Dov Lior, the chief rabbi of the Israeli settlement of Kiryat Arba, appears to have rushed to show that extremists can be found on every side of a massacre. After the Paris attacks, Lior rushed forward to tell the world that the attacks were actually directed by God as payment for what Europeans “did to our people 70 years ago.” It does not seem to matter to Lior that France was one of the first to fight against Germany and was left in ruins by the Nazis. It does not even matter that this view of God would make the almighty as morally bankrupt and vicious as ISIS. In Lior’s twisted mind, murderous Islamic extremists were used by God to kill innocent people for the treatment of Jews in the 1940s. Makes perfect sense. It is truly impressive that extremists like Lior cannot resist seeing divine purpose in every act, even using ISIS as a vehicle for divine justice for Jews.
Lior made the statement during the funeral of an Israeli father and son gunned down by Palestinian terrorists. He used that moment to comment on the massacre of hundreds of innocent people by reportedly saying that “The wicked ones in blood-soaked Europe deserve it for what they did to our people 70 years ago.” Jewish extremists will have to fight with Islamic extremists in taking credit for the massacre since ISIS claims it was the will of Allah.
It is not clear how, in Lior’s alleged view of divine meaning in massacres, the killing of Jews by Palestinians fits into this “hand of God” theory. I assume that that killing of Jews is not meant as divine punishment for the killing of Jews but Lior will have to address that lingering question with a long list of other questions following his alleged comments.
Lior previously attacked global condemnation by saying that God allowed the killing civilian non-Jews in times of war. Last year, he wrote and published a letter saying that Jewish law permits destroying the entire Gaza Strip to bring peace to the south of the country: ““in the case of Gaza, it would be permitted for the defense minister to even order the destruction of all of Gaza so that the South will no longer suffer and to prevent injury to our people, who have been suffering for so long from the enemies surrounding us.”
He added a view that clearly embraced acts defined as war crimes:
“At a time of war, the nation under attack is allowed to punish the enemy population with measures it finds suitable, such as blocking supplies or electricity, as well as shelling the entire area according to the army minister’s judgment, and not to needlessly endanger soldiers but rather to take crushing deterring steps to exterminate the enemy.”
Indeed, Lior dismissed suggestions of human rights: “Talk of humanitarianism and consideration are nothing when weighed against saving our brothers in the South and across the country and the restoration of quiet to our land.”
Kiryat Arba is cited by various international groups as an illegal settlement under international law. While the Israeli government maintains that the Fourth Geneva Convention does not apply to Palestinian territories, he international community views the settlement as violating the convention. Putting aside this controversy, the fact that the people of this settlement would maintain such a person as the Chief Rabbi is truly shocking.
Source: Post
God does not play any role in such events and it is shocking that anyone in this day and age of any religion would attempt to attribute the deaths of human beings by other human beings for any reason as divine retribution for whatever their own set of preferences pet reason would be. It is medieval thinking at best. God also does not perpetrate natural disasters as punishment for random sins.
It is even more shocking to see the offensive, repugnant and sickening antisemitic garbage that some of the commenters here cannot restrain themselves from vomiting all over the rest of us in the comments section. It disturbs me that people feel free to unmask such hateful bigotry anywhwere but particularly on a website that is as reasonable and even handed as Prof. Turley’s is.
Horuss said it well. It’ not God’s fault that people kill other people and anyone who thinks that it is some divine restitution is ridiculous. There is a facebook page that I found interesting and kind of sums up my position. It’s called Jew Against Zionist Jews.
I’m against all Zionists whether they are Jews, Arabs, WASPs or Eskimos. I do not like people who use the nation state to screw other people over. I do not like the central bankers when the premeditatedly create boom and bust cycles, as they did in 2000 to 2015 and as they did in 1928 to 1945. Sadly most people do not even understand how they did it and what power they have to be able to do it and thus believe the main stream media memes that it was someone else’s fault. The “stock market” for instance in the great depression and governments insistence on increasing subprime lending in the latest cycle. Those surely happened but they were not the underlying causes. I can not go into the real causes and how they do it in a thread. Read. there are plenty of books on it.
