“Technically Black”: Atlantic Columnist Supports Biden’s Statement That Black Trump Supporters Are Not Really Black

220px-Biden_2013Former Vice President Joe Biden had a bad day yesterday after his statement during an interview with Charlamagne tha God on the radio show “The Breakfast Club” that “if you have a problem figuring out whether you’re for me or Trump, then you ain’t black.”  To Biden’s credit, he came out an apologized. (Something President Donald Trump has consistently refused to do for comments like his statement that Jewish voters who voted for the Obama Administration “do not like Israel too much”). However, Atlantic staff writer Jemele Hill has kept the controversy brewing with her insistence that Biden’s statement that over a million such Black voters in recent polling are not really (as opposed to “technically”) black was “accurate.”  The controversy raises some of the issues addressed recently in a column on the stereotyping of Trump supporters.  [Biden is also facing a push back from the NAACP which said that, despite his repeated statements to the contrary, it has never endorsed Biden or anyone else.]

We have previously discussed Hill’s controversial career at ESPN.  Now a writer for The Atlantic, Hill argued that, while clearly meant as a joke, Biden was actually right.

“The issue wasn’t what Joe Biden said, because it was accurate. The issue was that it came from Biden. It also was clearly a joke that didn’t land. But I’m wondering where all this outrage was yesterday when y’all president declared his public devotion to a Nazi sympathizer.”

That appears a reference to Trump praising the family (and “bloodline”) of Henry Ford at a visit to the Ford factory. She later added that such black voters could still be considered “technically black.”

“I don’t have a problem with the statement because he was clearly referring to this from a policy and track record standpoint. If you’re black and you support anti-black policies and positions, then that makes you …? You’re still technically black but you ain’t with us.”

358 thoughts on ““Technically Black”: Atlantic Columnist Supports Biden’s Statement That Black Trump Supporters Are Not Really Black”

  1. Any claim that if you don’t vote Democrat, you’re not really black is racist, and voter intimidation. There is intense pressure directed within and toward the black community to vote Democrat. Both whites and blacks are infamous for calling black conservative racist names, like Step N Fetchit or Uncle Tom. The rest aren’t repeatable. Racist attacks against conservative blacks is considered acceptable.

    It isn’t.

    Pressuring a black to vote Democrat is straight out of the Jim Crow and KKK era. Vote Democrat if you know what’s good for you. They are threatened with ostracism or worse.

    This. Is. Wrong.

    Go see some mostly white Democrats attacking Candace Owens where she was trying to eat at a restaurant. They scream in her face, blow whistles, and dump water on her head, because she dared to speak opinions they disagree with, and won’t vote how they want. In short, a black woman didn’t know her place.

    Democrat activist attack conservatives across the country, with regularity. It is increasingly dangerous for a conservative to speak at a college campus anywhere in America. In light of the nation’s history of Democrats terrorizing blacks who refused to vote Democrat, it is especially disturbing to see a resurgence of this behavior towards blacks.

    https://youtu.be/NrhTYEYnUuQ

  2. Jonathan: Yes, black people are not a monolithic voting group despite the stereotypes that are placed on them. They generally vote their pocketbooks just like everyone else. So it is not surprising that some black voters, especially in the upper income percentiles, will vote for Trump in November. Class interest always trumps racial identity. But I think most black voters understand that Trump has not been good for them the past 3 years. From lack of economic progress to the coronavirus and the shutdown of the economy, they know the burden has fallen unequally on them. In terms of voting black people understand how the system works. In southern and other states where Republicans control the legislatures black people have been racially gerrymandered. This year Trump and the Republican party are ramping up efforts to suppress the Democratic vote–especially among blacks and other minorities. The GOP plans to employ 50,000 to “watch” polling stations in an effort to intimidate potential Democratic voters–a practice no longer outlawed by prior court rulings. Republicans also plan to spend $20 million on nefarious lawsuits to purge voter rolls and challenge voting by mail. Trump plans to capitalize on the coronavirus crisis to keep voter turnout low–especially among minorities. Black people know that Trump really doesn’t like them.

    Speaking of gaffes Trump didn’t help his case with Jewish voters when he spoke this week at the Ford plant in Michigan. He praised Henry Ford’s and his “good bloodlines”. As everyone knows Ford was a staunch anti-semite who is infamous for distributing the anti-semitic hoax “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion”. The Nazis in Germany were so enamored with Ford they translated and distributed his anti-semitic articles published in Ford’s newspaper. So if Biden had a verbal gaffe this week Trump’s praising Henry Ford, the poster boy for anti-semitism in the early twentieth century, wins hands down!

    Frankly, I don’t think black voters need a lecture from a white academic about “identity politics”. which you think “denies the ability or intellect of African American voters to reach their own reasoned judgment on supporting candidates other than Joe Biden”. Black voters will make their own decisions without your condescending appeals. You didn’t help your appeal by adding that your preferred president was James Madison. Again, everyone knows Madison was a slave owner, inheriting his 100 slaves from his father. When President Jefferson chose Madison as his secretary of state, Madison brought his slaves with him to Washington, D.C.to run his household. He continued this practice after he became president and ultimately sold his slaves for personal profit. Of course, this practice was common to the elites at the time because the capitol was built and maintained on the backs of enslaved people. Black people know Madison’s slave owning past so for you to mention Madison as the “last president I liked” only reinforces their opinion that many white academics, like you, just don’t get it! Of all the non-slave owning presidents you could have selected you chose the slave owner. So don’t be surprised if black people tune you out after this post.

    1. Blacks are a monolithic voting bloc and their voting behavior in general elections is insensitive to ambient conditions. The ratios are the same every year.

  3. Obama is mullato, or half breed as Cher put it in her famous song.
    Is Obama a natural born citizen ? Who cares if he’s from Hawaii, and of course he isn’t black. He’s half black, and half white. The dems love the one drop rule. Very racist.
    Now let’s have the history, not the history of where the black jesus was born… but the real truth, was he qualified to be a POTUS ? The answer of course is NO.

    “He reiterated his statement in 1866:

    Every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural-born citizen; but, sir, I may be allowed to say further that I deny that the Congress of the United States ever had the power, or color of power to say that any man born within the jurisdiction of the United States, not owing a foreign allegiance, is not and shall not be a citizen of the United States. ”
    (who said it)

    Now, there we have the answer, and of course, all the brain dead idiot monkeys could care less. Like I said, we entered a very dark period where plain common sense was thrown out the window, and we got what we “deserved”. I didn’t deserve it, but most did.

    I await the astounding attacks and dismissals and pretend ignorance.
    We are no longer it seems, worried one bit about loyalty, or some kind of “allegiance to any foreign sovereignty” – why that would destroy the ego and arrogance – doesn’t everyone in the world want to be an American ? YES, of course they do ! *applause please*

    Now, the living constitution is amazing – every boneheaded fruitcake and newly illuminated social warrior has their opinion… of course they are nearly always wrong.
    We broke the rule with Obama. Almost no one cared, likely even less still do.

    Next comes anchor babies for POTUS, because if one foreigner parent is okay, two are great ! Expect it fools. You are fools.

    Pro tip: You can’t prove me wrong. I don’t mean the sarcasm in the last sentence(s) and elsewhere. If you’re into the living breathing constitution, you will deny, deny and lie.

    Not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty – who cares !? Right, geniuses ! I’m so proud of you, your brilliance and shining lights of inclusion. My God. We do need help.

    1. I’m really struggling to understand why blacks wouldn’t be drawn to a party with people like Shakdi.

      Keep up the good work.

      1. Oh look, the racist brought up race. Nice counter bookworm. He also knows the nature of the race, the black race, their minds, as a whole.
        LOL
        Any comment on the obvious I pointed out, with historical text ?
        No, of course not.

        I await a rebuttal, one that will never come.

    2. “The dems love the one drop rule. Very racist.”

      I think some of the Nazi’s believed the Democrat Rule too harsh under Nazi leadership.

    3. Look I am a Black American who finds very little to be proud of with Obama. Still challenging his citizenship is and was foolish. Without question his mother was an American. Through Her his citizenship is firm. Now if you want to talk about the more than 100,000 Black babies murdered by planned Parenthood, whom he publicly both supported and defended . . . That is a different matter

  4. David Mamet had a famous saying, essentially:

    …‘in order for democrats, liberals, progressives et al to continue their illogical belief systems they have to pretend not to know a lot of things’…

    By pretending ‘not to know’ there is no guilt, no actual connection to conscience. Denial of truth allows morally, and emotionally easier trespass. One of the remarkable things about the Trump era has been the ease with which “resistance” media has extolled the virtues of the “ends justifying the means”, of adopting “the noble lie” — no matter how transparently and provably absurd — if it “has a chance of beating Trump”.

