Bizarre, Criminal law

Will The Corona Coughing Prank Go Viral? Police Investigation New Possible Trend

We have been discussing the truly disgusting teenage prank of licking ice cream at food stores and then posting the act on social media. Now, there is a far more chilling variation of teenagers coughing on fruits and vegetables and posing their acts to terrify other shoppers.

The Purcellville Police Department and other police departments are investigating the trend. There have been sporadic reports of individuals with Corona intentionally trying to spread the virus.

The police have been trying to deter the licking prank with criminal charges. Previous cases have resulted in felony charges of tampering with a consumer product. This latest variation could be subject to even more stringent sentencing given the threat of the pandemic and the desire to cause public panic. The act can be defined as a terroristic threat in some states. However, even the felony tampering charges can result in a decade or more of jail time.

News of this prank has arisen at the same time that disturbing new research shows that this remarkably contagious virus can live on surfaces longer than anticipated. A new study published in the New England Journal of Medicine found that the virus is live for up to three hours in aerosols, up to four hours on copper, up to 24 hours on cardboard and up to two to three days on plastic and stainless steel.

204 thoughts on “Will The Corona Coughing Prank Go Viral? Police Investigation New Possible Trend”

  1. Chinese executive who called Xi a ‘clown’ over coronavirus response ‘is missing’

    Friends of the high-profile former property developer say they have been unable to contact him for three days

    Ren Zhiqiang has previously been punished for public criticism of the ruling Chinese Communist party. Photograph: AP

    An influential former Chinese property executive who called president Xi Jinping a “clown” over a speech he made last month about the government’s efforts to battle the coronavirus has gone missing, according to his friends.

    Ren Zhiqiang, a member of China’s ruling Communist party and a former top executive of state-controlled property developer Huayuan Real Estate Group, has not been contactable since 12 March, three of his friends told Reuters.

    “Many of our friends are looking for him,” his close friend and businesswoman Wang Ying said in a statement to Reuters, describing them as being “extremely anxious”.

    “Ren Zhiqiang is a public figure and his disappearance is widely known. The institutions responsible for this need to give a reasonable and legal explanation for this as soon as possible,” she said.
    Xi Jinping has buried the truth about coronavirus
    Ma Jian
    Read more

    Calls made by Reuters to Ren’s mobile phone went unanswered.

    The Beijing police did not immediately respond to requests by phone and fax for comment on Sunday. China’s state council information office did not immediately respond to a faxed request for comment.

    An essay Ren shared with people he knew in recent weeks took aim at a speech Xi made on 23 February, which state media reported was teleconferenced to 170,000 party officials nationwide. Copies of his essay were later posted online by others.

    In the essay, which does not mention Xi by name, Ren said after studying the speech he “saw not an emperor standing there exhibiting his ‘new clothes’, but a clown stripped naked who insisted on continuing being emperor,” according to a version posted by China Digital Times, a US-based website.

    He also said it revealed a “crisis of governance” within the party, and that a lack of free press and speech had prevented the outbreak from being tackled sooner, causing the situation to worsen.

    Ren’s disappearance comes as censorship over how local media and online users discuss the epidemic has tightened in recent weeks.

    The coronavirus, which emerged in China late last year, has infected more than 80,000 people in the country, killing 3,199.
    China activist who called Xi clueless on coronavirus faces years in jail for ‘subversion’
    Read more

    Ren, who gained the nickname “Cannon Ren” for previous critiques posted on social media, was put on probation from the party for a year in 2016 as part of a punishment for publicly criticising government policy.

    That year, the government ordered platforms such as the Twitter-like Weibo to shut down Ren’s social media accounts, which at the time had more than 30 million online followers, saying he had been “spreading illegal information”.

    Beijing has framed the battle against coronavirus as a “People’s War” led by Xi.

    While the draconian measures to fight the virus, including the lockdown of the city of Wuhan, have proven effective at containing it even as the disease spreads rapidly in other countries, China has faced criticism for suppressing information in the outbreak’s early days.

    – The Guardian

  2. Here is more reasoned analysis without inflammatory rhetoric. It includes positives and negatives to President Trump’s actions. Trump’s position was that it was not reasonable to keep the pandemic response team fully assembled between outbreaks. He thought it was better to save he money, identify key individuals, but only call them up in time of need. That has some merit. However, the criticism mainly stems from not maintaining one individual already named to coordinate such as response. This would save time. That is a valid point.

    No scientists are “muzzled.” There is always a chain of command, whether in private industry research labs, academic labs, or government agencies, for who is going to speak with whom, and when. Going through channels is not “muzzling.” China “muzzled” its own doctors by arresting them for disturbing the social order when they warned of an outbreak.

    Notice, none of this has spurious clams like “defunded”, “waged war”, etc.

    https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/democrats-misleading-coronavirus-claims/

    “As we said, Trump has proposed cuts, every year, to the CDC, but they haven’t been enacted by Congress. In his fiscal 2021 budget, he also proposed reduced funding for global health programs and funding to the World Health Organization and the Pan American Health Organization. The president defended the proposed cuts when asked about them in a Feb. 26 press conference on the coronavirus.

    “We can get money and we can increase staff,” Trump said. “We know all the good people. It’s a question I asked the doctors before. Some of the people we cut, they haven’t been used for many, many years. And if — if we have a need, we can get them very quickly. And rather than spending the money — and I’m a business person — I don’t like having thousands of people around when you don’t need them. When we need them, we can get them back very quickly.””

    “Tom Bossert, a former White House homeland security adviser who helped develop the administration’s biodefense strategy and was the designated lead for coordinating the American response to a biological crisis, was also reportedly pushed out when Bolton took over. Bossert resigned in April 2018, a day after Bolton started as national security adviser. Three anonymous sources told the Washington Post that Bolton requested his resignation.

    Contrary to some recent news reports, Bossert was replaced with a series of people, but the job of coordinating a pandemic response does not appear to have followed. When Trump announced his coronavirus task force on Jan. 29, he did not name current homeland security adviser Julia Nesheiwat in any capacity.

    Just because Ziemer’s position was discontinued does not mean everyone who was part of the team was fired or that all of the functions of the directorate ceased. According to reporting by the Atlantic and the Washington Post, some team members were shifted to other groups, and others took over some of Ziemer’s duties. An NSC spokesman at the time said that the administration “remains committed to global health, global health security and biodefense, and will continue to address these issues with the same resolve under the new structure.”

