Most Americans rightfully view Sen. John McCain as a genuine war hero and American icon. That view is not shared by President Donald Trump’s supporters, it would appear. Kelly Sadler, a special assistant to the presidend, is under fire for telling staff that they should laugh off McCain’s opposition to Gina Haspel as CIA director over her record of torture because his opinion “doesn’t matter” since “he’s dying anyway.” On Fox Business, Thomas McInerney, a former Fox News military analyst, rebuked McCain by saying torture clearly “worked for John” and that is why is calling “Songbird John” for cracking under torture.
Sen. Lindsey Graham responded by saying that “no one is laughing in the Senate.”
McCain, 81, is suffering from incurable brain cancer. His wife issued a statement that was short and lethal for Sadler (who later called to apologize):
Cindy McCain
@cindymccain
@kellysadler45 May I remind you my husband has a family, 7 children and 5 grandchildren.
McInerney’s comments to Charles Payne has led him to be barred from any further appearances on Fox and Payne has apologized.
I have long shared McCain’s view of waterboarding and I do not support the Haspel nomination on that basis, including her destruction of tapes when investigations began into the torture program (To his credit, Trump at least is honest and refers to waterboarding as torture, but insists that he supports the use of torture). However, this is a more fundamental problem of civility and decency. The sheer hatred and anger often vented in our public debate is chilling. People no longer listen to others or care about how their words can be hurtful or hateful. We are losing not just our collective demeanor but our decency as a nation in these divisive political times.
the Vietnam war haunts us as does the looming spectre of JFK’s murder.
the CIA excesses prior to the Church committee and the CIA excesses since 9/11 are fabric of same cloth
Congress is emasculated as the Jimmy Traff. said in his last speech
and it remains so to this day
the Vietnam war haunts us as does the looming spectre of JFK’s murder.
The Kennedy Assassination ‘haunts; a four or five-digit collection of hobbyists, many of whom are quite hopeless for reasons which have nothing to do with events in American history.
McCain, neocon, war monger even, don’t like him.
But he was right about this. And he he spoke well about Gina. She should not be confirmed. I support Trump but she is a bad choice.
The staffer that said the remark is a fool and should be fired.
John Kiriakou good editorial
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/i-went-to-prison-for-disclosing-the-cias-torture-gina-haspel-helped-cover-it-up/2018/03/15/9507884e-27f8-11e8-874b-d517e912f125_story.html?utm_term=.91080a1b6aa9
God bless Ray McGovern who showed up and protested. Another true CIA man that opposed this bad nominee.
Great article. Kiriakou should receive a pardon.
@Karen S May 11, 2018 at 9:23 PM
“Great article. Kiriakou should receive a pardon.”
He certainly should, but it’s unlikely to come from the current POTUS, who’s said that “Waterboarding’s fine, but it’s not nearly tough enough.”
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=trump+on+waterboarding+video&view=detail&mid=9BB98BEFB310AB672EAD9BB98BEFB310AB672EAD&FORM=VIRE
Kiriakou’s treatment was even worse than Hugh Thompson’s, after the latter put his observation helicopter between William Calley’s death squad and the surviving villagers of My Lai.
“[Congressman Mendel] Rivers publicly stated that he felt Thompson was the only soldier at My Lai who should be punished (for turning his weapons on fellow American troops) and unsuccessfully attempted to have him court-martialed.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Thompson_Jr.
It took 30 years for Thompson’s heroism to be officially recognized. Let’s hope it takes much less time than that in Kiriakou’s case.
I note a lot of people’s hesitation on the use of waterboarding, but I wonder how many would stand up right now and say they wouldn’t waterboard a suspect that was in the position to provide information preventing 9/11. The best knowledge we have today is that 3 people were waterboarded.
Here is an article on Kamala Harris’ viewpoint that plays politics with American lives..
The Tortured Logic of Kamala Harris By Daniel John Sobieski
The question of whether torture is immoral does not have quite the yes or no answer that California Senator and posturing Democratic presidential wannabe Kamala Harris implied it had during the questioning of CIA nominee Gina Haspel. Classic torture is the intentional infliction of excruciating pain and permanent injury. Merely pouring water down the nostrils of a terrorist does not meet that classic definition.
And yes, who is doing it matters. Brutalizing an American prisoner of war to get information to be used to kill more Americans is immoral. Making a Khalim Sheik Muhammed think you might actually drown him, which you have absolutely no intention of doing, to save American lives by disclosing future plans and plots is not an immoral purpose.
Extracting needed information by such methods from the likes of a Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the man who decapitated Daniel Pearl before turning passenger jets into manned cruise missiles, is not an immoral choice What about the choices the murderous and soulless Mohammed, who Kamala Harris turned into a victim, forced his genuine victims to make? As far as we know, Sen. Harris, no terrorists were ever forced to choose death by incineration or jumping out of a 100-story building.
One wonders what Harris would recommend if a terrorist planted a nuke set to go off in an hour in Washington, D.C. Would we tell him (or her): “You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be held against you. You have the right to an attorney. Now, please, tell us where you planted the nuke.” In that situation few Americans would be unwilling to attach the battery cables to the prisoner’s privates. Sometimes the end does justify the means.
We need to distinguish between what is torture and what is not. Sawing off Nicholas Berg’s head was torture. Saddam’s routine practice of putting dissidents into tree shredders feet first was torture. Forcing prisoners to listen to Christina Aguilera is not.
Waterboarding Khalid Sheik Mohammed and his two companions saved lives, as documented by CIA and Senate intelligence investigators in 2014:
In particular, the CIA said that al-Qaeda captives who broke under interrogation disclosed the name of bin Laden’s courier, Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti. By tracking this individual, the CIA was able to locate bin Laden’s own hideout in the Pakistani town of Abbottabad.
A statement from the CIA said that information “obtained from detainees played a role, in combination with other streams of intelligence, in finding Osama bin Laden”.
In particular “detainees in CIA custody” gave up intelligence that “fundamentally changed” the CIA’s assessment of Abu Ahmed’s “potential importance to our hunt for bin Laden”.
One wonders what Harris thinks about Obama’s reliance on Predator drone strikes to deal with terrorists, rather than capturing them to gather intelligence. Was that program favored by the Nobel Peace Prize winner immoral? The silence from the Harrises of the world spoke volumes:
There are lots of hypocrisies surrounding the recently released executive summary of the Senate Intelligence Committee report on the CIA’s detention and interrogation program. But they pale in comparison to the current Democratic silence about President Barack Obama’s policy of targeted drone assassinations….
How is assassinating a suspected terrorist — and anyone unfortunate enough to be in his general vicinity — with a drone missile morally or legally different from waterboarding a confessed terrorist at Guantanamo Bay? At least the waterboarded suspect survives the ordeal.
The Senate Intelligence Committee report failed to disprove the CIA’s contention that only three detainees were waterboarded. A small number of detainees were subject to sleep disturbance or excessive temperatures. In contrast, drone strikes ordered by Obama may have assassinated thousands.
Fighting terrorism is different when a Republican president is doing it. Democratic presidents are tough. Republican presidents and their nominees are cruel and immoral. Fighting terrorism is a nasty business and the results and methods must be effective We may never use such techniques again but then we may have to.
Harris does not appreciate the fact that but for the grace of God and the heroes of Flight 93 there might not be a U.S. Senate for her to pontificate in. And but for enhanced interrogation techniques many more would have fallen victim to terrorist evil, including some of her constituents.
“I do not support the Haspel nomination on that basis, including her destruction of tapes when investigations began into the torture program ”
Wasn’t Haspel directly under Brennan? If so then I would like to see what Turley has to say about Brennan
Turley’s constant lamentations about every trivial affair in the Trump administration while so many important decisions are being made are torture to my ears.
Allan, do you think Professor Turley is ‘less’ than American for focusing on Trump? That’s what it sounds like here. You’re suggesting that a Law Professor whose blog is all about analyzing legal issue should steer clear of legal issues surrounding Trump.
Peter writes: “Allan, do you think Professor Turley is ‘less’ than American for focusing on Trump? That’s what it sounds like here. ”
You feel that way because you have an inability to read and tunnel vision. I have often praised Turley even when I disagree with him. My present complaint of Turley has to do with his constant lamenting about minor Trump problems many of which that do not exist while forgetting about everything else.
