Professor Calls For The Elimination of the Republican Party and Purging “Nazified” People From Congress, Universities, and “Regular Jobs”

The media has been airing discussion of hosts and leading figures like Katie Couric on “deprogramming ” Trump supporters or treating Trump supporters as a cult, including a CNN interview with an actual “cult expert.”  Since that would include over 70 million Trump voters, the hyperbolic language can be dismissed as just more examples of our rage-filled political environment. After all, a few days after the election, a law professor declared that even questioning the Biden electoral victory was tantamount to being a holocaust denier. One professor however has taken this call even further in declaring such supporters are worse than the Nazis and heralding the need for the same type of treatment seen with the Nuremberg trials, including the apparent elimination of the Republican Party. Smith College Professor Loretta Ross, who teaches women’s and gender studies, rejected calls for unity and instead called for punitive action against supporters in Congress, universities, and “regular jobs.”

In an article in CounterPunch Ross declares that there can be no unity with Trump supporters and that the Republican Party itself cannot continue to exist:

“Republicans are no longer entitled to exist as a legitimate political party because this authoritarian backlash has been building since new Civil Rights laws were passed in 1964 and 1965 in response to white racist violence captured on TV that required the National Guard to quell. Then-President Lyndon Johnson predicted that most white people would flee the Democratic Party to join the pro-segregationist, anti-feminist, and anti-gay revanchist political movement of George Wallace, Richard Nixon, and Ronald Reagan. Every undemocratically selected Republican president since the 1960s (by an electoral college designed to be disenfranchising) has failed to repudiate this neo-fascist wing of their party.

I’m through giving Republicans the benefit of the doubt after 50 years.”

She is not alone in that view. Washington Post columnist Jennifer Rubin recently declared on a television program (with various media figures who made no objection) that “We have to collectively, in essence, burn down the Republican Party. We have to level them because if there are survivors, if there are people who weather this storm, they will do it again.”  Notably, such language is similar to a call recently by James Comey and is not viewed as incitement. Rubin also called for a blacklisting of Trump supporters from universities and the media, a call that has been made by Democratic figures in Congress as well as academics: “I think it’s absolutely abhorrent that any institution of higher learning, any news organization, or any entertainment organization that has a news outlet would hire these people.”

Professor Ross shows no concern for free speech or academic freedom as she calls for identifying and condemning anyone who is viewed as complicit with Trump over the last four years so that they can be “treated with the same public condemnation that the Nazis received after World War II.”

What is unnerving is that such views are now common on the Internet and increasingly common at universities. Many professors who send me such columns admit that they are afraid to speak out. There is a rising level of intolerance at universities. In over 30 years of teaching, I have never witnessed the level of intimidation at colleges and universities that we have today. Indeed, these columns are meant to normalize such calls for curtailing free speech and academic freedom.  It is an effort not just to retaliate but to use the chilling effect of such threats to silence others (including effectively barring opposing viewpoints from being published). Rather than denounce such views an inimical to our intellectual mission, some professors are rushing to prove their own bona fides by denouncing colleagues or dismissing free speech values. They are afraid and I cannot blame for that fear. However, silence or passivity in the face of such calls will come at too high a price for our colleges and our country.

Just a year ago, Professor Ross was featured on MSNBC for her stand against cancel culture when she said “We’ve become too intolerant and too unforgiving of mistakes, unless we make them. And then, we only actually want to forgive the mistakes of the people we already know. We need to have a more forgiving society.”

That message appears to now be discarded in favor of open intolerance in the cause of tolerance. As for calls from people like President Joe Biden for reconciliation and healing, Ross balked at the very notion. She calls for Trump supporters to be denied jobs, media opportunities, publishing contracts, and all other opportunities. What is particularly chilling is her use of a statement from philosopher Karl Popper: “In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance.” Thus, intolerance of opposing viewpoints is now tolerance. It is that easy.

This blog was updated.

339 thoughts on “Professor Calls For The Elimination of the Republican Party and Purging “Nazified” People From Congress, Universities, and “Regular Jobs””

  1. Well, bless Biden’s heart. Amidst his superior claims of wanting to heal and unify the nation, he’s trying to take credit for the Covid Vaccine rollout.

    “Biden pledged to get 100 million Americans vaccinated in his first 100 days in office. This sounds like an admirable goal, but it’s utterly meaningless, considering the U.S. is already on pace to do this thanks to the efforts of the Trump administration.

    To make this seem like it will be Biden’s accomplishment, CNN has now reported that administration officials are claiming they inherited “no coronavirus vaccine distribution plan to speak of from the Trump administration.” Nowhere in the article does CNN acknowledge that more than 17 million vaccines have already been administered and that nearly one million vaccines are already being administered per day.

    CNN’s claim that Biden inherited no vaccine distribution plan is also demonstrably false, considering the fact that 36 million vaccines have already been distributed to states and the distribution strategy is publicly available.

    Administration of the vaccine has already increased since it was first made available. Bloomberg has a vaccine tracker that shows an average of 912,497 doses per day were administered last week.”

    And his followers just eat it up.

    1. And I betcha people can figure out how to get stuff from point A to point B without the federal government or the President telling them what or how to do it.

        1. Joe Friday,
          Every year, somehow hospitals and clinics and even places like Walmart and Rite Aid can figure out how to get the flu or shingles vaccine out to everyone who wants one.

    2. ““Biden pledged to get 100 million Americans vaccinated in his first 100 days in office. This sounds like an admirable goal, but it’s utterly meaningless, considering the U.S. is already on pace to do this thanks to the efforts of the Trump administration.”

      Biden, the Fauxresident of the WH, will be lauded for the production of a vaccine he had nothing to do with. In fact the left and the media laughed at President Trump when he said he would have the vaccine out in a year. The Democrat Congress did nothing to help Trump’s efforts and tried their best to make sure Trump didn’t succeed.

      My understanding from another article is that only about ⅓ of the vaccines shipped to the states has been used. The Fauxresident of the WH is talking about 200 million doses, but the US has 400 million doses of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines in the pipeline while J&J’s vaccine will be out in March.

      1. Trump didn’t get out a vaccine–scientists did. His delusions of grandeur cause him to take credit for this science, but he doesn’t deserve it. And, at this point, there is only emergency use authorization. None of these vaccines has been fully studied, and, at this point, all that can be said is that the vaccine makes it likely that the recipient wouldn’t get severely ill–he or she can still get COVID, and can still pass it on to others. Democrats did nothing to stop or hinder Trump from anything involving vaccines, and repeatedly asked him to invoke the Defense Production Act to get money and supplies to the states to help with administering vaccines. Trump refused.

        The Moderna vaccine caused a rash of anaphylactic reactions at a health care provider immunization site. It’s not clear why, but I wouldn’t count on the Moderna vaccine being ready for mass roll out until the problem is resolved.

        1. “Trump didn’t get out a vaccine–scientists did.”

          Trump opened the doors wide enough so that all the companies and scientists could quickly move through in less than one year something you and your friends laughed at when he said it.

          He succeeded. You and your friends failed. You now have a Faux-resident in the WH that is already doing things that will cause American citizens to lose their jobs or be paid less. Biden doesn’t even know what is going on. Biden promised 100 million shots in the first 100 days. We have 200 million shots in the pipeline and J&J will likely be approved by March.

          I only read your first sentence because I find no merit in what you have to say.

          1. Trump did nothing. What “doors” did he “open..wide enough”? The scientists who figured out the genetic code for the protein on the COVID spikes sequenced the gene and replicated it, and those who figured out how to put in to a .5 cc form for injection and how to manufacture the vaccine in quantities did the rest. After that, Trump’s administration flopped badly–sending out vials to states with no comprehensive guidelines for administration, no funds for extra supplies, distribution sites, plan for administration or other help. That’s why doses are being wasted, appointments are being cancelled, and no one knows what’s going on.

            No one laughed at vaccine production–that’s just another of the lies they tell on Fox, because there’s only EMERGENCY use authorization. None of the vaccines has been thoroughly studied, because that takes years. They don’t explain to you that while it doesn’t take years to come up with a vaccine, it does take years to study all of the possible side effects, long-term effects and efficacy for final approval. No one knows what the long-term effects of the vaccine will be because it takes years of testing to determine many factors, including whether it causes health problems later on, how long immunity lasts, how effective the immunity is, whether a booster will be needed, and so forth. There was a study in Israel that disputes Pfizer’s claims–that study found only 33 1/3% effectiveness, instead of 95% like Pfizer claims. Long-term studies will show what the true facts are, but to take a victory lap for the vaccines and to credit Trump with somehow deserving credit is ludicrous. I don’t know what “pipeline” you are referring to, but Trump’s administration is responsible for lying about having second doses being held in abeyance for those who received the first round. Azar flat out lied about that. And, the promised number of doses has never materialized, either.

