Below is my column in the Hill on continuing controversies over vote counting in states like Nevada and Pennsylvania. Some of these challenges are based on the resistance to monitors and observers in states like Pennsylvania. It is mystifying why Pennsylvania is fighting so hard against such access. The litigation is only fueling suspicions of wrongdoing as the vote balance shifts dramatically. The problem is that a court could ultimately agree that the officials violated state laws but declare such challenges as effectively moot since the vote counting is largely completed. For other challenges, the litigants will need to convince a court that the number of impacted ballots could be “outcome determinative” for the electoral votes. Otherwise, it could be treated as immaterial to the outcome. Those challenges need to be made and supported without delay. Time works to the advantage of the party protecting a lead. As it stands, the allegations of systemic violations is still to be made by the Trump campaign. Absent real evidence, Joe Biden has a clear path to 270 electoral votes and the White House.
Here is the column:
Legal analysis in a presidential election is often like doing a medical evaluation of a patient in full cardiac arrest while riding a moving roller coaster. For a country on the edge about rioting and claims of unfolding “coups,” this is hardly an ideal condition for dispassionate legal analysis.
For those of us who covered the elections of 2000 and 2016, we tend to quickly isolate those controversies that can actually alter outcomes as opposed to less impactful controversies in various states. It is a type of legal triage: Irregularities in states like New York or Louisiana are cast aside because they will not be “determinative.” Instead, we focus on those “patients” whose status can be changed through judicial review.
We started Election Day with an unusually high level of litigation, including cases that made it to the Supreme Court. More than 300 lawsuits have been filed in dozens of states. Many of these are “placeholder” challenges, to reserve a way to attack results if a given state proves to be a key contest. Three states are now emerging as candidates for challenges: Nevada, Michigan and Pennsylvania. The case law favors those states in defending their local determinations, but valid challenges already were working through the courts.
NEVADA
My selection of Nevada was based on three key criteria. It was facing new and unprecedented systems for voting, there were late changes to standards or practices, and it was going to be close. It has fulfilled all of those legal triage conditions The spread in Nevada is currently a few thousand votes, and early objections to the voting tabulation will now be magnified. The most significant challenges focus on the practices used in Las Vegas.
Before Election Day, Trump campaign chairman for Nevada, Adam Laxalt, objected that Las Vegas officials were barring monitors to allow recording objections to the handling of ballots. There also was a challenge to the use of an optical scanning machine to validate voter signatures as being set with an insufficient level of discrimination. And there are more specific challenges, like a lawsuit focusing on the culinary union and the claim that its members who lived out of state voted in the swing state.
New filings have been brought in Clark County where more than 1.2 million ballots were sent out to voters, or 71 percent of all votes statewide. The new filings have been brought to demand images and mail-in ballot procedures. Nevada has the advantage with early rulings in favor of election officials. Moreover, a challenge and partial recount in 2016 led to virtually no change in the vote count. However, Nevada remains a powerful draw for litigation since the line for flipping the outcome is closest in terms of the margin.
MICHIGAN
Michigan was subjected to a recount in the last presidential election due to the closeness of the vote between Trump and Hillary Clinton. Detroit has a long, checkered history of voting irregularities. In the primary, there were a large number of mismatched ballots, particularly in absentee precincts; those problems were blamed on “human error,” and officials insisted that new electronic ballot tabulators and better training would address the problem. But the administration has filed a challenge to the lack of access given to the process and the ballots.
Michigan’s law makes it more difficult to challenge results. The recount in Michigan in 2016 was halted under that law after being started at the request of Green Party candidate Jill Stein. The result was a gain of only 102 votes for Clinton. While a recount could be launched if the margin is tight, Michigan’s law heavily favors the tabulations of local officials.
PENNSYLVANIA
Pennsylvania remains a target-rich environment for challenges. Judicial changes ordered to the state’s election laws have raised fierce opposition, including state and federal constitutional claims. This issue went to the Supreme Court which deadlocked when Chief Justice John Roberts voted with his liberal colleagues, which left a lower court order unchanged, and the balloting continued. Yet the legal can that Roberts kicked down the road could now come rattling back to a court at full strength with the addition of Justice Amy Coney Barrett.
Issues in Pennsylvania could involve ballots with no postmarks (which the state supreme court ruled must be counted) and the rejection of signature mismatches as a basis for nullifying ballots. There are new lawsuits over officials “curing” defective ballots and allowing disqualified voters to fill out ballots, actions that could knock out small pockets of votes which together could have an impact. However, it is not clear how many ballots would be subject to such challenges or whether those numbers would alter the outcome.
Other states like Arizona, North Carolina, and Wisconsin have challenges that are filed. However, there remains considerable question about whether such challenges could flip the states. The most promising challenges are categorical, where thousands of ballots could be rejected based on the time of their receipt or the standards used in their tabulations. Three additional lawsuits filed by the Trump campaign the day after the election in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Georgia seek access for close observation of ballot counting, a claim more likely to delay than determine the outcome.
Most past challenges in these states have not yielded significant flipping or negation of votes, however. That is the difference with Florida in 2000, where thousands of votes literally hung by a chad and voters’ intent was challengeable due to a moronically designed “butterfly” ballot that seemed to confuse elderly voters.
Each election tends to produce its own unique challenges. This time, some machines had trouble reading ballots due to the hand-sanitizer residue left by many voters. (We might have expected puerile challenges, but not Purell challenges.) Yet the current challenges will largely focus on technical mailing and tabulating systems, issues where states receive great deference. The potential impact will depend on the narrowness of the margin. This is a contest that works by inches, not feet, of progress.
One thing, however, is abundantly clear: This is no way for any developed nation to hold elections. After the divisive 2000 election, I called for Congress to use federal funding to force uniformity in election laws and standards. Instead, Washington did what it always does. It created a commission that took two years and resulted in the Help America Vote Act which meant helping local politicians to billions in federal funds. A couple billion dollars was tossed out faster than a Dade County hanging chad. Each year, we have dysfunctional elections and a lack of uniformity despite billions in federal funding. As Dolly Parton once said, “It costs a lot of money to look this cheap.”
Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University. You can find his updates online @JonathanTurley.
It is impossible to prevent fraud in nationwide mail in voting of this magnitude. When you have vote counters in Michigan cheering when Republican certified observers are forced to leave, the windows boarded up, and then these are the people “correcting” illegible votes…The result is obvious.
Biden had trouble filling a parking lot with a dozen cars. Trump filled stands to overflowing with roaring crowds. Biden appears to be suffering obvious mental decline, and refused to take a cognitive test. He’s currently under investigation for money laundering. Meanwhile Trump broke records for the lowest black unemployment ever recorded. The recovering GDP broke records, a shocking 33.1% growth in a pandemic quarter.
Yet, there were vote dumps across the country that were 100% Biden in swing states.
