Bizarre, Criminal law, International, Media, Politics

Worst Spy Story Ever: Media Builds On Le Carre Knockoff “Tinker, Trumper, Lawyer, Spy”

I have been discussing the dubious claims of criminal liability over the meeting of Donald Trump Jr. with a Russian lawyer at Trump Tower.  As I have mentioned, there is a legitimate reason to investigate this latest undisclosed meeting, though the overheated rhetoric on possible (if not imminent) criminal charges is bizarre. This morning on CNN, Sen. Richard Blumenthal raised possible charges of espionage and treason.  Putting aside the facially weak foundation for such charges, I must again note that the underlying narrative around this meeting remains rather speculative and unbelievable. I have worked on the legal side of national security investigations for decades in both espionage and terrorism cases. As I said when this meeting first surfaced, none of this makes sense as an actual Russian intelligence operation as opposed to a rather transparent “bait-and-switch.”  If this is a Russian spy mystery, it hardly makes for a sequel of Le Carre’s “Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy.”

Once again, I consider the meeting to be a serious mistake and that the proper response would have been to contact the FBI about such an email and offer.  Moreover, it is highly disturbing not to have had this meeting disclosed earlier.  This posting is simply about the suggestion that this was, as stated in the email, a Russian government operation.

Let me try to sum up this theory.

The Russians decide to reveal their super secret clandestine effort to secure the presidency for Donald Trump.  So they put together a high-ranking, high-visibility meeting at Trump Tower without knowing who would be at the meeting.  They also allow a creepy publicist to send an email discussing the grand conspiracy.  They then do a Charlie Brown football moment and do not actually disclose the promised incriminating evidence against Hillary Clinton.  Does that track with any cognizable Russian intelligence operation?  What possible advantage is there in revealing their operation, promising intel, and then not actually sharing anything of value? The Russians are not perfect but they are not morons.  If this was  Russian operation, we truly have over-estimated our opposition.

Russians do not usually set up meetings at places like Trump Tower with an unknown number of persons to discuss secret operations.  Setting up such a meeting would give others leverage against the Russians by disclosing their operation.  Russians are not known to hand over leveraging information, particularly for nothing in return.  Spies are by their nature control nuts.

In the end, we are also left with the curious fact that nothing was turned over. Even if you doubt the word of those in the meeting, there is the fact that nothing was actually revealed against Clinton. In the end, there may be more evidence to change my skepticism and the Russians could be shown to the utter clowns suggested in coverage.  However, the most obvious explanation is often the right one. It is Occam’s razor that the simplest explanation is usually the right choice between theories.

There is another possibility for Occam’s razor: the Trump team fell for the world’s dumbest bait-and-switch.  This lawyer has long fought to lift the adoption ban. That is not the type of thing that would secure a meeting, let alone high-ranking meeting, at Trump Tower.

Of course, the email is damaging and plays well to this theory of a grand Russian conspiracy with Donald Trump Jr. at the center.  He did after all eagerly go to a meeting with the understanding that he was going to meet a Russian government lawyer who would pass information damaging from Hillary Clinton as part of a Russian effort to influence the election.  He is worthy of criticism for such a decision and it certainly fuels the conspiracy theories.  However, as Easterhase told Smiley in Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy: “Things aren’t always what they seem.”

230 thoughts on “Worst Spy Story Ever: Media Builds On Le Carre Knockoff “Tinker, Trumper, Lawyer, Spy””

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  4. Allan,
    This is out of sequence…it’s too difficult to use the reply box w
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    Barely wide enough to accomadate one letter.
    Ahkmetshin is known as a pro-Russian lobbyist.
    If he meets with political figures, then makes a point of publically revealing details of those meetings, he is likely to be viewed as being as toxic as Chernobyl.
    This may all get sorted out, eventually.
    Right now, Ahkmetshit’s role in this is very strange.

  6. The only explanation that makes sense is that this was an op. Someone in the IC wanted to do political surveillance on TrumpWorld. They needed to manufacture a pretext for a FISA warrant. Reportedly they were turned down before, but were successful in June. What was different, the Fusion GPS pee dossier and the meeting with the Fusion GPS honeypot.

