Memphis Store Clerk Charged With Murder In Shooting Alleged Shoplifter

Anwar-Ghazali-and-Dorian-HarrisIn torts, we discussed the long-standing debate over the use of potentially lethal force to protect property.  The common law has long barred the use of lethal force to solely protect property given the value of a human life.  That issue appears at the heart of a first-degree murder case in Memphis where a store clerk followed a teenager out of a store after the teen allegedly stole a beer.  The clerk, Anwar Ghazali, 28, shot and killed Dorian Harris, 17.

We have previously discussed this issue of the use of force to protect property (here and here and here and here).

Common law cases often involve the use of snare guns to protect property since direct use of force often involve claims of self-defense rather than defense of property.   In famous cases like Bird v. Holbrook, 4 Bing. 628, 130 Eng. Rep. 911 (1825), courts have ruled that “[n]o man can do indirectly that which he is forbidden to do directly.” Not only are such devices viewed as immoral (because human life is more valuable than property), but dangerous because such devices cannot tell the difference between friend and foe. The case however also has been cited for the long-standing rule that no property is viewed as more valuable than a human life. That does not mean you cannot take steps to protect your property and a case of protection of property can become protection of self (with the right to use higher levels of force) when the suspect resists or attacks.

Ghazali never called police after shooting at the fleeing teen. It turns out that he hit him near the Top Stop Shop.  The next day the body was discovered. Ghazali was charged with first-degree murder.  In the arrest affidavit, Ghazali is quoted as saying “I think I shot him.”

The police spokesman stated what is often the dividing line between defense of self and defense of property: “We don’t want people to steal from businesses. We also don’t want people hunting suspects down and shooting them. If he’s not giving direct, imminent danger to you, leave it be. Call the cops. Let us figure it out.”

In this case, the alleged shoplifter was fleeing and not a threat to Ghazali.  The “shopkeeper’s privilege” recognized in most states include a right to hold an alleged shoplifter where there is a reasonable basis to suspect the person.  However, this privilege is only for a reasonable period of time in a reasonable manner.  It does not include the right to use lethal force without a claim of reasonable self-defense.

86 thoughts on “Memphis Store Clerk Charged With Murder In Shooting Alleged Shoplifter”

  1. Without passing a judgment on the merit of the shooting, or lack thereof, prosecutors in several states need to weigh the possibility of an acquittal and a finding of self-defense.

    In Washington State, if a defendant in an assault type of offense is found not guilty and a jury enters a finding of self-defense the state is mandated to reimburse the defendant for his legal costs. A trial for a first degree murder case is costly in terms of prosecution, but coupled with much larger legal expenses for a defense, especially if the defendant is represented by his personal counsel, budgetary constraints might fact or just as much as the efficacy of the charge.

  2. Oh, and speaking of dead black kids, how about the one where the White Lesbians, “Thelma and Louise” just killed 6 black kids???

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/03/30/05/4AAF4D0100000578-0-image-m-6_1522382773959.jpg

    California Highway Patrol officials say preliminary evidence shows the cliff crash that killed a lesbian couple from Washington state and their six adopted children may have been intentional.

    Capt. Greg Baarts with the CHP Northern Division says information pulled from the SUV’s software shows the vehicle was stopped at the highway pullout before it accelerated straight off the cliff.

    ‘While it has been documented that the car was traveling at 90 mph upon impact, it is not conclusive whatsoever,’ Baarts said.

    ‘We do have reason to believe, however, that the crash was intentional. This is all based on preliminary information.’

    Baarts says the electronic information combined with the lack of skid marks led officials to believe it was intentional.

    ‘Pure acceleration all the way,’ was how one spokesperson for the CHP described it, according to KGW-TV.

    A Mendocino County Sheriff’s Office spokesman says authorities believe at least one felony was committed but declined to specify.

