Bizarre, Constitutional Law, Politics, Religion, Society

Woman Flogged In Indonesia For Being Present

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We have yet another example of the brutality of Islamic Sharia law from Indonesia where a woman was savagely flogged publicly for spending time with a man who was not her husband, including an allegation of sex outside of marriage.  The flogging occurred in Banda Aceh on the Island of Sumatra.

The woman was flogged 26 times as people watched the medieval scene unfold.  The man may also have been flogged.  Islamic justice imposes such floggings for a variety of offenses including gambling, and drinking alcohol.

The imposition of such punishment in the name of Islamic justice defies not only basic principles of due process and equal protection but religious freedoms.  Obviously, these areas reject such legal notions as Western values.  They are however human rights that should not denied to any person in any country.  There is a tendency to adopt a legal and moral relativism over such abuses — dismissing the issue as purely a matter of local or national determination.  Some basic rights must transcend national borders as based not on any given government but the very essence of being human.

106 thoughts on “Woman Flogged In Indonesia For Being Present”

    1. Indonesia’s homicide rate is 0.5 per 100,000, about 1/10th that of the United States. They seem adequately non-lethal over there.

      1. In 2016, there were 1274 Islamic attacks in 50 countries, in which 11774 people were killed and 14303 injured. “Kooky” and Lethal” modify “religions,” not “primitive cultures,” though a lot of them are lethal and kooky, too.

        1. Come again? Islam can be used for political mobilization, and has features that, ceteris paribus, make it more utile as an agent of mobilization than are Christianity or Buddhism. However, that’s usually remote from mundane life. The article is discribing a sentence carried out for a common crime, not a political event or spectacle.

          not “primitive cultures,”

          Indonesia’s per capita product is similar to that of the United States around about 1929 and the life expectancy at birth there is that of the United States around about 1955. About 95% of the adult population is literate and north of 99% of youths between 15 and 25 are. The country has a functioning set of electoral institutions, and satisfactory levels of public debate. As noted, it is passably free of the worst sort of violent crime.

          No clue how you got the idea into your head that the sort of world in which my father came of age in is a ‘primitive culture” like, er, the mbuti pygmy.

          1. Indonesia? Where blaspheming Islam gets you five years in the slammer? Not big on peaceful protests either? And the caning for standing too close to your boyfriend? Were you pulling my leg?

      2. “They seem adequately non-lethal over there.”

        The keywords being “over there.” Again as Schulte routinely remarks; their country, their laws. They get to decide what “civil society” means to them. It took western civilization until the enlightenment era to redefine what it means to us.

        Your comment instantly made me consider what the homicide rate was in a nest of vipers. I would no more want to climb into that “culture” as I would want to invite them into ours. That led me to the following fable:

        “Aesop For Children

        A Farmer walked through his field one cold winter morning. On the ground lay a Snake, stiff and frozen with the cold. The Farmer knew how deadly the Snake could be, and yet he picked it up and put it in his bosom to warm it back to life.

        The Snake soon revived, and when it had enough strength, bit the man who had been so kind to it. The bite was deadly and the Farmer felt that he must die. As he drew his last breath, he said to those standing around:

        Moral

        Learn from my fate not to take pity on a scoundrel.”

        1. It’s not a nest of vipers. The country was born of an insurgency which ran from Aug. of 1945 to November 1949, had a gruesome outbreak of political violence between Nov. 1965 and April. 1967 an it had a 23 year long misbegotten attempt to suppress an insurgency in East Timor (a province comprehending < 1% of its population). It's otherwise an unremarkable 3d world country with provisional constitutional institutions, a modest prosperity, and low homicide rates.

          1. Too subtle? Allow me to be more clear.

            A culture that is designed to live under Sharia Law (theocracy) is incompatible with a culture designed to live under any other form of law. An alien in their culture does not fully assimilate, they would have no more security of their natural right to life, liberty or property than a sheep would have going to live among wolves. However if an alien from their culture is invited into ours without any requirement to assimilate, then we sheep are merely asking the wolf to become something it cannot be.

            1. Too subtle?

              No, I quoted precisely what you said, verbatim and in context.

              A culture that is designed to live under Sharia Law (theocracy) is incompatible with a culture designed to live under any other form of law.

              Cultures are not ‘designed’. They emerge and evolve, to some degree congruent with and to some degree in counterpoint to fixed texts like the Sharia.

              I think Saudi Arabia’s body of law is summarized by or harmonized with the Sharia. I don’t think that’s the case with other Muslim countries (which is one reason they have Islamist movements – the law codes have alternative inspirations).

