The New York Times has run an opinion column by Mariame Kaba denouncing efforts by Democratic leaders and the media to try to spin the call for defunding the police as just a reallocation of funds and a new set of priorities and a new structure for policing. Kaba wrote “Yes, we mean literally abolish the police.” That opinion piece follows a warning by Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., that Democrats and others trying to “repackage” the push to “Defund the Police” Notably, while the New York Times apologized for publishing an opinion piece by a ranking U.S. Senator on the use of federal troops to quell rioting, it has now problem with publishing a column calling for the abolishment of police. As discussed earlier, this is a movement that is moving rapidly to the left and repackaging is now considered counter-revolutionary.
Kaba states what people in the streets has been saying (including rallies chanting “no more cops”) even as some in the media has mocked those who claimed that “defund the police” could actually mean defunding the police or that “dismantle the police” could actually means dismantling the police. Indeed, recently Minneapolis City Council President Lisa Bender told CNN’s Alisyn Camerota that people who are concerned about their personal safety after defunding police are simply speaking “from a place of privilege.”
Kaba rejects “liberal reforms” from congressional Democrats and Joe Biden including calls for cracking down on police misconduct or ordering reforms: “Enough. We can’t reform the police. The only way to diminish police violence is to reduce contact between the public and the police.” She states that police have always been a “force of violence against black people” dating back to slavery. At a minimum, Kaba wants police cut “in half” because “fewer police officers equals fewer opportunities for them to brutalize and kill people.” For this reason, Kaba explains “We don’t want to just close police departments. We want to make them obsolete.”
She is not alone in this backlash. Seattle Council Member and Socialist Kshama Sawant just called for people “to fight against the reactionary agenda.”She has attacked the “Democratic establishment.”
“At the same time we have to hold the establishments in various cities accountable. This violence against the peaceful protest movement on Capitol Hill was carried out by Mayor Jenny Durkan. And that’s why it’s no surprise that tens of thousands of people in Seattle are calling for her resignation because they reject police violence, they reject police brutality and we want a society that is based on equality and cooperation
….as far as things going awry, I can tell you the only thing that went awry day after day after day since the first protest on May 30th was the police under orders by the Democratic Party establishment and the Mayor Durkan, it was the police making things going awry.”
The disconnect is widening between what actual activists are saying and what the media is reporting and Democratic leaders are hearing. For example, Atlanta Mayor Keisha Bottoms assured people that the slogan is simply a “simplified message. . . but I think the overarching thing is that people want to see a reallocation of resources into community development and alternatives to just criminalizing.” That sounds a bit different from “no more cops” and demands to “dismantle the police” heard in these rallies:
As discussed earlier, Democratic leaders have been trying to tap into the energy and numbers of the antifascist movement for years despite its anti-free speech and sometimes violent record. It is now struggling to control this careening movement by simply refashioning its demands in a more a new image. The establishment is dealing with another sharp disconnect. While the media has attempted to re-make the movement to defund into a more mainstream image, polls show 64% of the public oppose the call. It is a dangerous pivot to make in the middle mad rush to the extremes. This is why, during the French Revolution, the journalist Jacques Mallet Pan warned, “Like Saturn, the revolution devours its children.”
“Engineering a Race War: Will This Be the American Police State’s Reichstag Fire?”
by John Whitehead, Esq.
https://www.rutherford.org/publications_resources/john_whiteheads_commentary/engineering_a_race_war_will_this_be_the_american_police_states_reichstag_fire
So typically Democrat. HIDE what you really mean until you get elected or re-elected. Rinse and repeat.
We all know exactly what they mean.
This is the thing: they don’t actually want a world that works for everyone; rather, they want everyone else to kowtow and create a world they think would work for *them*. This is the most extreme conclusion to entitlement and biggest millennial temper tantrum we have yet seen, and their little mushroom heads can’t grasp that that is in no way egalitarian, nor is it strength. The issue of race in these scenarios has long since been buried, if it was ever even about that in the first place. Who can say, when everything is ‘racist’?
If the likes of AOC get elected again, we will know WE have failed again. These kids were all brats BEFORE they were indoctrinated, this is not Patty Hearst 2.0.
James, what you see on TV is a small number of committed people. Presently the peaceful ones seem to have popular support, but it is a fallacy to ascribe the hopes and dreams of an entire generation on so few, and especially the marginal ones like JT does in his stupid column.
By the way, AOC won a congressional district that is like 80% democrats and beat an old guy with a very low turnout. She does not represent any wave except maybe one of pretty young people who know how to use social media. Doesn’t mean she isn’t smart – she is – but she has no base and no power except on Instagram and was shut down by Pelosi any number of times in the House.
PS If you’re a Republican, you should be more worried about the new suburban women candidates who won seats in the House for the 1st time in a long time. You’re on the edge of losing your majority among white women, and their revulsion toward Trump and those who suck up to him is real and could be lasting.
Republicans have the largest field of well qualified women running.
Prior to this George Floyd mess they have been running about 12pts better than 2018.
Further that moderate 2018 class of democrats has an albatross that Pelosi has hung arround their necks the past 2 years.
I would also ask you to look arround. The Connor Lamb’s are not the voices of the democratic party. Those voices are the AOC’s the ilbran’s the Preseley’s
Just to be clear – I would have loved to have seen the new democratic moderates of 2018 take control of the congress and their party. They tried, They failed – badly.
“and especially the marginal ones like JT does in his stupid column.”
Every single day you come to read his “stupid columns” and post like mad. You despise Turley.
I thought is was violent to demand ID of people ?
I thought it was an act of violence to build a wall and defend it with guns ?
I know it is violence to take the property of others by force.
I know it is violence to extort money from people for excercising their freedom
These people are committed much like the maffia is committed.
When fringe libertarains want to create an autonomous libertopia, They buy land or create new territory in the ocean. They do not steal it.
And even then – governments hate competion and send armed men to take it away.
If this is committed and peaceful – we are in deep trouble.
Armed theft is not committed and peaceful.
Non-violent is not try to stop me from stealing and I will burn, loot riot and shoot people.
Words have meaning.
“The City that Really Did Abolish the Police”
“And rebuilt the department from the ground up. The strange, hopeful, politically complicated story of Camden, N.J.”
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/06/12/camden-policing-reforms-313750
Thanks for posting anonymous
This is neither “literally abolish”, nor “defund”.
I find in interesting that the reforms are described as progressive – but they are what libertarians have advocated for decades.
The progressives are those at the moment chanting for anarchy.
I would further note this was accomplished by a strong republican government in a democratic state.
Absolutely we should learn from Camden – and other success stories.
We should also learn from the failures – Holder/Obama sought consent decrees to leverage changes out of police departments accross the country.
The results are damning. Violence and crime rose significantly in consent decree cities.
Getting policing right is hard.
I would note that What Camden did is at odds with what the left, the right and police are all selling.
They did NOT impliment a better trained more professional better paid police force.
They went with more police, less trained, less professional, less well paid and more deeply integrated into the communities they serve.
The left has a huge problem here.
Much of the country – including particularly that critical demographic of suburban women are watching.
They are absolutely appalled at Floyd’s murder. they are also terrified of the lawlessness of urban communities coming to their own. Calls to disband the police are not just nonstarters they are terrifying. Reform the police in minority communities ? Fine, but for the most part they want the police on their streets exactly as they are.
The other demographic that the left must not lose is the people in these communities.