The real criminal activity has been in the DOJ, FBI in particular, Obama, Clinton, the IRS etc. In this case, I questioned his views on Brennan since Brennan was Haspel’s immediate superior. What did he say in the past about Brennan? Shucks, If NYC were in jeopardy of another 9/11 I would waterboard any terrorist who could prevent that destruction. Maybe you wouldn’t, maybe Turley wouldn’t but I would want to save American lives. Not only that but in training some of our own forces undergo waterboarding. I always wonder about people who will protect terrorists at the expense of American children, women, and men.
I don’t think he offers good advice to Trump and I don’t think he has the requisite experience of a criminal lawyer as NII has mentioned.
@Allan May 11, 2018 at 5:42 PM
“ ‘I do not support the Haspel nomination on that basis, including her destruction of tapes when investigations began into the torture program ‘
“Wasn’t Haspel directly under Brennan? If so then I would like to see what Turley has to say about Brennan
Turley’s constant lamentations about every trivial affair in the Trump administration while so many important decisions are being made are torture to my ear.”
Allan, if the nomination of Gina Haspel as CIA Director is for you a “trivial affair,” then you have some decidedly skewed priorities.
Have you read any of the letters regarding her fitness by former CIA officers who recognize the damage done by the CIA’s torture program to the reputations of the CIA and of the United States ?
Or is it that if torture’s good enough for Donald J. Trump, it’s good enough for you, and so you don’t need to bother yourself with the “lamentations” of critics of extreme sadomasochism?
Ken, Our difference of opinion lies not on the value of torture for the sake of torture, but whether or not you or I would approve of waterboarding an individual who has information that would prevent the 9/11 destruction.
It might sicken me to do so, but I would protect American lives. Apparently, you would not.
FOX NEWS USING NOVEL ARGUMENT:
“NO, OUR LIES WEREN’T EXTREME AND OUTRAGEOUS”
RESPONSE IS TO LAWSUIT FILED BY PARENTS OF SETH RICH
In March, the parents of Seth Rich sued Fox News, alleging intentional infliction of emotional distress, among other wrongs. “They published, republished, and publicized the sham story—which they knew would be covered again and again, and republished, here and around the world—painting Joel and Mary’s son as a criminal and a traitor to the United States,” reads the lawsuit.
This week, Fox News hit back. To prevail in an emotional-distress claim, plaintiffs in New York have to prove, among other things, that the conduct in question is “extreme and outrageous.” Not the case here, claims lawyer Kevin Baine of Williams & Connolly LLP. “Even accepting as true the allegation that the Fox News article was a ‘sham,’…publication of a knowingly or recklessly false and defamatory statement of fact is neither extreme nor outrageous as a matter of New York law,” notes the defendants’ motion for dismissal.
Here, the Fox News defense veers into precedent, particularly Snyder v. Phelps. In that particular case, Albert Snyder sued Fred Phelps, founder of the Westboro Baptist Church, and church parishioners for their actions in picketing the funeral of his son, Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, who was killed in the line of duty in Iraq. Near the funeral service in Westminster, Md., the Westboro folks — famous for such protests — carried signs at the saying things such as, “God Hates the USA/Thank God for 9/11,” “Thank God for Dead Soldiers,” “Pope in Hell,” “Priests Rape Boys,” “God Hates Fags,” “You’re Going to Hell” and “God Hates You.” Intentional infliction of emotional distress was among the tort claims advanced by Snyder, who was “unable to separate the thought of his dead son from his thoughts of Westboro’s picketing, and that he often becomes tearful, angry, and physically ill when he thinks about it,” according to a court document.
The case had a long path through the legal system. A federal jury awarded Snyder a total of nearly $11 million in damages, though an appeals court agreed with Westboro that the signs were protected by the First Amendment. “The court reviewed the picket signs and concluded that Westboro’s statements were entitled to First Amendment protection because those statements were on matters of public concern, were not provably false, and were expressed solely through hyperbolic rhetoric,” reads a summary of the ruling.
The Supreme Court also fell on the side of free expression. “While these messages may fall short of refined social or political commentary, the issues they highlight—the political and moral conduct of the United States and its citizens, the fate of our Nation, homosexuality in the military, and scandals involving the Catholic clergy—are matters of public import,” wrote Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. in the court’s 2011 opinion.
Lawyers for Fox News found a parallel with the Rich case. Since the Westboro protesters “addressed a matter of public concern, liability could not be imposed simply because the jury deemed the content of these messages ‘outrageous,’” argues the Fox News motion. By the same token, the Seth Rich story — whatever you think about its integrity — addresses a public matter.
The Fox News motion continues:
Although Plaintiffs assert that the Fox News article caused them pain, other readers might well consider their son to be a hero. Far from condemning Seth Rich for the purported leak, the Fox News article portrayed him as a whistleblower who released the DNC emails to expose that “top party officials conspired to stop Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont from becoming the party’s presidential nominee.”…Emphasizing the point, the article contained a photo of Rich in an American flag ensemble above the cutline: “Rich was fiercely patriotic, say family members.”…That readers could take markedly different views of Rich’s alleged leak underscores that Plaintiffs cannot satisfy the outrageousness element as a matter of law.
Remember, this is a legal document whose purpose is to get a client out of a jam. Yet take heed of the argument at hand. Seth Rich comes off as a hero to the Fox News faithful for betraying his employer and colleagues! Who would have predicted that Fox News’s penchant for bamboozling its audience would one day serve to buttress a clever instance of legal craft?
Edited from: “Fox News Says It’s Reporting In The Seth Rich Conspiracy Story Wasn’t Extreme and Outrageous”
By Eric Wemple.
Today’s WASHINGTON POST
They don’t have a cause of action. Why not ask yourself who is financing this frivolous lawsuit and why?
Why are Seth Rich’s parents bringing this suit? Obviously they feel totally violated by Fox’s irresponsible reporting.
They don’t have a cause of action. They’re straw plaintiffs for someone else. Who would that be?
“Straw Plaintiffs” in a suit involving their slain son? That’s a stretch!
They are straw plaintiffs, but actual grievers.
Peter, this is a frivolous lawsuit. It’s impossible to believe the lawyer representing them is on the level. Either they’re being conned or they’re fronting for the person paying the bills.
Fox News pushed a totally baseless story concerning their son’s murder. And you assert the Rich’s have ‘no justification to sue’..??
Because of Fox News’ baseless story the Rich’s have been contacted by numerous conspiracy theorists; most of whom are idiots and lunatics. And you claim that wouldn’t stress grieving parents..?? How totally insensitive of you! Like the Rich’s should be ‘good sports’ about these lies..?? Like they shouldn’t mind having idiots contact them..??
You’re reaction to this matter perfectly illustrates what the Professor writes about here. Fox News in not only irresponsible but has greatly dumbed-down America.
Earlier this week I read of a Vegan Chef in Brooklyn who shares the same name as a Parkland massacre survivor. Because that survivor upset the NRA our Vegan Chef in Brooklyn has been inundated with hate mail. Most of which is coming from a lunatic fringe.
In a nation of 315 million, a certain percentage of people have paranoid delusions concerning the larger world. For this reason news editors must be responsible. Stories alleging big conspiracies must be thoroughly vetted when aired on cable networks with “News” in their names.
Seth Rich was murdered at 5 AM on Sunday morning; having walked home from weekend socials common to 20-somethings. Sadly Rich’s neighborhood was still a work in progress. Not completely gentrified for young professionals. As a 20-something with student deb,t Rich didn’t have the income for a safer neighborhood.
My neighborhood, here in L.A., is no safer that hour. ‘I’ could wind up dead walking home at 5 AM. That’s simply the nature of densely populated cities. Washington D.C. where Rich was murdered, is one America’s 5 biggest metro areas.
So my question would be, “Did Fox News not address the true variables of Rich’s death?” All those circumstance should have been reported in Fox’s coverage of Rich’s murder.
No clue why you fancy this is relevant.
Peter, the stories about Rich aren’t baseless and even if they were, his parents have no cause of action. If his parents are being harassed by particular individuals, they can file complaints contra those individuals. They have no cause of action contra news agencies.
I have no clue how you got the idea that because you despise Fox, their reporting constitutes tortious conduct. That’s a puerile way of seeing the world around you.
re: “Seth Rich comes off as a hero to the Fox News faithful for betraying his employer and colleagues!”
Seth Rich comes across as a person of integrity to indies – he revealed the deviousness of the DNC and how they screwed Sanders. Assassinated as a warning to other potential whistleblowers.
If Seth Rich was a whistleblower, then Seth Rich was assassinated.
Given that Seth Rich was assassinated,
It supposedly follows that Seth Rich was a whistleblower.
Except that that is a logical fallacy known as affirming the consequent.