              Iran is the only muslim country which has theocratic bodies incorporated into it’s political architecture.

              Indonesia’s religious culture is quite variegated, and off Sumatra laxity and syncretism are quite unremarkable.

              Strange as it may seem to you, there are countries (e.g. Israel and India) which cope with Muslim minorities a good deal larger than those normal in Europe. Its a reasonable inference that’s because their political class is not given to siding with exotic elements against the mundane working class (an impulse that appears to be nearly university among occidental elites).

              1. “Cultures are not ‘designed’. They emerge and evolve, to some degree congruent with and to some degree in counterpoint to fixed texts like the Sharia.”

                I disagree completely. They may not turn out AS designed but they certainly have designers. Our founding fathers had a design: “in order to form a more perfect union…” Obama’s fundamental transformation. The Great Society. The New Deal, and so on. These are all designs or visions for cultural transformation. Abraham Lincoln wrote specifically about this in his “Fragment on the Constitution and Union”:

                “All this is not the result of accident. It has a philosophical cause. Without the Constitution and the Union, we could not have attained the result; but even these, are not the primary cause of our great prosperity. There is something back of these, entwining itself more closely about the human heart. That something, is the principle of “Liberty to all”—the principle that clears the path for all—gives hope to all—and, by consequence, enterprise, and industry to all.

                The expression of that principle, in our Declaration of Independence, was most happy, and fortunate. Without this, as well as with it, we could have declared our independence of Great Britain; but without it, we could not, I think, have secured our free government, and consequent prosperity. No oppressed, people will fight, and endure, as our fathers did, without the promise of something better, than a mere change of masters.

                The assertion of that principle, at that time, was the word, “fitly spoken” which has proved an “apple of gold” to us. The Union, and the Constitution, are the picture of silver, subsequently framed around it. The picture was made, not to conceal, or destroy the apple; but to adorn, and preserve it. The picture was made for the apple—not the apple for the picture.

                So let us act, that neither picture, or apple shall ever be blurred, or bruised or broken. That we may so act, we must study, and understand the points of danger.”

              2. BTW, Israel “copes” by design. It’s not by some arbitrary means they happen to still exist as a state.

    2. All those Muslim doctors at the Cleveland Clinic are kooks? Do you use a religious litmus test to chose a doc?

  3. I sure hope the ill informed and ignorant people who think Sharia would be so great in the US get to see these posts of the way people – espeicailly women are treated under this kind of “law” (if you’d like to call it that). This is moe than horrific. Hey Madonna — are you paying attention????

      1. You did not like that,eh? That is because you are a member of the Turley blog cabal of Islamophonics.

    2. anon, you don’t know what you are talking about by using left handed tactics. Name calling doesn’t work anymore. At least not on the informed.

      Would the court be the leftist 9th Circuit? The most overturned court in the USA on it’s level? The ones that ignored what US law says about the prez having the ability to do what Trump did with his 7 country pause, instead imposing jive & gibberish [their own ideas] in place of what US LAW ITSELF says? That court? The so called judge in Washington State did the same thing. Trump was struck down based on circumvention of the law. None of the so called judges bothered to read the law & show that Trump was outside of it.

      Bush & Obama did basically the same thing as Trump in their terms. Where were the riots? Was Soros broke back then?

      If you like Islam so much, move to a country where you can practice that crap to your heart’s desire. We do NOT want that stuff here. We do not want to be France, Germany, Switzerland or any other country where ISIS infiltrated refugees have snuck in & are now raising hell & raping & rioting.

      SamFox

      1. anon, here is what took place in the so called courts–

        https://www.patriotpost.com/opinion/47335

        Call me all the names you want. All you do is show you are a Rules For Radicals activist. Can you show me where either of the two courts commented on the law that Mr. T is behind?

        Speaking of RFR, what we are seeing is Rules For Radicals # 4 being thrown in our face.

        I dunno, why don’t we just do as Japan & other nations regarding Islam & Muslims…

        frontpagemag.com/fpm/263266/nations-seeking-ban-islam-keep-growing-raymond-ibrahim

        https://www.onenewsnow.com/perspectives/bryan-fischer/2016/01/04/japan-no-muslims-no-terrorists

        SamFox

  5. Gloria Steinem, Madeleine Albright, et al vowed to convert to Islam if Trump’s EO is allowed. If for no other reason I hope the EO passes muster than to see that. But, of course, like most leftists, they are just talking out of their ample asses. Because if leftists were honest, most of Hollywood would be living in Canada by now.

