There was an interesting segment on CNN last week where CNN anchor Chris Cuomo reminds viewers for it is illegal for them to “possess” Wikileaks material and that, as a result, they will have to rely on the media to tell them what is in these documents. The legal assertion is dubious, but the political implications are even more concerning. Polls show that many voters view the media as biased and this is a particularly strong view among supporters of Donald Trump who view CNN and other networks openly supporting Clinton or attacking Trump. More importantly, the mainstream media has reported relatively little from the Wikileaks material and has not delved deeply into their implications, including embarrassing emails showing reporters coordinating with the Clinton campaign and supposedly “neutral” media figures like Donna Brazile, formerly with CNN, allegedly slipping advance question material to Hillary Clinton. The credibility of the media is at an all-time low and most voters hardly feel comfortable with this material being reported second-hand or interpreted by the mainstream media. So is it really illegal for voters to have this material?
Cuomo was about to discuss embarrassing emails from Hillary Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta’s inbox but he stopped to remind viewers “remember, it’s illegal to possess these stolen documents,” Cuomo says. “It’s different for the media, so everything you’re learning about this, you’re learning from us.”
First, the criticism of Cuomo as trying to keep people from reading this material (which is damaging to Clinton) seems a bit far-fetched. It is more likely that he felt obligated to disclose the uncertain legal status of such documents. However, he overstated the case in my view.
It is true that possession of stolen items is a crime and documents can be treated as stolen items. However, this material has already been released and it is doubtful that downloading widely available material (particularly in a matter of great public interest) would be seen as prosecutable possession. Whoever had original possession has released them widely to the public like throwing copies out a window by the thousands. Whatever crime is alleged, it will be directed at the original hacker and not the public. Just downloading and reading public available material is unlikely to be viewed as a crime unless you use material to steal someone’s identity or commit a collateral crime. Otherwise, possession of the Pentagon Papers would lead to the arrest of tens of thousands of citizens.
More importantly, most people do not download these documents but read them on line and there is no actionable crime in reading the material from any of the myriad of sites featuring the Wikileaks documents.
Cuomo is right about status of reporters being clear and protected. In Bartnicki v. Vopper, 532 U.S. 514 (2001), the Supreme Court reaffirmed that the media is allowed to publish material that may have been obtained illegally and declared a law unconstitutional to the extent that it would make such media use unlawful. The Court reaffirmed the need to protect the first amendment interests and took particular note of the fact that the material was a matter of public interest:
“The Court holds that all of these statutes violate the First Amendment insofar as the illegally intercepted conversation touches upon a matter of “public concern,” an amorphous concept that the Court does not even attempt to define. But the Court’s decision diminishes, rather than enhances, the purposes of the First Amendment, thereby chilling the speech of the millions of Americans who rely upon electronic technology to communicate each day.”
While technical arguments could be made that downloading is a form of possession of stolen documents, it is a dubious argument when the material is widely distributed and a matter of public interest. The weight of the existing case law militates heavily against the legal threat described on CNN.
There is no license required to be a journalist, therefore. every citizen is a journalist when disseminating information in any format. WE are the Media.
Tim Black is Ken Hamblin and if you don’t know who the Black Avenger is you are too young to vote.
By that you mean only Boomers should vote I presume — the very same people who have allowed us to reach this electoral morass by being brain dead partisans of the duopoly!?
No, I didn’t know who this dude is – didn’t grow up in this country so I have some gaps in media and popular culture. Just looked him up – no, Tim is most certainly NOT Ken. Tim is a Progressive not a Conservative and he deals with facts.
Tim Black picks up this post
Cuomo is right about status of reporters being clear and protected. In Bartnicki v. Vopper, 532 U.S. 514 (2001), the Supreme Court reaffirmed that the media is allowed to publish material that may have been obtained illegally and declared a law unconstitutional to the extent that it would make such media use unlawful.
