The extensive move to remove the Confederate Flag from public and some commercial settings has raised serious concerns over both free speech and academic freedom. While the flag has been used as a racist symbol, it is also a historical symbol. According to one author, that distinction appears to have been lost by Amazon, which reportedly took done the book by Michael Dreese, a civil war author with six books on the conflict. Two of those books concern both the Union and Confederate battle flags and their roles in the Civil War. However, “This Flag Never Goes Down” (a book on the Confederate flag) was taken down by Amazon from its listed works.
The move by Amazon is reminiscent of the move by Apple to remove games, including Civil War games, featuring the flag. Apple later back pedaled on the historical products.
Dreese says that he received an email from Amazon asking him to take down the listing. He says that the book is nonfiction and does not advocate for the flag. It is a historical work.
I did find the book on the UK Amazon this morning. It is not clear if Amazon reversed the actions cited by Dreese or has not carried through on the delisting. The controversy is the subject of chatrooms on Amazon.
If the story is true (and I have no reason to doubt this author), it is a bizarre move by Amazon and captures the concern of free speech advocates and academics over the wholesale effort to remove every image of the confederacy from statue to mosaics to flags. There needs to be some recognition and tolerance for historical images and particularly academic work.
What do you think?
Obama has propelled us “forward” to the mid 1800’s where the northerners are trying to stick it to the south. Even after the horrible carnage, the people who actually FOUGHT THE CIVIL WAR were more tolerant than the PC idiots of today. How the hell can that be???
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_%28proposed_Pacific_state%29
More on the movement. Just as in the run up to the South seceding, the issues are mainly economic inequities and unrepresentative centralized government.
Thomas and Davis.
I’ll have a double.
Neo, see 12:54 and 1:10.
Plus the fact that Obama has made an “end run” around Congress
by seeking approval of his Iran Nuclear Bomb agreement at the U.N.
Congress doesn’t even exist.
Obama is omnipotent.
Jefferson State….of mind. 😉 State of Jefferson proposed.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/Modern_Jefferson_with_1941_highlight.png.
There are actually quite a few similarities between the struggle and the feelings of those who would like to become self governing in this area and the run up to the Southern War for Independence……However, there are no slaves involved.
Jefferson State.
I like it.
Is that a double entendre?
Donald Trump needs to weigh in on this issue.
innate right to secede
Exactly. The people have the right to choose to secede from an unjust or unrepresentative government. We are not chattel nor do we belong to the “State”.
In my little area of the world there is a secessionist movement that has been going on since before WWII and is getting stronger lately. The people in Jefferson State areas do not have the representation of their legislators in California or Oregon. Our interests are not being served. In fact we are being exploited for our resources, repressed and prevented from utilizing our own assets.
We don’t propose seceding from the United States or creating our own country. That would be ludicrous. We do propose becoming our own state and being able to govern ourselves. As it is now, all decisions about our lives are made by people who live in the larger cities and who have no idea of our needs nor do they care. California is too large and the interests of the populations are too dissimilar to ever have fair governance.
http://i.imgur.com/u5OgdXj.jpg
Presicely Neo, what issues are being ignored or covered up in these fluff pieces about the ‘censorship’ of pictures of the confederate flag and the silly outrage it’s produced.
Ox a and Elena, I’m still chuckling, the folks here got their red meat and they flung themselves on it like a pack of dogs.
DBQ, sidebar, The South Was Right, as Scotland was right when it voted on its innate right to secede last year, as did West Virginia, Pakistan, Bangladesh and every state in the late USSR – as half of married spouses divorce.
The South legally seceded and Lincoln invaded a foreign country with union troops in and unconstitutional “War of Aggression.” Lincoln was as unconstitutional in that endeavor as he was suspending Habeas Corpus, etc.
If the South seceded, Lincoln had a quorum for the “Reconstruction Amendments” – they are constitutional.
If the South did not secede, Lincoln did not have a quorum for “Reconstitution Amendments.” They are
unconstitutional to this day.
But then, who’s the Sovereign? Can’t be the People because the People voted down gay marriage.
But then, what is law? That depends on what the meaning of the word “state” is. Let’s ask the
Supreme Court.
“Groty, 1, July 20, 2015 at 1:21 pm
DeWane: Your understanding about the legacy of slavery is common, but it is not accurate.”
— African tribal chiefs sold tribe members to Arab slave traders who sold them to British shippers.
— 1.4% of Americans owned slaves.
— Slavery was not started by Britons in British colonies, but even before Egyptian and Greek eras.
