to the restaurant. We stated with Papadum bread which is one of the few non-bengali elements (the Bengali prefer rice). However the bread is used to consume started sauces including an addictive Nawab sauce that is the specialty of the restaurant. They consumed all of the bread and Nawab mashano (an assortment plate) with an Indian beer made in London called Cobra that is very very good. The samosa — one of my favorite Indian dishes — was very different in appearance with phyllo and looked more like a spanakopita. The Burmese-style samosa is often triangular like this with the thin dough. My understanding is that the West Bengali cooks make shingaras much like the samosas. Frankly, I prefer the more traditional samosa but the filing was another wonderful mixed of meat and spices).
For dinner we had Saag bhaji, which is a spinach dish which was the hit of the evening. It was awesome with unique spices and done perfectly. We also have Korai lamb which had spices that I had never encountered — hot and yet almost a non-sweet chocolate taste. It was outstanding. We also had Kasha muruge masala (chicken). The spices and favors were complex and seemed to evolve and change. We were stuffed and loved it all. It was a truly different cuisine option for those looking for new Indian approaches. My only suggestions is that the rice was not particularly flavorful and the Nan (garlic) bread was incredibly tasty but a bit too oily. For those (like us) trying different Indian restaurants in London (famous of its curry houses), this is a very good option. It is worth the trip.
After finishing, Abdul walked us across the street and offered to stand and wait while we sat in the restaurant to avoid getting cold. We declined but it was an example of his approach to service. He even offered to run back and give us a container of the Nawab cause and bread for our journey. We again declined since we could not finish all of the ample dinner that he laid before us. We rode back stuffed on the top of a double decker bus. This is a very affordable and creative Indian restaurant for those with an adventurous bent to voyage outside of the confines of Londontown and the more conventional curry houses.
Paul
Provenance is a word as meaningless as any other when one possesses the items and the rightful owner cannot get them back.
dagada2glendive
Had it not been for a lot of things a lot of things would be different. I think it was Paul who responded to a drift I had of ifs and ands with ‘If my aunt had balls, she’d be my uncle.’
I always prefer ‘If ifs and ands were pots and pans, the world would need no tinkers.’ Saint Joan, Bernard Shaw.
If one notices anything about the post apocalyptic world that we live in, it is that old wrongs are being redressed, old crimes are being acknowledged, and loot is being returned. There is probably no greater example of loot that should be returned than the marbles of the Parthenon. Firstly they were not obtained with the permission of the rightful owners, secondly they represent the golden era of the pinnacle of Western Civilization, and thirdly those that reside in the British Museum represent less than 50% of the total. The rest are in Athens either on the Parthenon or in the Museum of the Acropolis.
One can always find a fragment of a point on which to revolve an argument but so far the only side with any weight, in my opinion or as I see it, are the Greeks. A person should be able to visit Athens and see as much of ‘that’ there as one can. There is something perverse in viewing them in the British Museum. It is a unique perversity, peculiar to the marbles, but a perversity nevertheless.
issac – let’s get this straight. The Parthenon was built as the treasury for the Delian League. Then it became a Christian church, then a mosque, while as a mosque the Muslims stored ammo there and the Venetians blew the roof and some of the parts off.
I am not seeing anything sacred about this building as far as the Greeks go.
The Canuck is obsessing on fruit. I got the Blackhawks winning tonight.
issac – the Getty got caught with its hand in the cookie jar. They bought some items of questionable provenance.
Paul
You bring in apples and oranges and then strawberries, grapes, and all other sorts of fruit. Monte Casino, the Sphinx, etc are not remotely connected to this argument. You begin to remind me of other more nefarious types. The legal issue is also irrelevant. What is relevant is precedent and precedent is proving that in some cases artifacts of extreme importance belong where they originated. There is nothing more important to Greece than the Acropolis and the center piece is the Parthenon. Bronze statues of the era have been repatriated by the Getty as well as other works bought and stolen along the way. Legal issues are always subject to the current precedent which is an expression of the society of the moment. Works of art of far less importance are being repatriated.
The marbles were bought by one colonial power from another colonial power at a moment in time that no longer exists. If history illustrates one thing it is that we change or progress. In the case of the Parthenon Marbles those that are now in the British Museum belong in the Museum in Athens along with the others. I’m sure you could understand if like artifacts sacred to the US were residing in foreign museums as the result of some foreigner’s passing fancy coupled by an unfortunate circumstance.
issac – just like the Hopi failed to stop the sale of Katsini dolls sacred to them. Actually, there is a lot of stuff sitting in European museums and colleges that used to reside in the soil of the colonies. I am one of those who thinks that if you want good things you take care of them. Had it not been for Elgin and the Ottomans, the Marbles would be fragments today.
