UN Secretary General Warns Of Hundreds of Thousands Of Children Dying From . . . A Bad Economy

downloadWhile I have disagreed with President Donald Trump on a number of constitutional issues, I agree with his push to reopen the economy and his argument that tanking an economy will cost not just the dreams of a generation but actual lives. He is now getting support from an unlikely source: the United Nations.  U.N. Secretary-General Antonio Guterres warned that hundreds of thousands of children could die from the global economy crashing under the pandemic.

Guterres was referencing the reliance on schools as well as financial support for bare necessities for 369 million children in 143 countries.

While most states have done a good job in delivering meals through the schools, the situation could prove dire with over 22 million out of work.  We cannot continue to approve trillions in grants, subsidies, and loans if this economy will left in an anemic state.  Coverage is often dismissive of these costs against a death count. However, tens of millions of families could be lost to years of stagnant growth and limited prospects.  That has not just an economic cost but a physical cost from unhealthy lifestyles to suicide to alcohol and chemical abuse.

There is an urgency to find a way to restart this economy if we are going to be able to continue to support efforts to combat this virus and any second wave that will likely come.


112 thoughts on “UN Secretary General Warns Of Hundreds of Thousands Of Children Dying From . . . A Bad Economy”

  1. It’s the tests, stupid.

    After promising them in March, Trump is way behind on the numbers he promised and has no plan for them now, but still thinks he can open up the country.

    “WASHINGTON (AP) — The United States is struggling to test enough people to track and control the spread of the novel coronavirus, a crucial first step to reopening parts of the economy, which President Donald Trump is pushing to do by May 1.

    Trump on Thursday released a plan to ease business restriction that hinges on a downward trajectory of positive tests.

    But more than a month after he declared, “Anybody who wants a test, can get a test,” the reality has been much different. People report being unable to get tested. Labs and public officials say critical supply shortages are making it impossible to increase testing to the levels experts say is necessary to keep the virus in check.

    “There are places that have enough test swabs, but not enough workers to administer them. There are places that are limiting tests because of the CDC criteria on who should get tested,” said Dr. Megan Ranney an emergency doctor and associate professor at Brown University. “There’s just so many inefficiencies and problems with the way that testing currently happens across this country.”

    Trump’s plan envisions setting up “sentinel surveillance sites” that would screen people without symptoms in locations that serve older people or minority populations. Experts say testing would have to increase as much as threefold to be effective.

    The plan pushes responsibility for testing onto states.

    “You know, the federal government shouldn’t be forced to go and do everything,” Trump told reporters Thursday.

    But state and local officials as well as lab managers say they cannot expand testing until there are more supplies.

    This week governors, physician groups and laboratory directors called on the Trump administration to address shortages of swabs, protective gear and highly specialized laboratory chemicals needed to analyze the virus’ genetic material. Hospitals and state health departments report scouring the globe to secure orders, competing against each other and their peers abroad in a system that Gov. Andrew Cuomo, D-N.Y., described as “mayhem.”

    “The federal government cannot wipe their hands of this and say, ‘Oh, the states are responsible for testing,’” Cuomo said Friday as he complained of a shortage of chemicals manufactured in China. “I don’t do China relations. I don’t do international supply chain.”

    Trump has denied that the U.S. has fallen short, asserting that the U.S. has the “most expansive and accurate testing system anywhere in the world.” Only in recent days has the U.S. surpassed the rate of testing in South Korea, which has conducted about one test for every 100 people. Vice President Mike Pence told reporters Monday that if governors “would simply activate” underused high-capacity testing machines, “we could double the amount of testing in the U.S. literally overnight.”

    “That is not the experience in Rhode Island,” said Gov. Gina Raimondo, D-R.I.

    Democratic Gov. Laura Kelly of Kansas, whose state has one of the lowest per capita testing rates in the country, told CNN it has been difficult to get testing supplies. Gov. Jim Justice, R-W.Va., a Trump ally, said testing needs to be stepped up before he can lift restrictions.

    In early March, Trump announced a plan for nationwide testing via drive-thru sites at chains such as Walmart and Target, linked by a Google-affiliated website. Six weeks later, the website is a pilot program available in just four California counties. Few of the retailers’ sites have opened, and executives from companies including Walgreens have said they are waiting for direction from the federal government.

    Trump also has promoted a 15-minute test developed by Abbott Laboratories as a “game changer.” Federal officials initially distributed 15 machines to public health labs in each of the 50 states and U.S. territories, along with 250 to the Indian Health Service. Alaska received 50.

    But governors say they didn’t get enough cartridges needed to run large numbers of the Abbott tests.

    Rhode Island received only 120, much fewer than they were promised. Raimondo said when the state tried to get more, Abbott and others that make the test cartridges directed her to the federal government, which in turn told her to go directly to the companies. The state has now received 850 tests, far fewer than it requested, Raimondo said Friday.

    Federal health officials declined to say how many cartridges were initially sent to states, but said more will be available as Abbott increases production. The company says it is currently producing 50,000 cartridges daily….”