The rest of the country seemed able to count votes, but strangely, the swing states that went strongly red inexplicably seemed unable to do so without taking days longer than the rest of the country. Amazingly, a tremendous amount of the last votes counted were overwhelmingly for Biden, erasing Trump’s leads. And Republicans were not able to observe.
It has been confirmed in Detroit local news that the Republican attorney has filed a claim that, before she was forced to leave the vote counting room, one of the counters handed her a note that they were changing the date on votes received too late in order to count them.
Yet, Biden just might get away with it. In fact, it would surprise no one if the Democrat Party insisted that all registered voters (including dead ones) be mailed ballots automatically for the duration.
The rest of the countries around the world place a lot of restrictions on mail in ballots, even during the pandemic. You have to request one, and in some countries, like Japan, you have to meet requirements to vote in absentia, such as a doctor’s certificate of disability.
Trump is totally free to file legal challenges, and people like the Republican attorney you mention can testify under oath.
In the meantime, here’s a thread debunking a lot of the fraud allegations –
https://twitter.com/Ike_Saul/status/1324435797374808066
Anonymous – rather that some idiot on Twitter – try the new York Times.
Or the FACT that Democrats threw out hundreds of thousands of democratic votes in their own primiaries just a few months ago.
Regardless, you are making the same mistake you made with Biden’s corruption – and trying to hide the facts.
You probably will get away with it in the short run – but in the long run the damage is likely huge.
You spent the past 4 years trying to get claims of liar, or crook to stick to Trump – and with the deep state, the MSM and social media behind you – you failed.
Do you honestly think that credible claims against Biden and democrats will NOT stick ?
This is not just about who wins – or what happens in court. It is about how things SMELL.
You fail to grasp that the legitimacy of elections rests on the FAITH of people in the results.
When you pull the nonsense that is being done right now – you destroy that faith.
If you really want people to beleive you won the election – then why not count the vote under public scrutiny as is required by law ?
The more that you behav e like you are hiding something – the more people are sure you are crooked.
You might win in the short run – but not the long run.
Yes, fraud does not happen if you can not see it and if you get the outcome you want.
If you think there is no fraud – why are observers being thrown out ?
Why are election officials celebrating the ability to act without oversite ?
In an election what the voter does should be secret.
Everything those running elections do should be completely public.
” Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men ? ! “
…the shadow knows…
This mess was all very predictable and was predicted ( see New York primary).
50 states have different policies and procedures for voting,be it in person or all mail, or hybrid systems of absentee needing an excuse, no excuse absentee and in person.
Ideally, the most secure way to vote is in person ,where the chain of custody of the ballot is in the hands of the voter.
But there are instances even prior to the pandemic , where in person voting was not possible.
With the pandemic this scenario became more widespread and those states that had restrictive excuse only absentee voting needed to adapt to the realities of the pandemic health safety risks. ( again see ie: New York).
So new laws were passed along with new policies and procedures – all new to state and local board of elections and the voting residents.
All taking place in a presidential election, which historically has the highest turnout and volume of voters, volume of ballots in “normal times” , with traditional political types running for election, but neither is the case in this election.
What could go wrong? Well, we’re experiencing those results today.
I agree with Turley that federal uniformity in election laws and procedures , at least for federal elections ( president, constitutional amendments (?).
The pandemic did not preclude inperson voting.
There was no need to “adapt” to any reality.
Faux emergencies are always the excuses that tryants use.
Does an epidemic justify the police failing to do their job ?
Do we deliberately let crime occur because of some emergency ?
The absentee process has worked fine for decades.
What you call restrictive is just the process used to prevent fraud.
You were fine with people going to the grocery store throughout the pandemic.
Why couldn’t they got to the polls ?
There has never been a valid claim that mailin voting was either necescary or good.
And you know quite well that democrats would have been obliterated without it,
and likely will be obliterated in 2022.
New laws WERE NOT PASSED.
The only state to pass a mailin voting law was Nevada.
In every other state that had new Mailin voting this election it was accomplished by governors emergency dictates – even though legislatures were available and in session.
Pelosi just formally announced that she’s seeking another 2 years as Speaker. I hope she’s challenged.
I hope she continues.
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall
All the king’s horses and all the king’s men
Couldn’t put Humpty together again
_______________________________________
Get a transparent vote, y’all. That’s the easy way forward.
If both sides can’t agree to that, then what will be will be.
It is not hard to construct a voting system that is not merely almost fraud proof – but is publicly trustworthy.
The core problem is that all rules regarding voting are constraints – and the left likes to call that voter supression.
If you require that all vote counting occur on election day – you get whines from democrats that some votes will not be counted.
Of course that is true – if you expect people to follow a rule – there must be a consequence if they do not.
There is no practical reason that all votes can not be counted election day – 90+% of the country manages that with no problem.
There are the same number of voters in every congressional district in the country.
“We’ll Get Fu*king Torn Apart Again In 2022″: Democrats Livid In Leaked Caucus Call After Crushing Election Losses”
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/well-get-fuking-torn-apart-again-2022-democrats-livid-leaked-caucus-call-after-crushing
“House Democrats were livid during a Thursday caucus call after the so-called ‘blue wave’ they were promised by pollster evaporated, and they lost several seats, according to leaked excerpts.
According to AP’s Erica Werner, Virginia Rep. Abigail Spanberger was reportedly the most vocal – reportedly complaining that “we lost races we shouldn’t have lost. Defund police almost cost me my race because of an attack ad. Don’t say socialism ever again,” yelling that the party needs to “get back to basics…….
“centrist Democrats are now talking about throwing their support behind a challenger to Pelosi, with two prominent Democrats telling the outlet that they are reaching out to their colleagues about backing Hakeem Jeffries (D-NY) to take Pelosi’s place.
“He’s the only one prepared and positioned” to become speaker, one of them said. ” He bridges moderates and progressives better than anyone. And most importantly, he’s not Nancy Pelosi.”
Meanwhile the Republican A listers who (like their fellow Democrat club members) have made millions over the years using their office to personally profit at the expense of their constituents, have been completely silent. And Barr has directed all complaints about cheating to the FBI. Which is like telling the Hens to complain to the Fox about the other Foxes running loose in the henhose.
So, this further hastens the demise of both Party’s. But in the meantime, 2022 will be a complete and total bloodbath for Democrats. Especially after the Dems have had to get rid of Biden due to his Dementia, and replace him with the cackling gang banger named Kamala. Biden won’t last more than next May or June.
The foundation for the US becoming just another Banana Republic was laid in 2008 after the criminal Banksters were bailed out at taxpayer expense. But now it is complete, thanks to the oh so convenient scamdemic. Welcome to the Banana Republic!
But knowing what is rotten is a good thing. If your tooth rots, you go to the dentist and fix the problem and save your other teeth. If you want your tree to grow healthy, you trim the dead branches.
Soon enough it will be time to start cutting out all of the rot inside the beltway.
You are far more likely to see more Democrats change their party, than you are to see a successful leadership challenge that results in a change of direction in the democratic party.