  7. I’m still waiting for the investigation of the Putin bombing campaign over “deplorables'” land–you know the one consisting of Russian nesting dolls that contain notes stating, “don’t vote for Clinton, she has fat ankles.”

    That certainly turned tide. This mockery of justice keeps continuing….

  8. More than likely Trump Jr. Was remembering the NY Time article he read in 2013, were it talks about Clinton and Russia Collusion and pay to play. And if anything juicy came out of the meeting he was going to call the NY FBI office and give them the heads up. That’s what good citizens do. And that’s what he implied at the end of the Hannity interview.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html

  9. The real threat to our nation is the collusion between the MSM and the Demoncrats

      1. “Reality has a liberal bias.”

        David if you know your history then you certainly know that what you say has merit. Unfortunately you are right for the wrong reason. The classical liberal is quite different than the Liberal of today which is more of a political party than a philosophy. It was expedient for the left to adopt the world ‘liberal’ while changing what the word means. Take note how the left has now destroyed the use of that word and has gone on to call themselves progressives.

        I suggest you read a bit about the founding of the nation and who our founders relied upon. They were more frequently than not classical liberals. Today’s Liberal should be spelled with a capital ‘L’ to distinguish it from a philosophy and make it clear that it is a movement that is quite different than what the classical liberal stood for. Do you know or remember who suggest the use of the capital L?

        1. The reason Trump Jr. wasn’t forthcoming about the other Russian who attended the infamous meeting?

          1. “The reason Trump Jr. wasn’t forthcoming about the other Russian who attended the infamous meeting?”

            Linda, you will have to clarify your question and the data behind your question in order for me to give a reasonable answer. Also doyou have any information on The connection of the lawyer in the room with Fusion GPS and Democratic involvement?

            1. Rinet Akhmetshin
              Recommended reading, The Intercept – “6 days after Trump Jr.’s meeting, Guccifer 2.0…” (Sam Biddle, July 14, 2017)
              Readers only have the words of a liar about the content of the meeting (and, a Russian lawyer’s characterization). If the meeting was short, it could be the Trump team was told about the planned release of illegally obtained information which was identified as a “gift “from the Russian government. On the other hand, if I was Trump Jr. and I had been promised info. that I was salivating to get and had invited Mannafort and Kushner because it was such an important find, I would spend more than 20 min. hoping to flush out the info. so that I could boast to Trump Sr. that I had helped him win.

              1. The characterization of Trump as a liar before the facts are entered is a bit of a stretch. “it could be the Trump team was …” is conjecture not proof. Moreover that conjecture sounds as if it comes from a biased person. What the writer would do doesn’t represent what Linda or anyone else would do. I have learned nothing from this passage you copied.

                I also asked if you had any information on Fusion GPS as certain relationships to the people likely involved might go back as far as 1996. The historical involvement represented solid Democrats as opposed to Republicans or supporters of Trump. Do you have any information on the lawyer and her potential connection to Fusion GPS?

                1. Christo’s blog July 11, 2017 describes the settlement for less than 3% of the amount initially sought, linked to the N.Y. D.A.’s replacement, after Trump fired his predecessor. The lawyer for the Russian company is of note.

                    1. BTW- Did right wing media omit the video tape of Trump Jr. saying there were no meetings? Msm aired it again this week. Impossible to refute.

                    2. I heard he said there were no meetings on both the right wing media and the left, but the timing of that remark and the context is sort of confusing. There was no conspiracy at least as far as where the proof takes us. Investigate, but while we investigate we should be focusing on healthcare, the economy and foreign affairs. I hope the investigation tracks itself back to 1996 so we can clear the air all around. A lot of right wing pundits are beating up on Trump because that seems fashionable today. I will let history tell me who was right and who was wrong. In the meantime too many Americans need relief so that is where I would concentrate my efforts.

                      Just so you understand I don’t think Trump Jr. did anything out of the ordinary for Republicans or Democrats.

