I recently wrote about the dangerous calls to treat protesters as “domestic terrorists.” Most these calls focused on the neo-Nazis but the recent move by German authorities against Antifa shows that groups on the left can also be targeted by such actions. The Antifa website has been barred due to the violent role played by their members at the G20 summit in Hamburg. The Interior Ministry accused Antifa of seeking to “legitimize violence against police officers. which he described as an “expression of an attitude that tramples human dignity.”
Germany’s Interior Minister Thomas de Maizière suggested that this would not be the last such measure taken against left-wing radicalism, the New York Times reported.
Antifa and other violent protesters at the G20 caused around 476 police officers injuries.
Do you really believe that Antifa should be given license to perpetrate their violence at will? They DON”T SPEAK. They ATTACK. Is this what YOU want in this country? I can’t believe that an expert on the Constitution would want that.
Yammer below…
Antifa is part of the militant arm of Obama’s effort to “…fundamentally transform the United States of America.” “Fundamentally transform” means “Overthrow” for those of you in Rio Linda. Obama allowed the “Trojan Horse” into America; calling it “immigration.”
__________
“…a discordant intermixture must have an injurious tendency.”
Alexander Hamilton –
“The influx of foreigners must, therefore, tend to produce a heterogeneous compound; to change and corrupt the national spirit; to complicate and confound public opinion; to introduce foreign propensities. In the composition of society, the harmony of the ingredients is all-important, and whatever tends to a discordant intermixture must have an injurious tendency.”
Curiouser and curiouser… I wonder if those protesters aren’t Deep State plants to create false divisive narratives (hey, look at the squirrel over here!) to take people’s minds off real issues and to allow government(s) to take away more freedoms.
T rump’s deep state planted Nazis? Don’t believe it.
To be sure, democrats, liberals, progressives, socialists, communists, totalitarians, Nazis, fascists, dictatorships, monarchies, oligarchies, you et al. are on the left.
The Constitution is on the right.
https://twitter.com/NewYorker/status/902622022261465102
I know many people including myself that are watching for this administration to exceed its authority. Please identify anything he has done that meets that criteria. For context, compare/contrast that with the Obama administration.
You’re so clueless you think Trump is part of the Deep State? Though he’s by now mostly surrendered to them.
How large is your tinfoil hat?
Again, sedition does not fall under the protection of principles of ‘free speech’. The Antifa and the politicians and college administrators conniving with them (as well as their paymasters) are interested in suppressing opposition to the standard opinions of Democratic pols and college administrators. So are the purveyors of ‘hate speech’ laws. (Brigitte Bardot has been prosecuted 5x).
The correlation with Germany which is more obvious is the Nazi/Brown Shirt vs. Communist street brawls, interestingly in that the brawlers on both sides were composed of non-workers. (I didn’t say unemployed, they were well fed and compensated). Watching those newsreels another glaring similarity is the the Police stepped back and let both sides go at each others which resulted in widespread injuries and sometimes (Horst Wessel) deaths.The German Society of the Weimar Republic Era with it’s “Anything Goes” Motto embraced Homosexuality as Vogue, praised Atheism, adored film stars, and called for removal of entrenched institutions. Both the Alt-Right Brown Shirts and the Alt Left Communists got what they wanted, though it eventually cost them their lives.The Political Center and the Middle Class got trampled, but humans are resilient and here we are again. Now go out and tear down some statues or ban some movies or books, it’s all just Gone With the Wind.
Sidebar. In his excellent post today, “Europe Begins to Appreciate the Reality of Islamic Terrorism,” Isi Leibler nails it about Germany’s motivation in all its behavior re Muslim extremists. So they continue to grapple with the whole issue of free speech, which always has been a mirage in Europe.