The women who want the high crime in their neighborhoods ended. But do not want their sons drug off in handcuffs or shot accomplishing that.
They do not want to abolish the police, they want an end to crime without filling the jails with their children.
“They do not want to abolish the police, they want an end to crime without filling the jails with their children.”
And while you are at it make bricks without straw and find me an acre of land between the saltwater and the sea strands.
I am not at anything.
I was stating what minorities want.
It is a mistake for those on the left to beleive that minorities oppose the police.
They do not. Wanting to change – possibly even ways that are impractical is not the same as abolish.
John– When I lived in a ghetto the blacks were constantly calling the police on each other. It surprised me. It also surprised me when I couldn”t get a pizza delivered from a restaurant a quarter mile away. I even tried saying, “But we are white. We won’t hurt you.” Didn’t work. They were justifiably afraid to come into the neighborhood. The liberals don’t know what it is really like because they are afraid to go there too.
In that small area of Seattle, the police were abolished. What did our leftist friends do once they abolished the police in that small area. They have untrained men walking around the streets with automatic weapons that have a political agenda. That is more like a despotic takeover. What did this group hate about police? One thing was stop and frisk. What does this group do at its border where they have built walls. They stop and frisk.
Restructuring police departments is not the same as getting rid of the police.
frank serpico
@SerpicoDet:
“A renowned “good cop” says police abuse and corruption are like the coronavirus, infecting departments throughout the world.”
“Serpico on Police Racism: ‘We Have This Virus Among Us’”
“A renowned “good cop” says police abuse and corruption are like the coronavirus, infecting departments throughout the world.”
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/06/11/george-floyd-protests-serpico-police-racism-good-cop/
You should read his story. At the same time Serpico was NYPD in the 60’s and 70’s.
Everything is radically different today. Drugs were small but growning problems. Organized crime was the big problem and the police were part of it.
I know his story very well.
Ask Adrian Schoolcraft how ‘radically different’ things are today. You really need to get out more.
Nothing Schoolcrafted reported resembles Serpico.
Serpico provided evidence that NYPD from top to bottom was in bed with organized crime.
Schoolcraft found that an agency of govenrment was corrupted by its own power.
His findings are repeatable in any government agency anywhere in the world ever. They are a fundimental problem with government.
What Serpico found was NOT. External corruption is even more serious and more rare.
John Say is misinformed. And then he posts comments that reflect his lack of understanding.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/10/the-police-are-still-out-of-control-112160_Page4.html
“Only a few years ago, a cop who was in the same 81st Precinct I started in, Adrian Schoolcraft, was actually taken to a psych ward and handcuffed to a gurney for six days after he tried to complain about corruption – they wanted him to keep to a quota of summonses, and he wasn’t complying. No one would have believed him except he hid a tape recorder in his room, and recorded them making their demands. Now he’s like me, an outcast.” -Frank Serpico
The sum total of all that experience can be encapsulated in a few simple rules for the future:
1. Strengthen the selection process and psychological screening process for police recruits. Police departments are simply a microcosm of the greater society. If your screening standards encourage corrupt and forceful tendencies, you will end up with a larger concentration of these types of individuals;
2. Provide ongoing, examples-based training and simulations. Not only telling but showing police officers how they are expected to behave and react is critical;
3. Require community involvement from police officers so they know the districts and the individuals they are policing. This will encourage empathy and understanding;
4. Enforce the laws against everyone, including police officers. When police officers do wrong, use those individuals as examples of what not to do – so that others know that this behavior will not be tolerated. And tell the police unions and detective endowment associations they need to keep their noses out of the justice system;
5. Support the good guys. Honest cops who tell the truth and behave in exemplary fashion should be honored, promoted and held up as strong positive examples of what it means to be a cop;
6. Last but not least, police cannot police themselves. Develop permanent, independent boards to review incidents of police corruption and brutality—and then fund them well and support them publicly. Only this can change a culture that has existed since the beginnings of the modern police department.
-Frank Serpico
“The Police Are Still Out of Control”
“I should know.”
By FRANK SERPICO
October 23, 2014
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/10/the-police-are-still-out-of-control-112160_Page4.html
Not racism.
You will have no problem getting my support and that of many others for alot of different police reforms.
But if you posit the wrong problem, you will come up with the world solutions.
What SchoolCraft uncovered is a problem.
It is a completely different problem from what Serpico uncovered.
Neither of them are providing evidence of racism.
No one is arguing that the police are perfect.
I fully agree with Serpico’s recomendations.
I would further note that the corruption SchoolCraft exposes was administrative corruoption from the top down – not bottom up.
It was preasure from mayors, cheifs captains to “cook the books”
It is not unique to police, it is commonplace throughout government.
It is wrong, it is not racism.
“John Say is misinformed. And then he posts comments that reflect his lack of understanding.”
non-sequitur.
If I have made an error – show it.
If you accuse me of error without making a credible case that reflects badly on your integrity.
Shades of the 60s when the Lefties all sang “Kumbaya” while our neighborhoods burned.
First, I congratulate the Minneapolis City Council on their unanimous vote to defund their police department. It opens up for the Minneapolis law enforcement officers a great opportunity to go where they are actually supported and appreciated. Minneapolis, it was great knowing you. I know you’re busy; I can hear the 3rd world calling for you.
Second, this experiment has already been tried. It was called Baltimore; and when they did it violent crime skyrocketed. Now, Baltimore is no NYC so I’m sure NYC will easily be able to put the violence that occurred in Baltimore to shame. Come-on, NYC! We’re rooting for you! Well, not you, actually, but the criminals about to inherit the city. It’s all about ratings and peace, love and harmony just don’t get ratings.
Who is spinning what to whom? Or who Flung foo?
JT writes:
“As discussed earlier, Democratic leaders have been trying to tap into the energy and numbers of the ANTIFASCIST movement for years despite its anti-free speech and sometimes violent record.””
What a crock of s..t. Yeah, because there must be a couple of thousand of them in each state and we know they love to vote.
Look Dude, you were the one pushing Bernie for the last year. He lost – BIG – AGAIN. Why don;t you cut the s..t and just go to the next Trump rally wherever they have it.
Nice try JT, but mainstream Democrats like me and Democratic leaders don’t support this. Why are you pushing it?
And yet, there are no democrat leaders actively calling this foolishness what it is. Silence is consent.
“mainstream Democrats like me and Democratic leaders don’t support this.”
That’s not what the country sees. Instead we see you bending the knee and praising the radicals. They are in charge of your party now whether you like it or not.
Ivan, that’s what propagandists like JT want the country to see. It’s demonstrably false.
By the way, taking a knee is not synonymous with wanting abolish the police as untold numbers of police around the country have done so in solidarity with peaceful protesters who share their disapproval of tactics like those used against Floyd.
Biden won, not Bernie, and it wasn’t close. Even Bernie probably does not favor abolishing cops, but if he does. Better luck next time.
“By the way, taking a knee is not synonymous with wanting abolish the police…”
Taking a knee symbolizes submission.
I have no problem with “taking a knee” per say.
But it is a really dangerous form of symbolism.
There is infinite difference between people taking a knee on their own and kowtowing to do so. There is even a huge difference between taking a knee in protest and doing so voluntarily out of guilt.
I would further note that we had this fight over sports a few years ago.
We likely will see it coming again. We are headed for a culture clash that is going to play out in the free market – not government.
Players and owners and the NFL can do as they please.
As can fans. And sports fans – particularly football are disproportionately patriotic.