    But the lack of someone in the White House to coordinate the response to a widespread disease outbreak in the U.S. is something numerous experts and groups at the time had cautioned against.”

    Biden went too far when he claimed that Trump is “muzzling” government scientists and “hasn’t allowed his scientists to speak” about the coronavirus.

    It’s true that government scientists were told to clear their public appearances through a newly created coronavirus task force. But scientists, including Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, have since made numerous public appearances to talk about the epidemic.

    “Biden’s comments stem from a New York Times story on Feb. 27 that said the White House moved “to tighten control of coronavirus messaging by government health officials and scientists, directing them to coordinate all statements and public appearances with the office of Vice President Mike Pence, according to several officials familiar with the new approach.”

    According to the Washington Post, Fauci told lawmakers during a House briefing that day, Feb. 28, that he was not being “gagged” or “muzzled,” though he did cancel appearances on some Sunday talk shows after Pence was tapped to lead the coronavirus response.

    According to the Post, Fauci told House members “that the change was necessary because such appearances must always be cleared, and the clearance process restarted after Pence was named Wednesday to head the response.”

    “Look, he said to everybody: ‘I am not being muzzled. I want to clear that up,’” Democratic Rep. Mark Takano told the Post about the exchange. “But that when the vice president took over, he was already booked. They said: ‘Look, stop. We want to just reevaluate everything. So don’t go on those programs yet.’”

  4. This is a great article. It should remind everyone of Roosevelt’s declaration that the only thing we have to fear, is fear itself. The author addresses these points:

    Table of Contents
    1. Total cases are the wrong metric
    2. Time lapsing new cases gives us perspective
    3. On a per-capita basis, we shouldn’t be panicking
    4. COVID-19 is spreading
    5. Watch the Bell Curve
    6. A low probability of catching COVID-19
    7. Common transmission modes
    8. COVID-19 is likely to burn off in the summer
    9. Children and Teens aren’t at risk
    10. Strong, but unknown viral effect
    11. What about asymptomatic spread?
    12. 93% of people who think they are positive aren’t
    13. 1% of cases will be severe
    14. Declining fatality rate
    15. So what should we do?
    16. Start with basic hygiene
    17. More data
    18. Open schools
    19. Open up public spaces
    20. Support business and productivity
    21. People fear what the government will do, not infection
    22. Expand medical capacity
    23. Don’t let them forget it and vote

    https://medium.com/six-four-six-nine/evidence-over-hysteria-covid-19-1b767def5894

    1. Newsmax just presented a doctor who said that most people don’t know they have COVID-19 and that Spring Breakers are spreading a disease they are unaware they have. When it is over, the communists will be shown to have exacerbated, enhanced and taken full advantage of this panic. After that, they will retain their communist redistribution plans forever just like the redistribution plans of Franklin D. Roosevelt and his merry band of communists created 100 years ago, expanded exponentially and caused America to fund to this day, such as affirmative action, quotas, welfare, food stamps, rent control, social services, forced busing, minimum wage, utility subsidies, WIC, TANF, HAMP, HARP, Agriculture, Commerce, Education, Labor, Energy, Obamacare, Social Security, Social Security Disability, Social Security Supplemental Income, Medicare, Medicaid, “Fair Housing” laws, “Non-Discrimination” laws, etc.

      Nowhere does the word charity exist in the Constitution. The Constitution does not grant the Congress any power to tax for charity. The Supreme Court has failed in its duty to accept that which is legal and to deny that which is not. The Supreme Court is the rotten core of constitutional America.

      1. George,
        The political class have conditioned the citizen class to be reactive to what’s in the weeds. That was the point of Jefferson’s statement in the DoI; that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Our long train of abuses is apparently not long enough.

        1. Olly,

          Thank you. I stand edified and gratified. I missed those critical, essential words.

          Enough confiscatory taxation to satisfy the greed of leeching parasites and the desire for power of the despots. Enough central planing, control of the means of production (regulation), redistribution of wealth and social engineering. Enough of the hysteria, incoherence, chaos and anarchy of the communist “resistance.”

          Enough of the communist “…history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these states.”
          _____________________________

          “Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these states.”

          – Thomas Jefferson
          ________________

          Now Americans know why the Founders gave them the 2nd Amendment…

          “…if you can keep it.”

  5. Once this ‘panic’ and ‘hysteria’ over the COVID-19 outbreak is over, which I predict will be soon (Most viral pandemics like SARS showed a similar fate) , most studies will show that we over-reacted. Sheltering in place and shutting down the country is practically a joke.

    It won’t stop the spread of covid-19 or any other virus for that matter. Covid-19 has already been shown to follow the bell-curve of most viruses and will fall the way of the SARS virus. The financial impact, the hording and hysteria will do more harm to this country than any known virus. Judges, Doctors, and other well-off Americans will get through this without any financial bump in the road. But what about Joe, the average American?

    1. “Once this ‘panic’ and ‘hysteria’ over the COVID-19 outbreak is over,…”

      Shut up you idiot, you’re gonna ruin the whole scam!

      I hope this subversive doesn’t inadvertently run into an Arkancide tomorrow.
      ____________________________________________________________

      “You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it’s an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.”

      – Rahm Emanuel

  6. Reminds me of a portion of one of Robert Heinleins books. “There is no such thing as a juvenile delinquent because delinquency means failing in a duty or responsibility. Responsibility and duty are adult traits. But for every child or juvenile in trouble there is an adult or adults delinquent in their duty.”

  7. During this COVID-19 pandemic, there is a question. What is your tolerance to pain?

  8. Among the first changes in my shopping routine, I skipped the open salad bar and purchased sealed, prepared salads. That was before this inane and disgusting idiocy. If these same losers are into the recent toilet seat and door knob licking challenge, they may do us a favor and cull themselves from the herd.

  9. Rumor Mills Cranking Up

    I personally think we’re entering a phase where legitimate, truthful news is beginning to sound so bizarre that insane rumors could thrive. And this column, along with Darren’s essay, alludes to the rumor-friendly climate that has dawned.

    Therefore the last thing we need is a Captain Quig of a president ranting at the media in daily briefings. Events are unfolding in such a way, that certain factions may seek to remove Trump from power ‘before’ the November election. And those factions may not be obvious partisans. Instead the initiative could come from sober-minded figures within the administration acting in the ‘public’s interest.