“The problem escalated when Germany’s Chancellor Angela Merkel, in what many considered was a symbolic atonement displaying Germany’s remorse for the Holocaust, provided a haven and virtually unlimited entry to millions of Syrian and North African refugees.”
http://wordfromjerusalem.com/europe-begins-to-appreciate-the-reality-of-islamic-terrorism/
Simply amazing that Dems.are silent in their condemnation
Of Antifa.
It’s one of those “Shock, but not a surprise” scenarios.
They are silent because Antifa has the tacit approval of Dems and are funded by Dem mega donor, Soros.
Ding, ding, ding!!
Nancy Pelosi just put out a statement condemning Antifa.
After 18 months of antifa violence.
She really could not ignore the recent attacks in Berkeley.
Free speech is one thing, but “free speech” cannot be used as a cover to perpetrate violence, assault, property destruction & the shutdown of apposing speech/ free flow of thought, ideas. What antifa is doing is clearly unlawful. Even though there protest ARE protected “free speech”. Their tactics & methods ARE NOT! “Free speech” does NOT protect speech that advocates lawlessness. US SUPREME COURT (257 US 47, 1919)
I wonder if there could have been any important developments in Free Speech jurisprudence since 1919…
I find Antifa to be a repugnant almost terrorist group with little or no redeeming values BUT as with the KKK, I cannot support squelching their speech.
If we don’t like what they DO, we should deal with their ACTIONS. Swift intervention by law enforcement when they start to act up, and severe sentences for their criminal acts.
Suppressing speech never ends well.
If you arrest them when they yell: “Lets go kill the nigra” then you stop the terrorism in its tracks. A man in a Klan outfit has no right to speak or to wear the outfit.
Speech that incites imminent violence or mayhem, can be curtailed but speech that MAY inspire violence should not be.
The Klansman has every right to hate me, and to say so, but no right to coordinate an attack. The government may punish him but should not restrain his speech prior to any violation of law. If we introduce value judgements into the exercise of rights, we approach a dark place in civil liberties.
Slightly off subject. I’d like to see the G8 or G20 have their meetings in Moscow or ” The Forbidden City”. I wonder how an Antifa demonstration would be handled?
Singapore!
Also, people from the neighborhoods that were destroyed said that the rioters where not from the area. Although, how could anyone tell where they were from, since they were all dressed in black and had their faces covered? They were carted into Hamburg on buses and trains. And then out again.
Exactly. The Klan dresses in white and covers their faces. These thugs dress in black and cover their faces. Same ideology — shut down (or worse) those who disagree.
Riesling – perhaps their dialects were different?
Yes, Autumn. You know people in Germany can tell right away where you’re from by the way you talk. What got me was that Angela Merkel actually said she couldn’t believe that people could cause so much havoc “in their own neighborhoods”. Didn’t she believe the citizens of Hamburg who said the rioters weren’t from there?
Mother Merkel is a tool – completely owned by the globalists. She gets her orders from her handlers – citizens be damned.
Merkel is a sane globalist. T rump is an insane globalist.
Globalism requires the abrogation of sovereignty. Globalists engage in sedition. Merkel is and Obama was engaged in importing the population to “fundamentally transform” their nations. Merkel is erasing Germany. Obama was erasing America.
Merkel is a radical, barren feminazi who has failed in her duty to perpetuate the population of Germany, making her pursuit of power for power’s sake an exercise in futility as eschewing childbirth is terminal, and she is a pure communist, indoctrinated and trained by communists in communist East Germany.
Obama is a pot-smoking, empty suit, imposter who is ineligible and who was illicitly ensconced by Globalists to import the population and erase America.
Riesling:
What has surprised me is the strong dislike towards Americans now being displayed in Germany.
My relatives are older and remember the “Rosinenbomber” during the Berlin Airlift. They also know the difference between an American occupying army and a Russian army.
Traveling in Germany feels like traveling in France in earlier years.
Steve, I really think the dislike of Americans is a way to keep their minds off of their own problems. The more they hate Trump, the less they have to think about Merkel.