    1. Right On. Maybe Hollywood should be part of Canada.
      That friggin Trudeau guy wants to let all the terrorists in.
      Is he related to the guy who wrote Doonesbury?

    1. “They took the hatred out of me,” he says, tears welling up in his eyes. “I never knew how badly somebody could hate someone they don’t even know.”

      Imagine that, someone stopped hating someone once they got to know them. That required a story in the HuffPo? Of course this story is intended to paint with a very BROAD brush anyone that is opposed to flinging open our gates to everyone that wants to get within our borders as Islamophobic or haters or racists, etc. There are plenty of people of all stripes that hate out of sheer ignorance. But do not make the same ignorant mistake of believing YOU know what motivates citizens of this country to DEMAND their government secure the rights of OUR citizens first before tending to the “needs” of non-citizens abroad.

      When should we expect HuffPo to do a story on the rape culture sweeping Europe and putting Sweden in that #1 spot?

    3. In case anyone is confused, if going by what I’ve read on Professor Turley’s comment threads I had to pick to wrench on my transmission, I’d pick Squeeky.

      Sincerely, Steve of Obama’s 57 states, who has worked on transmissions which oddly enough survived the experience particularly Chrysler because if you can survive a 440 Magnum you can survive anything including me and will be selling my shop manual for the 1976 International Scout along with THE BOOK on the Turbo-Hydro 350 on ebay if Half Price Books doesn’t make me a good offer.

      Amen.

    2. Kick he’s ass love’n it. Gen Chao Chicken! Notice how they don’t mess with the Chinese even in Europe. No 9th circuit there just short circuit.

    1. Hey Isaac get yourself a Kaftan and back to BC this law is for you. Hahahahaha

  10. It seems those in the west who were blindly supporting the free Aceh movement should be questioning the solution they were clamoring for.

  11. Just boycott Crate and Barrel.
    Look at the labels folks.
    I don’t buy Haribo Gummi bears that are made in Turkey.
    BDS requires very little effort and can eventually make a difference.

    1. Roscoe – for a great laugh, please look up the reviews of Haribo Sugar Free Gummy bears on Amazon. Apparently they use an alcohol sugar that is undigestible by the human body. Hilarity ensures. From a date gone horribly, terribly wrong, to an entire work site down to one port-a-potty, it’s worth 15 minutes of your life to read. Now that you mention they are made in Turkey, it all makes sense. Clearly they are using biological warfare against us.

      1. Yes mam! That’s how I found out they were made in Turkey. I used to eat the German made ones and then exactly as you described “Everyone Out The Rear Exit” happened. I knew something was wrong and that’s when I looked at the label to see what the hell was up and discovered they were made in Turkey.
        More like Bowel Warfare.

  12. Things are changing in Indonesia-it was known as a fairly laid-back (re religion) moderate Muslim country when Barry Obama lived there. It was secular nationalist (kind of like Nasserite Egypt) during the Sukarno Years of Living Dangerously and during the military rule that followed.

    The left (which has become insane) apparently wants to import fundamentalist Muslim practices to the West. What do they expect to happen when countries like Sweden, Germany and France become majority or near majority Muslim? They must assume the MENA Muslims who come to Europe will be seduced by its post-Christian secular hedonism. It did happen to the Albanians, but there is no guarantee it will happen again to a much larger cohort from radically different cultural origins.

    1. “Things are changing in Indonesia-it was known as a fairly laid-back (re religion) moderate Muslim country when Barry Obama lived there…”

      No, things aren’t changing, passive voice.

      Someone is changing things, active voice.

      It’s not like the f***ing weather. I’ve detailed the progression and if you haven’t been paying attention you deserve what you’re going to get.

    2. Things are changing in Indonesia-it was known as a fairly laid-back (re religion) moderate Muslim country when Barry Obama lived there. I

      No, Sumatra has long had a different religious culture than Java.

  13. You can’t condemn the barbaric, savage, barbaric and inhumane practices, dictated and demanded by Islamic law and followed, stridently, by Muslim adherents, and, simultaneously, demand that this country allow more of these throwbacks through the gate. That is, of course, unless you want this insanity transpiring around you and your loved ones. You won’t be able to escape it. So, you have a choice to make. Which is it? Do you want this brought to a city or town near you, where Muslims, as they normally do, demand the right to live and worship, as they please, OR, do you want to limit the numbers of these lunatics, who refuse to modify their rules and laws to coincide with the practices of the civilized world? You can’t have both. Islam will never modify its rules–ever. It’s an either or proposition. Islamic law is not compatible with a civilized society, so, take your pick. Shut the gates to these inbred fools or fling the doors open and let the mayhem commence?