While the “centrists” are right – that much of the democratic nonsense in 2020 harmed them, the problem is that democrats have lost sufficiently much of the center – and they are not getting it back that the MUST kow tow to the left.
Immediately post 2016 was likely the last moment that democrats could have tacked to the center without tearing the party apart.
Today they have bet all on the far left, and they are wedded to them inextricably.
Democrats can not put the cat back in the bag, it is going to take years to separate themselves from socialism and defund the police.
I would further note the turnout in this election was Massive – and Republicans made significant gains in the house, held the Senate and the presidency is on a knifes edge. They did so under totally completely optimal conditions for democrats.
It is unlikely they can repeat this.
It is unlikely they will raise this kind of money again.
It is unlikely they can match this turnout – but it is likely that many of the large number of new GOP voters will show up in the future.
If Harris/Biden win – they will have to deliver – or they will lose the far left. And they can not deliver or they will lose the center.
I have repeatedly said that one of the worst outcomes for democrats would be winning this election.
The scenario that appears to be unfolding is probably the worst possible outcome.
They are nearly powerless, they have a corrupt president who want in a corrupt election. They have tied themselves to very stupid things like socialism and defunding the police. And 2022 is likely to be worse for Dems that 2010.
Then again, weeks ago, you predicted openly a decisive trump victory in this election so there’s that.
Indeed anonymous. The pronouncements of John Say are selling cheap.
Which pronouncements would these be ?
You and anonymous have no credibility.,
You have made so many false claims and bought so much garbage.
There is no good reason to trust anything you say.
I do not recall predicting a big trump victory.
I specifically stated that I hoped that EITHER Trump of Biden would win big enough that the mess we have now would not occur.
But hoping that this election would not go to hell is not a prediction.
I did however predict that the polls were wrong – and they were.
My track record is pretty good – how about yours ?
What have you been right about ?
I did ? Then you would be able to cite that – full context.
All I recall predicting was that the polls were badly wrong,
I also explicitly stated that I HOPED the results would be decisive – regardless of who won.
The worst possible outcome is the one we have – an election where there is good reason to doubt the results.
Hoping is not predicting.
Though I am deeply concerned about the probability of fraud. That is incredibly dangerous.
We have already seen what the ludicrously stupid beleif of the left that Trump was elected illegitimatedly produced.
A widespread credible beleif that democrats won by fraud – which to be honest they did. The shift to mailin elections on the authority of governors alone justifed by the faux emergency of Covid is ALONE sufficient fraud to doubt the results.
Prof. Turley there is a massive problem with your article.
This is not the first time that a US election has been clouded by claims of election fraud – and it will not be the last.
The legal conflicts that you note as well as the “triage” standards you raise are part of the problem – NOT the cure.
One of the problems with election fraud is that those who engage in it and those who challenge it are the parties.
It is irrelevant whether misconduct is occuring in Nevada or Lousiana. Even the appearance of election fraud should not be allowed ANYWHERE.
Your fixation on those places it matters is greatly misplaced. There is no place in the country where fraud can not tip some close local election.
We should absolutely be able to trust that our presidential elections are without fraud – but it is important that even elections for dog catcher be without fraud. It is important that we eliminate fraud even where it does not matter.
Voters must trust that elections are conducted honestly – or the very foundation of govenrment is erroded.
Bush V. Gore in 2000 should have been a wakeup call, instead the HAV act if anything made things WORSE.
Most of the “after the fact” legal battles we are having right now were entirely avoidable.
There is absolutely no reason on earth that all votes can not be counted on election day. 90+% of precincts in the US manage that every single election without fail. It is ALWAYS suspicious when a small percent of precints are consistently unable to manage what nearly all others can easily.
It is unlikely that you will fix the problems with some precints taking forever to count votes without imposing consequences – and courts are reluctant to do that.
It is not at all difficult to run an election by rules that make election fraud nearly impossible – atleast for in person votes.
While there is alot that can be done to make mailin voting less prone to fraud, it is ultimately nearly impossible to make mailin voting fraud free.
SCOTUS should have struck down Mailin voting schemes implimented by fiat by state governors in August or earlier.
Elections conditions are the product of LAW, not the whims of individual governors.
It is likely too late now. And worse than even the consequences for this election, we are likely to move further into more mailin voting in the future. The failure to act timely will result in widespread adoption of the most fraud ridden form of voting there is. We will trade convenience – which is NOT an asset in elections and moves us even closer to the evil of pure democracy where the rights of none of us are protected from the whim of the majority.
There is a snowballs chance in hell that SCOTUS wipes out the votes of millions of voters who casts votes by mail where the mailin voting was implimented illegitimately. But that is what they should do – regardless of whose ox it gores.
Courts – especially SCOTUS strive to avoid making difficult choices until they absolutely have to. But most of the time delay in ending unconstitutional actions or infringements on individual rights is irreversable. Courts – even SCOTUS rarely reverse on bad fovernment actions that are a fait acompli.
Regardless, your triage approach is relevant to the Trump or Biden campaigns – to the political parties, whose goal is to win the election.
But it is a disservice to citizens (including those that did not vote) who are entitled to an honest election – where the actual votes of eligable voters are all counted, and where efforts by a wide arrray of bad or suspicious actors to alter the vote are completely thwarted.
It is possible, it is not even all that difficult to have rules for elections that make fraud impossible.
But it is NOT possible to try to impose those rules after the fact.
To the greatest extent possible from the moment a voter is given a blank ballot to the moment that ballot is counted – NO ONE should be able to interact with the voter. Put simply voting must be by SECRET ballot.
Any system where a voter can interact with a third party from the time they are given a blank ballot until that ballot is counted, allows buying votes. With the amount of money spent on the 2020 campaign and the tiny margin of victory regardless of outcome – it should be clear that the incentive to buy votes is incredibly high.
We should never assume that the only vector for voting fraud is the political parties and their campaigns. The failure to limit the scope of government – the breadth of government involvement in our lives means that massive amounts of power and money are at stake with every election – and it is not just politicians that care about the outcome. If people are willing to contribute billions to an election, some of them are willing to commit election fraud.
Statement from Trump campaign saying it’s not over –
https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1324721222677155841
A lot of regular commenters have been noticeably absent. Are they home licking their wounds?
Understandable Steve. If Biden was losing I’d probably be here a lot less, but I had already decided I’d at least post an acknowledgement of the facts with good luck wishes for the winner and our country. I’d be back soon enough to fight the issues. Hopefully they’ll return, though I’ll be happy to remind some of them of their use of confident predictions as somehow winning points in the argument. They nnever were, even if they had proved true.
Thus far it is YOUR predictions and “facts” that have all proven false.
It is crystal clear at the moment that the claims that Biden was a shoe in were massive lies.
It is also crystal clear that the mailing voting scheme that democratic governors in swign states imposed on all of us by force places a giant cloud over the entire election.