Even a 5% drop in fans will negatively impact the bottom line of sports.
Regardless, it would be very wise for BLM to find a different protest symbol.
Taking a knee is far too charged.
It would also be wise for them to find a different target than the national anthem.
John Say,
“Taking a knee is far too charged.
It would also be wise for them to find a different target than the national anthem.”
That’s the whole point. You don’t get to tell others how they wish to protest because it offends your sensibilities. Taking a knee was suggested to Colin by a veteran who understood it’s importance. I see far too many people telling them how they should protest as if finding a more comfortable manner of protesting that will not offend is preferable. The whole entire point of protesting during the national anthem is important because it involves the notion of all being equal and the “land of the free”. They don’t feel free when they have to fear being killed by police. That is NOT freedom and the notion that telling others how they should protest is offensive. NOBODY told those folks demanding an end to the lock downs for Covid-19 how they should be protesting, right? You wouldn’t stand for anyone telling you that you should find a less offensive way to protest your lack of access to a haircut. By yelling and screaming at legislators in state capitols vs. a lone football player taking a knee in silence during a national anthem you find taking a knee is more offensive? Taking a knee is not submissive or controversial. It’s a protest. A peaceful one that uses the most visible and contrasting optic. It’s meant to offend and point out that there IS a problem that needs to be addressed. Taking a knee is far more preferable than looting and ransacking of neighborhoods. You say find a better way than that? Guess what taking a knee seems better doesn’t it?
“That’s the whole point. You don’t get to tell others how they wish to protest because it offends your sensibilities. ”
That depends on what your objective is. The NFL players pissed off fans. The people who ultimately pay their paychecks. Who responded by “defunding the NFL”
If that is your idea of a successfull protest – then rinse, repeat.
Burning flags as an example was NEVER intended to garner sympathy or support for a cause. it was an excercise of a right, and done under circumstances in which only government could impose consequences and only by violating rights.
“I see far too many people telling them how they should protest as if finding a more comfortable manner of protesting that will not offend is preferable.”
You bet. If your goal is to gain my support – do not piss on me.
I personally do not care about kneeling for the national anthem.
Go ahead.
But Fans predictably did.
The same is true regarding these floyd protests – Those marching on city hall – have my support. Those burning and looting don’t.
I am impressed that the Floyd protests did NOT devolve into the Rodney King riots.
At the same time, they did not come close to the lockdown protestors of a few weeks earlier.
You are free to protest however you want – but your choices have consequences.
Absolutely the more offensive the protest the more powerful the message.
And somethings the greater the backlash.
“they don’t feel free when they have to fear being killed by police.”
If you are black and your fear is being killed by the police – you are out of touch with reality. You are many times more likely to die from crime, other blacks. drug overdoses, diabetes.
“the notion that telling others how they should protest is offensive.”
Nope. If you want my sympathy, then I get to decide what I like”
“NOBODY told those folks demanding an end to the lock downs for Covid-19 how they should be protesting, right?”
Fundimental morality barred them from violence, looting arson.
They were actually peaceful.
Many carried guns – that shocked people like you – yet they did so peacefully.
An actual message.
“You wouldn’t stand for anyone telling you that you should find a less offensive way to protest your lack of access to a haircut.”
And yet they were told not how to protest, but not to protest by those like you.
“By yelling and screaming at legislators in state capitols”
Petitioning government.
“a lone football player taking a knee in silence during a national anthem”
Pissing off your ultimate employer.
“you find taking a knee is more offensive?”
Me ? Depends on the circumstances. i do not care at all about Colin.
But the people who pay him – his fans. They do.
“Taking a knee is not submissive or controversial.”
Because you say so ? That is of course why most major religions bar kneeling except before god.
“It’s meant to offend”
That’s right, and you should be careful WHO you offend.
NFL players offended “their bosses” the fans.
“and point out that there IS a problem that needs to be addressed.”
A protest does not lend automatic legitimacy to its claims.
It draws attention.
“Taking a knee is far more preferable than looting and ransacking of neighborhoods.”
Yes, making others take a knee is cringeworthy.
Regardless, let me piss over you or I will burn your house down is not a really good argument.
John day,
“ That depends on what your objective is. The NFL players pissed off fans. The people who ultimately pay their paychecks. Who responded by “defunding the NFL”
It was one player who pissed off fans. And they were pissed off because they were egged on by a president who was intent on muddying the message Colin was trying to portray. NFL owners actually took no position on the issue and a few supported it. Taking a knee was just as shocking to fans sensibilities as those carrying guns in statehouses. It’s the intended effect. The difference is taking a knee was associated with others telling those taking a knee to find another way to protest. It was a dismissive attitude that emphasized the act instead of the reason why. Now we find ourselves in the midst of the very same problem Colin Kaepernick was pointing out. Taking a knee again during the national anthem shouldn’t be criticized in the same patronizing manner it was before.
Svelaz, you are happy to take a knee or bow to a sovereign because you have the mentality of a slave.
“It was one player who pissed off fans. And they were pissed off because they were egged on by a president who was intent on muddying the message Colin was trying to portray. NFL owners actually took no position on the issue and a few supported it. Taking a knee was just as shocking to fans sensibilities as those carrying guns in statehouses. It’s the intended effect. The difference is taking a knee was associated with others telling those taking a knee to find another way to protest. It was a dismissive attitude that emphasized the act instead of the reason why. Now we find ourselves in the midst of the very same problem Colin Kaepernick was pointing out. Taking a knee again during the national anthem shouldn’t be criticized in the same patronizing manner it was before.”
Whether true or not – the above is irrelevant.
Fan’s chose not to attend or watch games in which players were likely to kneel in sufficient numbers that the Owners revenue and due to the way contracts are today even the players pay were significantly negatively impacted.
You seem to wish to get lost in the details.
I do not care about the details.
I fully support your right to protest.
I also support the right of your employer to fire your ass.
And customers to quit using the store where you work.
It is ALL protest.
When you choose to protest, you should think about how you structure than proest and what the consequences might be,
A protest is likely to be more effective if it is more offensive.
But the effect MIGHT be negative – not just in costing you your job.
When fans chose not to go to or watch games, they were strongly REJECTING the very core of your protest. They were saying loud and clear that the issue you thought was important was either wrong, or not as important to them as standing for the national anthem.
I do not care what the issue was. Everyone got to “voice” their protest, and there was an outcome.
If you wish to repeat this next fall – go ahead.
Yes carrying guns in statehouses shocked people.
And if enough people are offended enough – you can change the constitution
Regardless those protestors chose and act and a venue, that did not face measure by the market.
While football players chose an act and a venue that faced a market counter protest.
You want to fixate on this.
I have no problem with what players did.
I also have no problem with what fans did.
I actually beleive that a protest that has potential real costs has more meaning.
But you must be prepared to pay those costs.
Biden’s record is more pro cop than Trump’s by a large shot.
He has already made clear he does not support “defund the police”
Though trying to figure out where he really stands on anything is a fools errand.
Historically he has actually been a pretty moderate democrat.
But his campaign and primary have been nearly as far left as Warren.
And his word salad on any issue is all over the place.
One thing we can know. If Biden is elected either he is going to break more campaign promises than any president ever, or we will have Bernie lite in the White house.
I suspect and hope for the former.
Biden is not the first candidate to change focus from the primary to the general.
He’s a centrist and that’s how he’ll govern.