            You look foolish when you repeat Fox News lies about Biden not knowing what’s going on. You Fox News disciples show that you are the ones who don’t know what’s going on. You don’t even understand the difference between emergency use authorization and final approval for a product regulated by the FDA following thorough study. Don’t forget that your fat hero pressured the FDA for emergency use authorization for hydroxychloroquine, only to have that approval rescinded when studies proved it was not only ineffective, it killed more people than if they hadn’t taken the drug.

            1. “Trump did nothing. What “doors” did he “open..wide enough”? ”

              Once again I stopped reading after the first sentence.

              Let us assume you are a fantastic mechanic and know everything there is about building a car.

              Go ahead and create an international company that manufactures and sells cars.

              Part of the proof that Trump opened the doors is that you, almost the entire left, the media and a lot of other people laughed at him when he said he could get it done in less than a year. He has the vision. You have nothing.

              1. Trump doesn’t run a drug company, a vaccine development laboratory, or any other health care business. He knows nothing about virology, epidemiology, immunology, public health or much else that matters. He certainly knows nothing about medicine, as proven by the hydroychloroquine episode, but which proved to be yet another example of his massive ego and inability to admit he was wrong. He personally had nothing whatsoever to do with development of the vaccine–that was done by scientists who went to work on identifying and sequencing the genes of the spike protein right away as soon as COVID was determined to be a novel virus that had the potential for worldwide spread. You don’t seem to understand that the vaccine isn’t “done” yet–it is still being tested. Trump got nothing “done”. Trump has no “vision” other than delusions of being important and entitled to attention and praise. He had to keep showing up and controlling press briefings on the virus, which did nothing but reaffirm that he had no clue what was going on, but had a pathological need to be in front of cameras and hog the spotlight. Trump didn’t set up or equip the laboratories, hire the scientists, provide the equipment or supplies or do anything that led to the discovery of the spike protein, nor did he have anything whatsoever to do with setting up or running the clinical trials. HHS did order millions of doses, with our taxpayer money, but that’s about all. Trump made the entire COVID problem much worse by lying about the risk, trying to muzzle the CDC doctors, lying about when it would be under control, and he, like you, proved he doesn’t understand the limitations of the vaccination–none of the drug companies claims it provides complete immunity–only that you are less likely to get critically ill if you get COVID. However, even after vaccinated, you can still spread it to others, so social distancing, masks, etc must continue. The vaccine is not a panacea, but Trump’s public comments misled people into believing that it is. Your analogy makes no sense. Yet, as a disciple, you still believe.

                1. “Zinc sulphate added to hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin associates with a decrease in mortality or transfer to hospice among patients who do not require ICU level of care and an increased likelihood to be discharged directly home from the hospital. In light of study limitations, this study alone is not sufficient to guide clinical practice. Rather, these findings suggest a potential role for zinc sulphate in COVID-19 patients and support the initiation of future randomized clinical trials investigating zinc sulphate against COVID-19.”


            2. “Don’t forget that your fat hero pressured the FDA for emergency use authorization for hydroxychloroquine, only to have that approval rescinded when studies proved it was not only ineffective, it killed more people than if they hadn’t taken the drug.”

              Would have helped if they hadn’t used such a high dose, used it with less severely ill people, or maybe even used it with zinc since it’s mode of action is as a zinc ionophore. Where is the body supposed to get enough zinc to function if a person is deficient, as elderly, obese, and diabetic people often are–from what little they have stored in bones and tissues and muscles.

              1. Hydroxychloroquine suppresses the immune response, which is why it is used with rheumatoid arthritis and lupus, which are both autoimmune conditions. One way COVID kills people is by stimulating the immune system to go into overdrive, which can cause the lungs to fill with fluid, making breathing difficult, and sometimes resulting in intubation and mechanical ventilation. Now, doctors use Dexamethosone, an inexpensive corticosteroid, which works better to control immune overstimulation, which helps to avoid intubation and ventilation and saves lives. Trump had no business pushing for hydroxychloroquine because he has no idea about medical matters, and his claim that it was a miracle cure led to lupus and RA patients being unable to get their Hydroxychloroquine. Because he just can’t shut up or admit when he’s wrong, he trotted out the “demon sperm” doctor to back up his claims. He had no business making recommendations about treatment for COVID and should have deferred to knowledgeable physicians, but his ego wouldn’t allow this. There was a spotlight and he was going to get in it, and he was never going to be wrong. He was going to be the big hero. On top of that, he lied to the American people about the risk of COVID, how long the pandemic would last, the availability of tests, and just about everything else, including misleading people into believing that the vaccine will solve all of our problems and that everything will go back to normal immediately. How many times did he predict that things would return to normal very soon, by summer, by fall, how many times did he claim that the end was “just around the corner”? Those are lies. Studies at this point show that vaccines will reduce the severity of an infection if you get COVID, which would reduce the number of hospitalizations and deaths, all of which is good, and we hope that long-term studies will prove that this protection lasts for years or even a lifetime, but studies are incomplete.

                1. “Hydroxychloroquine suppresses the immune response, which is why it is used with rheumatoid arthritis and lupus, which are both autoimmune conditions. One way COVID kills people is by stimulating the immune system to go into overdrive, which can cause the lungs to fill with fluid, making breathing difficult”

                  Plenty of other micronutrients and vitamins are involved in the lung (and other dysfunction), particularly magnesium. What follows is a focus on zinc and the mode of action of HCQ and CQ (zinc ionophores) regarding cytokine production, and, most particularly on the effect of zinc in the pathways noted as affected by the modes of action of these two drugs.

                  Modes of Action for HCQ and CQ:
                  “These drugs [hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine] interfere with lysosomal activity and autophagy, interact with membrane stability and alter signalling pathways and transcriptional activity, which can result in inhibition of cytokine production and modulation of certain co-stimulatory molecules.”

                  Nat Rev Rheumatol. 2020 Mar;16(3):155-166. doi: 10.1038/s41584-020-0372-x. Epub 2020 Feb 7. “Mechanisms of action of hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine: implications for rheumatology.” Eva Schrezenmeier 1, Thomas Dörner 2 3

                  Signaling pathways:
                  “Zinc ions are involved in regulating intracellular signaling pathways in innate and adaptive immune cells. Zinc homeostasis is largely controlled via the expression and action of zinc “importers” (ZIP 1-14), zinc “exporters” (ZnT 1-10), and zinc-binding proteins.”

                  Nutrients. 2017 Dec; 9(12): 1286. “Zinc as a Gatekeeper of Immune Function” Inga Wessels, Martina Maywald, and Lothar Rink*

                  Transcriptional activity:
                  “Zinc is an essential trace element that is crucial for growth, development, and the maintenance of immune function. Its influence reaches all organs and cell types, representing an integral component of approximately 10% of the human proteome, and encompassing hundreds of key enzymes and transcription factors.”

                  Adv Nutr. 2019 Jul 1;10(4):696-710. doi: 10.1093/advances/nmz013. “The Role of Zinc in Antiviral Immunity” Scott A Read 1 2, Stephanie Obeid 3, Chantelle Ahlenstiel 3, Golo Ahlenstiel 1 2

                  Cytokine production
                  “only zinc aspartate and rapamycin were capable of suppressing the proliferation and Th1 (IFN-γ), Th2 (IL-5), and Th17 (IL-17) cytokine production of pre-activated T cells. This data suggest that zinc aspartate has the capacity to suppress proliferation and cytokine production of pre-activated human T cells in vitro. Thus, administration of zinc aspartate may have beneficial effects on T cell-mediated autoimmune diseases.”

                  J Trace Elem Med Biol. 2018 Sep;49:86-90. doi: 10.1016/j.jtemb.2018.05.003. Epub 2018 May 4. “Zinc aspartate suppresses proliferation and Th1/Th2/Th17 cytokine production of pre-activated human T cells in vitro” Karina Guttek 1, et al.

                  “Zn deficiency affects cells involved in both innate and adaptive immunity at the survival, proliferation and maturation levels. These cells include monocytes, polymorphonuclear-, natural killer-, T-, and B-cells. T cell functions and the balance between the different T helper cell subsets are particularly susceptible to changes in Zn status. While acute Zn deficiency causes a decrease in innate and adaptive immunity, chronic deficiency increases inflammation. During chronic deficiency, the production of pro-inflammatory cytokines increases, influencing the outcome of a large number of inflammatory diseases, including rheumatoid arthritis.”

