The United Arab Emirates have supplied the most recent example of the Sharia legal system in the Muslim world. South African Emlyn Culverwell‚ 29, and his Ukrainian fiancée Iryna Nohai, 27, were arrested after Nohai wemt to the doctor over stomach pains. In the UAE doctors appear to have no notion of confidentiality (or humanity) and informed the police when he discovered that she was pregnant. Since she had not yet married Culverwell, that meant that they had violated the Islamic code against sex outside of marriage — even though the impregnation occurred outside of the UAE. They are criminally charged.
So this is a couple about to get married who simply went to the UAE for a vacation and visited a doctor. They are now under arrest and they have been held since January.
Another moral victory for Sharia law.
UAE leaves off the Sharia part in its push for tourists. They can change their pitch to “UAE: come for the shopping, stay for the flogging.”
Tourist have got to be careful when vacationing in insane countries.
Remember a couple decades ago those tourist from Australia vacationing in Malaysia got the death penality for getting caught with illegal drugs?
Yes the pregnancy happened in South Africa, but the unmarried couple are vacationing together in UAE. It would not be unreasonable for the UAE to assume that they are also having sexual relations in their country. Why would a couple choose to vacation in a country where they know that their romantic arrangements are illegal? Perhaps they should have waited for after the wedding to visit there. Assuming that they actually do intend to marry. An awful lot of folks these days refer to the person they are cohabiting with as a fiance or fiancee when they have no actual or definite plan to marry. Travelers do have a responsibility to obey the laws of the countries they visit, whether or not they agree with those laws. In this case, those laws and the possible consequences of violating them are pretty well known. Travel agents should also have some responsibility to remind unmarried couples that they are behaving in an illegal manner when they book their trips.
That’s true. Travelers can make mistakes like that and need to be savvy.
I remember I was traveling alone to a foreign country once and stepped out of my hotel to go sightseeing. I was going to meet up with some friends the next day. It was so strange, but I kept hearing this insect like buzzing sound following me around, it was everywhere, and there was this odd vibe from people. A very kind local explained to me that women do not wear shorts in that party of the country. My showing my legs like that was getting their version of wolf whistles, and was considered an invitation to be followed. And he warned me about going to a particular beach. So, I hightailed it back and changed. I had learned about the uninhabited area I was traveling to, but not much about the local customs, since I was barely going to be in any villages or towns. I learned a lesson about being more prepared when traveling to a foreign country. It is not the same at all as the US, but we may subconsciously assume that the same standard of law and fairness applies. It doesn’t.
The South African media says he has lived in the UAE since 2011 or thereabouts and is employed by some sort of resort.. It’s vaguer about what her situation is. Evidently the Ukrainian government is working on their behalf. An incident with a pair of tourists in 2008 was resolved by deporting the couple, but apparently the magistrate in this case has denied their request to marry in prison and denied them bail.
There goes the theory that the illicit impregnation occurred outside jurisdiction of the UAE, which triggered some nonsensical comment about the UAE lacking jurisdiction, as if these throwbacks abide by any sense of propriety or decency. If the baby daddy has been living in the country since 2011, there’s a good chance that “the act of impregnating” the partner occurred in the UAE, unless this is one of the longest human pregnancies on record, dating back to 2011.
There goes the theory that the illicit impregnation occurred outside jurisdiction of the UAE,
The source of that is Prof. Turley’s gloss (which he derived from media reports):
So this is a couple about to get married who simply went to the UAE for a vacation and visited a doctor. They are now under arrest and they have been held since January.
well whoops. They ARE in a pickle.
”The South African media says he has lived in the UAE since 2011 or thereabouts and is employed by some sort of resort..”
Must say it took a while for that to out…. not vacationing.
Regardless, if they are not citizens then expel them from the country.
well I agree, however what I think is of no matter. IF I can trust what I read somewhere in this thread, the magistrate on the case is not amenable. And again, from what I read, they are in jail in the UAE. No bail.
Maybe if the man is there on a work visa that it comes with conditions far more restrictive (and consequential) than a tourist visa.
You know, the Saudi’s time of plenty is numbered.