We all had to listen to you rant about the small margin by which Trump won in 2020 – but there was no credible claim that Trump votes were actually cast by third parties. The best you could do was this ludicrous nonsense that stupid facebook adds from russia Mesmerized enough voters in swing states to vote for Trump – missing the fact that even if true – which it obviously is not, Persuasion, even by the Russian government is not election fraud.
But buying votes, manufacturing votes, counting votes absent oversite, and selecting ballots to include or exclude without strict adherance to clear rules are all forms of fraud.
Assuming that Biden actually wins – this election will have a REAL cloud over it forever. This election will replace the 1960 Nixon/Kennedy election in lore as the quintessential example of election fraud.
It is not going to require significant proof for the vast majority of people to beleive that.
You managed to sell the Collusion Dellusion to much of the american people. No effort at all will be needed for millions of voters to conclude this election was stolen. Put simply if they win Biden/Harris will have a cloud over them from day one.
I would note. I have been fighting against voter fraud since Bush/Gore in 2000. I do not care what parties ox gets gored.
I am sure there was lots of fraud in 2000. I was extremely anxious that the legal battles in FL would expand into competing claims of fraud from both sides. Bush v. gore was incredibly stressful, and threatened to tear the country apart – Bush v Gore will look like a kindergarten rowe compared to the pushback against a Biden victory.
At this point I hope that Trump manages to pull this off – not because I like Trump – but because claims of fraud by the Trump campaign are not plausible – not because they are more honest – but because the distribution of voters makes it far harder for Republicans to engage in fraud in statewide elections. When a republican picks up 100,000 votes over the course of a few days – it comes one at a time from precints all over the state. That is a logistically much harder fraud.
Regardless, I have never been particularly worried about the outcome of this election. Harris/Biden winning is a PUNISHMENT to the democratic party. It prevents the democratic party from fixing its internal problems – Democrats are enthralled to their left wing – much as republicans were to evangelicals – only even more so. Until they resolve that they will be less and less able to win elections. Trump has just managed to add about 20M voters to the republican party. These are voters who showed up to vote – even though nearly every information source they had told them their efforts were futile – and the result ? They very nearly won.
It is pretty clear right now that Florida is a RED state, The claims that Texas was blue or even Purple are ludicrously stupid.
Conversely Georgia, and Arizona MIGHT be becoming purple.
Ohio is clearly a RED state, Pennsylvania is purple or Pink and moving red, The entire Rust belt is pink moving to red.
The votes that Hillary/Obama lost in the rust belt – are NOT coming back.
Democrats had to spend $10B to get this result – more than twice what republicans spent.
Nearly all democratic money came from all the big donors that democrats claim are evil. Nearly all republican money came from the small individual donors that democrats claim are the only legitimate donors. The democratic party has become the corporate party it has claimed the republcans are. Republicans are slowly gaining minority votes – Republican votes from Blacks, Hispanics, Jews were historically high. You are not likely to get any of those votes back. Republicans almost always do better in off year elections – especially when democrats are in power. 2022 is likely to be a bloodbath for democrats. The Obama presidency lost democrats control of the house, the senate, myriads of governorships, and state legislatures – almost 4000 elected positions flipped to red from 2009-2016. If Harris/Biden are elected – expect that to continue. Republicans have held the Senate – that effectively neuters all the wet dreams that democrats talked about before the election – if you wish to pack the courts – you would need a GOP vote. If you wish to create new states – you would need a GOP vote, ending the fillibuster will require GOP votes even confirming judges will require GOP votes. control of the senate means the investigations of misconduct in the CIA/DOJ/FBI/…. all will continue.
It means that there will absolutely be an investigation into the Biden’s corrupt foreign practices. Harris/Biden’s election likely means the appointment of a special prosecutor before Trump leaves office. Biden will fact the same problems early in his presidency as Trump did – except for on difference – the Biden family is obviously corrupt.
As President Harris/Biden will have to deliver on their promises to the left – or we will see riots. And they have to do so without killing the economy. Harris/Biden have promised to deal with Covid – I do expect that covid may magically disappear as an issue.
Regardless, i will enjoy your hypocracy as in months to come you are echoing my arguments about Covid – because it is YOUR man that is “responsible” – alternately Biden could lock down the economy – impose a mask mandate. All things that will guarantee a huge 2020 backlash.
China will become YOUR problem – how you are going to manage with a president whose family is into china for Billions ?
I expect that Biden will try to revive the Iran deal – I sure hope so. The results both politically and otherwise will be disasterous.
The mideast – indeed the entire world is now a minefield for democrats. If you dismember Trump’s foreign policy the world becomes more volatile – and you will get the blame.
The mere election of Harris/Biden is likely to result in hordes of people trying to cross our southern border. A few stupid words by Obama resulted in nearly $1M unaccompanied minors trying to cross.
Regardless it is YOUT problem to handle now – and nothing you do will not piss off some voting block.
Let them in – and you can kiss the entire rust belt goodbye for good – don’t and you will end up with riots from the left.
I welcome the moment that President Biden announces sending the National Guard to Portland.
Regardless you have made lots of bad promises. If you keep them – they will fail disasterously. If you do not- the left will revolt.
End fracking or even just reduce it and the knock on effects are disasterous – again you lose the rust belt forever,
you also alter the balance of power in the mideast, europe, you empower Russia, China and Iran, and you disempower Europe and much of the rest of asia.
So Have fun!!!
We will all be watching. Ready to point out your hypocracy or failure – whichever you choose.
Concision is not your forte, John.
So what ?
You have not made a valid argument,
and you have not refuted any arguments.
You have not said anything that mattered.
Steve W, nope. We are just being patient. Like Turley, most are complaining about the wrong things. What I find amazing is the fact that hordes of Trump supporters are demanding the vote counting stop. Why? Turley should be more concerned about this instead of the pithy complaints about access when the observers already had plenty of access.
What about judge Sullivan’s ordering the USPS to look for missing ballots? We know Trump’s lackey postal general DeJoy has been trying to help trump cheat.
they aren’t demanding the counting to stop. you are either willfully lying or ignorant. they requested for a delay until the count could be monitored per the law.
the question you should be asking, but won’t, is why PA is fighting a judge’s ruling to allow monitoring.
I am demanding the counting stop.
All counting should always stop at the end of the day election day.
Very few places today can not count the entirety of the inperson vote during election day.
There is no reason that vote counting should have to continue beyond election day.
The more time that passes the more incentive for fraud.
“I am demanding the counting stop.”
Noted. But WGAF???
Ballots have *always* been counted after election day. And really the only answer is this: have an election month, the last day of which is what is now regarded as ‘election day’. Take two weeks or whatever, count every vote, and then release the results all on the same day in mid november.
The networks would never go for it though because they get huge ratings from the cliff hanger ness of it all in the same way they created trump for ratings.
Ranked choices and splitting electorals up by district like Maine and Nebraska might be an interesting twist as well.
We’ll get right on it John.
Boys, keep it down. John is freaking out.
Not freaking out.
I am pretty mellow over all of this.