Or how about the meme, that FDR saved America using government spending to bring us out of the Great Depression. This is totally one hundred percent false. He actually exacerbated the problems and caused it to last much longer then others had in history. These are lies to cover-up the actions of the central bankers so that the Citizens will not call for its abolition. Ron and Rand Paul know this but their positions are demonized as radical, far fetched or out of touch with realty by the main stream media.
These are the people I do not like. Not the ones who have been misled but the ones doing the misleading. The Paul Krugman and FDRs of the world who intentionally misled people for personal gain. And don’t think they don’t know it. By the way, Lincoln in one of his last speeches, blamed the Civil War on the United States embrace of slavery. He supposes that slavery was an offense that came through the agency of both Southern and Northern citizens, and one that God “now wills to remove” through “this mighty scourge of war.” “Men are not flattered by being shown that there has been a difference of purpose between the Almighty and them. To deny it, however, in this case, is to deny that there is a God governing the world.” and “The Almighty has His own purposes.”
Of course Lincoln was a self proclaimed atheist who pandered to the Christian right with speeches that incorporated biblical doctrine. He had to justify the war and the maiming and killing of 700,000 people. Some people try to claim that as he aged he excepted the Bible as God’s word. He was assassinated soon after his 2nd inaugural address. In his book, Lincoln Unmasked, economist Thomas DiLorenzo clearly shows that not only was the war fought to advance the use of taxation, through tariffs at the time, to control commerce, but that many historians have been trying to cover it up. Good old honest Abe is surely what we were taught. The abolition of slavery was going to happen anyway and the northern industrialists needed the goods produces by the south. The south could however get better prices by exporting their goods. The solution: Place high export tariffs on southern goods. Now the southern farmers were forced to sell their products to the northern industrialist at substantially reduced prices. The North out numbered the South 2:1 so the knew they would eventually win the war. Everyone really need to read his book. There are a number of others, but as an economists I think he does a good job at explaining and providing the evidence of these type aspects of the war.
So I’m not actually anti-sematic. There are some 7 billion people on the planet from what I understand, and I like about 7 or 8 of you, because the rest of you won’t agree with me. lol
Po:
“Please let us not get caught up into Karen’s web of deceit where every blame on israel should be borne by other muslim countries. it is the same distraction, post after post after post.”
Actually, Po, my comments about Israel were to confirm that Israel did not, in fact, orchestrate 9/11. It was not a big Mossad conspiracy. And yes, Jews actually did die in 9/11.
Is that my “web of deceit”?
Karen S. – So Karen who did 9/11 and don’t expect me to believe a bunch of Saudi’s with box cutters who could hardly fly Cessna’s, much less 747 jet airliners did it. Would you actually tell your child this story without telling them that many many other people however do not believe this story?
Or how about that there does not appear to be any evidence of the existence of 747 wings at the Pentagon or the crash site in PA. Massive wings don’t just disintegrate unless the entire aircraft would have.
You must admit that something is fishy with the official story?
Yea, I think the Mossad was involved and I think DIck Cheney Intentionally scheduled the training maneuvers of the Air Force that day so that they would not be able to respond so quickly.
Cheney lied about numerous other facts related to 9/11 as well. For example, Cheney:
◾Falsely linked Iraq with 9/11 (indeed, the entire torture program was aimed at establishing such a false linkage; and Cheney is the guy who pushed for torture, pressured the Justice Department lawyers to write memos saying torture was legal, and made the pitch to Congress justifying torture. The former director of the CIA said Cheney oversaw American torture policies)
◾Falsely claimed that spying on Americans, torture, the Patriot Act, the Afghanistan war, the Iraq war and the “war on terror” were all necessitated by 9/11 … when all of them started or were planned before 9/11
◾Falsely stated that an attack such as 9/11 was unforeseeable, when Al Qaeda flying planes into the World Trade Center and Pentagon was something which American military and intelligence services – and our allies – knew could happen
◾Falsely pretended that he was out of the loop during the 9/11 attacks
◾Falsely blamed others for 9/11, when Cheney was in charge of all of America’s counter-terrorism exercises, activities and responses on 9/11. See this Department of State announcement and this CNN article …
◾… And when Cheney was apparently responsible for letting the Pentagon get hit by an airplane (confirmed here and here)
◾And was instrumental in squashing a real investigation into 9/11
* Indeed, Cheney initiated Continuity of Government plans on 9/11 which essentially nullified America’s constitutional form of government.