They collapsed many of their deep aquifers trying to grow wheat in circular fields in the desert. Those aquifers took many thousands of years to fill. They will not be recharged, if at all, for many thousands of years more. They’ve also exhausted their scarce water resources running dairy farms. The thought has always been, oh well, we can always buy water. And they do. When they buy alfalfa hay for their cows and goats, that’s in a sense buying water from countries like the US. We used our water to grow that hay. They buy water when they buy crops or other foodstuffs grown outside their country. They are in essence completely dependent on the water found outside their borders.
And the money is going to run out. The oil is finite, and alternative energy will eventually replace this finite resource. It might not be in our generation, but it will happen. It has to. Oil and gas is not infinite. Eventually, it will be gone. We’ve already expanded our portfolio to lean more towards domestic and Canadian production. We’re down to about 31% of our oil from OPEC.
When the money is gone, where will Saudi Arabia be? How will it get the water to feed its people? Its royal family will promptly fall, the Imams will wrest the remaining control, and it will be Afghanistan. It will go back to how it was before the House of Saud.
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6
Per capita product outside the oil sector is about $13,000 per year, or similar to certain Latin American countries, as well as Tunisia (the most affluent Arab country without oil). as well as to the United States just before the war. At current production rates, it will take about 75 years to exhaust their proven reserves.
Why in the world did they go to the UAE?
Ask desperatelyseekingabrain why. She’ll tell you that the homicide rate is low and that the mullahs abide by strict rules which adheres to jurisdictional requirements, which all make for the perfect place to travel.
Rules which adhere, not adheres.
Reading comprehension. It’s great stuff and what you don’t have.
Good for the UAE! I wish we had laws like that here, because that would end a lot of the crime and violence in the country. Give the couple the “Shotgun Marriage” option to avoid jail time.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
They’re already engaged and the act in question occurred in South Africa.
It’s interesting how the Kardashians, the whole vulgar and repulsive gang, travelled throughout this supposedly religious area of the world a year or so ago, with cameras rolling. They were greeted as rockstarsx yet most, if not all, of their kids, in tow, we’re conceived outside the confines of marriage, yet the Kardashians are revered and admired there.
That is interesting. I don’t make myself aware of what the extended Kardashians do, but I assume none of the women at the time of their tour were unmarried AND pregnant. Tho it is fun to speculate if the Horribles in that part of the world would have arrested them. Any of them. For anything…
Charged and held since January for a Sharia crime committed outside the UAE. I assume they passed through customs, so apparently their Sharia Law does not prevent unmarried men and women to enter their country for vacations. I assume they were allowed to get a hotel room together and sleep in the same bed. Is all of that acceptable according to Sharia Law?
Unless the UAE intends to enforce every aspect of Sharia Law on everyone that enters or lives in that country, they will determine the worst punishment this couple should have is to require them to leave the country. Anything worse and they will find themselves holding the $hitty end of the stick with non-Sharia compliant countries banning travel to the UAE.
I guess what happened in Vegas didn’t stay in Vegas.
Keep repeating:
It’s just a tiny fraction of the Muslims who are crazy extremists. It’s just a tiny fraction of the Muslims who are crazy extremists. It’s just a tiny fraction of the Muslims who are crazy extremists.
Then you’ll be wrong three times.
How exactly is this observation at all relevant to the situation described?
dss:
It’s relevant because it is yet another example of the delusion we suffer from that insists mixing totalitarian cultures with our own will somehow work its way into to a multicultural wonderland. It also points out that Muslim antagonism to Western values is a lot more well-subscribed that our masters let on. Our stubborn attempts to internalize Wahhabist attitudes and culture only insures we bstardize our own. History yields precious few examples of synthesizing diametrically polarized cultures. Heap in some mayhem-justifying religion with a doggedly loyal group of followers and you have the cultural witch’s brew currently percolating in Western Europe. We don’t need that kind of take out.
Mespo, the term ‘totalitarian’ was never intended to describe any country which remotely resembles the UAE. The UAE isn’t Nazi Germany. It’s a moderately pluralistic authoritarian state with some strange customs and a certain amount of legal-bureaucratic nonsense (the nonsense rather injurious to the couple in question).