                  Autoimmun Rev. 2015 Apr;14(4):277-85. doi: 10.1016/j.autrev.2014.11.008. Epub 2014 Nov 24. “Zinc and its role in immunity and inflammation” Paola Bonaventura 1, Giulia Benedetti 1, Francis Albarède 2, Pierre Miossec 3

                  Regarding Lupus and Autoimmunity:
                  “Plasma cytokines levels of tumor necrosis factor (TNF)-α, interferon (IFN)-γ, interleukin (IL)-1β, IL- 4, IL-6, IL-10, IL-12 and IL-17 were measured and cytokines profiles were computed. IL-6, IL-12, IL-17, IFN-γ and IL-10 levels were significantly higher in SLE, while IL-4 was lower in SLE. The Th1/Th2 and Th1+Th17/Th2 profiles were significantly higher in SLE than in healthy controls”

                  Immunol Cell Biol. 2017 Oct;95(9):824-831. doi: 10.1038/icb.2017.53. Epub 2017 Jun 26. “Cytokines in systemic lupus erythematosus: far beyond Th1/Th2 dualism lupus: cytokine profiles” Poliana Macedo Guimarães 1, et al.

                  “the effect of zinc aspartate was examined in mice with experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis (EAE), an animal model of Multiple Sclerosis (MS) with a Th1/Th17 T cell-mediated immunopathogenesis. Zinc aspartate suppressed proliferation as well as IL-2, IL-10 and IL-17 production in stimulated human T cells and mouse splenocytes. Importantly, administration of a medium range dose of 30 μg/day zinc aspartate [1.5 mg/kg body weight (BW)] in a therapeutic manner led to a significant reduction of the clinical severity of the EAE during the first relapse of the disease. A lower zinc aspartate dose (6 μg/day, 0.3 mg/kg BW) had no significant therapeutic effect on the severity of the EAE, while administration of higher zinc aspartate amounts (120 μg/day, 6 mg/kg BW) led to more severe disease. Taken together, our data suggest that zinc aspartate can modulate activation, proliferation and cytokine production of effector T cells in vitro and in vivo and that activated autoreactive T cells may be potential therapeutic targets of tightly controlled zinc supplementation in autoimmune diseases like MS.”

                  Biometals. 2012 Jun;25(3):529-39. doi: 10.1007/s10534-012-9532-z. Epub 2012 Feb 19. “Zinc aspartate suppresses T cell activation in vitro and relapsing experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis in SJL/J mice” Diana Stoye 1, et al.

                  HCQ/CQ aren’t the only drugs beneficial for the early treatment of COVID-19. Ivermectin looks promising, too. Of course, making sure a person isn’t deficient in these important micronutrients, vitamins, and other antioxidants sure looks helpful, too.

                  “Adequate intakes of vitamins and trace elements are required for the immune system to function efficiently. Micronutrient deficiency suppresses immune functions by affecting the innate T-cell-mediated immune response and adaptive antibody response, and leads to dysregulation of the balanced host response. This increases the susceptibility to infections, with increased morbidity and mortality. In turn, infections aggravate micronutrient deficiencies by reducing nutrient intake, increasing losses, and interfering with utilization by altering metabolic pathways. Insufficient intake of micronutrients occurs in people with eating disorders, in smokers (both active and passive), in individuals with chronic alcohol abuse, in patients with certain diseases, during pregnancy and lactation, and in the elderly. With aging a variety of changes are observed in the immune system, which translate into less effective innate and adaptive immune responses and increased susceptibility to infections. Antioxidant vitamins and trace elements (vitamins C, E, selenium, copper, and zinc) counteract potential damage caused by reactive oxygen species to cellular tissues and modulate immune cell function through regulation of redox-sensitive transcription factors and affect production of cytokines and prostaglandins. Adequate intake of vitamins B(6), folate, B(12), C, E, and of selenium, zinc, copper, and iron supports a Th1 cytokine-mediated immune response with sufficient production of proinflammatory cytokines, which maintains an effective immune response and avoids a shift to an anti-inflammatory Th2 cell-mediated immune response and an increased risk of extracellular infections.”

                  Ann Nutr Metab. 2007;51(4):301-23. doi: 10.1159/000107673. Epub 2007 Aug 28. “Contribution of selected vitamins and trace elements to immune function” Eva S Wintergerst 1, Silvia Maggini, Dietrich H Hornig

    3. You’ve been watching Tucker again, Karen, and it shows. Trump left NO distribution plan–i.e., a specific plan or recommendations for priortizing the order in which immunizations are to be administered, a plan for providing syringes (with the right syringe, 6 doses can be gotten from one vial, instead of 5–a 25% increase), enough alcohol swabs, sharps disposal vessels, extra PPE for personnel to administer the vaccine, recruitment and training of personnel to administer vaccines, a toll-free or other number to obtain an appointment, organized distribution sites in each state, or a plan for how the doses were to be distributed in each state. Nothing. This wasn’t done, and that’s why rollout of the vaccinations have been so haphazard, including wasting several doses of this precious commodity and people making appointments only to get them cancelled because the vaccine didn’t arrive when promised. All Trump’s administration did is send out the doses. Biden’s team has already come up with a comprehensive plan to correct these deficiencies, but Hannity won’t tell you about that. The plan is about 200 pages in length.

      How much time did the Trump administration have to get together a specific plan so that every American would have some reasonable idea when his/her dose would be available, and where to go to get the immunization? More than enough time. Another example of lack of leadership. Here’s a concrete example in my state. I hold a valid RN license, but I don’t work in a health care setting. I received a notice from my state board of health that I was eligible, per my license, for a priority vaccination, with a telephone number to set up my appointment. When you renew your license, they ask if you are working actively in a hospital or other setting, but they never bothered to cull through the licensure documents to eliminate those who are retired or not working directly with patients. Another example from a relative in another state: she is a social worker who works from home helping people qualify for Medicaid. Because she works under the auspices of a hospital system, she received the shot. A comprehensive federal plan would have eliminated these maldistribution issues. The board of health did rescind my notice a few days later on, and now requires an employer ID to get a priority immunization. I wonder how many other states have messed up setting priorities for immunizations because of a lack of federal guidelines.

      The “facts” you hear from Fox are always tilted in favor ofTrump and against Biden, just like your claim that the lack of a plan is a “demonstrable lie”. Trump left NO detailed plan. Vaccines were simply shipped to the states, which were told to figure out what to do with them. Yes, some have been administered, but even at 1 million doses per day, it will take until June, 2022 to get >70% of Americans immunized. By then, due to mutations of the virus, the vaccine might not be effective. That’s what wasting too much time causes. Ingraham won’t tell you that, either.

  2. These idiots must not be aware that Trump supporters not only believe in the First Amendment, we also believe in the Second. Keep it up and civil war is inevitable.

      1. She is a has been wanting pats on the back from the left. The more vile they are they get praise. Really sick people.

    1. Yes. They seem to forget we are the ones with the guns, legal guns. Then WHEN something happens, who in the hell are they going to blame?

        1. Right now I am operating under the presumption that the FBI has emplaced informants and provocateurs into both left and right wing “extremist groups” and fully intends to keep on exciting them to public disorder, in order to justify a long term expansion of FBI powers and budgets to suppress the “domestic terror” that they are touting as the coming trend


          This would be akin to a big company that both sells cigarettes, and also sells antismoking treatments. This seems perplexing unless you understand, “diversification” as an organizational strategy which has more applications than just investing

          In politics it shows up in funny ways too. For example, a government may PREDICT that a war is coming, and then PROVOKE the opposing power into starting it. This happens more often than people generally realize

          Sal Sar

          1. Right now I am operating under the presumption that the FBI has emplaced informants and provocateurs into both left and right wing “extremist groups” and fully intends to keep on exciting them to public disorder, in order to justify a long term expansion of FBI powers and budgets to suppress the “domestic terror” that they are touting as the coming trend.


            1. I dont have proof now, but I have plenty of proof that the FBI was INSTIGATING illegal acts during the Operation PATCON era.

              I heard on NPR that “Biden is bringing back experts from the 90s who were experts in fighting domestic terror.”

              Which is precisely the era of “fighting domestic terror” that gave us OKC, bombed by MacVeigh, and “others unknown” who were actually very much known to the ATF weeks before the incident, due to the informant report of Carol Howe.

              I don’t need to supply the links to prove that, you ignored them before and you would ignore them again

              The bottom line is that just as with the 1960s kkk in which former klucker and federal informant and witness Roy Frankhouser estimated, “at least half were informants or undercovers,” there is a high likelihood that the supposed “terror groups” of today are likewise riddled with the same

              The Michigan incident involving the would be kidnappers of the governor, which by the way included not only right-winger types but also an anarchist, reportedly included one or more informants. among a little gang of what, 4-5 people or so. So there you have it. You can dig up the stories if you like and do your own homework on it.