Riesling, Always appreciate your local reports from Deutschland.
Thanks, Nick!
They not only injured police officers, they set cars and shops on fire, broke into shops and looted them and caused chaos in nice parts of Hamburg. Is that “free speech”?
Riesling, some freelance journalists advocating free speech posted videos on youtube of their experiences at the G20 meeting. According to these journalists, local store owners were alerting antifa members of their locations, so that antifa could go attack them. It is not surprising, if true, that antifa protestors were bused in from outside Germany, it is happening throughout the US, as well. My family has friends in Germany, some seem to downplay the growing discord in the country, while others bemoan the extreme changes occurring as a result of all the immigration. I wonder how the former can ignore the terrorism and the growing black bloc movement. Is it due to the extreme PC response in the country that occurred as a result of the Holocaust/WWII (as TIN discusses above)?
@Cape Cod : why did the shop owners want to have their own shops destroyed? – for the insurance?? I feel definite pressure here not to say anything against Angela Merkel and her party for fear of being called a Nazi. Also, she’s up for re-election in 3 weeks.
No, Riesling, I don’t mean the shop owners called the antifa to target their own shops, I meant the shop owners were suspected of calling antifa people to let them know where the journalists (who were documenting the violence) were located. Sorry for the confusion. Your self-censorship is similar to what I’ve heard elsewhere. It’s unfortunate, but I understand it.
@ Cape Cod: thanks for the clarification. I hadn’t heard that.
@ Cape Cod: thanks for the clarification. I hadn’t heard that. Also, the local news, NDR (government owned) had originally stated that the violence was started by the police. I follow a woman on Instagram who took a video out her window which showed that it was obviosly started by the “black block”, as they are called because they are dressed in black, and not the police.
Riesling, as in America, seems like you are going to have to rely on independent journalism to try to get to the truth.
Germany has its own unique history that compels the government to want to squelch dissent and any discussion of race, ethnicity or religion that upsets or offends anyone. Essentially, Germany is saying that they don’t trust their own citizens. They think that people can’t have robust and even disagreeable or patently offensive conversations without turning into Nazis. This generation of political leaders is still operating in the shadow of Hitler. They think they must restrict the freedom of expression and open their borders to people who hate them in order to show how liberal they are. I wish Merkel would retire and let a younger generation come in that is not so burdened by Germany’s past.
Germany’s past is its present. There is an evil aspect of German thought process. It is good that they outlaw free speech by Nazis.
If you are suggesting that there is something in the German psyche or DNA that drives them to totalitarian thought and actions, well, I just don’t believe that. The city of Cincinnati and its suburbs is comprised of 70% German-Americans. I lived there for a number of years and found the people to be very compassionate, responsible and civic-minded. They had a fund for people to contribute whatever they could to pay private school tuition for inner-city (black) children. I’ve never seen that anywhere else. They clearly understood that providing children with a quality education in Catholic schools in the earliest years would pay off in the future, and were willing to donate their own money towards that end. That is just one example, but overall I was very impressed with the German-American citizenry.
DC – re ” an evil aspect of German thought process” – evil exists in all cultures. Perhaps you should check out Stanley Milgram’s experiments on obedience to authority or Solomon Asch’s conformity experiments.
Part of a part education is believing you have discovered the whole. That movement misses three key truths. Fascism and the same may be said of subjectivism and objectivism is not restricted to any one kind, sort, or branch of a religious, secular, political, commercial, educational, racial, gender, based grouping. Used with a small ‘f’ it means gaining and maintaining complete control over everything with no exceptions using any and all means or methods available.
The second point is large F Fascism as a formal group is one that exhibits those traits. Chief among them in the last century plust are German and other Nazis, Italian Fascists, Russian, Chinese and today North Korean Communists, and ithe USA general media and educational system. Along with not a few religious organizations world wide though they are called Theocracys and number I believe two as a government.. Catholic Church and Muslims.