    And here we find ourselves, once again: an author willing to Eat Babies (haha, only kidding, remember that Swiftian satire, peasant? No — didn’t you go to a university, peasant?) but also to de-person colored folk if they don’t vote as a predictable 90% Democrat bloc, election after election, like good little livestock.

    I’ve never faulted blacks for voting this way. I understand how economic incentives work. As Charlamagne Tha God said after the interview, “My only question is: what have you done for me lately?” This is how blacks (and most minorities) are conditioned by our system: to see government as a competition to bribe them for votes. That’s why it was often said by many “black community leaders” (imagine if your race had “community leaders”) that ‘Obama did nothing for the black community”; all his policies were aimed at the wrong (elite) groups: Silicon Valley executives, Wall Street bankers, insurance companies. He ignored the (peasant) black interests in practice, while paying lip service to them with his rhetoric (and the Black Lives Matter head-fake). Like many elite blacks, he viewed the “peasant” black vote of something to take for granted, that blacks had been conditioned, either by lifelong Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt to vote in a monolithic bloc for Democrats, or could be manipulated to last minute by some good “lynching” fears in the media…

    2016 proved that assumption false, as they simply didn’t turn out to vote. Hillary alienated the white working class (as Joy Reid predicted “they were now irrelevant”), and took the “peasant black” vote for granted, just like her predecessor did, just like Biden is doing now. If there are no decent bribes made by either party, most minorities simply won’t turn out to vote — Biden knew this, that’s why he said that; he wasn’t dodging the question, he was dog whistling — but in an absent minded way that revealed his cynicism. That’s why Charlamagne didn’t even flinch when Biden made that remark (revealing his own cynicism). It took him two or three days to realize the significance, and decide such a comment had to be addressed.

    Whites (people of European descent) are far more assimilated into the political system, at least to the point that they are conditioned to think their vote is contingent on policy and philosophical appeals made by the candidates. For this reason, their vote can potentially swing, or change sides. They aren’t the primary consumers of bribes, or taught they need to rent seek while voting. Their ancestors likely were migrants to this country prior to the time of legal vote purchasing and rent seeking.

    Even though Obama did his best to change that, and Bernie appealed to a sort of rent-seeking spirit with his Medicare-for-All and Free (worthless) Education promises, his defeat made it apparent that his party has no stomach for keeping those promises. In fact, they will take out their knives and stab anyone to death on the floor of the Senate for seriously intending to keep such promises (haha, get the reference to Rome, peasant?) — because, after all, even the party that champions “socialistic” values and ideas is really just a false front for Corporate America and international finance.

    Like the leaked Amazon anti-union policies revealed, the game of stoking racial animus between various groups in the US is really just a way to keep labor from organizing and rent-seeking against corporations PERSONALLY.

  5. Birtherism: Where It All Began

    The Definitive Article From Politico

    Ironically, the birther movement didn’t really take off in earnest until the Obama team tried to debunk it.

    In June 2008, National Review conservative blogger Jim Geraghty, after debunking a number of conspiracy theories about Obama floated by fellow conservatives, asked the Obama campaign to “return the favor” and just release his birth certificate to the public to put to rest questions about both Obama’s birth and whether, as enemies claimed, his middle name was “Mohammed.”

    A few days later, the Obama campaign did exactly that. They posted Obama’s certificate of live birth on their “Fight the Smears” website and gave a copy to the liberal website Daily Kos. It was greeted with immediate cries that it was a fake.

    But Geraghty was satisfied, writing “this document is what he or someone authorized by him was given by the state out of its records. Barring some vast conspiracy within the Hawaii State Department of Health, there is no reason to think his [original] birth certificate would have any different data.”

    But others were not swayed. The release of the certificate was declared a forgery. Some bloggers pounced, saying it had Adobe Photoshop watermarks that suggested tampering, that it lacked a raised seal, that it lacked a signature and a number of other accusations.

    FactCheck.org, the non-partisan website, was allowed to examine the physical copy of the birth certificate in August 2008, and concluded it was real, that it had a raised seal, a signature and met all the State Department criteria for proof of citizenship. Combined with the state’s recognition that the record was real—and contemporary newspaper announcements of Obama’s birth, submitted by the hospitals —they concluded that he was a natural born citizen.

    “I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawai’i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai’i State Department of Health verifying Barrack (sic) Hussein Obama was born in Hawai’i and is a natural-born American citizen,” one exasperated state official said in 2008 and again in 2009 in a statement.

    “Of course, it’s distantly possible that Obama’s grandparents may have planted the announcement just in case their grandson needed to prove his U.S. citizenship in order to run for president someday,” FactCheck concluded. But, “those who choose to go down that path should first equip themselves with a high-quality tinfoil hat.”

    The website World Net Daily, for instance, has written that “Hawaii at the time of Obama’s birth allowed births that took place in foreign countries to be registered in Hawaii.” But that law was not enacted until 1982 which was 21 years after Obama’s birth was registered. Further, such a birth certificate would show the actual foreign place of birth instead of listing – as Obama’s does — Honolulu.

    In addition to declaring the document a forgery, the birther movement’s main response – echoed by the ill-informed Trump – has been to claim that only a “long form” birth certificate can be valid. But the document shown by Obama is the only one the State of Hawaii is permitted, by law, to release. It is accepted as valid by the government entities like the State Department.

    Hawaii law prevents the long-form record from being photocopied or released to anyone — including Obama. Obama himself would only be permitted to inspect it – not copy it or post it online.

    Fukino, an appointee of Linda Lingle, the former Republican governor and John McCain supporter, twice inspected the certificate. According to NBC News’ investigative correspondent Michael Isikoff, the certificate is in a bound volume, in a file cabinet in the Hawaii Department of Health.

    “Why would a Republican governor — who was stumping for the other guy — hold out on a big secret?” asked Fukino.

    By the summer of 2009, then-White House press secretary Robert Gibbs summarized how convoluted the theory had become with each round of disclosures.

    “A pregnant woman leaves her home to go overseas to have a child — who there’s not a passport for — so is in cahoots with someone…to smuggle that child, that previously doesn’t exist on a government roll somewhere back into the country and has the amazing foresight to place birth announcements in the Hawaii newspapers? All while this is transpiring in cahoots with those in the border, all so some kid named Barack Obama could run for President 46 and a half years later,” said Gibbs dismissively. “You couldn’t sell this script in Hollywood.”

    Edited from: “Birtherism: Where It All Began”

    Politico, 4/22/20

    1. Birtherism: Where It All Began, Part 2

      As Obama built a commanding lead in the polls, and was eventually became President-elect, a host of lawsuits were filed to prevent him from taking the oath of office. These lawsuits were combined with a letter-writing campaign to presidential electors as well as a fringe media campaign questioning Obama’s citizenship.

      Berg’s August 2008 lawsuit wasn’t the last. A few days after Obama decisively won the election, Alan Keyes — Obama’s former opponent in the 2004 Senate race and a presidential candidate — filed a suit against the Secretary of State in California over Obama’s eligibility. Another suit was filed by a New Jersey man, Leo Donofrio.

      A California dentist and lawyer, Orly Taitz, filed another round of suits. Every citizenship suit has been dismissed, and courts have slapped or threatened fines on some of the filers, including Taitz.

      And with both the law and the facts against them, birthers have sought to create facts and documents of their own.

      Taitz unveiled a purported Kenyan birth certificate in the summer of 2009. It was clearly a hoax – the Republic of Kenya didn’t exist when Obama was born, it was dated three years after his actual birth date, it didn’t match other contemporary Kenyan birth certificates and an anonymous blogger took credit for it, demonstrating with photos how the birthers were “punked” and how he produced the fake certificate.

      “Fine cotton business paper: $11. Inkjet printer: $35,” wrote the blogger. “Punkin’ the Birthers: Priceless.”

      A second Kenyan certificate was put on eBay in 2009, and Taitz again try to have it admitted into court as evidence, despite being an obvious hoax. And yet another hoax showed a fake sign that reads “Welcome to Kenya, Birthplace of Barack Obama” – that is both clearly Photoshopped and contains Arabic script welcoming visitors to a city in the United Arab Emirates.

      The birther purge

      In a 2008 story about campaign rumors concerning both Obama and McCain, POLITICO reported “whichever candidate wins, these campaign trail rumors will haunt his presidency.”

      The Republican Party has approached the issue with trepidation, but a 2010 poll found more than a quarter of Americans have doubts about President Obama’s birthplace.