    2. What about the Christian fundamentalist religious extremists who have committed more murders in the US than Muslim extremists have? What should we do to prevent them from committing mass murders driven by their religious beliefs?

      1. ” What should we do to prevent them from committing mass murders driven by their religious beliefs?”
        ~+~

        Apply the law. That is what is done in this country.

        In Banda Aceh it is the law that is the brutality.

      2. “What about the Christian fundamentalist religious extremists who have committed more murders in the US than Muslim extremists have?”

        Perhaps make it your mission to educate people about it. That’s what JT does. So a good place to start is providing your source for that claim.

      4. Christian fundies? Really?
        Do you mean like the Columbine high school killers???
        They were atheists. One of them had their atheist belief of ‘Natural Selection’ on their t-shirt during the killing spree.

      5. How Pathetic, just Pathetic Doglover. By any accounting, even your very, very distorted claim, how do you exceed the thousands killed in 9/11? Every one a murder and the toll has not ended given those who worked the crimes scene an and are dying from related cancers. Explain again how Christians have committed more murders than Muslim extremists.

      6. Another voice heard from the school of atheism that insists “They all want to stone adulteresses and we can’t read real good too.”

        You atheists are doing just swell.

      8. Doglover, citations please. Where does the New Covenant/Testament call for such behavior? I just finished reading it last month, started again after that. I have NEVER seen ONE call for Christians to ‘kill infidels’, do mass murders or any such activity.

        I have a hunch that those you are thinking of are labeled ‘Christian’ when they are really something else. The lib left prog HillarySuperPAC media ‘reporters’ do like to lie. So do their icons. HRC & BHO are prime examples…

        SamFox

  14. And the point of this article is . . . ? Is it let’s do what we can to increase Muslim immigration in the USA because immigration is the very foundation of America’s great success, so that Muslim culture can pervade the entire USA and so that Sharia Law can ultimately be established here?

    It’s time for JT to stop focusing on US Constitutional Law, which is becoming increasingly irrelevant today under the Leftist Establishment Elite’s directives, despite President Trump’s efforts to counter this trend and to start studying up on Sharia Law. I’m sure it won’t be too hard to master once he has the basic Islamic concepts down pat.

  15. And the moral to this story is…what, if you like your law you can keep your law? You have to pass the law to find out what’s in it?

  16. Here’s to all those that reach across relevant issues to bolster their arguments. What these neanderthals are doing in their countries have little if anything to do with the US, yet there are similarities. In the US women are beaten mercilessly and raped on a regular basis. Children are abused through neglect and perversion. We absorb these travesties under the name of freedoms from having the government intrude into our personal affairs. Many Americans truly believe that when a woman is raped, she was asking for it. We arm idiots to the teeth based on some perverse reading of words written centuries ago. People die. People suffer. The origin of that disgusting practice of flogging women and men who cavort outside of marriage may very well have been to stop worse vengeful acts by husbands of wives who cavort. Most religious doctrine originated to govern and control forces of nature and mistakes in nature. Islam is a much newer and inherently immature religion. The forces of Islam are relevant to people who are less civilized and less evolved. These facts are evident. In societies where common sense and law have not evolved to work together, this is what you get. In any society that tears itself apart, you get similar sorts of conditions: martial law, dictatorships, fascism, etc. We evolve from extremes that are countered with extremes, to reason and common sense. Take a look outside these here United States and you will see the world evolving away from the laws of religions towards the laws of common sense and justice. Unless, of course, you want to do a DDT and exaggerate, lie, and confound in order to rally round the leader while we are under attack. It is the oldest power play in the book and Americans seem to fall for it again and again: Reagan, Bush, and now DDT.

  17. >”The imposition of such punishment in the name of Islamic justice defies not only basic principles of due process and equal protection but religious freedoms. ”

    I must have missed something.
    Where does the story say there was no due process?
    Where do you find there bwas no equality in justice, since you seem not even to know if the man was punished?
    Where do religious freedoms come into the picture? If these people are voluntary muslem (no indication of the contrary) they are being served with the standards they choose. If not, they could even emigrate to any other part of Indonesia since only the island of Atjeh observes sharia.
    RHS

    1. “Where do religious freedoms come into the picture? If these people are voluntary muslem (no indication of the contrary) they are being served with the standards they choose. ”

      It is possible the defendant was a hypocrite and believed in precisely the same religious principles held by the tribunal that imposed the penalty, but acted as she did despite that belief. In that case there would be no violation of the defendants religious freedom.

      On the other hand, the defendant might have believed her actions were entirely consistent with her view of the principles of Islam and Sharia law. In that case the penalty would have been a violation of her religious freedom.