No one is attempting to ‘internalize’ ‘Wahhabist’ attitudes bar Saudi Arabia and a few other loci (there are a half-dozen interpretive schools within Islam, of which the Wahhabi is but one).
Good post mespo.
In these polarized and dysfunctional times, here in the US of A, it is always good to hear from an even more fu*^ked up place. On the other hand you don’t go into a bar in Podunk Miss. and criticize DDT. You don’t go to North Korea. If you do go to any of these batsh*t places then perhaps you take what you get. Thanks for making us feel better about ourselves Turley.
On the other hand you don’t go into a bar in Podunk Miss. and criticize DDT.
Wow, bigot much?
Homicide rate? You are quoting some, supposed, homicide rate, in a place like the UAE, to prove the safety of such a locale? Too funny. New flash– it’s not just the homicide rate that dictates whether a particular country is suitable or not for travel. Make a note of that the next time that you travel. The article, at hand, proves that. Madmen don’t always murder you–they can lock you up and throw away the key for some imagined wrong. It’s interesting how you jump, instinctively, to believe certain, alleged statistics, while, simultaneously, dismissing others as bogus.
I’ll state the obvious, or, should I say, what is obvious to most? In order to have a “homicide rate” there must be a standard definition as to what is considered a homicide, don’t you think? There must also be reports made of those alleged homicides. The lack of a standard definition, coupled with spotty or inconsistent reportings, will skew any statistics. Do you actually believe that honor killings, common in the Muslim world, are considered homicides in that neck of the woods? If not, expect those little occurrences, condoned by adherents to Islam, to fly under the radar and never get reported and/or counted as homicides. Might those murders skew your overly generous statistics, just a tad? I’m sure that those deaths escaped your purported homicide statistic in the fabulous UAE. I’m also quite sure that the hangings and stonings, meted out to those who have transgressed the dictates of Islam, which occur in the town square, are not a part of the reported homicide rate, as well.
While you mention that the “wrong” occurred outside of the country–assuming that you mean the pregnancy–and that there is no jurisdiction, remember, this couple, travelling and sleeping together in the same room, in a country strictly enforcing Sharia law, is violating numerous rules and restrictions of Islam while on UAE soil. Any backward and primitive place, like the UAE, which adheres to Sharia law, is not going to concern itself with fantastical concepts such as jurisdiction. Get real.
When you don’t have the facts, pound the table….
Done it myself a few times. Lost.
No pounding of the table. Just pointing out the fallacy of your weak and irrelevant argument about the homicide rate in the UAE allegedly being low and how that translates into a particular country being safe for travel. Tell your farfetched notion to the unmarried couple vacationing there and sitting in prison. I’m sure that they will find comfort in the irrelevant factoid that there aren’t many murders on the streets in the UAE. You can also calm their nerves by claiming a delusional jurisdictional argument that you will unleash on the Islamic court. Bet the mullahs will be holding their breath over that one.
The saiient datum is the homicide rate. You’ve arbitrariliy declared it ‘weak and irrelevant’ because it contraditcts your worldview. I’m sorry you;re dumb and obnoxious, but it really is not my doing.
You really are mental. Unfortunate.
No, I’m a normal person dealing with someone who is being stupid because his sense of self depends on it.
The Department of Justice attempted to quantify the number of honor killings in the United States and commissioned a report from a firm called Westat. Westat says, in a population of 3,000,000 American muslims, there might be about 25 honor killings a year. The United Nations has been floating round a figure of 5,000 per year in a global population of 1.6 bn Muslims. Even if they go completely unrecorded in the UAE, were they as common there as elsewhere you’d at somewhere between 20 and 60 homicides to the annual total in the UAE. As is, the U.S. State Department describes honor killings as ‘uncommon’ in the UAE, and people who commit them are put on trial.
https://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/2002/18291.htm
Perhaps if you were capable of reading and comprehending the article at hand, you would be able to discern that the issue, faced by this couple, doesn’t revolve around the homicide rate in the UAE. Their predicament has no connection, whatsoever, with the purported homicide rate in that country. In fact, not once was the topic of homicide rate raised in the article. The country, by its very system of laws, is unsafe for travelers. That’s what a rational, intelligent and sane person would glean from the story. I understand. That doesn’t include you.