      During the 2010 midterm campaigns, a number of Republican candidates went on record expressing doubts about President Obama’s birth. Rep. Nathan Deal, now Governor of Georgia, jumped on the birther bandwagon, becoming the first member of Congress to request Obama’s birth certificate.

      The party’s most prominent leaders, however, have firmly dismissed the notion and sought to purge birthers both from the Republican Party and from the comments section of conservative blogs.

      “I believe the president was born in the United States. There are real reasons to get this guy out of office,” former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney said recently.

      “I don’t question the authenticity of his birth certificate, but I do question what planet he’s from when I look at his policies,” former Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty joked.

      Erick Erickson, editor of the influential conservative blog RedState publicly excommunicated the birthers from his site in 2010.

      “If you think 9/11 was an inside job or you really want to debate whether or not Barack Obama is an American citizen eligible to be President, RedState is not a place for you,” he wrote.

      Some Republicans take the position out of a basic respect for facts, but they also worry about its consequences for their party.

      “It makes us look weird. It makes us look crazy. It makes us look demented. It makes us look sick, troubled, and not suitable for civilized company,” one of the first conservatives to turn against the birthers, talk show host Michael Medved, said in 2009. “I’m not a conspiracist, but this could be a very big conspiracy to make conservatives disgrace themselves.”

      Edited from: “Birtherism: Where It All Began”

      Polticio, 4/22/11

      1. REGARDING ABOVE:

        Earlier I posted a New York Times story from April of 2016. It detailed Donald Trump’s plunge into Birtherism. But Trump supporters on this blog dismissed that piece as a fabrication of some kind. Hillary Clinton, they claim, started the Birther rumor. According this article from Politico, a ‘Clinton supporter’ may have been one of the first Birthers. But it seems no exact source can be pinpointed as Conspiracy Theorist # 1.

        In any event it’s hard to explain why Donald Trump had to jump on the Birther Bandwagon. Even if Hillary started it, why would Trump follow her lead? After all Hillary is the closest we have seen to a genuine witch in American politics. It makes no sense that Trump would take his cues from Hillary.

        Here’s the link to Politico’s whole story:

        https://www.politico.com/story/2011/04/birtherism-where-it-all-began-053563

        1. Birtherism.. And It’s Links To Hillary Clinton

          In fact, birtherism, as it’s been called, reportedly began with innuendo by serial Illinois political candidate Andy Martin, who painted Obama as a closet Muslim in 2004. That spiraled into a concerted effort by conspiracy theorists to raise doubts about Obama’s birthplace and religion — and essentially paint him as un-American.

          Martin, who briefly launched a little-noticed presidential campaign last year, has disavowed the movement he’s often credited with starting, though he still foments similarly discredited doubts about Obama’s religion.

          Much of the insinuation that Clinton had a hand in birtherism traces to the role of her then-senior strategist Mark Penn, who issued a memo in 2007 suggesting that Clinton emphasize Obama’s upbringing in Hawaii and Indonesia and paint him as fundamentally un-American. The memo never questioned Obama’s citizenship but did suggest highlighting his “lack of American roots.”

          “[H]is roots to basic American values and culture are at best limited,” Penn wrote. “I cannot imagine electing a president during a time of war who is not at his center fundamentally American in his thinking and in his values.”

          The Clinton campaign never employed Penn’s strategy, and to this day it provokes sharply different perceptions among those who remember discussing it. Two sources with knowledge of the deliberations say Penn’s memo caused a “near-staff revolt” at the time it came up and contributed to factional infighting that would later hobble the campaign.

          Another source who recalled the discussion dismissed that perception as revisionist, arguing instead that the memo was barely considered at all. “This memo got about 30 seconds of discussion and the only recommendation was that she emphasize her Midwest upbringing,” the source said. “While the campaign may have disagreed on going negative on Barack Obama, this paragraph had nothing to do with those discussions and it did not in any cause any discussion of his citizenship.”

          Later, in the spring 2008, as Clinton’s chances of winning the Democratic primary grew thin, some of her hardcore supporters circulated rumors that Obama may not be a U.S. citizen, picking up on some of Martin’s innuendo and extending it further.

          “Barack Obama’s mother was living in Kenya with his Arab-African father late in her pregnancy. She was not allowed to travel by plane then, so Barack Obama was born there and his mother then took him to Hawaii to register his birth,” read one of those emails posted, at the time, by Snopes.com, a site that attempts to debunk internet rumors.

          On Friday, Clinton’s former senior aide Patti Solis Doyle acknowledged that a volunteer coordinator in Iowa forwarded a birther-related email. “Hillary made the decision immediately let that person go,” she said. “We let that person go. It was so beyond the pale of the campaign Hillary wanted to run and that we as a staff wanted to run that I called David Plouffe who was managing Barack Obama to apologize to say this is not coming from us, that this was rogue volunteer.”

          “The campaign nor Hillary did not start the birther movement, period,” she said.

          Edited from “No, Clinton Didn’t Start The Birther Thing. This Guy Did”

          Politico: 9/16/16

          1. He challenged Obama to produce his long form certificate, which Obama eventually did. This shouldn’t bother you.

        2. “n any event it’s hard to explain why Donald Trump had to jump on the Birther Bandwagon. Even if Hillary started it, why would Trump follow her lead?”

          Such a simple problem made difficult. All Americans have birth certificates. The law says American born so it is up to the one running for the position to produce the proof. Obama chose not to.

          Perhaps the headline should have read: Obama Too Arrogant to Comply With the Law and Provide Proof of His Place of Birth.

          1. In law there is a ‘best evidence rule’ meaning in cases like this nothing but the official document can be admitted as evidence. Talk is not a substitute for the authoritative document. There is no doubt that when it comes to Obama’s birth certificate nobody has yet seen the legal best evidence that would be admissible in court. Why? It is not a frivolous issue. Was he born in Hawaii? Probably, but with all the yammering it never has been demonstrated with evidence that would be admitted in court.

            1. A birth certificate was shown but was it legitimate? I don’t know but I feel comfortable that he was legitimately a natural born citizen. He is an opportunist that climbs the ladder of success with the help of many making sure that others in his way are pushed off the ladder.

              The continuous scandals of his Administration are typical of Obama (the created creature) and those that supported his rise.

              1. I am reasonably sure the birth certificate shown was not genuine. The forensic document team Sheriff Arpaio asked to examine the certificate demonstrated their techniques on the electronic certificate (no hard copy was produced) and it appeared fraudulent. They did not do an appeal to authority. Anybody truly familiar with pdf documents could do the same thing and get the same results. When I scan into a pdf format I get a relatively simple document. The pdf birth certificate had multiple layers of different documents mixed to produce something no single scan could do and those layers could be peeled back one by one. Obama never claimed that was his bc. It was simply released. There are a lot of mysteries to this business.

                You might still be able to find the video of the team demonstrating their work though, since it is political, you might to use a search engine other than Google. Seth uses Google to not find things.

                1. “I am reasonably sure the birth certificate shown was not genuine.”

                  Young I agree that is a good possibility, however all other data indicates he is American born. Some say they used a different birth certificate to hide paternity.

                  1. Yes, there could be a question as to paternity. Governor Abercrombiew was crowing he would see the birth certificate himself when elected. Later he admitied he could never find it.

                    No authentic birth certificate has been produced. The media keep saying the issue is settled and people begin to believe it, but it appears not to have been settled.

                    Obama could resolve it immediately. All he has to do is authorize Hawaii to release a cerified copy. He has never done that.

              2. A presidential requirement is one has to be a natural born citizen.
                I see near everyone is completely clueless.
                The reason for the requirement is loyalty to the USA.
                What is a natural born citizen ?
                (I bet you all get this question wrong.)

                1. “What is a natural born citizen ? (I bet you all get this question wrong.)”

                  I hope you are not a gambler by trade. 🙂

                  A simple definition would be a person that is natural born need not go through naturalization proceedings. That includes children born abroad to US citizens.

                  Three factors determine a person’s ability to be President; age, residency and citizenship (or citizen at the time the Constitution was adopted).

                  Natural born citizen in the US is an evolution from English common law, born within the territory excluding enemy aliens and foreign diplomats. I think the British common law definition at least at one time required paternal citizenship.

                  Place of birth for a natural born citizen is not too much of a question especially since John McCain’s nomination and eligibility approval.

                  You are likely going to make the argument that it was only paternity that counted. The Naturalization Act cancels that argument as long as the father had at some point been a resident. The question further disappeared as Congress removed the difference between the mothers and fathers when considering eligibility.