                  2. I note that you haven’t mentioned anything about Fusion GPS and the lawyer. There is loads of commentary on both entities.

                    1. Allan,….
                      I did some quick checking to clear up the some questions I had about Akhmetishin.
                      MesiaIte, July 14 has an article “Rinet Ahkmetishin reportedly worked with Company that made Russian Pee Dossier”.
                      That company was, of course, Cusion GPS.
                      The article goes on to qoute Sen. grassley about it being “particularly xisturbing that Mr. ahkmetishin and Fusion GPS were working together in this pro-Russian lobbying effort in 2016 in light of Mr. ahkmetshin’s history and reputation”.

                    3. Thanks tnash. I have read that the players go back as far a 1996 and had involvement with avowed Democrats. There are just too many Russian connections so I think it all should be flushed out no matter which side of the isle if any wrongdoing occurred. The Trump Jr. event IMO is a nothing no matter what anyone in the room says unless there is a tape. Otherwise it is he said she said type of blather.

                      View this: http for just one example: //www.bizpacreview.com/2017/07/13/radical-dem-worked-russian-lawyer-met-donald-trump-jr-513333

                      Radical Dem worked for Russian lawyer who met with Donald Trump Jr.

                      “Radical left-wing icon former California Democratic Rep. Ron Dellums was a hired lobbyist for Natalia Veselnitskaya, the Russian lawyer who met with Donald Trump Jr. June 9, 2016, … The former congressman is one of several high-profile Democratic partisans who was on Veselnitskaya’s payroll …Christopher Cooper, the founder and CEO of Potomac Square Group, also joined Veselnitskaya. … The company’s clients have included Democratic California Gov. Jerry Brown and Democratic presidential hopeful Vermont Gov. Howard Dean.”

                  3. Don’t know what 3% you are talking about. If the blogger is providing facts then you should be able to read from the original source.

                    1. The 3% is in reference to the case brought by Preet Bharara relating to certain Perveson companies.
                      I’m sure there are original sources on the topic available on the internet.

                    2. Settlements are frequently made because both parties realize that an expensive court trial won’t provide benefit after the lawyer’s fees are incorporated. That is why they settle. 3% almost sounds like a nuisance settlement where the one being sued just wanted to end the suit knowing he would win in court. He chooses not to go to court because he has to spend money on lawyers while government agencies don’t spend their own personal money, but spend ours. Adding the legal costs to delays and other externalities might cost the individual far more money even if they won in court. It is not infrequent that government abuses its power and forces settlements onto the people they govern.

                1. No, not saying that. The story Allan references about Fusion GPS is thinner than water. Allan introduced Fusion to the thread.

                  1. Linda,..
                    Newsweek, thegatewaypundit, NBC NEWS and others have all reported on akhmetshin’s ties with Fusion GPS.

                    Sen. Grassley has mentioned that connection as well.
                    If your preferred scenario is that he was not connected to Fusion GPS, continue ignoring any news that runs counter to what you want to believe.

                  2. Headline from the Washington Post, certainly not a right wing media outlet rather one that has been slow or avoided writing about thinkgs that could exhonerate all the Trumps or related things that could implicate Democrats ( a very partisan newspaper).

                    Josh Rogin
                    “Inside the link between the Russian lawyer who met Donald Trump Jr. and the Trump dossier”

                    The Trump dossier was related to Steele and Fusion GPS.

                    1. Allan,
                      I think I already mentioned Sen. Garassley’s complaint about the connection between Ahkmetshin and Fusion GPS.
                      Grassley made a formal complaint to the DOJ; that complaint is dated March 31, 2017.
                      So Ahkmetshin was “on the radar” of the Senate Judiciary Committed before his name surfaced publicly.

                    2. tnash, I recognize that and I am not happy with the Trump affair even though I think it is nothing more than a distraction. However, it appears that the links to this affair might go as far back as 1996 with some serious abuses by Democratic operatives. I would not say a word about Trump Jr’s problem if all of these similar things were managed in the same fashion. Clinton’s involvements with the Ukraine government is a known fact and now the government of Ukraine I believe is appologizing to Trump.

