Did The Democrats “Tank” The Second Trump Trial?

Below is my column in USA Today on the lack of a strategy by the House to secure conviction in the trial of former President Donald Trump. As I have previously noted, the House managers did an excellent job in their presentations and many of the videotapes rekindled the anger that most of us felt over the riot. They also reinforced the view of many (including myself) that former president Donald Trump bears responsibility in the tragedy that unfolded due to his reckless rhetoric. Yet, there was a glaring omission in the substance of the House arguments. The managers did not lay out what the standard should be in convicting a former president for incitement of an insurrection and only briefly touched on proving any “state of mind” needed for such a conviction. That is why I have referred to their case as more emotive than probative. It lacked direct evidence to support the claim that Trump wanted to incite an actual insurrection or rebellion against the United States, as alleged in the article of impeachment.  I do not believe that an acquittal was inevitable in this case, but it was all but assured by critical decisions made by the House in this impeachment. The unforced errors discussed below raise the question of whether the Democrats “tanked” the trial.

Here is the column:

The second trial of former President Donald Trump is shaping up to be a curious exercise designed more to enrage than convict. While legal eagles will be analyzing every move, what citizens really need is an Philadelphia Eagles fan to understand what is unfolding. In the NFL, it is called “tanking.” This year, there was a raging debate whether Eagles coach Doug Pederson was actually trying to win or just losing convincingly to secure a better draft pick. The House trial strategy has every indication of a tanked trial, but few are noting the glaring lack of a credible offense.

When it comes to football, tanking allegations arise when the inexplicable speeds along the inevitable. That point was reached this season when Pederson decided not to tie the game against Washington in the third quarter with a field goal and instead put Nate Sudfeld in the game over Jalen Hurts. The House may have reached that point when the managers seemed to be trying harder to make a better case for losing than winning. That was driven home by the selection of such managers as Rep. Eric Swalwell in the wake of his scandal with Chinese spy. Swalwell’s comments not only include disturbing legal claims, but highly personal and offensive remarks like mocking threats against Susan Collins, R-Maine. Swalwell declared “Boo hoo hoo. You’re a senator who police will protect. A sexual assault victim can’t sleep at home tonight because of threats. Where are you sleeping? She’s on her own while you and your @SenateGOP colleagues try to rush her through a hearing.”  Pelosi picked not only a member who has viciously attacked Republicans but one of the Republicans most needed by the House in this trial. Sending in Swalwell made the Sudfeld substitution look like sheer genius.

If this was an NFL board of inquiry, three signs of tanking would standout.

The Snap

The first indication was the use of what I have called a “snap impeachment.” The House wanted to impeach the president before he left office, which was perfectly constitutional. I have long maintained (as I did as a witness in the first Trump impeachment hearing) that the House can legitimately impeach a president on his very last day in office if it has evidence of a high crime and misdemeanor. However, after Jan. 6 the House had time to hold hearings (even if only for a day or two) to create a record supporting impeachment. The House leadership refused despite the urging of some of us that no impeachment had ever been submitted with no record of a hearing, investigation or formal opportunity for a president to respond.

It was an ironic moment. In the last impeachment, I criticized the House leadership for impeaching Trump on the thinnest record in the shortest time in history. It then outdid itself by impeaching him a second time with no record and no hearing. Even a day of hearings would have reduced the serious prudential concerns of senators, but the House pushed through a snap impeachment on a muscle vote. That left the House with no record despite being denied witnesses in the prior impeachment by the Senate

The Article

The greatest indication of tanking was the language of the article itself. Even a single day of hearings would have allowed experts to discuss the potential impeachable conduct and the crafting of articles of impeachment. There was credible impeachable offenses in Trump’s conduct on January 6th and its aftermath. Instead, the House leadership insisted on impeachment for “incitement of insurrection.” The House is not alleging reckless or negligent conduct leading to a riot. It is alleging incitement to actually seek rebellion or overthrow of the country. The article specifically refers to section 3 of the 14th Amendment in its prohibition of anyone holding office if they “engaged in insurrection or rebellion against” the United States. Even moderate senators who condemned Trump for his speech would be highly unlikely to convict on such an article.

The House made it easy on those seeking acquittal. It could have crafted an article that would appeal to broader bipartisan support. Instead, it sought the most extreme language alleging incitement to an actual insurrection — virtually guaranteeing a partisan vote and likely acquittal.