          2. He produced a certificate issued by the State of Hawaii derived from his long form. You can get a copy of your long form in Hawaii, but they’re not in general circulation. Obama compared to other national politicians is a secretive man by default. When Dr. Taitz and others began making an issue of it, he appears to have made a bank shot and let them invest effort into the task so they wouldn’t be investing efforts in getting the documents he really wanted concealed.

            NB, Occidental, Columbia, and Harvard have been much more careful to keep Obama’s transcripts under lock-and-key than Harvard, Yale, and BC were in re Bush-the-Younger, Kerry, and Gore. Also, John McCain offered quite detailed expositions of his medical history, with the papers on the table and q & a sessions offered. Obama had his internist issue a one-page letter. You want to know what he doesn’t want you to see, its there. Documentation from John Kerry’s military service was also not released to anyone but one reporter who was in his pocket (at the same time the media was insisting George W. Bush produce images of the microfiche copies of his pay stubs in the Texas Air National Guard). The smart money says both Kerry and Obama have been concealing psychiatric treatment.

            (See Camille Paglia’s assessment of John McCain’s inner life: he’s not the sort of person who responds to talk therapy. As for Mitt Romney, George Bush the Elder, Ronald Reagan, Gerald Ford, Walter Mondale, and Hubert Humphrey, they were sanguine personalities of the sort who do not have those sorts of problems. Jimmy Carter is a non-sanguine personality who would not have much to discuss with those people. George W Bush might have benefited from counseling over his heavy drinking and George McGovern over how to handle his daughter’s boozing. Richard Nixon despised psychiatrists too thoroughly to ever consent to speak to one. As for the Clintoons, purveyors of the talking cure cannot do much for those on the sociopath-psychopath spectrum).

            1. I don’t think he ever produced a certificate or authorizdr the release of a cerificate. He spent a couple million in court to prevent a release.

              The digital copy you are likely referencing is probably the same one exposed as a fraud by a forensic team. The video of their work is persuasive. They show you how to undo the document yourself.

              1. I don’t think he ever produced a certificate or authorizdr the release of a cerificate. He spent a couple million in court to prevent a release.

                He produced his long form years ago.

                The notion he spent $2 million to prevent people from obtaining a document to which they had no legal right is an urban legend.

                1. Simply declaring it is so does not make it so. The pdf document supposed to be his bc was not produced by him and it was ripped apart by a forensic document team. It would never be accepted as evidence in court. I believe I recall reading about the court action while it was ongoing and asking myself, “Why is he spending so much money fighting something so innocuous?” I have never been able to answer that question.

                  1. Simply declaring it is so does not make it so. The pdf document supposed to be his bc was not produced by him and it was ripped apart by a forensic document team.

                    No, Joe Arpaio hired a crew of firms (one of whom had no expertise in the area) to make this claim. You take that seriously because you feel like it. There was another crew of ‘experts’ who claimed the digital image of the birth certificate of Eleanor Darragh (Ted Cruz mother) was a fake. The people making claims like this are everywhere.

                    Gov. Lingle’s health commissioner and the Registrar of Vital Statistics shlepped down to the archives and found the form in a looseleaf binder just where you’d expect it to be. You fancy they made this up, or that some mole in the registrar’s office manufactured a fake certificate and slipped it into the looseleaf?

                    What’s your alternative scenario? That a couple of impecunious college students undertake expensive and time consuming international travel to avail themselves of the splendor of obstetric care in Mombasa? Or so Barack Obama Sr could introduce his wife to his preggers mistress? And that Stanley Dunham got Kapiolani Hospital to issue a fake birth notice to the Honolulu Advertiser just for kicks?

                    This is just a clownish waste of time.

                    1. DSS – the County Sheriff’s volunteers did the work on the bc. No outside firms were hired and no county money was expended.

                    2. Obviously you haven’t watched the presentation they gave showing what they discovered.

                      What I don’t get is why you are so emotionally invested in this. I am not intense in opposing flat earthers because their claims are actually clownish. This is not.

                      Paul is right. Volunteers did the work and they explained each step in their investigation. Whom will you believe, CNN or your lying eyes?

                    3. Obviously you haven’t watched the presentation they gave showing what they discovered.

                      I’ve seen it and I wasn’t impressed. Even if I didn’t guess they were trying to scam people without a technical background, the ‘finding’ cannot be reconciled with any other piece of information.

                    4. DSS – the County Sheriff’s volunteers did the work on the bc. No outside firms were hired and no county money was expended.

                      Sorry, not buying.

                      Paul, you have two choices here. Choice one is that your attention-whore Sheriff got some incompetents / clowns to produce PR nonsense for him, or that for some peculiar reason a pair of impecunious college students traveled abroad when one of them was eight months pregnant while her father persuaded a local hospital to put a bogus birth announcement in the newspaper. Then 50-odd years later, her son gets prominent officials of the Hawaii state government to lie for him while some IT tech gins up a fake certificate that only people who work for Joe Arpaio know how to expose.

                      They lived in Honolulu. Why would you expect their child to be born anywhere else?

                    5. Absurd– I never said O wasn’t born in Hawaii. I don’t know what I don’t know.

                      But wherever he was born it is darned peculiar that he refuses to authorize the release of a certified copy of his bc and stranger still that the image that has been released will not stand up to relatively simple forensic analysis.

                      There is a mystery here and it has never been cleared up.

                    6. Paul– Thanks for that video. He actually shows how the fraud could have been done better. They should have hired him. This guy makes no claim as to the accuracy of the information, just that the form itself is not genuine. Arpaio’s people make the information itself suspect.

                    7. Young – Arpaio’s people, in their long form video, show that the info is suspect and the form is bogus. They make no claims as to whether Obama is a US citizen.

                    8. Absurd– I never said O wasn’t born in Hawaii. I don’t know what I don’t know.

                      You’re quite tiresome with this shuck and jive.

                      Again, he released the certificate 8 years ago. And what happens? Well, some of the people pushing this went on to other hobbies and you have die hards who did just what Ann Coulter predicted.

                      The Cruz birthers fancied that the campaign put up a fake digital image of his mother’s birth certificate when there is digitized documentation of her family’s presence around Philadelphia going back umpteen generations. That includes her parents’ marriage certificate, census returns, death certificates and court cases.

                      You don’t take purveyors of these IT black boxes seriously because they’re offering a compelling argument.

                    9. Young – Arpaio’s people, in their long form video, show that the info is suspect and the form is bogus. They make no claims as to whether Obama is a US citizen.

                      1. Since when are you in a position to have critical engagement with what they’re attempting to show?

                      2. Why would Obama’s people put out a digital fake? Gov. Lingle’s health commissioner found the hard copy in the archives. The data fields in period long forms are quite unremarkable.

                    10. DSS – 1. I live in Arpaio’s county and watched the long form video, 2, If you were a Kenyan, as his dust jacket says, then I would forge a birth certificate to make myself a citizen. They just weren’t very good at it.

                2. “prevent people from obtaining a document to which they had no legal right is an urban legend.”

                  That’s a peculiar statement. The people who never sued to get Obama’s bc had no legal right to it?

                  Your mind has copied and pasted two disparate arguments together.

                  1. No, it didn’t. Obama himself did not have possession of his long form, so it does no good to sue him personally. You can sue the Registrar of Vital Statistics in Honolulu to produce it, and their GC will show up and tell the court that it’s a confidential document and you don’t have standing, and they get a ruling in their favor. Unless you fancy Obama has to pay the salary of the GC for the Registrar of Vital Statistics in Honolulu, no clue where the $2 million is being spent.

                    1. Obama could authorize its release. He didn’t. He won’t. The document released by someone is phony.

                    2. Who told you Obama didn’t have a copy of his long form bc? For a skeptic you seem very sure of information you could not possibly have. Anyone can obtain a copy of his own long form bc.

                1. Thanks Allan! Very good video. The team Arpaio put together spent weeks on it and in their demonstration they went into greater depth and actually peeled different documents merged to create this one. When they were done I thought whoever did this fraud didn’t put much effort into hiding the deception, but then they didn’t need to with a lickspittle media supporting them.

                  We still have not seen an authentic bc and Obama still hasn’t approved its release.

                  Something very wrong there.

                  1. Hey, you guys are missing the roll out of the new conspiracy product: Joe Scarborough is a murderer! Your handler and our President is tweeting up a storm over it.

                  1. Did you watch the video? Tell us how he got it wrong? Tell us how the forensic team Arpaio put together got it wrong? You can’t because the evidence speaks for itself. Crap like this document is why courts have a Best Evidence rule.

                  2. Maybe he prefers to work things out for himself rather than have CNN tell him what to think. I certainly do.

                  3. Compared to other things being discussed this is not a waste of time. I don’t doubt Obama is a natural born citizen. I don’t doubt that his and other records can prove that. However, there is a lot of doubt surrounding this issue along with a potential forgery. That doubt is crushed by the MSM further demonstrating the fact that they do not do the job we all think is needed.