      1. Karen, one of those is an completey ineffectual concern, the other monumental. Can you guess which is which?

        1. Blaming Trump and Republicans in general for the actions of others is a significant concern. Politically weaponizing a plague takes a serious moral failing.

          1. Tell your hero Karen. That’s what he does every day for 2 hours now while making excuses for where we are.

              1. Karen, you’ll have to point out where I “blamed people for the actions of others.”

                Like most I try to not do that.

    3. Events are unfolding in such a way, that certain factions may seek to remove Trump from power ‘before’ the November election.

      NEWSFLASH: That effort was initiated prior to his inauguration and has remained unabated. Trump’s presidency however has weathered that political pandemic and ironically it will be his leadership that will get us through the coronavirus pandemic.

      So there’s that.

  10. Viruses are stable across several platforms in terms of minutes to weeks, depending on their family, order, species and strain. Ebola virus maintains infectivity for up to 8 days in a corpse, Influenza A & B virus 24-48 hrs on fomites, Hepatitis C virus 6 weeks in fluids, HIV ~ 7 days on fomites, Hepatitis B ~ 7 days on fomites, Measles virus – 3 days. The NEJM article you mention is nice to know information but we already knew that viruses are stable proteins.

    The science of Coronavirus has been evolving since the 1960s when it was first identified. It certainly existed prior to that “discovery”. Almost 20 years ago various scientific articles published in reputable medical journals called attention to the pathogenicity of Coronavirus. What we are witnessing now is not new. We saw Coronavirus in 2002-2003 causing SARS (10-20% mortality) and MERS (50% mortality). We knew then that they were severely pathogenic. Scientists researched these deadly viral epidemics, published their scientific findings (see below) and brought it to the attention to global leaders. Nothing evolved from these scientific papers almost 20 years later.

    Thus when China alerted the WHO on Dec 31, 2019 to a cluster of pneumonia cases in Wuhan, China, and when it was later identified in January 2020 that Coronavirus was the cause, the political leaders had already known for almost 20 years that Coronavirus is deadly.

    Trump, a non-politician and non-scientist, has been sucker punched by political pathogens seeking to discredit him even if the historical body of scientific evidence states the pathogenicity of this virus is well known.

    Those entities blaming Trump for “delays” and harming Americans, ignore the evolving scientific literature on Coronavirus. They choose to stoke fears and foment panic (like the kids in the produce dept of grocery stores) in direct opposition to what Dr Anthony Faucci has stated not to do.

    If you find cause to charge these kids, then you should have charged NYT, CNN, Washington Post, Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, et al, long ago for stoking fear and panic all too effectively

    April 2003: Coronavirus as a possible cause of severe acute respiratory syndrome – The Lancet 
    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(03)13077-2/fulltext

    The outbreak of SARS is unusual in several ways, especially in the appearance of clusters of patients with pneumonia in health-care workers and family contacts…. However, a virus belonging to the family Coronaviridae was isolated from the lung biopsy and nasopharyngeal aspirate of two SARS patients and other patients with SARS had a serological response to this virus.

    The family Coronaviridae includes the genus Coronavirus and Torovirus. They are enveloped RNA viruses that cause disease in human beings and animals. The previously known human coronaviruses, types 229E and OC43 are a major cause of the common cold.6 They can occasionally cause pneumonia in older adults, neonates, or immunocompromised patients.7, 8 Coronaviruses have been reported to be an important cause of pneumonia in military recruits, accounting for up to 30% of cases in some studies.9 Human coronaviruses can infect neurons, and viral RNA has been detected in the brain of patients with multiple sclerosis.10 

    Nov 2005: History and Recent Advances in Coronavirus Discovery : The Pediatric Infectious Disease Journal 
    https://journals.lww.com/pidj/fulltext/2005/11001/history_and_recent_advances_in_coronavirus.12.aspx

    The SARS epidemic was a dramatic reminder that animal coronaviruses are potential threats to the human population, although the exact mechanism of species-to-species spread of the SARS coronavirus remains obscure….

    It seems clear that the coronaviruses infecting humans and causing respiratory disease are heterogeneous and quite widely distributed among groups I and II. It may be that some of the newer coronaviruses represent strains similar to the original B814 and OC strains that could not be further characterized in the 1960s. Additional human coronavirus strains will very likely be discovered, which stresses the need for further investigation into the virology and etiology of these infectious organisms.

    1. Regarding Above:

      Here Crazed Idiot presents a bizarre mix of seemingly straight medical news coupled with attacks on mainstream media.

        1. Olly, if you think Crazed Idiot enhances the quality of this blog, your standards are are shockingly low.

          1. It would be rather embarrassing for you if I were. There are two reasonable reasons I’ve named him Paint Chips. 1. While he cannot settle on one user name, I can. 2. He has yet to prove he has a functioning left half of his brain.

            1. Grow up Olly. It’s not like everyone here can’t similarly put nicknames on those they disagree with, but most of us are adult enough to not do that. It demeans you, not Seth.

              2. It’s not like everyone here can’t similarly put nicknames on those they disagree with, but most of us are adult enough to not do that.

                Well gosh, I wasn’t aware Crazed Idiot or *sshole, were terms of endearment. And those are just recent examples that prove you to be a hypocrite. I meant that as a compliment. 🙂

                Anyway, when I value your opinion, you’ll know it.

                  1. btb,
                    Using those names is not what makes you a hypocrite. Claiming you are adult enough to not do that. does. The archives prove that to be true.

                  2. https://jonathanturley.org/2020/03/19/they-dont-want-all-the-gays-dropping-dead-fox-regular-under-fire-for-remarks-on-san-fran-shelter-order/comment-page-2/#comment-1932816

                    You have called me a great many names, Bythebook. For instance, you said the facts I shared on SF was screed, idiot, un-American, etc. I have more. A lot more. Would you like more examples of your behavior? Perhaps I will create a list of every name you’ve called me and trot them out to you regularly. Perhaps it will create an improvement? At least it will point out hypocrisy.

                    I wish people could have interesting, two way conversations about the facts and opinions, rather than trench warfare. But with the blaming Republicans and Trump for a global pandemic, the fields have been salted. Such warfare accomplishes nothing when we should be reaching across the aisle.

                    1. Karen, I said your screed was BS. That’s it.

                      “screed – a long speech or piece of writing, typically one regarded as tedious.”