I do not care about much beyond not hiding the facts.
If you wish to use political power to conduct elections in a fraudulent fashion – so long as you own what you are doing – fine by me.
I do not know – or care much whether Harris/Biden or Trump prevail.
Increasing numbers of people grasp the growing evidence of election fraud.
Despite control and censorship by social media and much of the MSM you can not stop that growing knowledge.
You have a further problem that the clear corruption of the Biden family – though technically not directly connected to the election still taints the perception of election fraud. It is not much of a leap to beleive that those who would abuse the power of their elected office would also try to steal an election – and visa versa. My suspicion is that the large body of election fraud that we are seeing is primarily individual – rather than organized. Individuals gaming the mailin ballot system. Not mostly candidates. But ultimately it does not matter. You are doing everything possible to paint yourselves as corrupt. You could have cleared the voter registration databases – as required by federal law and avoided this problem. you could have allowed normal elections to proceed as the law requires rather than impliment fraud ridden mailin elections by fiat. Most states in the country conducted elections in the same way as they did for decades – in person – and no one is challenging those results. You could have allowed election monitored as required by law and separated the ballots they challenged for further review as required by law. You could have stuck to the law regarding the handling of late ballots. But you did not.
It is crystal clear to most everyone that in nearly every state that is currently contested it is likely Trump would have won had you followed the rules in place at the time of the election – even bad rules and bad process – still would have resulted in a Trump victory.
Instead no rule. no law, could withstand your demand for a specific outcome – by any means necescary.
You may delude youself into beleiving that is not true – but millions of people are watching.
Will Harris/Biden ultimately prevail ? I do not know, nor do I care much.
But I do care to make sure that the stench emanating from your party is not covered up.
Fine – lets not stop the vote counting – lets not stop the election at all – lets just keep voting over and over and over again until we have all exhausted ourselves.
Or you could accept that elections must end – and they actually end at the end of the day of the election.
You say you just want to count the votes – but you assume that late votes are legitimate – it is well known that for every hour after the election is over – for every hour after some of the counts are known the inventives to add votes rises.
It is trivial to forge a postmark – and in myriads of instances you do not need to do so.
We have already seen what the CIA and FBI and Obama and Biden and the House Democrats would do to get rid of Trump.
Why should we beleive that they would not committ election fraud ?
Or what of the left wing loons at Google and Twitter and facebook – they are all willing to break rules violate norms to get their desired outcome.
Svelaz – people do not trust you – for good reason. You do not behave in a trustworthy manner.
If you want to be trusted – behave in a trustworthy manner.
Instead of trying to find every possible means to get the outcome you want.
Figure out how to do things morally, ethically, in a way that people will trust – even if doing so might not be in your personal interests.
What about Judge Sulivan – haven’t you grasped that he is a hack yet without ethics or morals ?
Regardless – Why should USPS act differently in an election than any other time ?
If you mailed a ballot late you should expect it not to count.
It is not the job of government to get you the outcome you want.
It is not the job of government to fascillitate fraud.
It is not the job of government to undo the mistakes that people make.
Leave the USPS alone – don;t do mail in elections and you do not have to worry about the USPS.
Don’t do mailin elections and you have far less fraud problems to worry about.
If you wanted your vote to count – the polls were open all day tuesday.
It is not hard to run an election without fraud. It requires rules – hard deadlines. It requires process that makes fraud harder.
Honestly, I am starting to believe all of this was simply done to foment sufficient chaos to distract and occupy so that Pelosi can take the reins, issue difficult to kill executive orders, and have a milieu in support of it. Though heaven forbid if that should come to pass she will act as though she pulled it right out of her behind ‘to save democracy’, it has likely been in the works for years, at least as an option.
The DNC is rotten to the core, and this’ll be the only real test we need to see about our rule of law. I live in a blue state, and though admittedly a small sample size – though not that small as it’s a midsize city – only three people I know voted anything but a straight red ticket. Something certainly stinks in ALL of the contested states.
Only in your fevered imagination is there a possibility that Pelosi becomes President.
Biden up in Pennsylvania. Ballgame, by 4 million votes.
You mean up by ~5.6 thousand. It could flip back, but not likely, given the counties where uncounted votes remain. Woohoo!
Sorry, just realized that you’re talking about the popular vote, not the vote difference in PA.
Decision Desk has called it for Biden –
https://results.decisiondeskhq.com/
Indeed, Winner take all EC state results have to go. Make them representative of the state’s vote and you have a much more fair system and one that will require candidates to campaign where the people are. Our biggest states are all ignored, unless they are competitive as Florida is.
“Indeed, Winner take all EC state results have to go. Make them representative of the state’s vote”
Then change the constitution.
“and you have a much more fair system”
You do not seem to grasp that “fair” is a meaningless term. Life is not fair, you idea of what is fair and mine are not the same.
A focus on individual liberty – which is inherently at odds with fairness have resulted in the most successful, peaceful and prosperous countries in the world.
While a fixation on “fairness” brought us the bloody french revolution – and myriads of bloody socialist regimes since.
When you fixate on fair – you inherently create conflict.
Why is your proposed way more “fair” ? It is just more reflective of the outcome you desire. It is not inherently more “fair” – because “fair” means little more than – the outcome I would like.
It is not fair that some of us are smarter than others.
It is not fair that some of us are more tallented than others.
It is not fair that some of us are more ambitious than others.
It is not fair that some of us are more attractive than others.
Life is not fair – get over it,
You can not fix that.
“and one that will require candidates to campaign where the people are.”
And why do we want that ?
While we do not have exactly the structure that our founders imposed – we are similar to it.
Our founders divided government so that each office was elected differently.
The house of representative was setup to address direct representation of the people.
Senators were appointed by their states, and presidents were elected by electors.
You want things differently, amend the constitution.
But cut the nonsense that there is some actually “fair” way to do this.
Our founders did not specifically envision the cities controlling the country,
But they did envision government in the control of a single minority and they designed a system to avoid that.
Your claim that you want something more “fair” is a really a claim to convert the entirety of country to a democracy – the most evil form of government there is.
Our biggest states are not ignored.
Nearly every state in the country is more populous than the original United States.
New York and California are essentially countries and are functioning as such.
They do not need the federal government for much – nor do most states.
The question is why does a federal govenrment that provides so little cost so much ?
Last night, Kevin McCarthy categorically stated “President Trump won this election.” Yesterday, Trump claimed victory, accused Democrats of massive voter fraud & vowed massive litigation. Trump has repeatedly accused Democrats of massive voter fraud far longer than Democrats accused Trump of Russian collusion.
4 years ago, Trump proclaimed himself the winner of the popular vote “if you deduct millions of illegal votes” by Hillary Clinton supporters. After taking office, Trump created a commission to purportedly expose massive Democratic voter fraud. The commission came up empty & quietly folded.