    Five members of the Hart family were found dead.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5568725/Crash-killed-lesbian-couple-six-adopted-children-INTENTIONAL.html

    A whole lot more at the link!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    1. speaking of dead black kids…

      “The percentage of children living with their mother without a father present varied widely among race and origin groups in 2009, from 8 percent for Asian children to 50 percent for black children. Seventeen percent of non-Hispanic white children and 26 percent of Hispanic children also lived with their mother only.”

      https://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/children/cb11-117.html

      but lets not talk about black kids with absent fathers…..

      1. Remember the days when America had normal families? Two parents with multiple children (e.g. Professor J. Turley), extended family members living in the area, multiple generations under one roof….

        Then along came the 1960s, Feminazis, Roe v. Wade, and Bill n Hillary Clinton

        The long slog driving off a cliff captures the US predicament all too well

        “Bruce and Dana DeKalb, who lived next door to the family, said they called child welfare officials last week after becoming concerned that one of the children, Devonte Hart, had been coming to their house too often in the past week asking for food.

        Devonte made headlines in 2014 when a photo of him tearfully hugging a police officer in Portland during a Black Lives Matter rally went viral.

        The boy had told neighbors that his parents would keep food from him and his siblings as punishment. The DeKalbs said he asked them to leave food by the fence so his parents wouldn’t find out.

        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5556271/Three-kids-missing-California-crash-killed-parents-siblings.html

  3. He was found dead two days after the incident with a bullet wound to the thigh. Assuming the bullet is traced back to the store clerk, is there any possibility of an intervening cause of death? That’s what the defense attorney should be considering. We don’t know why didn’t use his cell phone to call for help, or knock on a door. Did he die instantly from a thigh wound? Or did he lay there for 2 days, slowly bleeding to death and nobody noticed him? Seems somewhat implausible…..

  4. MLK Jr had much to say about personal responsibiity. But why waste an opportunity to make a buck when it is easier to stoke racial tensions ala Congressional Black Caucus instead of let freedom ring?

    Martin Luther King: ‘We Can’t Keep On Blaming the White Man’” – WSJ
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/martin-luther-king-we-cant-keep-on-blaming-the-white-man-1522792580

    “Fifty years after his death, many pay lip service to his ideals, but far too few are following his example.”

    “Discussion of antisocial behavior in poor black communities, let alone the possibility that it plays a significant role in racial inequality, has become another casualty of the post-’60s era. King and other black leaders at the time spoke openly about the need for more-responsible behavior in poor black communities. After remarking on disproportionately high inner-city crime rates, King told a black congregation in St. Louis that “we’ve got to do something about our moral standards.” He added: “We know that there are many things wrong in the white world, but there are many things wrong in the black world too. We can’t keep on blaming the white man. There are things we must do for ourselves.”

    1. He was shot dead shoplifing a bottle of beer. You’re on the wrong thread.

  5. that is bad.
    but, it can turn into this when law and order breaks down
    as it often does here in america

    1. The homicide rate in Memphis is fairly high (about 20 per 100,000). That’d not odd for a core city, but Memphis isn’t a core city. The municipal boundaries encompass about 90% of the metropolitan settlement. It’s a city without suburbs. Still, the situation isn’t dire enough that the authorities are going to let it slide when someone’s shot dead over about $2 retail in merchandise. The store clerk’s going down. Would bet on a plea bargain to second degree murder or aggressive manslaughter.

  6. Hmmm. Here is a similar story, from England, where a 78 year old homeowner stabbed a burglar to death, and then got arrested!

    A pensioner has been arrested after a suspected burglar was killed during a violent tussle at his home. The 78-year-old was held on suspicion of murder after the 38-year-old died of his wounds in hospital in the early hours of Wednesday morning.

    Police said the struggle broke out after the pensioner found two men inside his home in South Park, Hither Green, south London shortly after midnight.

    In a statement Scotland Yard said: “At 00:45hrs on Wednesday, 4 April, police were called by a homeowner to reports of a burglary in progress at an address in South Park Crescent, Hither Green SE6, and a man injured.

    “The 78-year-old resident found two males inside the address. A struggle ensued between one of the males and the homeowner. The man, aged 37, sustained a stab wound to the upper body.”