If Seth Rich was a whistleblower, then Seth Rich was assassinated.
Given that Seth Rich was not a whistleblower,
It supposedly follows that Seth Rich was not assassinated.
Except that that, too, is a logical fallacy known as denying the antecedent.
If Seth Rich was a whistleblower, then Seth Rich was assassinated.
Given that Seth Rich was a whistleblower,
It might follow by modus ponens that Seth Rich was assassinated.
Except that there are plenty of whistleblowers who have not been assassinated.
If Seth Rich was a whistleblower, then Seth Rich was assassinated.
Given that Seth Rich was not assassinated,
It might follow by modus tollens that Seth Rich was not a whistleblower.
Except that there are people who have been assassinated who were not whistleblowers.
So, since the valid forms of the argument are both incomplete and consistent with the invalid forms of the argument, there is no logical necessity connecting the antecedent to the consequent. And that’s the same as saying that there is no necessary connection between the death of Seth Rich and the publication of the DNC emails by WIkileaks. The theory is merely possible, and only so if one ignores the fact that Seth Rich was found alive and talking to police and paramedics at the scene of his supposed assassination at the hands of an assassin presumably too incompetent to confirm his kill and to stage the scene as a robbery to allay suspicion.
Once again, for the umpteenth time, let Seth Rich rest in peace.
Once again, for the umpteenth time, let Seth Rich rest in peace.
You deserve to be irritated, and if asking questions about this man’s murder irritates you, it’s all good.
As muggings go, this one was very strange, and that’s enough to keep asking questions until the DC police quit stonewalling.
Annie/Inga – Seth Rich or someone in his position downloaded the information and leaked it. It was not a hack. The suit is to protect the DNC and Hillary Clinton, Inc. This suit has nothing to do with Seth Rich.
I didn’t start this off-topic sub-thread, but it’s too important an issue to ignore, now that it’s been brought up.
@Late4Dinner May 12, 2018 at 7:00 AM
If Seth Rich
“The theory [that Rich was killed for leaking DNC emails to WikiLeaks] is merely possible, and only so if one ignores the fact that Seth Rich was found alive and talking to police and paramedics at the scene of his supposed assassination at the hands of an assassin presumably too incompetent to confirm his kill and to stage the scene as a robbery to allay suspicion.
“Once again, for the umpteenth time, let Seth Rich rest in peace.”
You were doing great until you argue that if he were shot for whistleblowing, he’d have been dead at the scene. Many attempted assassinations have been botched, including Ronald Reagan’s.
Can you muster the objectivity to consider the evidence of the testimony of the surgical resident who says he successfully treated Rich for his non-life-threatening wounds, but was afterward blocked from following up on him in the recovery room?
http://www.investmentwatchblog.com/seth-rich-public-incident-report-actual-document-answers-my-questions-except-one/
Can you also be objective enough to consider Wikileaks’ unprecedented reward offer regarding Rich?
http://www.theamericanmirror.com/flashback-wikileaks-offered-20000-reward-seth-rich-tips/
The answers to those questions, among others that have been raised, should help determine whether it’s Seth Rich or some other party that you’d like to see “rest in peace.”
Apropos Sarah Palin – McStain’s running mate who he threw under the bus in his latest hagiography about how wonderful he is – I was definitely not a fan, but I gotta give her major kudos for supporting Julian Assange.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-05-11/sarah-palin-speaks-out-julian-assange-after-ecuadorian-embassy-cuts-phone-calls
@Autumn May 11, 2018 at 3:05 PM
“Apropos Sarah Palin – McStain’s running mate who he threw under the bus in his latest hagiography about how wonderful he is – I was definitely not a fan, but I gotta give her major kudos for supporting Julian Assange.”
Good for her. I’m pleasantly surprised, especially in view of her own history with Wikileaks. Compare the wisdom of her remarks on the public service of Assange’s journalism with the Erdoganian pronouncements of Mike Pompeo, on the same subject.
Thanks for calling attention to what she said.
Trump is the most despicable public figure I’ve ever seen. What a poisonous, toxic, and vicious human being he is. And his toadies are right there with him.
Memo to Peter Hill:
The President doesn’t bear any responsibility for this sort of thing. This person is who she is, Natacha is who she is, Jill is who she is, and Autumn is who she is for reasons that have nothing to do with anything but their own disordered psyches.
You’re right, Nutchacha, Fox News is responsible for Trump.
You’re completely addled by the notion that the world would be great if there were no political opposition in broadcasting. Pretty transparent of you.
What we need are more conservative outlets that will do rigorous investigative reporting and fewer that peddle conspiracy theories to their low information viewers. Fox has some good reporters, apparently, but it does most of its damage by its crazy evening programming.
What we need are more conservative outlets that will do rigorous investigative reporting and fewer that peddle conspiracy theories to their low information viewers.
‘Investigative reporters’ were always shady operators (see Seymour Hersch). In any case, news organizations haven’t the budgets to employ them anymore. You’re upset that there is commentary on television wherein the opposition is heard. Just click on CNN and you can have all the liberal bilge you want.
Sy Hersh is a hell of an investigative reporter actually, i disagree on this point
He is nothing of the kind. See assessments of his work by Garry Wills, Fred I Greenstein, Michael Ledeen, and Kenneth Timmerman. See also assessments by Martin Peretz of events covered by Hersch in which Peretz was a participant. Sloppy and disreputable.
All ‘investigative reporters’ are suspicious characters. When you’ve got no scandal, you’ve got no book.
“All ‘investigative reporters’ are suspicious characters.” -so says the insufferable “SOT”
What a bunch of hogwash.
Excellent article on McCain that debunks the hero myth
“Few politicians have so actively, or successfully, crafted their own myth of greatness. In McCain’s version of his life, he is a prodigal son who, steeled by his brutal internment in Vietnam, learned to put “country first.” Remade by the Keating Five scandal that nearly wrecked his career, the story goes, McCain re-emerged as a “reformer” and a “maverick,” righteously eschewing anything that “might even tangentially be construed as a less than proper use of my office.”
It’s a myth McCain has cultivated throughout his decades in Washington.”
John McCain: Make-Believe Maverick
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/make-believe-maverick-20081016
McCain has tons of faults but he was right Gina should not be confirmed
As many others have said, enough with the McCain deathbed drama already. So an assistant made an off-handed comment during a closed-door meeting. Who leaked it?
McCain has also said that he regrets choosing Sarah Palin as his running mate in 2012. What decent man delivers an insulting gut punch like that to the person he chose to be on the ticket with him? Can you imagine how exciting a McCain-Lieberman ticket would have been to voters? Uh, no.
McCain has also allegedly said he doesn’t want Trump at his funeral. How petty and small of him. And is anyone talking about how McCain’s aggressive brain cancer and treatment is affecting his judgment and brain function? They call it chemo-brain for a reason.
Let’s hear more about McCain’s role in shopping around the dirty dossier that he says he was ‘duty-bound’ to give to Comey at the FBI. Why was McCain the only Senator to be given a copy of it? There’s a whole lot more to find out about McCain’s role in all of it and I don’t happen to believe it was a noble one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiMRIVgB1Cc
McShame is a traitor.
McShame, let’s get real. You’re a construct. No More Mr. Nice Guy. Unveil the charlatan. McShame, “Mr. Obamacare,” has not earned and does not deserve the artificial deference he has received for decades.
A father and a grandfather who were naval admirals were the only reason McShame was ever allowed in a cockpit. A scoundrel’s failure to follow procedures caused a series of “accidents,” a shipboard fire and the downing of his plane in Hanoi.
WaPo –
“I crashed a plane in Corpus Christi Bay one Saturday morning. The engine quit while I was practicing landings…I took a few painkillers and hit the sack to rest my aching back for a few hours….I was out carousing, injured back and all, later that evening.”
–John McCain, “Faith of My Fathers.”
Faith of My Fathers, “I did not enjoy the reputation of a serious pilot or an up-and-coming junior officer.”
“His record as a midshipman at the U.S. Naval Academy was dismal. He piled up demerits left and right for breaking the rules, and barely passed his schoolwork, graduating 894th in a class of 899.”
Who cares about McCain? The Left now loves him because he supports everything they love: Islam, Communists, and Nazis. The RINO McCain is, in effect, just another IslamoCommunazi.
But McCain sold out America long ago and is personally a lowlife as well. When McCain was a Lieutenant Commander in the U.S. Navy and while on the deck and in his plane on the carrier U.S.S. Forrestal he managed to screw up procedures (officially denied because McCain’s father was top military brass and, accordingly, covered up). McCain earned the nickname “hot dog” for his attention-getting trick of doing a “wet start” up of his jet.