                    I don’t know what your argument is when someone reveals another important issue that the press failed to investigate.

                    1. The press ‘failed to investigate’ it because it actually is an unpromising line of inquiry.

                      Ann Coulter said some years ago that releasing the long-form certificate wouldn’t do much good because the people pushing this would just retreat to another contrived objection. I think Dr. Taitz hung up her shoes after the long-form was released, but others persisted with ever dizzier complaints. There is a cultural impulse to make simple things complicated, just to amuse the promoter. This issue is a straightforward example of that. The Kennedy assassination is, of course, the echt example.

                    2. “The press ‘failed to investigate’ it because it actually is an unpromising line of inquiry.”

                      Come, come DSS. The Press has an agenda and finding that the certificate was fraudulent wouldn’t satisfy that agenda.

                      “Ann Coulter said some years ago that releasing the long-form certificate wouldn’t do much good because the people pushing this would just retreat to another contrived objection. ”

                      DSS, are you saying that just because some would continue to object should be considered 100% valid? That sounds absurd. The requirement to become President is for one to be natural born. Once the birth certificate was used as proof and noting that Obama’s own agents published the opposite, the birth certificate became important.

                2. https://twitter.com/LockedDown2020/status/1259703886840918016

                  There’s more analyzing different parts. I still have the original from WH posting.
                  Hasn’t any skeptic ever used a scanner and a computer ?
                  I guess not.
                  Laughing – it’s so a fraud it’s impossible to claim otherwise.
                  Every rube in America can prove it to themselves in far less than 1 hour with a scanner and a computer, even a noob.

                  1. The interesting thing is not whether Obama was born in this country and eligible for the Presidency. I believe that is true. Why the hiding? The answer to that question tells us more about who Obama is. History is likely to reveal the truth and when they find the truth and find out who Obama is it will not be surprising to find that many had the answer all along.

                    1. He isn’t hiding anything, Allan. The long form was released 8 years ago. It’s a reasonable inference he didn’t bother beforehand because the crank caucus was making fools of themselves and, in their quest for his birth certificate, was not seeking the material he really did want hidden. You’re ‘asking questions’ about things that have long been answered (and were never much in doubt).

                    2. “He isn’t hiding anything, Allan. ”

                      DSS, Obama is hiding plenty. You just don’t know what he is hiding and likely you will never find out. I think it is a reasonable question as to whether or not the birth certificate posted was real or phony. My bet is the latter but that doesn’t mean the data wasn’t real.

                      “You’re ‘asking questions’ about things that have long been answered (and were never much in doubt).”

                      The questions have long been answered to you personally but that is a low barrier unless you have knowledge that none of us can possibly have. The question about the veracity of the posted certificate is wide open and I don’t know why you deny the question entirely. At the present time I don’t find much value in its discussion but that doesn’t close the issue.

                      Let me ask you. Assuming the birth certificates were in a normal paper file when Obama was born in 1961, how hard do you think it would have been to remove that piece of paper and replace it with another?

            2. Absurd– Riddle this one for me:

              If the questioned digital copy is genuine, why doesn’t Obama authorize the release of a certified original from Hawaii?

              Nothing left to hide, right?

              But he hasn’t done it and he won’t do it.

              Something wrong here.

              1. It’s a unique document. He can have it copied and the copies distributed. He cannot take the original. This isn’t that difficult.

                1. He can have a certified copy that can be copied in a single layer. I have certified and uncertified copies of my own. Certified is a legal document, uncertified is informational. Not that hard to understand.

                  It occurs to me that a fraudulent document, and possibly not a very competent fraud at that, is a lovely red herring to be dragged through the weeds. Nobody chasing it wonders why Obama continues to resist official release from Hawaii. Red herrings are so attractive.

                  I retain a strain of doubt despite my suspicions. You should wonder why you are so absolutely certain of something of which none of us can be certain.

                  Would you try to rely on an informational copy in a legal proceeding?

                  1. Some people have a “professional look” mental block. They cannot possibly allow themselves to appear to others as doubtful. The truth doesn’t matter, pretending to already know it is the most important to save face.
                    Believing anything like this could slip by is too disturbing and “conspiracy minded”. A certain decorum “must be maintained”.
                    I have no idea if the document was assembled as a psyop from legitimate information, or as a CYA by Obamaites, or some other collection of “reasons”.
                    It’s just very surprising. Loretta Fuddy is dead. Gosh, what luck.
                    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/411247268763676673

                    I hope to see our first full foreigner POTUS, because I’m inclusive. Not letting Kissinger on the shortlist was really mean. A good CPUSA foreigner is a good future. Pic will go between my Che and Mao flags on the wall, and below Bernie. It’s time we let everyone be a full blooded American, like my University taught me.

                    1. Shakdi– Good point about knowledge and the professional look. You might need to convey the impression that you truly know everything in some fields but you shouldn’t do it so well that you convince yourself.

                      If I tried to lay claim to a large inheritance by posting a digital copy of a Will that raises the same questions we have seen with O’s b.c., I wouldn’t collect a dime.

                      But since it was only the presidency at issue, who cares?

  6. The man says. ” If you’re black and you support anti-black policies and positions, then that makes you …? You’re still technically black but you ain’t with us.”
    OK does that apply to OBAMA and his open support of planned Parenthood ?? The greatest killer of Black American babies in history.

  7. Gosh so cranky and fast to attack. I was enjoying the history lesson.
    I get to define black, and Obama doesn’t have the genetics for it, period.

  8. Judge Sullivan has reportedly hired a trial attorney, Beth Wilkinson, to argue his case [and now it is his case] before the Court of Appeals. Avenatti is out of jail on a Wuhan Virus Release. This could only get better if Sullivan hired him.

    I suspect the Court of Appeals will not be pleased with this new development.

    In Medieval times sometimes a large group of knights would hold a melee and all charge in and battle each other.

    This is beginning to look like a melee of judges and lawyers and ‘journalists’, robes,, phones and briefcases flying everywhere.

    I am ashamed of the profession, but it is getting fun to watch.

    1. Interesting choice of lawyers. Wilkinson’s clients have been David Petraeus, Philippe Reines + Hillary Cheryl Mills, Jake Sullivan, Heather Samuelson during the Clinton email investigation.

      She’s married to David Gregory, former moderator of Meet the Press and a CNN analyst. @adamscrabble

    2. Another question posed: who is paying for this high-priced lawyer? Certainly not the taxpayers, right Judge Sullivan?

    3. ‘Sullivan is now a one-man circus as judge, prosecutor, AND defendant in the same case.’ – Jenna Ellis, Esq.

          1. That sounds like an interesting possibility. He could be the perpetrator and the victim as well as the prosecutor and judge. But I want to hear the details of the crime.

  9. Could you imagine Trump telling some white person that if you don’t vote for me your not white. When does this crap stop?

  10. Why Wouldn’t Blacks Like Trump?

    In 2016 The New York Times Recalled Trump’s Plunge Into Birtherism.

    Joseph Farah, a 61-year-old author, had long labored on the fringes of political life, publishing a six-part series claiming that soybeans caused homosexuality and fretting that “cultural Marxists” were plotting to destroy the country.

    But in early 2011, he received the first of several calls from a Manhattan real estate developer who wanted to take one of his theories mainstream.

    That developer, Donald J. Trump, told Mr. Farah that he shared his suspicion that President Obama might have been born outside the United States and that he was looking for a way to prove it.

    “What can we do to get to the bottom of this?” Mr. Trump asked him. “What can we do to turn the tide?”

    Mr. Farah recalled that Mr. Trump even proposed dispatching private investigators to Hawaii, Mr. Obama’s birthplace, to resolve the debate.

    Mr. Trump’s eagerness to embrace the so-called birther idea — long debunked, and until then confined to right-wing conspiracy theorists — foreshadowed how, just five years later, Mr. Trump would bedevil his rivals in the Republican presidential primary race and upend the political system.

    In the birther movement, Mr. Trump recognized an opportunity to connect with the electorate over an issue many considered taboo: the discomfort, in some quarters of American society, with the election of the nation’s first black president. He harnessed it for political gain, beginning his connection with the largely white Republican base that, in his 2016 campaign, helped clinch his party’s nomination.

    “The appeal of the birther issue was, ‘I’m going to take this guy on, and I’m going to beat him,’” said Sam Nunberg, who was one of Mr. Trump’s advisers during that period but was fired from his current campaign. “It was a great niche and wedge issue.”