Unless your name is Barret Brown:
Highlighted paragraphs below was excerpted from a whowhatwhy.org report titled: The Saga of Barrett Brown: Inside Anonymous and the War on Secrecy
Alleged “hacktivist” Barrett Brown, the 31-year old mislabeled “spokesman” for the shadowy hacker collective known as Anonymous, faces federal charges that could put him away for over a hundred years. Did he engage in a spree of murders? Run a child-sex ring? Not quite. His crime: making leaked emails accessible to the public—documents that shine a light on the shadowy world of intelligence contracting in the post-9/11 era.
A critically acclaimed author and provocative journalist, Brown cannot be too easily dismissed as some unruly malcontent typing away in the back of a gritty espresso lounge. He is eccentric. And he was clearly high on something, if only his own hubris, when he made a threatening video that put him in the feds’ crosshairs. But that’s not the real reason for the government’s overreaction. Evidence indicates it has a lot more to do with sending a message to the community he comes from, which the government sees, correctly, as a threat.
http://whowhatwhy.org/2013/02/21/the-saga-of-barrett-brown/
@Dance Dance Revolution, October 17, 2016 at 3:59 pm
“Why would the media interview Chomsky on any subject in which he is not expert? The man’s book is linguistics, and he works on theoretical questions rather than empirical study. That he and the banking law maven Edward Hermann write books on political topics is not of any necessary interest to anyone except the marks who buy their books.”
Are you by any chance related to the clown prince of truculent trollery who goes by “Teaching Spastics to Dance (Dance)”? 🙂
What does it mean that Chomsky “…works on theoretical questions rather than empirical study.” How would he go about “working on empirical study”?
Are you suggesting that he should do more epistemological analysis of empiricism, rather than commenting and writing about current affairs?
Were you actually thinking when you wrote that, or were you just indulging in a little snide emoting about someone whose influential analyses of political power systems you feel an authoritarian aversion to?
Chomsky first; The description reminds me that Marx a a failed journalist turned to politics,,,,leaving that aside and back to the protection of the media.
Does that protection mean they are protected from turning criminal evidence over to the proper authorities? Or if the matter has come to trial with holding that information from the judicial system?
Leap to the end user – the unwary public? What intent and what act did they commit in receiving such knowledge and that in it’s self unsupported and poorly written. At the most the charge might be gullible but is that a crime? How is a citizen to decide that this unwarranted intrusion in their life is in and of itself a crime since there is no intent and no action – at that point.
Yet we have new rules that allows arrest under suspicion of or suspicion of supporting…..followed by undefined verbiage.
Who are the real criminals in this scenario.
The unsuspecting citizen?
The suspicious by definition reporter?
The sender?
Or the government which seeks to be able to arrest all three on a whim…mere suspicion.
and those who enabled these agents to break their oath of office and spit on the Bill of Rights, Civil Rights, the entire Constitution and the Declaration of Independence.
That in and of itself is reason to put the fourth branch in the breadlines behind veterans, behind decent citizens and bar them from any government related job be it elected, appointed, or hired.
And those who voted such a condition into being or spoke on it’s behalf even in the houses of the legislature or from the Oval Office or the Courts chambers.
The crime would be violating their oath of office – providing they took one.
We see Hillary got around the mandatory security briefings and training….did she ever take an oath of office?
@phillyT, October 17, 2016 at 5:51 pm
“Julian Assange has gone round the bend, clearly. Maybe Pamela Anderson can get him straightened out.”
I don’t know what you intend with regard to either Assange or Anderson with your slyly gnomic comment here, but what does it say about the mental health of your would-be queen that she was “joking” when she reportedly asked about Assange, “Why can’t we just drone the guy?”
http://you-video.club/watch/ZHtytBWzsoo/did-hillary-want-to-drone-assange.html
@phillyT, October 17, 2016 at 5:51 pm
“We already have clear evidence that some of this material came through Russian hands, and that some but not all of the material has been altered. Some has been confirmed to be original and unaltered.”