The House also included language that only strengthened the expected challenge facing the House in seeking a trial for a former president. The article declared Trump “has demonstrated that he will remain a threat to national security, democracy, and the Constitution if allowed to remain in office.” Yet, the House was virtually certain that he would already be out of office when he came to trial. The language magnified concerns over the constitutionality of retroactive trials. Not only does the Constitution refer to the trial as deciding whether to remove “the President” but the article itself refers to the purpose of such removal to protect the nation. While the article mentions disqualification from future office, the article is crafted around an urgency that would become a nullity in a matter of days.

The Record

What occurred next was familiar to NFL fans suspicious of tanking. Nothing happened. The House made it to the endzone of a Senate trial and then stopped on a dime. The House demanded witnesses in the Senate but then let weeks pass without calling any witnesses that would be relevant to proving Trump’s intent or state of mind. It could have created a public record and locked in testimony in case the Senate, as expected, declined to call witnesses or severely limited witnesses.

Thus, weeks passed as key witnesses gave public interviews. Yet, the House refused to put them under oath in hearings. Why? A dozen witnesses could have testified and the record could have been referenced or incorporated in the trial. These are witnesses like former Acting Secretary of Defense Chris Miller and his two closest aides, Kashyap “Kash” Patel and Ezra Cohen describing what Trump said and did during the critical period, including discussions of the use of National Guard. Most recently, a senior aide said that Trump was “loving watching the Capitol mob” on television. The witnesses are doing everything short of wearing sandwich boards outside of the House asking to be called, but the House has refused to create a record. If it called hearings, the House would have reduced the concerns over the use of a snap impeachment and dramatically strengthened its case. Instead, the House preferred no record.

The House brief in the Senate further highlighted the lack of direct evidence on Trump’s state of mind. It laid out an emotionally charged but legally incomplete case for the Senate. To convict, the House needs to show Trump was more than reckless. It crafted the article as inciting an actual rebellion or insurrection, not mere negligence. Instead, the House plans to show clips of damage and interviews with rioters to show how Trump’s words were interpreted rather than intended. The thrust of its case is a parade of horribles from that day, a narrative that will harden the minds of many but change the minds of few. Without such evidence, the Trump team will be able to hammer away at similarly reckless rhetoric used by Democrats, including members of the “jury.”

That is why, with the start of the trial, there is growing suspicion of a tanked trial. The House will present a case long on emotions and short on evidence. Trump will then be acquitted and Democrats will look to picking up new talent in the 2022 draft.

Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University and a member of USA TODAY’s Board of Contributors. Follow him on Twitter: @JonathanTurley

586 thoughts on “Did The Democrats “Tank” The Second Trump Trial?”

  1. While we enjoy President’s weekend our President, Joe Biden, keeps pulling the rug out from under America and the American people. With the hegemony of our new oligarchy bonded with China ready to use its sword against the American people, one need not look far to know what has happened in the years prior. Aside from numerous financial connections to China Biden was reportedly provided with a $5million loan interest free ( will it be repaid? Of course not). Add Hunter’s known deals in the billions. It helps that Jeff Bezos made $85 Billion more during the lockdowns and he controlled the WaPo that advocated for the lockdowns. Of course if one peels the onion one sees that our own CIA might be compromised for one has to ask why would protecting America from from China be its number 1 issue when the storage technology of the agency is run by Amazon Web Services. Who is China’s major distributor, owner of the WaPo, winner of the lockdowns and deals with China? None other than Jeff Bezos.

    1. You’re nothing but a low-level conspiracy theorist.

      Did you know that Chemtrails are a government conspiracy designed to make Americans so gullible and stupid they actually believe Chemtrails are a government conspiracy?

      You’re on that level.

      You’re a waste of time.

      1. The Hunter Biden computer and its data constitute a conspiracy theory? Keep talking and prove yourself dumb.
        The Biden family dealings with Russia and China constitute a conspiracy theory? Can’t help it if you are ignorant.
        Jeff Bezos doesn’t own the WaPo?
        Jeff Bezos through Amazon Web services doesn’t supply storage facilities to the CIA?
        Jeff Bezos didn’t make an extra $75 to $85 Billion extra because of the lockdown and dealing with Cina?

        Are you a fool, Ben, or brain dead? Which is it because all of the above is well documented.


  2. Biden is sending out a lot of messages about China that are scary. The ‘no talk red lines’ China is imposing are growing, not shrinking. Our resolve seems to follow Biden’s hiding in the basement.