As usual, you go off on some unrelated and irrelevant tangent, about the homicide rate in the UAE, which has no bearing on the situation, including some bizarre notion that the mullahs give an f about your delusional jurisdictional argument.
Perhaps if you were capable of reading and comprehending the article at hand, you would be able to discern that the issue, faced by this couple, doesn’t revolve around the homicide rate in the UAE.
My reference to the homicide rate was in response to your blather about how we cannot ‘civilize’ ‘seventh century madmen’. SInce I directly quoted you, there isn’t much excuse for misunderstanding on your part.
The country is adequately civilized, if problematic in certain respects.
The term “civilized” does not necessarily translate as the homicide rate. Yes, the country is uncivikized, despite the gleaming skyscrapers and the oilbmoney. Get a grip. You are imagining things.
Should have been uncivilized and oil money. On my new phone.
The term “civilized” does not necessarily translate as the homicide rate.
The first duty of a government is to govern. It’s a highly urbanized population and a highly literate population as well. What they lack is your approval, but that isn’t worth anything.
By your definition, the US, due to its homicide rate, is an uncivilized country. The UAE, by virtue of its lower homicide rate, is, by contrast, civilized. You have an odd perception as to what denotes the concept of a civilized nation. You, as usual, dismiss the glaring fact that the UAE abides by a completely different of rules and laws, which, by definition, make it a foreboding and hazardous place to visit. Again, your out of the blue reference to the UAE’S murder rate, with regard to an article specifically detailing the travails of two individuals, caught up in the intricacies of Sharia law, is bizarre, at best. A civilized society is judged by more than its homicide rate, as evidenced by the situation transpiring in the UAE involving this couple.
By your definition, the US, due to its homicide rate, is an uncivilized country.
No. Strictly speaking, ‘civilization;’ refers to urban development and it’s correlates. There’s a popular usage which refers to order and levels of violence. The U.S. hasn’t been in a state of civil war for 150 years and mob violence has been pretty well absent throughout the post-war period (bar the 1964 to 1971 riot cycles). The slums are pretty wretched, but 90% of the population does not live there. American homicide rates compare unfavorably with Europe and a selection of the Far East, not the rest of the world.
Art, Bam Bam is right: the reported homicide rate is meaningless if practically nothing that we would consider a homicide is counted as such. It is not a salient datum, it is worthless.
FFS–it is useless to attempt to convince her of anything. A compete waste of time and energy. Any attempt to do so will be met with the expected and anticipated belligerence and rude, nasty remarks. She’s a piece of work.
Art, Bam Bam is right: the reported homicide rate is meaningless if practically nothing that we would consider a homicide is counted as such.
The notion that ‘nothing we would consider a homicide is counted at such’ is a function of your imagination, and your imagination only.
FFS–I won’t say that I told you so.
Ha Ha no kidding!! I guess he/she told me, by golly by gosh.
I’m glad that:
In America science has always proved there is absolutely no relationship between poverty and out of wedlock births.
White-managed and financed MSM constantly promotes and glorifies out of wedlock births (Murphy Brown, etc), proving how useless are men to raise children, doing everything possible to destroy family structures considered traditional years ago.
Black male children thrive and do so well in family structures lacking a black male parent, with safety net financing completely eliminating any usefulness of the black male parent when he’s done impregnating the mother.
Science proves there is no relationship between a child’s ability to thrive and being raised in family structures considered traditional years ago.
There area always brave and open forums for persons to calmly debate and disagree on the above subjects.
/sarc off
Perhaps someone knows, I am very unwilling to devote time to research Sharia Courts/Sharia law, but as I had understood it, aside from impregnation and where it occurred, it is illegal and criminal to be pregnant and unmarried under Sharia. So, the mere fact of the determination of the pregnancy was enough.
I’ve never had a desire to travel to SA nor UAE nor anywhere under such fundamentalism, but surely the guidebooks, at least some of them?, warn of the harsh local laws and that there is not likely to be dispensation for being foreign nationals.