      It seems to me that to claim no religious freedoms were violated one has to argue the state of mind of the defendant, not the state of law in Sumatra.

  18. Did Prof Turkey actually write, “The imposition of such punishment in the name of Islamic justice defies not only basic principles of due process and equal protection but religious freedoms”?

    No, Professor Turley, none of those principles are violated if your culture and civilisation doesn’t have any of the principles!

    Sigh. And yet I sometimes still wonder why this guy is afraid to go after the sacred cow of having too many GD law schools?

    2. WARSITE –

      It always strikes me as odd that JT will write about these kinds of things in other countries, but doesn’t call out our own government for seemingly condoning it. If a country has natural resources that the 1% covet, the Mighty Wurlitzer will crank out all manner of propaganda against said country’s alleged or actual evil leader to justify an invasion, assassination or coup d’etat – so don’t tell me there’s nothing our government can’t do to address/redress moral outrages such as the one in this article, Why the silence, JT?

    3. “No, Professor Turley, none of those principles are violated if your culture and civilisation doesn’t have any of the principles! ”

      I don’t think I could agree with that. It seems to me that principles exist much like mathematical truths. They are independent of whether we agree with them. Indeed, they are independent of whether we perceive them or understand them.

      The fact the culture does not have such principles only implies that culture has not recognized or implemented the principles.

      Whether a court recognizes the legal power of a principle is irrelevant to the existence of the principle. The fact that we can discuss the principle at all demonstrates its existence and the possibility that the principle can be violated.

  19. This is why God made rifles. They are available in that so called nation state. Her brother should shoot the Mufti, the whipper, the judge, the jury, and the local powers that be. Also, put this pirate territory on the Trump list and bar entry to anyone in religious power or government power. Move the UN to Europe so we don’t get any more Islamic terrorist diplomats.

    1. Well, it’s actually why God created Eliphalet Remington.

      But whatever you do, don’t forget to remember that Christians are just s bad. Deep down we’d want to do this.Because, Islam! And Islamophobia. So there.

      1. Steve57, Christians are just as bad? Really showing your lack of knowledge eh? Where does the New Testament call for honor killings?

        Are Christians in the USA doing what this video shows going on in France? Are groups of Christians doing the rape thing like Muslims in Germany? Dem lib ‘progressives’ are doing like the Muslims in France because they are all booty hurt that the Queen of Corruption didn’t get elected. .

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8AnJgSEvFI

        When was the last time you heard of a ‘Christian honor killing’? I suppose it’s OK that Muslim ‘honor’ killings are on the rise in the US because ‘it’s just a part of their religion’.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8AnJgSEvFI

        Calling names is sooo passé. Been so over done no one pays attention to the distraction tactic.

        SamFox

        2. Sam – I think Steve was being sarcastic in reference to the moral relativism defense. He didn’t mean it.

          1. Steve & Karen, Oh. Steve, you didn’t qualify your post, so it was easy to misread. No offence was meant. Karen, thank you for the heads up. 🙂

            Here is one that most people don’t know. Look up

            The ISIS Passport Industry

            ISIS fake passports make it even harder than it is now to vet people from 0bama’s, now Mr. T’s, 7 countries. Or any other ME country. 0bama’s own agencies said it was impossible or very nearly so, to vet these people.

            Once enough people know what is really going on regarding the threat Islam & many Muslims pose to US & the rest of the planet, maybe some rationality will come forward & be recognized. Yeah, I know, wishful thinking…especially for those who are doing the over throw the USA thing will wake up. One attack front is laid out in the book Strategy, by Cloward & Pivon. Rules For Radicals outlines other ways to attack the USA.
            ‘
            Rules For Radicals #4, Make the enemy live up to it’s own book of rules’ is being used. In this particular case, the Constitution.

            http://www.steelonsteel.com/saul-alinskys-12-rules-for-radicals/

            Trump is 100% correct. I’d like to see Islam banned or treated like Japan & a few other countries do in that regard. Taking them in is playing Russian roulette with US citizens. Islam is a violent deadly ideology, not really a religion. It’s only a religion in the sense that man caused global warming is.

            Hmm, as an aside, I wonder how Madonna & Ashley Judd would like trailing behind a man after being forced to wear a burka. How they would like to be under Sharia. Tacitly, that is what they & Muslim supporters are asking for.

            SamFox

  20. Love the moral ambiguity of the Pinkos – scream about Trump, but ignore these outrages.

    Suggest that some of these brave liberal crusaders don vagina outfits and march in Sumatra.

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