Sandra:
If travel guides remark that Oslo is not unsafe for female tourists, you think we should ignore it?
Unfortunately, one of the drivers for crime in general in Norway is its lax laws and prisons reputed to be like day spas. Such a focus on rehabilitation might work for native Norwegians, for whom the loss of freedom is culturally perceived as punishment enough. But for criminals from overseas, it’s laughable.
I think it is a valid concern that there are reports of immigrant gangs targeting native Europeans, and refusing to assimilate.
Are you familiar with what it’s like in the Middle East? How women are viewed? Non believers? Jews? Why do you think these attitudes are miraculously left at the door? Some come here to enjoy Western freedoms, some just come for the money and still hate us, and some come to cause mayhem. Without IDs and background checks, and a legitimate way to identify them, we have absolutely no idea which group they belong to. The really nice people group, or the terrorists like the ones in France group. Or the extremists who will continue human rights violations, like female mutilation or honor killings. It is important that we winnow out criminals and terrorists, and ensure that assimilation to our laws and freedoms takes place.
This is from a website called Jew Against Zionist Jews – I didn’t write the post.
By Orang Kiyani
“If you thought that, this is the first time that U.S. and UK corporate regimes are using their so-called Islamist terrorists, mercenaries against other nations, like Syria and Iraq today, you are mistaken!
57 Years Ago: U.S. and Britain Approved Use of Islamic Extremists to Topple Syrian Government
Posted on November 16, 2015 by BIOMORPHIC
Have the U.S. and Its Allies Intentionally Balkanized Syria Into Smaller Regions?
BBC reports that – in 1957 – the British and American leaders approved the use of Islamic extremists and false flag attacks to topple the Syrian government:
Nearly 50 years before the war in Iraq, Britain and America sought a secretive “regime change” in another Arab country… by planning the invasion of Syria and the assassination of leading figures.
Newly discovered documents show how in 1957 [former Prime Minister of the United Kingdom] Harold Macmillan and President Dwight Eisenhowerapproved a CIA-MI6 plan to stage fake border incidents as an excuse for an invasion by Syria’s pro-western neighbours, and then to “eliminate” the most influential triumvirate in Damascus.”
Sandra:
Your article was on Denmark. I was referring to the capital of Norway, Oslo.
Sandra:
I have the actual pdf released by the Police Department of Oslo on rape statistics. It’s what started the whole furor.
Here’s the problem. I don’t know more than a couple of words in Norwegian. I tried opening it in Google Chrome, but the translation button didn’t pop up, because it’s an online pdf. So…then I tried Google Docs, but all it seems to do is open the pdf in what looks like a browser. Still no translation tools.
So, I may have source information which could be useful, but it’s maddeningly out of reach.
I did not claim that only Syrians were behind the rapes in Oslo. The assertion is that immigrants make up the bulk of rape, and that Muslim immigrants are the majority. The claim is that immigration is too fast, without a chance for people to throw off the old ways. They brought the streets of the Middle East to girls in Norway. Also, Syria is one of the nations where foreign fighters go to train and fight with terrorists. So undocumented immigrants from a region of high terrorist activity is obviously concerning.
The police department cautions people not to assume that ethnicity equals causality.
This is an issue for a forensic or cultural anthropologist to investigate, how changing immigration patterns affect local crime rates.
And Wikipedia referred to “sexual assault” as well as domestic violence.
Crime against women, and crime in general, is on the rise in many Western European nations. This is concerning.
Karen
Oh look. Here’s an article on Denmark crime statistics. Wouldn’t want to miss Danish rape, would we?
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/07/rape-jihad-in-denmark-more-than-half-of-all-convicted-rapists-have-immigrant-backgrounds-iraqis-iran
The stats are disappointing however. Only something over 50% and no mention of Syrians, but then the article is dated – only goes to 2012. Want to bet they’re now at 100%, too?
Sandra – the fact that 50% of the rapes are by immigrants is 50% too high. Or are you a supporter of rape by immigrants?
Zionism and the Third Reich
“There was a wide-ranging collaboration between Zionism and Hitler’s Third Reich.”
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n4p29_Weber.html
Remember Netanyahu has 2 faces..
http://buenavistamall.com/netanyahu.jpeg
Karen
Please find the word “rape” in the Wiki article.