The Bernie Bros and “Antifa” – who JT falsely pretends to have the Democratic Party’s ear – have no juice. The young – the center of Bernie’s strength – don’t vote and he’s lost resoundlingly twice.now. NO email excuses this time.
“Biden is not the first candidate to change focus from the primary to the general.”
He is not, but he has had plenty of time to tack towards the center.
He is moving mighty slow.
“He’s a centrist”
No he is a center left democrat, not the same thing as a centrist.
Though frankly I am not sure he is that either. He is a political oportunist.
“and that’s how he’ll govern.”
As a political opportunist – that I would agree with.
That is if he governs at all.
There is substantial doubt he will set policy if elected.
“The Bernie Bros and “Antifa” – who JT falsely pretends to have the Democratic Party’s ear – have no juice.”
Which is why democrats keep kneeling to them.
Which is why the moderate dems elected in 2018 have zero power or voice and the extremists own the media.
Which is why the media must ignore every biden gaffe and pretend every trump statement is racist.
“The young – the center of Bernie’s strength – don’t vote and he’s lost resoundlingly twice.now. NO email excuses this time.”
And they will not vote in november either.
You are not mainstream Democrat if compared to Democrats of just a few decades ago. You may not like some of the Democrat stupp being pushed today, but you have TDS so if Trup has a good idea you take the side of the craziest left we have ever seen. That makes you a supporter of the crazies.
Allow me to address one of the most serious aspects of replacing police with social workers and community organizers: It is just NOT practical, and could be dangerous, to chase a perp while wearing Birkenstocks.
Or the fact that if they are bigger than you, they’ll just knock you out before they take off. I love this idea that people actively engaged in criminal activities are just going to stop and cry on a shoulder. Given what we are seeing right in front of our faces, the cognitive dissonance is breathtaking. Compassion certainly has its place, but a person has to be apprehended and isolated first.
That is a good point. After the first few stabbings, beatings, and killings social workers will be asking for police escorts to deal with the mentally disturbed. But, this is an old song the Democrats are singing. From 1961 to be precise.
That was not the song I posted. It should have been Gee Officer Krupke from West Side Story. Let me try again.
ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7TT4jnnWys
Cindy– Besides, they will cry when they get blood on their tie-dyed Black Lives Matter shirts.
In Myrtle Beach a gang of feral blacks attacked and beat a white couple out for a walk. As always when blacks attack whites officially “racism was not a factor”. Funny there isn’t a national protest about this. Wonder why?
Young…….animals!!
I hope the love, tolerance and diversity crowd are able to experience up close and personally the joys which are certain to result from this policy.
What could possibly go wrong after the abolition of fascist police? We are another step away from the glorious utopia leftists have been promising for a long time. I’m overjoyed!
Sarcasm is about all that remains when discussing the left.
JT: “As discussed earlier, Democratic leaders have been trying to tap into the energy and numbers of the ANTIFASCIST movement for years despite its anti-free speech and sometimes violent record.”
Turley knows that the “antifascists” are actually fascists, but to say it directly would lead to his being fired.
the fix is in……………
Irish Setter dog lives matter!
This is a biased reading of what she says along with the usual Turley practice of dropping “Antifa” to scare people. You do not have to agree with everything she says, but you should still take her point on slashing police budget seriously. Policing as practiced in this country does not work. Just compare with other countries in simar positions to get an idea.
Turley would be believable if he called anything on policing as it is done today. He has not and instead – like his fox news brethren – keeps pointing to isolated sound bites that he can highlight along with the usual media -blaming. For always media-attention-seeking Turkey, this is both intellectually dishonest and lazy.
Turley’s a lifelong Democrat. The difference between him and the party faithful is that he has principles. I know it hurts to see one of your own call you out. That’s why the shills here always try to associate him with the Republicans.
Ivan, your boy isn’t a Democrat. This board is a non-stop press release of distractions from Trump outrages and refocus on inconsequential BS from 4th tier leftists. If you don’t get, you’re not safe in traffic.
I have noted Turley moving from the left to a more traditionally liberal position.
Nor is Turley alone.
People like David Rubin, Johnathan Haidt, Derschowitz, Turley, even JK Rowling, are not for the most part moving right.
They are standing still as the left gets more and more extreme and runs off without them,
You have defended “our children” – yet what I see at the moment is OUR failure to eductate them and OUR inclucating them with idiotic ideas and values that doe not work.
The George Floyd murder shocked the country.
It created the oportunity for protests, and the possibility of meaningful change.
But exactly like the protestors in Tienanmen square a few decades ago, having gotten our attention, they had no idea what to ask for.
Philosophy matter, ideas matter.
Like those at Tienanmen, BLM knows what it is angry about.
Like those at Tienanmen, we have an entire generation that is clueless as to how to improve anything.
We are watching those at CHAZ re-inventing totalitarianism.
I think Trump is politically stupid to threaten to move in.
Leave them alone. See if they can figure out how to govern themselves.
It has not taken long to turn into Lord of the Flies.
We have a generation that can not effect change – because they have no understanding of the millennia that have been spent developing and testing ideas. Rejecting those that did not work and extending those that did.
CHAZ is just the tip of the spear. The entire left half of the country has to varying and all to large a degree embraced ideas that we know ahead of time will fail.
WE, not they are responsible for that. WE failed to educate them. WE instilled in them idiotic values. WE failed to expose them to the ideas that have taken centuries to develop – imperfect – yes, but proven to work.
And they are not only unfamiliar with them, but have been taught to knee jerk shut their minds and retreat to safe spaces at even their mention.
The best we can hope for is that they will fail small, lest they get the chance to fail big.
Yeah, John, because previous generations faced and mastered crises seamlessly and without skipping a beat. Say what?
CHAZ is happening in 1 city and with participants numbering in the hundreds. That you’ve chosen this event – in this post and in previous ones – as emblematic of a generation is a fallacy of too obvious proportions. Why don’t you rework that and then come back?
No we did not do perfectly in the past,
But anything we have done that was successful was done with far better understanding of the past – what has worked and what did not.
CHAZ is one city and there is no doubt it is on the fringe.
But the cluelessness of the CHAZites, is reflective of the young across the country.
Look at the ideas that are actually getting support and might happen.
These are not the ideas of the left – though some on the left are trying to own them.
These are the ideas of libertarains for decades.
Someone held up Camden as an example – and aparently a good one.
Nothing that happening in Camden was “progressive”. Much of it was highly conservative.
Break the unions, Pay police less. hire more of them, do not train them as well, through them in the ocean without a life vest and tell them not to drown.
The closest thing to a “progresive” idea is “community policing” and that has been arround for decades and is again more libertarain that progressive.
I can find Cato studies on it every year for the last 20, and some reports even older.
I keep telling you that we have massive problems in education.
The young are ignorant of history and lob ill thought through ideas without any consideration for the possibility they did not just discover whatever it is, and that they have been studied and tried many times before they were born.
We know alot about what works – and more about what does not.
Young adults have been taught radical ideas, but not taught to evaluate them either logically or via history and data.
The entire country melted down over Charlottesville a few years ago.
We were told that the alt-right is coming for us all.
Where are they ?
Regardless, I do not think CHAZ is the peak of the bell curve on the left.
I am hoping it is allowed to fail catastrophically, so we can learn from it.
There are several problems CHAZ exemplifies.
It is likely the efforts of a significant portion of the best and the brightest of the young left today.
