Biden Under Fire For Excessive Civility

Joe Biden is under fire from leading Democrats for the sin of civility. Biden made the simple observation that the Senate actually “got things done” when he was a member by maintaining “civility.” He noted that he was even able to work with such opposing figures as segregationist senators James Eastland of Mississippi and Herman Talmadge of Georgia. That led to a torrent of outrage that he was ever civil with such individuals. To his credit, Biden correctly refused to apologize. He was making the point that you can oppose others without grinding the government to a standstill or just engaging in shrill and personal attacks.

Biden noted that “I was in a caucus with James O. Eastland.” He added “He never called me ‘boy,’ he always called me ‘son.'” He then referred to his wok with Talmadge and added “[He was] one of the meanest guys I ever knew, you go down the list of all these guys. Well, guess what? At least there was some civility. We got things done. We didn’t agree on much of anything. We got things done. We got it finished. But today, you look at the other side and you’re the enemy. Not the opposition, the enemy. We don’t talk to each other anymore.”

The thing about not being called “boy” was another gaffe by Biden but his point was an honest and legitimate one. Biden did indeed have a good reputation in the Senate. I was in meetings with him and he had an effective and affable approach that built coalitions across party lines. It is a record that is relevant and positive for his quest to be the next president.

This point was made later by Biden in noting that

“I could not have disagreed with Jim Eastland more. He was a segregationist. I ran for the United States Senate because I disagreed with the views of the segregationist — many of them in the Senate at the time. The point I’m making is you don’t have to agree. You don’t have to like the people in terms of their views. But you just have to simply make the case you beat them, you beat them without changing the system.”

Biden’s initial comments drew criticism from some of his 2020 rivals, including Booker.

Fellow presidential candidate New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio slammed Biden for his comments, tweeting that Eastland believed his interracial family should be illegal.

“It’s 2019 & @JoeBiden is longing for the good old days of ‘civility’ typified by James Eastland. Eastland thought my multiracial family should be illegal & that whites were entitled to “the pursuit of dead n******. It’s past time for apologies or evolution from @JoeBiden. He repeatedly demonstrates that he is out of step with the values of the modern Democratic Party,” de Blasio tweeted Wednesday.View image on Twitter

View image on Twitter

Bill de Blasio@BilldeBlasio

It’s 2019 & @JoeBiden is longing for the good old days of “civility” typified by James Eastland. Eastland thought my multiracial family should be illegal & that whites were entitled to “the pursuit of dead n*ggers.” (1/2)5,23811:47 AM – Jun 19, 20192,241 people are talking about thisTwitter Ads info and privacy

Sen. Cory Booker, also a presidential candidate, demanded an apology and said

“You don’t joke about calling black men ‘boys.’ Men like James O. Eastland used words like that, and the racist policies that accompanied them, to perpetuate white supremacy and strip black Americans of our very humanity. Vice President Biden’s relationships with proud segregationists are not the model for how we make America a safer and more inclusive place for black people, and for everyone. I have to tell Vice President Biden, as someone I respect, that he is wrong for using his relationships with Eastland and Talmadge as examples of how to bring our country together. And frankly, I’m disappointed that he hasn’t issued an immediate apology for the pain his words are dredging up for many Americans. He should.”

Likewise, Sen. Kamala Harris, D-Calif., said Biden’s comments on Eastland and Talmadge were “misinformed and wrong.” She added “Let’s be very clear that the senators that he is speaking of with such adoration are individuals who made and built their reputation on segregation.”

Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass added “I’m not here to criticize other Democrats, but it’s never ok to celebrate segregationists. Never.”

It truly captures our age of rage that simply saying that you can work with people on the far extremes of politics is considered grossly inappropriate. Civility is now a weakness. It is rage not results that is now the measure for politicians on both sides.


176 thoughts on “Biden Under Fire For Excessive Civility”

  1. Churchill preached civility but he didn’t practice it — like most great men. When the greatest Englishman was asked about PM Ramsey McDonald’s lack of courage in the face of adversity Churchill famously said: “I remember when I was a child, being taken to the celebrated Barnum’s Circus, which contained an exhibition of freaks and monstrosities, but the exhibit on the programme which I most desired to see was the one described as “The Boneless Wonder”. My parents judged that the spectacle would be too demoralising and revolting for my youthful eye and I have waited fifty years, to see the The Boneless Wonder sitting on the Treasury Bench.“

    And in discussing the Labour challenger for the PM job, Clement Atlee, Churchill quipped “He’s a sheep in sheep’s clothing.”

    Civility is fine but no one remembers it. Pithy truths withstand the erosion of time.

    1. I wonder if that freak was a descendant of Ivar the Boneless, Viking Scourge of Wessex? just kidding. good comment as always

    2. My personal favorite is his exchange with Lady Astor. Comes to mind whenever Jill or Natacha post:

      Lady Astor: If I were your wife, I’d put poison in your coffee.

      WC: Madam, if I were your husband, I would drink it.

  2. Just say no to Joe and the “scandal-free” Obama years… what a schlock of you know what…

    Obama was a nobody community organizer who became a politician and is now filthy rich. He and Michelle and kids are jet setting around Europe (again) this summer and will be guests of Hollywood star George Clooney and his wife this weekend in Italy.