He accused millions of Democrats of voting multiple times wearing disguises in the 2018 midterms. For the past 4 months he accused Democrats of conspiring to commit massive voter fraud with mail-in ballots. He wanted Amy Coney Barrett quickly confirmed to give him a 6 to 3 Supreme Court advantage to overturn election results if Biden is declared the winner.
It now seems likely Trump will start & end his presidency with charges of massive voter fraud. Definitely deserves bonus points for consistency.
I think you have detected a pattern Race! Rick Reilly the sports writer documents numerous incidents of Trump’s cheating on the golf course. so this is SOP for him. Wh can’t see this guy for the low character liar he is? Apparently 48% of Americans.
Second hand an undocumented claims by Reilly, that the standard of lefties, pun intended.
“He wanted Amy Coney Barrett quickly confirmed to give him a 6 to 3 Supreme Court”
And Judge Barrett will be there long after Joe Biden is sent off to a SNF for his Dementia, Bill.
You should probably start buying lots of towels to soak up all of the Donkey blood in November of 2022.
All they are doing, is making the American people distrust the Government and their intelligence agencies even more. At this point, I am about to not give a shit anymore what goes on in this shithole of a 3rd world country. I am done. When the corrupt rule over you…you have lost.
Dude, we Democrats have had to sit under a lying incompetent scumbag who lost the vote for 4 years now. Suck it up. You don’t get your way all or even most of the time in a democracy.
The election officials seem intent on bringing our elections into disrepute. It seems they subscribe to the Harry Reid philosophy of “he didn’t win, did he?” To justify any means of getting the desired result.
They know that once the damage is done, it cannot be undone.
Ti, the “desired result” of the American people in 2000 and 2016 was not the GOP losers we were stuck with, and yet we suffered through them. Biden is up nationally by 4 million votes. Maybe this time the EC will stagger into electing the “desired result” and hurray for that.
Joe Friday ignores that US has an electoral college. “Lost the vote” indeed. You suck it up yourself.
Now is the time for the country to pull together.
Asine commentators like Silberman just exacerbate the conflict.
After the 2016 election, Trump claimed that 3,000,000 voters voted illegally and he set up a hand picked commission headed by Kris Kobach to investigate this.
Of course, the commission found nothing and quietly disbanded a year later. Why? Because the whole voter fraud thing was a figment of Trump’s imagination, and there was nothing to find. Much like when Trump claimed a hurricane was going to hit Alabama and much of the federal government was tasked to try, unsuccessfully, to back up Trump’s misinformation.
Same thing here. Trump cultists will scream and shout
about voter fraud. But there was not much of anything there. There was Republican voter suppression as there always is – closing polling places in minority neighborhoods, delaying the postal service – but nothing for Republicans to complain about.
+1 Republican. How soon they all forget that “Commision”
Yesterday, Kenosha for Trump sent supporters an email that reads: “Trump Victory urgently needs volunteers to make phone calls to Pennsylvania Trump supporters to return their absentee ballots.” Copy of the email –
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/06/trumps-wisconsin-campaign-asks-pennsylvania-cast-late-ballots/6182506002/
As they note, “Only votes cast by Nov. 3 are legal according to Pennsylvania and federal election laws. Trump himself has described any effort to vote after Tuesday as clear election fraud.”
Shouldn’t Trump condemn this email coming from some of his supporters and make it clear to his PA supporters that if they still have their absentee ballots, they should NOT return them now?
Biden has now taken the lead in Georgia. It’s looking more and more likely that Biden will be the President-elect.
Good question. If we lived in a country with a reputable media establishment, then by all means I would say your question is legitimate. But our media routinely pretends that Trump is not only a racist, but has refused to condemn racism. Even Chris Wallace asked that question in the first debate, with the presumption that Trump hadn’t done it in the past.
So, with that in mind, why bother?
Why should Trump bother doing the right thing?
What a sad question.
What “right thing” ?
If the left thought they actually won the election fairly – then why are they acting in secret ?
I will note that though the odds are not mostly favoring Trump right now – the one thing that would absolutely tip the scales is openly catching democrats at something completely egregious.
If it was bad enough that would open the entire election up to scrutiny.
Regardless, if you want Trump and the rest of us to accept the outcome of the election – you should have acted out in the open.
The more secretive you act the more guilty you look.
John, why are you regularly incapable of following an argument? If you followed the exchange, you’d know what the “right thing” is — Trump should condemn the email from his Kenosha for Trump supporters and make it clear to his PA supporters that if they still have their absentee ballots, they should NOT return them now.
Anon: “. . . they should NOT return them now.”
Why not? PA policy is to count all absentee or mail-in ballots received by 5 p.m. Friday. Why are you trying to dissuade Trump voters from doing exactly what PA argued for at the State and US Supreme Courts?
“John, why are you regularly incapable of following an argument? ”
You seem to beleive everyone else is required to make the same assumptions as you.
“If you followed the exchange, you’d know what the “right thing” is — Trump should condemn the email from his Kenosha for Trump supporters and make it clear to his PA supporters that if they still have their absentee ballots, they should NOT return them now.”
Why ? You want to claim that there is no fraud at all – there is always voter fraud, the only question is how large it is.
We need to fix our elections – specifically to avoid instances like these.
I do not expect Trump to respond to every tweet that you demand he respond to. Just as I do not expect Joe Biden to do the same.
I do not recall attacking Biden for what he has NOT said. But for what he HAS said.
Frankly my advice to any Trump supporter still holding a mailin or Absentee ballot would be fill them out and return them.
The PA supreme court has ruled that the state MUST count such ballots.
Apparently voter fraud is not against the law in PA.
Thje PA election is a real problem from Democrats – the PA supreme court admitted they were violating the PA Constitution in their most recent election ruling. Robertson delayed the case until after the election – but 4 justices have already telegraphed that it appears that the PA SCOTUS violated not merely the PA Constitution, but the US constitution. A ruling against PA could prove to be a mess.
The way vote counting is done it may be impossible to sort out the invaild ballots from the valid ones
I would remind you AGAIN – this is a mess that DEMOCRATS have made.
It is not republicans who pushed this mailin ballot nonsense on everyone.
It is not republicans who then made up the rules for how to run a mailin election on the fly.
John Say, if frogs had wings they wouldn’t be bumping their asses all the time and if you had a stitch of integrity you’d apologize for all your BS assurances of Trump winning. Until then get lost. You have no credibility.
why don’t you answer John with a plausible argument rather than resorting to personal attacks?
This is the @ND time you have cliamed that I said Trump would win.
You still have not backed that claim up.
Had I actually done so – I would owe no one an apology.
There is no integrity issue in a failed prediction.
But in fact I have NOT done so.
I have REPEATEDLY said that i HOPE the results are decisive – for the good of the country.
Otherwise we get the mess we have now.
My credibility is excellent – the polls were CLEARLY wrong. The left was CLEARLY wrong.
My expectation as things are right now is that Trump will likely lose – primarily because the courts have no remedy even where it is clear that fraud has occured, but there is no means to identify the fraudulent votes.
