Below is my earlier column in the Hill on the issues that we are following in the various states. Many of these issues are now being litigated on the deadlines and conditions for voting. We are still seeing challenges over the voting and now over the counting. We will be moving to the next phase from counting to keeping votes. Even if a state is declared for a candidate, there will be recount and challenges. Recounts historically have no resulted in substantial changes with the exception of the Florida recount in 2000 where there were serious problems in the design of ballots and intent of voters. There remain however categorical challenges like the one kicked back by the Supreme Court in Pennsylvania.
Here is the column:
The election is here and the record level of early voting is matched only by the record level of conspiracy theories. Many harbor doubts over whether their votes will count, but such doubts have lingered in history. Like Mark Twain said, “If voting made a difference, they would not let us do it.”
Both sides are fueling such insecurities. President Trump has condemned mail voting as an effort to steal the election, so Democrats accuse him of sparking a coup attempt if he loses. Democrats like House Majority Whip James Clyburn have said that the only way Joe Biden can lose the election is “for voter suppression to be successful.” Republicans accuse Clyburn of fueling riots if Trump is not declared the loser on election night.
It is not surprising that both sides have raised tens of millions of dollars and enlisted hundreds of lawyers for the election challenges based on a “saturation bombing” legal strategy. The litigation started weeks before the election, and thousands of ballots are being set aside in anticipation for court reviews. Every election for president I have covered as a legal analyst has raised challenges, including the ultimate contested 2000 election that ended with the ruling in George Bush versus Al Gore.
It is inevitable with tens of millions of voters across thousands of polls that isolated or systemic problems arise. But this election is different by a high order of magnitude. Mail voting is always a magnet for challenges. In past elections, some mail ballots were not even counted since they would not affect the outcome. Now officials have to process tens of millions of mail ballots in areas that have not dealt with such numbers before. Watch the developments in three basic categories as the election unfolds.
Voting Deadlines
The first category of challenges is deadlines. This will constitute the most extensive form of challenges. The “clocking” of ballots is an effective basis for challenges as the deadlines are set by state law. The results have been mixed thus far. One federal court agreed with the challenge by Minnesota Republicans in rejecting an extended deadline to receive absentee ballots after today. A split panel of the Eighth Circuit ordered that any mail ballots received at a set time tonight must be set aside for potential nullification. There is now litigation on the state and federal level on the issue.
The Supreme Court has issued its own orders. It ended the Wisconsin plan to count mail ballots received up to six days after the election. The bench broke along ideological lines as Chief Justice John Roberts held that such orders constitute “federal intrusion” on state law. However, the bench split evenly on the Pennsylvania extension of the deadline for absentee voting, which left the court orders standing. Roberts voted for that extension as part of such “authority of state courts to apply their own constitutions to election regulations.” Conversely, the Supreme Court voted to support an extension for the deadline of absentee ballots in North Carolina.
Justice Samuel Alito, Justice Clarence Thomas, and Justice Neil Gorsuch have indicated that the Pennsylvania challenges raise not just state but federal issues. It is not clear how Justice Amy Coney Barrett, who sat on the Supreme Court for the first time this week, will decide on the issues. Even if she votes with her colleagues, Roberts is the swing vote.
Voting Conditions
Another category of challenges is conditions. This rises significantly in the election and includes allegations of voter suppression due to long lines or malfunctioned equipment. This year has seen novel challenges and mixed results in this category. Given such high turnout, the time it takes to vote could be an issue. It was the case in the 2012 election, when some voters complained of standing in line for hours. Such delays will likely result in filings for courts to monitor and solve them with extended hours.
The Texas high court denied the Republican petition to invalidate almost 127,000 drive through votes in Harris County. A unanimous Pennsylvania high court ruled that mail ballots must not be rejected due to perceived mismatches between signatures. The Supreme Court upheld an Alabama challenge to curbside voting, supporting the view that it is not permitted under state law. The Supreme Court has also ruled to enforce the South Carolina mandate that absentee ballots be signed by a witness.