    The home owner suffered bruising to his arms and his injuries are not life threatening.

    Police arrested him on suspicion of grievous bodily harm before then arresting him on suspicion of murder.

    He was taken to a south London police station where he remains at this time.

    In February alone there were 115 incidents of crime reported to police for the post code area covering South Park Crescent, including a number of burglaries close to the pensioner’s home and a number of cases of criminal damage, vehicle theft and sexual violence.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/04/suspected-burglar-dies-tussle-pensioner-78/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  7. It’s Memphis, which has long been under a stifling blue dome. i’m surprised the clerk’s not been charged with terrorism, given his name and probably background.

  8. Oh, and since there is little chance that Ghazali will get a commendation or medal from the City for popping a cap or two off in the thug, let me at least give him a celebratory Irish Poem!

    Plug and Play???
    An Irish Poem by Squeeky Fromm

    There once was a clerk name Ghazali!
    Who at a Beer Thief fired a volley!
    He felt pretty good
    About killing the hood!
    And he retrieved the beer can, by golly!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    1. He was shoplifting. There’s no indication from news reports he was a thug, just that he had sticky fingers. Very little has emerged about his family other than his grandmother is named Effie Peete and is about 54 or 55 years old. No one reported him missing for some reason. It has been determined that he was lying dead in the yard of a property next door for two days. The property holder said she heard the shot, but had seen no one in her yard dead or alive. It’s not clear who found him or what they were looking for when they did. It’s a reasonable guess that Effie Peete is the paternal side grandmother and that his sire is one of her sons, of whom there appear to be three.

      It’s also not clear whether he stole beer or wine cooler. He was shot not by the proprietor but by a store clerk some people in the local area didn’t much like. That clerk’s going down.

      1. It’s Memphis, aka Ratchet Town. Dorian was black, and an admitted thief, and if his record ever gets revealed, you find out that he is a thug. Nobody even knew he was missing for two days because he was a thug, and out on his own at the age of 17. Sooo, I am going with him being a thug until something contrary comes out.

        Will the clerk go down for this? Of course. Mainly because the thug was black, and everybody will want to pretend that Dorian Harris was just a wonderful person, and always had a smile on his face.

        Personally, I would not have shot him over a beer, but I don’t view his death as any sort of great loss. Just another Black Thug who bit the dust.

        Squeeky Fromm
        Girl Reporter

        1. I agree that Poor Old Ghazali is up Poop Creek without a paddle, legally speaking, but why would anyone mourn the loss of Dorian Harris??? It’s completely beyond me. About as dumb as crying over Trayvon Martin, or Michael Brown or Stephon Clark.

          Dorian Harris is just somebody who would end up with a rap sheet as long as your arm, leaving a wake of victims in his path. Mostly black victims, to boot.

          Squeeky Fromm
          Girl Reporter

    2. @Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter

      “I think there is a form of PTSD that comes from having to deal with our black friends of the hood sort.”

      “Oh, and since there is little chance that Ghazali will get a commendation or medal from the City for popping a cap or two off in the thug, let me at least give him a celebratory Irish Poem!”

      Yes, by all means, let’s have an authoritarian celebration of the loss of a young man’s life.

      Thanks for providing irrefutable confirmation, as if any were needed, of your virulently prejudiced ethnic animus. I hope that publicizing it here affords you and your similarly troubled sympathizers an at least temporary measure of relief from its self-degrading psychic burden.

      The only permanent relief you’re likely to get, however, will probably have to come from some serious psychotherapeutic intervention. For your sake and for that of everyone you know, I hope that comes sooner, rather than later, after some circumstance causes you to act out your own PTSD.

      1. There is no shortage of black thugs and shoplifters in the country. In fact, we have a surplus! Sooo many, that we have several million locked up, and the streets are still overflowing with them! Like I said to you earlier, I am truly sorry that you do not have any direct ongoing contact with the Black criminal element. I suspect if you did, you would become as jaded as I am about them.