    And starting in March 2011, when he first began to test the idea that a reality television star with no political experience could mount a campaign for the presidency, Mr. Trump could not stop talking about it.

    “Why doesn’t he show his birth certificate?” he asked on ABC’s “The View.” “I want to see his birth certificate,” he told Fox News’s “On the Record.” And on NBC’s “Today Show,” he declared, “I’m starting to think that he was not born here.”

    Edited From: “Inside The Six Weeks Donald Trump Was A Nonstop Birther”

    The New York Times, 4/2/16

      1. Young, a real lawyer, married to doctor, might appreciate good writing. But that isn’t ‘you’, of course.

        1. Some people aren’t looking for fiction in their newspapers no matter how good the writing is. You obviously are not one of those people.

      2. “Why would anybody like the New York Times?”

        Young as I previously discussed with PCS my glassblower friends use wet newspapers to help shape the hot glass. According to them the NYTImes is best because it uses a different type of ink than the other papers.

        Other people use the wide pages of the NYTimes for the bottoms of their cages big and small. I think Paint Chip’s cage is lined with the Washington Post and the NY times because he is so full of it that one newspaper a day doesn’t work.

    1. Hillary and thugs were the first to breathe life into what became the Birther wildfire, the initial spark itself originating in publicity for a first Obama book when he was unknown. He thought it would help his credibility to have Kenya listed as birthplace.
      None of this info is in print anymore…..Big surprise.

        1. Seth……LOL What a ridiculous statement. And this from a guy who, with a straight face, cites NYT as a credible source?
          I’ll make my own rules, thank you.

      1. Cindy– Good memory!. I had forgotten that. Hillary did breathe life into it.

        Whatever the truth of the matter, Obama spent a couple million in court fighting attempts to see the certficate and still hasn’t released it. What is he hiding that is worth two million to him?

        1. Young……those of us who used to blog with former CIA guy Larry Johnson heard all about it. Sid Blumenthal was Hillary’s main man in the birther deal. And Sid was a close friend of Larry’s. None of this is a secret now.

          1. P.S. Sid is the one who distributed, via internet, the unflattering buffoonish pic of Obama in native Kenyan costume, during 2008 primary season.

            1. I didn’t know that. That picture should be circulated again too bad there isn’t a picture of him eating a dog. Said he did in his b.s. book.

          2. “…those of us who used to blog with former CIA guy Larry Johnson…” -Cindy Bragg

            “Used to blog with” means that she read his blog and posted comments.

            lol

              1. “Jealousy”

                Not an ounce of it, but no one should be surprised that you’d go there.

                “made us feel like family”

                Sure, he did. You gave him money. What a joke.

                “correspondences”

                lol

            1. Obama has himself and his own people to blame. He is an opportunist.

              “Barack Obama, the first African-American president of Harvard Law Review, was born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii.”:

              That wasn’t written by Trump or Clinton rather Obama’s own agents.

                1. Cindy, it was published on a promotional piece and repeated. I don’t think there was any question of the quotes legitimacy. Plug the quote into Duck Duck go. If you don’t find the source I’ll do a search.

                  1. Allan…….Thank you! I read it several years ago but couldn’t find it again. I believe it was on a brochure type printout, publicity for the book.

                    1. Yes, exactly so it is difficult to find the original though the quote exists everywhere.

        2. Whatever the truth of the matter, Obama spent a couple million in court fighting attempts to see the certficate and still hasn’t released it. What is he hiding that is worth two million to him?

          No clue where this nonsense meme got started. His long form certificate was sitting in the archives of the Registrar of Vital Statistics in Hawaii. Obama never had possession of it. There wouldn’t have been any legal expenses because no third party had standing to sue for it.

          Since the long form was released, you can see what’s on it, which is nothing unexpected. Images of period long forms were already in circulation and the data fields already known.

        1. A marketing maven for his publisher put that on a book blurb. I wouldn’t put it past her to have made it up.

          Whether it was convenient for him or not, there is no doubt he was born in Honolulu.

          1. Where he was born was never a point.
            His Dad wasn’t a US citizen.
            We do have a history of this problem with a certain past President.
            I am surprised you have no clue.

            1. Soetero/Obama looks just like his father, the real one, Frank Marshal Davis. Not at all like the goat farmer from Kenya.

              1. He doesn’t look like Frank Marshall Davis in any particular. Davis was a rather generic looking black man, which Obama certainly is not.

                Davis is known to have been a personal friend of Stanley Dunham ca. 1971. Obama was conceived in the fall of 1960, just five months after the Dunhams arrived in Honolulu. Unlike Barack Obama Sr., there are no known paths of association between Ann Dunham and Frank Marshall Davis. Davis in 1960 lived 15 miles from the Dunhams and was running a paper distributorship. He was 37 years older than Ann Dunham and living with his wife. Barack Obama Sr was enrolled at the University of Hawaii, was thousands of miles from his wife, and his association with her is attested by their contemporaries at the University (among them Gov. Abercrombie).

                1. Barry Soetero became Barack H. Obama and wrote (allegedly he wrote it) a book about his life while he was a nobody. His life was nothing worth writing about except for his own personal interest. So many questions as to why someone could change their name and their history and their identity as a complete unkown who rose to become POTUS. So many questions that have never been adequately answered about Barack Obama. Maybe before Trump leaves office he will do the country a great public service and open up the vault that contains the mysteries about Barry/Barack?

          2. It might have been convenient for him to have attended university as a foregn student.

            Obama has very flexible facts.

            His friend, Abercrombie said he would confirm the birth certificate if elected governor. He was elected, did a search, and admitted he couldn’t find it.

            Obama spent a lot of money in court fighting requests to release it. What is there that is worth a couple mil to keep hidden?

            Even if stipulating he was born in Hawaii, something stinks.

            1. He was elected, did a search, and admitted he couldn’t find it.

              Fiction

              Obama spent a lot of money in court fighting requests to release it.

              Fiction.

    2. Peter, no one but idiot news junkies cares about this cr!p. This doesn’t explain black voting behavior.

      1. Absurd, birtherism alone explains why the vast majority of Blacks were hostile to Trump from Day 1.

        Why should they like Trump when he spent so much effort spreading lies about Obama??

        1. Absurd, birtherism alone explains why the vast majority of Blacks were hostile to Trump from Day 1.

          In your imagination only, Peter. That Trump challenged Obama 9 years ago to produce his long-form certificate interests no one but onanists like you. Gov. Abercrombie also suggested he produce it.

    3. Trump did send an investigative team to Hawaii. I believe it was the Diane Sawyer interview where he related that. He also said he didn’t like what he was finding out.
      After the fraudulent composition was posted on whitehouse dot gov, Trump belittled it – claiming he didn’t know what that thing was…
      He is of course correct. Not that the (R) party wasn’t having vapors and still does over the thought.
      I am surprised the image doesn’t immediately raise red flags with everyone who has ever used a scanner. There is literally no possible way to produce what was posted with a scanner. The outside protection paper is added, and it’s obvious. The left edge of the folded booklet visible doesn’t match the green protection paper border to the left of it, and it shouldn’t be there.
      One may say so what they prettied it up for the public.
      Ignore the changes in Hawaii’s laws in the matter made during the controversy, and be more in the dark. Never check the laws that were present when Obama was born, and range toward clueless. There was plenty of available information at the time, but we know how most people are. Happy to be ignorant.
      I know it’s a fraud, but then I have reason to. I have skills.
      PDF reader, something installed on nearly every windows machine for many years, shows plainly the composition of the DL right off WH gov. It’s an open and shut case.
      Saying all that, I don’t even care about it as it is a misdirection and a ruse, and only shows IMO how corrupt the democrats already were by then. How clueless my fellow Citizens are.
      Of course Obama’s daddy was never a US Citizen and certainly wasn’t at his birth so Obama was never qualified to be POTUS. That was ignored in favor of the where was he born and cert of live birth (not birth certificate – and not what would be contained in the archive if anything was there). Then the lady that was front and center Obama spokey died as the only victim in the plane crash in some waters there in Hawaii – I didn’t make that up. Bad luck. All that right wing racist hatred killed her through the ethers. Sad.

      Obama was never qualified, Daddy wasn’t a US citizen when Obama was born. The truth is clear, and always ignored. I congratulate the shockingly obvious lying cabal of clueless fools and dupes. I mean it’s just amazing. I wouldn’t mind if people would admit they are ignoring the Constitution and over 200 years of precedent and the founding texts and arguments, but literally, clueless is the real answer.
      The new thing is a half dozen with foreign citizen parent(s), dual citizenship, naturalization, citizenship of foreign nations in their past, on and on the list goes.
      It will be exciting to see just how quickly the run into perdition occurs, so forward thinking, so welcoming, so much filled with equality, my foreigner POTUS to be !
      I am laughing. I’ll be laughing more when it happens.
      Yes, I’m ticked.