There have not been great challenges over the conditions at polling places. Instead, the litigation has focused on the conditions for the counting of balloting, including the denial or separation of monitors from counting and processing areas.
Voting Certification
The most worrisome category of challenges is certification. This comes when the votes must be certified by the states for eventual submission to Congress. Many states do not start counting votes until after polls close. That could leave the outcome hanging by both tabulation and litigation, which could be serious in Pennsylvania. Michigan is also of concern due to its 1,600 districts with different systems. Wisconsin and Nevada will process record numbers of mail ballots with untested systems. Nevada has rejected demands for added standards to count ballots that could spark challenges over potential voter fraud. Such challenges can force recounts, the process that slowed states like Florida in 2000.
The problem is that the states must send certified results to Congress in five weeks. There is a chance that challenges could delay submissions, or that states could send two sets of electors as a result of disputed results. Congress would have to select between those conflicting sets or perhaps disregard submissions. There is also a chance that neither candidate will secure 270 electoral votes, which leads to a dangerous battle.
Much of the litigation will not be to ensure a clear majority but to reduce the margin for either party. If a party can toss out enough ballots or force enough of its own votes to be counted, it is possible to cut challenges in arguing that, even if successful, they will not alter the outcome. Trump declared that “as soon as that election is over, we are going in with our lawyers.” But that is not necessary since they are already there.
Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University. You can find his updates online @JonathanTurley.
So far it’s the House of Reps that is in trouble for the socialist faction as Pelosians are outnumbered by independent Demcrats and Constitutionalists. Add the Senate and SCOTUS the left is stripped of it’s power.
Mike there is no “left” and socialism is besides the point. There are billionaires and their lackeys are the Democrat leadership hirelings and their vote-riggers.
They are enslaving the working and middle class people. This is a civil war heating up.
The only question is on what day do the workers and middle class unite against their oppressors and slaughter them? Never? one year? Five
If never then we deserve our fate as neutered tax slaves and passive weaklings
Saloth Sar
Less than 15k votes between Trump and Biden total’s in GA right now, with >99% of the votes counted. Trump’s lawsuit in Chatham County was just dismissed by Judge James Bass.
So much of this was totally predictable. Only legal, legitimate votes that were submitted before or on election day should be counted. Period.
DV, the votes being counted in Georgia, Pennsylvania, Arizona, etc. are mail in votes that got there most likely before the day of the election, but early counting of them was resisted successfully by the GOP. Some states allow votes postmarked by the day of the election, just as the IRS and most legal contracts stipulate when accepting dated communications. It’s the only fair way to verify timeliness, especially given how screwed up the USPS is right now.
Ballot fraud evidence here, hand cancelled backdated ballots in Michigan, and if proper investigation ensues, many more conspirators in the postal service and political machines can be rooted out.
https://thepostmillennial.com/breaking-project-veritas-releases-new-video-in-which-michigan-usps-whistleblower-alleges-ballot-fraud
That’s what they’re counting: legal absentee ballots that were mailed by Election Day. State rules vary, and in some states, the absentee ballots must be received by Election Day, but in other states, they’re counted as long as they’re received within a fixed # of days after Election Day.
In several states, GOP legislatures prevented early mail-in ballots from being counted prior to Election Day. It can take a few days to count them all.
Several States allow the Board of Election to perform every function needed to verify the Mail In Ballot except for the actual counting of them which can only be done beginning when the Polls open. on Election Day.
That would mean the counting is the only function left undone at Poll Opening time.
Now…why would we (as in North Carolina) why have mail in ballots been granted extensions beyond traditional grace periods, any effort to verify signatures been banned, and ballots with NO Date Stamps been allowed?
Please do in ten words or less explain how those measures ensure a secure, safe, transparent election?
Never mind the Registered Voters List problems like Dead People, folks who have moved and not re-registered, States not informing other States of moved voters registering and requesting de-registration of the voter, illegal aliens, felons, and other dis-qualified persons from voting that our system is plagued with.
SEVERAL States allow that, but not ALL.
State laws differ. Deal with it.