    2. Excellent message from Tim Black Autumn, thank you. We know the Democrats have sold their collective soul to Wall Street and gave up on issues like poverty in exchange for identity politics. They are so sick, they would hold the world hostage with a fanciful notion of a war against the other highly-nuclear-armed world power just to get their way. Spoiled children x 100. Apparently Democrats are unable to learn anything outside of their own immediate desires. I have mentioned it before, how does all this hot air help the people of Flint? We have the chance to revisit the discussion on that extra constitutional dog & pony show, Obamacare. Where is the input on that? I hope the citizens see this whole stupid exercise isn’t about America–it’s about control and power for the Democrats and the MSM.–Which is where this the main idea of this post was pointing. The Democrats have offered NOTHING! Time to shake off party politics.

      1. It is a condemnation of representative democracy that people like you can vote. Even worse, you have the constitutional right to procreate and create more paranoid, sadists like yourself.

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  12. Autumn,…
    This is in reply to your lastest comment 9:06PM?, I think
    The “Reply” box is unusable, so this is out of sequence.
    Jerimiah Wright was born and raised in an integrated Pennsylvania community.
    The military was actually ahead much of the rest of the country in integration after Truman desegregated the military…1948, I think.
    Wright was in the military in the early to mid 1960s.
    I don’t know where he was stationed….if it was in the deep South, he may have had experience with Jim Crow laws.
    Not all states had de jure segregation…..so Wright may not have experienced the “Jim Crow” type of discrimination.
    Do you have specific knowledge of where he was stationed, and where he was denied entry because he’s Black?

    1. Hey TNash – agree – don’t know what’s going on with the comment responses.

      So, I don’t know where Wright spent all of his military career service except he was a medical corpsman in the Navy and once was present when LBJ had some procedure done. He also knew Moyers who worked for LBJ.

      https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jeremiah_Wright_as_a_Marine_Medic_Tending_to_Pres_Lyndon_Johnson.jpg

      As far as integration – I have always made the point that the military successfully integrated way before the rest of society did. But there were still stigmas and the blacks were aware of all the Civil Rights issues when he was a young man.

      Wright was more fortunate than many blacks of the time to be sure – I have listened to several interviews and he is highly educated and draws from a wide variety of sources.

      My Dad served in the Army in the 50s in Iceland and he saw quite a bit of racism – for a bit of excitement sometimes blacks would be flown through the airbase just to stir up some excitement -apparently the natives went wild =)

      1. Autumn,…
        When you said it was years before Wright could sit down with Whites, I thought you knew something in his bio that substantiated that claim.
        It looks like Wright was had a pretty successful military stint, and I don’t know that he was ever denied the right to “sit down with Whites”.

        1. TNash, that might have been hyperbole – maybe Wright was never denied a place at the lunch counter, but I think he identified with those who were.

          Also, maybe projection on my part – I have never come to terms with the racial divide I’ve experienced since moving to the US. It’s really bizarre.

          1. autumn – I identify with my Irish relatives who were killed and oppressed by the British, so I could see Wright’s point.

            1. Paul, it’s interesting you say that – just finished reading “Hillbilly Elegy” — and while I thought it might be more rightly named as “White Trash Elegy” the author brought up some interesting points. I was raised in Germany but my genes are definitely Scots-Irish with a bit of Cherokee mixed in so I have a temper and distrust authority =) And despite my educational/cultural background I tend to identify with the truly oppressed – kind of a reverse elitism?

              Apropos the Irish – the author I’ve been reading this summer is Tana French – she’s Irish and a great writer.

              1. J. D. Vance worked for a Republican politician while he went to Ohio State. He is being groomed for political office. His ready-made campaign slogan is in “…Elegy”, “I didn’t get to where I am by making excuses.” The Economist reviewed the book, which is a clue to his supporters. Vance is back in Ohio talking up the favorite issue of Ohio politicians, the opioid crisis.