    We the taxpayers, are paying for Obama’s extravagant benefits and perks for the rest of his life. The man is only in his 50s and on his way to becoming a billionaire. We should not be paying hundreds of thousands a year for the rest of this man’s mega rich celebrity jetsetting lifestyle for the rest of his life….what’s wrong with this picture??

    1. The ex-presidency needs to be cut down to size, and that’s all of them. Mrs. Kennedy schlepped around Manhattan for 19 years w/o any security but the doormen at her building. The Nixons surrendered their security detail in 1986. That should tell you that 12 years worth of 24 hour security details is enough.

      No President who served prior to 1929 had a presidential library. Build a modular records center in Kansas City, send the archival material there, and deed the rest over to the county governments where these temples are located.

      Put price controls on interstate contracts for honoraria granted quondam federal officials.

      Raise their salary but withhold some of it for a severance purse. No more lifetime pensions.

      Limit their post presidential office to some secretarial help to answer the mail and keep an appointment diary.

      When Harry Truman left office, he received no security detail and no pension. His retirement was spent in a house his wife had inherited and they had to cope with stalkers picking flowers from their garden and gathering on the sidewalk outside their door. Truman, who was the issue of the Prendergast machine in Kansas City, thought it unseemly to rake in honoraria.

  3. Joe Biden took his family, including his grandchildren, on his foreign trips as vice president. He brought along his son, Hunter Biden and his daughters. They traveled with him to China, and to eastern Europe, Ukraine, etc. Hunter Biden then made billion dollar deals with China and Ukraine while his father was serving as vice president.

    But Joe Biden inisists that he never discussed his son Hunter’s business dealings — even though Hunter and his daughters flew with Joe Biden on Air Force 2 to China, etc, while he was acting as VP and conducting foreign diplomacy! But of course the Obama admin was “scandal free” — as they keep telling us.

  4. “Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass added “I’m not here to criticize other Democrats, but it’s never ok to celebrate segregationists. Never.””

    Nice show of principle there, Miz Warren. I guess we can put you down for taking Robert K. Byrd’s name off of everything Federal, right? Senator Byrd was not only a segregationist in his political youth, along with John Stennis and Strom Thurmond, but a Klansman, too.

    Oh, I forgot. You’re not here to criticize other Democrats.

  5. American politics oscillates from relatively rare occasions when bipartisanship was more than sales tactics to get bills pass to open hatred and throat-cutting adversarial tactics, which seem to be the normal state of affairs for any real student of American history. The throat-cutters on all sides of American politics play favorites with the backstories of their own party’s leadership.

    Biden couid probably have gotten away with saying what he did about West Virginia’s Robert K. Byrd, who didn’t just have a Klansman “stage” in his youth, but was a leader in the Klan for a while. But Byrd, long after he left the Klan, remained a Democrat and now Democrats say “…but he changed”. So did John Stennis. In both cases, it was tacking with the wind, but near the ends of their Senatorial careers, both men realized that serving their state’s people effectively meant moving toward the center of national politics, at least to the degree they could no longer be called extremists.

    John Stennis, here in Mississippi, is remembered by all Mississippians for his achievements – a strong Navy (which named a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier after him), support for space exploration (NASA’s rocket engnie testing facility, which also has the Navy’s secretive Oceanographic Command as a tenant, and a munitions plant in standby if needed to produce smart munitions for the services, is also named after him). Stennsis misdeeds and acheivements are out there for everyone to see, but unlike Robert K. Byrd, the Democrats haven’t forgiven and rehabilitated John Stennis, because he changed parties.

    At this point, we can safely disregard the Stennis-haters’ remarks as demonization, right out of Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals, a classic work of politics and polemics written, like Mein Kampf while its author was imprisoned. If that weren’t so, they’d be just as unforgiving of Robert K. Byrd.

    1. Jean, here’s what you wrote: “Democrats haven’t forgiven and rehabilitated John Stennis, because he changed parties”.

      If Stennis changed parties, ‘why’ would Democrats forgive and, or, rehabilitate him?

      1. Because John Stennis’s early political years were no more objectionable than those of their own Robert Byrd, who the Democratic Party forgave and rehabilitated for his days in the KKK because he remained a Democrat.

        Democrats are selectively outraged about a Senator’s segregationist background.

        I wish hypocrisy like this was remarkable in Washington. But politicians on the campaign trail will say and do absurd things to grab the brass ring.

        1. Estovir, Bryrd represented West Virginia, the most conservative of states. The party didn’t necessarily love him, but Bryrd was known as a walking encyclopedia on congressional rules and procedures.

          But if Stennis left the party, Democrats had no reason to hold him in good standing. However Jean is not even clear on how Democrats turned their backs on Stennis. It’s just some broad point that Jean is tossing out. And like an idiot, you took his broad point to heart.

    2. Robert Byrd had a history of opposing various sorts of black-pandering political mischief long after he exited the “klan.” For this, he is occasionally denounced by the leftists who bother to remember him.

