News accounts quote multiple neighbors as saying that Roy Moore’s pursuit of young girls was “common knowledge” and “not a big secret” around Gadsden, Alabama. The accounts support the four women who have come forward to share their own accounts of Moore’s conduct when they were young teenage girls, including one who accuses Moore of molesting her at 14.
What is interesting is that most of these witnesses are on the record and not anonymous. Blake Usry, for example, has said that Moore’s creepy preoccupation with young girls was known for 30 years and that locals would talk about how surprising it was that the allegations had not been discovered by the media for so long.
The latest allegation is that Moore would regularly walk around the local mall to meet young girls. It is a familiar pattern to law enforcement that often warns that malls are the favorite locations of pedophiles and sexual predators. The mall opened in 1974 and was the popular hangout for teens.
Various women have come forward to support the account of Moore’s suspicious conduct. While in his 30s and district attorney, these sources say that he would regularly prowl the mall and flirt with young girls.
Jason Nelms says that he was told that the mall had a constant watch out for Moore as a potential danger to young girls. Likewise, Greg Legat who worked a music store near Sears in the mall said that an off-duty Gadsden police officer named J.D. Thomas asked him to keep an eye out for three people, pickpocket, a brawler, and Roy Moore.
As we previously discussed with regard to Moore’s threat of a defamation lawsuit, these allegations should be relatively to prove or disprove. If Moore was on a watch list at the mall, there should be a record or at least additional witnesses. If he was on that watch list, it would be a chilling notion that a man who was not allowed in a local mall could gain entry to the United States Senate.
93 thoughts on “Mall Menace? Moore Allegations Mount As GOP Tries To Force His Withdrawal”
I think you meant Moore to withdraw. Versus Sessions which is printed.
Haven’t heard much in the mainstream news about Menendez lately.
What’s there to hear? The jury is deadlocked.
“he was allegedly put on a watch list for the local mall to be kept away from young girls due to predatory behavior.” If that is true then he needs to drop out of the race and be investigated for any criminal wrongdoing. I also want to know if this behavior continued after he was married.
Again, if it turns out that all of the girls were of age in Alabama, albeit teenagers, then what he did might not be criminal, but would still reflect his character. It is really weird how all these shenanigans were going on but it never came up in any hotly contested election before.
Moore needs to pick his spiritual battles, and I’d say he should start with himself.
It is really weird how all these shenanigans were going on but it never came up in any hotly contested election before.
Because the allegations are spun, contrived, and fictional.
“Don’t Be So Quick To Expel Roy Moore from the Senate”
By JOSH MARSHALL Published NOVEMBER 15, 2017 12:39 PM
Right, so if you try to take away the choice made by voters in the state of Alabama, isn’t that also called disenfranchisement?
If Roy Moore is eventually elected, it is highly unlikely that they will refuse to seat him or move to expel him. They can talk about it, but they won’t do it. Nor should they.
JT, ya better put out something about impeaching HRC. You are losing your base. Their running out of …BUT….BUT….what about…….
The latest accuser’s stepson just denounced her as a liar on Twitter. The supposed 14-year-old has a yearbook passage written in two colors and very likely two handwritings just after the word “Roy” and before the word “Moore.”. And still another accuser worked for the Dems and is a supporter but that wasn’t worthy of mention in the Post article. This story has all the prurient interest of the UVA Rape Case and the sea-worthiness of the Titanic in winter. Get your popcorn ready ’cause yet another liberal yellow rag looks to be going down the primrose path like … well … a Rolling Stone. Can you say “Jackie”?
If the Trump dossier proved anything it’s that most people aren’t looking for anything other than what confirms their own beliefs. It’s intellectually lazy. We have people in this blog who are so tired of hearing about Moore that they just want him to go away.
At what point did we as a culture give up on the law as a means of defending the rights of everyone to one that supports lawfare against our political rivals? The thing that disgusts me the most is how lawfare has been normalized. It is the dominant trait among many on this blog and in society in general. Is this how republics die, by weakening the resolve of those that at one time believed the law was intended to promote justice and instead declare, well, if you can’t beat them join them?
Just trying to analyze the alleged facts and avoid the emotion.
Just trying to analyze the alleged facts and avoid the emotion.
It’s a sad reflection on society and this blog that you have to even make that statement.