It is reflective of the inability to engage in critical thinking of young adults today – OUR FAULT. They have neither the logical skills nor the historical knowlege, and worse they have not only been sheilded from that information, but they have been told it does not matter.
Finally the distance between the CHAZites and large portions of the left is not all that large.
The Seattle mayor is pretending this will end well.
The democratic party is between a rock and a hard place – it can neither reject them nor own them.
The inability of democrats, the media, to speak out strongly on the rioting and the violence and the arson, and the idiocy of CHAZ is a reflection of how small the gap between CHAZ and the current core of the democratic party its.
That, in a nutshell, is what we are witnessing.
Yes, almost literally a nutshell. Nowhere else in the country, but you and JT want to focus there. I wonder why?
Regardless of what direction the country might head.
I am with Turley, and Rubin and Haidt, and Derschowitz
Or more accurately they are now with me.
I would like to beleive the arc of the universe bends towards truth.
But whether it does or not, I stand with truth.
You better check with Turley because he thinks he is a Democrat.
“Ivan, your boy isn’t a Democrat.”
There you go again telling straight up lies anyone can check. This makes all your comments worthless.
OK Ivan, who’s his candidate? You know he only carried Bernie water to try and sabotage the party. Who is he for? How do you know this?
Your spin on spin is amazing
Perhaps if the detritus from LBJ’s “Great Society” were not as thuggish as they are now, we wouldn’t need as much policing to keep civilization in good health. Before canning the police, Ms. Kaba should take a close look at the criminal elements that require policing and tend to that insidious cultural failure caused by the welfare generations.
Compared to other countries ? Which ones ?
If you know of a different means of acheiving law an order that has been effective in another large and diverse society – please tell us ?
While there is much that could be improved about US policing
and many of the specific proposals being offered – suggestions libertarians have been recomending for decades are all steps in the right direction
The fact is US policing is neither systemically racist, nor systemically problematic in anyway.
It will always need improvement – everything that humans do will always need improvement.
Make no mistake, no government of any form exists without “men with guns”.
The CHAZites determined that nearly instantly.
“The fact is US policing is neither systemically racist, nor systemically problematic in anyway.”
And that’s a ‘fact’ says John Say, who must be living in a bubble.
Go ahead anonymous and prove the US policing is systemically racist.
There is scattered racism everywhere but that is not what is under discussion.
There is massive amounts of data on this if you want to bather to look.
In the entirety of law enforcement statistics there is only a single area where there is a racial signal that does not correlate nearly exactly to reporting.
And that is sentencing. Blacks get higher sentences for the same crimes.
That would be systemic racism in the judiciary, not the police.
Though even there there are outside factors – the drug laws passed in the 80’s with the full throated support of minority legislators punish the drugs sold in minority communities more than those elsewhere.
There are numerous other factors regarding sentencing and adjusting for them the signal of systemic racism is much smaller, but still present.
But police arrest blacks in the same proportion as whites with respect to police reports.
But there are more calls to 911 etc. identifying black perpatraors.
Overall black communities report crime twice as much as white communities, because they have about twice as much crime.
In 2019 9 unarmed black’s were killed by police. That is 1/18th the number of police killed. Of those 4 resulted in prosecution of the officer, and in several though unarmed the arreste was violently attacking the cop.
I think that is a lot of reform of the police that is necescary.
But we should not seek to fix problems that do not exist.
Fixating on alleged racism will make crime rise.
We want crime to go down.
The odds of an unarmed black person being killed by a cop are less than their odds of being stuck by lightning.
Wapo tracks the data. You can go look at it.
Unless you beleive that blacks are racist against themselves – blacks report twice as many crimes as whites. Crime is higher in minority communities.
Everyone knows it.
The failure of police is not aresting too many blacks, it is not reducing crime in minority neighborhoods.
I would further note that to a very large extent this is a matter of class rather than race as the crime rate for working class whites is about the same as working class blacks.
Anonymous (which ever one this is)– the majority of the police officers in New York City and in Washington D.C. are black. The command structure of the Baltimore Police Dept. is all black and has been for a long time. Is US policing in these cities “systemically racists”? If so, why havn’t the blacks done anything about it. Perhaps because it’s not?
I want many of the reforms that have been proposed implimented.
But If i am force to choose between policing as it is today or no police, or even 75% of currently policing – I am going to pick ZERO reform.
By most every statistical measure policing and crime in the US have been improving for decades.
We have an excellent, though not perfect police.
Efforts to improve it that drive out the police or result in significant increases in crime and violence are not worthwhile.
All beneficial improvements are fundimentally changes at the margins.
Any effort to dramatically alter policing will fail dangerously.
“But If i am force to choose between policing as it is today or no police, or even 75% of currently policing – I am going to pick ZERO reform.
By most every statistical measure policing and crime in the US have been improving for decades.
We have an excellent, though not perfect police.” -John Say
Wow. Who is this guy?
Those are clear facts anonymous and not even statistically close.
“The fact is US policing is neither systemically racist, nor systemically problematic in anyway.” -John Say
Not a “fact.”
So you are saying the data that Wapo and everyone else collecting data on policing is wrong ?
Tony Timpa died much as George Floyd did, except Timpa was not even accused of a crime. He called the police on himself as he was schizophrenic and off his medication.
There is one other difference – Timpa was white.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tony-timpa-disturbing-video-shows-dallas-officers-joking-as-they-restrain-man-who-died/
I agree with you John, but I’ll note the cops in the Timpa incident were not hostile to him. The tone was entirely different.
Please watch the video – the tone was different, they were MORE hostile to Timpa.
They laughed at him, made jokes about him.
The Floyd cops just ignored him.
I said “Wow, Who is this guy?” Nothing in that comment about “facts.”
Then you are not familiar with facts or the real world.
I do not expect you are familiar with my history – here or over decades.
You are not obligated to. But I am no freind of the police.
Our police are too militarized,
Too confrontational,
I can list myriads of problems that have real data to back them.
Many of these are “systemic” problems.
What they are not is systemically racist.
There is no data to the contrary that is not a result of shallow, poor and misrepresentative analysis. This is not even a close call.
I suspect Ofc. Chauvin is not overyly racist. Just a Thug with a badge.
Statistical analysis is complex.
It is often possible to find whatever you want.
There is zero doubt that blacks are arrested disproportionately to their population.
Asians are arrested half as much as whites.
But it is also true that the crime rates in different racial communities are different and correspond directly to just about every other statistic.
Nor is this crimes based on the police’s assessment, but as reported by the communities themselves.
There is some strong evidence that MUCH of the higher crime rate of minorities is really a function of class not race. Working class whites and working class blacks have very similar crime rates.
Regardless, to the extent that statistics can help us identify the strengths and weaknesses of our system we should rely on them.
Part of their purpose is to keep us from chasing false naratives.
If we want to improve policing we should focus our efforts on where the problems lie.
Defunding the police is NOT the answer.
MANY more specific proposals, though smaller are much more tlikely to produce results.
There have been almost a dozen different smaller proposals – ending choke holds, or qualified immunity. I can not think of one of those i oppose.
I can not think of one I have not supported for decades.
Someone linked to the article on Camden. Absolutely we should look at what worked there and what did not.
If “abolish the police” means closing city police departments and creating new ones in some fashion – lets look at that. But the goal is going to be to get MORE oifficers in the communities where crime occurs, not less.
In fact I have advocated for an approach much like Camden.
MORE, less well trained, less well paid, police with less power and authority (and less well armed). integrated as part of the community.
