Turkey De-Evolves: Erdogan Government Bars Teaching of Evolution As Unproven and Controversial

52 thoughts on “Turkey De-Evolves: Erdogan Government Bars Teaching of Evolution As Unproven and Controversial”

  1. Be careful when you equate intelligence with sensible politics or moral rectitude ; the evil genius springs to mind and the large number of highly intelligent university trained members of ISIS. In good secular democracies control never lies in the hands of one person or one party for we all have a tendency to know just what is good for other people. If I ruled the world all would be peace and harmony eh?
    How is the world ruled ? just what forces maintain the status quo ? Are the forces intellectual or emotional? To find out we need to put the world under the microscope and the most obvious characteristic is a pyramid of wealth. Each layer is struggling to climb up to the next and the elite topmost are determined to remain on the pinnacle. Science has not changed this, it has always been so ; science has made hot water and toilets essential along with hospitals and hygiene. Still we have twenty million Indians who have no toilets.
    The pyramid is maintained by human nature which is the result of two opposing forces ; naked ambition and the moral concern of the human conscience.

  2. I know that many here have strong feelings about evolution, either one way or the other, and both feel that they are right. However, history has proven that Darwin was ultimately defeated in what at first seemed to be a close call:

  3. Gary T — You and I appear to be the only two people with continued interest in this thread. I’ll be happy to discourse further as soon as I return to the battery charger.

    1. That was quite decent. As for just one, the speed of light in a vacuum, the problem is the inability to produce a perfect vacuum. For even if all the ordinary matter can be excluded from the apparatus, there is dark matter and no way to control that.

      But as always in these philosophical inquiries there can never be a fixed answer, just the best so far.

      1. Don’t conflate philosophical inquiries, with provable science.
        Philosophy may drive science, but science proves whether the driving philosophy was correct in the first place.

          1. I had actually watched this TEDtalk a couple years ago. And I have watched it again here now.
            I did not miss the main point of the lecture.
            My comment is quite germane.
            Sheldrake indeed seeks to disassemble certain presumptions about the immutability of reality, and the independence of reality from the observer who is viewing it.
            He basically wishes to legitimize the idea that all of existence is provisional, and is subject to our intellectual argument in it mutability. Both in theory and in practice.

            Now, I have a soft spot in my heart for New Ageism, and the free flying concepts and original ideas that flow from it, and I am even willing to entertain those ideas, but for me throw out all the provably true foundations of scientific thought and assumption, based upon simple assertions that that they are all arbitrary, is a bit much to do without evidence, other than intellectual passion and wonderment.
            I could if the evidence was there to support it, but it isn’t, and until then in practice, I will go with what actually works, not with what might be.

  4. Study of enough general biology and paleontology should be enough to convince one of the correctness of the Theory of Evolution. But add in genetics and molecular biology as needed. Maybe cellular biology as well.

  5. Yet another complaint about something fairly harmless happening in a locus where you’ve never lived and have nothing of interest at stake.

    And another round of blather from prog-trash demonstrating to the world their essential vapidity manifest in a political discourse ring-mastered by the likes of John Oliver.

  6. Farewell Istanbul! I think we can safely check yet another Middle Eastern country off the list of chic places to visit. The trend overall has been towards more extremism, rather than modernization. It’s like we are watching the reverse evolution of society, where a form of violent, expansive manifest destiny Puritanism is the norm. Wish I could air lift all the kids out so they could have a fresh start.

    I’m curious. Do they think that all life currently existing today existed at the beginning of our planet? Do they not believe in Ice Ages? Or if they do, do they believe that tropical plants flourished under the snow? Do they believe that dinosaurs never existed?

      1. G Trieste – Evolution is still a theory, not a law like gravity. Really, there is evidence for and evidence against. However, there is no Holy Grail making it the Law of Evolution.

        1. Paul, you obviously have a very limited understanding of the terms theory and scientific law and the relationship between them. Theories are the big ideas in science, the unifying concepts. Scientific laws are actually parts of theories. The Universal Law of Gravitation is part of the Theory of Gravity. The Theory explains why the law holds true. So please stop dismissing scientific theories as though they are less important or significant than scientific laws, or in some way inferior to them. They are not.

          Just what is the evidence that stands against evolution? What matters is not what evidence stands in opposition to a theory, but what is the quality and quantity of that evidence in contrast to the quality and quantiy of evidence that supports the theory. In the case of evolution there is an overwhelming preponderance of evidence both in its favor and that is explained by the theory. Whatever evidence there might be that stands against evolution is paltry, weak, and exceptionally poor in both quality and quantity.

        2. Evolution is a theory.
          But the term of the art “theory” in scientific terms means something rather different than what it does in common vernacular.
          It is not just some disconnected idea that might be true, it is something that can be observed in controlled experiments directly. And of course it is observed over years, but within the observer’s lifetime, and it observed over historical times, as well as projected on evidence that exists for prehistorical times.
          It is far more supported in observation and evidence, than any countering theory.
          So, take your pick, something obviously provable, or something that is conjectural.

          1. Gary T – Einstein’s Theory of Relativity was based on speculation, not observation. And I am not sure where the Big Bang Theory is these days.

            1. No.
              It was based upon the inertial frame invariance of electric and magnetic fields as described in Maxwell’s Electromagnetic equations.
              It was further bolstered by the actual observations of the Michelson-Morley experiment, which also showed invariance of light speed.

              1. Gary T.,

                The lack of casual differentiation between Einstein’s special relativity paper (p. 1905) and his general relativity (p. 1916) never ceases to amaze me.