Hint: There isn’t one.
Please quote the specific statistics on rape in the Wiki article.
Hint: There are none.
“Female” is written once – in connection with a travel guide.
This article presents a very broad, unspecific, general picture of all crime in Norway without ANY supporting documentation.
Maybe you mean Sweden has the highest rape statistics? Plenty of those articles around. Oh look. Here’s one:
https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2014/05/26/statistics-violent-crime-explosion-in-sweden-from-1975-2012-dominated-by-muslims/
Oddly enough the website is a Muslim Hate site.
Oh look. Here’s one on Norway. 90% rate this time. Muslim Hate site again.
https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2012/08/06/norway-90-of-all-violent-rapes-in-oslo-committed-
by-muslims/
Does it look like a pattern to you?
Do I need to show you the Breitbart articles?
isaac:
Your remarks brought to mind another story of my father’s, when he was in the Middle East for the government. His hose was describing a terrible massacre against his people by a rival clan. He was visibly upset, consumed with rage. My father asked when this happened, anticipating a reply of within the past few years.
It had happened several hundred years ago. Tribal warfare dies hard, which is why part of Islam was specifically designed to overlay a warring region. It is absolutely possible, and common in some areas of the West, for Westernized Muslims to worship in peace just like anyone else. They have the positives of their culture (like strong family bonds) without the negatives. Many people in Dearborn or LA are a good example. But you import too many people from The Old Country, brining their hatred with them, and it’s hard to assimilate them to Western values when the rate is too fast. As an example, I’ve remarked before about the foreign exchange student who stayed with some Persian friends of mine. As soon as she finished high school, she had to return to her homeland for an arranged marriage to a much older man. If she refused, she would have lost her family forever. She was right here in the US, and still not safe, because of the reach of human rights violations from another country.
I agree with you on increasing border security. I think we should make illegal immigration extremely hard, and legal immigration easier. We also need to determine what rate we can absorb. Too much, and we have poor citizens competing with poor recent immigrants for entry level jobs when there are not enough to go around.
But I disagree with you on transitioning law abiding illegal citizens for one main reason. Every single time we do this, we entice a wave of more illegal immigration. Perhaps that would not be an issue if the border was impenetrable. But the fact remains that our border is porous. The Dream Act was succeeded by a wave of unaccompanied minors, many of whom were sexually assaulted, kidnapped, and murdered on the way. Our law that declares that anyone born on US soil is a citizen, intended to help the former slaves, is now the enticement for heavily pregnant women to travel across deserts at the last minute, to prevent their being deported before giving birth. Too many die, and others give birth in the dirt among cactuses and scorching heat. Time and again, we have seen that these are merely enticements to promote more illegal behavior. You can’t say, “OK, guys, this is the LAST time. We’re going to reward this illegal behavior and make you legal, but we expect NO ONE else to try it!”
It is actually not required to be rich, or cross illegally, to become a legal immigrant. Poor people do it every single day. They go through the bloated immigration bureaucracy for years, only to feel like fools when someone just walks across, and then is given, in CA, free Obamacare, a free driver’s license, free benefits, etc. Why does Mexico get to skip our rules, just because they are close by? Mexican immigration laws are actually quite strict. They have a low tolerance, themselves, for illegal aliens.
One of the visa requirements I disagree with is that workers have to return to their home countries and renew, periodically. I’ve worked with several people here on visas, and it was very disruptive. They had to go home for months to renew. I think they should remove that requirement, because it is a burden.
Sandra:
Darn that racist Wikipedia!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Norway
In Norway, “The number of reported cases of domestic violence increased by 500 percent from 2005 to 2011.”
“Statistics from the late 2000s indicate that crime in Oslo is rising. Some media have reported that there are four times as many thefts and robberies in Oslo than in New York City. Since 2012, the German travel guide Dumont now describes the city as being unsafe for female tourists. The guide also named Oslo “The Crime capital of Scandinavia”.”
It’s now the crime capital of Scandinavia, and guide books declare it unsafe for female tourists.
In the interests of fairness, Norwegian officials have pushed back against the ethnicity of attackers being considered causal, and have remarked that many of the perpetrators are still unfound and never brought to justice, so confirmation of their motives and ethnicity cannot occur.