A discussion of how sharia and statutory law are juxtaposed in the UAE is here:
http://www.thenational.ae/thenationalconversation/comment/defining-sharias-role-in-the-uaes-legal-foundation
A discussion of the significance of pregnancy out of wedlock is here:
http://www.islamopediaonline.org/fatwa/islam-online-asserts-pregnancy-out-wedlock-makes-crime-adultery-self-proved
Again, the offenses in question are ‘fornication’ and ‘adultery’ not ‘pregnancy’.
Thanks for the informative and topical links.
This story is a little like hearing about some idiot who, in an effort to prove the skeptics wrong, foolishly places his head in the open and extended mouth of a lion. Bystanders are, of course, surprised and bewildered when the ferocious animal behaves as expected, clamping down on the irresistible nugget placed in its jaws. But, them’s the risks, folks. As they say, you knew the risks going in. By the same token, if you want to put your head inside the mouth of a lion, by foolishly traveling to a locale which, undoubtedly, adheres to Sharia law, unmarried, with your knocked-up Ukrainian princess, all sorts of excitement can be expected. You’re going to soak up more than just the sun and some exotic culture. Contrary to what most believe, the massive amounts of oil revenue haven’t managed to tame or civilize these seventh century madmen; behind the glitzy facade of the ostentatious skyscrapers, they’re still just madmen, albeit, obscenely wealthy madmen, with a virulent form of b.o., who enjoy dousing themselves in bottles of cologne and upholding and enforcing a dangerous and violent ideology. Plenty of places, around the globe, to spend your hard-earned money on a vacation, without resorting to traveling to a country which enforces Sharia law. If you do choose to travel to such a place, don’t feign shock when the lion acts as expected.
Contrary to what most believe, the massive amounts of oil revenue haven’t managed to tame or civilize these seventh century madmen;
The homicide rate in the UAE is 0..7 per 100,000, lower than the European norm. The country executes about 1 person per year, on average.
This story is a little like hearing about some idiot who, in an effort to prove the skeptics wrong
Again, the UAE courts are asserting jurisdiction over something which happened in South Africa. That actually is quite unusual and something you ordinarily would not expect when traveling abroad.
This is very sad, and dangerous for this couple.
I would like to take this moment to point out that the UAE is not an appropriate place for a dating or engaged couple of visit for a vacation, or even work. They will be found out, and the consequences horrible. It’s just like visiting the jungle, where you get your guide books and learn about which snakes and spiders are venomous, predators to look out for, bug spray to keep bot flies from laying larvae inside your flesh, the weather, any local taboos against women showing their legs, and any political unrest to avoid.
Yes, I know some foreigners work or travel in Saudi Arabia, and get away with dating local men. Some even meet and marry a man there. (It’s far more common for a female worker to date a male Saudi than a male foreign worker to date a female Saudi.)
We have made a Machiavellian alliance with a country who despises us and our values, but loves to vacation here to whore and drink it up, all in order to have access to OPEC and military strategic access in the ME.
We have made a Machiavellian alliance with a country who despises us and our values, but loves to vacation here to whore and drink it up, all in order to have access to OPEC and military strategic access in the ME.
Who or what are you talking about???
Sorry. I was referring to our close ties with Saudi Arabia. Their treatment of women, gays, and apostates is only different than ISIS in degree. And Jews are prohibited from setting foot there. But we have an alliance with them because we need OPEC (who wants to repeat the long lines and unaffordable prices of the OPEC embargo?) and want strategic access to the ME which infamously hates America. So we’ve made fair-weather friends with Saudi Arabia and for the most part ignore the fact that they are diametrically opposite to Western values.
I live in CA, and the Saudis (males only) are rather infamous for vacationing here and doing absolutely everything they are prohibited from doing at home. And since the Saud royal family has literally about 15,000 members, a surprising number of Saudis who wreck cars or create disturbances either have diplomatic immunity, or their Daddy or Uncle or Cousin Twice Removed does, and they just get out of the country.
I consider it either hypocritical, or rebellious, or perhaps both, to promote or belong to the harsh restrictive regime (mostly concerned with the control of women), and then to vacation abroad and go wild, doing everything that’s against the law at home. If they worked for change at home, they would have more sincerity. As it stands, they behave like “one way for thee, another for me” in how they personally behave vs how the general population is demanded to behave. Of course, even the royals fall under the scythe of the Imams and religious police at times, so perhaps they are not so powerful at home.