              Oh heck I’ll give you another example you can verify on your own. And old one but everyone seems to love to remember this guy for one reason or another.

              Do you know who told Hitler to go join the NSDAP in the first place, in 1919? Why, the German army of course

              Sal Sar

              1. Kurtz, informants are not the same thing as the designers and instigators of criminal acts. They are and always have been a necessary part of law enforcement.

                1. necessary yes but letting them run amuck under a false belief of transactional immunity, is not

                  nor is letting off mass murderers like sammy the bull easy laudable

                  nor is letting whitey bulger misuse his informant status to commit murder with the active aid and cooperation of 2 or 3 fbi agents, not a conspiracy theory proven in court

                  dont let me get started on andreas strassmeir, another provocateur of terrorism straight from the german army, who was training the lads around mcveigh too. wonder why a german guy from a prominent family would go slum it with a bunch of american neonazis, if he actually wasnt an informant?

                  and if he was, that might explain why he’s never faced any arrest or prosecution from FBI which has plenty of pull inside Germany, where he skedaddled to days after the bombing. of course i merely speculate. I do not know any such things of my own knowledge. i just read a lot.

                  Like mcveigh’s lawyer’s book Others Unknown. Yes. a good book. McVeigh’s lawyer had a lot to say about him and wanted discovery of who he was working for, but certain governments blocked it

                  oh btw., joey leon– one of McVeigh’s buddies army buddies, some think john doe #2 – supposedly ended up in league with sammy the bull’s post-imprisonment drug operation. i never ran far enough down the rabbit hole to verify that one. maybe some day.

                  all these sketchy figures are known to FBI and they let them run amuck. they could reduce crime in a major way by locking up all the informants, running around doing crimes with the belief that they have immunity, rightly or wrongly, but of course, then it would be that much harder to solve the crimes which they are busy committing, see?

                  sal sar

            2. I am not working from “comic books” and your smart only confirms your own arrogance.


              aka ‘midwestern bank robbers’ of 92-96

              confirmed that they knew and interacted with mcveigh and reportedly helped him pack the ryder truck

              3/7 were federal informants and cooperating witnesses

              is it possible that not only the ATF knew OKC was coming, but also the FBI? “just a hunch”

              if the US federal law enforcement community returns some of the shady characters who handled these informants back on the job, it’s a sure thing we definitely will have more “domestic terror” from one sector or another, because they will solicit it

              Sal Sar

              PS here’s another incident of domestic terror from the 90s. Waco. Which was squarely the fault of incompetent and corrupt agents of FBI and ATF who were responsible for the deaths of unarmed and completely innocent women and children who were immolated on live TV. Perhaps you recall? Their manifest incompetence was further confirmed in the “post mortem” government self analysis, in which the FBI spoliated evidence by “losing’ key evidence that could have exonerated the FBI, had they not “LOST” it

              and what was the premise for the initial raid by FBI and ATF? arresting David Koresh for statutory rape? is that a federal offense? No. It’s a state offense.

              Did they even need to raid the compound to arrest him? No he went for a daily job and they knew it. From their informants, of course! But why do it the safe way, when the ATF wanted it to be on TV to help prove they were “fighting domestic terror groups!”

              was there a legal basis for bringing in military assets once the siege was laid in? no that was a violation of federal law too, Posse Comitatus act. keep an eye on that one, it is out the door these days!

              here dig through it for your own money shots. there’s quite a few


  3. I suspect this professor and many others on the Left fully disavow the following from the 1776 Commission. A commission by the way that I believe Biden shutdown his first day in office.

    Among the virtues to be cultivated in the American republic, the founders knew that a free people must have a knowledge of the principles and practices of liberty, and an appreciation of their origins and challenges.

    While this country has its imperfections, just like any other country, in the annals of history the United States has achieved the greatest degree of personal freedom, security, and prosperity for the greatest proportion of its own people and for others around the world. These results are the good fruit of the ideas the founding generation expressed as true for all people at all times and places.

    An authentic civics education will help rebuild our common bonds, our mutual friendship, and our civic devotion. But we cannot love what we do not know.

    This is why civics education, education relating to the citizen, must begin with knowledge, which is, as George Washington reminds us, “the surest basis of public happiness.”–W2DtVf03PDrh7W5p91Sq5xRzX7W3b5S737Sg3DjW623vw57fNc31W3nczhR535cTwW65xSBM6J9GbpW1v___f1_n3rxW3QkSlC2CpVJVW1NsFY52qvLvGW9hCtbM6rtmwlW81QN_76jKlfrN74hQjmJsH3BN4bT3mhTbbLWW7Y9bKg68hKyHW2ZQx816JH9FF35CB1

    1. Olly….I may cry……Many of us joined and support this project, a project crucial to the education of our children and grandchildren.
      I’m hoping Bob Woodson and his group can plead with Biden to reconsider!

      1. I hear you Cindy. I’m sure it won’t surprise you to know that I consider U.S. Civics illiteracy as a root cause of all our problems,, along with apathy and dependence. We need civics education to get people engaged and this will encourage a movement of self-reliance. This was from a root cause analysis I facilitated over the course of a year and 1000 inputs.

          1. Not training Joe, education. Huge difference. Training is for specific skills that enhance the education. Education is learning what isn’t known and it enhances the individual.

            An individual that gets civics training and not civics education, is the person that accepts being told by the manager to count the ballots under the table when the observer goes home. The one that is educated in civics signs an affidavit that she heard the manager tell the staff to violate the rules. 😉

  4. Trump supporters need to be studied and understood. Despite easily-established proof to the contrary, they believe his lies and the lies of his media enablers, the biggest one of which is that mainstream media cannot be trusted because they are “out to get Trump”. Trump’s disciples defend him to the hilt, even to the extent of committing felonies, which the January 6 insurrection proved. It boggles my mind how his disciples can sincerely believe that the election was rigged, even in Republican states, when Secretary of State after Secretary of State certified the results, cooperated with recounts, re-recounts, signature match validations, when there were poll watchers and watchers over the vote counts, and 60 courts turned down his bogus challenges. I truly don’t understand how these people failed to see the big picture: how they could not appreciate that Trump has been a consistent liar, and how they could believe him over numerous Secretaries of State, over Chris Krebs, over Bill Barr and even after Raffensberger released the tape in which Trump demanded that he “find” 11,000+ votes. That request alone is a felony, and it is shocking that any POTUS could ever do such a thing. What need did Trump fulfill in their lives? Where do they go from here in view of the fact that Trump will not publicly admit that he made up the election fraud garbage because his tender ego cannot handle rejection and after he made a fool of himself by declaring victory a few hours after the polls closed? Already, less than 24 hours into his presidency, Fox News hosts are already spewing lies about Biden being senile, that he is lying about wanting to unite the country, that he is actually dividing the country, and a generic statement that Biden is a liar–fomenting more distrust of government and anger by Trump supporters. They even claim that the conduct of January 6th was not an “insurrection”. What was it, then? They also broadcast the lie that ANTIFA really was behind the insurrection and that mainstream media know it and won’t admit it, both of which are lies. Haven’t we had enough of this sh*t?

    That’s as to Trump, but as to those who aren’t malignant narcissists, who DO know better, and who use the gullibility of Trump’s disciples for their own political aspirations or to ride his coattails for other personal-gain purposes (such as being a paid commentator or analyst, relying on their academic credentials), there should be serious consequences. These people know that Trump’s disciples were lied to, that Biden did not steal the election or cheat, and yet, they fed into the narrative and pretended that they weren’t supporting a malignant narcissist who cannot handle rejection and who is incapable of telling the truth. This isn’t a matter of “academic freedom” or “freedom of speech”. They are free to say whatever they want, but colleges and universities do have a responsibility toward their students and the reputation of their institutions. Rubin is correct that the notion of an institution of higher learning hiring or maintaining any Trump syncophant who aided and abetted his lying, especially about nonexistent election fraud, which resulted in an insurrection leaving 5 people dead, is “abhorrent” to the mission of higher education. Rick Wilson was right in titling his book: “Everything Trump Touches, Dies”.

    1. When and by whom am I to be studied? I voted for DJTrump the first time because I could not, in good conscience, vote for Mrs. Bill or Gary Johnson. After almost 4 years of policies and actions on all fronts by the Republican administration (and in “protest” to the 2016 nominee of the D party, I voted for a 2nd presidency for DJTrump. Having known, first hand, people with memory/brain issues, all I had to do was watch and listen to Joe while campaigning and form a serious concern about ability to think and talk and act for 4 years – just 1 of the reasons I could not vote for him. So … when will some lefty study me? re-program me?