McCain’s stunt and aftermath caused the death of 134 sailors and seriously injure (blow off arms legs, cause blindness and burns to another 161 sailors) and took the ship off the battle line for extensive repairs. Any other Navy pilot causing this type of death and destruction the Navy would have raped him and he would probably still be in the brig. Why not McCain? Well, first with many powerful connections this “little infraction” was covered up by the Navy (our most politically involved/connected service by the way).
You see his grandfather was a famous FOUR STAR Navy admiral and his dad was at the time of the incident was a powerful Navy FOUR STAR admiral and McCain graduated from the Navy Academy. So the old boy Navy tradition cover his ass network went into high gear immediately; and make no mistake, it does exist and it did for him.
So when McCain was shot down and captured allegedly he, due to his father’s high rank the Communists were so impressed that McCain was offered up BY THE COMMUNISTS to be returned to the U.S. to show some type of recognition of his importance as the son of an active duty very powerful and influential U.S. Navy four-star admiral (and he was). And then the fairy tale continues that McCain himself turned down the early release while still under the care of a communist doctor for his injuries so he could remain with his fellow prisoners for years and be tortured–yeah, right!
Ralph,
Because of other issues I haven’t the time recently to post.
But I do like you’re term, IslamoCommuNazi. LOL:)
“May 11, 2018 at 1:37 PM
Who cares about McCain? The Left now loves him because he supports everything they love: Islam, Communists, and Nazis. The RINO McCain is, in effect, just another IslamoCommunazi. ”
As an aside, Infowars/Alex Jones have offerded up a $100,000 bucks to people like Jonathan Turley that have publicly Slandered him & his outfit to prove their case. AKA Alex says there are Mars bases with Slave Kids there or some such words to that effect.
BTW: I’m with Prof Turley at resisting anyone promoting GW Bush/Cheney’s John Yoo’s Tortured Memo endorsing torture, inculding Trump. Trump’s Wrong on this one!
and McCain’s daddy helped squash the USS Liberty investigation
nonetheless McCain was right about bloody Gina
the torture scheme was bad, horrible, did not yield actionable intelligence and damaged American reputation and interests badly. Gina also destroyed evidence. really really bad. fire her dont promote her
and McCain’s daddy helped squash the USS Liberty investigation
Another fantasist weighs in for everyone’s edification.
@Oky1 May 11, 2018 at 6:24 PM
“Ralph, Because of other issues I haven’t the time recently to post.
“But I do like you’re [sic] term, IslamoCommuNazi. LOL:) ”
It’s OK, I guess, but it doesn’t include the sine qua non abstract epithets “leftist” and “scum,” so I think not a few commenters here would really prefer “LeftistIslamoCommuNaziScum.
I know I would.
In my comment at 1:49 PM yesterday I neglected to close an italicization. It should have read, re Ralph’s IslamoCommunazi label, “It’s OK, I guess, but it doesn’t include the sine qua non abstract epithets ‘leftist’ and ‘scum,’ so I think not a few commenters here would really prefer ‘LeftistIslamoCommuNaziScum.’
“I know I would.”
Jon: you said: “…this is a more fundamental problem of civility and decency”. I disagree with your dismissal of such outrageous conduct as mere incivility and lack of decency, which the statements are, but they are symptoms of something much worse, and that should concern every American. These statements are proof of an underlying lack of patriotism, pathological arrogance and egotism. Those are the reasons Trump wanted to be President, and why he pulled al the stops, including getting Russians to help him.
No one with the name “Trump” ever stooped so low as to serve in this country’s military. I cringe every time a brave member of the service has to salute that repulsive excuse for a human being. Trump had the gall to mock John McCain because he got captured by the Viet Cong, as if he had some choice in the matter or as though he did something wrong that resulted in his capture. He proudly served this country. Regardless of whether the US involvement in Viet Nam was right or wrong, or whether there was a declared war, McCain stepped up and served. He was captured and was tortured, all in the name of the United States. At minimum, he deserves not to be called names and mocked. He deserves much more, including respect and admiration. Trump and his entire plastic family are all cowards, liars, colluders and thieves. Maybe not Melania as to being a liar, colluder and thief. She’s just a purchased accessory. None of them is patriotic or deserving of respect, however.
No one with the name “Trump” ever stooped so low as to serve in this country’s military.
Fred Trump’s parents were German immigrants. Fred Trump was born in 1905 and his brother John in 1907. Both were too young for World War I. Both had dependent children at the time military conscription was instituted in September 1940, so were excused for that reason until the fall of 1943. Fred Trump was in 1943 too old to be conscripted and his brother quite near the upper age limit for induction (which varied between 36 and 38 during the war). Most men from the 1905 and 1907 cohorts were not in uniform at that time. John Trump, Jr was 15 at the end of the Korean War and 26 at the beginning of the VietNam War so would not have been in uniform during either. (All of those subject to conscription between 1947 and 1973 entered the service by age 26 or were excused). Fred Trump Jr was, like his cousin John, born in 1938 and by reason of his age not a candidate for wartime service. The service record of Robert Trump (b. 1948) isn’t a matter of public record. However, he did have a high lottery number (#245), so wasn’t subject to conscription.
Most of us can appreciate the grossness of you of all people complaining so and so did not enlist in the military.
The Trumps are selfish, egotistical swine. Perhaps it’s genetic. Regardless of their ages at various times when there were wars or conflicts, they could have served. There doesn’t need to be a war for one to enter the service. My father, who was too young for WWI and would have been too old for WWII, was in the National Guard. Members of my family, on both sides, have served since the Revolutionary War, including the Civil War. My aunt (a WWII nurse) and my uncle, WWII and Korea, are buried together in Arlington National Cemetery.
What I cannot understand is how anyone can support such crass, repulsive people as the Trumps.
The Trumps are selfish, egotistical swine.
Really? What do you know of Fred Trump, John Trump Sr, John Trump Jr, Fred Trump Jr, Robert Trump, Fred Trump III, Thomas Trump? Next-to-nothing. They’re private citizens.
Regardless of their ages at various times when there were wars or conflicts, they could have served.
You have no knowledge of what was in their medical files. Just nearsightedness would have been sufficient to disqualify any one of them. That aside, about 1% of the male population was in the armed services during the inter-war period. It doesn’t surprise me you’d refer to 99% of the male population as ‘selfish egotistical swine’. It wouldn’t surprise me even if I didn’t wager your babble ab out your father wasn’t a mix of mendacity and hypocrisy.
Oh, btw, Dr. John Trump Sr. was awarded a decoration by King George VI for his work on radar during the war.
You will say, literally, anything to defend this trash known as Trump. You will make up excuses to defend them and their indefensible arrogance, lack of altruism, egotism and lack of leadership or other redeeming qualities. As my father would say: “you have a screw or two loose”. As to the “decoration”, from what I know about the Trumps and their egotism, he probably either lied about his alleged contribution, stole the idea from someone else or bought the accolade.
What’s of interest about you and Jill is how there is absolutely nothing of value in the cumulative sum of your remarks. Just baseless animadversions and displays of your emotional selves. The sheer relentless ugliness of the two of you is quite a phenomenon. You project that ugliness on people who are normal range.
I don’t need to project negative characteristics on Trump. Any sentient being can observe for themselves the pathological need for praise and attention, taking credit for anything and everything, endless lying, primarily about things that pertain to him and his adulation, like the size of the inaugural audience, the arrogance, insensitivity, disrespect for his wife, disrespect for veterans, lack of qualification to serve as President (members of his cabinet have called him “idiot” and “moron”), misogyny, racism, praise for White Supremacists, and the list goes on. Nothing about Trump falls in the “normal range”, except his intelligence (average at best). He is not a “very stable genius”, master negotiator, or any of the other self-praise titles he has bestowed on himself. He is an unfortunate chapter in American history. He needs to go.
And we get yet another evasion while displaying more of your warm and wonderful personality.
Natatcha writes: “my father would say: “you have a screw or two loose””
Your father was right. You do.
Natacha thinks Trump lacks the quality of leadership. So you think Obama’s brand of “leading from behind” was actually what anyone would call “leadership”?
Honey, Obama lied about what he really believes, how he was raised, who is close associates were, what he meant by ‘fundamentally transforming’ America, etc…all for political expediency. I’d rather have a POTUS who may lie about his crowd size, but who shows us exactly who he is (I’m no angel) and who does what he says he’s gonna do.