      Don’t run Robert Byrd down so much would be my humble suggestion. He was a complicated person who did some good things in public service and compares favorably to his current day inferiors in the Democrat faction of Congress.

      1. Mr. Kurtz. my point was that in his heyday, Dixiecrat Byrd was no better or worse than Dixiecrat Stennis. Guess who the Democrats single out for obloquy.

        Criticism of John Stennis for acts committed when Joe Biden was a young man is myopic.
        Stennis was powerful and respected throughout his career,.especially for his support of the US military. Let’s treat statesmen of that era with the insight that they did tack with the winds of change.

  6. Refusing to work with people with whom you disagree would render someone unfit for office.

    For example, is the expectation that we should immediately declare war on almost the entire world, because we vehemently oppose the human rights abuses, or even lack of free speech? Guess we’d better start building more bombs and munitions.

    After the Civil War, Congress was expected to function, even though Senators came from sides that had lately been trying to kill each other.

    I don’t even like Biden, and of course he should not apologize for remarking that disparate sides of the aisle used to work better together than they do now in the Age of Rage.

    1. It is hypocritical, however, that Biden engages in bashing both Trump and his supporters, while bemoaning the loss of civility. In a campaign ad, he perpetuated the myth that Trump called racists fine people when, in actuality, he said he was not talking about racists who should “be condemned totally.”

      So, while I agree with Biden’s message, I disagree with his behavior. He has no moral high ground to stand upon.

      Perhaps 2020 will be better, with all sides behaving in a more civilized manner.

      1. I keep track of Biden’s beliefs by having a Joe Biden weather vane that turns with the wind.

        1. Piers Morgan has called it right, Xanax for liberals for 4 more years


          Forget the polls, rampaging Trump’s going to win easily in 2020

          Yet when Trump launched his 2020 campaign on Tuesday night in Orlando, Florida, I didn’t sense I was watching a guy who’s going to lose.

          In fact, I got the complete opposite feeling.

          Trump exuded the confident all-conquering swagger of someone who defied all polls and logic last time, and fully intends to do so again.

          1. A mile away, the Proud Boys were stopped by Orlando police from attacking some anti-Trump protesters. Underreported by the media but his “good people” will become a drag on his campaign.

            1. Enigma – Trump’s entire comment, on video, clearly stated that he was not talking about racists, whom “should be condemned totally.”

              What does that tell you about honesty in either the media, or online, when this oft repeated lie is referenced? It is so easily disproven. Those who perpetuate must know that it’s not true. Why resort to false propaganda and not just truthfully disagree with him on policy, for example?

              These extremist movements are formed in the fire of resentment against equally extremist opposing extremist movements. Jordan Peterson has had many discussions on what fuels the extreme right, and ideology. He has had some degree of success in pulling people back from the far reaches of such extremism.

              1. As Karen should know by now there were no “good people” or “very fine people” in Charlottesville. The rally was organized and publicized nationally by Nazis and racists for Nazis and racists. Clearly racist posters, Police affadavits on the expected crowd as well as video of the rally confirm the nature of the rally, which lacked little grandmothers attending to protest in favor of their favorite confederate statue. Whoever Trump was defendingis known only to him and appear to be a figment of his – and Karen’s – imagination or Nazis.

              2. Make a bet with you. Wherever the next Trump rally is, a bunch of proud avowed racists will be there supporting him. Trump “didn’t know” who David Duke was until proof of their previous interactions was brought forth. His generic disavowal of racism doesn’t match his behavior, These are the people his supporters are in bed with, like it or not.


                1. He has also – on numerous occasions – retweeted memes picked up by far right and racist organizations and personalities. If you lay down with dogs, you get fleas.

                  1. Anon, some dogs with fleas may follow Trump around but he can’t do anything about it. On the other hand you intentionally lie down with dogs with fleas over and over again even after being told they have fleas. Then you roll around in what they leave on the ground.

                2. You’ve heard Joe Biden say there’s not a racist bone in his body, right? And you accept that as enough? Why? Go back and listen to what Biden has actually said and done over the years. Then listen to Trump over the years. Listen to what Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson thought about Trump decades ago. Trump is not a racist. They know it.
                  But Joe Biden? Go back and listen to what he has said and done over his political life. Then tell us who the racist is. Hint: it’s not Trump. So yeah, if you want to talk about the Democrats, we can have a hearty discussion about the history of racism in that party.

                    1. “I used to be a Democrat until I did my history and found out the misery that that party brought to my race … slavery, KKK, JimCrow, killed over 40% of our black babies, 20M of them. How about [Democrats] pay for all the misery brought to my race?” -Burgess Owens

                    1. Trump does indeed speak for himself. He does not speak for Republicans or Democrats or the media. He is working on behalf of all Americans. If you choose to believe the Democrat/media political spin, then that’s your choice to let yourself be manipulated and used and your vote taken for granted.

                      Can you name any Democrat policies that are actually helping our black community, our inner cities, our black youth? What has Elijah Cummings done?
                      Or John Lewis after decades in Congress? Trump asked us to give him a chance to produce results, to get all Americans back to work. He promised jobs, jobs, jobs. He asked for a chance and four years. Then decide if he has actually helped improve life for all Americans including the black community, black youth, and our inner cities.