      1. I would say study the 535 A/HOLES in DC and try to find out why they have been cutting away at our rights for the last 5 decades and destroying our Country, using us for votes. Ask them how they became Millionairs on their salaries. Ask them why they they thought 2 yrs in the House and 6 yrs in the Senate meant a lifetime career.

    2. The mainstream media cannot be trusted because they have proven themselves to be untrustworthy. They offer the government narrative as the only truth. They are the lap dogs of whatever America has on its agenda. Whatever wars it wants, whatever fear it wants spread, and whatever position it wants to take. There is no “Free Press” any longer. Today there is Pravda, Komsomolskaya Pravda, Pionerskaya Pravda, and Trud agreeing on the wants of the State and bickering about the meaningless,

    3. You’ve had four years, Natacha, to try to understand why people voted for Trump, and only now, after he’s left office do you express a modicum of 4. Why would people want to be studied like they’re a bunch of hamsters, especially after you and others have spent years insulting and demeaning them? All of you who have been sneering at Trump voters and conservatives as tives in general ought to study yourselves first.

      1. Prairie, self serving stereotyping of groups one thinks of as enemies is more common here by the right wing posters, though true enough we all do it. Trump voters are characterized however by a particular act, and that was voting into office a despicable human being who’s only saving grace was that his compulsions rendered him unable to plot serious damage. I accept and freely admit that of those 74 million voters no doubt most are upstanding moral citizens of high character. I know many of them. I work with them and respect them. BUT, they f..ked up big time by willingly allowing themselves to be conned by one of the most obvious and prolific self serving liars in history, and who lacked any principle other than his constant need for approval and attention.. There is no available excuse for voting for him.

        Similarly, that large minority of Nazi voters in the early 30s in Germany who bought the lies of Hitler were almost certainly not mostly bad people, though some, like our capital rioters, were. The world lived with their foolishness and we live with that of Trump believers. We got lucky and the damage was limited, though our institutions suffered and public trust is shot, the bar lowered for future demagogues maybe more cunning and disciplined than Trump. No more excuses for this behavior and no more for the voters who gave us 4 years of this. You f..ded up. and deserve scorn, no matter the excuse you come up with for it. Citizens of a democracy get the government they deserve. Thanks for nothing!

        1. Joe Friday,
          I did not vote for Trump either time.

          “Trump voters are characterized however by a particular act, and that was voting into office a despicable human being who’s only saving grace was that his compulsions rendered him unable to plot serious damage.”

          Why did they vote for him? Was it because they were duped? Did they have a desire for hope and change? Did they despise Hillary, who also fits your description of Trump:

          “by willingly allowing themselves to be conned by one of the most obvious and prolific self serving liars in history, and who lacked any principle other than his constant need for approval and attention.”

          How can a person be “willingly conned”? If it was a con, that means people were duped. Plenty of propaganda and manipulation out there designed to mess with people’s psychology. Hence, how could it be ‘willingly conned’?

          Even ‘willingly allow themselves to be conned’ requires some consideration. What factors go into a person or a group of people choosing to ignore warning signs? I see that right now in liberal friends and family as they choose to ignore the ACLU and Glenn Greenwald’s (etc) concerns about censorship and excess power in industries.

          If it was a big con job, he wasn’t the only one in on it. It was a concerted effort by many across several industries.

          “There is no available excuse for voting for him.”

          Really? Rather than excuse, perhaps they have reasons that are more rational than you have imagined. Eric Weinstein won’t fault people for their vote. Why is that?

          1. Prairie, whether you voted for Trump or not, you have chosen to defend those who did as somehow compelled by factors outside of their control – and you are a “classic liberal”?

            Recall that the Republican “base” selected Trump out of a field of 18 in 2016, he was not shoved down their throats by the GOP establishment, which did and still does hate his guts, a rational position then and now. (By the way, my accurate description does not fit Hillary who as a matter of principles has spent her life working hard for causes she believes in and was much admired by her constituents in the State of NY – she won re-election by about 67% – and by her colleagues on both sides of the aisle in the Senate, where she was known again as a hard worker willing to put in the hours without the glory. That you may disagree with those principles and/or have been brainwashed by 25 years of negative GOP press is not something easily changed by rationality, but look up her life, accomplishments and then tell me she is easily confused with Donald Trump.)

            My comments were not bigoted as I grant full humanity and even honor to those I discuss – Trump voters – but will not forgive them for an act of colossal ignorance or mailice – take your pick. That is a statement of fact. Trump’s pitiful accomplishments are nothing compared to his failures and the damage he has wrought. Sorry.

            DK who Eric Weinstein is, nor do I care absent further explanation, but there are no valid reasons for voting for a man like that except for those of unprincipled cynics who saw the sure tax cut coming and took it – the hell with the other consequences. We all will be paying for those tax cuts for a decade or more.

            1. Joe Friday
              “defend those who did as somehow compelled by factors outside of their control – and you are a “classic liberal”?”

              How is this a contradiction? I floated that as one possibility. Human psychology is complicated. Some people are more easily steered than others, unfortunately.

              Manipulation isn’t necessarily the only reason either. What is the perspective of Trump voters as to why they voted for him?

              1. Prairie, classic liberals believe in the strength of human rationality, not the excuses of dark emotions and take the responsibility of citizens seriously. I don’t GAF what Trump voters tell their psychiatrists, they failed their duty as citizens of a democracy. We are responsible for it’s success and failures and excuses won’t do.

                1. Joe Friday,
                  “classic liberals believe in the strength of human rationality, not the excuses of dark emotions and take the responsibility of citizens seriously”

                  I would say that the Founders (and current classical liberals) actually believe in all three. They fully recognized humanity’s propensity towards whims and dark emotions–which is why they put many, many checks and balances into place in the formation of our constitutional republic.

                  Yes, people can be rational and discussions about policies and governance (etc) are best had rationally and often and with people fully able to speak their minds.

                  Classical liberals recognize that emotions are easily manipulated and prone to being vented impulsively, which is why they advocate people learn to think rationally and organize their thinking, and, learn to recognize logical fallacies and to learn at least some elements of debate in the hopes that this will help at least partially rein in people’s baser reactions.

                  And, yes, there are serious responsibilities and duties American citizens should take seriously. John Adams enjoyed reading Marcus Tullius Cicero to such a great degree that he typically referred to Cicero as “Tully” the way one would an old friend. Cicero wrote an excellent little book “On Duties”. In a government ‘of the people’, the people are the foundation–they bear up the whole structure so they must shoulder their responsibility accordingly.

            2. “Hillary who as a matter of principles has spent her life working hard for causes she believes in”

              Here is the FBI report on the defensive briefing Hillary received from the FBI. No such briefing was offered to Trump. We know Clinton wasn’t above board and we know the FBI protected her. We also know about her emails and how she tried to cover them up with creating a faux scandal against Trump.

              No need for any response. More FBI results will be out before the end of the week.


              Why the defensive briefing?

              “FBI feared foreign power was targeting money to Clinton before 2016 campaign, memos show

              Bureau delayed FISA warrant and instead gave candidate defensive briefing, in stark contrast to Trump, declassified memos show.

              FBI agents opened an investigation in late 2014 into a foreign power’s effort to curry influence with Hillary Clinton’s prospective presidential campaign through donations, but the bureau’s leadership slow-walked a surveillance warrant and instead arranged for the candidate to get a defensive briefing, newly declassified memos show.

              FBI agents became so frustrated that they were being stonewalled from securing a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act warrant to investigate the foreign money plot that they even escalated to then-FBI Director James Comey…” …

              “The memos redact the name of the foreign country that was suspected of seeking the influence as well as the FBI field office that led the probe. But they do make clear the plot involved “foreign aid money that might be contributed to her campaign should/when she announce(s) her run for POTUS.”

              Continued at:

            3. “DK who Eric Weinstein is, nor do I care absent further explanation”

              Eric Weinstein is the brother of Brett Weinstein–the professor hunted with baseball bats at Evergreen University who had the temerity to disagree with some of the critical theory nonsense going on there. He is also the managing director of Thiel Capital.


              Eric has an excellent podcast called The Portal. He has stepped away from it somewhat due to all the political craziness going on; his most recent podcast came out right after the election and examined the struggles many people have had with voting this year.


        2. Joe Friday:

          You said: “Trump voters are characterized however by a particular act, and that was voting into office a despicable human being who’s only saving grace was that his compulsions rendered him unable to plot serious damage.”

          Seriously. I want you to take 15 minutes, and review Trump’s accomplishments, including 4 Middle East peace deals that John Kerry et al claimed were impossible.