So since there are both sides to the issue, let me ask you a question. Do you agree that in many parts of the Middle East, there is terrorism, abuse against women, and a poor human rights record in general? If so, then do you see any reason to be concerned if vast numbers of people from the Middle East either throw away their ID, or forge new ones, and claim to be Syrian refugees, when we have no idea if they are extremist or criminals? Or if they are even Syrian? Were you aware that Syria is a common destination for foreign fighters to train with terrorists? What do you think the end result will be if any Western country imports large numbers of Middle Eastern immigrants from areas with poor human rights records, so rapidly that assimilation is difficult? What is the reasonable consequence?
I support legal immigration, but accurate background checks and maintaining a supportable rate is crucial.
Karen
You want to step back and read what I wrote again. I, in no way, illustrated that America is xenophobic, although many Americans are. My point is that it is human nature to be attracted to a simple description of a problem and a simple solution. This is the platform most politicians use. Trump, Carson, Cruz, Rubio and the rest reduce or dum down the issues to bits, and then they offer solutions for these seemingly simple problems. In fact the problems are extremely complicated. The Middle East and its problems originate well before Islam and those problems that come with tribal loyalties pervade and hamstring the evolution of Islam into a religion of peace. Christianity is a perfect example. 700 years ago when Islam surfaced, Christianity was nothing but waring interpretations of fairy tales. The tribes that fought each other before Islam continue to do so, just with a different paint job.
The evolution of mankind is spearheaded by the West and globalization. This comes with negative baggage as well as positive but the allowing of groups to have their own countries and not be threatened by one single argument can be seen in Europe more than anywhere else. The Czech Republic and Slovakia, The countries that once were Yugoslavia, and those countries that once were the USSR are the examples of the future. Just because there are failures does not take away from the concept. My point is that it is not as simplistic as most people wish to see it. Primarily because almost no one can entertain all the different points of view.
The US is dammed if it does and dammed if it doesn’t. Bush gave us that. He wasn’t the first, the West has been manipulating the Middle East for centuries. The problems of Iraq and Syria are most recently the product of Britain and France who created these dysfunctional countries and the US that removed the stabilizing element of Saddam. Either way the solution will not be found in one move. Just as with illegal immigration and other problems the solution is multifaceted. Building a wall and deporting millions is not the answer. Increase border security, jail illegals for a minimum of two years then deport them, transition those in the country who have equity and are law abiding into citizenship over a minimum of ten years, eliminate some of the get out of jail free cards such as children born in the US by illegal parents. If the prospect of getting caught was jail and deportation the trip might not seem so cavalier. If a woman had a child in the US and they both had to go back then perhaps that route would be reduced.
There is rarely one or two simple answers to problems such as this. Ten percent here and three percent there and eventually the situation will be more under control. It will never go completely away.
Regarding freedoms and where they come from, they come from the society that protects them. Man made god in his image, not the other way around. Sometimes he has a beard and sometimes not.
Isaac, though I don’t agree with every point you made, I second the sentiment that the problems are not that simple and it requires thoughtful, careful processes that rely on goodwill and benefit of the doubt. it is both convenient and lazy to blame the victims for their victimhood, but it is a fact that every single conflict we have around the world comes from Western action. Between colonization, artificial borders, propping up dictators above a people, arming some against others, then arming the latter against the former, the fear we experience and the lives we lose are a bucket of payback into the ocean of hurt we have dropped over much of the world, especially the middle east.
Please let us not get caught up into Karen’s web of deceit where every blame on israel should be borne by other muslim countries. it is the same distraction, post after post after post.
issacbasonkvichi – saying Saddam was a stabilizing influence is like saying Hitler was a stabilizing influence. He was a homicidal maniac who was killing his own people. He invaded two other countries. Desert Storm was designed to keep him off the battle field for 10 years.
http://buenavistamall.com/ControlledMedia.jpg
The Local and National Media Sell Out
Zionist Jews Own the Media
“The power of lies, deceptions and disinformation as Americans pay the price of collective stupidity.”
