The Democratic Debate Brought To You By Max Bialystock: The DNC Engineers A Flop In Latest Debate Scheduling

220px-American_football_refereesDownton_Abbey_season_1For months, critics and candidates have been publicly denouncing what they view as open favoritism of the Democratic National Committee (and particularly DNC Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz) toward Hillary Clinton. Even DNC members have objected to the role of the DNC and the view that it is trying to guarantee that Clinton is the nominee. One of the most commonly cited (and commonly accepted) examples are the small number of debates scheduled by the DNC at hours that guarantee the least exposure for Clinton. That criticism is likely to become deafening this Sunday when the key debate before the Iowa caucus will be scheduled not only on a Sunday night but in direct conflict with the NFL playoffs and the new episode of Downton Abbey. Our house is a typical example of the obvious dilemma. My wife is a Downton Abbey fan and, as you know, I am a football fan. The result? The debate might as well have been held by the DNC on Mars. It is a schedule that only Max Bialystock could truly love. [Update: despite virtual universal derision over the scheduling of the debates,  Wasserman Schultz went public today and claimed that the schedule was actually designed to “maximize” exposure.  This type of statement only magnifies the view that party leaders and some politicians have such a low opinion of voters that it borders on open contempt.  How would scheduling a debate on a Sunday night in conflict with two of the biggest television draws maximize viewership — putting aside the refusal to allow more debates as demanded by two of the three candidates and many voters? Indeed, if she was implausibly trying for the largest audience, she is grossly negligent as the low ratings have proven.]

Despite this bizarre and overt effort to minimize audiences, any effort to shield Clinton is failing if recent polls are an indicator. Clinton is falling in the polls much as she did in 2008 and the bias of the DNC is resonating with the base.

What is curious to me is that I thought Clinton was doing quite well in debates and recent interviews. The clumsiness that we saw earlier seems to have been largely removed. In other words, she really does not need the help from the DNC. Indeed, all of this weird minimalist scheduling is simply reaffirming the view of her critics that she is an establishment insider and that there is no real choice being allowed voters.

The scheduling on Sunday is also playing into GOP critics like Sen. Ted Cruz who observed that “They keep scheduling the Democratic debates at like 2 a.m. on Alaska PBS. It’s almost like they don’t want anybody to see their candidates for president.”

I find all of this fascinating to watch (or not watch in the case of the Democratic debates) because it seems so counterproductive and damaging to both the Clinton campaign and the DNC. The conventional wisdom has long been that parties want as many people to watch debates as possible. Conversely, this seems engineered to be a flop like the DNC version of “The Producers”

In the end, when the low ratings roll in, the DNC could always quote Downton Abbey with a sense of satisfaction: “We were a show that flopped”

128 thoughts on “The Democratic Debate Brought To You By Max Bialystock: The DNC Engineers A Flop In Latest Debate Scheduling

  1. Wassermann – Schultz should resign. She should have been kicked out long ago. Her support for the TPP and her obvious corporatist leanings make her a strange choice for the Chair of the DNC unless you factor in the fact that she was hand picked by President Obama.

    Even if you are an HRC fan, which I am not, you must realize that WS taints your candidate and makes her look scared of any true competition.

    Go Bernie!

  2. A football fan and a Downton Abbey fan. Says a lot. But why are humans so dumb that they have to watch a debate in order to make up their minds as to who to vote for?
    Germany voted Hitler into office. America can choose the Donald. Or the Cruz. We call him the Canuk around here.

  3. Downton Abbey should be a topic on here. Why would Americans want to look at those Brit dorks–especially the itchbays with the dork hats on?

  4. This speaks volumes about what the DNC really thinks of its favorite. Their actions clearly show they have no confidence in her ability to debate with her competitors.

  5. ” Their actions clearly show they have no confidence in her ability to debate with her competitors.”

    On the other hand, maybe she debates just fine – maybe they just don’t want any voters to see her.

    Decisions are so hard, what to choose, what to choose? Rothlesberger or Clinton … Clinton or Rothlesberger.

  6. No hidden agenda here. Hillary is simply searching her closet for the perfect pantsuit to make her appear, well, uh, more human. Okay, how about more human-like? Less robot-ish. That’s all. Not an easy feat, by any measure, so, naturally, it takes some time. Can’t rush perfection. Once she finds the perfect pantsuit–you know, that one that screams, I’M JUST LIKE YOU, FOLKS–along with a large vat of spackle to fill in the cracks on her face, why, she’ll almost appear like a gal we can trust.

  7. In this media driven circus every wart and mole will be exploited. A poll in Podunk Miss. will prove to readers of some rag that this or that candidate is doomed or trampling all the others. 90% of it all is filler for the voters to read.

    Regarding the Republican party candidates, there isn’t one who offers any benefit to Americans in general. Everything they say pertaining to reality has been said before by both sides. Punters like Rubio can only come up with statements demeaning Obama such as, “President Obama is overwhelmed.” Any idiot off the street can say that and Rubio is nothing more than an idiot off the street. Trump has an uncanny ability of reading his consumer and he proves that by playing to mindless frustration, with no conceivable practical programs. There would never be a wall and if it was built or any portion of it, Mexico would never pay for it. There would never be a halt to Islamic immigration; Americans are bigger than that. Cruz is a bible thumper and that won’t fly. So they all ooze out the anti Obama blather after they get through pointing fingers at each other. Jeb Bush might just be able to win if he stays out of the stupidity and comes up with some proactive moments. Americans are getting more tired day by day of this travesty and hopefully will start to perk up their ears at some substance as it fights its way through the moaning.

    Regarding Clinton and the other choice, it comes down to direction. The country has been on a direction progressing into where it should have been progressing decades ago. It is doing it two steps forward and one step, sometimes two and three steps back due to the shame and anger of the Republicans pulling it back or as they have admitted, standing in the way of ANYTHING Obama proposes, or for that matter anything Democratic.

    Clinton is no angel but she does represent a continuation forward into the future against the results of a circus like contest if a Republican gets in. Bernie Sanders would be the best choice but he is two old for two terms and it will take two more terms to undo the damage done to America by the Republican extremists. We already had an aging President who fell asleep in meetings, thought he fought in WW2 but had great hair. We got the deepest and worst recession since the Great Depression as a result and then it happened again but only worse.

    In spite of the candidates of both sides there are only two sides so it comes down to direction in the end. Do you want to go backwards or forwards. There will always be a step or two backwards. Perhaps if Clinton gets in the Republican party will burn out this endless smear campaign and come up with a viable array of responses to the problems of the day, like vet more carefully immigrants instead of slamming the door, tighten up security on the borders and send some illegals back and allow other to stay, and hopefully realized that our military is far too large and unwieldy as well as expensive to maintain, along with many realizations.

  8. Issac, This nation IS going forward, Headfirst even. Down the toilet. If you think that is good…what can anyone say?

    We are approaching a 20 TRILLION $$ debt. That’s forward? Bankruptcy isn’t forward.

    Our borders are wide open. That’s forward? A terrorist with a missing Russian suitcase nuke coming across is not forward. Nearly a 100 of the portable Russian nukes are missing by the way. Look it up.

    Fed burroacracies are regulating our energy sector to death. Higher energy costs for an already strapped family is not forward.

    Our electronic infrastructure is wide open to an electromagnetic pulse bomb. That’s not forward.

    0 is doing the Cloward and Piven ‘Strategy’ as an attack front against the US economy. Welfare roles are swelling. The new slavery called ‘workfare’ will not be long in coming once enough of the US population is dependent of govt for their livelihood. That’s not forward.

    Crony capitalism is at an all time high, wasting billions of tax dollars. Not very forward. Free markets are under attack, again by regulation & cronyism. Hardy forward at all.

    Then again, on Bizzaro World, all the above is considered ‘forward’. ‘Progressive’ destruction of the USA so we can be ‘rebooted’ with an all powerful & controlling centrally panned govt is only ‘forward’ to ‘progressives’ like Hill. She calls herself a ‘modern progressive’.

    With all due respect,

    SamFox

  9. There are no “debates” presented by either the DNC or RNC. It is all a sham and these events are better labeled for what they are– vehicles of propaganda. They may schedule their propaganda for whenever they wish. It behoove US citizens to ignore them. An alternative is to research and focus on third party candidates who might actually represent us in what is left of our civilian govt. (not very much).

    To those who say this is impossible I would say what do you have to lose? Spain just elected many people to their parliament who are far to the left of most US candidates. If there people can do this, so can Americans.