                      I later in that post questioned why right wingers continually attack cities and states in America and noted those on the left – with a very few exceptions – do not. You regularly generalize about Democrats and how terrible they are, and often for imagined positions which I – a full on Democrat – do not hold. In this case, you are someone who regularly attacks cities and states who you imagine are your enemies. It is not very “American” of you to do so.

                    2. Bythebooks’ name calling just in the past couple of days:

                      screed
                      idiot
                      Unamerican
                      numnuts
                      go to Walmart and get sushi

                      You are not telling the truth when you claim to be the adult in the room who doesn’t call people names or make up insulting nicknames. I would be hard pressed to find a single conversation in which you have been polite or respectful towards me. And I’ve never attacked your or called you vile names. It makes me wonder how you treat others in person.

                    3. I don’t attack cities. I criticize the Democrat misguided policies that made a mess of certain cities. I live in CA. I live the consequences of Democrat policies every day. Here are a few examples of how explicitly Democrat politicians have made it more difficult for Californians:

                      1. Raised the threshold for felony theft to $950. Now there is more shoplifting. People push full carts out of grocery stores during the pandemic with impunity. The cops won’t even try to find shoplifters anymore, because what’s the point? Nothing will happen to them. Since the cops won’t arrest anyone, there is no record of all the crime in the statistics. The state can hide the exponential increase in shoplifting that way.
                      2. Emptied jails which increased crime
                      3. Enabled homeless encampments with right to sleep, right to park, and right to urinate policies. Viewed moving homeless on as inhumane. Now there is a homeless encampment in front of my husband’s work, putting him and his employees in a health hazard.
                      4. High gas prices
                      5. CARB decided, without a vote, that heavy vehicles prior to 2010 may no longer be registered. Water haulers are now having difficulty staying open, as are septic companies to pump the tanks. People suddenly can’t haul their horse trailers. When your well runs dry, you rely on a water hauler. Without one, that expensive CA property you’ve paid a mortgage on and property taxes for years just went down to zero value.
                      6. We get taxed on the non permeable square footage of our property, supposedly to help the drought. That means that every dog house, horse shelter, well pump shed, roof, tack room, and garden shed gets taxed. This leads to blight and incentivizes people not to care for their animals. Putting up a horse shelter to shade against the arid sun creates a tax.
                      7. Got taxed once again for wildfire tax
                      8. Permit process requires expensive permits, deep footings, and an architect for any structure greater than 10 X 10 feet. You can’t put up a barn or a horse shelter without spending thousands of dollars. Creates blight and interferes with people caring for their animals. Our old metal barn needs to be replaced, but with the CA permitting process, it would cost as much as building a house.
                      9. High taxes drive businesses from the state
                      10. Every year they propose new taxes. They are going after Prop 13 protection for businesses. That may finally be the stake that drives Silicon Valley and Hollywood from the state. Those who don’t do the math cannot understand that this would drive up the cost of every good and service in the state. So many of my friends have left the state, or plan to, over the high taxes.
                      11. Sanctuary cities. The state will not cooperate with ICE detainers, even for convicted rapists and murderers. Illegal immigrants are eligible for cheaper auto insurance than legal residents and citizens. They are eligible for a great many benefits that legal residents and citizens pay for.
                      12. Common Core, the Democrat goose egg. Graduates are even less college ready in math than ever before, thanks to Democrat politicians mucking up mathematics. The kids spend interminable months learning new gimmicks instead of practicing actual math. It takes for bloody ever to move on to the next topic. I teach my son how to do real math, so he can just get the answer rapidly. Everyone has stories of their kids breaking down in tears over these complicated gimmicks that take forever to solve a simple math problem. Regroup. Draw a number line. Use the Lattice Method. My son once tearfully asked me why he couldn’t just divide the division problem to get the answer. Why did he have to draw all these charts and diagrams.

                      The state panders to those who break the law, and treats taxpayers like they need to just shut up and keep paying, and stop whining about the high cost of doing business, or all the crime. Just shut up and pay. Kind of how they brush off the complaints by the black community about all the illegal immigrants taking entry level jobs that they need. Shut up and keep voting Democrat.

                      If a policy creates harm, you bet I take issue with it.

                    5. Oh, and Bythebook, you regularly make fun of rural people and red states.

                      Bumf()*k states, and go get sushi at Walmart, remember?

                      You are a terrible snob.

                    1. Karen, that was in response to mespo, who with his pal TIA regularly attack me personally.. Maybe you noticed.

                    2. If you don;t wished to be attacked, try being scrupulous with the truth, among other things.

                    3. “If you don;t wished to be attacked, try being scrupulous with the truth, among other things.”

                      DSS, I don’t know if you or some others recognize, but when one replies to another where the reply button is absent the computer program attributes the reply to a name but not necessarily the name the reply is meant for. In this case anyone reading the email would think your reply was to Karen but I think you intended it to be a reply to one of Anon’s aliases.

                  4. And another one, in which the adult Bythebook, whom we should all emulate, tells us to go get sushi at Walmart. So charming. And that rapier wit cuts deep, does it not? How can you defend against such cutting witticisms as go get sushi from Walmart? You know, no one cares so deeply about his fellow man, especially the hard working rural Americans, as Bythebook. He really respects us as the salt of the Earth. Why, he would sooner lick a doorknob at Costco than disdain someone for not being a coastal Elite or of the same opinions as his own. He is a real example of tolerance for dissenting ideas and opinions. In fact, he would recreate Greek philosophical discussions.

                    Thank you for providing such a moving example of the best that we can be during these difficult times.

                    https://jonathanturley.org/2020/03/19/they-dont-want-all-the-gays-dropping-dead-fox-regular-under-fire-for-remarks-on-san-fran-shelter-order/comment-page-2/#comment-1932842

                    2. PS Karen, you jumped in to attack my posting style after I called Olly on using a derogatory nickname for a particular poster which is popular with like minded right wingers. In the past you have spoken against that kind of behavior as well. What is your point here? This is not the Bakersfield Quilting Group blog (sorry, couldn’t help myself) and you know it. I try to stay on the issues but I’ll throw an elbow and mock positions of those I think deserve it. Sorry if that’s too rough for you, but I was right to call out the stupid nickname practice.

                    3. “I was right to call out the stupid nickname practice.”