Natacha is tearing into Dr. John Trump, then an engineer at MIT, accusing him of fraud. She’d never have heard of him had I not mentioned him. “Natacha thinks” is something that never happens.
Right, and Natacha also said, “Nothing about Trump falls in the “normal range””….as if this is a bad thing? Do we want a mere “normal” person to be the leader of the free world? I think not.
Leadership is saying you will move the embassy to Jerusalem and then doing it. Leadership is saying you will create jobs and then doing it. Leadership is saying you will take US out of the TPP and the Paris Accord and then doing it. Leadership is saying you will take us out of the bad Iran deal and then doing it. Leadership is getting 3 American hostages released before any peace talks take place with NK…and then capturing 5 of the “most wanted” ISIS terrorist leaders all in the same week…instead of Obama’s way of ‘leading from behind’ where he released 5 top Taliban generals in exchange for one deserter named Bergdal who was bizarrely celebrated in a Rose Garden ceremony. There’s another word for that and it’s not leadership.
whats this got to do with Gina the torture supervisor being elevated to CIA?
Here i agree with the left wing democrats who oppose her’
and yet you never Trumpers are so spiteful, when i smell your words i want to puke
John McStain and Lyndsey Graham are the two biggest war mongering MIC sycophants likely to have walked the earth. For that they can go to hell, the sooner the better. Satan is torn over this. On the one hand he can’t wait to enjoy their personal company. OTOH, he might prefer McStain and Graham to roam the earth spreading more misery, decay, blood letting, and orphaned children.
Look no further than McStain for the reason that the human race perceives the US as the single greatest threat to world peace, safety, and security.
McStain’s US Navy Admiral father personally guaranteed that Israel got away scot free after intentionally murdering innocent active US Navy sailors aboard the USS Liberty.
McStain’s personal history is the perfect corollary to the carnage he leaves behind across the globe. Even his defenders do not and can not deny McStain’s lust for sex, alcohol, and partying: https://www.truthorfiction.com/getting-know-real-john-mccain-burma-davis-posey/
The morning after McStain publicly picked Palin as his running mate, Michael Savage completely kissed off McStain, saying that Palin was absolute proof McStain did not want to be POTUS. Why would he leave his Senate gig promoting wars for his MIC masters for a lifetime, open borders, and socialized medicine, in exchange for a measly four to eight year reign of terror as POTUS?
Someone else wants to use the dayroom computer. Time for your thioridizine.
You have a working knowledge of medications for mentally ill people. I think I might know why.
It’s pretty clear why “Nut…” spends so much time, here.
“Glenn Greenwald
@ggreenwald
Abusing & exploiting mental health diagnoses to pathologize political dissent has a long, ugly history. Medically diagnosing someone from afar (“he’s off his meds”) is always reckless. When done to demonize someone for their political views, it’s worse than reckless. pic.twitter.com/53roRIyZfK
5:09 AM – 5 May 2018″
https://mobile.twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/992738037036658691
Anonymous, some people fancy they have the ‘inside story’ by reading the work of incompetents who assemble grab bags of factoids. Not much point in arguing with them. Inductive reasoning is not their thing.
Bleat on, old “SOT.”
There’s a reason you live on this blog.
JJ – spot on. McCain senior and junior both evil people. The Liberty will never be forgotten.
The Liberty will never be forgotten.
By anti-semitic kooks.
Recommended reading by a son of a Liberty survivor
The Untold Story of Israel’s Deadly 1967 Assault On A U.S. Spy Ship
By James Scott
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/quot-the-uss-liberty-case-closed-quot
The appropriate antidote.
Anti-semites, like some on this list, prefer to hide behind ignorance rather than question their anti-semitism. They latch onto facts that have been proven wrong even after intelligence reports are released.
what nonsense – they tried to sink the Liberty to gin up support for their skirmishes with Egypt. And McStain’s father had records sealed.
Let the Zionists wage war against whatever nation they choose – but leave the US ($$ and our military forces) out of it. Sick and tired of financing this nonsense while many of our own people go without..
what nonsense – they tried to sink the Liberty to gin up support for their skirmishes with Egypt. A
This makes zero sense. Stop pretending to have any decent impulses, Autumn.
NII, have you ever heard Autumn saying money should be denied to the Palestinians which is used to pay the families of suicide bombers and the like? How about Autumn objecting to all the money provided to the Palestinians by our European allies that goes towards the same end?
I would like to hear autumns explanation of why the Israeli’s would think bombing the Liberty would gin up support. What she calls skirmishes was a full-blown war. She is ignorant of history.
Well, see this remark:
Let the Zionists wage war against whatever nation they choose –
Israel hasn’t been in a war with an Arab state since 1973, bar some dogfights with the Syrian air force. It’s never been in a war with a non-Arab state. It had passable dealings with both Turkey and Iran for decades ‘ere Turkey and Iran elected to declare themselves enemies a propos of nothing in particular. You’ll recall, of course, that Israel was attacked in 1949 and 1973, the subject of immanent attack in 1967, and the subject of escalating artillery barrages for three years after the Six Day War. The Egyptian military had harassed Israeli shipping for years prior to the Suez War. But, hey it’s all about who Israel chooses to wage war on. (O, wait a moment, who The Zionists choose to ‘wage war on’).
NII, you are entirely correct. Autumn wishes to remain superficial and ignorant. Blame the Zionists. Blame the Zionist who “wage war against whatever nation they choose “. I guess that makes her feel better to be ignorant of history and to use the word Zionist which unfortunately in today’s world seems to be a codeword used by anti-semites.
Israel is a peaceful nation that remains in its borders and aids countries all over the world despite its small size and population. It even exports water to thirsty Jordon. It gave Gaza to the Palestinian people with infrastructure intact and without anything in return. What did the Palestinians do? They destroyed the infrastructure and have continuously attacked Israel over that border using tunnels and missiles. I guess Autumn is fond of suicide bombers and people that treat women as chattel.
https://theintercept.com/2017/06/06/fifty-years-later-nsa-keeps-details-of-israels-uss-liberty-attack-secret/
not kooks,
here is the account of a victim of the “friendly fire” incident
https://www.amazon.com/Assault-Liberty-Israeli-American-Intelligence/dp/0394505123/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1526079010&sr=1-1
Yes, kooks. It was not a consequential incident. The notion that it was ‘deliberate’ made no sense to begin with and has been debunked. It continues to be of interest not due to its specific properties, but because there is a ready made constituency which loathes the State of Israel.
@Insufferable May 11, 2018 at 3:01 PM
” ‘The Liberty will never be forgotten.’
“By anti-semitic kooks.”
Oh, come on, Insufferable. We both know that it’s not just people who have a problem with the Israeli government’s attack on the USS Liberty who are anti-Semitic, it’s anybody who has the unspeakably repulsive temerity to criticize any behavior of the Israeli government.
Nonetheless, “If it was an accident, it was the best planned accident I’ve ever heard of.”
“Cover-Up Alleged in Probe of USS Liberty”
“A former Navy attorney who helped lead the military investigation of the 1967 Israeli attack on the USS Liberty that killed 34 American servicemen says former President Lyndon Johnson and his defense secretary, Robert McNamara, ordered that the inquiry conclude the incident was an accident.”
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ussliberty.html
Oh, come on, Insufferable. We both know that it’s not just people who have a problem with the Israeli government’s attack on the USS Liberty who are anti-Semitic, it’s anybody who has the unspeakably repulsive temerity to criticize any behavior of the Israeli government.
I’m not aware of anyone outside of Israel and not enmeshed in diplomatic minutiae who ‘criticises the behavior of the Israeli government’. I am aware of people who have an animus to Israel and use events in the Near East as fodder for that.
In this case, we have an obvious mishap for which the government of Israel apologized and paid compensation. People who despise Israel have undertaken inventive flights of fancy to manufacture a motive for a ‘deliberate attack’. At least 20 monographs have been published on this one incident, most of them polemical. (About 4 have been published about the Mayaguez incident, which was more recent and on a similar scale). Of all the trouble in the world, why is this business of such interest? We know the answer to that question.
@Allan May 12, 2018 at 12:43 PM
“Ken, Our difference of opinion lies not on the value of torture for the sake of torture, but whether or not you or I would approve of waterboarding an individual who has information that would prevent the 9/11 destruction. It might sicken me to do so, but I would protect American lives. Apparently, you would not.”
You’re right, I wouldn’t torture any suspect, as torture is grievously immoral, good only for eliciting false confessions, and for satisfying the sadomasochistic perversions of the torturers. See what CIA torture program whistleblower John Kiriakou said about his colleagues’ torturing for torture’s sake.