Unless the election turns on late delivered Pa ballots, there will be nothing legitimate to litigate. There will be absolutely no honest question about the legitimacy of the results.
It will be interesting to see if Professor Turley is honest enough to say that loud and clear, or if he instead tries to placate his right wing fan base.
“There will be absolutely no honest question about the legitimacy of the results.”
Was there something about this:
“There have not been great challenges over the conditions at polling places. Instead, the litigation has focused on the conditions for the counting of balloting, including the denial or separation of monitors from counting and processing areas.”
that you don’t comprehend?
Just like 2000, this will end up at the Supreme Court.
Just like 2000, this will end up at the Supreme Court.
Of course it will. The Democrats knew their election shenanigans wouldn’t go unchallenged and RBG’s death and their subsequent meltdown on Barrett’s confirmation proved their nefarious plans might blow up on them. Pelosi is planting the Barrett illegitimacy seed as a dog-whistle to the Democrat’s mob that will ramp up their chaos and mayhem.
https://thepostmillennial.com/breaking-project-veritas-releases-new-video-in-which-michigan-usps-whistleblower-alleges-ballot-fraud
It appears the solution is to end mail-in ballots with the exception of absentee ballots requested for legitimate reasons–out of state, out of country and so on.
For years, I have been trying to determine if election officials actually verify that those registering to vote are citizens, and no luck. I once thought of creating a false person, but if I did that, and was successful, I would not be able to share the news because I am sure I would be prosecuted, as to make an example of a “troublemaker’.
The solution is for legislatures to allow county election boards to start counting mail-in votes before Election Day but wait til Election Day to add those numbers to the total votes. We should be making it easy for all legal voters to vote securely. Why do you want some of your fellow citizens to be disenfranchised?
“Why do you want some of your fellow citizens to be disenfranchised?”
When did you stop beating your wife?
Fraud and criminals exist at all levels of society and in all industries. It would be beyond naive to pretend that election fraud doesn’t happen. Voters should provide ID when they vote in person. For mail in ballots, there should also be some kind of authentication to ensure the ballot was actually requested by the registered voter, and that the registered voter actually exists.
Lorenzo, voter fraud atthe booth is illogical as well as being documented as extremely rare. There are serious penalties for doing it and virtually no reward – “Yeah, this looks like any easy job. I’ll just go in and pretend I’m somebody else and get away with a free “I voted!” sticker. Or maybe I can get a few thousand of my boys together and we can win the election!”
JT conveniently glosses over that these suits are all Rs trying to throw out legally cast ballots by retroactively changing the rules. That is the stuff you see in failed counties, not robust ones.
MollyG:
One commentator on TV last night said Democrats had filed their lawsuits earlier to get voting accommodations because of Covid-19. So, if the commentator is correct, then it is now the GOP time to litigate. And if the commentator is further correct, then it might be fair to say those accommodations are partly responsible for the current mess.
Steve, what “mess” are you talking about? All that’s going on is normal vote counting. The reason the vote counting is taking so long is that more people voted by mail because of Covid and in many of these states the Republicans blocked laws that would have allowed the counting to start earlier. Election officials in PA begged the GOP state legislature to allow them to start counting the mail-in votes before Election Day, as occurs in many other states. Republicans refused. They didn’t want mail-in votes counted prior to Election Day, and now Trump doesn’t want them counted after Election Day unless he’s behind, like in AZ.
Both Democrats and Republicans filed suits earlier. Did someone mislead you into thinking that it was only Democrats? I wonder why that person would lie about it.
The US electoral system is failing and the obvious cause is the billionaires who have bought off the Democrat party and poured unbelievable amounts of money into buying votes so they could get back at Donald Trump for daring to cut or slow down their labor racketeering with the CCP labor bosses selling out the oppressed workers in China, who are even cheaper than the oppressed workers here.
Those billionaires and their mercenaries must be sternly punished.
-Saloth Sar
Ya, and has noting to do with the Rs being a perpetual minority party clinging to power though gerrymandering and voter suppression.