          When you make bigoted statements like this, it’s clear you never took 5 minutes to understand why anyone voted for Trump. If all you watch or read is the mainstream media, you’ll never hear about anything positive he did in office. In other words, all you’ve accessed is anti-Republican, pro-democrat propaganda.

          This I have never understood. I make a point of reviewing Left wing news to try to know where they’re coming from. Mostly, I hear media pundits inform their audience how all conservatives are white supremacists evil people. Which is another reason why people would vote against Democrats.

          Democrat policies have plunged CA into ruin. Taxpayers and businesses are fleeing the state like refugees, taking their jobs and funds with them. So many have left that Gov Newsom is trying to pass a wealth tax that would follow people for 10 years after they leave the state. Drug addicts and mentally ill set up homeless camps all over the place – in front of houses, businesses, under freeway overpasses. Someone in a neighboring town had what appeared to be a pedophile getting off, literally, in front of her daughter’s bedroom window. Restaurants were closed but Hollywood film catering and Newsom’s wineries were allowed to stay open. Theft under $950 is no longer prosecuted. Trespassing is no longer prosecuted. Making threats is no longer prosecuted. Defunding police departments means it takes longer to get a police response (45 minutes for us), and so many crimes are no longer pursued.

          Democrats made electric utilities some of the most highly regulated industries in the country. But their board members decided to make electric companies invest in expensive, unreliable wind and solar, which jacked up our energy prices, instead of infrastructure. Now we all have regular power outages, like a third world country. Over and over again our power gets cut. And what do we have instead of robust infrastructure? Wind turbines that work for 20 years, only when the wind blows, and cost $500,000 to then junk.

          Seeing how Democrat policies have absolutely ruined a beautiful state, blessed in weather, is a big motivator for people to vote against Democrats.

          If you can’t see our point of view, then you’re biased. Democrats think they’re the party of tolerance, superiority, and equality, but the fruits show they emphatically are not. Good intentions won’t change the results.

          Your party acts like fascists while calling dissenters Nazis. Really good people are blind to this.

          1. Karen, since you are largely repeating Prairie’s argument, see my response to her.

            My argument is not about political principles about which we can honestly differ, though you regularly demonize those you disagree with, so maybe no discussion is available with you. We can both acknowledge the reality however that Donald Trump has no political principles – he has a persona he figured out he could sell to people like you, and a decade ago it was another one for a different audience – and is a first class braggart, con man, liar, and self dealing scumbag. That’s just a fact.

            You apparently voted for him and of course defend him here regularly. Putting aside the likelihood that you are an otherwise honorable. honest, loving, responsible, and forthright citizen, that is your stain for life. Please choose more wisely in the future. We all have to live here.

            1. Jo Jo — your guy Joey B from Scranton, the plagiarizer, the thin-skinned one in the Oval Office, the corrupt sell out with the screwed up family of grifters….yeah…that one….he’s gonna be gone within two years. The old dude is declining and snapping at reporters as if HE should not be questioned by such riff raff. His elitism is showing. His arrogance is showing. His frailty is showing. His senility is showing. In other words, your guy, Joey B. is not long for this world of presidential politics. He’s used to being coddled, as all Democrat politicians are by the sycophantic media. Watch out for your guy. He is declining muy rapido.

              1. Gee Anonymous, you wouldn’t believe it, but you are not the 1st Trumpster who has made rash – and now false – promises here as if that was intelligent discussion.

                McCabe and Comey would be in jail by now, Obama and Biden facing trial, and best of all, Trump would win! Guaranteed!

                It’s been a lot of fun as you may imagine.

                1. How can they be promises, we don’t control the process? They were allegations that proved to be true.

                  You’ve defended the attempted coup against a duly elected President. And you admit it’s been fun. That’s not patriotism, that’s sedition. That makes you a bona fide domestic enemy.

      2. No, Rose, I don’t understand why people voted for Trump, how they can ignore his arrogance, lying and obvious need for attention and adulation. I don’t understand how you can overlook his lifetime of failures–being supported by his Daddy well into his forties, and after that, one business bankruptcy after another and thousands of lawsuits brought by people he refused to pay for services and materials. I don’t get why his “puzzy grabbing” remark doesn’t offend you. I don’t understand how or why people like you don’t question why he would promise that Mexico would pay for a border wall (something he made up to get cheers from gullibles like you), or why you aren’t offended that the diverted funds from the Pentagon budget for the wall, funds allocated to repair/replace dilapidated housing and run-down school buildings for children of active-duty military personnel. I don’t understand why you aren’t offended by the fact that he’s a draft-dodger, that he refuses to release his tax returns or other financials (primarily because they would refute his claims of fabulous wealth), or how you can ignore his racism, calling migrants “animals, murderers, rapists and criminals”, and caging their children like animals (those that weren’t kidnapped to punish their parents for coming to the US per Jeff Sessions) instead of punishing the Republican-owned businesses that hire them and create an incentive for them to keep coming here in hordes. How do you overlook the praise of White Supremacists after the murder of Heather Heyer? If those instances of overt racism don’t offend you, then you are not a patriotic American.

        The biggest question of all is how or why so many people would believe someone with a consistent history of lying, like Trump, over numerous Secretaries of State (most of whom were Republicans) who oversaw the most-secure election in US history, why you don’t understand the implications of firing Chris Krebs and Bill Barr because they wouldn’t go along with the lie, and how or why it didn’t faze you when Raffensberger released the recording of Trump demanding that he “find” 11,000+ votes—this request alone was a felony and a tacit admission that he knows he lost, and proof of his desperation because his tender ego cannot handle failure. I don’t get either how or why his admission of lying about the pandemic to Bob Woodward didn’t faze Trumpsters, either, or the statistics showing that the US has nearly the worst record for COVID infections and deaths. Do you recall the constant lies about the 15 cases would soon be 0 cases, pushing hydroxychloroquine, causing a shortage for lupus and rheumatoid arthritis patients who need the drug, and, because of his ego, the ‘press conference” by the “demon sperm” doctor saying hydroxychloroquine was an effective treatment, only to have the FDA conduct studies proving it wasn’t? How about your hero recommending ingesting bleach or using light inside the human body, not letting the CDC doctors speak freely, and refusing to encourage Americans to wear face masks? Just yesterday, I had a run-in at a post office with a man who told me that science doesn’t support wearing masks (this was after I told him that this post office branch would probably ask him to leave if he wasn’t wearing a mask). What does it take?

        You say my comments are insulting and demeaning? Your blind faith to someone like Trump, who is NO conservative*, is baffling. How much failure, how many deaths, how many criminal acts, how many lies–what does it take to shake your belief in this deeply-flawed failure of a man suffering from delusions of grandeur and narcissism? When people blindly follow a man with delusions of grandiosity, who constantly lies, even to the point of fomenting an insurrection leaving 5 people dead and our US Capitol desecrated with human waste and damage to monuments to great men like John Lewis, their values and perceptions are fair game for inquiry.

        *Fox is lying when it calls Trump a conservative. He doesn’t meet the criteria: personal integrity and honesty, character, marital fidelity and fiscal responsibility are hallmarks of conservatives. Trump is none of these things, which is why Republicans founded The Lincoln Project.

        1. Natacha,
          “I don’t understand how or why people like you” … “like you”

          You have no idea my position on Trump. I never voted for the man. My perspective is actually rather complicated.

          You’re still talking *at* me and *at* anyone who voted for or who supports/ed him (not actually being genuinely curious and wanting to understand).

          Have you tried asking anyone who did or does support Trump: Why do you support Trump? or Why did you vote for Trump?

          As someone familiar with nursing, to try to understand what’s going on with someone health-wise, you gotta ask open-ended questions and you gotta let them talk, maybe asking clarifying questions now and again, right? Same with any other perspective or deeply held beliefs.

          I know I need to get better at this, too, so that’s as much for me as for anybody.

    4. Complete projection from a Democrat cultist and IDPol victim. Please get help for your TDS. That stuff wrecks your brain.

    5. This, from the lady that claimed for years that Trump was working for the Russians. Years of claiming election fraud. Remember when you kept saying he cheated to become President? Turned out to be Democrat propaganda.

      This willful blindness by Democrats would be an excellent are of study.

      Your statement shows a breathtaking lack of self awareness. It’s fascinating.

      1. Do you know why Dan Coats was fired? Do you? Because he refused to lie for Trump. Coats confirmed what Mueller found–the Trump campaign fed insider polling information to Russians which directed them to the districts in swing states, like Minnesota and Wisconsin, where support for Hillary Clinton was soft enough that lies about her on social media might change votes. It worked. That is called cheating, and that is what Trump did. That’s why he is not, and never will be considered legitimate. These are facts not “Democrat propaganda”. Read the Mueller Report. Trump obstructed the Mueller investigation by refusing to be deposed, refusing to produce documents and procuring the lack of cooperation of key witnesses. That is enough for obstruction of justice.