— Slavery persisted in America for only 72 years.
Karl Denniger has good take on all the slavery stuff:
For all those criticizing Professor Turley for “spreading rumors” I encourage you to read his post again. If you are still confused, here’s another book that is available on amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Reading-Comprehension-Success-Minutes-Day/dp/1576858995/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1437414914&sr=1-2&keywords=reading+comprehension
It should help.
One thing I like about blogging is you can give your “educated” opinion, whine and cry about things if needed and then just sit back and do absolutely nothing.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. ~Edmund Burke
If this confederate flag issue is being covered by the main stream media; I wonder what real issues are being covered up.
But I did expect better from the creator of this blog. Why spread a rumor that is so easily debunked? Now all his other posts are suspect.
Did you even read the post and read the linked articles??? Seriously.
JT indicates that the book IS available, however, according to the author of the book it had been delisted at some point. Also he states that perhaps Amazon relisted the book and that he has no reason to doubt the author’s statements…..aka….call him a liar.
So, while the book and others that have the Flag of the Confederacy are currently available, it is possible that for a time it was delisted.
I just bought this book on Amazon to replace one that I had borrowed from a friend. Very interesting reading with a LOT of historical references and bibliography references for research.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51G7tGvH0AL._SX324_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
“Amazon Reportedly Takes Down…”
*****
Elena Carlena, 9:12, AKA Oxa,
“I think you need to do better research.”
*****
How much research can one do on “reportedly?”
Isn’t “research” commensurate with the court?
This may be excessive and superfluous “research” in the court of Elena and Oxa.
Thanks, Oxa! Indeed, they’re having too much fun with their celebratory outrage. I Annie gets it too.
But instead of accepting truth, let’s take another opportunity to blame Obama, as if he was the one who shot up a church in South Carolina. Of course Roof was indirectly responsible for the removal of the state-sponsored flag, by highlighting the hatred and violence behind it.
And of course no one is responsible for the banning of the flag book, because it did not happen! The flag book is still on sale at Amazon!
But I did expect better from the creator of this blog. Why spread a rumor that is so easily debunked? Now all his other posts are suspect.
Thanks for the research, Elena, but you know these professional trolls are never going to let the facts interfere with their opinions.
DeWane: Your understanding about the legacy of slavery is common, but it is not accurate. Harvard professor Louis Gates – he who participated in the infamous Obama beer summit early in Obama’s presidency – has researched and acknowledged that free blacks owned slaves in every colony, state and territory where it was legal to own slaves right up to the Civil War. It is certainly true that most slave owners were white. But I don’t think it is accurate to say that slavery was based on racism and white supremacy if free blacks in every colony, state and territory also owned black slaves.
Then there is the matter of “indentured servants”. Not technically slaves, but they were indebted to someone and were forced to work off that debt. Many of these indentured servants were poor, uneducated, white people without property. A market for indentured servants developed and free blacks could and did buy the “services” of white indentured servants.
There’s also the history of the “free people of color” – the mixed race people that seems to have their origins in New Orleans. The early French and Spanish settlers of New Orleans often took African American and Native American women as concubines. The men acknowledged and took responsibility for their mixed race offspring, frequently sending them back to Europe to be educated. When they returned, some of these mixed race people became wealthy slaveholders. After they became wealthy it became fashionable to become an art patron. The artsy/bohemian character of Bourbon Street and the French Quarter that exists today can be traced back to these mixed-race wealthy slaveholders.
I would agree that segregation WAS about white supremacy. But the Civil War – and the use of the Confederate Battle Flag during that war – was not about segregation.
Regarding segregation, I’d urge you to read an excellent piece that appeared in the Washington Post two or three days ago titled, “It’s Not Dixie’s Fault”. Segregation in the south was codified into law. But the same ugliness occurred in the north, it just wasn’t codified. Banks refused to lend money to blacks and real estate agents refused to show blacks property in white neighborhoods, so the blacks ended up segregated into black ghettos. Today, 20 out of 25 of the most segregated cities are north of the Mason Dixon line. I’ve heard this argument about “northern segregation” made before, so it is not unique to this author – an NYU professor so I assume he is not a right wing southern apologist. If you have read this far, here’s the article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/its-not-dixies-fault/2015/07/17/7bf77a2e-2bd6-11e5-bd33-395c05608059_story.html
Interesting laugh. Take a symbol down because it does not suit your fancy. Interesting to think, “ISIS”is prepared to take down our flag as well.