This is an historical moment. 800 years of the Magna Charta.
Being a layman, can anyone enlighten me; was the Magna Charta the inflection point of diminution of “government,” then a monarchy, and enhancement of human freedom, or the laying of the foundation of the burgeoning welfare state as delineated by Karl Marx in the Communist Manifesto?
Perhaps, it was conceived as the hybridization of the two.
Obviously, “Justice, Tranquility, Common Defence, Promote General Welfare (roads, utilities)” and “the blessings of liberty” being freedom and free enterprise without interference by the aforementioned limited government, came much later.
Did the American founding documents change the Magna Charta?
Did the Communist Manifesto change the Preamble, Constitution and Bill of Rights?
Does history tell us what the Founding Fathers intended?
Do you think “central planning,” “control of the means of production” and “redistribution of wealth?”
Paul
That the Parthenon was subject to decay, fire, and explosions is history. That the Turks used the marbles as targets is not likely. However, much written as history is not likely. The Ottoman Empire was very accepting of all religions, unlike Islam of today. The Turks allowed the building to serve as a church and then regarded it as a mosque.
Regardless of what happened and/or what might have happened centuries ago, Elgin did not transplant the marbles to Britain to save them from destruction. He was simply shopping. That they may have been destroyed is pure conjecture. What is factual is that the marbles are part of the central building of the Acropolis. The Acropolis belongs to Greece and Ancient Greece to the Western World. The progressive stance by private and public museums regarding these works of art as well as other works of art is that if they represent strongly a specific country’s history and identity then they should be returned to that country. In most of the world’s great museums most of the works that represent ancient civilizations were obtained by force as pillage. Regarding the civilizations that no longer exist and have little to no connection to the countries that occupy the space today, there is an argument regarding ownership.
The marbles belong to Greece. They were pilfered by Elgin from an invading force. This benchmark is recognized regarding the recent pilfering of art by Nazis as well as by museums such as the Getty and others. The dominant opinion of Britons themselves is to give them back.
There are cases where countries and peoples sold stuff to invading peoples. This is not a case of the Greeks selling their treasures. This is no different than the Nazis selling art from the Louvre. Whether the French took care of the Louvre or German soldiers would have etched their initials on the art is not the point.
Your position is part of an eroding but stubborn one.
issac – if you read the article you would have seen that after a study of their legal position the Greek government was told they had a 15% chance of winning. Now you are comparing apples and oranges, the Nazis looted art for themselves: Hitler was building a huge art museum in Vienna. Goring was building his own collection.
It is not unlikely that the Turks used the Parthenon for target practice. The French used the Sphinx for target practice at about the same time. The Allies bombed Monte Casino so the Germans (who were not using it) would not use it. The Germans then used the rubble to fight from and prolonged the battle.
The magic is here.
Paul
Not so and any connection between the reuse of materials from ancient structures for contemporary structures does not apply at all regarding the art works of the Acropolis and especially the Parthenon. The Acropolis was used as an Ottoman fort before and during the period when Elgin bought the Marbles. The reuse of materials scavenged from ancient structures is typical throughout the Middle East and in fact throughout the world. Parts of the Great Wall of China can be found in simple houses. The cladding of the Pyramids is long gone and has now probably been recycled many times. However, the marbles that Elgin took were negotiated for by him before he left for his diplomatic post and had already been given a great value by the Turks. They were, in fact, protected. The Turks sold/gave them to Elgin/Great Britain as a diplomatic gesture for British resistance to Napoleon’s moves around Europe and the Mediterranean. I am sure you will find that this history can be corrected in detail and expanded if you do a little research but the fact remains that the Architecture and Art of Ancient Greece had been given value by the various governments of the day and was not in risk of ending up as part of a wall, repurposed by some local. The only risk for these treasures was their being pillaged by colonial powers and wealthy treasure hunters. The standing of the person doing the looting and the looting country does not validate the act.
The Parthenon had been used by the Turks to store munitions and in the 17th Century a Venetian shell exploded munitions in the Parthenon destroying much of the building. It is highly probable if not completely probable that rubble was repurposed. The marbles were never at risk for that. The arguments that the British government use and have used rest on ‘possession being 9/10ths of the law, protecting them from the effects of pollution in Athens, and that the courts will not deal with the issue at this time. In other words, BS. The British public has been polled several times with 40%+ in favor of returning them to Greece and well less than 30% of them in favor of keeping them. Those for returning them have been increasing while those for keeping them have been declining in numbers. This might be due to the truth of the matter being made repeatedly known to the public as well as the general trend of returning the most important looted works back to their countries of origin.