              2. Autumn,
                “The Immortal Irishman” by Tim Egan, provides a fascinating history of an exiled Irish hero and Civil War General. The Irish were considered among the finest fighting troops in the Union army. The largest riot the U.S. ever experienced was during the war years. It had a sordid underpinning.

          2. Autumn,…
            Joe Frazier once commented on knowledge of the ghetto, and his experiences growing up in a sharecropper’s family in South Carolina.
            I’d quote him, but I don’t think it would clear the censor filter.😉

            1. TNash, Even though I became annoyed with Charles Blow’s incessant shillin’ for Hil his autobiography is excellent. Also the columnist Leonard Pitts has written some good novels. I’ll have to look up Frazier.

          3. “I have never come to terms with the racial divide I’ve experienced since moving to the US”

            Where do you come from and where did you settle?

            1. Allan and Autumn,.
              I would be interested in “when”, as well as “where”.
              The push for integration lost momentum by the late 1960s.
              When the trend toward “Black Separatism” or “Black Supremacy” grew stronger, so did “the racial divide”.
              I think Keith Ellison, aka Keith Hakeem, wrote about establishing a separate “Black Nation” in the 1990s.

              1. TNash, that’s interesting about Ellison. Never liked the guy although I think he’s better than Perez (NOT saying much!) I read a book about the 70s some years ago by David Frum (yes, THAT Frum) which helped me understand about bussing and how the elites pushed it whereas the working class whites and blacks were not on board.

                When I moved from Charleston to DC I was struck by the stark difference — blacks down here were largely invisible but the blacks I saw and met up there were educated professionals (like a lot of the blacks I met who were in the military in GermanY) and I wished that the kids down here could see them.

                I am very disillusioned at the “social programs” I’ve seen.

                1. I think one of the best authors on economics and culture is Thomas Sowell who is hated by the left because he uses real numbers that demonstrate the failures of our social programs. He is probably hated most because he is black and removed himself from the plantation of the left. Pick a subject and likely he has a book on it or at least talks about it in one of his books. His autobiography is fascinating and he states he was lucky to have been born when he was for the way we have managed our social problems has created more problems for his minority and the country as a whole. Just look at pictures of Harlem before and after the 1960’s and one can get a vivid picture of a developing problem.

                    1. “Sowell and Clarence Thomas occupy the same space.”

                      Linda, they do so only because of the left and because they are black and aren’t supposed to leave the plantation. Other than that they both have their own specific expertise. I think both should be respected based upon what they have acheived and not grouped because of their color.

                    2. Rewriting history, Allan? What was Thomas’ job history prior to the Supreme Court appointment? Was it related to Affirmative Action or the EEOC? Sowell may be more honest than Thomas. Clarence forgot to put his wife’s employment with the Heritage Foundation on his disclosure forms.

                    3. “Rewriting history, Allan? ”

                      What am I rewriting? Sowell and Thomas are two different individuals that you seem to lump together because they are black. If they were both white would you lump them together the same way? Wouldn’t you then have to include Scalia or Alito? It sounds like neither of them was included because they were white. Please clarify by starting with an explanation of “Sowell and Clarence Thomas occupy the same space.”

                  2. Sorry, I don’t understand what you mean. I can occupy the same place as a plant but there is no similarity between the two. What was your meaning behind Sowell and Thomas occupying the same space?

                    1. I should have added that the actual space they occupy for Thomas is the Supreme Court, for Sowell it is economist, esteemed writer, economist for private business and academic. They are worlds apart.

            2. Allen, I grew up in what was then West Germany – my father and mother were teachers for DoD. We lived in a village but went to military schools on base so I was always connecting with whites/blacks/browns/asians whether as teachers or classmates.

              I initially wound up in TN for college, moved to Charleston, SC, DC, Las Vegas and now am back in Charleston.

              1. Autumn, thank you. I wasn’t sure if you were an American or immigrated here. I don’t think any thinking person will ever come to terms with any racial divide. We have to take into account history and the make up of humansc and recognize things move slowly as generations chage.