                      Anon, if you wish to call out the nickname practice and take the high road you have to call out all of them. Start with right wing nuts, Orange man, deplorables, etc. Paint Chips was a big offender of the practice of labelling people so he got labelled. He quotes mostly from the Washington Post which is a big offender of that practice as well. Some of the names stick because those names are meaningful and clear to thinking persons on the blog. One can’t simply take the high road by changing aliases so that their previous abuses and name calling suddenly disappear like you have tried to do numerous times. I find your attitude objectionable not because you are on the other side of the political line I draw but because you lie, name call as a substitute for argument, and you are abusive.

                    4. Allen, mocking national figures and movements is part of the free exchange here and hopefully done well and accurately. Mocking other posters with childish nicknames is hopefully beneath us all.

                    5. “Allen, mocking national figures and movements is part of the free exchange here and hopefully done well and accurately.”

                      No, it’s a poor excuse for lack of intellect and the ability to describe the problem one associates with the individual. It is offensive and is actually an attack on those that have similar beliefs. Take the name of Jesus and give him a nickname in a similar fashion. Does that work out well? I understand the use of these names being used with national figures but when these nicknames of national figures are exclusively used without the intellectual rigor following, the free exchange becomes nothing but rabid hate. You have been one of the biggest offenders.

                    6. Mocking other posters with childish nicknames is hopefully beneath us all.

                      Here’s how this evolves. Someone (1) posts a comment. Someone (2) else challenges that comment, asking for proof, sources, citations, etc. (1) provides nothing. (2) follows up with the same ask. This time with a notice that if they do not provide what was asked, they will have earned a negative reputation of some kind. Wash, rinse, repeat. At this point, (1) is forced or voluntarily changes names. Wash, rinse, repeat. (2) has the option of starting the cycle over each time (1) changes names. or, (2) ascribes a name fitting of (1)’s signature style.

                      And that’s how we get Paint Chips. 😱

              3. Bythebook – you are rather infamous for calling me, and others, names on this blog. Sometimes you’ve been quite savage. Perhaps you have seen the error of your own ways and will use this time to be better.

                1. The adult Bythebook called us “numnuts” and referred to us living in “bum-f” cities. So tolerant, rational, and civil.

          2. “…stupid nick names…”
            ___________________

            “The raven chides blackness.”

            – Shakespeare
            ____________

            If “…the quality of this blog…” were to be enhanced, Mr./Mrs. Shill would have to be banned for life by an attentive moderator for supreme inanity and for presenting a “fake ID.”

            To wit,

            18 U.S. Code § 1028.

            Fraud and related activity in connection with identification documents, authentication features, and information

            U.S. Code

            (a) Whoever, in a circumstance described in subsection (c) of this section—
            (1) knowingly and without lawful authority produces an identification document, authentication feature, or a false identification document;
            …

    2. Estovir, your conclusion, predictably favorable to Dear Leader, does not follow from the body of your post. Regrettably Hillary is not in charge, Trump is. As you show, there is no reason to be caught completely flat footed by this virus – see our response compared to S Korea which had the exact same lead time – nor is bogus sunshine pumping the proper role for our “leader”. 21 days ago Trump was claiming we’d probably be down to zero cases at the same time Sen Burr was warning his fat cat donors to head for the hills. That is pathetic.

      1. Bythebook: Trump is responsible for the previous 20 years of lead time on Coronavirus? I do not recall any presidential candidate in 2016, and there were many, discussing how their platform revolved around coronavirus preparedness.

        The CDC has had a virtual slush fund for those decades. Perhaps they should have used their time more wisely, instead of feeding cocaine to quail and getting monkeys drunk.

        The CDC has egg on its face. I don’t blame them for having difficulty developing their field assay. But I do blame them for rolling it out with accuracy issues. What happened to QC testing? And its low throughput was never going to handle a national pandemic. That is why Trump threw testing open to private labs. To pick up the slack where the government failed.

        https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article241186551.html

        I wonder if people notice the paradox. They believe the budget of the CDC should always be increased. They never waste money. And they want government in charge of vital industries, including health care. Present them with facts, such as the myriad ways the CDC wasted taxpayer money, was not prepared for the inevitable global pandemic, and failed to produce and scale up rapid, reliable assays and…they get all glassy eyed and repeat talking points.

        That is how you can tell if you are dealing with reason, or brainwashing. A reasonable man would always seek truth. They would amend their opinion. Not run from facts. A brainwashed man would ignore facts and keep repeating talking points just disproven.

        1. Karen, you forget that the World Health Organization had already developed reliable test kits. It isn’t entirely clear why the U.S. didn’t import those test kits as a template.

          We know Trump is not responsible for the outbreak of this virus. But s**t happens during the watch of any president. Therefore presidents have to be statesmen-like leaders with credibility. Whereas Trump utters so many false statements that he has become a major component of this crisis.

          1. Yes, it is clear. The CDC declined them and chose to develo their own assays. Which they should have been fully capable of doing. And once they were developed, they should have known how to run QC tests before rolling them out.

            That is why Trump threw this open to private labs, who immediately created a reliable field assay that gave same day results. Shockingly, private industry succeeded where government failed.

            Trump did not cause the virus. No one knew the extent of China’s lies, or that this virus had been walking around for weeks, while China arrested its own doctors. Trump enacted a travel ban. The earliest identified patients were whisked away to quarantine in a Nebraska military facility. Husbands and wives were separated if one was positive and the other negative. The negative spouse had to test negative after the incubation period of last contact before being allowed to return home.

            We thought this was the start of the outbreak in Wuhan, and that they might have slammed a lid on it. It wasn’t. It had gone on for weeks and weeks.

            While I am furious with the Chinese government for abusing its own doctors, we all own Chinese doctors a debt of gratitude for facing off against their own dictatorial government to warn us. And for sharing their ideas on what worked and what didn’t.

            I am glad that Trump enacted travel bands, exapanded it to all of Europe, quarantined positive individuals, threw open testing to private labs, and is working on financial relief. I can get together a list of actions he has taken, as I have followed this closely.

            If you want to know what I disagree with Trump over, it’s that he compared it to the flu in his efforts to stop people from panicking and doing toilet paper runs. It is not like the flu. I agree with him trying to calm people down. There are riots in Denver. But it is not the flu.