Return policing to be a blue collar – not white collar job.
More police who live in their communities.
Whether you are black or white, you should want a police officer that knows and lives in the community they police.
But no one sane is talking about a police free society.
And no one sane is talking about less police in minority neighborhoods.
As a rule of thumb I am in favor of cutting govenrment spending always and everywhere.
I will not oppose well thought out cuts to police spending.
But the police ARE one of the most core legitimate functions of government.
Policing is NOT outside the social contract, not outside the scope of government.
Ultimately I beleive that like all government we can police more cheaply.
But we start with more effectively.
And policing is NOT a function govenrment is performing that should be done privately.
Vigilantism is closer to anarchy and limited govenrment.
Someone actually familiar with fact and reality.
BTW I was alive in the 60’s and 70’s.
Crime was much worse.
Racism was much worse.
Police racism was much worse.
Aside from the fact that statistics – from sources like WaPo that is using newspaper reports accross the country to supliment the govenrment data
I have also seen the changes in the world with my own eyes.
Because John Say says so.
lol.
Really ?
https://www.statista.com/graphic/1/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990.jpg
+1
PS The +1 was for John Say’s post
Oh, that was clear, btb.
Now, I don’t want to “abolish the police” but we are in a world of trouble and we better start fixing this mess. And until it’s fixed, let the comfortable be afflicted, as it’s said. The world of “the comfortable” needs some serious rockin’.
OK, but for better or worse, I don;t think we are in a world of trouble. Yes, we need to fix things, but this is not existential except for some unfortunate individuals who deserve better from us. I read a comment – haven’t verified it – that events like Floyd experienced happened 9 times across America last year. That’s too much and there are other lesser indignities blacks experience that they shouldn’t have too. A continued reduction in crime – however it is accomplished – would help them and everyone more.
I beleive there is a serious problem in the relationship of our police to the communities they serve.
Even if they are very effective at reducing crime, so long as they are outsiders flying in in their cruisers, heavily armed and not really part of the community, there will be hostility between them and the community.
This is not about race.
It is about the way the police see themselves, and the community they serve, and the way those in the community see the police.
The demand – both of democrats, and republicans and even the police for more “professionalism” is actually wrong. The police are not doctors, doing their jib antiseptically and dispassionately even if perfectly is NOT what we need.
They have to be part of the communities they serve.
False,
I honestly hope we get real reform – LOTS of it.
There are atleast a dozen small reforms and a few slightly larger that I hope will happen.
But I will be willing to bet that very few and only the most innocuous actually occur.
I would further state that large parts of the “outrage” are either manufactured or circumstantial.
But for the Covid19 lockdowns these protests on this scale just plain would not have happened.
Blacks are better off and less discriminated against in this country than anytime in history.
But Covid19 just resulted in massive layoffs and those ALWAYS disproportionately affect lower skilled labor. further they KNOW they will get their jobs back LAST if at all.
That is not racism. It is just the way an economy MUST work.
This also occured after decades of left wing nuts calling everyone to the right of Joe Biden a racist white supremecist,
And after 4 years of the left and the media foaming and frothing over Trump.
This is all artificial outrage. It is not sustainable.
The left in this country is divorced from reality.
The best cure is to let them have their way, and learn how badly that works out.
Unfortunately, as they inflict Venezeula on themselves – they do so to the rest of us too.
If by left John means antifa, yeah, that’s right. He offers no proof for anyone else.
We agree that the Covid shutdown is prolonging the protests, though John fails to mention that they may be majority white.
“The left” – pew has done some pretty good data on the ideological structure of the country over time. From Obama’s election to the present the democratic center has hollowed out – almost disappeared, fewer and fewer democrats are slightly left of center – where the democratic majority used to be. The distribution of democrats politically looks more like a triangle – with its apex pretty far from the center.
Reoublicans as a whole have shifted right – slightly, but they are still distributed on something closer to a bell curve and the center is closer to the center as a whole.
I do not care what color the protestors are.
Frankly the whiter they are the worse. White Democrats are the farthest left and the most extreme for the most part
“let the comfortable be afflicted”
Rather dumb comment. When things get rocking it is the most vulnerable that suffer. Who do you think suffers when all the stores in a low income neighborhood get destroyed and looted? The most vulnerable. Who do you think suffers the most from the destruction of Madison Avenue? The middle class who lose their jobs. Who do you think suffers the most when the economy falters? The most vulnerable.
You have the get even, get the rich attitude. That is dumb.
We can agree on some things.
Vlad– first, with all due respect, any fool who calls for abolishing the police (“we mean literally abolish the police”) does not deserve to be listened to. Second, one thing I’ve noticed about those of you who disagree with Professor Turley is that you jump to nasty, ad hominem attacks and call him names: “intellectually dishonest and lazy.” There can be no more damning thing to say about a law professor. It may make you feel better or if you are paid for this nonsense it may satisfy your masters, but if I had said such things my Grandmother, God rest her soul, would have washed my mouth out with soap. You should try it.
Honest, the number of times JT says BS, like
“As discussed earlier, Democratic leaders have been trying to tap into the energy and numbers of the ANTIFASCIST movement for years despite its anti-free speech and sometimes violent record.”
is alarming. I mean straight up falsehoods which he most know are so. He’s not senile. He’s not stupid. He’s a sloppy debater or propagandist – unfortunately.
BS ?
How so ?
The democratic party is riding a tiger and there is no way off.
We were just told by the media, by democrats that the violence and looting and burning and killing and injury – that was all just peaceful protest.
That is not pandering to antifa ? To the anarchic left ?
Right now in Seattle we have CHAZ and the mayor is telling us this is just a peaceful protest – and poetry readings.
Absolutely it is good news that we are NOT seeing the same summer of rage as 1968 or the Post Rodney King LA riots.
These protestors deserve some credit for learning from their own past mistakes.
At the same time the contrast to the lockdown protests is in our faces.
Regardless, anger – even anger that the rest of us can empathize with is useless absent the education, ideas and philosophical foundations to channel it productively.
Our founders had a pretty good idea – not merely what they were angry about, but what they wanted. They were also versed in history and philosophy.
No discussion of the founding is complete without grasping that they studied the greeks and the romans, and europe, they knew what had worked and what did not.
Nearly every other revolution in history – every “class struggle” – and this is no different, has eventually fizzled in a pool of blood.
Are democrats pandering litterally to antifa ? Maybe not.
But they are pandering to young adults who are completely clueless.
Because WE have failed them.
WE made them snowflakes.
BS like this by John.
BIden kicked Bernie’s ass. Hillary kicked Bernie’s ass. Bernie’s voters don’t show up in November anyway. How is that riding a tiger?
PS You might look at that tiger on your back John. It’s all in orange and leaves a very bad taste for a party that has only won the vote once in 7 presidential tries. Did I mention the demographic is dying?
“Bernie’s voters don’t show up in November anyway.”
Highly likely true, and if not Biden loses, just as Hillary did.
To win an election you must win sufficient of the independents, get the moderate members of your party out to vote AND get your far flank energized.
Democrats – almost all democrats spent the entire primary appealing to bernie voters.
They did not do that in the expectation they would stay home in November.
Further Biden is the “moderate” democratic choice. He likely will bring in the moderate portion of the democratic party – the Bill Clinton democrats to the polls.
He may bring alot of independents. but he likely loses unless he can get enough of the left. And that has driven the democratic party increasingly leftward since Bill Clinton.
