Police Seek Two Teenagers After Attack On 89-Year-Old Woman In England

Screen Shot 2015-11-09 at 4.57.54 PMWe have another shocking video posted by police seeking a vicious attack on an elderly person by teenagers.
The two girls attacked an 87-year-old woman who was punched in the face and had to be taken to the hospital.

Police have released CCTV footage of the “nasty” attack to try to track down the girls in the attack on Brighton Road in Coulsdon at around 3:20pm on Friday October 16.

Another passenger came to the aid of the elderly lady as the two girls fled. The release of the video appears to have worked. One girl has been arrested and another is being sought. The arrested girl however is 14 years old. That would like mean that she will face limited jail time.

This case present difficult questions with minors. My concern is that the attack on an elderly person like this shows a fundamental lack of humanity and control. A person who commits such a crime harbors a serious emotional problems in my view. If the photos above are after the attack, my concern is magnified even further by the virtually giddy image. Yet, minors in the United States are generally held until 18 in most serious crimes unless they are treated as adults given the nature of the offense. That can result in the release of someone with a dangerous and violent disposition. We recently saw such a case in the United States of a cowardly attack on a homeless woman.

It is difficult to balance the need to recognize the fact that these are minors with the gravity of the crime. What do you think?

50 thoughts on “Police Seek Two Teenagers After Attack On 89-Year-Old Woman In England”

  1. VM, You are simply wrong. I have seen good, loving, parents w/ a kid who is a sociopath do EVERYTHING humanly possible to show their child the right path. Then the kid ends up a violent felon or con man. Some people are just born bad. George Thorogood sang about them in Bad To The Bone, “BBBBBad, BBBBBad, BBBBBad, BAD TO THE BONE.” It is not PC, w/ the stuttering and all.

  2. The old lady should apologize to them for her life of white privilege, according to current college teaching.

    Just look at Mizzou, where they made the University President resign because he failed to bow before multiculturalism, and seek forgiveness for his sin of being white.

  3. >I just do not understand what has happened to character and values.

    England once was Anglo-Saxon. Enough said.

  4. Since the 1960s in the United States, the extent of female arrests has generally been less than 15 percent for homicide and aggravated assault, and less than 10 percent for the serious property crimes of burglary and robbery.

    Excluding prostitution, women are less likely to be involved in gangs and less likely to be repeat offenders.

    Statistics show that female violent crime is globally on the rise and the reasons are probably related to lack of self control. Alcohol abuse probably plays a major role in violent crime of both sexes.

    Violent crime in children is particularly worrying and probably reflects personality disorder and the risk of repeat offenders.

    Can this be effectively managed?

    Not up to now…..

  5. This should be the focus of the group in Florida known as Old Lives Matter. OLM is the abbreviation. OLM is mad as hell about the elderly abuse which goes on in America. Age hatred is worse than racism. It is worse than fascism or however ya spull it. It is worse than the case where a male beats up a female.

    Old Lives Matter is coming to a theatre near you.

    1. BarkinDog – It may be time for the Grey Panthers to ramp up again. They were very effective. Old People Vote.

  6. “a fundamental lack of humanity and control
    Yes, they are feral barbarians.

    “A person who commits such a crime harbors a serious emotional problems in my view“.
    No, they are just feral barbarians. “[T]he virtually giddy image” shows no emotional problem at all. They enjoy causing others pain. It’s what uncivilized people do. They are not troubled in the least.
    Being troubled by such behavior would require one to have once been civilized out of childhood barbbarism.
    That did not occur with these two girls.

    But hey, it’s England, where the sun is finally setting.
    Those girls will get off when they claim the old lady used a racial slur.
    Just watch.

  7. Parents, wiring, etc. What is their moral anchor? If not religion then what? My guess is they are absolutely adrift.

  8. Root cause of the violent criminal activities by teens and youth all over the world is the lack of proper upbringing. No child at birth becomes a violent criminal. Parents play very important part in giving their children plenty of love and at the same time teach them how to be disciplined and responsible in life. No police or government can take this role and those parents who neglect their prime duty are to be blamed and there should be law to deal with such parents. They produce like animals and throw the children to a society where out of control elements already exist and without any proper guidance many children fall into that trap. Lack of education plays an important part too. Today a young man who has no basic qualification wants to have the same money and luxury of the one who is qualified and working for that money. More entitlement will create more lazy unproductive elements who often turn to violence as they find it difficult to live with free government money. A society becomes healthy when all are empowered and pulling his/her weight to keep it that way.