                I was brought up in a very liberal family so when we travelled south we would get the glare if we stopped and as a big family split up to drink at both white and black water fountains. I watched racism diminish, with time but the race hawkers who made their living off of racism proliferated. When Obama became President I wasn’t pleased because of his lack of consideration for economic realities, but accepted him hoping he would do great things and when his term was over this silly question about race could end. Unfortunately the situation got worse.

                Today we are left with an economy with a debt of $20 Trillion and an actuarial debt of over $100 Trillion. Though we are now reaching what is economically considered full employment we have way too many people who could work, but don’t even fall into the U 6, Our work ethic is not as strong as needed to maintain high wages for the youngest generations. Our school system have not been educating our youth so that they can prosper in future years. The one’s paying the biggest price for our government failures (both left and right) are the middle class with children and minorities.

                I don’t worry about myself at this time. This country has been good to me and for the most part the world. I want to see it continue on its path securing its people while it continues to be an overall benefit to the world. The left has a tendency to look at the US as a bad place, but it has elevated the lives of hundreds of millions of people around the globe despite its mistakes.

                1. Thanks for the viewpoints Allan. I grew up in Appalachia, 150mi NW of DC, in the 60s and 70s. It was very white, but more families of color moved in all the time. I would have to say they were readily accepted, and it wasn’t every really discussed, at least on racial terms. My friends, who happen to be black (I don’t organize my friends based on color), are the workers and professional people who I see. It all seemed to go wrong at some point, and my personal opinion is that people doing collective good checked out a long time ago. The Democrat party has switched from helping to merely “leveraging” the opinion of the black community, and they do it in the worst possible way, they create the personal identity for them to “live down to.” When you are always the victim, you are always looking for help, and the Democrats have cashed in on that (common political trick, but they have taken it to the extreme).

                  The Democrats have been playing this card for a long time, and I don’t see any improvement. They always have excuses though. Their latest tactic is continue to victimize the black population while throwing the working class white population under the bus. You here the Democrats who post here frequently jump on this line of reasoning. Maybe that is a main reason why most governorships became Republican (BTW, I have no party affiliation, I argue as I see fit).

                2. The problem is not the one you describe, Allan. Concentration of wealth is strangling economic growth and opportunity. The five richest men in the world each have wealth equivalent to 750,000,000 people. Thomas Picketty’s unassailable research documents where nations are headed.
                  Six Walton heirs have wealth equivalent to 40% of Americans combined. In history, whenever resources are made scarce, people turn against the strata they perceive to be below them. The Koch’s have politically forced deprivation of the 99%. Read Gordon Lafer’s, “The One Percent Solution”.

                  1. Linda – you left Soros, Gates and Bezos off the list. Why is that?

                    1. “Thomas Picketty’s unassailable research documents where nations are headed.”

                      Thomas Picketty’s research is full of holes. Take note of those other governments. There is tremendous concentration of wealth and status in many of the countries that have adopted Picketty’s opinions.

                    2. Gates and the Koch’s are brethren oligarchs. Gates and Walton heirs have spent $1 bil. each to privatize America’s most important common good. The goal of a Gates-funded ed organization was identified in Philanthropy Roundtable, “to develop charter school organizations to produce different brands on a large scale”. Gates, Z-berg, Pearson,… are investors in the largest seller of schools-in-a-box. I believe in democracy. Charter schools are, in reality, contractor schools. Elected school boards are eliminated by privatization. Reed Hastings is in a video on-line calling for an end to democratically elected school boards. Fellow FB member Marc Andreeson said India was better off under colonialism.
                      If Soros is fighting for American democracy I wish he was spending more on the goal.
                      If Bezos is part of the non-profit industrial complex i.e. a venture “philanthropist”, he is anti-democracy like most of the tech tyrants.

                    3. “to develop charter school organizations”

                      Linda, don’t you want competition for schools so that the education of our children improves? Are you telling me that it is OK for me to choose to place my children in an expensive school while denying poorer persons the same right?

                  2. Makes you wonder why we don’t call our economy and government “techno-feudalism.”

                    Paul: especially Bezos, when are the anti-trust law questions going to start for him?