    AP Today

    1. There exists no reliable RT-PCR or Serological / Antibody tests. The PCR tests used in China had 71% sensitivity.

      COVID-19 Testing: The Threat of False-Negative Results
      Colin P. West, MD, PhD, Victor M. Montori, MD, MSc, Priya Sampathkumar
      Mayo Clinic Proceedings

      The magnitude of this concern is difficult to determine because test performance characteristics (and the validity of the studies generating them) have not been reported clearly or consistently to date. Fundamental characteristics of clinical diagnostic tests for COVID-19 infection including sensitivity, specificity, and corresponding likelihood ratios are largely unknown. Sensitivity is particularly important in understanding the risk of false-negative testing. The diagnostic sensitivity of reverse transcriptase–polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR) testing for other viruses is highly variable, but early data from China suggested relatively poor sensitivity of initial RT-PCR tests. Even with sensitivity values as high as 90% the magnitude of risk from false-negative test results will be substantial as testing becomes more widespread and the prevalence of COVID-19 infection rises.

  2. Jonathan: There is more breaking news on Trump’s demand to re-open the economy for business. The fitness industry has been hit particularly hard by the coronavirus. So in “phase one” of the plan to jump start the economy Trump wants fitness gyms to re-open. Why gyms in particular? Because Trump has close business associates and supporters who own gyms around the country and he wants to please them. This is a horrible idea! As Lawrence Gostin, director of the O’Neill Institute for Global Health points out: “Gyms are like a petri dish. People are close to one another. they’re sweating, they’re coughing and sneezing, they’re touching multiple surfaces, they are sharing equipment, they’re indoors. Literally, all the heightened risks for COVID transmission are all entwined together in a gym”. But Trump’s business friends take precedence over public health and fighting the coronavirus. I understand your favorite local gym will be re-opening soon, Jonathan. They will be offering one free month membership if you sign up for their 6 month plan. An opportunity you don’t want to miss. Good luck!

    1. Dennis McIntyre – at every gym I have been in, the people were good about wiping down the equipment after they used it. I am sure they would not mind going an extra step.

      1. Paul, use your head. A gym is a closed environment where through exertion people expel breath, including droplets, at further distances than normal. Some of them may also cough and sneeze. If you exercise with others, do it outside and at distance.

      2. Paul, I’ve been a regular at my gym for 25 years. It’s only 2 blocks from home. But both my gym and the canyon parks are closed.

        As much as I want my gym to re-open, I realize gyms are the most potentially infectious environments. The virus could remain on weight bars for hours. Then there are vinyl mats, sauna and equipment handles.

        So I dont see how gyms can re-open. I just hope my gym is still in business by the time the quarantine lifts. It’s an Independent gym owned by an immigrant. It may not have the financial resources to weather this storm.

    2. Why gyms in particular? Because Trump has close business associates and supporters who own gyms around the country and he wants to please them.

      Your last gambit was that he was promoting HCL because he owned a small stake in a fund which owned a stake in a pharmaceutical firm which produced it. It’s a disposition helpful to Democratic pols, who don’t know any businessmen other then the ones they’re shaking down.

      1. The larger point TIA is that we don’t know where his investments are, nor does he have a record of sober and scrupulous business dealings. Your incuriosity surrounding this scandal indicates you enjoy being a mark.

        1. The larger point

          There is no larger point. It’s just another episode of chronic complaining.

          1. Absurd would have us think Inspector Generals are deep state. And we can trust that Trump will distribute stimulus funds more efficiently ‘without’ any oversight. And the fact that Trump refused to ever share his tax returns should not have any bearing on this issue.

            1. “Draining the swamp” means Trump cronies in place everywhere, because, you know, he runs a such a great reputation for sober and scrupulous business practices.

              Couldn’t make this up in a hundred years Seth.

              1. bythebook @ 1:11: “Trump cronies in place everywhere, because, you know, he runs a such a great reputation for sober and scrupulous business practices.”

                “Grift and graft is the family business.” — Robert Weissman, president of Public Citizen

    3. Public health would be served by opening gyms. 60% of Americans are overweight or obese. Moving more would help.

  3. Seriously Prof. Turley, What about the economic cost of a million or more deaths and long term health effects of this virus. In a little more than a month 32000 people have died even with the lock down. If people went back to work without N95 masks, testing and distancing we would have a disaster greater than WW2. It would spread through our society like a category 5 hurricane. Covid 19 is much more contagious than the seasonal flue and much more deadly. There is no treatment. Our hospitals would not be able to handle the capacity. What about the fear as more people die? Children are effected by the virus. They are a petri dish for the spread. Recently it has become evident that the virus causes long term health problem to the lungs, kidneys, liver and heart and possible the brain. It will be a huge economical disaster for much of society, but some of that can be mitigated by monetary relief to those that need it the most. Interest rate on that money is about 0, so the cost is minimal and within a couple of more months we should be in the position that ever one will have the protective gear that it will be much safer to go to work.

  4. Jonathan: Re-opening the economy now seems to be the drum beat of Trump and his business supporters. You have joined the chorus by arguing that we must re-start the economy “if we are going to be able to continue to support efforts to combat the virus…” The implication is that if governors don’t lift the pandemic restrictions soon they will lose your support. This sounds counter intuitive but much like most of Trump’s threats. All the medical experts say the restrictions should stay in place because lifting them now would unnecessarily expose millions of Americans to the coronavirus and hamper all the work that has already been done. If this means Congress has to approve billions more in new funding to the states so be it. It’s a small price to pay to keep Americans safe. But don’t worry about the economy, Jonathan, the economic elite have a plan. They are dealing with the pandemic. They are buying up failed businesses and distressed properties. They look on coronavirus as a great business opportunity. And they have their own way of personally dealing with the pandemic. Take billionaire David Geffen. He is aboard his 450 foot yacht in the Grenadines in isolation from the virus. He’s not worried. Geffen illustrates the ugly divide between the rich and the poor in the age of the coronavirus.