My Guess is the courts will eventually give PA to Trump – SCOTUS ordered the PA AG to separate all votes received after election day,
As a consequence those votes can be removed by court order.
But the claim in NV of the state allowing dead people and out of state residents to vote though likely easy to prove is impossible to remedy.
After the signature of a mail in ballot is verified the ballot is separated from the outer envolope. This is required – otherwise the ballot would not be secret. Once a ballot is separated from anything identifying the voter it is not possible to correct the fraud.
I have no idea what SCOTUS will do. It is not possible for them to know the effect of the fraudulent votes – even if they are proven – which is likely.
There is not time, and probably not sufficient authority for SCOTUS to order a new election in states where this is an issue.
About the only thing in their power is to throw this into the house of representatives.
And I do not see them doing that.
Regardless, democrats have a very serious problem coming.
It is likely that republican lawyers can prove that as many as 10,000 votes were cast by people who should not have been on voter registration rolls.
The constitution has no remedy for this.
But lots of voters will be VERY PISSED.
When you sew the wind – you reap the whirlwind.
Lorenzo, Wallace gave him a slow softball down the middle and he couldn’t – should say, didn’t want to – handle it. Do you think it’s an accident that the racist alt-right supports him? In any case, he’s the president with a greater responsibility than anyone to remain above it and act in the national interest, not his own. Do you think he’s the 1st president who thought the “press” – that’s a large category – was unfair to him?
he didn’t want to handle it because it’s akin to ‘when did you stop beating your wife’
if you can’t see that, i don’t know what to tell you.
and it isn’t just that he feels the media is against him. for years, the media promoted a hoax of Russia colluding with Trump to determine the outcome of the election, then later refused to even ask the most basic questions about Hunter Biden’s financial dealings as they relate to his father.
the media has been nothing but a propaganda machine for years against trump. it’s one thing to call him out, but quite another to interpret everything he says and does in the most negative possible interpretation and declare that to be the most likeliest. and, as i said before, they even go beyond that and still lie and say he hasn’t denounced racism, call him a racist, etc.
not liking trump doesn’t mean you have to be blind to what the media has become.
Antifa supports democrats – is that no accident ?
Richard Spensor endorsed Biden.
White Supremecists tend to be socialist – I know that is beyond you ken.
While that Wallace question was not the worst – and Trump actually answered it fine – the only “mistake” he made was parroting Wallaces words. A better answerr would have been is answer from 2016 to Wallace amplified.
Something on the order of “Chris – you know better, I answered that question when you asked it in 2016, I have answered it hundreds of times as president, you KNOW that I do not support white supremecy, this is “fake news” and shame on you for pushing it”.
Regardless the Wallace question was also a loaded question – Wallace asked Trump to direct them to “stand down”.
That is like the “have you stopped beating your wife” question – you can not ask others to stand down without implying they listen to you.
I would further note that there has been no white supremecist bad acts during the entire Trump presidency.
You are scared to death of the boogey man while actually violent actors on the left attempt to destroy the country.
“Shouldn’t Trump condemn this email coming from some of his supporters and make it clear to his PA supporters that if they still have their absentee ballots, they should NOT return them now?”
Of course. Just as Biden should discourage the counting of all illegitimate ballots.
“Biden has now taken the lead in Georgia. It’s looking more and more likely that Biden will be the President-elect.”
Agreed. But Gore did not concede until 13 December 2020, after a Supreme Court ruling. How much time should Biden give Trump to concede in his victory speech today?
Jonathan, Gore v Bush was in no way comparable. Cut the crap. I explain why – as if it wasn’t obvious – in another response to you earlier.
You are correct Bush V. Gore was no way comparable,
In B v G – Gore was seeking to draw out an inevitable loss in the faint hope of finding several hundred more votes.
He was abusing the legal system and the ultimate result of the recount lost him votes rather than gained them.
While there was a conflict over procedural irregularities – which Bush won, there was not much in the way of fraud claims – thought there was likely real fraud going on.
What is happening here is far more serious.
At the very top of things we have a mess because in most states in the country there are no laws legitimizing mailin voting.
But the courts erred months ago by not directing governors to stop illegitimate mailin voting schemes without authorizing laws.
I do not see the courts changing that now. At the same time the courts are aware of the propensity toward fraud of mail in ballots – and democratic courts had zero problems throwing out hundreds of thousands of votes int he 2020 primary.
I hope that Trump manages to win without having to go to court. That is the easiest way to put and end to all this.
The fraud allegations are less consequential – if Biden still loses, They are a problem for another day.
But absent a compelling victory by Biden – which is not possible, any Biden victory likely ends up in courts and that will be a mess.
Regardless YOU – the left have sown the wind, you get to reap the whirlwind.
You do not seem to grasp that it does not matter whether you win in court.
You have behaved dishonestly – and LOTS of people know it.
I don’t assume that Biden will make a victory speech until he has over 270 EC votes. We don’t know when that will be. Trump should concede immediately unless he has a valid legal challenge that makes the results uncertain. So far, his campaign has been filing garbage cases that are being quickly dismissed by judges.
Anonymous:
“I don’t assume that Biden will make a victory speech until he has over 270 EC votes.”
Nor do I.
“We don’t know when that will be.”
Today is likely. Not certified results, of course.
“Trump should concede immediately unless he has a valid legal challenge that makes the results uncertain. So far, his campaign has been filing garbage cases that are being quickly dismissed by judges.”
That’s unnecessarily polarizing and it’s dismissive of an unprecedented Covid-19 mail-in ballot picture. Why wouldn’t it be more realistic, more unifying and more Presidential for Biden to expect Trump and his supporters to take this all the way to the Supreme Court?
Take what to the SC Jonathan? The mail-ins being counted in Pennsylvania are not being challenged. The ones being challenged are not yet being counted and Biden just went up there without them.
Considering that PA threw out election observers – you know all of this HOW ?
Considering that you have been wrong about everything for the past 4 years – you are trustworthy for what reason ?
John, I’m pointing at the scoreboard. I didn’t make predictions, you did. You were wrong.
“John, I’m pointing at the scoreboard. I didn’t make predictions, you did. You were wrong.”
You keep claiming that I predicted an easy Trump victory – yet you have provided no evidence of that.
What I have said repeatedly for MONTHS, is that I HOPE that the results of the election are decisive – specifically to avoid the mess we currently have. That HOPE included the possibility of a decisive Biden win. Muddy election results are extremely dangerous.
Elections are the foundations for the legitimacy of government. Every outcome in which the results are not crystal clear – anytime we have to rely on individuals – election officials, courts, etc. legitimacy declines.
I would further note that I have been wrong about many things in my life – though this was not one of those.
There is no consequence for hope that proves false.
The only consequence for False predictions is reduced trust in future predictions.
Errors in facts are more serious, but only diminish your credibility.
False accusations are moral errors that come at the expense of your integrity.
I deeply regret that the outcome of this election was not decisive – regardless of who won.
