In Sandston, Virginia, Bryan Tucker is not known as kid friendly. Tucker was upset that kids would stray into his yard while waiting for the bus. His solution? He installed an electric fence and started shocking kids.
He is quoted as shrugging off the criticism by saying to WTVR-News that “They don’t respect other people’s land.”
It does appear legal to install the fence but that leaves questions of torts and whether such a fence could be the basis for a battery or negligence case. The voltage is low but he has reason to know of children in the area. Indeed, they appear to be his targets. Child trespassers are given special protections from the usual rule that there is no duty owed to trespassers. Moreover, there are duties of notice for discovered or anticipated trespassers. There are also cases governing attractive nuisance cases where children are drawn by proximity or curiosity to a danger. The Restatement Second Section 339 states five elements, including (1) the place where the condition exists is one on which the possessor knows or has reason to know that children are likely to trespass; (2) the condition is one of which the possessor knows or has reason to know and which he realizes or should realize will involve an unreasonable risk of death or serious bodily harm to such children, (3) the children, because of their youth, do not discover the condition or realize the risk involved in inter-meddling with it or in coming within the area made dangerous by it; (4) the utility to the possessor of maintaining the condition and the burden of eliminating the danger are slight as compared with the risk to children involved, and (5) the possessor fails to exercise reasonable care to eliminate the danger or otherwise to protect the children.
Many would view an electric fence as facially unreasonable. However, such fences are more common in rural areas, particularly areas with livestock. With the fence down, it appears that the greatest liability for Tucker will remain his reputation. Parents complained but all the police could do is force Tucker to move his fence back to his property line rather than county property. He had already made his point: “The message has gotten across. Parents are posting and talking about it.” Well, yea, but they’re posting about this colossal jerk who lives in Sandston and shocks children waiting for a school bus.
Mean man with no sense of aesthetic or even his own property line. How about an attractive fence, white picket, maybe, at his actual property line? Maybe plant some thorny roses along the fence if the kids get too close to it. Funny thing about kids is that mean old men tend to make themselves a target for kids.
As a kid, myself and a couple of cousins would put find an appropriate grass to put on the electric fence to feel the jolt. It wasn’t a particularly pleasant feeling. It happened more than once because of different cousins visiting and you have to show them that it doesn’t hurt. (lol)
There is a CA native rose with thorns like Velcro. It is described as perfect for those with neighbors who like to steal their electricity.
Granted, such a plant would actually hurt the kids more than a small shock. It it would be more subtle and aesthetically pleasing. He could just claim he really enjoyed native plants.
Good for him, and get your facts straight, Mister intelectual. Electric fences are very high voltage and low current… Mine runs around 6000 volts.
Some communist towns like the one I used to live in,prevent you from even putting an electric fence around your garden. So much for the land of the free. Attorneys a major reason why our rights are being trampled. They always seem to come up with inverted logic as to why trampling a right is good and the correct thing to do.
I thought I read somewhere that this guy had built his fence up to or close to the sidewalk. But the actual property line is set back a number of feet from there. So the loitering kids were actually on the public street right-of-way. If the property owner would just mow the grass up to the property line and no further, and let the city mow the rest, maybe that would solve the problem !
I take note of Professor Turley’s previous blog. “McGowan writes that the UNC students were acting in a moral fashion in destroying a piece of public art that they disliked.”
He or someone like him probably taught the parents of those kids that littered and tresspassed. Is it surprising that parents without respect end up having children that cannot respect the people and the community they live in?
Place the blame where it belongs. Tolerance for the actions of Mr. McGowan and others like him. Perhaps those like him should not be in the position of influencing young minds.
In all the energy used to call this homeowner a “jerk,” JT missed that part in the article about the ignored “No Trespassing” signs, the cursing, the fighting, the trash left on his yard every day. You don’t have to:
https://wtvr.com/2018/09/04/electric-fence-bus-stop/
Pity the local government there is so cheap. No sidewalks, street trees, or curbs.
Sandston is a blue collar town near the airport. Nice folks but not overly hung up on public improvements.
Thanks for the additional info, Mespo. It explains how he arrived in that state.
The parts that I’m familiar with VA do not have fences. Many people don’t even have a fence in their backyards, which is why chaining dogs is such a problem in some geographical areas.
There are fences everywhere in CA. Fences make good neighbors. Since the parents clearly were not handling this problem, a proper fence would.
I don’t think an electric fence is a good idea. Something more permanent would be better. Plus he won’t have to worry about any kids with medical conditions.
Don’t depend on good nature. Just fence it.
Guy Protects Property From Unruly and Unsupervised Kids! Quite the national story!
Don’t the kids know you can short out an electric fence with toilet paper.
