I have found the Democratic debates really interesting to watch. For the first time in my lifetime, these debates actually have some substance and drama. There was a couple of interesting moments last night, including the suggestion by Hillary Clinton that it is out of bounds for Sanders to raise the money that she has taken from Wall Street as a “smear.” I thought that Clinton did a good job on various points with strong responses, including the progressive label issue. However, one of the most intriguing moments was Clinton saying that it was ridiculous to call her the “establishment” candidate because she is a woman. For many, the Clintons are the personification of the establishment with huge donors, PACs, control of the DNC, and a massive political machine. Even the Washington Post responded with “Come on” to the suggestion that she is not the ultimate establishment candidate. Yet, Clinton’s point is that she is also the trying to become the first woman president and thus must be considered an outsider candidate. It seemed to resonate with the crowd, though Sanders appears to have tied Clinton in a national poll despite an concerted campaign from Democratic leaders and politicians aligned with Clinton. I thought it would make for an interesting discussion on the blog.
Here is the exchange:
Sanders: “I will absolutely admit that Secretary Clinton has the support of far more Governors, Senators, Mayors, members of the House. She has the entire establishment or almost the entire establishment behind her. That’s a fact. I don’t deny it. I’m pretty proud that we have over a million people who have contributed to our campaign averaging 27 bucks a piece.”
Clinton: “I’ve got to just jump in here because, honestly, Senator Sanders is the only person who would characterize me as a woman running to be the first woman president as exemplifying the establishment.”
While I certainly understand her point and that women remain underrepresented in politics, it is also true that many of the most powerful folks in Washington are women. Indeed around the world, women are the increasingly prominent like Angela Merkel, Melinda Gates, Janet Yellen, Mary Barra, Christine Lagarde, Dilma Rousseff, Sheryl Sandberg, Susan Wojcicki, Park Geun-hye, Oprah Winfrey, Ginni Rometty, Meg Whitman, Indra Nooyi, Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, Irene Rosenfeld, Ana Patricia Botín, Abigail Johnson, Marillyn Hewson and others. In Congress, there were ranked by CQ:
PARTY POWER
Rep. Diane Black (R-Tenn.)
Rep. Kay Granger (R-Tex.)
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif)
Rep. Louise Slaughter (D-N.Y.)
MEDIA SAVVY
Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif)
Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.)
Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R-Wash.)
Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.)
DEBATE SHAPERS AND SWING VOTES
Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine)
Rep. Barbara Lee (D-Calif.)
Sen. Barbara A. Mikulski (D-Md.)
Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska)
Rep. Loretta Sanchez (D-Calif.)
POLICY DEALMAKERS
Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R-N.H.)
Sen. Patty Murray (D-Was.)
Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.)
Sen. Debbie Stabenow (D-Mich.)
POLICY WORKHORSES
Rep. Marcy Kaptur (D-Ohio)
Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.)
Rep. Nita M. Lowey (D-N.Y.)
Rep. Cynthia M. Lummis (R-Wyo.)
BREAKING OUT
Sen. Shelley Moore Capito (R-W.V.)
Rep. Donna Edwards (D-Md.)
Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D-Hawaii)
Rep. Kristi Noem (R-S.D.)
FRESHMEN ON THE RISE
Sen. Joni Ernst (R-Ia.)
Rep. Gwen Graham (D-Fla.)
Rep. Mia Love (R-Utah)
Rep. Martha McSally (R-Ariz.)
Rep. Kathleen Rice (D-N.Y.)
Again, none of this means that women are adequately represented. Moreover, I think that there remains sexism in how some people view women in power, particularly in seeking the highest office in the land. However, is it still fair game to say that Clinton cannot be the symbol of the establishment because she is a woman? It may turn on the meaning of what the “establishment” is in politics.
What do you think?
Paul writes, “I would have sworn that when Bill Clinton ran for President, he and Hillary claimed we were going to get Hillary as co-President. Two for the price of one. She has already been President. Remember he gave her the healthcare thing she wrote up and it went down the tubes?”
A couple of points to take from your post: 1) Hillar did make points with her argument that she was bucking the system’s healthcare for reform in the early 90s, so don’t talk to her about how it needs to be changed; and, 2) re the co-presidency thing, I think that went out the window with the White House’s nightstand lamps she was throwing at Billo after hearing about frequent deliveries to the Oval Office of important papers by Lewinski. I still can’t figure out, however, whether Hillary is like she is because of Billo or Billo accepted those frequent deliveries because of Hillary. It’s one of Secretary Rumsfeld’s known unknowns.
stevegroen – Dick Morris intimated that Hillary was a lesbian and Bill had a high sex drive, hence the ‘bimbo eruptions,’ He later walked that back, but Huma seems very, very close to her.
Want a woman in the White House? Nominate Oprah. At least she has a record of accomplishment.
Well said @issacbasonkavichi
Both Clinton and Sanders seem highly misinformed on foreign policy. While Clinton was the Secretary of State, she seems to have been too busy giving speeches to supporters and not giving enough time to understanding transnational capitalism, the history of imperialism, and the well-known fact that power corrupts.
I couldn’t contain myself to watching the entire debate, but from what I saw, Hillary was very deceptive last night. I thought the first issue Prof. Turley raised, about donations from Wall Street, was just as important as whether she’s part of the Establishment (which I don’t think anyone with half a brain doubts) and that Bernie let her off the hook too easily.