    At any rate, actual debates should be held by independent bodies. Otherwise the US public should turn off the TV so we are not so readily propagandized by USGinc./military R US.

  10. The RepubliCon Debate was on Fox Business channel. We do not get that on our tv here. One had to watch it on the internet site. That as kind of dumb of RepubliCons too. Now they have over exposed them. In the old days when they just put up signs and said you have a choice not an echo you took them at their word and did not vote. This year its like eating bad food night after night. You want to watch old artFay ladies with ugly hats on Downton Abbey or some dumb football game rather than Ted Cruz or Bushie Boy. And where was the bitch from Buchenwald this last time? Carly something or other.

  11. Jill: +1

    They should put a runway on the stage, so that the candidates can model their evening and leisure attire. That’s about how much substance is coming from any of them and their parties.

    And Jill Stein would make as good a president as any of them.

  12. What stevegroen said in two posts.

    Nobody is competent to lead a country of 300 million people with competing interests, let alone assume the role of the leader of the world. Break the US up into regions of about 5 million each and we might be able to find competent regional leaders.

  13. Behold proponent of black African ethnic cleansing Hillary Clinton: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-01-14/emails-prove-hillary-knew-libyan-rebels-were-conducting-ethnic-cleansing-supported-t

    When Hillary’s hench woman (assistant) showed Hillary video of Ghaddafi being raped and murdered, Hillary chuckled and replied (unknown candid camera caught the whole exchange for eternity): “We came, we saw, he died.” Watch the video.

    Tell me one thing in Trump’s life he did as evil and Satanic (crimes against humanity) as Hillary does on a regular routine day. I bet she has ordered people murdered while buttering her morning toast.

    Hillary had her CIA hench men pay and arm the above described ethnic cleansing terrorists to rape and murder Ghaddafi for his mortal sin of proposing a pan-African currency which would minimize Western financial hegemony, and for threatening to take actions that would devalue French currency.

    Investigative reporter Michael Piper makes an exceptionally good case that the CIA successfully recruited Hillary, Bill, and John Kerry to “the agency” while they attended university. Nothing on planet earth guarantees American financial success like working as an undercover agent for the agency. And nothing gets American intelligence as close to the American anti-war college underground as recruiting their all-time star organizers of the protest movement.

    It all makes perfect sense when you examine Bill’s CIA drug running days as Arkansas Governor. See the list of Bill’s associates who have died mysterious deaths, such as suicide by shotgun blast to the back of the head.

    “If you dine with the devil, bring a long fork.”

  14. samfox

    The eight years of the Obama administration will be seen as a necessary repair job fixing the catastrophe that was the Bush administration, which would not have been so bad if it weren’t for the rabid Republicans that opposed tempering the mess he made. It will also be seen as an example of the limitations of the two party system, a system that only remains in the US as most other advanced democracies have evolved to a more representative and less catastrophe resulting system, that of an average of four parties.

    The problems facing the US today were not created entirely by the Republican party. However, the acceleration, ‘down the toilet’, as you so aptly put it, is due to the Republican party and that bad joke of eight years under the three stooges followed by the Republican party opposing any and everything, or holding America hostage to get their way.

    Go back to the Reagan administration and review how the deficit doubled and tripled under Reagan and Bush and then start presenting your arguments. Recent history shows that the American economy has done much better consistently under Democrat Presidents. Both Reagan and Bush followed their sideshows with huge recessions.

    The Republican party has been contaminated by the Tea Party idiots which has rendered Republican leadership more than worrisome. In a more advanced democracy the Tea Party would be a separate political party leaving the bulk of America’s conservatives free to approach rational thought. The extreme left would also be a separate political party leaving the bulk of America’s liberals free to approach the rational thought in the middle. Separating and identifying the extreme left and right would allow the center to compromise with the nut cases out of the mix.

    America’s political system is to blame for the failures spanning the past several administrations. However, nothing good has come out of the Republican party. The beginnings of something good along with a yeoman’s job of addressing the fallout of two failed wars and tanking the economy, has come out of the Democratic party. There was some good to be found in the eight years of the three stooges and some bad to be found in Obama’s administration. However, look at the basic problems; they are primarily due to Republicans.

    Your rant is nothing more than a regurgitation of the scare tactics used by Republican losers, who seem to have an unfortunately sizable following these days. The tactics are age old. Hitler used them. They seem to still work for some. Less than nothings like what we see contending for the GOP nomination don’t need to present any substance, all they have to do is to make vacuous statements like, “The President is overwhelmed.” That is all they have and yet somehow it is working. Too many Americans need an enemy, someone to blame for their shortcomings.

  15. I heard the democrats tried to book Wayne’s Worlds basement for the final debate but the basement held to many people for the democrats liking. No matter, watching the democrats debates is as exciting as eating a Valveeta cheese sandwich.

  16. Mike Smerconish joins Kline and Specter

    Isn’t Kline and Specter the law firm denounced by Judge Stearns? U.S. District Judge Richard G. Stearns of the District of Massachusetts recently granted final approval to a pair of settlements totaling $150 million in a class action RICO suit against TAP Pharmaceutical Products Inc. over alleged illegal sales tactics that drove up the price of the prostate cancer drug Lupron.

    But Kline & Specter “refused to join in the cooperative effort,” Stearns wrote, and “instead embarked on a pre-emptive strategy to seize control of the litigation by using the state court proceedings to gain leverage over counsel cooperating with the MDL action.”
    Stearns faulted Kline & Specter for launching a pair of Internet Web sites that, Stearns said, were “intended to mislead potential members of the [federal multi-district litigation] MDL class.”
    He also faulted Kline & Specter for sending a “Dear Client” letter to “every person who had registered” on the firm’s Web sites. The letter, according to Stearns, contained “a number of deliberate misrepresentations and falsehoods.”

    After reviewing the Web sites, Stearns issued an order in which he found that the sites were intended to mislead potential members of the MDL class.
    Stearns said he concluded “the typical registrant on a Kline & Specter Web site would not know that he or she was opting out as a participant in the MDL class by ¿registering’ with Kline & Specter. Moreover, neither of the Web sites explained that a registrant who opted for inclusion ¿in litigation in the state courts’ might (depending on his or her state of residence) be left with no means of recovery.”
    The ruling said that while Kline & Specter was “perfectly free to criticize the proposed settlement agreement … they are not privileged to engage in deceptive conduct manipulating the very consumers they claim to protect.”

    “…nominating commission has reached an agreement on several candidates to replace the state’s U.S. Attorneys but a panel co-chair refused to divulge any names, The Philadelphia Inquirer reported today.
    Eastern District Interim U.S. Attorney Michael Levy
    Tom Kline (Kline & Specter)
    Committee chair Tom Kline told the newspaper that his committee settled on a number of “qualified candidates” to succeed Eastern District Interim U.S. Attorney Michael Levy, Middle District U.S. Attorney Martin C. Carlson and Western District U.S. Attorney Mary Beth Buchanan.
    Kline, a lawyer with Philadelphia personal injury law firm Kline & Specter, co-chairs the 16-member panel with colleague Shanin Specter, the son of Sen. Arlen Specter (D-Pa.). Last week, the committee interviewed more than 40 candidates for the different posts. Read our previous post here.
    Sen. Bob Casey (D-Pa.) and Arlen Specter will submit U.S. Attorney recommendations to the White House once they receive the panel’s finali
    Monday, July 13th, 2009
    Interviews for candidates hoping to snag one of the three U.S. Attorney positions in Pennsylvania will begin this Friday, reports the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.
    Supreme Injustice on the Waterfront? LWV and Philly Mag Raise Concerns
    “a provision that legal challenges get fast-tracked past the lower courts and go right to the Supremes. At press-time, in the 11 separate matters involving SugarHouse that have been decided by the court, the casino has gotten favorable rulings 11 times.”

    Has Pennsylvania’s highest court been compromised by greed and political corruption? A year ago, when I first got involved with working to keep casinos out of Philadelphia neighborhoods, I might have been shocked by the very idea. Now the question seems appropriate.

    On Monday, the League of Women Voters (“LWV”) filed a federal law suit that makes a stunning allegation: it alleges that former Pennsylvania Supreme Court Chief Justice Ralph Cappy secretly met with legislative leaders and struck a deal to uphold the constitutionality of Pennsylvania’s slots casino bill in return for a pay hike in the form of . . . wait for it . . . the now infamous pay raise of 2006. Furthermore, the complaint asserts that these types of alleged shenanigans date back a decade to the mid-nineties.