        FWIW, Memphis is the most “black” major city in the country, and all the White people who can afford it, are skedaddling out of the city, to the suburbs. Sooo, there is plenty of affordable housing in the city! Why don’t you move there, and bring some “resources” to the community!

        Of course, there is a bit of a crime problem. . .

        Squeeky Fromm
        Girl Reporter

        1. FWIW, Memphis is the most “black” major city in the country, and all the White people who can afford it, are skedaddling out of the city, to the suburbs.

          The City of Memphis’ population has hardly changed in the last 16 years. The population of incorporated suburbs has increased by about 103,000 in the last 16 years, a number which accounts for about 11% of the population of the whole set of municipalities right now. The municipalities have, collectively grown in population by about 0.7% per annum since 2000, somewhat slower than the national mean of 0.85% per year. The population distribution in the area is just what you’d expect with pure sprawl: natural increase and net in-migration are manifest in suburban development on the periphery rather than efforts to make areas of established settlement denser. There isn’t much indication of flight from the core at all.

          1. Hmmm.

            Even as Memphis has grown larger through annexing surrounding communities, its population has steadily dwindled due to outmigration to the surrounding suburbs. Inner-city struggles will become more pronounced if this region’s wealthiest tax base continues that outward pattern, national experts say.

            In 1950, Memphis was packed with 7,780 people per square mile. That figure is more like 1,915 people per square mile now, according to data from a 2014 study on the Memphis Metro economy completed by The Brookings Institute.

            Job opportunities have followed the outward migration of Memphis’ wealth to the suburbs.

            https://www.memphisdailynews.com/news/2016/apr/22/memphis-shrinking-population-cause-for-concern/

            Squeeky Fromm
            Girl Reporter

            1. The annexations in 2000-05 added another 30,000 residents. The ones in 2012-13 added an additional 8,000. That amounts to about 6% of the city’s population.

              1. Sooo, the annexations are the main reason the population increased! Because they probably added to the city, the places the White Folks escaped to! Because the majority black populations can’t afford crap. Because 70+% of the youth are born into single mother families, and are therefore mostly BROKE. Financially and morally.

                The latest statistics, compiled yearly by Delavega, show Memphis has the highest poverty and child poverty rate in the country among larger, metropolitan cities.

                Poverty rates for 2016 increased for every race in Memphis.

                The rates are higher for African-Americans at 32.3%. A look at median household incomes reveals blacks families earn roughly half than that of their white counterparts.

                The 2016 poverty rate is 26.9 % and the child poverty rate is even worse at 44.7 % in Memphis.

                “What that means and I want you to think about it, is that when you see a child walking down the street, when you see a child, there`s a 50-50 chance, there is yes, no, that that child is living in poverty.”

                Delavega says we won’t solve child poverty without helping families, particularly mothers and it starts with jobs.

                “Raising the minimum wage is an essential first step in eliminating poverty. Poor families have poor children.”

                http://wreg.com/2017/10/06/memphis-has-highest-poverty-child-poverty-rate-in-nation/

                Raise the minimum wage??? Or, in the alternative, the Black Whores could try a little thingy called MARRIAGE before popping out their heathen offspring!

                Squeeky Fromm
                Girl Reporter

  9. I wouldn’t have shot the thug over a beer, but I don’t blame Poor Old Anwar Ghazali for plugging him. One less thug in the hood. No telling how much stress and trauma Ghazali has had to go through working in a poor black neighborhood. In constant fear for his life, and his livelihood.

    I think there is a form of PTSD that comes from having to deal with our black friends of the hood sort. I think that is why some cops snap and just shoot them sometimes. Like Michael Slager, the cop in South Carolina.

    Plus, there is the cultural aspect of this. I presume that Ghazali comes from a culture which thinks thieves should have their hand cut off. Sooo, is it racists and xenophobic of us to demand that Ghazali accept our culture over his own.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  10. It is not right to chase someone outside and shoot him as he is fleeing. The only exception I can think of is if he was threatening to go hurt someone.