“We,” Kemo Sabe?
It’s more than a little insulting to read accusatory claims like these when they’re unsupported by any evidence other than that of your partisan and/or personal animus.
Speaking only for myself, if you want to be taken seriously, you’ll need to, at a minimum, provide links to credible, evidence-based reports supporting your accusations.
I just see a CNN reporter says it’s perfectly ok for reporters to have them but not ordinary people. But hten that’s the Clinton News Net. I looked in the Constitution and don’t find any of that crap reporters pull like peoples and reporters right to now much less what makes them exempt from the law….But then they are reports not journalists.
We already have clear evidence that some of this material came through Russian hands, and that some but not all of the material has been altered. Some has been confirmed to be original and unaltered.
We know the Russians want Trump to win. He’s taken hundreds of millions from Russian oligarchs for multiple real estate deals and that he owes them money and favors. His former campaign chair was taking money from the Russians.
This all needs to be carefully vetted and scrutinized and taken with a grain of salt. Julian Assange has gone round the bend, clearly. Maybe Pamela Anderson can get him straightened out.
pt,
Do you have any links to your speculation? If so, would you put them here so we can all see the Putin stooging for ourselves? Definitely you can see Putin stooging in Podesta e-mails 9 but those are by the Clinton people!
Getting Clinton people to look at the abridgment of free speech, the lies, the manipulation of your candidate seems next to impossible. It’s very frustrating because important issues, things like preventing tyranny or standing against a police state seem unimportant to you gals/guys. I don’t understand why your candidate’s illegal and unethical dealings don’t matter. I don’t understand why having a muzzled press doesn’t concern you at all. I just know it doesn’t and I think that’s a shame for our nation.
Every person should support free-speech, even if its critical of your candidate of choice.
Currently, the US appears to be closer to nuclear winter for all the earth than any time prior to the Kennedy missile crisis. It appears that readers should presume that posters like the above prefer the current threat more than the prospect of the USA being in a cooperative relationship w/Russia, second only to the US in its nuclear armament.
Do a Google search of the insane war threats toward Russia by ranking US Generals in the last month or so, threatening to rain hell on Russia, and NATO planting missiles on every single NATO/Russia border, including defensive missiles that threaten to neutralize Russia’s offensive capabilities. For readers who don’t know, when Russia threatened plant missiles in Cuba, our dear Pres. Kennedy brought the planet to the brink of nuclear winter.
Is Putin not entitled to do the same?
For members who believe the US has justifiable interest in demanding another ME “regime change” in Syria, please list prior such US actions in the ME w/good outcome for the US? And by what law is the US military in Syria? What interest has the US in Syria?
How is it any different if Russia’s military was in Mexico, bombing the Mexican government into the stone age, demanding regime change, and arming Mexico’s enemies?
Have you ever thought of getting an education? The amount of grade and high school questions you ask are frightening in that they are also basic knowledge or were. If that’s what US School systems are producing I recommend Frank Zappas classic.solution. One goes to College to get laid. One goes to the library for an education.
For sure the progressive Department of Education has failed….miserably. I am shocked beyond words. At the level of this discussion group and it’s usual antagonists -:) one does not expect to read ‘By what law does….” Or being asked the difference between Mexico and Syria?
The first is contained in the USA Citizens Handbook about 5,000 words.the one they don’t teach nor probably allow in schools anymore.
Nothing personal. My generation has only one advantage over yours . We did learn it in school. Along with a short phrase. All rights have corresponding responsibilities. As for that explanation refer to the first answer..
Good news…Charges dropped against Amy Goodman.
Now let’s hope the journalists without all the connections and name recognition have their charges dropped also! And further, maybe the people who were arrested for praying could get their’s dropped? Doubt it!
This is the police state.
Agree.
Tony Podesta is the one with the investment in Russian uranium.