    Meanwhile, keep in mind that both the gaming act and the pay raise were passed by the General Assembly through a process called “gut-and-replace” whereby a law is stripped of its original language and intent, and rushed to a vote without the mandated three days of public review in both the House and the Senate. This is a clear violation of Article 3 of the Constitution and last year a lower court struck down a perfectly nice 2002 hate-crimes bill, finding the “gut-and-replace” tactic to be unconstitutional.

    Though some observers have questioned whether the LWV’s case will succeed, few familiar with the history of the court’s decisions regarding casinos are shocked or surprised by the accusations that the Court might have lost its independence.

    Is it true? If not, why would a respected nonpartisan group such as the League of Women Voters put its reputation on the line? And their case isn’t the only place where you can hear these questions raised about justices and injustice.

    Take this month’s Philadelphia Magazine story about the feud between former friends and political allies Senator Vince Fumo and SugarHouse investor Richard Sprague as exhibit B. In his article, Robert Huber explains that:

    These days, Dick Sprague helps watch over the State Supreme Court from his perch on its disciplinary committee, which is chaired by Bill Lamb, an ex-justice who is one of Sprague’s closest friends. So close that Fumo sometimes referred to them in phone conversation as the “tennis player” – Sprague–and his partner–Lamb.

    Well guess what? You can cue up the spooky music because Bill Lamb is also an investor in SugarHouse. Huber goes on to slyly note that the gambling bill written by Fumo in 2004 has “a provision that legal challenges get fast-tracked past the lower courts and go right to the Supremes. At press-time, in the 11 separate matters involving SugarHouse that have been decided by the court, the casino has gotten favorable rulings 11 times.”

  17. VietVet

    I’m with you on that one. I’m going to mail her, FedEx, a nice, little, frilly number from Macy’s. Something in a subtle print–something that brings out her eyes.:)

  18. VietVet

    Yeah. I suppose that you are correct. She needs to get ready for that attractive and flattering prison garb.

    Hey, no problem with those horizontal stripes making her look chunky. The gals in prison like ’em big.:)

  19. BFM, The polling and focus groups done by the DNC and Hillary show conclusively, the more people see her, the less they like her. That is a BIG problem and that’s the reason for this horse manure move on the debates.

  20. Nick

    Lol! I think that they are going to go the XXXX route–XXX may not be sufficient.

    I also heard that her cankle bracelet will be a musical one, which comes with show tunes, but that could just be a rumor.:-)

  21. All
    There’s this couture haute designer in the west I think his name is
    Shareef Arpieu’ who has plenty of striped dresses as well as ankle jewelry. I’m quite sure he’ll donate.

  22. Hildegard, so you’re saying God is a big baby? I think we need to meet the parents here. I suspect their opinions and philosophy are precisely the same as those presented by this child – even the presence and delivery. The “child” is exhibiting learned behavior. Duh.

    “We only see what we want to see; we only hear what we want to hear. Our belief system is just like a mirror

    that only shows us what we believe.”

    Don Miguel Ruiz

    “There’s a sucker born every minute.” P.T. Barnum

  23. David B. Benson
    “Skimmed through all these comments although I am not sure why I bothered.”

    Nowhere Man – John Lennon

    He’s a real Nowhere Man
    Sitting in his Nowhere Land
    Making all his nowhere plans for nobody

    Doesn’t have a point of view
    Knows not where he’s going to
    Isn’t he a bit like you and me?

    Nowhere Man, please listen
    You don’t know what you’re missing
    Nowhere Man, the world is at your command

    He’s as blind as he can be
    Just sees what he wants to see
    Nowhere Man, can you see me at all?

    Nowhere Man, don’t worry
    Take your time, don’t hurry
    Leave it all ’til somebody else lends you a hand

    He’s a real Nowhere Man
    Sitting in his Nowhere Land
    Making all his nowhere plans for nobody

  24. Manwhile, five Americans released from Iran without the need to carpet bomb them.

    Damn, Obama. It’s all his fault.

  25. Need a break from the close examination of the Democratic debate schedule and cankles? There is an exciting episode of Gillian’s Island on in thirty minutes. I hope it doesn’t prove to be too much of an intellectual stretch for the ‘cankle’ crowd.

  26. I think isaac and Patriot are the same person. There is no way this blog could be blessed with two equally insane people from opposite ends of the political spectrum.:)

  27. Obama gave up some bad people in prison, and gave preemptive pardons to traitors awaiting trial. He makes Jimmy Carter look competent and makes Nixon look lawful. But someone here obviously got an erection from this HORRIBLE deal.

  28. Right. 10 military men released a couple of days ago. Five more released today. All without a shot being fired or a bandaid needing to be issued.

    Horrible indeed. Nick prefers they remain incarcerated until we can turn Iran into glass. Don’t you wish he were Secretary of State?

  29. Oh yeah. Forgot about the dismantling of centrifuges and stuff. What a horrible deal. Do you think maybe Nick really General Jack D. Ripper?

  30. By the way John, I read The Four Agreements 14 times consecutively in order to cope with a huge relationship betrayal. So I get “Don’t take anything personally”….not that it’s highly relevant to your comment. Just wanted you to know that we have something in common. Isn’t that nice?

  31. The Democrats are clearly in the tank for Hilllary. Now the question will be, will she be arrested before the elections?

  32. (music- to the tune of Henry The 8th I am I am– Herman and the Kermits)

    I’m Hillary The Eighth I am!
    Hillary The Eighth I am I am!
    I got married to the widower next door.
    He’s been married seven times before.
    And everyone was a Hillary!
    It wouldn’t be a Willy or a Fred.
    For their ain’t no name like Hillary!
    Hillary The 8th I am!

    — end

    Hillary is an 8th Day Dog Adventist by the way. Bernie is a 9th Day Dog Adventist. They only differ as to which day it was that God Sent Dog To Earth To Give Guidance To Humans. And both believe that Dog is God spulled backwards.

    Some Democrats are odd and some are even. Some were even for Stevenson. Adlai. He was born on the 8th Day. But he was not a dog. He had a Call To Greatness. He could be a writen in if you don’t like Hillary or Bernie.

    There is a dog out here reciting a poem. I will relate it.

    “Bernie and Biden sittin in a tree.
    K I S S I N G. First came love. Then came marriage…
    Then came Hillary with a baby carriage.”

    Here is some other news gleaned off the internet. Hillary reported to her doctor, who put his records up on the Cloud where they were stolen, that Bill has a disease called Stiffilys. It has some thing to do with a person named Monika. And he only gets “Up”, whatever that means, on “Hanica”m what ever that means. The doctor’s middle name was Quack and he is not a duck. Although he hails from Duck Creek, NC. The doctor says in his notes that he is befuddled and up Duck Creek without a paddle. Whatever that means.

  33. Debbie Wasserman is an offspring of Sgt. Schultz from the old tv series about prisoners of war in Germany in WWII. The was a well kept secret in Florida until the guy went down to clean out the well and pumped it out. So when asked about why the debate was not on Prime Time she said: “I know Nuth Thing!” She had a German accent. Then she admitted that the debate could be had with free shipping from Amazon Prime. And, you did not have to find it on the computer from Fox Business channel.

    Meanwhile, The Producers II is coming out this Spring. Yeah the producer of The Producers was gay. This is a story about how The Trump took over center stage. There is a song in the movie to the tune of Mister Ed and it is along the lines of: “A dork is a dork, a dork of course, Unless, until the silly dork is named Mister T!”

    Meanwhile, a spokesman for a mosque in Florida said that no Muslim can vote for any woman for any office, Hillary included. He is quoted as saying that “two L s don’t make it right” and that had to do with the spelling of her first name.
    If she runs against Rubio she wont win FL with or without the Muslim vote. If she runs against The Donald, she won’t win NY , with or with the Catholic vote. And if she runs against Cruz she won’t win Texas with or without the Ex s vote. All my X es live in Texas. Meaning my ex wives. The worst thing would be if Kasich gets the nomination because Hillary can not win without Ohio. This summer I hear them coming. They’re probably on their way. Gonna get down to it!
    Nuff said. Or barked.

  34. BarkinDog – Planned Parenthood came out for Hillary this week. What makes you think Hillary would get the Catholic vote? I am not sure she is going to get the nomination.

  35. Hillary is on TV this morning on a show called Face The Nation. She is facing forward not left or right. Yak, yak, bo back. Her hair looks shaggy. Tonight she is on center stage with Bernie. He is on Face The nation and is facing to the left. It is a staged thing. The interviewer is off to the left. They set him up. This weenie guy (name unknown) is doing the interview. Bernie is from Brooklyn and sounds like it. Turdy turd and a turd.