    The shopkeeper was wrong. The penalty for theft isn’t death. If he chased him down then he was not in fear of his life. Not only did he chase him outside and shoot him, but he failed to call the police. I do not know if the victim would have survived if he had received medical care.

    He went to such extraordinary lengths that I wonder if this was a family business. Most clerks do not take theft so personally. Perhaps they had been robbed over and over and over again. Businesses close when they get robbed too often. Many small shops cannot afford to hire a full time security guard. That is why so many businesses just close and leave high crime neighborhoods. It’s a no win situation. This clerk also put himself in a no win situation.

    1. I feel bad for the teenager’s mother. Up until that day, she may have been hoping that her child would turn his life around. Now he never will. It’s dangerous to commit crime. You just never know how a stranger is going to react. Her son should not have been killed over shoplifting, and he should not have been left to die alone, not to be discovered until the next day.

    1. @mespo727272

      Are these representative of “Squeeky’s” “facts and conclusions” that you’d have me dispute?

      “I wouldn’t have shot the thug over a beer, but I don’t blame Poor Old Anwar Ghazali for plugging him. One less thug in the hood.”

      “I agree that Poor Old Ghazali is up Poop Creek without a paddle, legally speaking, but why would anyone mourn the loss of Dorian Harris??? It’s completely beyond me. About as dumb as crying over Trayvon Martin, or Michael Brown or Stephon Clark.”

      “Dorian Harris is just somebody who would end up with a rap sheet as long as your arm, leaving a wake of victims in his path. Mostly black victims, to boot.”

      “Dorian was black, and an admitted thief, and if his record ever gets revealed, you (sic) find out that he is a thug. Nobody even knew he was missing for two days because he was a thug, and out on his own at the age of 17. Sooo, I am going with him being a thug until something contrary comes out.”

      If so, I’m somewhat at a loss for words.

      1. No, yours are examples of her portrayals which conceded you don’t like. The facts and conclusions were laid out specifically in my first comment. See above. That’s the part that needs rebutting if you want to rebut her argument. It’s the substance of the argument that matters not the style of delivery.

        1. The ‘substance’ includes ““Dorian Harris is just somebody who would end up with a rap sheet as long as your arm, leaving a wake of victims in his path. Mostly black victims, to boot.”” and repeated references to him as a ‘thug’. These are not factual statements. This is Squeaky’s imagination at work.

          1. No, this is Squeeky playing the odds! Ask yourself what are the things we know for sure about Harris:

            1. He walked into a store, and strolled out with a beer/wine cooler right in front of a clerk and at least one witness;

            2. He was shot on Thursday night, but was not missed at all until his body was discovered on Saturday.

            From that, I extrapolate that he had no problem committing a crime (shoplifting) right in front of a witness, He was not wearing a mask. That tells me this wasn’t Harris’s first rodeo, uh er, blatant overt theft. Therefore, I think he was already into a life of crime.

            From the fact that he was not missed, I extrapolate that he was probably already out on his own at the age of 17. This is not uncommon in the black community, when kids often get booted out at about age 14-15, or when they start to consume more than the food stamps attributable to them. Sometimes they go to their grandmothers, or Aunts, or just stay with friends and hustle for what they get. Particularly boys, because girls can simply get knocked up and get on welfare, thus bringing in more money into the household.

            From the things said about him, conspicuously missing are any “He wanted to be a pilot when he grew up!” or “He was sooo anxious to go to college and become a French teacher!”, And there does not seem to be any High School friends saying “Oh, we are going to miss Poor Dorian in Biology class Monday! because he dindu nuffin and was always smiling!” all of which leads me to think he was probably a drop out.

            So yeah, I think Harris was already a thug, and probably would have ended up being a career criminal. Is it a guess? Sure. But one I think is well-grounded. Plus, it’s Memphis, and he was a young black man without a steady job.

            Squeeky Fromm
            Girl Reporter

            1. No, this is Squeeky playing the odds!

              No, you’re not, because if you were doing that you wouldn’t make categorical statements. Fraud.