“…the law was intended to promote justice”? What about “justice” for girls who were victimized by a man who reminded them that they won’t be believed because of his powerful position? What about the “justice” of respecting court orders issued by higher authorities that Moore flagrantly ignored? How can you speak of promoting justice in the same breath with the likes of Roy Moore? You buy into this Fox news bunk about Moore and Trump being victims. They aren’t.
It’s the nature of our system that victims alleging a crime do so within a specified period of time (for most cases) and present evidence that proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that the accused is guilty. Do you really want to live under a system of justice where anyone, at anytime can make an allegation against you and essentially convict you without the benefit of evidence or trial?
I don’t want Moore in the Senate because I don’t trust him. His responses to these allegations don’t reflect the character of what I believe should be in public office. If character was a jail-able offense, I’m not sure we’d have anyone left for public service.
Olly: you are confused. Criminal offenses are prosecuted by the State. The standard is “beyond a REASONABLE doubt”, not shadow of a doubt. There can be some degree of doubt. All doubt need not be eliminated for a criminal defendant to be convicted. A victim can file a civil claim, and there is a statute of limitations for both civil and criminal cases. None of Moore’s victims filed suit. He hasn’t been prosecuted by the State of Alabama, and likely wouldn’t have been even back then, as he told his victims. That doesn’t mean he didn’t do what is alleged nor that he shouldn’t be held accountable for his conduct. That his victims didn’t come forward sooner means little to me because of all the reasons I’ve written about previously. Maybe you’ve never had young, vulnerable girls in your family, and so maybe you don’t understand how sensitive they are about their bodies, about being photographed naked by strangers, about a GYN examination, especially an invasive one, and repeating facts about what was done to them and being questioned about how hard they fought off their attacker. This is an added layer of distress, and when one would be accusing the District Attorney at the time, there’s considerable doubt that the case would have been prosecuted. If it were prosecuted, how vigorously would his staff have gone after him? How vigorously would the defense go after the teenaged victims?
Natacha – most defense lawyers would not want to be seen beating up on a teen witness unless they had good cause. It causes ill will for their client.
What is perceived as “beating up” depends on the circumstances. By the time the case would go to trial, they’d be older. They’d be vigorously cross-examined. Their credibility and ability to recall facts would be challenged. Any little, tiny discrepancy in any statement they ever made would be exploited. They would indeed be asked what they did to fight him off, whether they told anyone, whether they ever told a lie, etc., Bear in mind Moore was the DA, duly elected. He already had an advantage. They would have lost, big time, assuming Moore’s deputies would have prosecuted or gotten a special prosecutor. That would have made their emotional distress even greater. Now, they’re being skewered for not going through this.
By the time the case would go to trial, they’d be older. They’d be vigorously cross-examined. Their credibility and ability to recall facts would be challenged. Any little, tiny discrepancy in any statement they ever made would be exploited. They would indeed be asked what they did to fight him off, whether they told anyone, whether they ever told a lie, etc.,
Ah, that’s way too messy. I say we spare the victims the horror of a trial and go straight for sentencing. No evidence necessary. Just an emotional plea and voila, the man that everyone now believes is a sexual predator is finally locked up. Justice served albeit 40 years late. Enjoy your banana republic.
Reasonable doubt, thank you for the correction.
The rest of your post, as emotionally compelling as it is, does not dismiss the importance of due process.
I am undecided about the accuser claims Re. Roy Moore, really, I AM UNDECIDED.
Q: Yes or no: Did Roy help or hurt his case when he said he only dated women after their mom gave him permission to do so? IMO any reply starting with other than a direct no/yes indicates unadulterated cowardice. You have stated your opinion on this case. Any reply lacking direct response means your entire post is of zero value.
Roy’s statement on Hannity’s show a few nights ago harmed his case immensely. Anyone of his age in question dating women for whom he requires mom’s agreement is utter and total fail, putrid, disgusting, and horrible. The man’s got the judgment of a dog in heat.
These Bible belt SBC types are some of the best and worst in America. Without their false doctrine that the modern pagan nation of Israel is OT Israel (Zionism, the opposite of Christianity), it’s likely the nation’s permanent state of illegal military excursions in the world would come to a screeching halt.