  36. To the critics of the prisoner swap

    You’re correct. This was a bad move. Obama is overwhelmed. He should have arranged to sell cocaine through the CIA to get money to buy missiles and then traded the missiles to Iran for the prisoners. Yup.

    Ronnie, I was a tail gunner in a B-52 in WW2, Reagan.

  37. Did we ever swap prisoners in any war? Civil War? Would the South swap black soldiers back? I think not. Korean War? Swaps across the DMZ? What about the MIA thing which gets bandied about? Do we still have Americans back in Nam? That is “Vietnam” to those of you who don’t know.

  38. Tune in tonight for a debate between Hillary and Bernie and O’Malley. This is Sunday Night and it is not on Fox Business on some computer link from Cloud 9. And there is nothing to compete with it. Only some old farts game on tv and some Brit show with old ladies wearing Queeny hats. Many will watch because they want to hear Bernie tear into Trump and Hillary tear into Cruz control. O’Malley will just talk about himself. Those in Baltimore are fed up with him. I just saw some ad for this debate on tv and knew nothing about it. You would think that this blog would have mentioned it. After it is over I am watching a re-run of The Producers.

  39. The Hillary is going to be on Saturday Night Live! again. They are going to sing this song while she ascends a stage. The lyrics will be changed to protect the innocent.

    Springtime for Hitler and Germany
    Deutschland is happy and gay
    We’re marching to a faster pace
    Look out, here comes the master race

    Springtime for Hitler and Germany
    Winter for Poland and France
    Springtime for Hitler and Germany
    Come on, Germans, go into your dance

    I was born in Düsseldorf
    And that is why they call me Rolf
    Don’t be stupid, be a smarty
    Come and join the Nazi party

    Springtime for Hitler and Germany
    Goose step’s the new step today
    Bombs falling from the skies again
    Deutschland is on the rise again

    Springtime for Hitler and Germany
    U-boats are sailing once more

    Springtime for Hitler and Germany
    Means that soon we’ll be going
    We’ve got to be going
    You know we’ll be going to war

  40. Paul

    The Catholics are all for planned parenthood. They have a certain patina of rationality. The bible thumpers are the ones who are stone cold against any tampering with whatever the f*^k they believe. Cruz has them, but that’s all he has. Hillary will win if she doesn’t implode or get too cocky. Trump is just a version of the ‘Fish moan’. Rubio is a punter not worth taking a chance on. Bernie is too old. the rest are wandering around looking for a way out. Hillary is the only one with experience enough and at least two more than any Republican option, regardless of the morality baggage. One thing you have to understand, or maybe not, there are no morals in politics or government. All we can hope for is direction, forward, not backward.

  41. Bill said that all he wanted was an erection, not forward, not backward. All he got was four more years. Now he wants another four more. Where is Monica when he needs her.

  42. One question we could decide tonight is whether Bernie is too old. Some of the questions will be directed, maybe not directly, on that issue. I think that the narrators should ask him some trick questions. Like what was the name of his first grade teacher? Who won the 1964 World Series. What does Vermont mean in French? Where does the Green Mountain state stand on issues like migration? Where is East Saint Louis? How many bubbles in a bar of soap? What train company is named after the Vermont capital? Who was Hans Richter? What does Wien mean?

  43. “What does Wien mean?”

    Why that’s kind of like whine, as in whiner or follower of Trump. See above ‘Fish Moan’ for a better idea.

  44. So, Anthony Wiener is a Fish Moaner? Does it mean Vienna?
    Maybe Anthony Wiener hails from Vienna.
    Where is Bernie from? Oh, I know Brooklyn but what are his roots? Where did they come from when they hit Ellis Island in NYC and applied for citizenship?

    What is Hillary’s ethnic heritage? Irish? I would have to resort to Blazing Saddles and say Not The Irish!

    What is Trump’s ethnic background? He looks Irish. Or Kraut.

    O’Malley has to be Irish. Maybe Scots-Irish.

  45. I looked on Wikipedia her ethnic background:

    Hillary[nb 2] Diane Rodham was born on October 26, 1947, at Edgewater Hospital in Chicago, Illinois.[2][3] She was raised in a United Methodist family, first in Chicago and then, from the age of three, in suburban Park Ridge, Illinois.[4] Her father, Hugh Ellsworth Rodham (1911–1993), was of Welsh and English descent;[5] he managed a successful small business in the textile industry.[6] Her mother, Dorothy Emma Howell (1919–2011), was a homemaker of English, Scottish, French, and Welsh descent.[5][7][8] Hillary has two younger brothers, Hugh and Tony.[9]

    The entire wikipedia article is quite impressive. I recommend reading it. Google: Hillary Clinton- wikipedia.

  46. On Bernie and his background and early life, from wikipedia:

    Sanders was born in Brooklyn, to Dorothy (née Glassberg) and Eli Sanders.[21][22] His father was a Jewish immigrant from Poland whose family was killed in the Holocaust,[7][21][23] while his mother was born in New York City, to Jewish immigrant parents.[24][25] Sanders has said that he became interested in politics at an early age: “A guy named Adolf Hitler won an election in 1932. He won an election, and 50 million people died as a result of that election in World War II, including 6 million Jews. So what I learned as a little kid is that politics is, in fact, very important.”[26][27][28]

    Sanders attended elementary school at P.S. 197, where he won a state championship on the basketball team. He attended Hebrew school in the afternoons, and celebrated his bar mitzvah in 1954. Sanders attended James Madison High School, where he was captain of the track team.[29] While at Madison, Sanders lost his first election, finishing last out of three candidates for the student body presidency. Sanders’ mother died in June 1959 at the age of 46, shortly after Sanders graduated from high school.[23]

    Sanders studied at Brooklyn College for a year in 1959–60[30] before transferring to the University of Chicago. While at the University of Chicago, Sanders joined the Young People’s Socialist League,[31] the youth affiliate of the Socialist Party of America, and was active in the Civil Rights Movement as a student organizer for the Congress of Racial Equality and the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee.[7][8] In January 1962, Sanders led a rally at the University of Chicago administration building to protest university president George Wells Beadle’s segregated campus housing policy. “We feel it is an intolerable situation when Negro and white students of the university cannot live together in university-owned apartments,” Sanders said at the protest. Sanders and 32 other students then entered the building and camped outside the president’s office, performing the first civil rights sit-in in Chicago history.[32][33] After weeks of sit-ins, Beadle and the university formed a commission to investigate discrimination.[34] Sanders also participated in the 1963 March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom.[35] That summer, he was found guilty of resisting arrest during a demonstration against segregation in Chicago’s public schools and was fined $25.[36]

    In addition to his civil rights activism during the 1960s and 1970s, Sanders was active in several peace and antiwar movements. He was a member of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee and the Student Peace Union while attending the University of Chicago. Sanders applied for conscientious objector status during the Vietnam War; his application was eventually turned down, at which point he was too old to be drafted. Although he opposed the war, Sanders never placed any blame on those who fought and has been a strong supporter of veterans’ benefits.[37][38]

  47. Martin O’Malley also has an impressive life history. Here is a bit from wikipedia. All three are quite impressive. Please look up all three on wikipedia.

    Martin O’Malley was born on January 18, 1963, in Washington, D.C.,[3] the child of Barbara (née Suelzer) and Thomas Martin O’Malley.[4] Martin’s father served as a bombardier in the U.S. Army Air Force in the Pacific theater during the Second World War, and said he witnessed the mushroom cloud rise over Hiroshima while on a routine mission.[4] Thomas later became a Montgomery County-based criminal defense lawyer, and an assistant United States Attorney for the District of Columbia. O’Malley’s father was of Irish descent and his mother has Irish, German, Dutch, and Scottish ancestry.[5][6][7][8] He is a descendant of a War of 1812 veteran, and is an active member of the General Society of the War of 1812.

    O’Malley attended the Our Lady of Lourdes School in Bethesda and Gonzaga College High School.[9] He went on to The Catholic University of America, graduating in 1985. Later that year he enrolled at the School of Law of the University of Maryland, Baltimore, earning his Juris Doctor in 1988 and passing the bar that same year.[10]

  48. “Hillary[nb 2] Diane Rodham was born on October 26, 1947, at Edgewater Hospital in Chicago, Illinois.[2][3] … The entire wikipedia article is quite impressive.”

    How true, how true. Being born in 1947 is very impressive. I rate it right up there with being born in 1946 or 1948. And, we can be assured that Hillary, ever the self made woman, did it all by herself.