              1. From The Cambridge English Dictionary: categorical, adj. without any doubt or possibility of being changed

                From Squeeky, right above: So yeah, I think Harris was already a thug, and probably would have ended up being a career criminal. Is it a guess? Sure. But one I think is well-grounded.

                Therefore, I can categorically say that you were categorically wrong about me making categorical statements.

                Squeeky Fromm
                Categorical Girl Reporter

            2. @Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter April 4, 2018 at 5:05 PM

              “So yeah, I think Harris was already a thug, and probably would have ended up being a career criminal. Is it a guess? Sure. But one I think is well-grounded.”

              It may be “well-grounded” in the malodorous mental swamp of unregenerate bigotry, but on the dry ground of reason, it’s just a pathetically prejudiced and wishful speculation.

            1. @Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter April 4, 2018 at 5:09 PM
              “Here is one pic, I found. I look for more to come out:”

              What’s your point here, “Squeeky”? How dark his skin is? How “thuggish” he looks? That he has questionable taste in jewelry? That he should have been out looking for a regular job instead of posing for a picture?

              I ask, because what’s apparently obvious to you in your fevered ethnocentric imaginings, isn’t evident to those of us not afflicted by them.

          2. @Nutchacha is insufferable April 4, 2018 at 3:52 PM
            “The ‘substance’ includes ““Dorian Harris is just somebody who would end up with a rap sheet as long as your arm, leaving a wake of victims in his path. Mostly black victims, to boot.”” and repeated references to him as a ‘thug’. These are not factual statements. This is Squeaky’s imagination at work.”

            Ah, yes, but this is an African American she’s imagining about, and just as with her many imaginings about Stephon Clark, the more denigrating of the victims and their families those imaginings are, the more objective they are.

            Don’t you see, her defenders say, this is not evidence of virulent prejudice, these denigrating imaginings prove how objective she is about “those people” about whom, as individuals, she is willfully and woefully ignorant.

            But for what it’s worth, I’ll suggest that the sheer blatancy of her prejudicial loathing makes her, potentially, an educational poster child for the distorted cognition that hag-rides people suffering from the same, but less pronounced, cognitive disorder. Extreme manifestations of phenomena make the less extreme ones more visible.

            1. My cognitive disorder is called “seeing Reality without rose-colored glasses, pretense, or unreasonable bias.” Which, is a rare enough trait nowadays to be a “disorder.”

              However, I invite you to visit New Orleans, Memphis, Baltimore, or Detroit without that disorder. Go jogging thru the Inner City! With your phone, a full wallet, and jewelry! Park your car there! Heck, buy a house there! Go on! Don’t be prejudiced like me, who would stay out of such places unless I had body armor, a semi-automatic assault rifle, with plenty of ammo, perhaps some kind of armored vehicle, and air support. if you get lost, just ask the helpful colored folks there! I am sure they will take an interest in you!

              Squeeky Fromm
              Girl Reporter

            1. Actually, the root word for thug, is thag, which means a swindler or thief. “Thug” covers a lot of territory, most if it in bad neighborhoods.

              Squeeky Fromm
              Girl Reporter

              PS: For real. I am not kidding about thag.

        2. @mespo727272
          “No, yours are examples of her portrayals which conceded you don’t like. The facts and conclusions were laid out specifically in my first comment. See above. That’s the part that needs rebutting if you want to rebut her argument. It’s the substance of the argument that matters not the style of delivery.”

          I see. So you think President Trump should ask John Brennan to state his argument or just come out and say what he really thinks, and that Trump should get over his concern about this influential member of the intelligence community’s being arrayed against him, as he can’t really tell where Brennan’s coming from by reading his tweet, because that’s just Brennan’s “style of delivery” and Trump has no idea what Brennan’s argument is?