Then-Judaic managed Oxford published The Scofield Reference Bible (the first so-called “Reference” Bible), the first published work to introduce to the world this verse and wrong “interpretation:” “I shall bless those who bless thee, and I shall curse those who curse thee.” The Zionist spin here orders so-called “Christians” to give endless American blood, military weapons, and fight wars for modern Israel, and to kill anyone who threatens Israel.
Go ahead and test this with any SBC member. Ask them if they are familiar with the verse and what is its meaning. Ask them if it’s physically possible for the modern State of Israel to not exist? They would laugh. I asked fake Christian real-Zionist tool Fred Barnes directly “Who gives Israel the right to exist?,” to which he chuckled and said, “God!” This of course means that the USA literally depends on the continued existence of Israel to survive, the single greatest threat to the USA, not Russia nor N. Korea. This also flies in the face of G. Washington’s advice: “No permanent foreign entanglements.”
Proof that the Judaic-SBC interpretation is pure unadulterated crap: _od quoted this verse to Abraham before Isaac was born. Abraham begat Isaac who begat Jacob whose name _od later changed to Israel. Ask the next brain dead SBC member you meet to ‘splain exactly how _od could refer to a race of people in 2017 (who Zionists state “descended” rom Abraham, hahaha), at a time when Abraham had no children? And why exactly did _od “forget” to explain this future looking interpretation to Abraham when _od spoke the words to Abraham. Did _od intentionally want to confuse Abe? Why? To what end and purpose? (Crickets…..)
The record on Scofield confirms he was shill hired by then-Judaic managed Oxford to hoist their Zionist doctrine on the West. This was apparently the first ever Oxford published book by an “author” never prior published. Why, exactly? Especially considering Scofield was a convicted criminal, a scofflaw, a liar, and cheat, lacking formal schooling. He also deserted his wife and children. Yet Zionist Oxford, in their infinite wisdom, flew him to England to pay him to author his first ever Reference Bible. Please explain this, member Zionists who post here. Crickets.
It’s sad how often “Goy” live down to the low level of Judaic perception.
Seems you have a bit of an issue with all things Judaic.
There are a lot of frustrating aspects about this case, including the fact that there were no public accusations for 40 years and the allegedly forged or at least partially forged signed yearbook. I agree that this was politically motivated, but with so many accusations, there could be truth to it.
I think we are so close to the election that they should replace him with another GOP candidate. There is not enough time to either prove or disprove. The sheer volume of accusations both requires too much time to investigate and introduces concern in their pattern.
If it turns out to be fabricated political warfare, a coup attempt worth of a banana republic, then he should sue everyone. If it turns out that it was true, but was only made public for political purposes, then he armed them himself.
I’ve become so jaded that at this point I need a busload of nuns as eyewitnesses to believe anything. I’m really trying to wait for an investigation and get to the truth. I believe the timing so close to the election was deliberate.
He cannot be replaced on the ballot.
Don’t give the sharks what they want.
I haven’t heard Moore deny the writing is his or demand testing? It would be the easiest thing to check and be disproven.
Your wish was just granted!! But will Allred release the yearbook to the pros? Stay Tuned!
He’s welcome to sue and get the yearbook in discovery. Of course, he would have to submit to discovery under oath so what do you think the chances of that are?
In the spirit of a little fuller transparency, yes, Gibson’s company has provided professional sign language services for Democrats. She is also registered as a Republican (long-time) in Florida. The Doug Jones campaign says she is not working for their campaign. I’m not sure what is specifically meant by “and is a supporter”. This information is from Politifact.
What happens to females after a workout in the gym with Arnold Schwarenegger? As Trump would say, “it’s locker room talk”.
I think we’re scraping the bottom of the sexual assault/harassment barrel at this point. Are no other topics newsworthy anymore?
Hardly, Congress is next.
No sooner said than the Franken allegation pops up on my news feed. You seem quite prescient.
Did you just awake from your comma? If yes, please return.
Earth to idiot: the election was over a year ago.
If one peruses Mr. Usry and Mr. Legat Facebook likes, one could begin to question their stories and motives.
Mr. Legat, in an interview with CNN, said he “didn’t have an axe to grind with Moore”. Yeah right. Take a look at Mr. Legat’s Facebook likes and see if you think he is “neutral” on Moore’s election.