                    1. In terms of charter schools I don’t understand what this reference is. “regulation-climate cooked”

                  3. “The problem is not the one you describe, Allan. Concentration of wealth is strangling economic growth and opportunity. ”

                    Linda, I was talking about race and racism. I don’t know how you injected your concentration of wealth topic into this particular discussion.

                    Though I worry about this concentration of wealth (not for the generation that earned it rather for the more distant generations) what do you think these peole do with their money? Do you think they hide it under their matresses removing money from circulation? Are you worried about so much wealth buying so much influence? If so take note that the biggest money influence goes to the left not the right and the money that goes to the right is quite divided between libertarian and other divisions commonly seen on the right.

                    Money and power go hand in hand. As government grows money becomes more important so one would surmise from your comment that we should have a smaller government. Who are the regulators? They come from the industry that is being regulated. They strive for monopoly status so one would assume that you would be against too much regulation.

                    If you worry about the concentration of wealth look follow the money trail.

                  4. Contractor schools are a stop gap measure on the way to elimination of tax support for public education. In countries where the for-profit schools-in-a-box are sold, a parent made this plea, “Don’t make money on our poor backs.”
                    The founder, of the Gates’ school investment product, described the planned 20% return as attractive to investors.

                    1. Gates lives in the state that has the most regressive tax system in the nation. The poor pay a rate up to 7 times the rate the Gates family pays.

                    2. Linda, I understand what you say when you worry that public education can lose financing. However, our public schools are not doing enough to educate our children so that they will have the abilty to compete as well as the older generations did.

                      Therefore we need some method to force the public schools and the unions to react to the children’s needs rather than to fill their own.

                      In some areas charter schools have done very well and have take poor children and put them into a rich learning environment they would otherwise never have had. Many rich people send their children to private schools to enhance their education. Why can’t the poor be given the same opportunity?

                    3. (1) Part of the initial stop gap privatization plan is forcing taxpayers to subsidize the private schools of the rich. It weakens citizen support for education taxes, as does forcing them to pay for religious schools.
                      (2) Segregation is achieved with the cherry picking of students by contractor schools. The SPLC currently has a lawsuit against the state of Mississippi focused on contractor schools (charters). Recently, the NAACP announced its request for a moratorium on charter expansion. The idea of privatization was first proposed by racist Gov. Talmadge of Georgia when he was faced with court orders for integration.
                      (3) Contractor schools, by political design, have not been held accountable. As an example, the state of Ohio (7th largest state in the nation) is trying, in court, to get $60,000,000 back from a contractor school that allegedly has a 70% truancy rate. The abuses of unaccountable contractor schools will result in lack of citizen support for tax subsidized education. The largest contractor chain in the nation was founded by a high profile, convicted financier.
                      (4) The economic deck is stacked in favor charters. One report in plutocrat-owned ed news praised a contractor school and disparaged the public school. The contractor got $9,137 per pupil and the public school, $5,300. At the time the article was written, the contractor was back in court to get more. It will undermine taxpayer support when they are made aware that the charters’ success is the result of huge spending differentials and they can’t have input because the boards are not elected by them,.
                      (5) Arguments for tax levies focus on the link to home values. As the U.S. population ages (not having children in the schools), property value is the reason they cite for voting for school support. When schools are untethered to the neighborhood (e.g. virtual, religious, etc.) the reason to support them, for many people, is eliminated.

                    4. Two problems remain.

                      1)There have been a number of charter schools teaching the disadvantaged where the children benefit greatly. What alternative is being offered to help these children?

                      2)Since the affluent community moves in the direction of better schools for their children in areas the disadvantaged cannot afford many of the problems you mention will never end. Since the more affluent not only have better schools available on average, but many in this group send their kids to private school or spend money on tutoring so they can go to special public schools where the academics are better. Considering this enourmous divide why don’t you want to give disadvantaged children a similar opportunity?

                    5. End game- tech tyrants and Wall Street making money on the poor backs of the 99%. Greater concentration of wealth resulting in Picketty’s forecast.