I had a bus stop outside my home once. The children fought, screamed at each other and left all sorts of cans, bottles and food wrappers under my trees…at 6:30 in the morning. Forget about sleeping if you work a late shift.
So now we have changed the stereotype of a grumpy old man shaking a cane and yelling at children to one shaking a cattle prod and humming at 60 Hz?
Darren Smith – I think this one is sitting on his porch watching the kids fry. 😉
Down the street from where I live there were 3 horses in a fenced in corral. It was about 60 feet off the sidewalk. It was nice to walk down the street and see the horses. One day on their way home from school some school children decided to leave the sidewalk and approach the horses. One of the children went home and told his parents that the horse charged him. Parent goes down to town hall, complains. Soon after the horses are gone, corral is taken down. I guess Americans today have a different set of values than the ones I grew up with.
I’ll see you that story and raise you one.
Years ago I went to the barn where I boarded my horse, to find a family in my friend’s stall with the gate wide open, their toddler sitting on the mare’s back. No halter. No one at her head. Head facing the wide open door. Now, this was a very sweet, elderly kid who loved everybody. Next to her was an Appt mare who despised everyone except her owner and kicked like a cow. My own horse was a year or so off the track and very hot.
I questioned them, and it turned out they saw the barn from the freeway, drove around until they found it, drive up someone’s private driveway, went to the barn and helped themselves to the horses.
They were really offended and angry when I told them they could have killed their kid. If they wouldn’t open up a stranger’s fence to pet their dog, they shouldn’t do the same for a horse. It was dumb luck they happened to pick the only one where this little vignette didn’t end tragically. The owner was so pissed when I told her.
If that kid had been hurt, they would have sued everyone and reported the horse to Animal Control. Litigation against horse owners, combined with high property taxes, has driven the horse right out of the west. When horses get driven off the property, like in Bob’s story, they get sold on down the line with an uncertain future. My Dad would have scolded me for trespassing, not blamed the horse owner. Personal responsibility.
It is extremely common for kids to trespass, improperly feed a horse, and get bitten or a broken nose. Or they feed the horse something poisonous on accident.
Thou shalt not touch what’s not yours. Words for the government and her people to live by.
Karen……great story. It’s unbelievable whatvstrangers will do!
We have a falling down shack at the front of our ranch…….but a nice cabin a few acres back where our daughter, hubby and grandkids live. We decided years ago to leave the shack in front, hoping that people would think that’s all there is to the place…..so far, so good!
And when we had registered longhorn cattle, those horns were intimidating to passersby. Not everybody knows that female longhorns, as well as the bulls, have the horns. So the entire herd looked intimidating. You have to work with what ya got in the country.
You must be a superb Southern horsewoman, like Leslie (Liz Taylor) in “Giant”!
I look at Brett Kavanagh and think about what a brilliant, wholesome, happy, productive American, father, son, husband, What a delight to hear him speak.
A little physical pain will take their mind of their emotional problems. As for the parents, some feedback from the larger society on the effectiveness of their educational programme in manners isn’t going to hurt them. It will, of course, piss them off.
The problem is the parents who will criticize the “mean old man’ rather than teach their kids to respect other people’s rights and property. When I was that age, we knew there were people who for whatever reason just didn’t want kids on their property. We knew that and respected their feelings. Other people let us raid their apple trees and enjoyed talking to the kids. We were taught that people are different and that’s ok, you just respect them and their property and you’ll get along. A lot of younger parents think everyone is supposed to adore their kids, and they’re horrible people if they don’t. They’re not teaching their kids manners or limits or respect for others, so it’s not surprising that someone would put up a fence, electric or otherwise.
Was it posted? With full disclosure?
If yes and they came on anyway sue the teachers.
If No he’s in a world of doo doo.
Realisticallly did he ask for assistance from the parents and local police and check the zoning laws.So let’s go read the rest of the story.
I managed an apartment building where kids would wait for the bus after school. They scratched their names on the glass of the lobby, left their discarded food wrappers (with food) on the lawn, heckled people as they walked by and almost destroyed the lawn. I don’t blame him.
Play classical music. Kids hate that. Repels them in fact. Also start charging admission. Their lunch money won’t go far.
Rikr – there are sounds that the kids can hear that adults cannot. Start playing those, only the kids will be annoyed. 😉 A nice steady long pitched tone
Rikr….the music thing works, at least it did in Austin. Gangs were overtaking a shopping mall about 25 years ago. Highland Mall was having a terrible time with gangs showing up, staying for hours just to intimidate shoppers, so they started playing Barry Manilow non-stop, loudly on the PA system, All Barry. All the time. It worked! The gangs left after a day or two, most likely to the strains of “Mandy” ..