Greece has never stopped trying to get the marbles back. Greece built a multi million dollar museum to house them. Great Britain has simply refused to even discuss the matter either diplomatically or legally. Perhaps the reason is they are wrong and have no argument. This is usually the case. This is another example of what might have been acceptable at one time, not longer being justified; a lot of that going on.
issac –
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/11604991/Greece-knows-there-is-no-legal-right-to-the-Elgin-Marbles-thats-why-it-wont-sue-the-UK.html
I love flea markets and estate sales. I suspect there are some very interesting flea markets and antique shops in London. Someone’s junk is someone else’s treasure.
Interested only in fish and chips, you need to try the spotted dick.
issac – the Greeks have a poor case for getting the Elgin Marbles back. In fact, it is so poor, they have now given up. The Greeks were using the broken parts of the Parthenon and repurposing them to use to build their homes. Had Elgin or someone like him stepped in, it would have been stripped bare of marble.
JT
Regarding your lumping the Elgin Marbles into the chaos of the Middle East, that is a loose connection to extend any merit at all. British tourists of centuries before were buying stuff from the local rulers or just taking it outright from the countries they conquered and saving them for posterity, their posterity. The connection to the Elgin Marbles displays a woeful level of ignorance on your part concerning the issue. The Elgin Marbles were purchased from an occupation force, the Ottomans by Lord Elgin. They were nothing more than the heritage of Greece bought by one colonial power from another colonial power. There is no other justification than pillage and they were never at risk of being destroyed by nut cases or thugs. In other words, no vindication.
The British did use the argument that the pollution in Athens would most likely harm the marbles if they were repatriated. Greece built a magnificent new museum to display the marbles that Elgin missed with places for the marbles that he didn’t. Pollution is no longer a factor.
The US and other countries have been sending back important works to their countries of origin for some time and the process is ongoing with discussions and individual histories being researched. The trend is to honor the country of origin when it comes to works as important as the marbles. They are not simply bric a brac purchased in a bazaar. They represent the pinnacle of Greek civilization to the Greeks and to the Western World. To the British they represent the White Man’s burden, unfortunately still being expressed. They will be repatriated but probably in a way that will erase the shame that is Britain’s for pillaging them and at a time when Great Britain can profit from the move.
JT, there is no irony here, different people, different country, however, the same pillaging.
There are many items in the British Museum that should be returned to their host countries and many that should not for the very reasons of their enduring the chaos of the thugs. The Elgin Marbles have absolutely nothing to do with the thuggery going on in the Middle East. The pinnacle of their importance lies in Athens where they should be.
On another note, I remember my first visit to the British Museum and what remains in the forefront of my memory is the display of Scott’s diary. It is open to the last page and emits a feeling of what was a recording of the last words of Oates who went outside to his death. “I am going outside and may be some time.” Reading the diary gives one an erie feeling. Here the British Museum does its job.
What a blessing that at least some art was able to be saved from ISIS’s destruction.
Sounds grand. 🙂
I must be a curmudgeon. I hate flea markets, garage sales, etc. I particularly hate the latter where strangers roam my neighborhood looking for a good deal on crap. It’s a good opportunity for burglars to scope out houses to burglarize.
Prof. Turley, you must be enjoying the history and many spectacular sites in England….loved it myself. I especially loved the Star of Africa I in the “royal scepter” , as well as the “imperial state crown”, bedecked with a majestic adornment of jewels, especially the Star of Africa II, the Black Prince’s Ruby and the Stewart Sapphire…regal to say the least, in the Tower.
Jonathan, Many thanks for your lovely descriptive blogs. I have thoroughly enjoyed going along with you on your trips to Italy last year and your Utah hikes and now this trip to London. It’s so fun to vicariously travel with you because I don’t know if I will ever get there myself. Your weekend hikes have inspired me to tell my husband that I would like to start hiking. We relocated here in SC but plan to move back to VA in 2-3 years. Having lived in Frederick, MD for 15 years previous to our move to SC I know of the beauty of the area. Especially enjoyed your blog about your hike on Sugarloaf. I really enjoy all aspects of your blog. Linda Lincoln
Jonathan: when you get back I think we could use a topic on the 1927 case of Buck v. Bell. That is when Oliver Wendell Holmes said that three generations of idiots (imbeciles?) were enough. The photos in the media the past week of Queen, Prince Charles and downhill offspring remind me of that case and the subject matter.
Thirty years ago I was in the British Museum and there were critics there of the artifacts from India, Egypt and other lands. The notion was that these things had been stolen. “Well”, I said, “Someday the terrorists will raise their ugly heads in those so called countries and destroy similar artifacts. You will be glad that the Brits preserved these things.” I think I was right.
And you don’t think Islamic extremism will ever reach into the British Museum? I am sure you have noticed a change in London’s demographics from even a decade ago.