  5. If I recall my figures correctly, 405,000 Americans died in combat in WWII. The War to End All Wars.

    650,000 died in the Spanish Flu of 1918.

    Both of these tragedies were known as a time when every family mourned either their own relatives or friends. Both events blasted a whole in our population and are remembered as intense tragedies.

    The death rate for Covid-19 ranges from 3 to 6%. There are roughly 325 million people in the US. To achieve herd immunity requires 95% of the population get the disease. If the case fatality rate holds, that would translate to 9,750,000 to 19,500,000 people would die.

    If you added the deaths of WW2 and the Spanish flu, it’s 5.4% of the projected deaths of Covid-19.

    That is why I believe the quarantine needs to remain in effect until N95 masks are made available to the American public. That is why I want to wait until there is an approved treatment protocol.

    Those two, alone, would have a significant effect on reducing the death rate of this disease.

    I agree that people in impoverished nations die. The collapse of the global economy hurts impoverished countries the hardest. Look at Venezuela. They have nothing. They’ve had no toilet paper for years. Children have starved to death. That was at the hands of their government. This is a global pandemic that has demolished the economy of the planet, in large part because of the lies and abuses of the Chinese Communist Party.

    We need those two things to happen, PPE and a treatment, before we throw open the economy. Without it, the deaths of WW2 and the Spanish Flu will be a fraction of what we’re looking at. If it’s a matter of a 3 to 6 weeks, hold out. Hold out to save nearly 20 million Americans, and the devastating, multi generational impact that would occur from losing that many people. If it’s going to take months or a year, then the dam holding up the quarantine is going to fracture and break. Essential workers like grocery store employees and nurses will get sick in sufficient numbers that they quit. Fire fighters will get sick just in time from a major CA wildfire season after we’ve had to much rain. At the same time, people will revolt agains the quarantine and go tumbling out to try to scrabble out a living again. Both influences will crash together.

    I have read President Trump’s proposed tiered easing and relies of the economy, and the gating criteria that lead to each phase, like a boat passing through locks. They are requiring that a downward trajectory in cases hold for each phase. That’s good, but we need to add these two criteria to that list.

    N95s have been produced by the millions, but they are diverted to essential medical staff. Their need is great. We need to satisfy the medical community, but also re-establish a supply chain to the American public. I have 1 N95 for me, 1 for my kid, and my husband has 1 that’s getting old. An N95 is a basic necessity for regaining any public life.

    Fabric masks are just about useless. The poor size is 10,000 to 20,000 nm. SARS-CoV-2 is 70 to 90 nm. Using fashion fabric, or a paper towel, a bandana, or a coffee filter to screen out the virus is like trying to filter out sand using a bucket with the bottom cut out. It’s just a wast of time. If you’re sick, fabric over your face would help contain your mucous from a sneeze or wet cough, but aerosolized virus would easily flow right through, on your respiration, and right through another wearer’s fabric, on their inspiration.

    1. “Fabric masks are just about useless.”

      That is nonsense. Surgeons wear fabric masks because they are very effective at protecting the patient from the spittle drops that the surgeon emits every time he/she speaks. The part that you don’t understand is that right now in the US there may be as many as 1 million people who have the virus and don’t know it and they are contagious and spread the virus in public whenever they speak or cough or sneeze.

    2. Karen S, I enjoy your posts always and agree with many of your comments. On part of this comment, however, I think it may be– and hopefully is– premature and wrong. The current blood anti-body experiment being conducted by Stanford University in a California county suggests that the number of people with Covid-19 may be as much as 85 times higher than previous estimates because many, many people apparently have the virus but don’t know it. If this is true, even if we assume that every death of a person who has or presumptively has the virus was caused by the virus, the death rate would be a very, very small fraction of the projections. To illustrate I will use math which admittedly is not my strong suit. Today there are 661,712 reported cases and 33,049 deaths for a mortality rate of .049. Using the factor of 85 number, there would be 56,245,500 cases causing the same number of deaths (33,049) resulting in a mortality rate of 00058, or far, far less than those caused by the flu. Although I like what you write, I hope you are wrong.

      1. honestlawyermostly – math is almost never the strong suit of any attorney, that is a given. Just wanted to get that out of the way.

        You are assuming every death is a ChiCom virus death, which it is not. For example, I have asymptomatic ChiCom virus and cirrhosis of the liver. I die of chirrosis of the liver. You would have me be declared a ChiCom virus death. We are already doing that for symptomatic patients and Bill de Blasio arbitrarily declared some 3700 New Yorkers victims of the ChiCom virus.

        Let’s expand your brilliant theory to the flu. Think of the millions who are asymptomatic for the flu and then die of something else. Think was it would do to the flu stats. They would be so low, you couldn’t even get funding.

        1. Paul C, there has been quite a bit of study of the asymptomatic fraction in flu and according to the CDC in any given year, approximately 5% to 20% of the US population will get the flu, a percentage that include asymptomatic people. In 2019, CDC estimates that 35.5 million people got the flu and 34,200 died from it. That is a mortality rate of .00096. If the Stanford study is correct, that is a higher mortality rate than the Covid-19 virus which, as I mentioned, was .0005. See https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html. Also, to try and make the point, I used an assumption that every person who dies who is presumptively positive for the virus dies from the virus, which obviously is not true. If the actual number of people who died solely because of the virus was used (a number that is unknowable since I suspect that very few postmortem examinations are done), the mortality rate would be even lower. I have no idea what all of this means other than it seems interesting. For the thousands of people who have died from the ChiCom virus, I believe that each and every one of them was an unnecessary and wrongful death at the hands of the Chinese Communists leadership.