                      But you are so sure that Trump is what the media and the pundits and the Democrat politicians tell you he is, that you can’t even see the possibility that he might just change things for the better and produce real results. What a shame.

                3. David Duke has praised Democrat Ilhan Omar and called her the most important member of Congress. Should she disavow?

                    1. David Duke is a racist. Among other races and religions he hates blacks and Jews. He has carried the flag for Democrats and Republicans but that doesn’t mean he was accepted by either though his participation in the KKK in the south makes him a Democrat of the times.

                      Enigma, you would like use defamation to make him seem like a Republican and others similarly inclined to stir up racism would like to make him seem like a Democrat. Dukes KKK advocacy at the time fit in nicely with the Democrats of the time.

                      It is unseemly, Enigma, for you to try and attach David Duke to any individual or party.

                      [As an aside, Duke was also a member of the Reform Party. His only real message was racist. His only power arises from people like Enigma that use his name and racism to keep Duke’s racist ideas alive.]

                    2. This is you Allan totally making shit up. Someone made a comment about Duke saying something about someone, I was unfamiliar with the comment and asked for the context. I didn’t try to associate him with a Party (he did run for Senate in LA in 2016 as a Republican but I didn’t mention it). I didn’t say anything negative about anyone or anything, I asked a one word question? Then you take paragraphs to tell me what I’m doing and believe. You’re not worthy of conversation.

                    3. “I didn’t say anything negative about anyone or anything, I asked a one word question?”

                      Is that all you said? No. You have said a lot more on previous threads and a lot more on this thread just a bit above your present response. I’ll repeat my statement “It is unseemly, Enigma, for you to try and attach David Duke to any individual or party.” You brought Trump into the discussion.


                      “Today Dr. Duke and Eric Striker of the Public Space… heaped praise on Ilhan Omar (D-New Somalia) for being the one person in Congress willing to notice AIPAC and the “dual” loyalty of many members of Congress.”

                    5. Duke came to public attention running an organization that, per the Anti-Defamation League had 3,000 members. (The ADL also said Bill Wilkinson’s rival outfit had 3,000 members; then Wilkinson had to go to bankruptcy court and admitted it had 1,800 members). He was, sometime later, elected to a seat in the Louisiana legislature and performed satisfactorily in a couple of statewide campaigns. Then he lost his seat and disappeared from Louisiana politics. Kind of inane to be insisting that Trump ‘denounce’ someone who was of no consequence before 1989 or after 1993 and with whom he has no association. (By the way, how many of the Democratic line-up have denounced Al Sharpton?),

                    6. (he did run for Senate in LA in 2016 as a Republican but I didn’t mention it).

                      He won 3% of the vote and came in 7th. The winning Republican was elected in the run off with 60% of the total.

                    7. Allan’s point was that he shouldn’t be associated with the Republicans. I didn’t do that, but he’s seems to be a Republican. The Proud Boys are following and supporting Donald Trump, Trump brought white nationalists into the White House. Steve Bannon left but Stephen Miller is still there writing his speeches and separating children from their families. Which of them aren’t Republicans? If you don’t want a label as a racist party, I suggest getting rid of the racists, or at least stop adopting racist policies.

                    8. “Allan’s point was that he shouldn’t be associated with the Republicans. I didn’t do that, but he’s seems to be a Republican. The Proud Boys are following and supporting Donald Trump, Trump brought white nationalists into the White House. Steve Bannon left but Stephen Miller is still there writing his speeches and separating children from their families. Which of them aren’t Republicans?”

                      He is an opportunist not much different than what you seem to avow. You certainly did associate Duke with Trump on this thread and others. Now you are calling Steve Bannon and Stephen Miller white nationalists. Did something happen two decades before they were born that makes you say they are white nationalists, like you did with Trump? Are you going to accuse Stephen Miller of being an anti-Semite like was done to Trump despite Trumps daughter being an orthodox Jew and Trump having Jewish grandchildren. Miller’s family is Jewish.

                      It is unseemly, Enigma, for you to try and attach David Duke to any individual or party and unseemly for you to call people white nationalists unless you are able to prove it. Remember Obama is the one that created a lot of this mess and the pictures of cages weren’t from the Trump era they were from Obama’s time in office.

                    9. It wouldn’t have made any difference at all Enigma. The organization had 3,000 members max. That he and Wilkinson were running klanlets doesn’t make their organizations larger or more consequential.

                      The $PLC conned a lot of donors back in the day into financing a suit against a different set of klanlets on behalf of a woman whose son had been kidnapped and murdered in 1981. She got all their assets: a quonset hut worth $52,000.