So he’s the Putin stooge the Clinton campaign has been railing about all this time? Why didn’t they just come out and say so???? (However, it does appear it wasn’t just the brother involved in this.)
Again, go to wikileaks twitter. The info on uranium is in Podesta 9, The new release is podesta 10 both at wikileaks twitter.
“Anyone actually interested in the truth can go to podestaemails10.”
Pretty sure that would not include our friend Dave.
The e-mails are now on wikileaks twitter itself.
Looks like Obama is possibly finally playing hardball with Putin.
Dave,
There is no reason to believe Putin has anything to do with the wikileaks release. This is claimed over and over again but no proof of the claim is offered.
There is proof of Podesta’s investment in a Russian uranium company. So maybe Podesta is the Putin stooge?
It seems to me that Clinton people will do anything to avoid having to deal with the content of these e-mails. They will lie. They will tell you you’re in danger for looking at them and they will have USG twist the arm of another nation (possibly involving large sums of Swiss francs) to cut off access to information the American public has every right to know.
Anyone actually interested in the truth can go to podestaemails10.
You can also go to #FreeJulian
“We can confirm Ecuador cut off Assange’s internet access Saturday, 5pm GMT, shortly after publication of Clinton’s Goldman Sachs speechs.” (from wikileaks twitter)
Now what threats do you suppose the US used to make that happen? I think the suppression of free speech is what’s illegal, not knowing about what the govt. is doing!
#podestaemails10 is the latest release
The Demoncrats are terrified of Tulsi Gabbard – she is a woman “of color”, served in combat though she could have taken an exemption, is super intelligent, speaks her mind and has integrity.
From Wikileaks Podesta emails – Note the date. It has already been decided that HRC would be the nominee. The DNC tried to knee cap her by running another Demoncrat against her, but she easily won her seat in the House. The MSM has ignored her – PBS ran less than a minute of her speech endorsing Sanders at the DNC Convention. The MSM didn’t run it at all.
I just hope the Trumpsters will get their five friends to the polls to vote. And those of us not in swing states will vote for Jill and get her the percentage she needs for federal funding. We must defeat the Globalist Corporate Beast.
From: Darnell Strom Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 3:13 PM
To: Tulsi Gabbard (tulsi.gabbard@gmail.com) Cc: Michael Kives
Subject: Disappointed
Representative Gabbard,
We were very disappointed to hear that you would resign your position with the DNC so you could endorse Bernie Sanders, a man who has never been a Democrat before. When we met over dinner a couple of years ago I was so impressed by your intellect, your passion, and commitment to getting things done on behalf of the American people. For you to endorse a man who has spent almost 40 years in public office with very few accomplishments, doesn’t fall in line with what we previously thought of you. Hillary Clinton will be our party’s nominee and you standing on ceremony to support the sinking Bernie Sanders ship is disrespectful to Hillary Clinton. A woman who has spent the vast majority of her life in public service and working on behalf of women, families, and the underserved.
You have called both myself and Michael Kives before about helping your campaign raise money, we no longer trust your judgement so will not be raising money for your campaign.
Darnell Strom & Michael Kives
Won’t she be caucusing as a democrat?
All I can say is that Glenn Greenwald was face to face here in the states with Brian Stelter of CNN last Sunday and Glenn wasn’t arrested or held for questioning.
No reason to arrest Greenwald. They want Assange and Snowden.
Trump said he would kill Snowden.
Trump sez a lot of crazy stuff – but HRC actually is linked to deaths
THE CLINTON DEAD POOL
1- James McDougal – Clintons convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a key witness in Ken Starr’s investigation.
2 – Mary Mahoney – A former White House intern was murdered July 1997 at a Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown .. The murder …happened just after she was to go public w:th her story of sexual harassment in the White House.
3 – Vince Foster – Former White House counselor, and colleague of Hillary Clinton at Little Rock’s Rose Law firm. Died of a gunshot wound to the head, ruled a suicide.