            Accusations that the plague or its spread is Trump’s fault are savagely wrong. This is the Chinese govenrment’s fault. Calling the “Wuhan virus” racist is absurd. That is the naming convention, and China itself used it. Attempts to call it racist is simply Chinese PR trying to save face after it was caught lying, and allowing the virus to become pandemic.

            It is sickening how the Demcorat politicians have spread propanda that this is Trump’s fault. That the CDC’s failed assay is his fault. That the spread was his fault. All misinformation for political gain. And then there are all those prominent Democrats bragging how happy they are that this pandemic happened because it gives them a chance to win the election.

            1. Yes, excellent point Karen. “Trump did not create the virus:”

              It is not propaganda where we are now, who has been the president for 3 years, who can’t be trusted to either tell the truth or do anything not in his direct benefit , and who has undeniably pumped false BS endlessly for the last month and in direct contradiction to known facts. That’s not leadership, that’s a 5 year old trying to explain how the dog got into the pantry and what’s safe to eat.

              You must be exhausted from trying to make excuses for this scumbag. I seriously doubt that you would want to have anything to do with a person like Trump if he showed up in your social circle. If you would it raises serious questions about your BS detection system and choice in friends.

          2. Karen, you forget that the World Health Organization had already developed reliable test kits.

            No, they’d developed unreliable test kits.

            1. They were reliable. Your right wing sources confused early Chinese kits with the WHO kits.

              1. The “WHO kits” are another issue

                SARS-CoV-2 is an epic disaster that was preventable by the WHO, CDC, European counterpart (European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, ECDC) and Asia too since SARS in 2002 broke in Yunnan, China. They all knew of the data I cited earlier. Presumably so did Bush. Obama knew of it because by then it had considerably matured. Yet today we act like it were a new thing.

                Another Decade, Another Coronavirus – NEJM
                https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2001126

                Consider this: the WHO declared that there are numerous protocols that are still in development to “test” the SARS-CoV-2 virus.  There is not one test.

                https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/technical-guidance/laboratory-guidance

                The talking points from the Main Screed Media was/is the South Korean drive-through diagnostic tests. They do not address the science of the South Korean test, e.g. accuracy, precision, sensitivity and specificity. The WHO informs us that current protocols for SARS-CoV-2 are many and vary from country to country (see above WHO link). These tests most certainly will improve (like HIV tests did) once the protein sequence of the virus are well characterized. We have a ways to go.

                The MSM can not sell science because they don’t have the intellectual discipline nor rigor to attempt to comprehend it, seeing that their lives revolve around constant dopamine hits. Publishing the type of scientific messages the links I provided also fail to attract a large readership.

                We are woefully informed about viruses in general (e.g. Ebola, Zika, HIV). HIV is only now being discussed as to how it works at the cellular and molecular levels. For all the brow-beating by liberals about Ronald Reagan & HIV, the science reflects we still do not know enough about HIV in how to eliminate it in HIV+ patients. Protease inhibitors (Class of HIV drugs) were brought to market in the 1990s and were the first class of HIV drugs to save lives.  Now they are not used because they shorten the lives of HIV patients. What was gospel in the 1990s about HIV is now embarrassing. The science evolves.

                All this is to say that this is really complicated science, and none of what I just wrote will be articulated by any of the right/left wing news sources because it will not sell. Panic sells. Conspiracies sell. Agitprop sells.

          3. “Karen, you forget that the World Health Organization had already developed reliable test kits.”

            The World Health Organization doesn’t develop this type of kit Paint Chips. This has been discussed before. Additionally it was the World Health Organization that assured the world that the virus in China in the early days was totally controlled. We should not be reliant on the WHO for its organization is somewhat corrupt and its leadership isn’t the best or the brightest.

            Any kits the WHO had would likely be given to those nations that were third world. The US problem was not that it didn’t have kits rather the kits were faulty and if the WHO provided kits to the US they would have to go through the FDA at approximately the same time the faulty US kits were being made.

            Paint Chips talks of dishonesty but it is Paint Chips who has no credibility. His facts dispute Trump’s for the most part because Paint Chips doesn’t have valid facts nor the brains to understand them.

          1. So, 3 years into Trump’s presidency, it’s the CDC’s fault, even though he has waged war on them and other scientists in the federal government, closed down the 40 person WH pandemic task force – just a wild guess, but they might have thought about this coming problem like months ago – and done nothing – not even now – about stupid stuff like running short on masks and nose swabs. WTF! Are you kidding me?

            1. even though he has waged war on them and other scientists in the federal government,

              He’s done nothing of the kind. Liberal discourse consists of repeating fictions on continuous loop, all retailed by talking point mills.

              1. Absurd, Trump’s War On Science has been documented in real time. Quite recently this administration has changed standards for environmental studies to throw out reams of crucial data. And it appears the whole effort has been to allow more pollution in air and water.

                1. Absurd, Trump’s War On Science has been documented in real time.

                  It hasn’t. The ‘War on Science’ is a nonsense meme retailed by polemicists like Chris Mooney. They don’t ‘document’ anything and wouldn’t have a clue how if that were ever their aim.

            2. Bythebook:

              Are you hysterical? “Waged war”? His administration said it would not entertain CDC proposals that included the words “transgender”, “equality”, or “gender fluidity.” That’s waging war on the CDC? That’s not their purview. Does gender fluidity funding have anything to do with coronaviruses? No.

              There have been reports for decades on waste in the CDC. Which you would know if you followed it. In fact, it is telling how you keep ignoring the whole “gave cocaine to quail and got monkeys drunk” aspect of my posts.

              Every government agency has fraud, waste, abuse, and require the procurement system to be overhauled. Including the CDC. Cutting funding from debauching quail does not affect pandemic preparedness. Funding should be targeted and effective because the alphabet soup suffers from mission creep. Give any of it a slush fund and you would be amazed at all the ways they waste taxpayer money.

              In any case, his efforts to streamline the CDC failed because their budget was increased again before the outbreak.

              The globe is running short of masks.

              1. Trump has sought budget cuts to multiple scientific research arms of the feds, put muzzles on them when discussing issues not politically correct for the GOP, relocated long established offices in DC to back waters like Oklahoma, with the desired result of many leaving their jobs. He abolished the 40 person WH pandemic task force because ……Obama.

                1. Bythebook – taxpayers are squeezed enough. I expect politicians to triage. There are plenty of academics studying gender dysphoria. I am unwilling to waste millions of taxpayer dollars on the CDC doing SJW studies with a slush fund.