      2. suggests that the number of people with Covid-19 may be as much as 85 times higher than previous estimates

        If the number of people with antibodies is 85 times the numbers reported then in New York they already have reached a point where close to 100% of the population has antibodies and that does not seem to be slowing down the disease very much.

        One thing should be clear by now, not a lot is known about how this virus works and spreads.
        The places like NYC and Lombardy Italy where it has rampaged with very rapid rates of spread, the death rates appear to be much higher than places where the spread is very slow.

    3. Karen S:
      The Wuhan Virus fatality rate is projected at .21% now. This “burn the village to save the village” mentality has to stop and your disinformation is the best way to start. Chicken-Littles aren’t heroic figures.

    4. Karen:

      The death rate for Covid-19 ranges from 3 to 6%.

      Much lower…less than 1%. You are probably familiar with the numerator vs denominator discussions in epidemiology circles taking place re: SARS-CoV-2. The denominator is being reported ten-fold higher in several medical journals. Most lay news outlets are employing selection bias by using only confirmed cases of SARS-CoV-2 in the denominator. That is inaccurate.

      I have provided many links to reputable medical journals on this blog that discuss the COVID phenomenon using science. PubMed is a good resource as well.

      That is why I believe the quarantine needs to remain in effect until N95 masks are made available to the American public.

      Americans would never use N95 masks as directed. They must be worn tightly and achieve a seal around the face. They are cumbersome. Inhaling and exhaling should not allow air to escape nor enter. People with facial hair will not benefit. If you wear Rx glasses that is another ordeal particularly if the wearer can not remove the mask in a dicey situation wherein moist / fogged glasses becomes an issue. Children should not use N95 masks nor should people with chronic pulmonary, cardiac or other diseases that make breathing difficult. They are called N95 because they afford 95% filtration when used correctly but not 100%. I have seen many people wear cloth and surgical masks in public inappropriately. Dangling from their face, below the chin while talking on their cell phone, or worse. It is comical but theirs is one of fear but not enough to be wearing masks correctly.

      Surgical masks are a step down from N95 masks and those do not protect wearers from airborne pathogens in close proximity due to other peoples coughs or sneezes. Surgical masks afford protection from fluid splashes like blood and phlegm but not aerosol contaminants.

      Protection comes from the practice of multiple interventions, not just one. Therein lies the rub. Americans want a silver bullet to assure them they are protected. They demand N95 Masks but they alone even used as directed afford no such security.

      That is why I want to wait until there is an approved treatment protocol.

      We have a long way to go to bring to market anti-virals that are as successful as antibiotics. Anti-viral treatments inhibit the cell cycle division, i.e. viral shedding. You have to receive the treatment before viral shedding ends to benefit from the intervention. No one knows the specifics to viral shedding with SARS-CoV-2. Once a virus takes hold, symptoms appear after the fact. It is nearly impossible to get a drug into a patient that inhibits viral shedding before symptoms occur because you depend on symptoms to suspect viral or bacterial illness.

      Anti-viral treatments often fail because the RNA virus predictably mutates. HIV treatments overcome this problem by including multiple drugs in a treatment plan, the infamous “cocktail” though it is no longer called that. Multiple drug therapy tries to prevent viral drug resistance. No one knows what an antiviral drug should look like with SARS-CoV-2 because the virus itself is novel and most likely will mutate by next year and following. The current SARS-CoV-2 differs from the 2002 SARS-CoV and 2015 MERS-CoV. All are Coronavirus but each different by peptides and amino acids. There is also the topic of 3 dimensionality, i.e. they the configuration differs.

      Treatment addresses symptoms related to the effects of the virus, e.g. the immune response therein (e.g. cytokine storm) and the various complications the high risk patients already possessed prior to infection with SARS-CoV-2. A person getting infected with SARS-CoV-2 with compromised pulmonary, cardiac, renal and inflammatory systems would be very worrisome to treat because of the aforementioned hence the mortality.

      Fabric masks are just about useless.

      Home-made fabric masks are useless other than providing psychological comfort. Additionally false protection is worse than no protection. At least the latter reminds the individual to maintain a posture of vigilance. Not so with cloth masks.


    5. The death rate for Covid-19 ranges from 3 to 6%. There are roughly 325 million people in the US. To achieve herd immunity requires 95% of the population get the disease. If the case fatality rate holds, that would translate to 9,750,000 to 19,500,000 people would die.

      The data from the Diamond Princess suggests that the death rate for patients over 60 with a symptomatic illness is about 5%. Data from Iceland suggest that about 1/2 those infected do not have a symptomatic illness. The Italian data had it that 95% of the deceased were over 60. The New York data has it that 85% are over 65. That suggests that the probability of death for persons under 60 with a symptomatic illness is quite low on average – around about 0.2% (though much higher for persons over 50). I tend to regret in the social distancing advisories did not emphasize isolating the elderly. We may have done ourselves an economic injury we did not need to do. In fairness, patients younger than 60 can consume a great deal of hospital manpower – the disease just doesn’t kill them very often.

      If I’m not mistaken, herd immunity requires something along the lines of 70% of the population having antibodies, not 95%.