The third point is the genesis of this particular social deviation began with the French Revolution of the late 1700s and early 1800s as an application of the philosophical theories of Plato, some of he Dark Ages Philosophers, Hegel, Kant, Marx, Engels Hitler and Mussolini to name some of the originals.
The two types of Socialism commonly known as International and National Socialism along with a third from Western Europe called Progressive Socialism spent much of the 20th century fighting for supremacy within that system and that battle continues.
Woodrow Wilson viewed North America as his back yard, along with Frankling Roosevelt
Lenin viewed East Europe as his baliwick,
Messers Hitler and Mussolini Western Europe.
Mr. Mussolini as the Leader of the Italian Socialist Party disagreed with Mr. Lenin of the Russian Socialist Party on a few particulars as did Mr. Hitler of the
There were others primarily Mao Tse Dung of China but before him the Generals of the Japanese imperial Army. and a number of small fry but they all had one thing in common. Small ‘f’ fascism.
Although the term was invented by Benito Mussolini. it stemmed from as did Hitlers version from the same roots. Thus National Socialism is the direct offspring of International Socialism. Benito simply codified the terminology.
Hard Core or Benign the results are much the same.
Thus the antifa or anti fascist movement in exhibiting the exact traits that engendered their name and activities are no more nor any less fascists than those they seek to …..seek to what? Do they even know?
For the record the differences that really matter are largely economic. International posits We all own everything therefore your shirt and trousers are my shirt and trousers. National version allows some private ownership with very strict and all powerful control of the property owner. Shirt or farm or factory. We see that easily in the progressive version.
What we in the USA ended up with is a second revolution of the progressive fascism version but nonetheless a sociaist autocracy at odds wtih a representative constitutional republic of independent self governing citizens.
So while you are quibblng about differences which are a the best on the surface remember the only meaningful difference is the individual self governing citizen versus the fascist slave by one name or another.
There is no divine right of Kings in a society of classes or of a separate ruling class in the classless society. There is only the citizen versus the government. If the former is not responsible and does not control the latter they lose all freedoms. If the latter controls the former they control all rights.
Simple as that. And what of antifa? Ask the left. they are it’s tool. Being to the right of the LEFT does not make them any less a creature of the LEFT or the other extreme. That applies to another term as well. RINO and DINO. But they like think the center is the center of the LEFT.
They can sort that out it does not appeal to me.
But in our Representative Constitutional Republic the center The Constitution. All of it every word.
What??? Somebody in government finds Antifa just as bad as neo-Nazi hate groups??? Didn’t Trump say that, too??? FWIW, here are some excerpts from a good article on why Gary Cohn should be fired:
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Squeek, wasn’t Cohn brought in by Kushner? I doubt he’ll resign until after maximum damage is done. I’d bet Mnuchin (the other GS Bobbsey twin) ain’t going anywhere soon, either.
T rump’s dims fired T rumps nazis. What a deal.
Indeed, but the war machine keeps rolling on nonetheless. And the foreign policy front is screwed up beyond belief. Plus ca change, etc.
“…groups on the left can also be targeted by such actions.”
Voila! That’s precisely what President Trump said; that extremism and violence on both sides is wrong.
Looks like Trump is right again!
Both sides contributed to the confrontations, but only those of the right side drove a car into a crowd and killed someone and only those of the right side have views and protest in the name of concepts that go against the Constitution and are unAmerican. Trump and his ‘base’ conveniently leave that out. Yes the KKK, nazis, white supremacists, and other unAmerican hate groups are protected with the rights to spew their poison but they have a unique unAmerican, inhumane set of attributes that are fueled by anger, and moronic perspectives, somewhat like much of the ‘base’ that elected this genius that left that out.
issac – AntiFa and BLM are anti-Constitutionalists. Get a grip.