                    10. There have been three incarnations of the klan, Enigma. The first didn’t last long (about 7 years) but was quite violent and consequential. The second (incorporated in 1915, dissolved in 1944) was a fad organization that acquired a seven digit membership over a period of about 4 years, then evaporated almost as quickly, although a residue continued for another fifteen years or so. They were of some consequence in local areas while they lasted. The third incarnation dates from 1946; their founder died in 1949 and the organization fell apart into competing klanlets. Per the ADL, there were about 8,500 members in all ca. 1981, of which about 80% belonged to the three main organizations. The FBI has disagreed over the years. They maintained in 1975 that the sum of all membersships was around 2,200. About 2,000 has been the common estimate in the last several decades. Again, the bankruptcy filing in 1983 indicated that the ADL had over-estimated. Whether it’s 8,500 or 5,200 or 2,200 it doesn’t matter. It was inconsequential.

                      Between 1953 and 1982 klavern members were responsible for about 15 political murders. Five were the work of a local klavern in Greensboro, NC that had no affiliation with any larger body and four were the work of klaverns associated with United Klans of America or one of the organizations in its pedigree.

                    11. You’ll forgive me if I lump together the official Klan, White Knights, Loyal White Knights, Confederate White Knights, and all the other iterations into one group. For every official card carrying, dues paying member there were several who joined in and others who knew and said nothing. Amazing that such an inconsequential group managed to pull off a march on the Capitol with 30,000 people.


                    12. It seems DSS that Enigma referred everyone to the 1925 march on DC. What was his point? They had the membership at that time. Your comment “It was inconsequential.” had to do with the KKK long after 1925, but it appears that as usual Enigma is confused, making things up or doing “whatever”

                  1. Of course she should disavow David Duke, just as Trump should have without pretending he didn’t know who he was.

                    1. Have you heard or seen anyone in the media or Democrat party shout for her to disavow David Duke? I haven’t.

                    2. Nobody GAF about Omar but her mother, her constituents, the press, and AOC.

                      Trump is the president.

                    3. PS We like to call ourselves the Democratic Party, so if you could quit being a douche and call people by their names maybe we won’t think up an annoying nickname for Republicans (It’s not that hard).

                    4. I like the nickname Democraps but i never use it. Oops, I just did.

                      I also like the nickname Republicants too. Because they can’t seem to do what they often promise to do. The big deportations that will supposedly come next week are going to be an example of that. Just wait. That one is going to prove to have been a whopper. I’ll apologize to Trump for doubting him here if he delivers, however.

                    5. You feel offended by my calling it the Democrat party? Wow, don’t go into politics b/c you are too thin skinned. How about Demonrats party? Like that one better? Just look at Schumer, Schiff for Brains, Mad Maxine, Fat Jerry Nadler, et al, and the name fits perfectly…IMO, of course…

                      I don’t much care for the Republicants either, in case you were wondering…

                  2. David Duke’s getting senile. Maybe he likes Ihlan. She’s not a bad looking woman. And he’s a ladies man ya know. From Newsweek in 1991

                    “Not all of Duke’s Klan brethren were comfortable with his ascendancy. His obsessive anti-Semitism dwarfed his hatred of blacks, to the point where it even made some KKK members squirm. “He got enthralled with the [Nazi] idea,” says Tom Metzger, a former Klan organizer who eventually split to form the White Aryan Resistance, a violent California skinhead group. It was also clear to other Klansmen that there were two things just as important to Duke as white supremacy: women and money. Metzger says the women were often wives of other Klansmen. “His flagrant womanizing was an embarrassment to the movement,” he said. Duke denies any philandering. Others were concerned about his incessant fund raising through Christmas cards wishing recipients a “White Christmas.”

                    Some moneymaking schemes were even more outlandish. Writing under the pseudonym Mohammed X, Duke wrote “African Atto,” a street-fighting manual for blacks in urban racial combat. Duke says the mail-order book was designed to collect names of black militants, but former associates say it was a source of quick cash. Several years later he co-wrote “Finders Keepers,” a guide offering women advice on how to please men in bed. Duke says he wrote only one innocuous chapter on diet and exercise. He left the Knights of the KKK under a cloud in 1980. Bill Wilkinson, leader of a competing Klan group, arranged to have Duke videotaped trying to sell him the Knights’ mailing list for $35,000.”

                    SOME RACIST DUKE IS! “charlatan” is a word I have heard people use, but I would not know. and it’s great to be a nobody that doesn’t need to “disavow” anything.

                4. How about when Joe Biden said, “They want to put y’all back in chains…”

                  1. When i was young, my black classmates were agitated and often said that
                    “Reagan wants to send us back to Africa!” That’s the general level at which Democratic electioneering has stayed ever since.

                    It’s kind of like why I enjoyed Obama sometimes. He kind of steered clear of some of that nutty talk. Left it to goofs like Rev Wright, the “G-Damn America!” wierdo.

                5. There’s a whole lot more to say about Joe Biden, but I’ll just sum it up by using your own words, “His generic disavowal of racism doesn’t match his behavior.”

                6. Keep your accusations flowing Enigma. According to you Trump is a racist for a non event that occurred two decades before he was born and he is an anti-Semite with an Orthodox Jew daughter and a whole bunch of grandhildren that are Jewish.

                  Wear the tin foil hat. Nothing else has worked.

  7. I’d like to see the USG engage in civility and stop trying to kill other people. No war with Iran. End sanctions on all nations and begin the process of honest diplomacy.

    No War, it’s not just uncivilized, it’s evil.