    6. Always a voice of reason – thank you.

      It would seem that when the numbers of infected are low enough wide spread testing, contact tracing, and isolation of the sick would be a help. We could have wide spread testing if the federal government would make that a priority. Why not?

      Why the resistance to testing from the administration and some in congress?

      Where is the CDC in all this. Was there ever a time, since its creation, when the CDC did not provide leadership to control disease? What happened?

    7. no its not a waste of time. the virus moved in particulates and droplets that are far bigger than the virus itself and when fabric stops them then the entrapped virus can be stopped too. that is physics.

      it is not a hermetic seal but there are no hermetic seals outside of labs. scarves and masks DO help so please wear them when in public and please quit telling people its a waste. that is wrong

      do i have peer reviewed literature to back this notion up, btw? yes and Im not wasting my time pulling it up anymore. this is pretty close to common sense anyhow

    1. And possibly the WHO, as well. We can continue to donate money globally, but we should not filter it through the WHO. It would probably be more efficient and better spent without the middle man.

  6. Plenty to eat available here but no one working or getting paid. bunch of us banded together to take care of as many as we could. “Viva Los Cruceros! The boating community. As far as the fabled 1200 is concerned? Time for patience. No deposits as of yet. that be the news from 40% cost of living land compared to up north. we get 2.5 times as much for our money. wh

    1. Where? No way I want a bunch of gringos jacking up the prices. Try PR or USVI

    2. I am so moved by how many people have stepped up the plate to look after their neighbors. I love that aspect of humanity that has shone through during these dark times.

  7. Hmmm. You deserve an Irish Poem! Because “the” is a pretty hard word to misspell.

    Hail to The???
    An Irish Poem by Squeeky Fromm

    There once was a proud Spelling Nazi!
    Who thought he was real hotsy-totsy!
    Alas for the freak!
    He went out in a pique,
    For he misspelt “the” – KAMIKAZE!!!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

      1. Dividing is what Trump does, even in a crisis where cooperation is the order of the day. The WHO is our ally in this pandemic, as are the Chinese. Yeah, they f… up and hid it. So did Trump. Just stop it and get it in gear.

        1. bythebook:

          Dividing is what Trump does? Really? Because Cuomo and Newsom have praised him for instantly taking their calls, and responding to each and every request that he possibly can. Cuomo said that he’s gotten answers on his questions and requests that same afternoon, when it would typically take days or weeks or never with a government agency.

          Are you seriously comparing Trump to Communist China? China’s lack of biosecurity may have allowed a highly infectious zoonotic disease out of a lab that has caused a pandemic and the collapse of the planet’s economy. They have shredded documents. They were warned about their live wet markets, places of misery and impetus for poaching if there ever was one. This is the other likely source of the disease. But China wouldn’t listen. After the epidemic, they hid it. Lied about it. Imprisoned their own doctors who tried to sound the alarm, for “threatening the social order.” They allowed international travel knowing they had an epidemic. When word leaked out, they lied again and claimed that it could not spread person to person. Then they admitted it could, but only through heavy droplets. As long as you washed your hands, you’d be OK. Turns out, it’s aerosolized for days.

          This string of lies led world leaders to tell their people that it was all under control. We had no idea this had spread for nearly 2 months. We thought we’d identified patient zero and stopped it from reaching our shores. We thought we were in time. If all you needed to do was wash your hands, this was going to be relatively straightforward to contain. No reason to be alarmed.

          All based on the lies that came out of China.

          Trump was overly optimistic. He thought we’d caught it early enough to squelch. Everyone did. People used to say, don’t worry, there’s only two dozen cases. Now there are 650,000.

          Then the CDC turned out to be incapable of developing a high throughput, accurate field assay. So Trump threw it open to the private industry, who worked like gang busters to come out with tests that have tested millions of our people to date. We would have more tests already, but the FDA requires a lengthy approval process.

          We used to think that young people were safe from this. But it now comes out that Covid-19 can cause lung and heart damage, impaired liver function, and attack T-cells, even in those with mild symptoms. So, no, Trump is not correct that it’s comparable to the flu. He did not know at the time how terrible it was, and he’s not a scientist. He wanted to calm down the mobs that were hoarding Toilet Paper and buying up all the meat at the butcher counter. There is room to criticize his rhetoric.

          But I think our country is doing all it can. As pointed out, I want N95s and an approved treatment before we dream of opening up the quarantine. I also believe that the CDC et al were untruthful when they claimed N95s don’t help. Of course they do. That’s why in the same breath they said the hospitals needed them all.

          Everyone is getting restless. Revolt against stay at home orders are coming. I don’t think people are going to hang on for much longer. Many people are severely impacted by this. Others seem just bored. Still more are playing the odds and find the old and those with health challenges expendable.

          I hope this treatment comes through soon, because cracks are showing in the nation’s resolve.

      2. Enigma, I’m all for American aid and charity worldwide. However, I have reached the conclusion that our country should take control and direction of our own money. A shocking amount of it lines the pockets of dictators and bureaucrats, without helping the intended at all. There have been so many scandals and abuses.

        The UN is a good example. Once it put countries infamous for human rights abuses on human rights committees, it lost me. It has been alleged that the WHO aided and abetted China’s coverup, a coverup that will cost millions of people around the globe their lives, and has crashed the planet’s economy. That is a serious charge that should be investigated.

        Perhaps more people would live and thrive if we spent our money directly, and took a more active role on where it went. There also needs to be more accountability. Money going to dictators instead of their people seems to rather accepted at this point. It shouldn’t be.