I gather from what you say that you think the Israelis who were arrested on the day of the 9/11 attacks and who later appeared on Israeli TV, explaining that they had been in New York City that day to “document the attacks” should have been candidates for torture while in US custody to find out, among other things, how they knew in advance to set up a video camera to capture the pulverization of the Twin Towers, why they had already painted their van with a depiction of a plane crashing into one of the Towers, and why they were doing a celebratory dance as the Towers came down:
http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardian2/september-eleven/israelis-arrested-9-11.htm
What kind of torture would have been appropriate in their case, in view of the additional fact that for all anybody knew, other attacks in NYC and elsewhere in the US were imminent?
Ken, you have slipped over the edge of reality. I am waiting for you to produce proof that any of the suspects mentioned in the article had anything to do with 9/11 were Israelis. The articles you quoted couldn’t be certain of the person’s identity, country of origin or what connection they had with 9/11 or if they went rogue. You sound worse and worse and less knowledgeable as time goes on. I’ll quote NII as he is right in his comment to you.
“There is no ‘sinister’ influence in the mind of anyone to whom Jews are not sinister by definition. You are who you are, Ken. And it’s too bad.”
There are only 3 persons that were waterboarded. You have no proof that waterboarding doesn’t work and it seems that waterboarding led to the location of Osama Bin Laden.
I hope you are never in a position where you could let many Americans die because of your sensitivity to torture that in practice leaves the individual completely intact. I would prefer another to perform the” torture”, but if I had to do it to save American lives I would do it. Let your kids and family know how you wouldn’t do something to save their lives that is done as a routine in training to some of our own troops.
@Allan May 12, 2018 at 8:27 PM
“Ken, you have slipped over the edge of reality. I am waiting for you to produce proof that any of the suspects mentioned in the article had anything to do with 9/11 were Israelis.”
Your sentence above is incoherent, but in case you mean that none of the suspects who were arrested on 9/11 were Israelis, please take another look at one of the items I linked to:
THE SUSPICIOUS “MIDDLE EASTERN MOVERS” WERE ISRAELIS WITH BOXCUTTERS,
EUROPEAN PASSPORTS AND $4000 CASH
SOURCE: ISRAEL NATIONAL NEWS
Arutz Sheva News Service IsraelNationalNews.com 10-26-1
“Five young Israelis are ‘on the verge of collapse,’ according to family members, as their incarceration in New York on charges relating to the Bin Laden attacks continues. They were arrested on Sept. 11, only hours after the World Trade Center attack, on charges of ‘plotting to blow up’ a New York bridge. Katie Shmuel of the Galilee town of Yokne’am, says that her son Yaron is in ‘a very critical psychological situation,’ given that they are not allowed to have visitors and the difficult conditions in which they are being held.
” ‘The Israeli Consul-General in New York was allowed to visit only after asking several times and receiving a special permit,’ Katie told Arutz-7’s Yosef Zalmanson today. ‘He was allowed to talk to them only in English, and only from behind a glass partition. The Consul told me that the boys are in a bad state and that they are being held under difficult conditions.’
“When asked why the five youths, aged 22-26, are being held, Katie replied with despair: ‘It’s ludicrous. They were on the George Washington Bridge at the time of the bombing, and the FBI had warnings of a terrorist plot, of guys in a white van, to blow up the bridge. So when the FBI saw this van, with my son and his four friends – one of them had a large sum of money, there were two razor knives in the van, and one of the boys is named Omer, which the FBI guys thought was Omar – they put one and one together and got three, and immediately arrested them… For the first few days, the boys were held in an FBI dungeon, tied up, with no clothes and no food.’
*The Israeli newspaper Ha’retz revealed on Sept 17 that these were the same men who were seen ‘celebrating’ and ‘making mocking gestures’ as the Twin Towers collapsed.
“** The Jerusalem Post reported on October 26 that the Israelis were smiling as they photograhed themselves with the collapsed towers in the background.”
http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardian2/september-eleven/israelis-arrested-9-11.htm
“I am waiting for you to produce proof that any of the suspects mentioned in the article had anything to do with 9/11 ”
That statement is clear enough. Your claim apparently is that these Israelis had something to do with the 9/11 bombing and I say that is not true. The description of what happened provided by the mother of one of the boys was:
“When asked why the five youths, aged 22-26, are being held, Katie replied with despair: “It’s ludicrous. They were on the George Washington Bridge at the time of the bombing, and the FBI had warnings of a terrorist plot, of guys in a white van, to blow up the bridge. So when the FBI saw this van, with my son and his four friends – one of them had a large sum of money, there were two razor knives in the van, and one of the boys is named Omer, which the FBI guys thought was Omar – they put one and one together and got three, and immediately arrested them.”
The proof of their involvement in the 9/11 bombings would be a conviction or even evidence that they were involved in the 9/11 bombing. Post 9/11 a lot of people were detained. That is not evidence of the 9/11 act rather a hasty round-up of anyone that might look out of place at the time. Since there was no conviction or trial (or any other proof) then you are talking about innocent people.
Of course, the site is suspect. Try going to the news source through the HTTP. I couldn’t. Just look at the site and take note how it is geared towards people that are logic deficient. All this conspiracy theory site does is present unconnected bits and pieces from which one can draw no conclusion of anything. As I said you have slipped over the edge of reality and continue to do so.
Anyone else that is reading this should take note that on the same page is this by Osama Bin Laden: “”I have already said that I am not involved in the September 11 attacks in the United States. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children, and other humans as an appreciable act” This conspiracy site is using that quote to prove 9/11 was caused by sperate controlled demolitions.
You are who you are Ken and there is nothing any of us can do about it. You want to point blame at those that you have an unfounded hatred for.
Ken, I will await the follow-up in this case that you can’t provide because those boys were innocent of all charges.
@Allan May 12, 2018 at 8:27 PM
“Ken, you have slipped over the edge of reality. I am waiting for you to produce proof that any of the suspects mentioned in the article had anything to do with 9/11 were Israelis.”
In addition to my immediately previous response to your challenge, also see the following, which includes a photograph of the painting on the side of the Israeli van depicting a plane crashing into one of the Twin Towers. It’s a verbatim transcript of part of the article, so I haven’t inserted any quotation marks of my own:
5 dancing Mossad agents
On 9/11, eyewitnesses reported that they saw “middle eastern” men “dancing and celebrating” as the towers were engulfed in flames across the river in New Jersey. Officials were alerted and the men were questioned and subsequently arrested. Explosive residue, box-cutters, and Arab clothing were found in the moving van they were using, registered under Urban Moving Systems, later discovered to be a Mossad front company managed by Israeli Dominic Suter. The arrested men, Yaron Shmuel, Omer Marmari, Sivan and Paul Kurzberg, and Oded Ellner, were all Mossad agents.
The 5 Mossad agents seen dancing and caught with box-cutters and explosive residue in their van were sent back to Israel, uninvestigated, even after failing polygraph tests. They gloated on Israeli TV that they were there to “document the event”
In the months that followed, they refused lie-detector tests and were repeatedly questioned about their involvement. Eventually, less than 10 weeks after they were taken into custody, these Mossad suspects of 9/11 were rescued by fellow agent and dual citizen Israeli Michael Chertoff, released from custody, and sent to Israel on minor visa violations. [Emphasis added]
In November 2001, back in Israel, three of the agents, minus the Kurzburg brothers appeared on an Israeli television show. Oded Ellner speaking on behalf of the crew said, “Our purpose was to document the event.” [Emphasis added] At the very least based on this confession, Mossad knew of the attacks and didn’t warn the local authorities, rather they celebrated the event with despicable glee. This direct admission of very specific prior knowledge has gone largely unreported in the Zionist controlled media. Neither the five mossad agents, nor their benefactor, Dominic Suter, have been extradited to the US to face further interrogation or trial.
ARTIST DEPICTION: Mossad front company, Urban Moving Systems, had a van filled with explosives on 9/11. There was a sinister mural painted on the van which depicted the terrible 9/11 tragedy in grim detail. Mossad agent Dominik Suter escaped to Israel after 9/11 and has never since been extradited nor brought to justice.
In a separate incident on 9/11, two other Israelis were caught fleeing another Urban Moving Systems van. This van, filled with explosives, near the George Washington Bridge had a creepy and sinister mural of the twin towers smoking with an airplane shown about to crash into them. The van exploded after the suspects were apprehended. After the initial reports there has been no follow-up investigation regarding this incredibly bizarre event.
http://www.lostscribemedia.com/news/911-israels-masterpiece/
I’ll further address your points on the efficacy of torture in a separate comment.