To America’s so-called journalists omission is the name of the game
The most powerful form of lie is the omission – George Orwell
They are quite accomplished in telling a blatant lie also
The Local, National and World Media talking heads are Zionist Liars. These criminals have an agenda against America
They are complicit in 9/11, War Crimes, Mass Murder, Maiming, Treason, Torture, Forgery, Fraud and Thievery – Innumerable Crimes
We are calling for the arrests of all the Zionist Liars
Zionist Criminals should be peacefully apprehended and incarcerated but not executed or mistreated
They have not reported;
1.) All the U.S. invasions are Wars of Aggression – War Crimes
2.) Obama’s birth certificates and draft card are forgeries
3.) Obama claims to have been born in Hawaii. Hawaii governor could not find Obama’s birth certificate. Hospitals have no record
4.) Israel and American traitors did 9/11
5.) Vaccines are full of toxic chemicals. Vaccines cause autism and many other diseases
6.) Obama is one of the biggest criminals in world history
7.) Zionist Jews control America
8.) According to the Federal Government, Obama’s Social Security number is a fake
9.) Obama is a homosexual. His real name is Barry Soetoro
10.) Obama was a War Criminal in 2005-2007 for voting to fund U.S. and Israeli War Crimes
11.) Obama held offices of Illinois senator, U.S. senator and U.S. president illegally as he is not a U.S. citizen
12.) Obama was born in Kenya and is a citizen of Indonesia
13.) By law Obama is not the president. He can be arrested like anyone else
14.) For swearing in an illegal president Chief Justice John Roberts is the biggest traitor in American history
15.) Your boards of elections are corrupt in placing non-citizen, criminal Obama on the ballot
16.) Obama surrendered his law license in 2008 due to Illinois bar application fraud
17.) According to our Constitution Obama never qualified as a ‘Natural Born Citizen’ for the office of Presidency
18.) Many Members of Congress have been voting to fund U.S. and Israeli War Crimes. They can be indicted as war criminals
19.) Washington DC = Nazi Berlin in Nuremberg war crimes law
20.) Obama, Bush and many in the U.S. government are mass murderers / war criminals
21.) Only the ignorant, liars or cowards, will refer to Obama as president
22.) Obama, Bush and their followers have blood on their hands before God which is the worst situation imaginable in this evil world
23.) Obama, Bush, their followers, U.S. government and media are doing the deeds of Satan, their master
24.) Judaism Rejects Zionism and the state of Israel
25.) The Federal Reserve, which is not part of the Federal Government, is a Zionist Banker Mafia
26.) Anti-Zionism is not Anti-Semitism. Zionism is not Judaism
27.) 3 towers came down on 9/11. It was an inside job, controlled demolition with nukes and nanothermite
28.) The 9/11 dust was full of asbestos which causes mesothelioma, lung cancer and other serious potentially fatal diseases
29.) For sixteen years Obama claimed he was born In Kenya
30.) By many credible reports Osama Bin Laden died of kidney failure in 2001
The crap about 100% of the rapes committed in Oslo by immigrants has been spewed across the internet for years. It started as a Danish meme. Now it has morphed into Oslo. Nazi websites are especially fond of the tale. In 2011 Pam Geller, the noted hater, was saying ALL rapes for the past five years were committed by Muslims.
http://pamelageller.com/2011/05/norway-all-rapes-in-past-5-years-committed-by-muslimsnon-western-immigrants.html/
It used to be code for blacks. I guess the popular new villain are Muslims.
Disgusting vicious propaganda.
If no one is going to post, I will.
https://youtu.be/2VUPkYyWRXY
War Crimes Tribunal Looking to ARREST Obama & Bush
They have been found guilty of War Crimes and Torture
https://youtu.be/wLCc6uwzE80
Washington, DC = Nazi Berlin
All the U.S. invasions are Wars of Aggression – War Crimes
These are the same crimes the Nazis committed
“Not only do these foreign Wars of Aggression violate the Geneva Conventions but constitute Crimes against Humanity under International Law besides being completely Illegal and Unconstitutional.”
http://buenavistamall.com/USFLAG.jpg
I don’t see thoughtful discussion, just crude Jew bashing and conspiracy theories taking over the thread. Is Patriot trying to take advantage of a high readership to disseminate extremism to other radicals?
Great to see Darren so alive and alert. Perhaps it is only crappy and amateurish American Indian art, produced by an unrepentant killer of cops, that stirs his sense of indignation.