“You might look at that tiger on your back John. It’s all in orange and leaves a very bad taste for a party that has only won the vote once in 7 presidential tries. Did I mention the demographic is dying?”
Have you entirely missed the part that I am libertarian ? I have voted for Gary Johnson Twice, And Bob Barr, and likely Jo Jorgenson.
I am not a big Trump fan.
But you should thank god that I and many like me will vote libertarain.
Because if you put a gun to my head and said Trump or Biden or death.
That choice is easy. Trump by a long shot.
If Trump would just shutup, there is alot for libertarians to like.
I am ecstatic about his court appointments,
he is the most deregulatory president since Carter,
Who was also the last president to NOT start a war – though Grenada is pretty whimpy.
During the Trump presidency did we go to somlia, Panama, Bosnia, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya … Anywhere ?
Absolutely I would have gotten out of everywhere faster than Trump.
But Obama promised to be out of Iraq and afghanistan and Gitmo in 90 days.
8 years later – still there.
I am libertarain – I would open the borders. You want to come here – fine by me.
But no entitlements, no minimum wage, no social security, no social safety net.
That worked well for us in the 19th century and everyone prospered.
I oppose Trump on Trade – as well as Biden, and Obama and Clinton and …
I support Europe learnignt o defend themselves – and paying for it.
I do not support government foriegn aide.
Give to the charity you want yourself.
I would cut military spending in half – possibly even less.
In policy after policy I may disagree with Trump – but I disagree with Biden and every democrat more.
And me and those like me were 4% of the vote in 2016. That is over 4M votes.
The popular vote difference between Clinton and Trump was only 2.5M votes.
As to “demographics is destiny”
The irish vote used to be democrat, the italian vote used to be democrat.
Just about every single immigrant group in US history started as democrats.
With each generation, and as standards of living rose they slowly become more conservative.
Just as in age cohorts we become more conservative as we age.
John Say– I agree. I would add something though. When Antifa burst into our consciousness some years back, they did it with a chant: “Pigs in a blanket, fry ’em like bacon.” We all learned their message. They were anti-cop and had no qualms about wishing them dead. At that instant, all elected officials in this country should have condemned them. But they actually were encouraged and were allowed to flourish and became a force on the campuses of some of our universities with the power to silence anyone with a contrary view.
When Antifa came out in force over the death of a convicted felon with no apparent redeeming qualities and the riots began, politicians from all sides once again had the opportunity to condemn them and ask Antifa to slither back under the rocks. Let people protest. That’s what Americans do, but don’t infect legitimate protests with your anti-Americanism. Only Republicans did that. Democrats– at least the leaders on a national, state and local level– embraced them and began repeating the refrain “Black Lives Matter” even though the organization obviously was a fraud. Isn’t it clear by now that the only lives that mattered to Antifa were the black lives that were ended by a white policeman. They could not have cared less for the hundreds of black lives ended by other blacks in Chicago and Baltimore and New York. Once again, democrats and Antifa walked lock-step because no democrat– from Obama on down– dove into the horrible murder rates among blacks in these cities. And then came Seattle. Antifa and its fellow travelers and anarchists invaded part of downtown Seattle and the unimaginably weak leaders of that city and State handed it over to them. Democrats did not rise up in mass and demand that Antifa be driven out. Instead they stood silently by while the hopelessly incompetent Mayor, Police Chief and Governor wallowed in their own mess.
The democrat party enabled Antifa to exist and grow. Now, democrats, be proud of what you have done– don’t try and change the subject or reinterpret what we are seeing and hearing from the mouths of your Antifa friends. Antifa wants dead cops. Be proud of that. Antifa wants to do away with police, presumably so the George Floyds of this country can invade homes and threaten pregnant women with impunity. Be proud of that. And most importantly, continue to condemn those of us who don’t agree with your disdain for this country and everything it stands for.
Honest, you are 100% correct. All of this could have been stopped day 1.
In fact the destruction of our universities in the 60’s and 70′ could have been stopped immediately had the administrators done their jobs. When they don’t the next step is threatening anyone in disagreement with the movement until disagreement is extinguished so that now a group can burn down a building at a university because they don’t like the peaceful speaker.
Haidt noted that the collapse of academia truly occured when the ballance shifted from 70:30 left/right to 95:5
Several things happened then.
Students rarely got exposed to views outside the left echo chamber.
Look at the violent efforts that students go to, to avoid the possibility of hearing a non-left wing nut speaker.
Next the left started attacking itself.
It is not truly conservative professors in academia who are being targeted today.
It is those not marxist or postmodern.
We have suspended a professor for refusing to give black students a pass on an exam that was 100% of their grade, and which he has no means of knowing the race of the student taking the exam.
I doubt this was a “john bircher” just an accounting professor who expected students to be graded on accounting in an accounting course – not political activism.
JK Rowling is being massacred right now, but read what she actually wrote.
She is championing the victims of sexual assault and violence.
She is not questioning the freedom of people to do as they wish with their bodies, just the outside pressures to do permanently what is not easily correctable.
“JK Rowling is being massacred right now, but read what she actually wrote.
She is championing the victims of sexual assault and violence.”
Rowling is absolutely correct. There is little room on the left for diversity.
Honest, that’s BS out of your imagination or spinning by Fox and people like JT. For one, here’s the mayor of Atlanta:
https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/05/30/keisha-lance-bottoms-full-address-atlanta-protests-vpx.wgcl
Generally – Atlanta has done better than most of the big cities.
When you jump to fallacy and ad hominem you burn any possibility of legitimate debate and critical thinking to the ground.
I agree with the view that Turley is changing – though the real change is that the anarchic and postmodern left are ascendant, and Turley is as any thinking person cognizant that ends badly.
Trump is another factor. The left – from center left to the extreme has thrown hand grenades and nuclear bombs at him for 4 years and he is still standing.
Nearly everything that has been said of him has proven to be not just false – but lies, and mostly lies that critical thinkers should have seen from the start.
And the consequences of all this ? Democrats have shifted even farther left and become even more bat S%$t crazy.
The police are not the brown shirts, They are not systemically racist, but there is a real opportunity to actually improve policing.
Possibly one of the most important points of the floyd video is that it could not have happened but for the silence of the 99% of police that are “not bad apples”.
My hope is that if nothing else, the police will quit covering for the bad apples among them. That would be the most significant reform of all.
Regardless, JT – like myriads of people who can not stomach the chaos and insanity that has taken over the left, the entire democratic party, is taking baby steps toward sanity.
As are large numbers in this country.
John, you keep making the same emotional arguments without any support and then take too long to say it. I never read all your stuff. It’s repetitive and not that interesting. Maybe there’s something interesting buried in there, but I have better things to do than trying to find it.
“and then take too long to say it.”
His wasn’t a long comment…takes less than 30 seconds to read.
What emotional argument would that be ?
You have some good support from an anonymous black history professor from Berkeley:
“If we claim that the criminal justice system is white-supremacist, why is it that Asian Americans, Indian Americans, and Nigerian Americans are incarcerated at vastly lower rates than white Americans? This is a funny sort of white supremacy. Even Jewish Americans are incarcerated less than gentile whites. I think it’s fair to say that your average white supremacist disapproves of Jews. And yet, these alleged white supremacists incarcerate gentiles at vastly higher rates than Jews. None of this is addressed in your literature. None of this is explained, beyond hand-waving and ad hominems. “Those are racist dogwhistles”. “The model minority myth is white supremacist”. “Only fascists talk about black-on-black crime”, ad nauseam.