        I’m tired of it all and at this point want to get rid of the middle man skimming off the top. Let us work in concert but by choice, not trapped.

        1. Maybe no more will die in the United States because Trump already ignored their (and many internal warnings) for over a month. Trump’s actions are akin to removing a doctor during the middle of an operation. All to plane someone else for his failures.

  8. Unfortunately the President is taking no leadership on how and when to reopen the country but more specifically and necessary on testing which is the critical element in safely reopening our economy according to all health experts.

    Too bad we don;t have a leader now.

    “Testing for the coronavirus would have to be at least doubled or tripled from its current levels to allow for even a partial reopening of America’s economy, public health experts say, but it is unclear how soon such an ambitious goal could be reached amid persistent shortages of testing supplies and a lack of coordination from the Trump administration.

    Without diagnostic testing on a massive scale, federal and state officials and private companies will lack a clear picture of who has been infected, who can safely return to work, how the virus is spreading and when stay-at-home orders can be eased, public health experts say.

    “We are an order of magnitude off right now from where we should be,” said Dylan George, an expert in infectious disease modeling who advised the administration of President Barack Obama in combating the Ebola epidemic. “Testing is the perpetual problem here.”….”


      1. Way to attack the facts not the person…
        But since we’re in a person attacking mood, let’s revisit the wisdom of reopening when less than 1% of the population has been tested even those reporting symptoms. Some say because the tests aren’t totally accurate it makes no sense to even bother testing. Yet stats show every country that has engaged in wide spread testing early was able to stamp Covid out sooner rather than later as a result. Let’s say everything reopens and no ones been tested. Then it spreads again, a million die and panic ensues as you’re forced to close again. Neither outcome is friendly but if you don’t bite the bullet and stomach waiting to gradually reopen until more have been tested and confidence grows you’ll only make the infection spread further through America.

        1. Testing is desirable, but community spread can be inferred from hospitalization statistics.
          Life goes on, even if the testing regimes are being developed by incompetents.

          Blaming Trump for every painful and obvious current failure of American private sector “health care industry” is lame.

          At the same time, he has the whip, and he needs to crack it over their heads, or across their backs if need be.

          And if he doesn’t, then, its another missed opportunity to rectify American corrupt business bureaucracy just as he’s failed to rectify “the Swamp” after it proved itself filled with insects that were in need of summary arrests, trials, and executions.

          Im sure what passes as “big business” in this country is in need of a purge as well.

          1. Kurtz, putting aside your belief that it is up to private enterprise to lead during times of international crisis – absurd based on the nature of private enterprise – or that tests are not critical to reopening our economy, in contradiction to what all health authorities say and what is being demonstrated in countries with more successful testing, the President is the only one able to lead a national effort due to powers he alone possesses. Maybe he should hand it over to Pence and get out of the way as he is obviously incapable of leading anything but a minority cult, and shows no desire to improve on that.

            1. I don’t favor actions which would presume to commandeer the massive health care industry from the top and micromanage assets in private hands. This actually might lead to a worse disaster if it were too heavy handed. Much as i believe that the hospitals are often poorly managed by a bunch of penny pinching bean counters, I am not so sure increased government interventions will necessarily produce better results. especially considering that our federal government is thickly populated with similar personalities of bean counting nearsighted fools and petty tyrants at desks.

              Leadership and some Presidential coordination are certainly necessary however. It remains to be seen whether Trump’s leadership was as good as it could have been. Sometimes things like that are a matter of hindsight.

              You have a daily quota of insults to levy at Trump however, so you must get them out of the way.

              Meanwhile, testing in the ROK is the gold standard of effectiveness.

              Fema is purchasing 750,000 testing kits from Korea, which is a welcome development.


              I am not clear on the details of how Korea manages its own health care providers and industry, but if I get some time, I’m going to look into it. They stand out among the nations for their competence in this crisis.

              1. Kurtz, pinching pennies is what private businesses do. I suggest you note what China and S Korea have accomplished by marshaling governmemnt forces against the virus. If we had followed your prescription during WWII we’d be speaking German and Japanese.

                1. The analogy to war is not precise. Moreover:

                  Japanese never could have staged a successful invasion of the mainland USA. We are far away and were not docile peasants like the chinese they invaded and oppressed.

                  nor could have Germany. At best they could have crushed the retreat to Dunkirk and then invaded the UK which they failed to do.

                  it’s a fantasy that the USSR (Russia) could ever have ever successfully invaded America either, though one that some people still apparently cherish.

                  One could argue that FDR’s some of nationalizations and projects were excessive too. In fact that was argued and the SCOTUS agreed. Overall, however, I would say he certainly was a very good leader for America, on balance.

                  1. Mr. K:

                    “Japanese never could have staged a successful invasion of the mainland USA.”
                    Had Midway gone another way, they could have and were planning it.

                  2. Kurtz, Germany:

                    “Germany will reopen many of its shops next Monday and some of its schools from May 4, as it joins other European countries in relaxing the draconian shutdown measures adopted last month to slow down the coronavirus pandemic…..

                    Germany has managed to contain coronavirus more effectively than other European countries, partly thanks to a comprehensive testing regime that allowed authorities to identify and isolate those infected with the virus at an early stage. It has the capacity to run 650,000 tests a week…..”


                    The benefits of testing are obvious and universally recommended and the feds have not come close to living up to promises made as recent;y as late March and refuse to lead that effort.