The District of Columbia did the same thing in the Gallery Place / Chinatown Mall. They piped in classical music to drive out the gang bangers, at an audible level that can be heard by teens but not adults. Apparently it’s similar to those ultrasonic gizmos that drive out roaches.
Oh Mandy, you came and you left without taking ‘cause I sent you away. Oh Mandy.
🙂
I can certainly see how that would be effective. Maybe not so good on your target market either…
Not true in all cases. I personally know of kids (High School age) who play classical music on their headphones while going to sleep.
No, they’re putting on headphones because they don’t want creepy Uncle Mark to tell them a “bedtime story.” Take the hint.
TIN – it is the ones listening to classical music that we DON”T have to worry about. 😉 However, you are probably right about Uncle Marky Mark Mark.
“I personally know of kids (High School age) who play classical music on their headphones while going to sleep.”
That might be a more broadly generational phenom. My son has an appreciation for classical music, most likely from studying it from an early age. Listens to it regularly. There seems to be a level of respect for society among his peers that is not reflected in the millennial crowd.
😊👏
I certainly understand Mr. Tucker’s frustration and anger. But, he needs to put that aside and think ahead for his own sake. Some day these little kids will be big kids, and some are going to remember the old mean man on the corner. No telling what their revenge might be, if some of them want “pay back”.
If I were Mr.Tucker, I would talk with the kids, and inform them he’s decided to take a new approach, and organize a Lawn Patrol,,,,and any kid who joins and helps him keep other kids off his lawn gets free candy! Or free cookies, quarters? whatever. He will become beloved, have a nice lawn, and have a built-in personal Neighborhood Watch group for the future.
What is it when the local gangs come around and collect for not trashing store. OH YES a protection racket.
Well, Cindy as you know it’s Virginia. We’re armed. That tends to keep adults in line who seek to exact revenge at people’s homes for grievances rendered in the past. Makes for a peaceful neighborhood.
mespo – an armed society is a polite society.
An armed society is a society with countless gun deaths. In the UK, there are relatively few private firearms. And very few gun deaths. Are they much less polite than we are?
In this country, how many guns would it take to drive the number of gun deaths down to zero? If we had guns stacked on the sidewalks, guns dangling from trees, guns everywhere you turn? Would that do it?
“London’s homicide rate is higher than New York’s only by a narrow measure, and for its population size is not the worst in the UK”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/05/how-does-londons-spate-of-killings-compare-with-other-cities
Jay S – I have lived in the Real West most of my life and have found people to be very polite. 😉
Indeed, mespo…….I have a dear friend in Oklahoma…Once I told him about our neighbors across the street letting their dogs out early mornings to come into our yard and relieve themselves, bark and dig, etc. We at first tried asking them to please keep their dogs off our lawn, etc. My friend in Okla. interrupted my story and yelled….”Girl, don’t you have a gun?” We didn’t… but we did have a Municipal Judge. The neighbors, however, claimed we were racists because they were poor Hispanics.
“The neighbors, however, claimed we were racists because they were poor Hispanics.”
****************************
Like Bannon says when its undeserved wear it like a badge of honor and buy a bear trap or two. Birdshot works, too. Presuming the dogs are smarter than their owners, I’d “warm their hide,” as my grandfather used to say and see if they are teachable animals.
mespo………warming their hides would be fun 😊 but she has sent them away. ( or maybe she ate them?) either to doggie boarding school, or to a son’s house.
This was the first time in our marriage that hubby and I have had any trouble with a neighbor.. We’ve always had a great relationship with our neighbors no matter where we have lived.
I’d never move because I have great neighbors.
mespo……a favorite friend of mine passed away last December..at the age of 101.
She was from Petersburg, and proud of it! Her family name was Munt.
She was a force of nature, and even though had been in Texas a long time, still spoke with that beautiful Virginian southern accent. She never lost it. The last time I was in Va. in autumn, I gathered some Fall foliage that had fallen, put those gorgeous leaves in plastic, and brought them back to Texas for her. Autumn was what she missed most about Virginia. Me too!
I’m heading to the Valley in two weeks. I post some pics of the true definition of “Fall.”
mespo……oh wow…. can’t wait!
Try the Hudson River Valley. As one drives further and further north along the Hudson River the changes in the leaves rapidly become more and more obvious. The views of the River are fantastic and if one knows their history especially American history some of the trip is extraordinary. For the midwesterners the Hudson through the Erie canal to Lake Erie completes an entire ltransportation network surrounding the entire east of the US that was vital to the country’s development. The eastern side of the network is the intracoastal waterway so that only rarely is shipping not protected from the Atlantic Ocean.
Allan….sounds wonderful…we,ve stayed on the. Erie Canal in Medina….been to Finger Lakes but never in Autumn….wish we could!