                    6. People selling a product are supposed to make money otherwise they wouldn’t be able to create new products or restock the old. Are you saying that all people should be paid exactly the same? That is a theory that can be explored, but I don’t believe that is a theory that fits your desires.

                      Who makes money teaching children? Teachers, unions and their staffs, political groups (from the union) builders that build the schools, maintainance people etc. We spend a virtual fortune educating children and yet I don’t think most of us are satisfied with the education they get for the dollar spent.

                      Let’s say that for each poor disadvantaged child that wished the alternative the per child allocation of dolllars was given to a charter school that had to prove to perform at least equally if not better than the public school, would you still object to the charter school?

  13. Lock them all in Bedlam where they can babble at one another. Turley too.

  15. The timeline for the Trump/Russian story is at Moyer and Company. One can deduce from the info. that the spycraft was matched to the competence of the Trump team.

    From Turley’s summary, “the proper response should have been….”, is that lawyer-speak for the client lied?

  16. “It may not be what it seems” ? Trump Jr./Mannafort/Kushner are highly principled geniuses? They were working as double agents and are still protecting their covers?

  17. Another “nothing burger.” If the “honeypot” was toxic, if any and all Americans could not meet with the “honeypot,” the “honeypot” would never have been allowed in the country. Mysteriously, Lynch and Obama gave her an entry pass.

    Trump Jr. met with a fraud, took possession of NO information and DID nothing with any information.

    Trump Jr. attended a meeting with the potential to obtain true, factual and actionable information.

    Trump Jr. did not attend a meeting to COLLUDE with Russia or any other party.

    This is another attempt by the MSM to “incite to riot” using “fake news.”

    When “freedom of the press” becomes “incitement to riot,”

    the publishers must be arrested.

    1. Yes, arrest them and appoint a Ministry of Information to give all true patriots the real news! And we would know that they’re true patriots by the snazzy MAGA armbands they’d be wearing!

      1. The MSM has gone totally nuts and is constantly publishing lies and “fake news” to incite rioters.

        The MSM is out of control.

        The MSM is abusing “Freedom of the Press.”

        Hillary Clinton ACTUALLY USED Bleach-bit and that is truth and fact.

        Hillary Clinton destroyed 30,000 emails which constituted obstruction of justice.

        Why didn’t the MSM constantly hound Hillary, courts, judges and Congress

        until that criminal was thrown in prison?

        How about pay-for-play, contributions to the Clinton Foundation and gifting Putin with Uranium One?

        Freedom of the Press has turned into abuse and incitement to riot.

        Does the Constitution provide for incitement to riot and abuse of freedom of the press?

  19. Adoption code word for Sanctions. It is way too early to make a definitive judgment on this matter but Turley why am I not shocked with your opinion?

    1. Because Turley’s been in the pocket of the Republicans for a long time now.

  20. Turley the great spymaster can’t even get his facts straight. The adoption ban was put in place by the Russians. What Natalia Veselnitskaya, the Russian lawyer, wanted lifted was the Magnitsky Act, sanctions the US put in place on prominent Russians over the death of Sergei Magnitsky. Magnitsky was a lawyer who the Russians basically murdered in prison because he had exposed high-level money laundering that was benefiting the Putin regime.

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/07/13/magnitsky-act-russian-lawyer-in-trump-jr-meeting-lobbied-against-it-why-does-putin-hate-it-so-much.html

    1. And the adoption ban was put in place in retaliation for the Magnitsky Act. That’s why she wanted the Act lifted, so the adoption ban could also be lifted.

      1. Putin can lift that adoption ban anytime he wants. Maybe she should try talking to him if she really cares about those poor orphans so much.

        1. The lawyer wouldn’t have access to Putin. She’s a nobody. She said so. And, she said she has no involvement in politics. Russians involved in politics have reputations and records of honesty. (I thought I would answer for Turley.)

        2. LS…
          I think she’s primarily concerned about lifting the sanctions….the adoption issue may be a sideshow
          for her.
          I haven’t seen enough information on her backgound/ comnections; I’m just basing my evaluation of her objectives on what little information I do have about her.

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