  9. Stanley Kubrick’s Clockwork Orange delved into this pathology. Karen and Darren hit it on the head. The lack of empathy is not generational. It is part of our gene pool in a segment of people. Having investigated sociopaths my entire professional life, I can say the lack of empathy knows no race, sex, or socioeconomic restraints. You cannot teach empathy. Either you are born w/ it or you are not. However, from coaching baseball over 3 decades and also teaching, I know you can teach respect. With the breakdown of families, the best forum for teaching respect, we see more and more of this Clockwork Orange behavior. That is what Darren speaks about. All people, to varying degrees, seek recognition. Sociopaths learn they can only get negative attention, and so that is what they seek. It’s hard for normal people to understand, but for a sociopath, they get that same feeling normal people get when we do something good.

  10. So with respect to Issues of Freedom, have we now reached the point where in a conflict of Interests related to a crime, the Human Rights of the Victim should take precedence over the Human Rights of the Guilty?

    Shouldn’t common sense prevail?

  11. For the uninitiated. The Keeper or Master of the Rolls and Records of the Chancery of England, known as the “Master of the Rolls”, is the third most senior judge in England and Wales after the President of the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom and the Lord Chief Justice.

    It is nothing to do with Hot Dogs.

  12. I agree with Karen S. The lack of empathy and violence mirrors the disintegration if values across society. In the home in school and on the streets. Whilst this is an isolated incident it reflects a general trend.

    How this is managed is just as difficult with minors. I understand the argument for treating them as adults but this is not the advice of experts.

    The infamous and horrific murder of toddler James Bulger by two minors illustrates the policy of incarceration of minors and their transfer to adult prisons in the UK.
    James Bulger was tortured and murdered in 1993, by two ten-year-old boys, Robert Thompson and Jon Venables.

    Shortly after the trial, and after the judge had recommended a minimum sentence of eight years, Lord Taylor of Gosforth, the Lord Chief Justice, ordered that the two boys should serve a minimum of ten years, which would have made them eligible for release in 2003 when they were 20yrs old.

    The editors of The Sun newspaper handed a petition bearing nearly 280,000 signatures to Home Secretary Michael Howard, in a bid to increase the time spent by both boys in custody. This campaign was successful, and in July 1994 Howard announced that the boys would be kept in custody for a minimum of fifteen years,meaning that they would not be considered for release until February 2008, by which time they would be 25 years of age.

    Lord Donaldson, a Senior Judge and Master of the Rolls criticised Howard’s intervention, describing the increased tariff as “institutionalised vengeance … [by] a politician playing to the gallery”. The increased minimum term was overturned in 1997 by the House of Lords, who ruled that it was “unlawful”for the Home Secretary to decide on minimum sentences for young offenders. The High Court and European Court of Human Rights have since ruled that, though the parliament may set minimum and maximum terms for individual categories of crime, it is the responsibility of the trial judge, with the benefit of all the evidence and argument from both prosecution and defence counsel, to determine the minimum term in individual criminal cases. In other words the independency of the judiciary is to be preserved.

    The case led to public anguish, and moral panic in Britain. Tony Blair, then the Shadow Home Secretary, gave a speech in Wellingborough during which he said: “We hear of crimes so horrific they provoke anger and disbelief in equal proportions…These are the ugly manifestations of a society that is becoming unworthy of that name.” Prime Minister John Major said that “society needs to condemn a little more, and understand a little less”. The trial judge Mr. Justice Morland stated that video nasties may contribute to these horrific crimes but no evidence was found supporting this contention. Some nespapers tried to link the case to the Movie “Childs Play 3”. Inspector Ray Simpson of Merseyside Police commented: “If you are going to link this murder to a film, you might as well link it to The Railway Children”. The Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 clarified the rules on video material and children.

    After the trial, Thompson was held at the Barton Moss Secure Care Centre in Manchester. Venables was detained in Vardy House, a small eight-bedded unit at Red Bank secure unit in St. Helens on Merseyside — the same facility where, 25 years prior, Mary Bell had been held for half of her 12-year sentence. These locations were not publicly known until after the boys’ release.
    Mary Bell, aged 11, was sentenced to 12 years for the manslaughter (by strangling) of the two boys, Martin Brown and Brian Howe.

    In 1999, lawyers for Thompson and Venables appealed to the European Court of Human Rights that the boys’ trial had not been impartial, since they were too young to follow proceedings and understand an adult court. The European court dismissed their claim that the trial was inhuman and degrading treatment, but upheld their claim they were denied a fair hearing by the nature of the court proceedings. The European Court also held that Michael Howard’s intervention had led to a “highly charged atmosphere”, which resulted in an unfair judgment.

    On 15 March 1999, the court in Strasbourg ruled by 14 – 5 votes that there had been a violation of Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights regarding the fairness of the trial of Thompson and Venables, stating: “The public trial process in an adult court must be regarded in the case of an 11-year-old child as a severely intimidating procedure”.

    In September 1999, Bulger’s parents applied to the European Court of Human Rights, but failed to persuade the court that a victim of a crime has the right to be involved in determining the sentence of the perpetrator.