That is bad for all of us. But that is neither a moral, factual or prediction failure. It has no personal consequence.
Those of you who bought the polls have demonstrated bad judgement.
Those of you who made and/or continue to make false moral accusations have no integrity.
Take what to the SC? If the cases are garbage like the ones so far, why would the SC accept a case rather than let the lower court ruling stand?
Apparently you are clueless.
If large number of Trump supporters openly cast late ballots – that makes it easier for the courts to toss ALL late ballots.
Regardless, check your hypocracy.
Yesterday I saw 4 billbords that said “Count all the Votes” – if you really want to count late votes – lets just keep counting forever,
Lets just continue the election for months and months until everyone is exhausted.
If the left is going to openly cheat – why should republicans in Pennsylvania not do the same ?
You do not seem to grasp that when you play this idiot game of trying to make up the rules as you go – to get the outcome you want.,
That you encourage those you hate to do the same.
Anon: “Shouldn’t Trump condemn this email coming from some of his supporters and make it clear to his PA supporters that if they still have their absentee ballots, they should NOT return them now?”
Somebody is very confused here. PA already counts absentee and mail-in ballots that are *received* by 5 p.m. today (Friday, Oct. 6). That’s their official policy. That was the (in)famous SC decision last week.
Sam, you’re the one who seems to be confused. PA counts legal ballots received by today. If someone submits a ballot after Election Day, it is not a legal ballot.
Anon: Except the topic of the Kenosha email (and corresponding story) is *absentee* ballots. Those require only a signature and date, and can be dropped off in person. If Susie is sitting on an *absentee” ballot that she signed and dated (before the voting deadline), then presumably she can legally drop it off before 5 p.m. Friday.
But in this environment, who knows. My main point is that the Kenosha email is not as ludicrous as some seem to think.
Actually it is YOU that is confused.
While you are correct that a ballot cast after election day is illegitmate.
Sam is correct the latest PA SCOTUS decision DOES NOT CARE.
The vote is to be counted based on when it is RECEIVED, not when it is cast.
The PA supreme court admitted that violated the PA constitution.
This decision already went to the US supreme court were Roberts kicked it until after the election.
But there are already 4 votes to overturn that and if either roberts changes his mind or Barrett votes with the other 4 justices.
Only PA votes RECEIVED by election day can be counted.
PA has already been instructed to keep votes received after election day separate.
It is near certain that Trump will eventually prevail in PA.
People allowed into the vote counting rooms could bring cameras and alter the real truth. Polish influence or Pollachs. Or Russian interference. Or Trumpeter interference.
Professor Turley, a Fox Contributor, lending his good offices to such a disreputable organization. I hope Fox is paying you a lot of money. Let’s see if Turley EVER takes issue with the lies spouted by Hannity, Ingraham, Carlson or frequent quest Dinesh D’souza (my college classmate). I’m not holding my breath. Disgraceful!
Nice argument. Turley appears on FOX, so his column is discredited.
THAT is why our country is so divided. Not Trump, but those who hate Trump and the right so much that they have demonized them repeatedly and to the point that their ONLY contribution to discourse is to discredit those they oppose rather an evaluating their ideas.
Turley continues his water carrying fro the Trump campaign by recklessly stoking so far insignificant claims of irregularities in the election. Even if true – a big if – none of them rise to the level of concern that the wrong man is winning the election (he’s up 4 million nationally). That of course is the position of the apparent loser who’s only path forward is manipulating his followers to somehow overturn the results. This is dangerous and solopsistic BS which Turley is willingly lending his name to. Shame on him.
Precisely, Joe Friday. Turley has not condemned in the strongest terms Trump’s delegitimization of the election as a fraud and denounced his utterly outrageous claim that the Democrats are stealing the election. We shall see if he dares to do so publicly on Fox or keeps his liberal opinions to himself in order to stay in the good graces of his paymaster.
it’s a fact that mail in ballots have historically been far more susceptible to fraud than in person voting. but since they have been such a small portion of the vote, they haven’t had as much influence.
both sides know this quite well and its why one side wanted more mail in ballots and the other didn’t. now we have an election where mail in ballots are the deciding factor.
if you want to pretend that’s not a concern, that’s up to you.
lastly, if the left was interested in fair elections, they would support voter id requirements when voting and have an authentication process for mail in ballots as well. One of the Dakotas has such a system.
There is a particularly large problem in PA – there is no law authorizing Mailin ballots (as with many other states), But PA is a VoterID state. Not only are mailin ballots illegitimate because they are unauthorized – but in PA mailin ballots circument the entire VoterID law.
Unfortunately I do not expect even Scotus to through them out.
If they were going to do so they needed to act this summer.
But that does not mean they will not act at all.
Signature verification is the closest thing to voter ID that exists on a mail in ballot.
SCOTUS could reject all ballots where signatures were not verified.
It could also reject all votes received after election day.
The big issue is that it is unlikely that SCOTUS will act at all If Trump has to flipp several states and large numbers of votes.
No matter how large the fraud is the left will get away with it, if clearing it requires a decision like invalidating mailin voting in states that have not legislatively authorized it.
In the end the real likely outcome is that Biden/Trump 2020 will replace Nixon/Kennedy 1960 as the most fraudulent election ever.
Regardless, if democrats wanted people to beleive they had won legitimately – they would be acting in the open.
There are myriads of problems with mailin ballots. Fraud is not the only one. They are also massively prone to error.
Votes are easily lost or spoiled. The process is more complex, and mistakes are made.
It is a bad system.
you keep bringing up the national popular vote to support your argument, but it does very much the opposite.
mail in ballots have a history of greater fraud than in person voting.
biden is going to win. you should want people to believe he won fairly. seriously. i hope there is nothing terribly drastic going on, but i would feel much better if these issues were investigated and litigated and shown to be fair and accurate.
if biden was smart and confident that he won fairly, he would be asking for the same thing – to get the counts right so he can govern as a potus who won a fair election. that he isn’t doing this can only raise further doubt on the process and his credibility.
+10
Turley like myriads of other old school liberals have been slowly moving away from Democrats. Because democrats are increasingly owned by lunatic left and increasingly uninterested in the rule of law.
The left continues to red pill their own best and brightest.
Jeffrey:
I watch and read CNN and Fox. Both have their biases, both have their strengths.
Fox does well in the ratings:
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2020-11-04/fox-election-2020-viewership-trump-biden
Don’t dismiss its viewers!
Jonathan Maxson, Ratings? Please. I’m concerned about facts. I’m sure there is nothing I can say to a Fox viewer to change their opinion. All I can do is to pity them. Turley is far too intelligent to fall for the false narrative of Fox, but presumably, he could not find employment on MSNBC or CNN where he belongs.
Jeffrey’s comments illustrate why this country is so divided.
usual nonsense. those you disagree with are stupid and the people who appear on Fox must not have any other choices.
You vainglorious twit.
+10
Do you have any facts ?
Gobs of ad hominem are worthless.