4 – Ron Brown – Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the investigation reported that there was a hole in the top of Brown’s skull resembling a gunshot wound. At the time of his death Brown was being investigated, and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with prosecutors. The rest of the people on the plane also died. A few days later the Air Traffic controller commited suicide.
5 – C. Victor Raiser, II – Raiser, a major player in the Clinton fund raising organization died in a private plane crash in July 1992.
6 – Paul Tulley – Democratic National Committee Political Director found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock , September 1992. Described by Clinton as a “dear friend and trusted advisor”.
7 – Ed Willey – Clinton fundraiser, found dead November 1993 deep in the woods in VA of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Ed Willey died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed Bill Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Willey was involved in several Clinton fund raising events.
8 – Jerry Parks – Head of Clinton’s gubernatorial security team in Little Rock .. Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little Rock Park’s son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton He allegedly threatened to reveal this information. After he died the files were mysteriously removed from his house.
9 – James Bunch – Died from a gunshot suicide. It was reported that he had a “Black Book” of people which contained names of influential people who visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas
10 – James Wilson – Was found dead in May 1993 from an apparent hanging suicide. He was reported to have ties to Whitewater..
11 – Kathy Ferguson – Ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson, was found dead in May 1994, in her living room with a gunshot to her head. It was ruled a suicide even though there were several packed suitcases, as if she were going somewhere. Danny Ferguson was a co-defendant along with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit Kathy Ferguson was a possible corroborating witness for Paula Jones.
12 – Bill Shelton – Arkansas State Trooper and fiancee of Kathy Ferguson. Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiancee, he was found dead in June, 1994 of a gunshot wound also ruled a suicide at the grave site of his fiancee.
13 – Gandy Baugh – Attorney for Clinton’s friend Dan Lassater, died by jumping out a window of a tall building January, 1994. His client was a convicted drug distributor.
14 – Florence Martin – Accountant & sub-contractor for the CIA, was related to the Barry Seal, Mena, Arkansas, airport drug smuggling case. He died of three gunshot wounds.
15 – Suzanne Coleman – Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when he was Arkansas Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the back of the head, ruled a suicide. Was pregnant at the time of her death.
16 – Paula Grober – Clinton’s speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death December 9, 1992. She died in a one car accident.
17 – Danny Casolaro – Investigative reporter, investigating Mena Airport and Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparently, in the middle of his investigation.
18 – Paul Wilcher – Attorney investigating corruption at Mena Airport with Casolaro and the 1980 “October Surprise” was found dead on a toilet June 22, 1993, in his Washington DC apartment had delivered a report to Janet Reno 3 weeks before his death.
19 – Jon Parnell Walker – Whitewater investigator for Resolution Trust Corp. Jumped to his death from his Arlington ,Virginia apartment balcony August 15, 1993. He was investigating the Morgan Guaranty scandal.
20 – Barbara Wise – Commerce Department staffer. Worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang. Cause of death: Unknown. Died November 29, 1996. Her bruised, naked body was found locked in her office at the Department of Commerce.
21 – Charles Meissner – Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave John Huang special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane crash.
22 – Dr. Stanley Heard – Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a small plane crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton ‘s advisory council personally treated Clinton’s mother, stepfather and brother.
23 – Barry Seal – Drug running TWA pilot out of Mena Arkansas, death was no accident.
24 – Johnny Lawhorn, Jr. – Mechanic, found a check made out to Bill Clinton in the trunk of a car left at his repair shop. He was found dead after his car had hit a utility pole.
25 – Stanley Huggins – Investigated Madison Guaranty. His death was a purported suicide and his report was never released.
26 – Hershell Friday – Attorney and Clinton fundraiser died March 1, 1994, when his plane exploded.