        2. Then it spreads again, a million die and panic ensues as you’re forced to close again.

          Big assumption on your part.

        3. C K07:
          There were no facts and the person’s a serial liar and buffoon, a point proven on these pages many times. Try to keep up.

          1. @mespo Seems my reply must be pending moderation for posting a link. Been a few hours but if I must repost it so be it. Anyway, it looks like you’re attacking my original post directed at mofoknows labeling btb a total schmuck. If so it’s a bit odd you’re attacking btb as a “serial liar” in defense of a man who reportedly lied 16k+ times since inauguration.

            1. Ck07::
              I read those “lies” set out by the main stream
              Propaganda arm of the Dims. They’re opinions not lies about facts but most Dims don’t know the difference between facts and opinions. So they cite it like some incantation that only results in laughter.

              1. @mespo, many of the worst lies can be researched. Whether it’s lying about the crowd size, claiming he can’t share his tax returns because he’s under audit (and still hasn’t 3 years later), saying he will be the most presidential president ever if elected and then is the most childish and vindictive, criticizing Obama for golfing so much then golfing 4x as much of the plethora of lies explicitly listed on politifact or other sites, if Obama told half of these lies there is no chance the right wouldn’t take him to task for it. He was given a hard time for gaffes like “57 states” (when it seems obvious he was thinking of the 57 presidential primary contests), “if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor” (which would be the case if they were under a health care plan most would want to keep), and whatever statements he made about guns being sold in the streets like hot cakes (any time guns that were banned in the US like AK-47s are plentiful in the hood I’m not sure how that can be disputed).

                While Obama and Bush were no choir boys when it came to lies over surveillance and WMD’s respectively, they didn’t lie over nothing. Trump can’t seem to help himself and that’s what makes someone a serial liar…

                  1. @this is absurd x XXii
                    You’re welcome. To further your education if you type “serial liar definition” into google and the following comes up: “ Pathological lying, also known as mythomania and pseudologia fantastica, is the chronic behavior of compulsive or habitual lying. Unlike telling the occasional white lie to avoid hurting someone’s feelings or getting in trouble, a pathological liar seems to lie for no apparent reason.” As opposed to ‘BytheBook’, it would seem to fit a guy Mr Turley describes to a tee:


                    1. To further your education if you type “serial liar definition” into google….

                      We have a better resource…..China News Network.

                      properly vetted sources report that former Nebraska Senator Bob Kerrey blushes in how unusually good liars China News Network is, effectively taking the mantle from Bill Clinton …..perhaps we understate

                      what’s your next talking point for today?

                    2. Ghostbusters,
                      While I don’t remember calling you it seems I can’t reply directly to you. At any rate I’ve called China out for their lies repeatedly, even as respected conservative posters here acted as if covid was a hoax or propaganda, I warned to be wary of China silencing scientists and the possibility this came from the lab gathering infected bats and was worse than they were letting on. That still doesn’t excuse the liar in chief who also peddled in labeling it propaganda despite calling for a ban. He often acts in mysterious if not completely contradictory ways, so it’s impossible to say he never gets it right when he flip flops more than the windsurfer in a Bush Kerry ad (if you hedge all your bets you have to be right occasionally). He gets a thing wrong then right then wrong again, somehow.

                      The problem is when his base tries to defend his assertions of Godhood and grandeur as he proclaims his absolute authority, sharpies the trajectory of hurricanes, and declares his golfing the least, his wall the most beautiful, his crowds the biggest, and his mind the greatest of all time, while labeling his critics serial liars, that they in turn look like hypocrites. I never thought Romney, Matt Drudge, Chris Wallace and Conway would be the last remaining conservative voices of reason as the GOP descends to Trampsanity.

                    3. CK07 – Trump is a salesman and is used to hyping things. I support him, however I take the hype with a grain (or bushel) of salt. 😉

                1. CK, here’s Gov DeWine (R-Ohio) on testing:

                  “Gov. Mike DeWine said six major hospitals have the capacity to process more tests but are hampered by a lack of re-agent and other components. The DeWine administration is pushing the federal Food and Drug Administration to approve more methods to make the re-agent. “We’re working very hard every day to increase testing. There is nothing more important as we go forward, as we try to figure out how we come back,” DeWine said. “… If we had an unlimited amount of re-agent, it wouldn’t solve every problem but it certainly would allow our institutions to really ramp up. They’ve got capacity,” DeWine said. “This is a nationwide issue. It’s one of the most frustrating issues we deal with. It is being rationed … the rationing is happening federally,” said Ohio Department of Health Director Dr. Amy Acton. “We don’t know the answer to how soon we’ll have more of it.”


                  Pence on Meet The Press dodged the question on test shortages and pivoted to how great the Dear Leader has been. They have no plan because they are purposefully dodging responsibility for coordinating test procurement, or any other supplies. This is unbelievable cowardice and shirking of duty for a political end. They hope it won’t hinder a reopening of the economy, a truly reckless plan if there ever was one without proper testing.

                  By the way, here’s CNN fact checker twitter account. He has the tedious job of listening to Dear Leader’s daily drivel.


                  1. Btb thanks for that. I saw Pence play dodge ball on Meet the Press. He deflects with such athleticism, I forgot for a moment all sports besides the WWE are on hold. Watching his response to Chuck’s repeated simple question of “what did the president mean when he tweeted “ LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!” or “liberate Michigan” “liberate minnesota” reminded me of athleticism and dexterity I have not witnessed since Jordan escaped the Detroit Pistons suffocating defense. Truly a masterclass in artful dodging

                    1. Pence was previously a talk show radio host, so gab comes easy to him.

                      In fact, both the President and VP are showmen first.