        If anyone is showing wilful blindness and lack of self-awareness, it’s you.

    6. Your delusion is breathtaking. I expect nothing less from someone who voted for a corpse for President. FYI: Pres. Trump did not incite anything. He was exercising his free speech rights. Second, it was NOT an insurrection. There is no legal basis for either.

    7. You people still to this day do not get TRUMP. One very easy thing to understand about TRUMP, the 535 Douchbags in DC have done nothing. He is not one of them, he left DC the same Trump he was when he went in. DC didn’t change him because DC is Donald Trump. He doesn’t follow a script nor does he care who gets upset when he says something. The man is a Goliath ! He went to DC to do things HIS way and that is exactly how we wanted him to.

    8. “Trump supporters need to be studied and understood.”

      Sure they do. But you have little inclination or ability to do either, from your comments.

      let’s turn instead to some true liberals, genuine leftists of goodwill instead of the usual counterfeits, who discuss WHY

      Sal Sar

  5. Trumps legacy? From the piece:

    As such, even if aggressive actions by the Biden administration to address the specter of a Trump-inspired insurrection have the explicit support of nominally Republican leaders such as Mitch McConnell or Kevin McCarthy, how would such action be seen by MAGA America? If forced to choose, would someone like Governor Ron DeSantis align himself with a “bipartisan” effort from Washington elites or choose to be a leader of Biden-era resistance? Even if the resistance to a Biden administration is not ideologically libertarian or fundamentally “antistate,” an explicit rejection of federal domination would be a vital first step toward the sort of political decentralization and self-governance that any peaceful political order ultimately requires.

    Of course, all of this assumes that Trump’s base remains loyal—or at least remains hostile to the new regime. If Biden governs the same way he campaigned, by largely staying out of sight and avoiding making any bold statements and commitments one way or another, perhaps the public can be once again pacified and partisan divisions reduced to largely superficial differences, as has been the case for much of the current era.

    If, however, the Biden administration governs more like the corporate press and blue Twitter wants him to—waging war on gender roles, prioritizing transgender issues, pushing for job-killing economic policy during a pandemic, acting unilaterally on immigration, penalizing gun owners, “reeducating” Trump supporters, treating MAGA like Al Qaeda, etc.—then the divides between Trump’s America and Biden’s America could become only further entrenched. And that is not even factoring in what happens if America experiences the hardship of an economic crisis.

    Trump’s legacy will not be shaped by his actions—or even by how his enemies portray him. Ultimately, it comes down to his base and the movement he inspired. As Lew Rockwell noted in a recent interview with Buck Johnson, “The Jeffersonians were much better than Jefferson. The Taftians were much better than Robert Taft. The Trumpians tend to be much better than Trump.”

    Should skepticism of the 2020 election, fueled by a new administration’s actions, finally convince 50+ million Trump supporters that the barbarians in the Beltway do not represent them and to react accordingly, then Trump’s presidency will be—despite his own actions—the disruption that America’s elites truly feared.

  6. ACADEMIA ? More like Mental Institutions masquarading as Colleges where they brainwash students . Believe one does not have to have a degree to know the author of this hideous piece is a total whack job.

  7. Priceless Fascism at it’s best. It’s funny how the Fascist Democrats and their propaganda arm media tried to imply that President Trump was the dictator but I don’t recall him ever asking the radical left to be ‘cleansed’, ‘Deprogrammed’ or ‘murdered’. The bizzare temper tantrums and evilness of the left are on display daily. Take this down please. I assure you we are not going to be deprogrammed, cleansed or murdered ‘ That is not without a bloody Civil War . And furthermore, we are not going to shut up, we are not going away and we are never ever going to accept the results of the stolen election. President Trump has our unwavering support not the Republican Party. Continue to spew your nonsense, we really don’t particular care what stupid insanity you conjure up in your mentally disturbed brains.

    1. Babs: first of all, these people quoted by Turley do not purport to represent the Democratic Party, so generalizing something they say that you don’t like as being the position of the Democratic Party is not fair–this is a tactic used by Fox–anything AOC says that they know people like you don’t like (because they know that people like you hate her and Ilhan Omar and other successful women of color)– they try to claim is the opinion or position of the entire Democratic Party. That’s a lie and is used as a means of manipulation.

      Your post proves the point about Trump supporters being part of a cult: there is nothing that could ever convince you that Trump lost the election because you believe whatever he says. He is a chronic, habitual liar, and yet, has your “unwavering support”. He has always had a bad reputation for cheating people, but the parade of lies is, to use Turley’s word, “breathtaking”, beginning with lying about having the biggest inaugural crowd in history, having the biggest Electoral College victory in history, and this was on Day 1 of his occupation of the White House. Both lies were easily disproven. Photos tell the truth about the inauguration crowd, and history tells us that numerous presidents got more Electoral College votes. Yet you believe because Trump says so. Skipping to the last day, he claimed to have created the best economy in history prior to the pandemic. That, too, is a lie–his economic record, pre-pandemic, ranked 7th in recent presidential history. Obama and Jimmy Carter did better. BTW: the stock market and the economy are not synonymous. These statistics are easy to look up, but you wouldn’t believe them because you believe whatever Trump says.

      How on earth you could believe that Trump could win, in a landslide, as he claims, boggles the mind. You have to not only set aside the litany of lies he has told when judging between his credibility and that of numerous Secretaries of State, including Republican ones, as well as Chris Krebs and Bill Barr, but also ignore polls and reality. Did Mexico pay to build the wall? Have we “turned the corner” on COVID? No to both—Trump lies. He lost the popular vote in 2016. The highest approval rating he ever received was in the 40’s–never reached 50%, and that is a record. All polls, including Fox’s poll, predicted he would lose the 2020 election, which he did, but he cannot handle failure, so he lies. The present economy is the worst since the Great Depression, American deaths and COVID infections set new daily records, and yet, you believe the American people voted overwhelmingly to re-elect him. Does that even make sense? And yet, your position is that claiming to the contrary is “nonsense”, “stupid insanity” and the product of “mentally disturbed brains”. You even turn against the Republican Party to the extent it disavows Trump. If someone like you isn’t the very definition of a cult member, then I cannot imagine what would qualify.

      1. Good grief. Look in the mirror, Natacha.

        “Trump supporters need to be studied and understood.”

        Are you trying to even understand Barbara?

        You call her Babs, then you talk at her, insinuate she’s a racist rather than someone who disagrees with Ilhan Omar’s policies, and call her a cult member. Listen to yourself!

        Why does she defend Trump so much? Does she thinks he lies about x,y or z? Why or why not?

        Actually studying something means asking questions, not just of the topic and of others, but also of yourself.

        1. As a loyal Fox viewer, did you ever wonder why the Democrats they pick on the most just coincidentally happen to be women, and especially, women of color, like Maxine Waters, Ilhan Omar, AOC, and Nancy Pelosi? True, they also attack men, like Chuck Schumer, but not in the same way. There are plenty of other Democrat women in Congress, but they don’t garner the same level and intensity of attacks as Waters, Omar, and AOC. The reason should be obvious–misogyny, racism and xenophobia. Fox doesn’t present these women as being worthy of having a valid point of view–they are presented as objects of derision.

          On the other hand, male Republicans who proceeded with supporting Trump’s lies about the election being stolen proceeded with voting not to accept the results of at least one state–Hawley and Cruz–and received no criticism. Their votes against certification were based on what facts? There aren’t any, and, in fact, the results were certified by all Secretaries of State, and there were recounts, re-recounts and signature match validations to support the certified results from each state, 60 courts heard their flimsy arguments and rejected them. but these two still voted against certification. And, don’t forget that these votes came AFTER the Trump Insurrection. How on earth do Trumpsters fail to see what a disgrace these men are and how unfit they are to serve as members of Congress? They are pandering to Trumpsters to further their own political ambitions. They want the gullible disciples to fall for them, too.

          1. Natcha’s arrogance is amazing, always and ever super condescending especially to other women. “Babs” now. reminds me of her calling female posters ‘honey” other times

            She’s a troll, and a fool. Ignore her except for amusement purposes only

            Sal Sar

          2. “As a loyal Fox viewer”

            I don’t even own a TV that hooks into anything but a DVD player.

            More assumptions and more talking *at* me.

            The inauguration happened on a palindrome. Perhaps it’s time for more people, Democrats especially, to do a little self-reflection.