27 – Kevin Ives & Don Henry – Known as “The boys on the track” case. Reports say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena Arkansas airport drug operation. A controversial case, the initial report of death said, due to falling asleep on railroad tracks. Later reports claim the 2 boys had been slain before being placed on the tracks. Many linked to the case died before their testimony could come before a Grand Jury.
THE FOLLOWING PERSONS HAD INFORMATION ON THE IVES/HENRY CASE:
28 – Keith Coney – Died when his motorcycle slammed into the back of a truck, 7/88.
29 – Keith McMaskle – Died, stabbed 113 times, Nov, 1988
30 – Gregory Collins – Died from a gunshot wound January 1989.
31 – Jeff Rhodes – He was shot, mutilated and found burned in a trash dump in April 1989.
32 – James Milan – Found decapitated. However, the Coroner ruled his death was due to natural causes”.
34 – Richard Winters – A suspect in the Ives/Henry deaths. He was killed in a set-up robbery July 1989.
THE FOLLOWING CLINTON BODYGUARDS ARE ALSO DEAD
35 – Major William S. Barkley, Jr.
36 – Captain Scott J . Reynolds
37 – Sgt. Brian Hanley
38 – Sgt. Tim Sabel
39 – Major General William Robertson
40 – Col. William Densberger
41 – Col. Robert Kelly
42 – Spec. Gary Rhodes
43 – Steve Willis
44 – Robert Williams
45 – Conway LeBleu
46 – Todd McKeehan
Seth Rich, the DC staffer murdered and “robbed” (of nothing) on July 10. Wikileaks founder ) – Assange claims he had info on the DNC email scandal.
Shawn Lucas (38), of One Source Process, served a lawsuit at the Democratic National Committee headquarters in Washington, D.C. The lawsuit was filed on behalf of Senator Bernie Sanders’ supporters and named the DNC and its then Chair, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, as defendants. It leveled the following serious charges: fraud, negligent misrepresentation, deceptive conduct, unjust enrichment, breach of fiduciary duty, and negligence was found dead on his bathroom floor on August 2.
This is frankly lunatic.
Probably cut and pasted from infowars.
Kind of exactly reminds one of the witness pool for the Kennedy assassination. The only thing longer was he list of bogus conclusions. As I recal FBI was involved in part of that as well. But it ‘s not the first time there has been a government shut down – on information – Lunatic maybe the description you choose to use – straight up law of averages and percentages out of kilter speak to the same conclusion. Question is whose the lunatic for asking and whose the lunatic for doubting those asking? Those questions have been asked for three decades and the bodies keep piling up. The situations keep piling up but never an answer. the burning of children and babies at Waco and the falsification of charges on automatic weapons the same. I saw those photos of the display in the court room. That court needed expert fourth branch people. Then there is Tonkin Gulf resolution. And never an answer. I’ll keep my sanity but I won’t waste it on an untrustworthy government.
My point is Glenn has never said once that anything he has published at the Intercept would lead to criminal charges because people read what he published.
So if you assume that he is a legitimate journalist then the content he has published is “open” for the public’s consumption.
What CC is arguing is that the material WikiLeaks posted is content of a criminal provenance.
That falls neatly into CNN’s insistence without any factual backup, that it’s all Russian involvement.
Works if you are afraid and haven’t gotten out of the old Red Scare mentality.
The embargo on consuming the leaks may be enforceable with the US military but civilians don’t need to adhere to the threat.
Have we seen the Clinton News Network remind people when they broadcast a report of a crime that it is illegal to commit that crime–such as a burglary? This was a planned measure to wipe the hard drives of the viewers and to wipe or deflect any criticism of the Clintons.
This shows that CNN in its dubious support of the Clintons they have now stepped beyond just biased reporting and entered the realm of controlling citizens at the behest of politicians and government. The melding of these two is a step in the direction of having the media controlled by politicians and worse government.
The Clintons sew the seeds that will become the banana republic for which they stand.
Reblogged this on Matthews' Blog.