          @JohnBrennan
          8:00 AM – Mar 17, 2018
          “When the full extent of your venality, moral turpitude, and political corruption becomes known, you will take your rightful place as a disgraced demagogue in the dustbin of history. You may scapegoat Andy McCabe, but you will not destroy America…America will triumph over you. ”
          https://
          twitter.com/realdonaldtrum
          p/status/974859881827258369

          If you were representing Anwar Ghazli, I gather that you’d want to say something like, “Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, I hope you can overlook my client’s particular style of delivery of his objection to the decedent’s behavior on the night in question, and look into his heart, which told him this fact: “This punk is trying to steal a beer!”

          “Yes, I know that he shot someone who was running away from him, and he didn’t call the police about it, or summon medical aid for someone he thought he’d shot, but that is just another piece of his personal style of delivering his objection to the fact of the theft. Now we could debate endlessly the intensity and appropriateness of my client’s interpretation of and response to the fact of the theft, but let us instead keep our eye on the prize, the fact that a can of beer was illicitly transferred from its rightful owner, a corporate person, to an unauthorized person, the decedent.

          Yes, let’s keep our focus on the really, truly important main fact of this case, which is that the decedent took without paying for it, a whole can of beer, perhaps even a premium brand. Now, unless you can rebut that central fact, you must acquit my client, who, notwithstanding a somewhat firm style of objection delivery, simply did what he felt in his heart was what the fact required. Thank you.”

          1. Huh??? You are conflating (or is it confusing) a written argument on a comment section, with how somebody addresses a jury???

            That is pretty stupid. Will you criticize next him for commenting here while wearing his pajamas, and not having shaved his face??? Because one would never wear their pajamas to court, and be un-shaved, while addressing the jury. It is even probable the Judge would find one in contempt.

            Surely, you can make a more cogent argument than that. Right???

            Squeeky Fromm
            Girl Reporter

            PS: Are you sober??? Because if you aren’t that would be a good excuse.

            1. @Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter April 4, 2018 at 6:39 PM
              “Huh??? You are conflating (or is it confusing) a written argument on a comment section, with how somebody addresses a jury???”

              It’s called analogical reasoning, “Squeeky.” It involves applying a given proposition to two sets of agreed upon facts or circumstances as a way of testing the validity of the proposition.

              I sincerely have no idea what pajamas and whisker stubble have to do with anything under discussion, so I can’t respond to that part of your comment,

              As to my sobriety when I wrote the comment in question, I was sober as a judge finding a lawyer in contempt. 🙂

              1. It’s called analogical reasoning, “Squeeky.” It involves applying a given proposition to two sets of agreed upon facts or circumstances as a way of testing the validity of the proposition.

                No, it’s called “being stupid.” I already told you why your analogy was dumb.

                Squeeky Fromm
                Girl Reporter

                1. @Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter April 6, 2018 at 9:58 AM
                  ” ‘It’s called analogical reasoning, “Squeeky.” It involves applying a given proposition to two sets of agreed upon facts or circumstances as a way of testing the validity of the proposition.’

                  “No, it’s called ‘being stupid.’ I already told you why your analogy was dumb.”

                  As is so often the case, your emotively resorting to a derogatory comment, rather than thinking about something, says much more about you than about the subjects of your prejudicial criticism.

                  Consequently, I’m not that surprised that the saliency of the analogy was lost on you.

          2. I think your advice to Trump over Brennan’s ranting tweet is spot on. If I represented the shopkeeper, I’d show he was in reasonable fear for his safety when this kid turned on him and let the prosecution prove me wrong. He’d probably get manslaughter with 3-5 years in the pokey. While the kid likely didn’t deserve to get shot, I’m not shedding tears over him.

            1. @mespo727272 April 4, 2018 at 9:07 PM
              “If I represented the shopkeeper, I’d show he was in reasonable fear for his safety when this kid turned on him and let the prosecution prove me wrong.”

              Do you mean something like, “As I ran outside with my gun, the thief wheeled around and with his thumb on the opening of the beer bottle, after shaking it vigorously, aimed it toward me, putting me in fear for my safety.” ?