    I think it is fair to say that being born in 1947 is one of Hillary’s highest and finest accomplishments.

  49. Watching the Democrat Debate and it is official. Republicans are stupid. Democrats are intelligent. The only other result of the Republican Debates is the Fish Moan. See above.

  50. I watched the entire debate. I was impressed. I like all three. I don’t think Bernie is too old. Nor Hillary. Nor is O’malley too young. I liked Bernie on some issues, O’Malley on some and Hillary on medical care. I watched all of the debates in both parties thus far. The RepubliCons are a bit wacko. O’Malley’s comments about “boots on the ground” was real good. They are humans walking in those boots and the RepubliCons want more wars and wars forever.

  51. So who won the NFL game? I flipped some channels and could not find it. Downton Abbey was on earlier and maybe the Downton fans missed out on the debate because of the importance of Britain.

  52. The problem with Hillary is that she is part of the problem but an insider that might be able to tune the beast down. Her advantage is that she is an insider, well connected, very experienced in triumphs as well as failures, the latter being the most important, and she could go the distance, two terms.

    Bernie is too extreme even though he is more on the money regarding ending the oligarchy of America. He might not be able to make it two terms with the type of warfare he is designing. Eight years ages a person at both ends more than in the middle.

    O’Malley is better than any Republican option, but not close enough to get the nomination. If Hillary can dodge a few bullets and stay on the fine tuning to make stuff better program, she will win the nomination.

    In the end it comes down to how disgustingly rich and repetitive the Republicans can be in bad mouthing absolutely everything and how many Americans will be effected. There is a lot of inbreeding in America, who knows?

  53. I like Isaac’s analysis. I too fear inbreeding in America. As a dog and member of the pac we have to watch our rears.

  54. Paul C. Schulte…..Catholics in general are not likely to vote for pro life candidates.
    Any more than Teddy Kennedy, John Kerry, Joe Biben, or numerous other Catholic politicians are likely to be prolife.
    The official dogma of the Vatican means little or nothing to most American Catholics today.
    By contrast, the pro choice voters ARE likely to to vote for pro choice candidates.

  55. Isaac…..you should be a bit more careful about calling any group “disgusting rich and repetative”.
    Coming from you, that is really ironic.
    How about repeating your “the three stooges” bit again. No one could ever tire if that after the 100 plus or 1000 plus times you used that clever, clever phase.
    Or that all future Democrats will FOREVER be saddled with all of the mistakes W., Reagan, Coolidge, Lincoln, etc.
    I have pointed out to you before that at SOME POINT Obama took ownership of his administration.
    Like The Arab Spring, “ending the war in Iraq”, the jv ISIS team, stacking on 5plus Trillion in debt, the Obamacare mess and blantant lies sold because of “the stupidy of the American voter, the treachery and srupidity involved in the Bergdahl swap _and the victory lap in the Rose Garden after that stupid “trade”, etc.
    But we do understand, by your “disgusting rich and repetitive” claim, that he just couldn’t help in.
    ( the ol 3 stooges bit)…..very clever, never tiresome.

  56. Tom – the opposite of pro-life is pro-death. When we look at the numbers, the Lationos are strongly pro-life and anti- pro-death. Catholic men are more likely to be pro-life than women. This is problem for Hillary if somebody works it.

  57. tnash80hotmailcom – You beat me to the punch on that post. Well written. Isaac argues as a 2 year old would with name calling and putting everyone into groups. I bet my dad could beat up his dad!

  58. Paul C. Schulte……Hispanics are likely to be Catholic and they are more likely to be pro life than non Hispanic Catholics.
    They also tend to vote for pro choice candidates. In election after election, the Hispanic voting block has strongly tilted toward Democratic candidates.

  59. Judging by the comments it would seem that the debate was not watched by many of our bloggers and that they were on the NFL channel or part of the Downton Abbey ugly hat lovers.

  60. When I first arrived to reside in San Diego in December 1986, and after having seen the daily human wave walking up the median strip of I-5 from the border, I became indelibly concerned with immigration. It wasn’t so much the illegality of it, or that Reagan just pardoned the trespass, because justice transcends borders. It was about the potential future voting pool shift. I remember telling a friend that I did not want a horde of conservative Catholics changing the political winds toward Torquemada.

    This still is a concern, but I’ve noticed a huge number of Latinos are protestant and non-denominational, perhaps having given up on Catholicism for the mortal injustices they’ve had to endure below the border and now above it.

    Here’s a partial confirmation:

    http://www.iosde.org/3/post/2016/01/united-nations-declares-the-holy-see-legally-responsible-and-accountable-to-indigenous-peoples-for-effects-and-legacy-of-racist-colonial-papal-bulls-and-doctrines.html

  61. I liked the comments by O’Malley on the phrase “boots on the ground”. When your neighbor, your nephew, your offspring gets killed in Afghanistan, he will likely be wearing boots and they will likely be laying sideways on the ground. When these Republicans say they want boots on the ground they fail to mention that the boots have humans in them which are in danger of being killed.

  62. Issac writes, “The problem with Hillary is that she is part of the problem . . .”

    I couldn’t agree with you more.

    I just wish she’d come out and tell us what Bill thinks on each issue. It’d be fun to watch her shape distort itself as we watched.

  63. tnash80hotmailcom – “They also tend to vote for pro choice candidates. In election after election, the Hispanic voting block has strongly tilted toward Democratic candidates.”

    In other words. Breaking the law and the promise of free stuff trumps their religious beliefs.

  64. Did anyone, if they watched the debates last night, notice it was 95% focused on issues and solutions? The 5% focused on trash talking was an agreement not to trash talk.

    Did anyone, if they watched any one of the Republican debates, notice that they were almost entirely focused on trash talking, against each other, then when that got boring onto Obama? The substance was composed of lies, exaggerations, and just plain stupidity.

    Did anyone, if they read the papers, notice Trump’s string of thoughts on the Iran prisoner swap? First it should have been done three or four years ago, several years before there were any prisoners. Then Obama sold out; I suppose a one to one swap would have been a better accomplishment. Then when he took a breath and realized that the American public was kind of happy about it, the Donald tried to Trump Obama by attributing the success of the swap to himself and his bringing it up, for the past three, four, or five years.

    It wouldn’t matter to that unfortunate segment of Americans what Obama accomplished, or what Clinton might be capable of doing, a smear is a smear, is a smear, is a smear. There are those that have nothing better to say than, ‘right now Hillary has a big target painted on her chest.’, or calling someone vapid because of one of their nationalities.

    The sorry lot that will produce a Republican choice have a lot of supporters. That, is the spooky part. The sad part is that if Clinton gets elected we can look forward to another four and perhaps eight years of Republicans holding America hostage by opposing anything and everything a Democratic President might propose, regardless of whether it is beneficial for America or not. Or not, Clinton is the best bobber and weaver out there; she just might make a positive difference. Her continuity argument is more logical than Bernie’s ‘come the revolution’ one. I like Bernie but he is too old, too remote, and regardless of whether he is right or not, the changes have to come from within.

    Americans made choices based on emotions triggered by a political tsunami of media driven lies and exaggerations when they voted in Republicans to the Senate and Congress. Those Republicans held America hostage for the sake of power and power only. America suffered. What’s the old saying about repeating a mistake, again, and again.

    America has consistently done better, both economically and socially under a Democratic President. Look at Reagan and Bush for the results of a future Republican President.

  65. Did anyone, if they read his posts, notice that when isaac writes about the Democrat debates every thing is rainbows and unicorns?

    Did anyone, if they read his posts, notice that when isaac writes about the Republicans everything is bad and evil? That he states the same thing every time.

    His selective memory always seems to forget how the dems didn’t work with Reagan and how the Community Organizer had everything when he first got into office and he lost it.

  66. “America has consistently done better, both economically and socially under a Democratic President. Look at Reagan and Bush for the results of a future Republican President.”

    As I try to control myself here, I implore you to watch this video. I spent literally years studying body language because I kept being betrayed by the same person over and over and over till I thought I would go mad.. What a revelation! The truth was staring me in the face from day one!

    As a group, politicians lie incessantly which is why most people don’t vote. Many of them stay out of prison by becoming politicians You could probably say the same thing about lawyers. Don’t deny yourself, watch this video!!

  67. stevegroen “I just wish she’d come out and tell us what Bill thinks on each issue. It’d be fun to watch her shape distort itself as we watched.”

    You mean shape shift? LOL Isn’t that what politicians do best?

  68. Hildegard

    Take the time to review statistics and facts covering the past sixty odd years. Reagan left America the greatest recession since the Great Depression. Bush eclipsed that by taking a surplus and then creating a recession that dwarfed Reagan’s.