                      In either case. there are very few people as compulsively dishonest as Trump and similarly lacking principle or scruples, so Pence could be an improvement as the actual decision maker on the virus crisis. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.

                      Take the reins buddy.

                    2. there are very few people as compulsively dishonest as Trump and similarly lacking principle or scruples

                      then there is you, paragon of honesty, integrity, virtuous living and having father countless children who do it better than you

                      now that’s a scary thought

                      Take the reins buddy.

                      Thanks for the signal. We will take over from here


                    3. Mike Pence, on “Meet The Press”, was as vacuous as the sock puppets we keep finding on these threads.

                    4. CK07 – I know what I think the President means, however, I would be hard pressed to be sure I knew. Still, leftist pundits always seem to “know” don’t they. Besides, why ask Pence, they have a WH reporter, have them ask.

                2. CK07 – Politifact rated “If you want to keep your doctor, you can keep him.” as True. They also rate Hillary Clinton as the 2nd most truthful Democrat, What is wrong with the above two statements?

                  Read this to see if Politifact has a bias. https://bongino.com/yes-politifact-has-a-liberal-bias/

                  Just for you information, the first statement was later made “Lie of the Year” by Politifact.

    1. it is a problem and Trump should find a whip to crack over lazy incompetent and unpaid “business executives” until they deliver.

      instead the Federal Reserve is now buying their lame debt.

      Even as Treasury has terminated its grandiose PPP program that actually helps about 1 in 30 small businesses so far, wow, what an achievement.

      This reminds me. The guy with the bushy moustache who was going to investigate the FBI and whomever for abusing and harassing a lawful political campaign– ie Trumps. Durham. Any indictments yet? What are the results?

      I recall the FISA court scolded the FBI but will no punishments be forthcoming from the AG for the lawbreakers who swore false oaths? pathetic

    2. bythebook:

      The CDC came up with a field test that could run 12 samples a day, and failed QC testing, AFTER it was sent out to satellite labs.

      Trump threw testing open to private industry. Multiple labs came up with high throughput, accurate field assays. However, the process to get these approved by the FDA takes time.

      There are 325 million people in the US. We need at least 325 million field tests, and a billion would be better. With 650,000 testing positive, that means our country has tested millions of people for Covid-19, after getting a late start due to the CDC’s delay. Got that? There is all this talk of nationalizing the healthcare industry, and the supply lines needed for pandemics, but the government agency in charge of testing totally dropped the ball, and created one of the universal complaints: lack of testing.

      One of my friends got Covid-19. It took him over 2 weeks to get his positive diagnosis. By that time he was improving.

      And it’s the FDA causing delay in releasing more tests. There are multiple labs with field kits ready to go, but they cannot legally release them until and unless they are approved by the FDA. The onerous, glacially moving FDA. We’re lucky we have the tests through that we do. Plus, it has turned out that people can be infectious for up to 2 weeks after recovering. Just because you’re feeling better does not mean you can return to society, or you’ll be a carrier.

      So, yes, I agree that testing is a bottle neck. That bottleneck was caused by a government agency, and improved by President Trump.

      If you cannot find at least 5 major acts he has taken with the pandemic to praise, then you are blindly partisan. If you cannot find at least a few things to criticize him over, then you’re blindly partisan.

      I am so furious with the Chinese Communist Party right now for dragging the entire planet into this mess. Damn them. I hope the much abused Chinese people shake the yolk off, and put Hong Kong in charge of dragging the country into Western governance.

      1. Karen, that was well over a month ago and if you insist on crediting Trump with getting the logjam moved – doubtful he paid much attention to the details – you must fault him for it being there. He’s the President. In fact the FDA has safety procedures in place that don;t work well with a fast track response and it takes someone from on high clearing those rules. We’re in a different phase now and one only the feds can handle – get the kits made by the millions and distribute them on need. The states are creating a chaotic sellers market, just as they did with PPEs. This is not rocket science. Call it a war as Trump has, but then fight it!!

  9. Close the southern border. Open concentration camps to house illegal border crossers. Pay Mexico to close it’s borders in their south. Wipe out the cartels.
    Restart our economy soon. End sanctuary City crimes. Put the mayor in jail if he won’t report an illegal migrants in his city or jail.

  10. Argument? From the goat king? From thr uncouth, illiterate moron who just knows how make atrocious misspelled tweets.?

    1. Hutom:
      “Argument? From the goat king? From thr uncouth, illiterate moron who just knows how make atrocious misspelled tweets.”
      And yet with all that he’s still a better person than you in every conceivable way. Oh by the way, you misspelled “the.”

      1. Heck, that was supposed to post here:
        Hmmm. You deserve an Irish Poem! Because “the” is a pretty hard word to misspell.

        Hail to The???
        An Irish Poem by Squeeky Fromm

        There once was a proud Spelling Nazi!
        Who thought he was real hotsy-totsy!
        Alas for the freak!
        He went out in a pique,
        For he misspelt “the” – KAMIKAZE!!!

        Squeeky Fromm
        Girl Reporter

    2. Hutom – your comment exhibits a high level of irony.

      You are making no argument, no cogent thought yourself, but a stream of grammatically incorrect insults.

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