These types of statements do not amount to counterarguments: they are simply arbitrary offensive classifications, intended to silence and oppress discourse. Any serious historian will recognize these for the silencing orthodoxy tactics they are, common to suppressive regimes, doctrines, and religions throughout time and space. They are intended to crush real diversity and permanently exile the culture of robust criticism from our department.
Increasingly, we are being called upon to comply and subscribe to BLM’s problematic view of history, and the department is being presented as unified on the matter. In particular, ethnic minorities are being aggressively marshaled into a single position. Any apparent unity is surely a function of the fact that dissent could almost certainly lead to expulsion or cancellation for those of us in a precarious position, which is no small number.
I personally don’t dare speak out against the BLM narrative, and with this barrage of alleged unity being mass-produced by the administration, tenured professoriat, the UC administration, corporate America, and the media, the punishment for dissent is a clear danger at a time of widespread economic vulnerability. I am certain that if my name were attached to this email, I would lose my job and all future jobs, even though I believe in and can justify every word I type.
The vast majority of violence visited on the black community is committed by black people. There are virtually no marches for these invisible victims, no public silences, no heartfelt letters from the UC regents, deans, and departmental heads. The message is clear: Black lives only matter when whites take them. Black violence is expected and insoluble, while white violence requires explanation and demands solution. Please look into your hearts and see how monstrously bigoted this formulation truly is.”
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/anonymous-berkeley-professor-shreds-blm-injustice-narrative-damning-stats-and-logic
John Mosby – well written article by the Berkeley anonymous and soon to be doxxed professor.
If we wish to fix problems. we must actually understand what those problems are and what their causes are.
There are LOTS of changes I beleive we should do to policing.
Almost everything proposed that is NOT defund or abolish the police,
I not only support. but have argued for for decades
We should do those – carefully.
At the same time – it is not the 50’s in Selma Alabama.
Crime has been declining for decades.
By every measure policing has been improving for decades.
We want to help that improve further – we do not want to break that.
Someone linked to the changes in Camden. Those appear to have worked.
There is also extensive use of Holder/Obama’s use of consent decrees to change policing – those failed and increased crime. That is the consequence of presuming policing is racist – crime increases.
There are also reasons for crime that have nothing to do with policing at all,
and are far larger that we are not looking at.
It is not a biased reading of her perspective. She wants to abolish the police, abolish prisons, etc.
Here is an interesting interview with her:
https://thenextsystem.org/learn/stories/towards-horizon-abolition-conversation-mariame-kaba
Prairie, who is Miriam Kaba and why does anyone care what she thinks?
Bythebook,
I have no idea who she is. Never heard of her. However, the NYT thought she was enough of a somebody to run an opinion piece by her.
ROFLMAO
Prairie just humiliated BuydaBook for use of doublespeak and double orifices…
Thanks Prairie…..
Book, keep em coming! Trump should lose by any metric but you, Woke Speak, NYT, and your ilk are demonstrating why Trump will win……
“Yes, We Mean Literally Abolish the Police Because reform won’t happen.”
By Mariame Kaba
Ms. Kaba is an organizer against criminalization.
– NYT
Cundy’s at it again!
I think Bythebook asked a very good question. I probably should not have bothered linking to that interview. Why give her ideas a wider audience? ‘Why does anyone care what she thinks?’ I disagree with her perspectives. They aren’t even particularly a starting place to discuss reform.
I suppose it lays bare the problem of utopian ideals that discount human failings and the concurrent requirement of personal responsibility and valor of a sufficient number of people for a society to function effectively. Lose those important character traits and people do not govern themselves effectively in their private lives or in their duty as democratic citizens.
Men must be governed. By you yourself or by others. If you wish to govern yourself, you need to step up to the plate.
There will a percentage of the population that will not govern themselves. For that, we have laws, police, and the judicial system.
Abolishing the police and the prisons will not eliminate the darkness and irresponsibility lurking in people’s souls. Some will do what is right regardless. What, then, should be done with those who will not?
Prairie, I have numerous times here in the last week or soo explained that I rarely read NYTs opinion columns. Plenty of people clearly do, but that’s not what they are known for and why it has been delivered to the desk tops of execs and administrators – like the WSJ – for decades and before.
I occasionally read Friedman, Stephens, Goldberg, and maybe Douthat but either don’t like or am oblivious to others like this one.
JT’s promotion of stuff like this is regular and a clear attempt to paint my party as a bunch of left wing crackpots. This is the party that has consistently fielded centrist democrats in the general election, not left wing crackpots, which is the reason it is also the party which has won the popular presidential vote in 6 of the last 7 elections.
Bythebook,
I have been an irregular reader of the blog as of late (my garden and other pressing issues), so I missed reading that you do not regularly read the NYT’s opinion page.
The topic of this blog post was this woman’s NYT’s article. I did not read it since it required I sign in, so I found something else representative of her views.
I know there are centrist Democrats out there. I have a diverse family–a handful of old-school centrist Democrats, a few centrist Republicans, a few centrist Independents, and then there are the more leftist Democrats who echo the most current talking points.That is where your party is sliding–towards the shrill radicals. That’s not good for anyone.
Is it Professor Turley who is highlighting the outliers, the media, or are their shrill voices drowning out those more tempered?
It may be that the Democrat party left you. That is unfortunate. The world desperately needs to find its center again.
Prairie, no offense, but that’s a completely false impression that is odds with a recent national election, not to mention recent elections in the past, including 2018. What makes you think this woman, or rioters in the streets, are Democrats? JT or Fox News? Were the Charlottesville alt right rallyers Republicans?
Bernie is probably to the right of this columnist and he lost soundly to a centrist Democrat – again! JT is smart enough to know this and it is difficult to see any other purpose in his false claims than trying to paint most in the party – it’s voters – where they aren’t. On issue after issue, – from gun control, to immigration, to medical insurance – the majority of voters in this country track with Democrats, not Republicans who have been captured by a pathetic but ugly human being and extremist viewpoints on these same issues.
You are free to read what you want. But the NYT opinion section is one of the more important forums for advocacy in the nation, and have been for a century.
The most important voices on all sides of all issues have made their arguments on the NYT Opinion pages
No longer
“JT’s promotion of stuff like this is regular and a clear attempt to paint my party as a bunch of left wing crackpots.”
Democrats are doing that to themselves. They do not need JT’s help.
Regardless, you have no problem doing what you accuse JT of to republicans.
“This is the party that has consistently fielded centrist democrats in the general election, not left wing crackpots,”
McGovern, Mondale,
“which is the reason it is also the party which has won the popular presidential vote in 6 of the last 7 elections.”
Yet the lost the elections.
We do not remember which Superbowl team had the most yards, or interceptions. or time with the ball. We ask who scored the most points.
All those other things are well know factors that often lead to scoring.
But they are not the objective, they are a means.
The same is true of the popular vote. If the winner were determined by popular vote – the candidates would campaign differently.
In 2016 Trump worked the rust belt hard, and he won those votes and he won those states.
Clinton worked to increase her votes in California. That certainly boosted her vote totals. but it did not effect the outcome.
If you do not like the rules – change them. Pass a constitutional amendment.
May you live in interesting times!!!!
Heil Mao! Or is it hiel Mao?
Product of incestuous relationships can have brain damage. You can try the bleach therapy.
ACH Tung!