I do not want to hear any “more” about this dork.
This is Rorschach politics at its worse. The hysteria over Moore will continue to escalate all the way up to the election. Is it possible Moore began his sexual predator behavior only after starting his legal career? Is it reasonable to believe he has been a sexual predator for 40 years and no one has come forward with evidence of these accusations? Is it reasonable to believe his political opponents would conjure up a dossier to take him down? Essentially, if you want the inkblot to be a perv, it will be a perv. If you want it to be a Senator, then that’s what you’ll see.
You see the issue with Moore as being “hysteria” because more victims haven’t come forward? What is the usual number of victims of a sexual predator, anyway? Do you know, or are you just speaking out of your anal port? You want to believe that unknown and unnamed “political opponents” have conjured up this story to take him down?–based on what? The rantings of Judge Jeanine? OK, Olly, ignore the sex stuff. How about his misconduct as a judge? That’s not disputed. How can someone who doesn’t respect rulings of higher courts hope to serve the people of his state? It’s bad enough when non-lawyers don’t respect the law, but when a judge doesn’t respect the law, there’s no hope.
Natacha – if you are going to get rid of judges who disrespect the SC, you would have to wipe out much of the Ninth Circus.
Do you know, or are you just speaking out of your anal port?
If that’s where you are going to put your ear then that would be appropriate.
How can someone who doesn’t respect rulings of higher courts hope to serve the people of his state?
Did his previous professional history disqualify him to be a U.S. Senator? Depends on the degree of ignorance of the voters of Alabama now doesn’t it. The political class is chock full of progressives that do not respect the rule of law; so he would fit right in to that club.
Olly – I seem to remember that Aylsee Hastings was impeached and convicted as a federal judge and then elected to Congress.
D.A. or Mall Cop-a-feel?
I don’t know what the truth is interwoven within this imbroglio. But lecherous types in public office seemed in years past to garner a great amount of deference compared to ordinary citizens. Either he is a marauding skirt chaser or his accusers are opportunists. At least one side is certainly poisonous to today’s politics.
Polls go up when the pants go down. It’s unfortunate that drama such as this can’t be contained within shows like Jerry Springer.
At least it appears that the screaming ‘fake news! crowd is a little quieter of late. Amazing how conservative, republican, evilgelical, ‘Christians’ are so easy to convict Hillary of some pizzagate conspiracy, but taking their sweet time giving the same treatment to Roy ‘Candy Little Girl?’ Moore. At least Anthony Weiner is in jail for sexting underage girls, while a predator like Roy ‘Ten Commandments’ Moore is given a free pass by his God fearing cult followers. I can hear the Taliban now, ‘Hmmm, looks like abusing underage girls is just fine, many condone it in US!’ And, yes, Bill Clinton was/is a predator as well but he at least didn’t go after children. Anyone who supports Roy Moore should just remember, you are the company you keep, and in this case that’s not a good character enhancer.
Clinton was close friends with and frequently socialized with Epstein, who kept an entire harem of young, underage girls for his pals and their amusement. Plenty of young, underage girls with whom both Bill and Hickory “socialized”–don’t kid yourself. They have simply been silenced, in one way or another.
Google T rump and Epstein. A thirteen year old came forward. Of course she was lyin. All T rump’s accusers lie, right?
“I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy,” Trump said of Epstein during a 2002 interview with New York magazine. “He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.”
The charges that Moore is a sexual perv haven’t been proven, yet. For me it’s his statement that he considers the Bible to take precedence over the constitution. That disqualifies him.
Upvoting this comment.
There have been a number of things Moore has done that are fundamentally wrong as a representative of the government, and not discretional things, things he had to do as part of his official office.
That more than anything pushed me over the fence on agreeing he should not be eligible for senator.
Clinton was a known, ‘horn dog’ throughout his terms as Governor of Arkansas and rumors were many, many times the actual instances. That Clinton was and continued to be a ‘horn dog’ is a fact. There is no history of Clinton going after teenagers. That most, if not all, of the women were attracted to him is close to a given. That Clinton weaseled and fought tooth and nail to avoid owning up to his rampant libido is also a fact. So we have the leadership ego/libido, weaseling out, and sexually sinning all over the Oval Office.
Now with Moore, we have the leadership ego/libido run rampant, weaseling out defiantly, sexually sinning all over the mall, and targeting pubescent teenagers.