Ken your unfounded hatred can be seen in what you post. In your first posting, you provided a scenario provided by conspiracy theorists that promote the theory that 9/11 was controlled demolition. In this case you link 9/11 to a picture on a van that you didn’t produce. That picture depicts “a plane crashing into one of the Twin Towers”.
One is forced now to ask the question. which conspiracy theory are you promoting? Controlled demolition or destruction due to the impact of a plane? I am sure you will have plenty more conspiracy theories all differing from one another except an Israeli will somehow be involved. That tells us exactly who and what you are. Tracing back Ken’s HTTP’s one sees a common core so I wonder if Ken hasn’t Americanized his name.
Let us go to the actual site your HTTP leads us to. Kooks or a site created for political reasons relying on kooks. Let me provide a quote from the site:
“Rahm Emanuel, who has long been Mossad’s most important active agent in the US”
Anyone can read the site for themselves and learn how kooky some people can be while at the same time wonder who these people are..
@Allan May 13, 2018 at 10:19 AM
“Ken your unfounded hatred can be seen in what you post. In your first posting, you provided a scenario provided by conspiracy theorists that promote the theory that 9/11 was controlled demolition. In this case you link 9/11 to a picture on a van that you didn’t produce. That picture depicts “a plane crashing into one of the Twin Towers.”
Allan, your muddled thinking can be seen in what you post. 🙂 Seriously, you’re on the outskirts of word-salad territory in whatever you’re trying to say above.
You’re right about one thing, though, and that’s the fact that there are different 9/11 conspiracy theories in play. That you favor the 9/11 Commission’s conspiracy theory asserting that 19 Arabs with box cutters were able to defeat the world’s most sophisticated air defense system, fly around inside the US for an hour or so, and then pulverize into dust and pieces of steel beams three concrete and steel skyscrapers using nothing but aluminum planes and jet fuel on two of them and nothing on the third, rather conclusively suggests that considering physical evidence isn’t your strong suit.
As are others who sneer at conspiracy theorists, you are, of course, one yourself, but one who favors a ridiculously improbable conspiracy theory, whose primary author was a member of the CheneyBush Administration, 9/11 Commission Executive Director, Philip Zelikow. The most appealing feature of the porcine Zelikow conspiracy theory is, of course, that it’s slathered in CheneyBush lipstick and requires nothing on the parts of its gullible consumers, other than to pucker up.
Meet your favorite conspiracy theorist, who’s done all your thinking for you, so you don’t have to do any, Dr. Philip Zelikow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQtvhpOLUmM
Let’s talk again after you’ve seen the evidence at the link above that the 9/11 Commission Report, whose detailed outline Zelikow wrote before the 9/11 Commission had even met, is what Zelikow himself has referred to as “a public myth.”
Well, I’m assuredly not promoting Zelikow’s ludicrous conspiracy theory that the three WTC skyscrapers were pulverized by planes flown into two of them, but the important thing about the painting on the Israeli-owned van is that it was already on the van on 9/11. Now, you’re welcome to attribute that painting to someone’s clairvoyance, just as you are with regard to the arrested Israeli group’s spokesman’s statement that they were in New York to “document the event.” Personally, I’m inclined to think it’s more likely that they had advance knowledge of the WTC attack via normal sensory channels.
For the record, I harbor no hate for anyone, but I do have a big problem with staged events that are used to gain the American people’s acquiescence in the curtailment of their civil liberties and in the perpetration throughout the world of a horrific and open-ended war on a tactic, terrorism, which has already resulted in the deaths of countless innocent men, women, and children.
“Allan, your muddled thinking can be seen in what you post. 🙂”
Of course you think it’s muddled because you provide two different proofs of a terrorist action both involving Israelis. One involving demolition and the other refuting the first involving a plane. You don’t demonstrate a person with his head on straight instead you sound like a head that babbles independent unproven thoughts that are linked together in a nonsensical way where one sentence disproves another.
Your logic is appaling and that is not because of a rational belief rather your logic is of an irrational person that is intent on proving America and Israel to be at fault.
@Insufferable May 12, 2018 at 2:50 PM
“I’m not aware of anyone outside of Israel and not enmeshed in diplomatic minutiae who ‘criticises the behavior of the Israeli government’. I am aware of people who have an animus to Israel and use events in the Near East as fodder for that.”
A confession of your willful ignorance of worldwide criticism of the conduct of the Israeli government is hardly necessary, and of course any “animus to Israel” must just be plain old anti-Semitism.
One thing neither of us has mentioned as a manifestation of anti-Semitism is that of “the self-hating Jew,” as in the cases of these two lamentable Israelis:
“Fifteen years after the attack [on the USS Liberty], an Israeli pilot approached Liberty survivors and then held extensive interviews with former Congressman Paul N. (Pete) McCloskey about his role. According to this senior Israeli lead pilot, he recognized the Liberty as American immediately, so informed his headquarters, and was told to ignore the American flag and continue his attack. He refused to do so and returned to base, where he was arrested.
“Later, a dual-citizen Israeli major told survivors that he was in an Israeli war room where he heard that pilot’s radio report. The attacking pilots and everyone in the Israeli war room knew that they were attacking an American ship, the major said. He recanted the statement only after he received threatening phone calls from Israel.
“The pilot’s protests also were heard by radio monitors in the U.S. Embassy in Lebanon. Then-U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon Dwight Porter has confirmed this. Porter told his story to syndicated columnists Rowland Evans and Robert Novak and offered to submit to further questioning by authorities. Unfortunately, no one in the U.S. government has any interest in hearing these first-person accounts of Israeli treachery. [Washington Report]”
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ussliberty.html
You ask, “Of all the trouble in the world, why is this business of such interest?” In addition to Israel’s unacknowledged treachery in the killing and maiming of US military personnel, the answer has to do with the growing awareness of the sinister influence of Israel on US foreign policy via dual-citizenship Israeli nationals in the US Government and of Israel’s intense interest, with the consistent help of the US Corporate Media, to propagandize and psychologically manipulate the American people and their elected representatives into supporting wars of aggression on its behalf.
A confession of your willful ignorance of worldwide criticism of the conduct of the Israeli government is hardly necessary, and of course any “animus to Israel” must just be plain old anti-Semitism.
No, it’s a statement that you don’t fool me any more than does Human Rights Watch or the UN Commission on Human Rights or any other collection of phonies.
There is no treachery. There are hardly any dual nationals. About 60,000 American-born Jews live in Israel. There is no ‘sinister’ influence in the mind of anyone to whom Jews are not sinister by definition.
You are who you are, Ken. And it’s too bad.
@nsufferable May 12, 2018 at 8:04 PM
“No, it’s a statement that you don’t fool me any more than does Human Rights Watch or the UN Commission on Human Rights or any other collection of phonies.
“There is no treachery. There are hardly any dual nationals. About 60,000 American-born Jews live in Israel. There is no ‘sinister’ influence in the mind of anyone to whom Jews are not sinister by definition.”
There certainly was treachery in the attack on the USS Liberty by Israeli warplanes and torpedo boats. See what the lead Israeli pilot had to say in my comment up-thread.
It isn’t their Jewishness that’s potentially sinister, Insufferable, it’s US government officials’ dual citizenship and divided allegiance between the US and Israel that’s highly problematic.