    1. Unlike Orange Man, who lied when he said he was against military excursions, I believe you state the truth about your opinion Re. war. If only Americans would agree with then the all time most decorated US Marine, Major General Smedley Butler, that “…all wars are banker’s wars…”

      If that lying Orange piece of dung in the WH starts ANOTHER ME war, I hope, the day after, he dies a horrible tortured death and goes straight to hell.

      Seriously, I’d take Biden at this point.

      1. Almost everyone is against war but only fools make black and white statements on the subject. The best way to prevent a war is to keep oneself strong so no one would consider attacking or stepping over a line. Sometimes one has to engage to prevent a bigger and more disasterous war.

        Obama’s method of engagement was to degrade the military and use red lines that were meaningless. That increased the likelihood of war not decreased it and it caused instability in many areas of the world.

        1. Jill has no interest in the dilemmas actual policy makers face. It’s all about Jill striking attitudes. Nothing Jill says has any value.

  8. OT: A news alert I haven’t yet heard from the NYTImes

    Mexico becomes first country to approve USMCA
    by Zachary Halaschak | June 19, 2019 05:47 PM
    Mexico’s Senate voted overwhelmingly in favor of approving the U.S.-Mexico-Canada Agreement on trade, a deal that would replace the North American Free Trade Agreement.

    The measure passed with a 114-4 vote, bringing the agreement one step closer to fruition. Mexican President Andrés Manuel López Obrador convened a special legislative session to hold the vote after the Senate convened in April.

    “The USMCA is synonymous with opportunity in the short and long term,” Mexican Sen. Verónica Martínez García said of the pact.

    Meanwhile, the deal is running into some roadblocks getting through Congress. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has the authority to bring legislation on the matter before the chamber, but has expressed hesitation about the deal, which she says lacks adequate mechanisms to enforce its labor and environmental provisions.

    Canada has already introduced legislation through its parliament to ratify the agreement and Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is expected to lobby Democrats to support the USMCA during his visit to Washington, D.C., this week. He is reportedly meeting with Pelosi on Thursday.

    Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland said last week that Canada would be working “in tandem” with the U.S. in hammering out final passage of the historic trade deal.

    “We think of it as a kind of Goldilocks approach. Not too hot, not too cold. We’re not moving too fast, not moving too slow,” Freeland said.

    If the agreement between the three North American countries gets finalized, it will replace NAFTA, which was established in 1994. In October 2018, the three countries agreed to work toward ratifying the USMCA.

  9. Biden to Booker:

    Get back to me when you apologize for sexually assaulting men in public restrooms.

  10. Sen. Cory Booker likes white boys with money…Lots of money

    In 2010, Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg gave Newark, NJ $100 million to fix schools & Cory Booker was Mayor at the time.

    Almost $50 million went to teachers’ union contracts and $20 million to consultants. Where is the rest of the $100 million Cory? Also It was actually $200 million. A $100 million was matched by a VC firm. To rephrase the question, where is the rest of the $200 million Cory?

  11. The lack civility is evident among those on the left. A black reporter for Fox reporting on an impeach Trump rally was told to return to Fox News “where there’s more cotton for you to pick.

    1. Alan, an ‘Impeach Trump Rally” could include anyone off the street. Nevertheless, I would want to see documentation on that from a recognizable source.

      1. Peter it was an “anyone off the street” and there are loads more like him but the MSM doesn’t report that except if it is done by a supporter of Trump (or a Democratic operative acting as a Trump supporter) and then it is generalized to the group.

        What is a better recognizeable source than Hannity and the black reporter along with the witnesses? That statement was reaffirmed. But you don’t accept Hannity even when he is proven right time and time again and even though the New York Times will at a much later date report the same news never admitting that it was first heard on Hannity some time earlier.

        1. So there ‘is’ no documentation.

          ‘Or’, the offender was just someone off the street not necessarily affiliated with any Democratic organization.

          1. Peter, there was no video documentation just like there was no documentation for most of the complaints against the right and Donald Trump, however, you accepted those ‘anonymous’ reports that mostly turned out to be partially or completely false.

            We have had a lot of black conservatives accosted by Liberal Democrats and I don’t hear you complaining. In fact you don’t complain about all the black kids that are gunned down in our Democratically controlled cities. You don’t even care about black baby killing. You use blacks as a rallying call and for virtue signalling. I think that is disgraceful. All Lives Matter. Color should not be an issue. Victimhood is a dangerous game and leads nowhere except for the few that prosper off of suffering.

            1. Alan, if you care about Blacks getting ‘gunned down in our cities’, complain to the NRA. They are the group most responsible for the availability of guns. It’s not like Democratic mayors are okay with gang violence. Gang violence costs counties hundreds of millions a year in medical costs.

              And the fact that you would even post such a clueless comment illustrates once again how rightwing media dumbs-people-down.

              1. You really think it’s a bunch of NRA crackers who are responsible for blacks having guns in cities? Come on.

                Anyhow they have second amendment rights too being citizens and all. Say, did you know there’s something in Dred Scott case about that? Antebellum Southern criminal codes prevented them from buying guns. ‘

                Just sayin!