      1. It does not matter in law that his father was a foreign resident. His mother’s American citizenship was solid.

  11. “However, the stereotyping of voters (and attacking their racial bona fides) is the worst form of identity politics. ”

    How about if Biden had said: “… you don’t like affirmative action”? Well, this doesn’t attack their racial bona fides, but it’s also not so clear how much Trump is against AA, while there are many Reps, including me, who think all affirmative action policies are clearly racist.

    Note that Trump’s statement about how Dem Jewish voters “do not like Israel too much” is far more like the less objectionable not liking affirmative action. There are also many Jews who actually do not like the current Israeli gov’t, and various policies of Israel. Similarly, there are some blacks who don’t like affirmative action.

    I would think a thoughtful lawyer would see the difference between liking a policy or place, and belonging to a racial identity.

    I also think demonizing some racial group or other group is a worse form of identity politics over mere stereotyping of voters, like the idea that black voters have far more naturally kinky hair, or more melanin. Often stereotypes don’t matter. Demonization is the worst.

    1. If blacks have to vote for Biden’s side as he demands, do whites have to vote for the other side, and why wasn’t he fair and demand that was well ?
      That’s disturbing.

  12. What Biden was trying to say is that one can’t be black if they aren’t still on the plantation. Biden and Hill believe freedom to think removes one from the black community and is therefore anti-black. Blacks can think for themselves and vote for whomever they wish. If a black is conservative he shouldn’t be condemned the way many prominent conservative blacks have been condemned. Political choice isn’t restricted based on race or religion.

  13. “It’s Not Nice To Fool Mother Nature.”

    – Chiffon Margarine, 1971
    _____________________

    $22+ trillion spent on General Secretary Lyndon Johnson’s wholly unconstitutional “War on Poverty” since 1964.

    What kind of “lawyers” passed that bit of illegal communism?

  14. I wonder if the American Founders intended for a continuing national fixation on abiding state dependents. The infinite caterwauling of wholly unassimilable parasites would have been abolished had Lincoln trusted his own intuition. The absurd attempt to accomplish the impossible – mixing oil and water – persists with unconstitutional generational welfare and affirmative action being employed as ineffective, consistently failing, counterfeit emulsifiers; the playing field is gratuitously tilted to favor supplicants.
    ______________________________________________________________________________

    “If all earthly power were given me,” said Lincoln in a speech delivered in Peoria, Illinois, on October 16, 1854, “I should not know what to do, as to the existing institution [of slavery]. My first impulse would be to free all the slaves, and send them to Liberia, to their own native land.” After acknowledging that this plan’s “sudden execution is impossible,” he asked whether freed blacks should be made “politically and socially our equals?” “My own feelings will not admit of this,” he said, “and [even] if mine would, we well know that those of the great mass of white people will not … We can not, then, make them equals.”5

    – Abraham Lincoln

    1. Lincoln could have put all those recently abandoned cruise ships and airliners to good use.

      The era of COVID-19 is immutably an inflection point of global reset.

  15. “Yes, suh! Massa Joe he know how to treat a nigra. Massa Joe don’t beat us like other massas, and he let us have all Sunday morning for church! Massa Joe he like white girls, he don’t visit the girl’s cabins at night, no suh.”

          1. No I didn’t say that, though l like other biological groups they are susceptible to some illnesses peculiar to their gene pool.

            1. Correct. You did not say exactly that, just it’s equivalent. You said “built in disadvantages”. With living creatures “built in” characteristics are genetic.

              I think your subconcious slipped and revealed what you truly believe.

              If you recognize genetic differences in disease susceptibility you likely admit, internally, differences in average ability. You want Asians to win their ‘share’ of Olympic races and blacks to win their “share” of Fields Medals in mathematics. But you know it won’t happen unless you rig the system so you want to rig the system.

              You are a racist by your own metrics!!!

              1. Young, unlike vertical jump, IQ is highly changeable by environmental factors and given the economic and social disadvantages many blacks are still raised under and have been for 400 years, we don’t have clear metrics on it, much as you wish to call the race. Of course, beyond a certain point IQ is not necessarily a marker for high achievement and may come with detrimental by-products. Most of us don’t require that high horsepower to do our jobs very well, and the level required by that standard is not a high bar.

                1. Book– I can see why not having a high IQ is important to you.

                  Also it shows you truly don’t expect much from the genetic pool. “Brains? We don’t need no stinkin’ brains!”

                  However, your assumption that black IQ is lower than white and Asian because of an environment of poverty, etc has been shown to be untrue.

                  Not all blacks are impoverished by a long shot. Yet, upper middle class black students are still lower than lower middle class and poor white students. The Chicago Tribune had a pearl-twisting, angst filled article on just those discrepajcies several years ago. They decided they couldn’t explain it.

                  Your admissions expose you. You are a racist by your own standards.

                2. Book– Interesting that you now include ‘vertical jump’ along with susceptibility to disease among genetically determined characteristics. What about running ability? What about IQ?

                  Once you start on these admissions where can you stop without twisting yourself into knots?

            2. Book– You say blacks “are susceptible to some illnesses peculiar to their gene pool.”

              Would one of those ilnesses be an oft-documented average IQ of 85?

        1. By the book………..I was referring to the satire expressed. But as always, I forgot that Leftists have lost their sense of humor, so I see why you’re confused.

          1. Cindy, we had previous exchanges about blatantly racist statements you made here. If you have reformed, that is good news.

            1. Book– So say you, the blatantly racist poster who declares blacks are born ‘with inherent disadvantages’.

    1. Out West is one those super edgy Trumpers whose humor is highly regarded by fellow Trumpers. But ‘comedy doesn’t travel’, as they say in Hollywood trade papers. Consequently this type of humor sounds downright creepy outside the rightwing bubble.

      1. Peter – comedy does travel. We still find the Greek comedies funny, Brits coms are hysterical. Tati is a god.

          1. Peter – the theory is that the guy that was doing the voice-overs for Jerry Lewis was superb and when he died, his replacement did not have near the same draw.

            1. Paul C……In 1965, on my first and only trip to Paris (France), I noticed there was a Jerry Lewis movie playing at every movie theater that I walked by!

              1. Cindy Bragg – there were three movies available at that time (maybe), The Nutty Professor, The Disorderly Orderly and The Family Jewels. Although, you could have just been walking in circles and gone past the same theatre.

                1. LOL Paul……..my recollection is that they were not all the latest of his films. But, as you so graciously suggest, I could have been walking in circles! 🤣

        1. Mr. Shill most certainly is a man of many disguises…

          l’homme aux multiples noms de déguisement.

  16. FWIW, I wrote this poem a while back here, in the Edgar Lee Masters-Spoon River Anthology style. It is relevant. Sorry about the title, but I could not pass up the pun!

    Here, You Lie
    A Poetic Conversation From A
    A Negro Cemetery
    From, The Coon River Anthology
    by Squeeky Fromm

    Dequarius Washington
    Whatever happened,
    It wasn’t me!
    It was that there statue
    Of Robert E. Lee!

    That there statute
    Made me draw,
    My “Saturday Night”
    On Johnny Law!

    De Shonte Jones
    Yeah, I heard that!
    Let’s keep it real!
    That there statute
    Made me “deal”!

    A Brother wanted
    His crack for free,
    Sooo, he shot me dead!
    Damn General Lee!

    Shaneeka Wilson
    T’was old Marse Robert
    And Rebel Baddies!
    Who made me have
    Six baby daddies!

    Then one of them,
    I took to court.
    Shot me dead,
    Over child support.

    Takonnawonda Jefferson
    It was General Lee
    Upon his horse,
    Who made me take
    Those drugs, of course.

    I overdosed
    At twenty-three.
    All because of
    General Lee.

    Twi-Neshia Jones
    Robert E. Lee
    Made me a ho.
    I used to sell
    My self for blow.

    One down-low dude-
    With HIV.
    Now, I’m laid low,
    By Robert E. Lee.

    Demarianna White
    I died before
    My sixth birthday
    Drive-by bangers
    Blew me away.

    I never learned
    Any history.
    But I guess I’m dead
    ‘Cause of Robert E. Lee.

    Someone, in a Chariot
    Here, you lie. . .
    And here you’ll stay.
    Except for the Child,
    I’ll carry away.

    Here, you lie!
    It’s plain to see.
    Not blaming yourselves,
    But, Robert E. Lee.