    It is socialism that has made this country great. The unions built the middle class. The government assisted in building the middle class. The middle class is the crucible of American prosperity. The middle class has been eroding continuously since Republican intervention in the evolution of American society over the past sixty years. The guy with the money and the idea is nothing without millions of workers. The millions of workers can always find another guy with the idea and money. This is a reality that seems to be missed by those delusional Americans who worship at the alters of the mega rich and manipulators. We don’t need them. They need us.

  69. Beldar of Remulak: Speaking of boots on the ground you really need to get up to speed on the REALITY of how war mongering BOTH parties are. How long have you been here?

  70. Jim

    Did you watch the debates. I did. The GOP debates were nothing more than a circus complete with a carnival barker sporting a mammoth comb over. Of course a trickle of sanity found its way into one of the rings but not all three.

    Did you watch the debates. Idid. The Democrat debates focused on issues and then a little of the candidate. Of course there are skeletons in the closets and Hillary is no angel. However, she’s been there, done that, and is the best equipped of anyone to man the helm. You want your captain to be able to navigate through the sewer and to do that he or she has to be a little like a rat. Or you can have the guy that sees the light but lands on the rocks. As for the GOP options, there aren’t any.

  71. Isaac; Why oh why do I bother posting these superlative videos when the people who need to watch them the most, don’t?

    “Take the time to review statistics and facts covering the past sixty odd years….” Sorry, I am not going to waste my engaging in a statistics war. I’ll leave that to the many left brain dominant types on this site. All I know is that both parties SUCK. I don’t need statistics to prove it.

  72. I’m starting to think Isaac is a plant/troll/government shill…too many main stream talking points. Either that or he’s just really brainwashed. Isaac you gotta wake up, dude!!! They’re f*cking with your mind…

  73. I have been here on several occasions since your World War One. WWI as you like to praise it. America is dumb about warfare. You allow yourselves to be tools of the Woodrow Wilson’s of the world who promise to make the World Safe For Democracy. Now, both parties are not the same. All three last night were against War in the muddle east. They were not against joining with others to stomp some terrorists down but they were not the Lindsey Graham yakkers who preach “boots on the ground”. Yes, it is like preachers. The Republican candidates all wish to put your kid on the ground, on his back dead on the ground, so that they can make money for your military industrial complex. I have probably been here longer than most of you and I might remind you of Ike. His last warning when he left office was of The Military Industrial Complex. He knew. For some of you, “Ike” was Dwight David Eisenhower who was your President from 1952 to 1960 and he stayed out of Nam. The next chump was afraid to be called “soft on Communism” by the Republcans and so he got you into Vietnam. “And its one, two, three, What Are We Fightin For? Dont ask me I dont give a damn, next stop is Viet Nam.” etc.

  74. Isaac, Sorry, your wrong. A large govt. regulating people to death did not make this country great. Inventors, monopolies, capitalism, property ownership, discrimination and most importantly, a small govt. are what made this country great. The decline over the years you are seeing is due to an ever increase in govt. involvement/size where it wasn’t needed. I could care less which side wins, they both want to expand govt.

  75. Regardless of all the mindless inflamatory prattle from ‘Humpty Trumpty’ & the other greasy jerks of the GOP scrambling to pander to the whacko-right –I’ll cheerfully go with the party (& whomever it picks to lead it) that has continued to create –in the face of mindless negative non-productive opposition-an admittedly slow but solid growth back from the horrendous financial mess of the disastrous Repug-Bush led years!
    Who in their right mind would vote to bring back that creepy old bunch of negative, bilious white men of the GOP/ and the younger freaks of the T-party????? Time to use their own ‘just say NO’ against the self-serving party of 2 wars (both unpaid for) & rampant greed-mongering tax-breaks for the ultra-wealthy (also un-paid for!) For those chosen few they revived Reagans same old useless trickle-down bullcrap claiming it would stimulate American jobs whereas in fact they avidly attempted to block saving US jobs & took the $$$ & ran to hide it from taxes & invest it in our competitors nations overseas,
    The totally screwed up Grand Old Party (were once but nevermore) including it’s loud-mouthed fake-Christians dragged this country down -both economically & ethically & morally!
    Having NEVER voted for ONE of them when they were a far more dignified reasonable work-across-the-aisle party -with the way theyve now disintegrated (ever since the God-awful Newt Gingrich led-days) into the party of self-serving greed, negativity, bigotry & demagoguery I NEVER will!!!!

  76. Jim22

    Don’t ever be sorry for your opinion. However, make certain when you respond that you respond apples to apples. Socialism, or the inclusion of more people in the consuming pool is what made this country great. Without the people to make the stuff there would not be stuff to sell. Without the people to buy the stuff there would be no reason to make the stuff. Those geniuses that organize and fund the process are like batteries in a flashlight; they can be replaced. The machine is the people, including the education, stability, and continuity all provided by governments, or the wishes of the people.

    Governments are living things and must be kept alive and trimmed from time to time. The most needed judicious trimming right now is the military. Our military is way, way over sized and designed to fight wars that are impossible to fight anymore. Viet Nam, Afghanistan-both USSR and USA, and Iraq have proved that. The most effective military of the day, today and tomorrow, is the rapidly deployed strike force oriented with air support and intelligence. A billion dollars a bomber is absolute stupidity and the money would be better spent divided between education and more efficient ways of killing the enemy; there will always be an enemy, besides us. The technology and readiness derived from an extensive and advanced rapid strike force infrastructure could easily and rapidly be expanded if need be.

    The problems with the US can be fixed with a judicious pruning: tax reform to repatriate corporate wealth, closing loopholes where there is really no benefit-when a millionaire loses the opportunity to avoid paying taxes then so what, transferring tax breaks into more beneficial and future energy sources, raising taxes on gasoline to pay for infrastructure, providing jobs and wealth-even with gas at $4 a gal an extra .20 would not make or break anyone, mandating mpg levels that would advance automobile technology-not pulling a Reagan and allowing SUVs to skate, etc…..

  77. Barkindog “They are humans walking in those boots and the RepubliCons want more wars and wars forever.”

    YOU’VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME. Does anyone ever watch the videos I post? Because if you had watched the video I posted showing how there is no difference between Hillary (everyone’s favorite Progressive Democrat) and the GOP stance on the war in Syria you, Isaac and other deluded knee jerk Republic bashers wouldn’t be making such woefully ignorant statements. You can take a horse to water…. And NO I am not a Republican.

  78. I should have said REPUBLICAN not Republic bashers but let’s face it. You guys are Republic bashers as well. All hail The State!!! Our new God.

  79. Neil: I’m so sorry they’ve done this to you! That rant was priceless, or rather worthless. You gotta know that both parties are two heads of the same beast. Good God, there are still people as deluded as you who don’t know that. Sorry, it’s a bit shocking. Don’t worry, I’m not going to waste time trying to deprogram you. I’ll let the others bang THEIR heads against a wall.

  80. Jim, You will never get the time and energy spent trying to have an intellectually honest discussion w/ Sgt. Preston of the Yukon.

  81. Both sides agree on gun control regardless of the semantics: regulation, control, restrictions, etc. Both sides agree that if someone commits a crime, armed or otherwise, gets caught, goes to prison, gets out after consorting with criminals and honing his or her craft, they should not have access to firearms. This means, of course, that those who are identified by both sides as not having this god given right to ‘bear arms’ need to be identified or put on a list. This necessitates a verification as to the person applying for a weapon and their name being or not being on the list. Both sides are in agreement but this is where the two sides start to split apart.

    The rational side believes in the 2nd amendment but with restrictions: who’s permitted, how to verify, and education

    The irrational side believes in the 2nd amendment with restrictions but no restrictions because and this is where they leave the beam.

    So, let’s go back to some cannot ‘bear arms’. Both sides would not want to have people who have fed their greed, need, or wants using the threats provided by firearms able to access a firearm. Now, let’s take a look at the terrorists. If a person threatened to use force with firearms or bombs to state their political, religious, or personal points, or if they went so far as to use a firearm then they would, both sides would agree, be placed on a list of people who should not have access to weapons, if they weren’t placed in jail as well.

    So, what about the terrorists in Oregon who have taken up arms to support their own political/personal beliefs which include the use of government land/our land. It only follows that after they are subdued, and they should be subdued, because they used arms to terrorize the people, they should never be allowed to access firearms again, including after they get out of jail. Or cuz you hate the government and like cowboys, this is alright. Can of worms.