                  Wouldn’t you agree that they would have better use of their time studying pandemics? Why do you think that the CDC should be free to spend as much money as it wants on whatever it wants? That implies that all of the people who comprise this agency are faultless, benign, seek to maximize taxpayer benefit, and would neve, ever make busywork. There is such a difference between a private and public lab.

                  1. Karen, the CDC like all Federal agencies has fairly strict guidelines on where it spends it’s money as do those who receive federal grants. Neither you or I have adequate knowledge to judge those guidelines.

                    As to pandemics, did Trump propose boosting that research? We know he abolished the 40 person WH pandemic task force, a fact you keep avoiding.

                    1. PS Trump already has repeatedly lied about supposed Obama research regs being the problem when they weren’t. Anything to say about that?

                    3. Neither you or I have adequate knowledge to judge those guidelines.

                      Actually, we do in this case. Discretionary federal grants are a bad business, and agencies created for discrete purposes should not be permitted to alter their mission in defiance of their authorization and general public understanding.

                    4. Look it up you clown. Trump claimed Obama toughened FDA rules on research. It never happened. The last rules update was in 2004 and Trump had authority to redirect the FDA as he saw fit.

                    5. Bythebook – so are you saying that feeding cocaine to quail was an appropriate use of taxpayer funds?

                      I did not avoid your accusation. I actually posted a link. Read it.

                    6. Karen, well I guess that explains how Trump has managed to slash our national debt and balance the budget.

                      Forgive me for not reading all your posts. “Brevity is the soul of wit.”

                    7. well I guess that explains how Trump has managed to slash our national debt and balance the budget.

                      Good for you, btb. Now there are two worthy topics to debate. Of course they both need to happen. My opinion is the problem is rooted in the bloated federal bureaucracy. Not a revenue, but an expenditure problem.

                      How about you?

                  2. Agreed. The mission of public health authorities is to contain infectious disease and disease outbreaks from chemical contamination. The CDC has suffered a certain amount of mission creep in recent years because the issue of this nation’s public health faculties wish to branch out into social crusades (such as treating gun ownership as a public health problem). They need to be told by politicians to stay in their lane.

        3. Karen, Trump is the President and has been for 3 years. He is responsible for whatever he’s done or failed to do in that period. Among the things he has done is get rid of the 40 person WH pandemic task force with NSC seat a year and a half ago. What he has failed to do is address any claimed deficiancies in the system he inherited. We’ve known for 2 months this could and very likely would come our way, and other than pumping sunshine and offering falsehoods on projections, he has not produced. We learned when S Korea did what was coming and they blow us away in preparedness, not only on a per capita basis but in raw numbers for a country much smaller in population.

          Your dude can’t cut it and he’s an a..hole to boot.

          1. Among the things he has done is get rid of the 40 person WH pandemic task force with NSC seat a year and a half ago.

            Obama expanded the NSC staff 4-fold. Trump reduced the bloat and transferred some functions elsewhere.

            1. Exactly DSS.

              Morrison joined the NSC in 2018 and inherited a team of “strong and skilled staff” within the counterproliferation and biodefense office. He cites how this group of experts drafted the National Biodefense Strategy of 2018, which included an executive order “to modernize influenza vaccines; and coordinated the United States’ response to the Ebola epidemic in Congo, which was ultimately defeated in 2020.” The National Biodefense Strategy was announced by President Trump on September 18, 2018.

              He admits that the administration decreased the size of the NSC staff because the “bloat that occurred under the previous administration clearly needed a correction. Defense Secretary Robert Gates, congressional oversight committees and members of the Obama administration itself all agreed the NSC was too large and too operationally focused (a departure from its traditional role coordinating executive branch activity).” He pointed out that the Washington Post reported in 2015 that from “the Clinton administration to the Obama administration’s second term, the NSC’s staff ‘had quadrupled in size, to nearly 400 people.’ That is why Trump began streamlining the NSC staff in 2017.”

              Morrison discusses one thing the NSC did was to reorganize and create the counterproliferation and biodefense directorate, which merged several offices into one because of the overlap of arms control, terrorism, and global biodefense. He stated, “It is this reorganization that critics have misconstrued or intentionally misrepresented. If anything, the combined directorate was stronger because related expertise could be commingled.”

              He said although the reduction in force in the NSC continued after he departed, “it has left the biodefense staff unaffected — perhaps a recognition of the importance of that mission to the president, who, after all, in 2018 issued a presidential memorandum to finally create real accountability in the federal government’s expansive biodefense system.”

              Morrison said the current staffing level of the NSC is up to the job of getting the president what he needs to make tough decisions and to make sure the decisions are implemented. He said, “when people play politics in the middle of a crisis, we are all less safe. We are less safe because public servants are distracted when they are dragged into politics. We’re less safe because the American people have been recklessly scared into doubting the competence of their government to help keep them safe, secure and healthy.”
              https://www.cagw.org/thewastewatcher/did-president-trump-dissolve-pandemic-response-office

            2. Yeah, that 40 person WH pandemic task force probably cost $400,00-$600,000 a year.

              Wait!

          2. Anon can’t tell us what that task force was actually doing but during the taskforce’s existence did they streamline the creation and manufacture of vaccines? No. That is what we need. Anon knows the name but that is it. He makes things up so that he can cite false evidence to promote a political agenda.

        4. Since we’re repeating ourselves here:

          Karen, Trump is the President and has been for 3 years. He is responsible for whatever he’s done or failed to do in that period. Among the things he has done is get rid of the 40 person WH pandemic task force with NSC seat a year and a half ago. What he has failed to do is address any claimed deficiancies in the system he inherited. We’ve known for 2 months this could and very likely would come our way, and other than pumping sunshine and offering falsehoods on projections, he has not produced. We learned when S Korea did what was coming and they blow us away in preparedness, not only on a per capita basis but in raw numbers for a country much smaller in population.

          Your dude can’t cut it and he’s an a..hole to boot.

  11. I wonder if there is a possibility these various actors might escape prosecution for food tampering if the state fails to prove an essential element that the food was actually infected. An example being a required element is where a poison or noxious substance was introduced and the absence of proof of that element causing a summary dismissal of charges since the state failed to prove each element of the crime. Inchoate offenses would likely suffer also since the kids could not make a criminal attempt to tamper with the food if the element of infection were not proven.