    The European court case led to the new Lord Chief Justice, Lord Woolf, reviewing the minimum sentence. In October 2000, he recommended the tariff be reduced from ten to eight years, adding that young offender institutions were a “corrosive atmosphere for the juveniles”.

    In June 2001, after a six-month review, the parole board ruled the boys were no longer a threat to public safety and could be released as their minimum tariff had expired in February of that year. The Home Secretary David Blunkett approved the decision.

    They were released a few weeks later on lifelong licence after serving eight years. Both men were given new identities and moved to secret locations under a “witness protection”-style action. This was supported by the fabrication of passports, national insurance numbers, qualification certificates and medical records. Blunkett added his own conditions to their licence and insisted on being sent daily updates on the men’s actions.

    An injunction was imposed on the media after the trial, preventing the publication of details about the boys. The worldwide injunction was kept in force following their release on parole, so their new identities and locations could not be published.

    James Bulger family’s lawyers had consulted psychiatric experts in order to present the parole panel with a report which suggested that Thompson is an undiagnosed psychopath, citing his lack of remorse during his trial and arrest. The report was ultimately dismissed.

    In 2010 the Ministry of Justice confirmed Venables had been returned to Jail for unspecified violation of his license and he was returned to jail on suspected pornography charges. Home Secretary Jack Straw reiterated that it was “not in the interest of justice” to reveal the reason why Venables had been returned to custody. Baroness Butler-Sloss, the judge who made the decision to grant Venables anonymity in 2001, warned that he could be killed if his new identity was revealed.

    Venables later pleaded guilty to charges of downloading and distributing child pornography, and was given a sentence of two years’ imprisonment. At the court hearing, it emerged that Venables had posed in online chat rooms as 35-year-old Dawn “Dawnie” Smith a married woman who boasted about abusing her 8 year old daughter in order to access pornography.

    In 2008, following a drunken street fight Venables was cautioned for possession of cocaine.

    It also tans pure that a member of staff was allegedly suspended for having a sexual relationship with Venables whist he served his sentence in Red Bank when he was aged 17yrs.

    He was released from custody in 2013.

    The inadequacy of the identification diagnosis and management of personality disorder and psychopathy in particular remains a problem in Society.

    The age of criminal responsibility is 10 years old

    https://www.gov.uk/age-of-criminal-responsibility

    This means that children under 10 can’t be arrested or charged with a crime. There are other punishments that can be given to children under 10 who break the law.

    Children between 10 and 17 can be arrested and taken to court if they commit a crime.

    They are treated differently from adults and are:

    ●dealt with by youth courts
    ●given different sentences
    ●sent to special secure centres for young people, not adult prisons

    Young people aged 18 are treated as an adult by the law.

    If they’re sent to prison, they’ll be sent to a place that holds 18 to 25-year-olds, not a full adult prison.

    The real problem with psychopathic behaviour is what to do when the sentence has been served and the offender has been released back into the community.

    An independent judiciary is crucial in a Democracy and it is clear that law makers cannot ignore human rights.

    However these rights should not be at the expense of the victim.

    Who also has rights….. even in Death.

  13. Dare I say it? Should I? Well, I will. Tack on charges of this being a hate crime. That’s right. A hate crime. The perpetrators are, quite obviously, black, and the victim, quite obviously, white. Who is to say that this attack wasn’t racially motivated? There’s a good chance of that being the case, but I doubt that theory will ever surface. England has lost its moorings, along with its b@ll$. Throw the book at them, although, I doubt that it will ever happen. England, along with the rest of Europe, is circling the drain.

  14. This girls should be tried and sentenced as adults. They should also be charged with elder abuse.

  15. The idea that we should consider these “girls” as children is hard to accept. It would seem they graduated to “adults” by their behavior. I agree that such an attack is tantamount to attempted murder considering the age and frailty of the victim.

  16. I’d throw the switch on them, myself, if given the chance. Punching an elderly, innocent and helpless 87 year old in the face goes far beyond mere childish antics and is tantamount to attempted murder, given the victim’s obvious frailty and vulnerability. No punishment is too severe for these societal misfits. Throw the switch and light them up.

  17. It takes a great amount of effort to become famous through merit, and unfortunately very little to gain notoriety by juvenility and depravity.

  18. I just do not understand what has happened to character and values. There was a time when their peers would have viewed these girls as repressible cowards for assaulting an elderly lady. They would have been universally shamed and reviled for such an attack.

    Now our values have degraded to the point that not only does everyone want to be famous on the internet, but a few minutes of infamy is fine, too. And girl fights, attacks on the elderly, videotaping sexual assaults on passed out people, and other acts previously viewed as disturbing are becoming more common.

    We are failing to teach this generation ethics, values, responsibility, and common decency when such attacks take place. The parents take a great deal of the responsibility for how their children have learned to function in society.

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