  82. Neil – I guess the campaign has begun. Obama has added 5 trillion to our national debt. You show your ignorance when you say there were two wars, there was only one with a cease-fire. The first half of the war was paid for by our allies. You clearly are hoping the cankles lady will not get arrest and/or convicted before the election.
    The question is: Who do you work for? The DNC or Hillary? almost the same thing.

  83. Issac writes, “The middle class is the crucible of American prosperity. The middle class has been eroding continuously since Republican intervention in the evolution of American society over the past sixty years. The guy with the money and the idea is nothing without millions of workers. The millions of workers can always find another guy with the idea and money. . . .”

    It’ll be a shame when all the manufacturing that’s been outsourced to China to skirt labor and environmental laws here finds relatively few consumers in the US to buy these products as a result of the intentional gutting of the middle class. But Detroit’s desolation isn’t the end of it I’m afraid.

    True patriots these maquiladora capitalists.

  84. stevegroen

    While other more intelligent countries such as Germany, Denmark, etc pay their workers more, with better benefits, and the government, labor, and corporate work together to keep the workers in the country with labor and environmental laws.

    The problem isn’t too much government. The problem is the dysfunction of the three parts because corporate owns government. All the manufacturing that has been outsourced was done so for top end gains, not the best interests of the American people, the people who built the corporations and then were left holding the bag.

    It’s not a question of who should rule it’s a question of how all three should rule. Today, in the US, the global corporate interests, which do relatively nothing for the average American, rule. So sad, so sad. So pathetic, so pathetic. So treasonous, so treasonous.

  85. Paul, or should I say Trump, Rubio, Cruz, etc fodder.

    How Obama’s Policies Increased the Debt

    However, there were some other events that Obama faced, just like every President, over which he had no control. There was less Federal income, thanks to decreased tax receipts during the recession and to the Bush tax cuts. At the same time, the cost of Social Security, Medicare and other mandatory spending continued to increase. The War on Terror, although technically over, was still being fought in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    The third, and smallest, method is how much debt was added thanks to Obama’s specific policies. The largest contribution was the Obama tax cuts, which were an extension of the Bush tax cuts. These added $858 billion to the debt in 2011 and 2012.

    The next largest was the ARRA, which added $787 billion between 2009-2012. It cut taxes, extended unemployment benefits, and funded job-creating public works projects. Both were attempts to stimulate the economy after the 2008 financial crisis

    Also, Obama increased military spending to around $800 billion a year, on average. In fact, his security budget request of $895 billion in FY 2011 set a new record. Even though troops were withdrawn from Iraq in 2012, and Osama bin Laden was eliminated in 2011, Obama requested $851 billion for security spending in his FY 2013 budget. That was more than in his first year in office. Although Obama abandoned the phrase “War on Terror,” he spent $602 billion — almost as much as the $850 billion Bush spent in eight years.

    What about the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act? It didn’t add anything to the debt in Obama’s first term. That’s because most of its costs occurred starting in 2014, after the health insurance exchanges were set up, and coverage was extended to more low-income people. In fact, tax increases will offset costs to the tune of $104 billion between 2010-2019. For more, see Obamacare Costs.

    Congress and Obama also negotiated the sequestration budget cuts. When these were subtracted from these costs, Obama’s debt contribution was $983 billion between 2009-2017. (Source: WSJ, Ezra Klein, Doing the Math on Obama’s Deficits, January 31, 2014) Article updated January 7, 2015

    Ya sees what ya wants ta see and ya believes what ya wants ta believe.

    Obama will go down in history as one of the greatest American Presidents, in spite of the rampant ignorance and destructive Republican carnival.

  86. Issac writes, “Obama will go down in history as one of the greatest American Presidents . . .”

    I’ll give him the fact that he’s gotten unemployment down to ~5%, but that’s about all he’s done if he can even take credit for that.

    He bailed out Wall Street, he bailed out Detroit’s elite, he assassinated Libya’s Ghadaffi and caused complete upheaval along the southern and easter rim of the Mediterranean, he funded the attempted overthrow of al-Assad and the actual overthrow of the democratically elected Ukrainian government leading to annexation of the Crimean (triggering what may be a cold war), he assassinated Osama bin Laden without constitutional authority, he stood by while Bibi mowed the lawn in Gaza while we hand him $8,000,000.00 per day, he held indefinitely in detention Guantanamo those he has no evidence to convict, he’s caused likely thousands of civilian deaths through violation of sovereign countries’ airspace with drones, he’s called data-mining a “minor inconvenience,” his ICE agents routinely violate the privacy with full-body searches of persons crossing the border, and he supports the TPP and other so-called free trade agreements which take jobs away from our middle class and crushes labor associations in favor of the corporate tyrants you rant about. .

    But you go ahead and label him the greatest president ever. It’s absolutely mind-boggling that you’d offer such an idea. It’s nonsensical.

  87. Paul, there’s no question that the worst modern president was 43. He hadn’t a clue.

    “I believe that human beings and fish can co-exist peacefully.” <= not even close to cognition.

  88. I can see that there was shift back to self-defination of “recession”, and again saw the statement about Reagan leaving behind a terrible recession.
    I’m not going to try to correct the recird again…..been there, done that.
    But I’d rather allow myself the same leeway that a blindly partisan hack repeatedly gives himself, and just make up my own home brew defination of a recession.
    So Obama has left us with nothing but an 8 year recession. If 5-6% GDP growth over a multiyear period is viewed as an 8 year recession under Reagan, then certainly the 2% growth under Obama is indeed a severe recession…probably a deression.
    Worst since the FDR depression.

  89. Baghdad Bob, meet Sgt Preston of the Yukon. Sgt Preston is the type of guy you PRAY doesn’t sit next to you on a plane or in a bar.

    NOTHING has been a better “recruiting video for ISIS” than our pussy prez “waxing” women and children w/ reckless and cowardly drone attacks. NOTHING!

  90. “It’ll be a shame when all the manufacturing that’s been outsourced to China to skirt labor and environmental laws here finds relatively few consumers in the US to buy these products as a result of the intentional gutting of the middle class.”

    Should we send absentee ballots to China so those workers can express their appreciation for the party that has done so much to build their economic future?

    Who would have thought – GOP, the workers party??? Workers of the world unite, and elect a republican???

  91. ” If 5-6% GDP growth over a multiyear period is viewed as an 8 year recession under Reagan, then certainly the 2% growth under Obama is indeed a severe recession…probably a deression.”

    Where are you getting 5 to 6 percent growth during the Reagan years?

    A quick check at the St Louis FED shows real GDP on 012089 about 8.7 trillion and real GDP on 012081 of about 6.6 trillion dollars. That is about 31% growth over 8 years (8.7/6.6=1.31).

    Working with powers (1 + r)^8 = 1.31 gives annual compounded growth of roughly 3.5% – not bad for a mature industrial economy – but no where near 5 to 6%.

    Is it possible the 5 to 6% growth rate mixes in inflation?

  92. Bigfatmike

    You might add that growth in Reagan’s 8 years was at the beginning and then the economy tanked. He stated as much on TV. You can’t lower taxes/revenue and raise spending/arming up and expect ends to meet. Reagan created a recession that started in his second term and pretty much doomed Bush Sr. Clinton rode the tech wave and left a surplus but the little brush repeated the Reagan concept and left a mess for Obama. Obama’s increase in the debt is nothing compared to the little cowboy’s when you take it as a percentage increase. But all that doesn’t matter cuz if you hate someone you hate someone.

    Obama’s legacy will continue after he is gone in normalization of foreign affairs, transfer of responsibility to defeat ISIS to Muslim countries. Etc. Let’s not forget who created the catastrophe. Has anyone heard from the idiot lately? Does anyone want to hear from him? No one, not even his brother.

  93. Anyone reading these comments can fact check the assertion that that Reagan spurt was “at the beginning, then the economy tanked”.
    I will concede that any partisan hack can make up a homebrew definition of recessions, etc. And I have seen this done repeatedly by the same sanctimious partison hack who seems to feel that he’s free to invent his own set of facts to tell us “Democrats good, Republicans BAD”.
    There is a certaian consistency demonstrated, and I suppose a great deal of comfort derived from, repeated spouting one’s one set of “facts”.
    For the record, anyone interested in actual facts can can check to see if the Reagan years started out strong for the ecomony, then tanked.
    All historical economic data indicate that exactly the opposite occurred, but I’m reluctant to disabuse partisan hacks of their tightly held fantacies.