Clinton’s shame came to a head-no pun intended-near the end of a successful political career. Moore’s shame, having gone on for decades, is coming to light before he creeps into the Senate.
Put it all into a computer and keep ideological and political bias out of the equation and Moore is toast.
But, but, but, he has Bannon and a host of bible thumpers on his side, so you never know. This is the South.
The spooky part is that he runs and wins, or almost wins. The real question is what will Hollywood come up with to top this?
issac – Clinton beat conviction on impeachment and had the Democrats celebrate with him outside the Capitol. Roy Moore, just has accusations, no blue dress with the semen stain. Moore is in a far better position and is covered by the “Clinton effect”, thanks to the Democrats. Payback is a biatch.
Moron alert, PCS is pontificating. It is called consensual sex, try it some time if you can find someone who can suffer you.
YNOT – Clinton was accused of molestation, rape, etc. And, again, he was in a power position with his bodyguard backing him up. Hillary, of course, does not have clean hands, she was in charge of the ‘bimbo eruption’ squad. She knew exactly what was going on.
Ask Clinton’s son, Danny Williams if Bill’s shame has ended.
Despite virtually universal calls in Washington and the GOP for Sessions to withdraw
You meant Moore….
However, your Freudian slip is not far off
Sessions used to hold the seat
Trump cannot wait to get rid of Sessions
So if they can get Moore out Sessions can go take to seat to ostensibly to make sure it does not go to the Dems and Trump gets a new AG
So they have to find a way to discredit Moore and BOY HOWDY did he make that easy for them the dickhead
House of Cards ran a storyline with a similar theme a few seasons back but it was a VP and a Governor
babbazee – maybe House of Cards asked Spacey for technical advice on sexual harassment?
I read a report that Luther Strange’s campaign brought in investigators from DC and also used investigators in Alabama to investigate these “rumors” but could find no proof they were true…
Wow. That blows my theory. I assumed the GOP establishment funded the oppo research on Moore that uncovered this dirt, then after their man Strange did not win they tipped off WaPo – primarily to send a signal to anybody recruited by Bannon to run in next year’s primaries that McConnell intends to destroy them.
Then Marty Baron sent a couple of WaPo scribblers to Alabama to verify it and write it up.
Remember where you read that? Was it a credible source?
Scott, I actually think your theory is more likely than formermonk’s claim.
It’s the creepy man in the raincoat you have to watch out for. It is odd that Moore, who supposedly has a penchant for young women, would marry someone roughly his own age. This is all very suspicious. Personally, I cannot remember what I was doing in 1974 or what malls I went to, can you?
His wife is much younger. He was 38 and she was 24 when they married.
formermonk – there is a 10-year difference between my wife and myself. I see no problem with that. Women marry up, men marry down. Take a sociology course some time.
Paul, I’m surprised. I always assumed you were some lucky lady’s boy toy! 😉
TIN – one can only wish, but after a certain point reality sets in. 🙂
On average, women marry men 4 yrs older and equal to or higher than themselves on the socioeconomic ladder. In Alabama, Mrs. Moore is likely the equivalent of a trophy wife, as it were. He was a registered Dem when he married, ca. 1985. I can’t find any sources that indicate if the Moores were hyper-religious back then the way they appear to be now. If so, her parents likely wouldn’t have batted an eye at the age difference.
I’ve noticed with young professionals these days that it’s pretty much a lateral in terms of age and status. All of the young (20 & 30 something) male attorneys in my office have wives who are also professionals (attorneys or CPAs), and are someone whom they met in college and thus about the same age. Perhaps because of student loan debt and the cost of housing relative to income in desireable urban areas, it is no longer possible for a man to “marry down” and yet expect to achieve an upper middle-class life style. Marriages may be more traditional in terms of age differences with rural and/or blue collar workers….I don’t know. Of course, we will always have those who marry for money, as well as trophy wives, boy toys and gold diggers, but for the most part, I think there is a lot more age parity now, because the educational and economic status of men and women is much closer.
TIN, that’s exactly right. Once women entered the work force, and wages decreased, the phenomenon you’re describing started to take effect. Interesting sociological impacts of education and career choices in women vis a vis marriage partners, etc. Of course, women now will have a very tough time of it….