              1. Ken Rogers:
                No, as in as he turned, reached into his pocket and said “now raghead, I’ll do to you what I should have done back in the store and blow your brains out.” I fired my gun to scare him off and then ran and I don’t know what happened to him after that. I should have called the cops but I panicked and thought he just got away.

                If that is the scenario, how’d you judge the case. Reasonable doubt?

                1. @mespo727272 April 5, 2018 at 7:31 AM

                  If I were a juror, your scenario wouldn’t cut it for me. If he saw Harris walk out with a beer he didn’t pay for, all he had to do was pick up the phone and call the police, who would have fairly easily apprehended Harris, and called an ambulance. Instead, he went outside with a gun and fired multiple shots at Harris as he was walking (running?) away. Ghazali then reportedly returned to the store and told a witness, “I think I shot him.” That’s hardly consistent with his being in fear for his safety. And he still didn’t call the police, notwithstanding thinking he’d shot Harris, resulting in his dying of his gunshot wound.

                  Ghazli’s attorney will no doubt explain to him that we don’t have Sharia law in the US and suggest he plead to 2nd degree murder, manslaughter, negligent homicide, or whatever the DA will agree to. The attorney with the even easier job, I think, will be the one who represents Harris’ family when they sue Ghazali and the owner of the store.

                  April 02, 2018 08:45 AM
                  Updated April 04, 2018 04:51 PM
                  “It was late, a little after 10 p.m., when 17-year-old Dorian Harris walked into the Top Stop Shop convenience store in Memphis.
                  The teen swiped a beer from the store without paying and walked out, according to police records obtained by WREG. That’s when the clerk on duty, 28-year-old Anwar Ghazali, pulled out a gun from his right side, according to police.

                  “Ghazali exited the store and chased after Harris before firing several shots at the teen, who was still walking away, according to police. Police say Ghazali walked back to the store and told a witness ‘I think I shot him.” He never called 911.” [Emphasis added]

                  Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/article207665119.html#storylink=cpy

                  1. Correction to my last comment: if Ghazali had initially called 911, there would have been no need for an ambulance. There certainly was a need to call 9/11 after Ghazali thought he’d shot Harris, but he didn’t, even then.

  11. Muslim immigrant v black shoplifter. The intersectional SJW goofballs will go crazy trying to pick sides on this one. I predict they’ll back the shoplifter. Criminals are generally favored over people trying to earn an honest living.

  12. Is the shooter here a citizen? Was he here legally? Is he going to be shipped back somewhere, someday?

  13. I had a neighbor who wired up his motorcycle with an electric cord which was plugged in. A thief came along and cut the chain which secured the motorcycle to a post. When he cut the chain he cut into the wire mesh which was electrified. The juice was full, and ready for use, and the thief was almost dead the next morning when another neighbor spotted him lying on the ground. The electro neighbor– known thereafter as Electro George– was not charged with any crime.

    1. He would likely have been found liable in a tort case. The use of deadly force in defense of unoccupied property is typically considered neither reasonable nor justified.

        1. Oh, I’m sorry. Your post said he was almost dead. I’ll not take you so seriously next time.

        2. Acromion — Your understanding of matters electrical is shocking. Bad, that is. Voltage measures the electromotive force. Current is how much flows, measured in Amperes.

          Ordinarily household circuits cannot deliver lethal currents. Ordinarily.

    2. I know of someone whose house was broken into repeatedly. He discovered they had removed the putty around one of the windows, which is why all the windows and doors remained locked. He caught the thief by wiring a grate to a car battery. He heard a scream in the night, and found the thief, dazed. He wrote “thief” across his forehead in silver nitrate. Do not target an engineer. They think outside the box.

      This happened many years ago. He probably would have been sued if it happened today.

      As long as it doesn’t kill or permanently harm anyone, creative traps to catch a thief are fine.

  14. Deadly force is, in my opinion, never justified when attempting to stop property theft.

  15. I am not an attorney, but will ask – Does a charge of first degree murder denote pre-meditation?

    Are there details missing from this story?

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