    2. Well said, Barbara. This is my experience for the past four years. The CIA-backed mainstream media assigns the narratives and talking points, and no matter what Trump would say, it would be misinterpreted. Now they’ve committed a coup d’etat, and installed a senile serial plagiarizer. I was a Democrat until 2006, and then a Green, and now I am disgusted with both parties, but Trump was probably the best president in the past 20 years, given he didn’t start any wars. All of my left-leaning friends left the Dems or Greens and voted for him. But we’re supposed to believe Old Joe the baby kisser won? It is to laugh.


    Most comments by Trump loyalists illustrate, in real time, the glaring disconnect this country suffers. They seem convinced the United States is somehow on the path to ‘communism’. There’s no reality behind this view. Yet every time a Democrat takes office, conservatives start up with this nonsense.

    When Bill Clinton first took office, Republicans were convinced Clinton’s tax hikes would ‘choke’ the economy. Yet the Clinton years coincided with one of our strongest economies ever. Republicans claimed Obamacare was a ‘dangerous lurch’ towards socialized medicine. But in reality, Obamacare was an effort to preserves free-market healthcare options.

    Trumpers dwell in a bubble where only Republicans have any basic business sense. But economic output in this country is disproportionately centered in blue-state metro regions.

    1. And the exodus from New York and California (Democratic controlled) to Florida and Texas (Republican Controlled) are caused by what, poor weather?

      1. George, it’s called ‘cheaper living’. That’s the free market. Yet Texas and Florida are not immune to environmental impacts. Both of those states could face water shortages if Global Warming continues at current rates. What’s more, Miami and Houston are highly prone to flooding.

        1. “it’s called ‘cheaper living”

          Yes it is. Thanks to no State income tax, and Legislatures that are fiscally responsible.

          Those are the primary reasons for the exodus of businesses from Blue States, and the resulting economic damage to Blue States is only going to get much worse.

        2. Use your brain Anonymous the Stupid. Why all of a sudden the exodus and in prior years where the was an exodus similar things were happening. Florida and Texas have been around a long time. The Carolina’s are less expensive.

          Are you that dumb?

        3. State Taxes: California 13.3%, NY 8.82% Florida 0%, Texas 0%..– Sales Taxes: California 7.25%, NY 4.875%, Texas 6.25% and example of just a few of City Taxes: LA 2.25%, Houston 2%. Florida has a standard Sales tax for the entire state and varies between 6 to 8.5% and includes all cities. This does not address property taxes in any way. To use unfounded Environmental projections is avoiding the issue of migration from the two states I mentioned. I could counter your argument that California’s forest management is terrible, or that New York City experienced flooding from a Hurricane that neither the Mayor nor Governor knew how to handle. Cost of living is proportional to location, as an example a middle class family cannot afford to purchase a house in Los Angeles, but may be able to in Austin Texas though I doubt a middle class family could buy a residence in New York City. Elon Musk is in the process of relocating to the State of Texas, why, as he said the governance of California has a lot to be desired.

    2. Anonymous,


      Most comments by Trump loyalists illustrate, in real time, the glaring disconnect this country suffers. ”

      No kidding. That’s why I said these people need to stop bloviating and going on wild hyperbolic rants about “deprogramming, communist takeover, socialist takeover, Chinese whatever”. Seriously this is why conspiracy theories are so damaging. Any little thing that brings up suspicions or “clues” that might support whatever grand conspiracy has been coursing through their minds just adds to that outrage or fear. It’s like a drug addict. They need the confirmation that their deluded minds crave to satisfy preconceived notions borne out of lies.

      It turns into a vicious never ending circle of suspicion and logic.

    3. “They seem convinced the United States is somehow on the path to ‘communism’

      No, fascism of the Mao or Nazi type.

      1. Alan, commism and fascism are two different animals. Yet Republicans no longer know the difference. That’s further evidence of the disconnect Republicans suffer. This mistaken perception only goes back about 10 years at the most. It’s because rightwing media can’t admit that fascism was historically rightwing in nature.

        1. Anonymous, I’ll forget the biggest technical difference that you don’t recognize. The type of communism seen is fascistic in nature as is Nazism.

          I’ll just provide as has been done numerous times before:

          Nazism, fascism, and ‘socialism’ all involve larger governments, control of the medial and different levels of relationships with business. Italian fascism and Nazism both worked with and told their businesses what to do as do the ‘socialists’ until they reach Marx’s communism which is an economic system not a political system. Marxist Communism is in the category of capitalism. Both are economic in nature.

          You are as dumb as a doorknob.

          Todays Republican that holds onto the idea of classical liberalism might be to the right of the spectrum in poorly worded terms but classical liberalism desires smaller government, business independent from government and a media that is not representative of the ruling body. Classical liberals value freedom. Your type of fascism values government.

          What you call the right except those extremists or anarchists that represent both sides of the spectrum are classical liberals. Those on the left are fascists. With the present race environment the left is creating the Democrats presently have a Nazi feature. That many Democrats are calling for education camps one might say that represents a Maoists feature. If Democrats call for concentration camps they would be leaning towards the Nazi’s, Maoists and Soviet socialists.

          No one needs a reeducation came, but you do need to get an education.

          (John Say, I am keeping this simple for Anonymous the Stupid. He needs little steps before he can learn to crawl.)

          1. S. Meyer,
            “What you call the right except those extremists or anarchists that represent both sides of the spectrum are classical liberals.”

            I wish this were true. Unfortunately, there are run of the mill Republicans/conservatives out there who would not blink an eye when it comes to authoritarianism.

            1. Prairie, the sentence you quoted had nothing to do with party. I have stated over and over again in multiple posts that the Republicans in general do not behave as classical liberals so I am not sure why you thought I stated otherwise. The statement had to do with what Anonymous called the right on this blog.

              When I did mention the word Republican it was in a different paragraph and referred to “Todays Republican that holds onto the idea of classical liberalism…” That clearly states that classical liberalism is a philosophy that is held by some Republicans. It can also be held by Democrats and independents.

              1. S. Meyer,
                “It can also be held by Democrats and independents.”

                Thank goodness. I agree.

                I have been having debates about this in the real world. The idea of Republicans being the party of classical liberalism has been brought up, same with ‘conservatives’ or ‘the right’ holding classical liberal values. I have disagreed with these characterizations. When I responded, I had read ‘the right’ as a broadened term, not specific to anywhere, as per the real world discussions I’ve been having.

                I still might hedge with ‘most on the right on the blog’. I’m not confident it’s a 10/10 who are classical liberals on here like I’d love for it to be. Many are, for sure. My apologies for missing that you had narrowed your comment to the blog. I need to read more slowly and carefully.

                1. Prairie, I was a Democrat before I became a Republican before I became an independent. I voted cross party lines never wanting to give the WH full control over the Senate and House. The less government does the better and if something is really important generally both sides will agree with wide margins. I chose parties based on whether or not there was a primary I wished to vote in.

                  Classical Liberalism is about as close as I can get to stating what I believe in. That was Milton Friedman’s answer but he also used the term libertarianism which I like as well but libertarianism has a wide spectrum of beliefs. To the ideology one has to consider the DOI and the Constitution. That further narrows down the ideology and in my case I believe more in the originalist and textualist side of interpretation. Add to that federalism and a bit of pragmatism with the recognition that the lifespan of man is limited and you have a basic understanding of what I believe.

                  Both parties are out for themselves and do not stand up for the people they represent. In today’s world the Democrats have completely turned tables and adopted the ideas behind fascism to replace the Constitution. Trump was out for himself as well, but he wasn’t looking for money rather he wanted to keep America and its economy strong. Reaching his goals was what he was looking for. That is part of his personality. He strives to being a success at whatever he does. Success is his reward and fortunately for the American people his success was in American interests.

                  Now that Biden is our Fauxresident in the WH we have to see who wins the battle in the Democratic Party but I predict we are faced between bad and worse.


      Speaking of alternate realities.

      Are you aware that there were millions of people who voted for Trump because it was a vote against Hillary in 2016 and a vote against Biden in 2020?

      Apparently not. Because in your inane screed you act as if all of the people who voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020 are “Trump loyalists” and “Trumpers”, when in reality they are not.

      Another example of your own little alternate reality is that you are completely unaware that there are millions of eligible voters (like myself) who don’t vote anymore because they know that choosing the lesser of two evils, is still choosing evil.

      Plus they are quite aware that both political Parties are completely owned and beholden to big money interests who in reality could care less about red or blue. Because the ONLY color they care about is the color of money.

      So, it would be a really good idea for you to try to educate yourself before you decide to write a comment that makes you look like a pedantic putz with no grasp of reality.

    5. Peter, you’re not in a position to be lecturing anyone about reality. You don’t know anything but what talking point mills tell you.

    6. “They seem convinced the United States is somehow on the path to ‘communism’.”

      More like deeper down the path of statist corporatism.

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