                Thanks for pointing out, even though you did not differentiate between the two, that Einstein’s special relativity was based on the, “inertial frame invariance of electric and magnetic fields as described in Maxwell’s Electromagnetic equations”, coupled with the result of the Michelson–Morley experiment (c. 1887) concerning the constancy of the speed of light.

                It is an excellent summation — given that this venue professes:

                “Einstein’s Theory of Relativity was based on speculation, not observation.”


                with no distinction between the two, yet ignores all the validations of more than a century of both special and general relativity – can we all say gravity waves?

                Thank you, Gary T., for your brief reminder of genius.

                1. Ignorance Abides – the special theory of relativity was not proved until 2011. The General Theory of Relativity is incomplete leaving it open to wormholes, the Big Bang, time travel and parallel universes. A theory that is incomplete is unproveable.

            2. “Einstein’s Theory of Relativity was based on speculation, not observation.”

              Yet, his ‘speculations’ have been sustained by very precise ‘observations’ for 112 years. Have they not?

              Who the hell are you — to not even differentiate between the special and general theories — claiming speculation of source? Have you not observed?

              What a fool you are.

  7. Wait till the American Taliban gets ahold of this, oh….Texas is well on its way……

  8. I suspect the practical impact of this particular decision will be minimal. Really, think about it. How is anybody’s day to day life affected by whether or not they believe that God created life, or that life is just endemic to the Universe in some mysterious way?

    If anything, believing that you have evolved from a monkey like creature sort of justifies people in acting like monkeys. Because we can’t help it. It’s in our genes. Meanwhile, believing in a Creator, who expects a certain level of good behavior from you, on penalty of being punished after death, has all sorts of good effect in reining in malevolent impulses.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    1. Your “theory” is disproven everyday by members of Congres and many others who claim to be “religious”.

      1. No. It looks that way to you, because you focus on religious hypocrites, probably to the exclusion of other hypocrisies. For example, Mr. Global Warming, Al Gore, living in a 15,000 square foot house, and jetting around the world in his private jet, so he won’t have to ride with the hoi polloi. Plus, I guess he can’t get that special sort of massage up there in First Class.

        Squeeky Fromm
        Girl Reporter

        1. Well, I am one of those who believe in evolution, and do not believe in AG global warming.
          That puts me in funny company sometimes.

    2. “Meanwhile, believing in a Creator, who expects a certain level of good behavior from you, on penalty of being punished after death, has all sorts of good effect in reining in malevolent impulses.”

      80% of christian evangelicals voted for Trump.

      Your argument is demolished.

    3. Squeeky, you obviously hold some misunderstandings about human evolution as evidenced by the following: “…believing that you have evolved from a monkey…” Humans did not evolve from monkeys.

      “Humans and monkeys are both primates. But humans are not descended from monkeys or any other primate living today. We do share a common ape ancestor with chimpanzees. It lived between 8 and 6 million years ago. But humans and chimpanzees evolved differently from that same ancestor. All apes and monkeys share a more distant relative, which lived about 25 million years ago.” (http://humanorigins.si.edu/how-are-humans-and-monkeys-related)

      Please inform yourself sufficiently on a topic before venturing to speak on it. At least have enough respect for the principles of intellectual integrity and honesty to rid yourself of myths and misunderstandings before speaking on a subject.

      1. Humans were descended from chimps when I was in public school. (Decades ago) after a while and much laughter on why are there still primates, they switched it to common ancestor.
        Keep moving the fairy tale goal posts.

  9. I’m Erdogan the Eighth I am!
    I lived in France in a garbage can.
    I got married to the widow next door.
    She’s been married seven times before.
    And everyone was an ErdoGan.
    It wouldn’t be a Willy or a Fred.
    For there ain’t no name like Erdogan!
    Erdogan the Eighth I am!

  10. I fail to see significant policy differences between Erdogan and the USA’s religious wrong/right movement. Current amount of power? Yes! But that may be the only thing preventing the USA from similar de-evolvement……….. and Devos’ garbage education. Although, after the conservative mass murder deathcare/trumpcare/liebertariancare bill passes and kills thousands or tens of thousands Americans annually, we certainly seem to be getting closer Erdoganland.

    1. “conservative mass murder deathcare/trumpcare/liebertariancare bill passes and kills thousands or tens of thousands Americans annually”

      How many babies are killed by your abortion factories? These babies are innocent and have no means for survival and yet you call a policy that requires people to be self reliant and get their own insurance mass murder?

      1. wasn’t comparing one to the other. the simple fact is that trump death care will kill in excess of ten thousand Americans annually – and also increase costs and deductibles for those lucky enough to still have insurance. As for self-reliance? you crack me up. trump’s/liebertarian’s death care insurance allows people to not be responsible….use hospital facilities for basic healthcare and worse……..and then not pay their bills….leaving taxpayers to pick up the tab. self-reliant? actually the exact opposite.

        btw – when your insurance costs and deductibles go up, I’d bet you’ll still blame someone else. And definitely don’t look at states like Texas and compare with third world countries mortality rate. hint – Texas is worse

  11. Hey, we have plenty of nuts in the USA who would view this as a step in the right direction! Theocrats of every stripe are dangerous to humans.

    1. Now if Erdogan believes in the Quran for his science, well we could try to help him with that. But like atheist theories of origins were our ‘ancestors crawled out of a primordial pond’, it is just as funny.

    2. “It does not show random chance.”
      Yes it does. The result of an unimaginably large number of chemical interactions, over the eons. Only ONE had to be self-replicating, and then we are off to the races.

      Before long (maybe even now?) scientists will be able to create self-replicating organisms, from scratch. No divine action required. And, of course, before long humanity will be able to fiddle with human DNA, for better or worse. All our kids to look like movie stars?

  12. I continue to suspect that Erdogan staged the failed coup but maybe he was too stupid to do that.

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