  94. I didn’t think that brushing aside a minor threat from “a JV team” like ISIS would require farming out the job to the fractured Islamic counties.
    It seems that if Obama, his genius NS Advisor Susan Rice, Arab Spring architechs like Obama/Hillary/Rice had properly evaluated and responded to thteats, that the JV Team issue need nit be passed to the subsequent administration or an Arab “alliance”.
    IF a Republican wins in the presidency, then repeat the mantra…….it’s all Obama’s fault.
    Even if a Republican president screws up miserably on future ISIS-related policy, just copy the patisan hacks’ mantra, and hold the GOP blameless.

  95. bigfatmike…..I think that 3.5% average GDP growth during the Reagan administration is accurate. I think that 1984 was the peak year of growth, at about 7% GDP growth.
    There were additionally a few years of 4%+ GDP growth during the reagan years, but not the 5-6% years (excluding 1984) that I had mistakenly remembered.
    The 3.5% AVERAGE growth factors in the negative GDP numbers in the the early c. 1981-1982 Reagan years, and brings down the average. In my opinion, that early recession was a “double-dip recession” of the c.1979-1980 recession.
    So my previous statement of “5-6%” growth is not accurate. With the execption of the 7% growth in ’84, we had a few years of 4+ % growth under Reagan.
    I was rusty on those numbers, and had previously used better numbers to refute a claim made that Reagan “gave us 8 years of recession”. That is nonsense, as is the claim made previously today that the early Reagan years saw some growth, then the remainder of those years saw recession.
    If anything, the opposite was true.

  96. Bigfatmike…..I may well have overstated the average GDP growth rate of the Obama administration, as well. It may not AVERAGE the 2% number I used.
    Post recession, the 2% GDP number is probably accurate, throwing out the worst couple of GDP years from the 8 years of Obama.
    By using that same standard, the non-recession/post recovery Reagan years MIGHT have averaged 5-6%. I’d have to average out those years, excluding the early ’80s recession in Reagan’s administration.

  97. @tnash80hotmailcom:

    I think you remarks are pretty close to what seemed to be the case when I looked at the chart for real GDP.

    The low point of the economy and the height of unemployment occurred at the end of the recession, roughly, 4th quarter 1982, with unemployment at nearly 11% and GDP approximately 6.5 trillion. After that GDP rises and unemployment falls – with the usual up and down squiggles you see in most economic data.

    A striking difference in that economy and today’s economy is the jobless recovery. If you look at the early 1980’s recession, unemployment has a clear, near symmetrical peak: July 1981 unemployment at 7.2% took off rising to 10.8% in December 1982, then declining to 7.2% June 1984.

    In contrast to that recession, unemployment rose rapidly from about 5% December 2007 to a peak of 10% October 2009 and then started a long slow decline. Unemployment, currently at 5.5% – 6 years after the end of the recession – , has yet to reach pre recession levels. That ought to trouble everybody – regardless of political view.

    Not only that, today’s unemployment rates are held down by declines in the civilian labor force participation rate. We have strong evidence that the CLFPR has declined not just because of retiring baby boomers but also because working age people have dropped out of the labor force – discouraged by years of fruitless job search. This is a great, national tragedy that will reduce economic growth and lower our standard of living for decades to come.

  98. @tnash80hotmailcom: ” I may well have overstated the average GDP growth rate of the Obama administration, as well. It may not AVERAGE the 2% number I used.”

    .My back of the envelop, overall number for the Obama years was around 1.2%, while growth for the good years – end of recession to date – was roughly 1.6%. At least there is economic growth, and jobs are being created, albeit at a low rate.

    So what could account for slow growth and the jobless recovery? Globalization, secular stagnation, inequality, what else? So far we have lots of ideas and controversy, but no clear answers.

  99. @tnash80hotmail.com: “By using that same standard, the non-recession/post recovery Reagan years MIGHT have averaged 5-6%”

    My quick and dirty number for the Reagan good years was just a small fraction under 5%.

    The question is how much credit do presidents really deserve for economic performance. If you think a president greatly changed economic policy during a recession it might make sense to look at only the good years to evaluate the results of the policy changes. On the other hand if we are just making political talking points then why shouldn’t presidents held accountable for all the years in office.

    I think there is a pretty good argument that presidents usually have little influence on economic performance. Consider, some of the main levers to control the economy include monetary policy, fiscal policy, tax rates and trade policy.

    Presidents don’t control monetary policy. They have little influence on fiscal and tax policy except with the cooperation of congress. Trade policy is set by long term international agreements.

    We give presidents much credit for economic performance. But it seems to me that results – good or bad – must be shared with a much larger cast of actors.

  100. BFM writes, “Unemployment, currently at 5.5% – 6 years after the end of the recession – , has yet to reach pre recession levels. That ought to trouble everybody – regardless of political view. . . . ”

    Anybody know how much of the reduction in unemployment to “5.5%” is due to the military-industrial complex? Do I get to blame it on the war economy as I so desire?

  101. When HIllary is president it will make Obama look like he was a SAINT.
    In fact a lot of the bad ideas that Obama has executed were actually Clinton era initiatives.
    Promote fair treatment for Sanders!

  102. Bigfatmike……due to dropping my subscription to this column, and having to post comments via Word Press, my last comment simply disappeared.
    Since this may happen again when I hit “post”, I won’t try to retype the comment that disappeared.
    But to summarize it, I think there are in fact macroeconomic factors beyond a President’s control. I commented that if FDR had been elected in 1928 instead of 1932, he would have been a one term president like Hoover.
    On the fiscal side, there are periods were some Presidents have influenced the economy. That is especially true when a president has either a majority in Congress, or bipartisan cooperation in passing budgets, tax reductions or increases, etc. Reagan passed much of the legislation he sought, due to a compliant Democratic Congessional majority ……a makority that existed for most of his administrative.
    The tax cuts, increased defense spending etc. could not have passed without aTip O’neil getting the legislation through.
    There are examples in Bush 43 and Obama administrations of fiscal policy objectives getting passed into law, for better or for worse.
    In the case of Bush 41, he had no control over Greenspan’s decision to tighten monetary policy c. midway into his term, and that monetary move was largely responsible for the recession toward the end of Bush 41’s term.

  103. @tnash80hotmailcom

    Good points. Without a friendly congress, presidents have real problems. But we treat them like the captain of the ship. If it is smooth sailing many of us are happy. But if the ship goes down, we put it on the president regardless of what happened.

    Not only that it seems that it is the last few months of the term that are most important. A president could have 6 percent, or more, growth for years. But let the last 6 months falter and he has a real problem going into the election. It works the other way as well. We could be eating grass for 3 and a half years. But let the last 6 months show an up tick and the guy is a hero.

  104. @stevegroen “Anybody know how much of the reduction in unemployment to “5.5%” is due to the military-industrial complex? Do I get to blame it on the war economy as I so desire?”

    I suspect the answer to that may be complicated.

    But there there are a couple of points that suggest that defense spending may not be propping up employment. The first is that defense spending has been declining since Q3 2011. Unless the economy were beginning to overheat (which is not the case now), lower government spending ought to decrease economic activity and increase unemployment. The second is that there are studies that suggest that dollar for dollar we create fewer jobs with defense spending than putting the dollars in other parts of the economy.

    As a first cut, It looks to me like unemployment has declined despite reductions in defense spending.

    If you are going to make your argument to a skeptical audience you better do your homework.

  105. Bigfatmike…..I remember a professor in 1971 pointing out to our class that the rising unemployment rate was a really bad sign of how Nixon was handling the economy.
    Looking at the the draft calls under LBJ, the fact that his buildup in Vietnam meant snatching any non-deferred working age male late teens -early 20s, I pointed out that perhaps the drawdown in Vietnam of c.400,000 under Nixon at that point had inevitable negative consequences on the unemployment rate.
    If the Nixon economy at that stage had not been transitioning to the all volunteer army, if Nixon had been snatching hundreds of thousands of working age younger males and “employed them” in the military, then the unemployment numbers might have been closer to those of the peak LBJ years.
    In the nearly 45 year era of the all volunteer army, I don’t see that the the size of the military has had much of an impact on the unemployment rate.
    A bigger factor seems to changes in labor workforce participation. There is now probably now a smaller percentage of “working age adults” participating in the labor force than in decades, probably in generations.
    Part of that is due to an aging population reaching retirementment age. Part of it seems to be the explosion in recent years of SS disability roles involving those well below normal retirement age.
    And part of it seems to be those who took early retirement, or who just quit looking for work. I think that the number of actively employed adults, as a percentage of the “potential workforce” is very low now.

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