                1. Kurtz, you seem to be saying we should make guns cheap and plentiful to urban Blacks as a form of ‘reparations’. How utterly stupid!

                  1. I didn’t say that, but I will think about that as a proposal and get back to you.

                    Now I tell you Peter, if you go to a Lake County gun show, there’s a big one they have regularly up in Greyslake, with hundreds of vendors, you will see mostly old white guys. The predominant “other” is Mexican dudes. Mexicans love guns. And in Mexico, they can’t have them. Unless they work for the government, or they’re banditos. And you see how well that works for Mexico, not!

                    1. I would add of course that a lot of white women like guns too. And, Korean guys. The Korean American guys are into guns too. I am ok to shoot with them anytime! Good safe gun handling practices and sensible opinions and serious attitudes. But the Mexicans kind of scare me. Maybe it’s all the cowboy hats and big belt buckles, conjures up images of honchos in pickups having had too many budweisers getting loco. But i am just speculating, have not had the pleasure. Which also reminds me…

                      One time, decades ago, we went to an indoor gun range in Dupage county. See as you know, Crook county doesn’t have gun ranges. So we went to a new place, and here were also some black guys, holding guns sideways and talking too loud. We got the heck out of there fast. I didn’t want to catch an AD from somebody goofing around.

              2. “complain to the NRA”

                The left always wants to blame law abiding groups and people while neglecting their responsibility. The NRA doesn’t support illegal gun ownership. How many kids shot in Chicago were shot with legal guns? The left is unable to stop illegal guns from being used to kill black kids. That might solve a problem and that is not something the left is interested in.

    2. There’s plenty of incivility on both sides.

      Now give us a source for your little tale.

      1. The black reporter and whatever crew was there.

        There may be incivility on both sides but it overflows from the left.

          1. The black reporter and those of his crew.

            The incivilityis much greater on the left. They don’t even want people to have freedom of speech and have been known to riot and burn buildings to prevent free speech from conservatives.

            1. “The incivility is much greater on the left.”

              You’re so full of it, Allan.

  12. Any word on when Biben will schedule a news conference to submit his groveling apology.

  13. ” Civility is now a weakness. It is rage not results that is now the measure for politicians on both sides.”

    The incivility on the left is such that its leaders and its followers consider “incivility” or more specifically being politically correct as the major part of their platform. That differs from the right which deals with the issues at hand and though there is some incivility that doesn’t stop the right from working with one another or working across the aisle.

  14. Joe Biden made a reasonable comment. Of course Democrats attack him. This is why Biden actually has a strong chance against Trump.

    I don’t beat up on old time Democrats for favoring their majority population. That’s what “democracy” is actually supposed to do, favor the majority.

    Now it’s just come to mean “protection of individual rights at the perpetual expense of the majority even unto insane conclusions”

    DeBlasio is a scum

  15. Another sign that the United States is Balkanizing as a country when you cannot even make a favorable observation about a political opponent, let alone compliment them.

    So what’s going to keep us together? Magic dirt? Magic constitution? We don’t even agree on what it means. American exceptionalism? What’s that, but the desire to foist our system and ideas on others (for their own good, of course).

    I welcome a divorce from this cesspool of a country. I’m too old to participate in making that happen but my grandchildren will not be.

    Let the leftists have their multicult “utopia”.


    1. The irony is that the system of capitalism is the economic driving engine between equality which is also another word for social atomization. Social atomization proceeds apace which only makes those who are rich, stronger, vis a vis all social rivals.

      The two party system cleverly divides all social groups which could oppose the trend.

      Which is why globalization is actually the most likely outcome, due to capitalism.

      Capitalism first used the nation state to destroy feudal empires, now it will destroy nation states that stand it its way as well.

      Marx had some observations about history that somewhat predicted this– and Lenin too, see his essay “Imperialism as a Late Stage of Capitalism”

      Conservatives don’t see how money has driven changes in law which have dismantled social groups that formerly limited the operation of big money. What social organizations that were formerly powerful? Ethnic groups, churches, and yes the family. Big money operated politically and socially to attack these things, always based on hand wringing naivete that laws can “fix” everything, a sort of utopian inclination inherent in the American puritannical psyche.

      In Europe the right wingers have understood this dynamic, and are cautious in their embrace of rampant capitalism. The old guard lingers on in memory if not in person. But here we had no millenial social organization founded on aristocracy to anchor us. We were born under liberterian fantasies and they have grown in every generation and now well funded “think tanks” operate strategically to cripple the right from sufficient organizational resistance against the trend.

      Trump was an exception to that trend to some degree, emerging from the instincts of the people, but, his shelf life is numbered in 1-5 years and it will take a much longer window than that to arrest the slouch towards global social atomization.

    2. “I welcome a divorce from this cesspool of a country.”

      Where would you go? The rest of the anglophone world (Britain, Canada, Australia) is already pretty much down the toilet already. The healthiest countries (Japan, Eastern Europe) have remained healthy because they severely restrict immigration (this includes you) and haven’t bought into the non-sense of multiculturalism. It’s best to remain here and try to salvage what we can.