Here’s only a partial list of US politicians who reportedly are also citizens of Israel. The large number of the remainder may be viewed at the link:
Past and Present:
1. Attorney General – Michael Mukasey
2. Head of Homeland Security – Michael Chertoff
3. Chairman Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Richard Perle
4. Deputy Defense Secretary (Former) – Paul Wolfowitz
5. Under Secretary of Defense – Douglas Feith
6. National Security Council Advisor – Elliott Abrams
7. Vice President Dick Cheney’s Chief of Staff (Former) – “Scooter” Libby
8. White House Deputy Chief of Staff – Joshua Bolten
9. Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs – Marc Grossman
10. Director of Policy Planning at the State Department – Richard Haass
11. U.S. Trade Representative (Cabinet-level Position) – Robert Zoellick
12. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – James Schlesinger
13. UN Representative (Former) – John Bolton
14. Under Secretary for Arms Control – David Wurmser
15. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Eliot Cohen
16. Senior Advisor to the President – Steve Goldsmith
17. Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary – Christopher Gersten
18. Assistant Secretary of State – Lincoln Bloomfield
19. Deputy Assistant to the President – Jay Lefkowitz
20. White House Political Director – Ken Melman
21. National Security Study Group – Edward Luttwak
22. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Kenneth Adelman
23. Defense Intelligence Agency Analyst (Former) – Lawrence (Larry) Franklin
24. National Security Council Advisor – Robert Satloff
25. President Export-Import Bank U.S. – Mel Sembler
26. Deputy Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children and Families – Christopher Gersten
27. Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban Development for Public Affairs – Mark Weinberger
28. White House Speechwriter – David Frum
29. White House Spokesman (Former) – Ari Fleischer
30. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Henry Kissinger
31. Deputy Secretary of Commerce – Samuel Bodman
32. Under Secretary of State for Management – Bonnie Cohen
33. Director of Foreign Service Institute – Ruth Davis
34. Federal Reserve Chair – Janet Yellen
35. Federal Reserve Vice-Chair – Stanley Fischer
http://american3rdposition.com/us-politics-hold-ual-usisraeli-citizenship/
Has any President of the US enjoyed the enthusiasm of the Congressional reception given Netanyahu in 2015? While watching his speech and the reaction to it, consider how many of those giving him repeated standing ovations are also citizens of Israel. (See the link above).
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Netanyahu%27s+speech+to+Congress&view=detail&mid=94C516151E641046A8FD94C516151E641046A8FD&FORM=VIRE&cc=US&setlang=en-US&cvid=d6ecdd91ab994b3194eec774c743af88&qs=SW&nclid=99149D35BC0E2A635BE9F50D36DA7E8A&ts=1526195427883
I voted for the President but he was wrong…dead wrong…to criticize Senator McCain’s military record. If you support the veterans then support all those that served honorably and leave their political opinions out of it, especially when you have zero military experience and cannot relate to captivity and torture. I am a retired Army vet and consider all vets my family regardless. I want to continue supporting the President but he needs to reign in this disrespect or, I’m telling you, he’ll eventually lose the respect of those vets that support him.
Sadler apologized to Cindy McCain but she needs to be dispatched on special assignment to accompany an infantry platoon in Afghanistan, to live as they live and endure what they endure. Maybe she’ll learn to appreciate what it’s like to serve her country outside the posh surroundings of the Beltway. Regardless, her callousness and poor judgment is indefensible.
McInerney knows better. The only thing I can surmise is that he has spent far too long at the political pig trough and temporarily lost his mind. You don’t trash a fellow vet’s honorable military record, General….period. I don’t agree with Senator McCain’s political opinions on many things but as a vet, he is my brother.
All too often individuals become so invested in their own political allegiances, they sell short any sense of decency.
pretty much the norm nowadays, thanks in part to the $h!+-poster in chief.
Hardly a thing to do with him. The downward spiral in the quality of political discussion began around 2001.
TURLEY NAILS ISSUE POISONING AMERICA
THE MEAN-SPIRITED NATURE OF RIGHT-WING MEDIA
For the past quarter of a century right-wing media has promoted a deliberately shocking, ‘in-your-face’ type of
discourse where pundits demonstrate their creed by showing how nasty they can be. And Donald Trump is the monster this discourse has created; a president who insults people with bombastic tweets sent in the dead of night.
One should note that Rupert Murdoch, owner of Fox News, was born in Australia and spent most of his adult life in London. There Murdoch owns tabloid newspapers. London tabloids have long been known for an ‘in-your-face’ bombastic nature. Murdoch launched Fox News with the goal of bringing that discourse to American politics. And sadly he succeeded to a shocking extent.
Yet Fox viewers in small American towns throughout the interior have no idea the network is owned by a foreigner. In fact, Murdoch’s primary investment partner is Prince Al-Waleed, a Saudi investor. Therefore Fox New is actually a foreign plot to infect America with hyper-partisan divisions. A plot that was actually identified by a Chicago columnist back in the 1980’s when Murdoch bought his paper, The Chicago Sun-Times.
Mike Royko had been a Chicago institution writing about local corruption. But late in his career, Royko left the Sun-Times after it had been purchased by Rupert Murdoch. Royko labeled Murdoch “The Alien” and made every effort to let readers know Murdoch was NOT American. Word got out to every Chicagoan at the time. But Royko’s warning were unknown to the larger country. Consequently “The Alien” succeeded in his plot!
And your blog title should be changed since it can read that both the Fox Analyst AND the WH official both said McCain was dying AND a traitor. Of course the official just mocked him for dying and the Fox Analyst didn’t call him a “traitor” he said torture worked on McCain and he sang like a canary to the NVA.
I know you need short and catchy titles, but this is the kind of thing you’d expect from CNN (Certainly Not News)
And McCain has brought this on himself. He trashes Trump in his new book, and has never been shy about using angry profane language toward his Senate Colleagues he disliked or even attacking his own constituents in Townhall meetings. When the R’s got rid of the Filibuster he went to the Press and called everyone who voted for it “Stupid”.
When called on his crass behavior, McCain would always smirk and say “i’m not going to win any Miss Congeniality Awards” and now he’s decided to be an bitter nasty old man all the way to the grave. So, he attracts remarks llke the one just made.
The gratuitous cut at Sarah Palin was a cute little gesture.
Yeah, I’m not sure why he’s attacking Palin for. Without her, he would have lost in 2008 by a bigger margin. I still get over a Republican Nominee wanting a liberal Democrat as VP. Had McCain told the Republican primary voters in 2008 he wanted Liebermann, he never would won SC or NH or been nominated.
Who?
“Most Americans rightfully view Sen. John McCain as a genuine war hero and American icon.”
Only Americans who have no idea about his history. The sailors who died on the Forrestral and their families think otherwise – as do the families of the MIA POWs left in Vietnam who were unable to access any information about their men left in Vietnam because John sealed the records. McCain exemplifies how the powerful protect their own.
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/mccain-and-the-pow-cover-up/
yes mccain has a lot of faults, many!
he was right to oppose gina nonetheless
Americans torturing detainees is bad for America. who cares about the detainees. I don’t. the issue is American interests. Gina is a typical clockpuncher ready to execute orders. Should not be confirmed.
The White House needs to find the leaker. Its inexcusable that some one can make a crass remark in a CLOSED DOOR Meeting and then have it given to the press within 2 hours.
As for McCain – yes he was a war hero – 45 YEARS AGO I don’t remember everyone bringing up Harry Truman”s WW I service when he was President. Or constantly talking about Strom Thurmond’s part in the Normandy Invasion but EVERY SINGLE discussion of McCain MUST Mention he was a war hero – 45 years ago.
Again, he was a combat veteran who suffered. So was Bob Dole. Bob Dole made it explicit that the term ‘hero’ did not apply to Bob Dole.
Bob Dole was incorrect on that point; the “hero” designation for Dole is appropriate.
Agreed. But the fighting in Italy was so brutal and Dole had seen so many of his comrades die in battle that he couldn’t bring himself to accept his own heroism. We are not so encumbered. Dole, too, was a hero.
“yes he was a war hero”. And what war was that? The last war I recall the U.S. involved in was WWII. I am pretty sure McCain is not old enough to have fought in that war.
Let’s not get too technical. Whether Congress creates a piece of paper officially declaring war on a nation does not make the fighting, suffering, and dying any less a war for those involved.
“And what war was that?”
You’re a fatuous dolt, paul
Jay – for us McCain would be a proxy-war hero (assuming he is a hero). The war is between North and South Vietnam. We never officially declared war.
No, the war was between the U.S. and South VietNam and the VietCong and North Vietnam. The last act was between North VietNam and South VietNam.
DSS – you are forgetting the French, Chinese and Soviets.
I’m ‘forgetting’ the French because there was an armistice in 1954. The Chinese and the Soviets provided subsidies but not combat troops.
DSS – subsidies count in a proxy war. 😉 And the whole thing is the fault of the French.
What’s the ‘fault’ of the French?
Dien Bien Phu
DSS – The French should have stayed out of Indochina at the end of WWII.
Why? It was French territory.
It was nevertheless war – undeclared war. People were suffering and dying whether Congress declared it or not. Congress certainly funded it. There have been only 5 declared wars in U.S. history: War of 1812, Mexican American War, Spanish-American War, WW1, and WWII. The combined American death toll in the first 3 declared wars was 15,729. The American death toll in Vietnam was 58,209. In Korea, it was 36,516. Those Americans died in military hostilities representing their country’s armed forces. Whether Congress “officially’ declared it a war did not stop people from getting shot to hell and/or killed. It makes no difference.
Blaine McAvoy – I agree with you whole-heartedly.