I think the rule for non-creepiness is, 1/2 your age plus seven.
The new prudery.
Any relationship between consenting adults is nobody’s business but the gossips’.
I definitely remember which mall I hung out at as a kid in 1974, because it was a small town, and like Gadsden, Alabama, there was only one mall. But the District Attorney wasn’t hanging out with us, ha ha; that definitely would have been noticed. And he wouldn’t have been re-elected!
West Point Graduate goes to Vietnam then returns to attend Law School and become a DA. Then hangs out at the mall? Makes no sense. I am not defending Moore but I am skeptical of these claims appearing in the month headed into an election.
What I’m suspicious about is that someone who was allegedly a widely known pervert who trolled the mall for young teens was nonetheless a Deputy D.A., a D.A., and then Chief Judge. If the police warned mall store employees to keep an eye on him, and if he was ultimately banned from the mall, why didn’t all of this come up when he was elected or appointed to District Attorney and Chief Judge? There are too many allegations at this point to think they are all lying, but nonetheless it all sounds very questionable. Is it the norm in Alabama for everyone in town to know that some prominent person is a major perv, but nobody says anything? Strange.
Silence about the bad behavior of powerful men is the norm. When Moore was the DA, it would have been down right dangerous to have gone public.
Justice Holmes, Best comment.
Congress has its own rules for dealing with sexual harassment and abuse:
The OOC requires an individual to wait at least 90 days from the alleged incident before the filing of a sexual harassment complaint. This includes requiring the complainant to undergo 30 days of mandatory counseling and 30 days of mandatory mediation between the employee and his or her employing office. Only if mediation is unsuccessful can the staff then pursue legal action.”
More at https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/11/14/house-takes-up-sexual-abuse-by-its-own/?utm_term=.329159df8bf2
Another point worth mentioning is that if the complaint is proved true, it is the taxpayers, not the perpetrator, that pays the victim who must sign an agreement to never reveal anything about the complaint,
Well, he was the Deputy DA and what stopped them from going to the DA? Was the DA scary, too?
When I was in the army there were women who were harassed. If you were permanent party (already passed basic training and AIT and now on a base where you are officially or permanently stationed) you felt empowered to report misconduct. However if you were new, in basic training or AIT, you would have to be crazy to report anybody to your superiors. You are reporting people to their friends . People they know. It is easy to see why someone would be reluctant to go to the DA about his deputy.
“Silence about the bad behavior of powerful men is the norm.”
Actually, this is 180 degrees of wrong. If your claim were true we wouldn’t be hearing about it now. Neither would we have heard anything about clinton in 1994 or today; or about H. Weinstien; or K. Spacey.
What’s amazing about you is that you’re a frigging law professor and you seem to think that rumor is probative.
Moore may be guilty as charged, or innocent. Who knows at this point.
Currently, the Democrats in the country are little more than a rabid, hysterical mob. They go out at night and howl at the sky over Trump’s election and have lowered themselves to the level of the people who cried “Witch!” back in the days of Salem and demanded the young women be hanged. They are so anxious to confirm their own personal biases and reinforce their mentally ill racial fantasies that they demand obviously innocent people like George Zimmerman be tried for murder for defending his own life.
Into that scenario, can you seriously believe that people wouldn’t lie in a very important election???
Even Joe “Gropey” Biden is getting in on the action and resurrecting that lying black sack of crap, Anita Hill, and saying how sorry he was about her. What a hoot! Particularly in light of:
Bald old squeek boy lives in da basement of Comet Pizza.
This is also wrong and the fact that JT is a law prof has nothing to do with it. This question in this forum isn’t whether Moore should be subject to legal liability, but whether he should sit in the US Senate. That is a question for the voters in Alabama to decide and the rest of the world (you, me, JTurley and every one else) can have an opinion about it. It doesn’t matter that the rumor is “probative,” it matters whether the alleged victims’ testimony is more credible than than Moore’s denial. If a voter likes Moore and doesn’t care whether he’s a rapist, then by all means he should vote for Moore. If a voter doesn’t like Moore, then he can vote against him even if he thinks he’s innocent. Most voters will probably decide on their own based on the credibility Moore and the alleged victims. For the record, most of the conservative pundits and politicians I’ve heard from think he should drop out.
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