      1. New Zealand is where the rich people are headed when the lights go out here.

      2. Jay

        I appreciate your comments. Yes, my family left the worker’s paradise of Cuba in 1961. Were part of the Cuban middle class but lost everything. I’m still amazed at upper middle class liberals and Hollywood types who are sympathetic to that regime. Wonder how they would like living there as ordinary Cubans are forced to.

        The difference is that we received no welfare, food stamps, push 2 for Spanish or any other type of government benefits. Had to assimilate quickly.

        You are right in the sense that Eastern Europe, Russia and Japan restrict immigration and have maintained cultural homogeneity. They were also untouched by the Enlightenment.

        Diversity is never a strength but often a source of tension and conflict. If it were a strength people would gravitate to it normally and naturally, without being coerced. You can have minorities if you have a strong, unapologetic, dominant culture but not multiculturalism and maintain any source of cohesion or social capital.

        No, I think we are too far gone. Trump cannot “save” us, he only buys us a little time. Wait until the entire country is like California.


        1. Antonio, I’m here in Hollywood. No one’s sympathetic the Cuban regime. And no one’s sympathetic to the Venezuelan regime. Those are just stupid talking points from rightwing media.

          1. Stupid talking points? How about actual video? I remember seeing Barack Obama and his family all smiling and laughing and doing “the wave” at a baseball game with murderous dictator Castro. I remember Obama taking his entire family to Cuba with him while he was “doing official US business.” I remember Barack Obama arranging a group photo during his Cuba trip so that the mural of Che Guavara was prominently displayed on a building in the background while Obama stood, proudly, chin up in the air, as he always does. He sickens me.

          2. Bull, some of the Hollywood stars were Castro’s guests and fawned all over him. Their statements to the public about Cuba and Castro should be considered obscene.

        2. Antonio, things run in cycles. The only question is will the cycle change earlier or later. If earlier the time bought will benefit all Americans now and in future generations. If later we will all end up facing a Castro, Venzuela or Stalin. The Hollywood elites are mostly narcisists that don’t give a dam- about anyone else.

    3. Antonio,
      I gave sine optimism mixed in with my cynicism. If there’s a Biden v. Trump, the comedy alone will help keep us together.
      I’m waiting for Biden to point out that his state, Delaware, was a slave state while he’s pandering for Southern votes.
      And the two of those guys on the debate stage? 🤗😄😂

  16. ‘Biden singled out the late Sens. James O. Eastland of Mississippi and Herman E. Talmadge of Georgia, who were both steadfastly opposed to civil rights and racial integration.’

    Biden failed to mention Harry Byrd, US Senator, Ku Klux Klan member, and mentor to both Bill and Hillary Clinton; J. William Fulbright, an avowed segregationist whom the US government honored by funding a scholarship program that exists today; and the many Democrat Senators who voted against the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

    1. Robert Byrd, not Harry Byrd, was a klavern organizer.

      Harry Byrd Sr. died in 1966, when the Clintons were in college (and had not yet met). Harry Byrd Jr. left the Democratic Party in 1970 and retired in 1983; I don’t think he had any association of note with either Clinton. The Byrds were Bourbon Democrats, a descriptor that doesn’t apply to Clinton or to Jimmy Carter or Robert Byrd (or to Orval Faubus, for that matter).

      Come to think of it, dont’t think Robert Byrd had any special association with the Clintons, bar that they were all prominent Democrats.

      I think Bill was an intern or some such in Wm. Fulbright’s office at one point. Don’t believe Hellary had much to do with him except via Bill.

      1. I fondly remember Robert Byrd Jr a statesman and loyal to his constituents from WV. A staunch anticommunist! and today they call him an “isolationist’ which means, he was against needless foreign wars.

        More Democrats like Robert Byrd would make this a better country

        they always talk about him being a klucker. ok, naughty naughty! but what else did he do before office?

        from Britannica:

        “He worked as a butcher, a coal miner, and a grocery store proprietor before launching his political career by getting elected to the West Virginia House of Delegates in 1946. He served in the state senate (1951–52) before winning election to the U.S. House of Representatives in 1952 and to the U.S. Senate in 1958.”

        Honest labor! Show me the Congress”people” who have resumes like that today.

  17. ‘ Welcome, Ladies and Gentlemen, to the Old Virginia Theater for this evening’s performance by Uncle Joe Biden and Uncle Ralph Blackface of our favorite songs from the days of culture and civility. How we long for those days again, of the field hands working the plantation, the mammies caring for the babies, the house Toms and Jemimas cooking and cleaning and preparing for Saturday’s cotillion. Yes’um, they know Massa Ralph and Massa Joe will keep them in line, yes, suh’

  18. Typical of today’s fake outrage – or maybe the liberals really do get upset about serious and timely comments – perhaps they can’t handle the truth..

    I am no fan of Mr. Biden, but he made some good points and kudos for stating his opinion openly.

    The grievance mongers have jumped all over those comments and once again brought public discourse down several notches.

    When I hear black people jump all over this kind of issue, I just shake my head and think: “There they go again.”.

    Booker, Harris et al do their cause no favors with their trying to score political points off their blackness.

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