“Both sides are fueling such insecurities.” – Jonny “Both Sides” Turley
Project Veritas is on it.
https://youtu.be/fS6xOuhsiJw
Malcolm X – “The white liberal is the worst enemy to America…” The media and the pollsters failed miserably. There was no Blue Wave. Republicans held the Senate. Actually gained seats in the House. And since the election was so close…the most corrupt media in our nation’s history doesn’t get to right how Trump ruined the Republican Party. He is leaving as one of the most popular Republican presidents in history. He will still be the most popular figure in the party over the next 4 years. Joe Biden won’t even remember who he is in 4 years. Trump will return in the next election as the Conquering Hero and CRUSH Biden and Harris!
I’d prefer an effort to eradicate fraud NOW.
So much archaic rot in the local political GANGS, smash their oligarchy.
Media maleficence and COMPLETE LACK OF CONFIDENCE in non accounted votes will make chimp vs. chump look like a kiddie play compared to what is coming.
Accounted Vote -the act of checking the accuracy of a mail in vote
Publius is on the right track
-Saloth Sar
The Senate hasn’t been decided yet, and it may not be decided until January, if there’s a run-off election for the GA Senate seat.
Trump is not leaving as one of the most popular Republican presidents in history. In his entire presidency, he has not been above a 50% approval average. Hopefully Trump will be prosecuted for his crimes once he’s out of office.
LOL Trump is losing to a failing old man who no one even likes. Popular? Only within the cult. Even a large swath of those who voted for Trump are embarrassed by him. A summer full of scary riots is probably the only thing that got him close. He might be back in 2024 and I’m sure the scumbags at the DNC are hoping for it. Imagine how badly a fully functioning candidate not named Hilary would destroy him!
How about:
SCOTUS should just say there are too many unConstitutional and fraudulent processes in too many states and therefore, no candidate can possibly get a legitimate majority of EC votes.
Then the final rule would be for SCOTUS to throw the election the the House of Representatives where, as per the Constitution, the President would be elected by the Representation of each state(not a vote of each representative)..
Then the Senate would elect the Vice President.
We have a Constitutional process for electing the President when no candidate reaches a majority of EC..
Nowhere in the Constitution is there a provision for a new election..
If SCOTUS rules EC votes are irredeemably spoiled due to rampant election irregularities then wouldn’t this process take over as the only valid Constitutional remedy?
So, the states’ legislatures shouldn’t be able to decide the process of counting votes?
You have a wild imagination to think the SC is going to rule that EC votes are irredeemably spoiled due to rampant election irregularities.
There are no rampant election irregularities.
Turley recycles a column written a couple of days ago instead of discussing the multiple lawsuits Trump has filed since Election Day.
Robert Barnes’s legal logic leads to one conclusion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XilYcyzUaPM&t=2265s
“Both sides-ism” taken to new highs by this BS from our concern troll blogger,Turley. On one side we have the President and his relatives and henchmen pumping conspiracy while trying to stop votes where he is ahead and seeking them where behind, In contrast, Biden and his team are not trying to stop vote counting anywhere nor are he and his spokesman denouncing the process or it’s officials anywhere. Cut the crap Turley. You’re here to score points, not seek truth.
+10
– 42.3645
+43
The Dems want to count “every vote,” while the Republicans want to count “every LEGITIMATE vote.” If the Dems win the argument, we will then have a one party system, like China, Cuba, etc.
Let me get this straight Free. So legitimate votes are those where Trump is behind and illegitimate votes are those where he is ahead. Is that how you tell?
I’m a Democrat. I want all legal votes to be counted.
Is that what you mean by “legitimate”?
In Arizona the Trumpers are outside the processing center chanting, “Count those votes!”
In Georgia the Trumpers were chanting, “Stop the count!”
You can’t make this up.
Simple minds don’t apply context?
I think we get the “context” Publius.
I don’t think you do.
How bout examples?
..joe
Time for the election officials to be above board and non-partisan.
Seems like there is a lot of smoke.
This election must be accepted, not crammed down our throats.