    If ever one day
    The Truth you see.
    Then, you can come
    Away with me.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    1. Yeah, Squeaky, Blacks shouldn’t mind statues of Confederate generals in their town squares. Never mind that the Ku Klux Klan paraded with Confederate battle flags. ‘Blacks should see Confederates as guardians of states rights, a virtuous principle championed by our founding fathers’. And if states rights were used to defend Jim Crow, Blacks shouldn’t take that personally.
      They should realize that Voter I D laws and Welfare Drug Tests are for their own own protection. ..Not..!

      1. You Twit and Shill! Black should stop blaming Confederates for them popping out 77.3% of their kids out of wedlock in the year 2020. The Civil war ended in 1865, and slavery shortly thereafter. Blacks did a pretty good job of working themselves up the ladder until 1865 when Democrats decided they needed them back on the plantation, and started paying them to be worthless Being a low class black is a choice.

        Here. Go read this book:

        https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BMHY5R4/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

        You can get it for less than $5 for a kindle.

        Squeeky Fromm
        Girl Reporter

        1. Squeaky, the Irish can look back on their history with conflicted emotions. They can’t blame the British and religious tensions for ‘all’ the trouble they experienced. Nevertheless those factors had significant impact.

          1. Peter – YES, the Irish can blame the English and religious tensions for all of their troubles. And we do.

        2. Sad but true. The democrats have destroyed. They especially seem to love murdering black babies, 53% of all black pregnancies in the USA last time I checked.
          Just think of that.
          The whole structural edifice they have built, and extermination is their greatest cause, the best record they have to show for themselves, and second to that, the ghettos.

      2. I am not sure our cultural decisions should be made solely on black prefences. I prefer Rachmaninoff to rap.

      3. Yeah, Squeaky, Blacks shouldn’t mind statues of Confederate generals in their town squares.

        The statues have been there for generations and nobody minded until some loudmouths began pissing and marking their territory. Removing them is actually a gesture of contempt, and, no normal people don’t react congenially to that.

        This was an amusing bit of mass entertainment just half a generation after Jim Crow laws had been invalidated:

        https://www.google.com/search?q=general+lee+images&client=firefox-b-1-d&sxsrf=ALeKk02GAuCQgUJ5t-HmvUJiJ8LRUrZkqw:1590299016875&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=iFaO_PQpeCGLoM%253A%252CWDL0kb9DaBp6-M%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kTnqcfvMQsHwCbwQCrd65KFBt-HrQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiD6vK_5cvpAhVWkHIEHcqFDscQ9QEwAHoECAoQJA#imgrc=iFaO_PQpeCGLoM:

        It didn’t offend anyone but malicious cranks. You don’t accommodate malicious cranks. You tell them to get stuffed.

        1. Absurd, that’s a ‘No Sale’. If you think Blacks shouldn’t mind those statues, then you’re stone deaf. It shows why Republicans aren’t attracting Blacks.

          1. Seth……….why doesn’t the Toddler Taliban tear down the Washington Monument? The Jefferson Memorial? Remove statues of Stephen F. Austin? Change the name of Austin, Texas? Change the name of Washinton State? All were slave owners.
            The Confederate flag was legitimate for only 5 years. But during the slavery era in all of America, our national flag was flying. Why is it still our flag, if it flew over slavery across the U.S., before the Civil War?
            The delicate little toddlers are so selective in their destruction. But there is a group of black citizens in Dallas who want Civil War statues left alone, because the group is not intimidated by stone likenesses of Robert E. Lee!
            Good for them!!!

            1. Cindy, do you believe Paint Chips is able to utilize critical thinking skills? He never has and never will.

                1. Paint Chips:

                  John Elder
                  John Russel
                  Peter Hill, Shill
                  Will Kane
                  July Johnson
                  Ethan Edwards
                  Nick Barkley
                  Captain Lochart
                  Joe Starett
                  Philip Skene
                  Patriot
                  Deke Thornton
                  Pike Bishop
                  Roy Coffee
                  Cindy, I will stop at 15 with anonymous that he also posts under. Most of these are relatively recent. Behind the paywall are the rest of his aliases, his real name and address. Only Bitcoin accepted.

                  1. Except for Bishop Pike, they were all customers of Slimmons in Beverly Hills, a 15 minute bike ride from Peter’s place in WeHo. Friends with benefits.

                    1. Absurd, Pike Bishop was William Holden’s character in Sam Pechinpah’s “The Wild Bunch”.

                      What’s more, WeHo real estate 15 minutes from Beverly Hills sells at a premium. Even a one-bedroom condo in that area could go for half a million. Nevertheless, I prefer the Hollywood Hills.

                    2. No, he lives in Los Angeles. His brother lives in New Orleans. Apparently, the guy is a complete loner and when he’s not performing he only talks to his brother, his household staff, and tradesmen.

                      The Los Angeles police did a welfare check on him some years back because some acquaintance of his got the idea in his head that Simmons’ housekeeper is holding him prisoner. The police did the welfare check and issued a press release to the effect that everything is fine. His brother also went on the record to say he’d visited LA recently and everything was fine. It is sort of odd that he closed his business rather than selling it, but perhaps he preferred to liquidate than have his person and trademark associated with someone else’s business.

                      I would suspect that he has some late life issues, because his public statements in the last several years have been delivered over the phone rather than on camera. It would have been simple enough to put it to bed by meeting a TV crew in a coffee shop. It’s not unknown for old people to develop agoraphobia. The agoraphobia sufferer in my circle could drive here there and the next place around town, but couldn’t travel out of town or take a two block walk in her own neighborhood.

                    1. Richard Simmons’ exercise studio. He stopped offering his own classes there in 2014 and then closed it in 2016.

            2. Cindy, I’m not advocating the wholesale destruction of historic monuments. Nor am I advocating the minimization of Slave Owning Founding Fathers.

              But one has to ask why the south continues to honor an army whose cause was already lost before the war even started.

              Industrialization in the first half of the 19th Century foreshadowed the end of slavery long before it ended. By 1860 the need for slaves was no longer justifiable.

              What’s more, poor Whites were threatened by any continuation of slavery. Poor Whites could not compete with slave labor. And even ‘after’ the Civil War, poor Whites in the South remained very poor because so many Blacks were poor. All that poverty kept wages low for generations.

              So one has to seriously ask why southern Whites continue viewing the Confederacy with such reverence. The entire Confederate cause was mindless from Day 1.

          2. Most courthouse confederate statues were erected around 1900, many as part of the United Daughters of the Confederacy movement. It was retrograde. post Reconstruction “Lost Cause” symbolism, meant to reinforce and as much as possible reestablish white supremacy and black subjugation. It was political and has lost it’s constituency – most cities, even in the south are now black majority or large black voting block – and they hate it. Time to go.

            Imagine in their place contemporary politicians voted to erect memorials to Nat Turner or the Haitian Revolution?

            Good times.

            1. IBtb………then why isn’t it time for Jefferson and Washington memorials to go?????

              Most blacks in N’Orleans had no idea for whom Lee Circle was named.

              1. That’s coming up. This is about the capacity of latter-day loudmouths to denigrate the character and achievements of people whose shoes they aren’t fit to shine. The faculty version of it is given by Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky.

              2. Jefferson and Washington are widely credited with founding the country and have many redeeming qualities and their monuments were not erected to celebrate the “Lost Cause” of slavery. There was nothing redeeming about the Confederacy and the movement to defend and spread slavery.

                1. In the other half of NYState meaning outside of metropolitan NY there lies a lot of land with interesting sites. One of them is the NY historical site of John Brown. It’s probably closer to DSS than NYC.

                2. Btb……..The Confederate slave owners were such vile humans, according to you….therefore, it must follow that no yankee ever bought or owned or wore COTTON. Correct? Surely the anti-slavery yankees were so repelled by Southerners that they refused any and all products made possible by slave labor!

          3. They don’t mind them until someone sells them the idea it’s a dis.

            Aside from the fact that the sentiment in question is ersatz, some of us are offended by efforts to take the statues down. Liberals fancy that black people being offended should trump white Southerners being offended, because blacks are mascots of gentry liberals and white Southerners are despised. I have news for you, Peter. Gentry liberals are obnoxious tools, and should have no influence over public life. Get stuffed.

              1. That would be great I’d love that.
                Great idea. Hope to see you there for the christenings.

  17. Turley, your zeal to write another Biden article, you missed good red meat for your base Trump supporters. You’re slipping JT, a “QANN reporter” asked the press secretary of the POTUS, if Trump was going to pardon Obama. Now that would be 400 plus posts from your fans. Come on, you have been on a roll lately. I’m not implying that you have not made some really good BS on Trump’s behalf, but you can do better.

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