Paul
BLM doesn’t attach itself to doctrines of racial supremacy, just racial equality. The core beliefs of nazis, white supremacists, etc. in their names alone illustrate this. If you equate nazi and white supremacy, with lives matter, then perhaps you need some help with your meds as your grip doesn’t seem to be able to undo the child proof cap. Finish reading the whole thing. Finish the entire thought. Then finish your pablum.
issac – they are anti-Constitutionalists who have advocated and perpetrated violence. It is abhorrent that you would support them in any manner.
BLM doesn’t attach itself to doctrines of racial supremacy, just racial equality.
Yeaahhh riiigght! Wow issac, you need to get out more. Have you not seen how BLM treats those with the signs, All Lives Matter?
“BLM doesn’t attach itself to doctrines of racial supremacy,…”
The Constitution is color blind.
Blacks and browns caterwaul incessantly for superior rights such as “Affirmative Action Privilege.”
Black Lives Matter is racially biased FOR one color and AGAINST all other colors.
You and Black Lives Matter have lost this argument. Period.
You and Black Lives Matter are just as ridiculous and unconstitutional as “Affirmative Action Privilege.”
https://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/08/21/antifa-thug-attacks-black-lives-matter-member-in-dallas/ BLM and Antifa have different goals. I don’t support Antifa but do appreciate much of what BLM is trying to do.
Well good. Maybe try to see a little larger picture while you’re at it. Geographically and historically.
Given your earlier antifa/BLM video, what are you trying to say here? Are we supposed to interpret this video as an example of unnecessary use of force demonstrated against a counter-protestor?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyKfKV9Zt18
This video is old, but you can see the response of the antifa to police; 10 people were stabbed. Similar stabbings in an antifa riot in Austin. Since then, a police horse was attacked in Harrisburg, PA by a female antifa perp wielding a nail-studded flagpole. She later claimed on TV that the horse was racist! As the police were told to stand down in C’ville, and their absence would have been obvious to people on the streets, what do you think the Unite the Right protestors were expecting?
You have been doing better than this Issac, it’s sad to see you pull up your argument when it agrees with your emotions on an issue. Once again, we know that whole thing was far from “black and white,” with the truth stunningly hard to determine–on purpose I might add.
A ridiculous statement. Violence is violence. Steve Scalise was shot, and almost died, by a whackjob leftist redistributionist parasite liberal democrat. Crimailas must be arrested.
“…and only those of the right side have views and protest in the name of concepts that go against the Constitution and are unAmerican.”
I don’t find that anywhere in the Constitution. It appears to say, without qualification, freedom of thought, speech, belief, religion, press, assembly and every other conceivable natural and god-given right per the 9th amendment.
In my opinion, your dictatorial, communistic, redistributionist, anti-Constitution, anti-American statements should have landed you in prison long ago but you have the aforementioned freedoms and rights.
You amend the Constitution on the go.
Good for you.
You very much resemble the corrupt traitor, Chief Justice Roberts.
Remember when he arbitrarily commingled the definitions of the words “state” and “federal,” allowed a clear violation of the “commerce clause” called Obamacare and approved taxation by Congress that was NOT limited to General Welfare?
The Democrat shooting attack on the Congressional GOP has already been thrown down the Orwellian memory hole by the MSM.
Good for Germany!!!
Turley: Your views on free speech are an encouragement to anarchist. You are at that dangerous point in life where you are believing what you say about yourself.
Not at all. JT believes in freedom of speech. Let the anarchists say what they want, but if they engage in violence, punish the behavior, not the speech. That principle is embodied in the Constitution, and the Founders felt it was so important that they made it the FIRST Amendment.
Seconded. The antidote to bad speech is more speech, not repression of speech. That said, this article is about Germany’s response to antifa/black bloc actions at the Hamburg G20. Germany does not have the First Amendment, and their government is not obligated to act the way ours does. They are dealing with problems on multiple fronts, and I imagine suppressing domestic terrorism is high on their list of priorities.
I’m good with it.