I think I convinced myself. I’m going to head back to the city and take a trip up the Hudson Valley to Storm King so I can see the leaves and the wonderful up to 50 feet massive outdoor sculptures at Storm King that sits over acres of land. Maybe in the future a longer trip to the finger lakes and parts of the Erie Canal.
Allan…….lucky you! I looked up Storm King…….such a neat place! One of my family names is Hand. Some of my Hands were in New York, the rest in the South.We found a roadside marker I think in Finger Lakes that was a historical place where a General Hand had fought in Rev. War. Also C. Vanderbilt’s mother on Staten Island was a Hand.
Have a great trip, Allan, you lucky dog.
I haven’t told my wife yet. I love that place. The drive is fantastic and if one is lucky they can get reservations at the Culinary Institute in the vicinity after seeing Storm King. There is so much including the estates of the Roosevelt’s, Vanderbilts etc. The nation was created by hard working men and women that believed in private property and capitalism. I wonder what the weenies of today will leave behind. Maybe something like Freetown Christiania in Denmark. That is about all they are capable of doing and based on what I hear on this blog it won’t take long.
Allan……….I’ll bet your wife will want to go! The Culinary Institute would be so fun and the grand old homes….You’re so right about the real men and women who worked hard to produce this precious gem, our beloved America…….and today the Toddler Taliban is destroying it! It’s really too depressing to think about.
But your trip will be fantastic. I’m sure!
“.and today the Toddler Taliban is destroying it!”
Cindy we have a bunch of those children posting on this blog. The only thing different is they are going through their second childhood. Unfortunately, some were never approrpriately educated in their first childhood and remain so in their second.
I’ve always wanted to take that trip. Fall evenings on the Blue Ridge are spectacular too.
Do it!
There’s a street in my home county of Prince George called Munt Drive. It’s the same family. As we say in the country, I don’t them but I know of them. I think they are related to our friends, the Bousseaus and the Birchetts.
mespo…interesting! Her full name was Carter Belle Munt Williams Clopton. Mr. Williams was killed in WWll….her second husband was Mr. Clopton from Texas…He passed in the late 50’s I think. She helped create the Dept of Aging in Texas.
I led “sing-alongs” white at her assisted living place…..that’s how we met. We both liked each other immediately. Every time she would walk into the parlor for the sing-along, I would get the whole group to sing Carry Me Back to Old Virginny! She would wave like Queen Elizabeth and sing with us! LOL…..It was so much fun every week!
Thank God the founders did not have your mental illness or we would still be a British colony because they would have feared upsetting king George…
He should consider a battery backup in case the power goes out.
Did you mean like He IS doing.
He took funding from Bush’s pass on budget and didn’t build much of anything just took credit for it. But the problem of funding was solved to day. President if Commander-In-Chief. of the military and LEA. Including all of DOHS. Declares the illegals and invasion (and this I added….declares the drugs they often mule in as WMD) Military and DOHS is 70% of the discretionary budget. He doesn’t need permission from anyone to build defenses. The budget is already past. The States have no say as the border is federal. Thus the obstructionests can stand with thumb in their mouth or whatever and cry a river.
Build a wall like Obama did.
Build a wall like Trump didn’t.
He took funding from Bush’s pass on budget and didn’t build much of anything just took credit for it. But the problem of funding was solved to day. President if Commander-In-Chief. of the military and LEA. Including all of DOHS. Declares the illegals and invasion (and this I added….declares the drugs they often mule in as WMD) Military and DOHS is 70% of the discretionary budget. He doesn’t need permission from anyone to build defenses. The budget is already past. The States have no say as the border is federal. Thus the obstructionests can stand with thumb in their mouth or whatever and cry a river.
We used to live on a corner lot where the kids would cut across the lawn until we started letting the dog out. The dog was ticketed as vicious until we went to court and they saw it was a 4 pound Chihauhua. The judge couldn’t stop laughing. That dog was territorial though. 😉
I am with the owner on this one. 🙂
That is hilarious, Paul C.
Great story. I believe it. KEEP THOSE KIDS OFFA MY LAWN!!!! Chihauhuas, as one of man’s best friends, are quite fierce! (and lovable).
The only time I’ve ever been chased out of a yard by a dog was by a bloody Chihuahua. Vicious little beasts 🙂
Wally Moran – Chihauhaus are frustrated German Shepherds. Their bark really is worse than their bite
Works for me. An electric fence will keep the cattle in and the kids out.
Don’t live in or near a city.
That is complete moral relativism. (a plank in the church of satan BTW) a person’s rights should not depend upon what fictional government entity claims to govern the so called “private property”. — Government should protect rights, NOT trample them.