When she stated Bernie was smearing her, he should have put her down for the count with something like, “What do you expect us to think when you take $675,000 from Goldman Sachs? You’re the lawyer. It’s at least an appearance of impropriety to take money from those who broke the back of our economy.”
He also should have nailed Billo for signing the death knell to Glass-Steagall, but he left it for us to infer. Not good enough against her deception, although I’m sure she was laying in wait for that fastball.
It makes for good entertainment, and I hate to see Bernie’s efforts go to waste, but I think both major parties have already fixed the game. When Bernie loses, please vote for Jill Stein.
stevegroen – I keep thinking Hillary has some juicy dirt on Sanders that she has promised not to release. Sometimes it is like he is only half-trying to win. God knows there is enough to run attack ads on Hillary for a lifetime. Even with Democrats it is going to start to work. She has lost men, she has lost Millenials, she is losing women.
I would have sworn that when Bill Clinton ran for President, he and Hillary claimed we were going to get Hillary as co-President. Two for the price of one. She has already been President. Remember he gave her the healthcare thing she wrote up and it went down the tubes?
Karen, I’m pretty media savvy and the only reference I have seen to Sanders being a Jew is Larry David doing his spot on impression of Sanders.
To some degree they are both parts of the establishment. First define establishment. This is, again, a word used in general terms for the purpose of becoming a catch phrase, in this case a ‘dirty word’ to tag on Clinton. She is ‘dirty’ in ways that Sanders is not, or at least not to the same degree. However, it is a dirty business and perhaps being a part of it is necessary to guide it away from its present extreme filth. At the worst, with Clinton, we can expect no cataclysmic downturn or total impasse. At best, perhaps she will do a little fifth column work and erode some of this rock hard mountain of cr*p that is our political system.
“We elected a black man as president and racial tensions have increased.” This is, perhaps, the penultimate example of giving up when something does not solve the problem. Firstly tensions, if they increased, probably have more to do with the continuing erosion of the middle class and thereby access for young blacks to a better life. Secondly, the problems of early education failures among blacks, and all less privileged kids for that matter, have been around forever, and will be around for some time to come. Thirdly, In the time Obama has been in office, the economy, the profile of inequality, and most other conditions of which the average American relates to reality, have improved. One has to ask one’s self whether or not it is the tensions that have risen or our awareness of the problem. Obama did not fix completely everything and for that he is vilified. The finger needs to be pointed at the resistance to what Obama proposed and not the limited progress due to this resistance.
Nick – I’ve already read the comment online that you’re anti-semitic if you oppose Sanders, and chauvinist if you oppose Clinton. Comments like that make me suspect that supporters cannot debate on the issues at hand, and so must try to close down debate.
Wait, so she can engage in the usual dirty politics, but it’s all OK, because she’s a woman? Her establishment behavior shouldn’t count because she has ovaries?
What happened to be being judged “on the content of their character”? Oh, wait, Clinton would not want that yardstick.
Clinton stumbled badly when asked about releasing the transcripts of her Wall Street speeches. She is evil incarnate.
Clinton is stuck in the 1980’s. She could have made that argument back then. Sanders would be the first Jewish President. I’m intrigued why that has not been in the MSM.
I wish the war mongering wicked witch was not part of the establishment. Wouldn’t it be nice if the peace makers and the peace keepers were the establishment?
We elected a black man as president and racial tensions have increased.
Will gender tensions improve if Hillary is elected – I doubt it?
I doubt that societal relations are improved by one side claiming victimhood – we should strive towards a meritocracy rather than a quota driven society (“my turn” is not a compelling battle cry).
I have never understood the satisfaction that some people seem to feel by claiming victimhood – I like to win, but more I like to deserve to win; a gifted but undeserved win is pretty hollow.
Someone went to a lot of trouble compiling this post’s list of successful women, but I’m sure that American school children, as well as most everyone in the world, have never heard of 98% of them. But they will all take note of the election of a female U.S. President. That’s the difference.
No one who isn’t part of the Establishment gets paid $750,000 for three speeches by Goldman Sachs. Oddly enough, there at least once was a Secretary of State (William Jennings Bryan) who wasn’t part of the Establishment. Bryan resigned in 1916 to protest Wilson’s only slightly concealed push for war. Sadly, he didn’t make his protest public.
Well certainly there are women in the Congress, but a female president would be a huge step forward, breaking the final political glass sealing. An obvious analogy can be made with the African-American experience. Despite representation in the Congress and various levels of the government, including the U.S. Supreme Court, all of that pales in comparison to the symbolism of America electing its first black president.
In campaign mode, the candidates of both major parties use labels loosely, to diminishing effect. “Establishment” is a smear, but “you can’t say that about a woman” is just as laughable. But Hillary has a point. The public has a collective image of “establishment” that Sanders is exploiting, which is “fair game”, as they say. But can we say that the term “establishment” has ever been imagined with a woman as the one in charge? I don’t think so, at least not in this culture. She is reminding us that, whatever powers she would be given as president, the country will be doing something it has never done before.
I wish the FBI would present their evidence for indictment and send her to a federal rest farm for a 10 year stay. I know wishfull thinking.
Get ready to hear this card played and often. This is why she will be the next potus. I am woman, hear me whine!