    1. Darren:

      I do not know the answer to this, and perhaps you could tell me. What is the charge, if any, for spitting in someone’s face, or spitting in their food. Is either considered an assault of some kind? Escalating this further, what if a someone said he had HIV, cut his finger, and shoved it in someone’s mouth. If the person did not acquire HIV, is there no crime?

      I do not know the law. There is sometimes a difference between what is morally wrong, and what is criminally wrong. Does there need to be a transfer of contagion for the purposeful contamination of body fluids to be considered a crime?

      If not, there would still be civil liability. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the stores could sue the snot out of them, because such actions could lose customers, make people afraid to buy their products, and harm their reputation.

      That ice cream now has an infamous reputation.

  12. Pingback: Will The Corona Coughing Prank Go Viral? Police Investigation New Possible Trend — JONATHAN TURLEY | The zombie apocalypse survival homestead

  13. OK, maybe, but based on one incident is JT doing damage to our fragile distribution system over nothing? How about a little confirmation that this is an actual movement before instilling paranoia and avoidance that may be baseless. Sure, better safe than sorry, but this is ridiculous and not among the serious concerns we should have about the virus.

    1. Bythebook:

      Assigning responsibility incorrectly is a trend with you.

      Teens cough on produce, and some positive covid-19 patients deliberately try to spread the disease, and it’s now Turley’s fault? Untie that pretzel.

      1. Karen, teens in Purcerville Virginia.

        Meanwhile your hero is daily pumping false sunshine and telling Americans falsehoods which will make them less vigilant, something you previously decried as a problem.

        1. Anon, truth is based on facts. You don’t know the facts so you can’t state that another is lying or telling the truth.

  14. I wonder what would be the legal implications if one of these “pranksters” was found to actually have the virus (but not know it)? They did not intend to truly spread it, but the nature of the prank shows that they knew that it does spread that way.

    1. I wonder what would be the legal implications if one of these “pranksters” was found to actually have the virus (but not know it)?
      ___________________________________________________________

      I think the reality is we would never know that for sure….

      Part of the problem is the utter lack of knowledge of who has it and how and when they got it. That lack of knowledge is the basis of the govt. response which acts as if everybody (or anybody) can transmit it.

  15. We should all calm down because “the scientific community itself argues whether a virus is definable as a living organism.” Did you know that?! So tomorrow they might find out that it’s NOT living and the disease will go away. Read the Weekend Contributor’s post for more coronavirus wisdom that you probably won’t find anywhere else.

    (It was certain that some Libertarian heads were going to explode.)

  16. Professor, Interesting to see your pivot when balancing this article against the moron child with his gun wondering whether the picture would make “snowflakes melt’. The gun pic isn’t criminal, but this is?

    My guess is that neither raise to the level of base criminality, although I’d be open for them to do so. They both straddle the line of terrorism.

    And truthfully, I think there is some evidence that Covid 19 can live on surfaces for up to 9 days, longer than was previously thought.

    The answer to both dilemmas may be simpler than they seem…, the idiot child with the gun can have an ‘S” branded on his forehead for stupidity and his name and all digital traces flagged by the FBI for review constantly. And any produce brought home from the store should be thoroughly scrubbed before eating.

    And the political posturing of pitting one act against the next should be harshly judged in the court of faulty syllogism with a negative judgement entailing three successive tazings publicly on the town square. At least one of the tazings to be a full on genitalia blast.

    2. Paulie J:

      Posting a photo of your legal gun is not a threat. A photograph does not have the capability of harming anyone.

      Deliberately coughing on produce during a global pandemic does have the capacity to physically harm people. Plus it hurts the business.

      Do you truely not understand the difference?

      1. Karen, you don’t know if it’s threat or not. It was a prop in a taunt by a teenage male. It absolutely had to be investigated and if you have kids in his school you’d want it checked out.

        1. Of course I know it was not a threat. He said the photo would make snowflakes melt. A threat is if he said he was going to kill someone.

          You can take photos of a legal weapon. I have no problem investigating any accusation. But it should have ended there. A lot of my friends and family hunt. My cousin just posted a photo of this rifle he has with the prettiest stock you ever did see. Sometimes they post photos of their kids with the first water fowl they bagged. Or covered in mud after a long day. They share photos amongst each other of guns they have, guns they want to have. I put out a request for help finding a particular ammo.

          That’s what you don’t get.

          1. As is generally the case with liberals, you cannot tell if they’re being stupid or posing for effect.

          2. No Karen, you don’t know that, nor do any of us.

            Hopefully your relatives know that responsible gun ownership includes not playing with them. I own a pump shotgun and I get that.

            1. ” I own a pump shotgun”

              Hmmm, based on previous statements made by Anon I think he is threatening Karen.

  17. There is only 1 COVID-19 testing facility open in NJ

    Reporters from ABC, NBC FOX, & CBS were interviewing people waiting in line…In their vehicles.

    People were belly aching, whining & complaining….While waiting in Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, Land Rover & Lincoln Navigator vehicles.

  18. What is a “chink virus”? There was a person on another blog saying Trump is a bigot for not talking about that virus and it’s threat.

  19. Shelves are still mostly empty where we live and produce and fruit are also in short supply. We just decided a couple of weeks ago we’ll stick with frozen for a while until this thing blows over. Really disgusting and disheartening that some young people would even think this is a good idea. I still believe people are mostly good (still love my dogs more than most people though) but this one caught me by surprise.

    1. Dennis Prager speaks about this topic from time to time. He does not believe that people are inherently good. You have to teach toddles not to hit, or take things from others. You have to teach kids to be kind, have empathy, and acceptable standards of behavior.

      If people were inherently good, then I don’t think their actions would have changed much, culture to culture, nation to nation, and era to era. How could there be Aztec human sacrifice, slavery, or Nazism if people did not have to be taught to be good? And what about eras in human history where being good and kind got you killed by the rampaging warlords?

      I think that people are born with a beautiful soul. As a newborn, they have no regrets. They have never hurt anyone. Never lied. Never cheated. They are infinite possibility, and capacity for good or evil.

      The book, The Lord of the Flies first opened my eyes to how society, law, culture, and religion affect behavior. Strand people on an island with no law, no justice, and no hope of rescue, and see what happens. I found the idea so disturbing.

      When I hear about these teenagers, I wonder how they were raised.

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