I love to learn about other cultures, and I’ve enjoyed traveling. The reality is that although there can be many things that you prize about other cultures, such as generous hospitality, there are grim reminders that you are not in Kansas when traveling abroad. The treatment of this unwed couple is an example. You just don’t have the freedom and relative safety that we do here, and it’s especially dangerous for women in many regions of the world. I wouldn’t mind so much the restrictive aspects of some of these countries if it was voluntary, and the women were allowed to leave at any time. But they’re not. They are imprisoned, in effect, and many such countries require written permission from a male head of household for her to leave. These places can be very interesting to visit or learn about, but there will always be those experiences that drive home the differences between the West and Everywhere Else. Great to learn about but wouldn’t want to live there.
I disagree with their treatment of women, Jews, apostates, gays, etc. But it’s their country. I just wish there was some way for us to disentangle ourselves so we could leave ourselves, and our money, out of it.
That said, I wish Her Royal Highness Princess Basmah bint Saud bin Abdulaziz al Saud, the best of luck reforming her country from within. So far, her position as a Royal has protected her. I hope that continues but I think the extremists are always more organized, and have more access to police power, then the chaffing younger generation will ever have. And those most unhappy would be females, who have the least power to enact change.
Sorry. I was referring to our close ties with Saudi Arabia. Their treatment of women, gays, and apostates is only different than ISIS in degree. And Jews are prohibited from setting foot there. But we have an alliance with them because we need OPEC (who wants to repeat the long lines and unaffordable prices of the OPEC embargo?) and want strategic access to the ME which infamously hates America. So we’ve made fair-weather friends with Saudi Arabia and for the most part ignore the fact that they are diametrically opposite to Western values.
We have ordinary diplomatic and trade relations with Saudi Arabia. Also, American companies are given a license to sell them military equipment; the amounts vended are generally < $1 bn. If you bracket out extractive industries, they produce about $370 bn worth of goods and services every year there, so the arms sales amount to a tiny proportion of their total output. We had a significant garrison there (averaging about 6,000 troops) from 1990 to 2002, not any other time since the Kingdom's foundation in 1924.
Right. Here’s a fairly recent example from Los Angeles of royals from a brutally restrictive regime going absolutely hog wild:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3281354/I-prince-want-Saudi-royal-Prince-Majed-bin-Abdullah-bin-Abdulaziz-Al-Saud-accused-cocaine-fueled-rage-threatened-kill-Los-Angeles-mansion-staff-watched-pleasured-male-aide.html
But, I’ll bet that the homicide rate is low!
Their homicide rate is low. They make more extensive use of capital punishment in Saudi Arabia, but capital sentences are not standard even for homicides.
that gave me a laugh…
In the UAE doctors appear to have no notion of confidentiality (or humanity)
No, they have a notion of confidentiality congruent with local ordinances. Social services law commonly incorporates mandates to report suspected offenses binding on a string of professonals and quasi-professionals, physicians and school administrators among them.
The UAE court system is asserting jurisdiction over acts occurring in South Africa. Their government has abandoned them. Other countries with more moxie than South Africa need to tell the UAE that they have no such jurisdiction, and they stop attempting to claim it or the sanctions hammer falls. The UAE is a heavily trade-dependent economy so quite vulnerable.
Fly over and flush. Twice on Sunday.
“In the UAE doctors appear to have no notion of confidentiality (or humanity) . . .” Physicians are mandated to report maiden pregnancies in the UAE, and the inference is that you believe this physician should have violated the law at his peril.
Civil disobedience is a pretty radical idea, Professor, especially where they cut off heads for doing so. Would you have?
Further, I don’t know that it is our place to criticize any other culture when ours has killed so many innocents over the past two decades and we’ve not heard a word out of you regarding it.
Further, I don’t know that it is our place to criticize any other culture when ours has killed so many innocents over the past two decades and we’ve not heard a word out of you regarding it.
The professor’s remarks are not properly constrained by your malicious fantasies.
“Further, I don’t know that it is our place to criticize any other culture when ours has killed so many innocents over the past two decades and we’ve not heard a word out of you regarding it.”
When other countries violate human rights, I comment on it, and bemoan the fact that we ally with countries who are very similar to ISIS in their treatment of women. It’s really a matter of degree. When criminals break the law and kill people, or a missile goes astray overseas, then I comment on that, too. We are not required to comment on all crimes or misdeeds in order to criticize any one on that list. Another example is that I’ve often heard that we cannot criticize the treatment of women under Sharia Law because we have domestic abusers here in the US. But that is just a false logic line of reasoning.
And if you are talking about our various wars, then there is certainly room to debate that issue. But it’s like saying you cannot condemn a fatal drunk driving accident because we didn’t condemn the North Korean missile test. The two don’t follow.
And if you are talking about our various wars, then there is certainly room to debate that issue. But it’s like saying you cannot condemn a fatal drunk driving accident because we didn’t condemn the North Korean missile test. The two don’t follow.
If you’re a lout whose entire worldview is built around self-congratulation, it does follow.
Leaders that advocate peace in the U.S. get assassinated. JFK, RFK, MLK, Malcom X, Paul Wellstone et al.
May they rest in peace.
bill mcwilliams – JFK started the troops in Vietnam and is responsible for the Bay of Pigs. Malcolm X is a former pimp who reportedly beat his girls. RFK supported both JFK and LBJ. I will give you the others.
The man you’re responding to is a manifest kook (9/11 twoofer, JFK conspiracy nut). It’s your business if you want to waste your time.
You obviously aren’t aware that the HSCA itself concluded that JFK’s murder was probably the result of a conspiracy.
You obviously believe that large airliners can fly thru steel buildings as though there were made of butter.
You’ve consumed way too much of the Kool Aid. Tis a pity, but you can remain comfortably numb as long as you wish.
You obviously aren’t aware that the HSCA itself concluded that JFK’s murder was probably the result of a conspiracy.
On the basis of the report of acoustical evidence which was definitively discredited in 1981. It was pointed out as soon as the report was issued that the HSCA report made little sense as their alignment of ‘shots’ with frames on the Zapruder film had Oswald shooting through a tree in full foliation. David Belin also pointed out that features of the tape the acoustics specialist analysed suggested it hadn’t been recorded in Daley plaza at all, something later demonstrated.
You may disagree with the truth, but it only demonstrates how very little you know about the case.
My knowledge of the case is adequate. I want no knowledge of whatever nonsense your imagination has spun regarding this event or any other.
bill mcwilliams – in 1945 a B-25 Mitchell bomber flew into the Empire State Building. It was moving at a lot slower speed than the jets at the Twin Towers.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/b-25-bomber-crashed-empire-state-building-1945-article-1.2300615
Paul – the Empire State building didn’t collapse, did it. Also, if had studied the evidence you would know that the Twin Towers didn’t collapse either. They exploded. And all of the dangerous radioactive particles is the direct cause of why so many of the First Responders have died of cancer.
Listen, I’ve studied the evidence, not just the Bush Fairy Tale conspiracy. 9/11 was a false flag and you’d have to be really dense and slow to believe that CIA asset Usama single handedly planned and carried out a means of defeating the National Security defense of the U.S.
Your distortion of history is astounding. I hadn’t realized that you are so poorly informed.
bill mcwilliams – I do not see a correction. Have to assume I was right the first time. 😉
“A fool can ask a question it would take a hundred wise men to answer”. It isn’t my job to try and educate you. Your knowledge is limited to right-wing propaganda points. The truth about historical events that has eluded you is out there. If you want to become more informed, stop spending hours posting half-truths and dishonest distortions on this site – and read some history for God’s sake.
bill mcwilliams – I both have a degree in history and have taught it.
I am with the UAE on this one. Tourists are on their own while traveling. This is why I do not travel in the ME.
So you are unwilling to criticize or condemn such laws? You think there nothing morally reprehensible about Sharia Law?
dogfightwithdogma – it is their country, their laws.
There are many people outside of the United States that find our constitutional law to be morally reprehensible; immigration law is the first thing that comes to mind. That’s okay, but it is our country and our laws.
There’s likely to be something reprehensible about any legal system. See the legal regime in Penna re Kermit Gosnell.