    An example is what the Pentagon spokesperson John Kirby said:

    “We have obligations to assist Taiwan with their self-defense and I think you’re going to see that continue,”

    Is that resolve? …we Think it will continue…

    He’s hedging his bets on one of the most important issues to the world as Chinese jets fly over Taiwan territorial boundaries and China’s navy does the same.

  3. Non-partisan independent, but deeply concerned about law and human rights. I believe the nex campaign is to try to get House/Senate to pass a resolution on Section 3 of 14th Amendment as a way to disqualify Mr. Trump from future political federal campaigns. The use of the 14th Amendment, after a literal Civil War, was a troubling approach to democractic processes, and has been inconsistent. To use the 14th Amendment today as a bludgeon, poses real democracy threats. Political advocates view this merely as a way to end Mr. Trump’s influence. But in fact, an actual impeachment trial (such as it was), which was based on this very 14th Amendment did not get acceptance by a majority of the U.S. Senate. The January 13, 2021 House Impeachment Resolution on Mr. Trump view this as a part of the basis for impeachment decision: “Further, section 3 of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution prohibits any person who has “engaged in insurrection or rebellion against” the United States from “hold[ing] any office … under the United States”. ”

    Mr. Trump has been acquitted on this by the U.S. Senate. Now, after his specific acquittal, frustrated individuals want a new “resolution” from House or Senate on this. If the House viewed that such a resolution by them was all that was necessary, why did it not simply issue that, rather than the impeachment resolution (using the Section 3 of 14th Amendment as basis)? After all, if they were empowered to simply make such resolutions to prohibit those from running for office, they could have already done so. But we see the House did not do that, and I don’t know what the legal aspects of that will now be for those seeking to prohibit Mr. Trump from office over Section 3 of 14th Amendment.

    Beyond the legal aspects, there remains the larger question to democracy. If a minimal majority can now use Section 3 of 14th Amendment to deny right to participate in democratic representation (right or wrong), to those they label as “insurrectionists” and “aiding enemies,” then where exactly does this end in the U.S.? This is not the result of an actual Civil War as its use in the 1870s, where representatives were actively engaged in decalaration of War on the U.S.. So if advocates decide to open Section 3 of 14th Amendment to silence those they don’t agree with or those whose actions are not actual part of an insurrection on the entire U.S. government or an actual war against the U.S., where will this end? Because when power changes, advocates can then use them against other political parties. If this Section 3 Amendment 14 gains traction, hopefully there will be those who bring this before the U.S. Supreme Court to get a judicial reading on Constitutional law. The idea of using this to silence unpopular voices who consider themselves persecuted is a dangerous threat to the entire U.S. democratic system.

    EVEN in Afghanistan…. Taliban associates serve in the Afghan Parliament, and Taliban figures have long been invited by successive Afghan president in a form of political power-sharing. Consider. We are looking at political advocacy that seeks even a more represessive and less “free” democratic representation than Afghanistan. Not surprisingly, we have those with extreme views who claim to be in the intelligence community, whose mantra “the ends justifies the means” has long been a challenge to representative and moral democractic practices. It is a serious danger that abandon political equality in a representative democracy.

  4. It must be mentally taxing to be honest and maintain a shred of progressive credit. Not one Senator looked at this case like you did. Not one Senator was persuaded or dissuaded on the grounds you explore.

  5. Dear Mr. Turley, your whole article makes me weary. It smacks of self righteous pomposity. Give me a break!!

  6. Sorry Prof. Turley

    I challenge the first premis of your editiorial.

    The FULL responsibility for what happened at the capital rests entirely with democrats.

    The democrats conducted a lawless election that severely damaged peoples trust in t he election.

    Trump merely called out “the emporer has no clothes” – the election was naked lawlessness.

    Was the election tipped by Fraud ? I do not know – that depends on what you call fraud.

    I have little doubt if the election was conducted according to election laws and state constitutions the outcome would be different.

    Worse still – we may likely have this corrupt and lawless form of election for a long time to come.
    Almost a century of election fraud resulted in constitutional provisions in 28 of 50 states requiring secret ballots.

    Now that those constitutional provisions have failed – there is not even a speed bump to massive future election fraud of myriads of forms.

    There is no way that mailin elections can ever be sufficiently secure against large scale and difficult or impossible to detect fraud.

    Tens of Millions of people are justifiably angry about this election.

    The left wants to make this about losing – it is not. It is about the tactics that the left used to win that have put elections in this country back 100 years.

    And democrats and the left bear the full blame of that.

    The ends do NOT justify the means.

    1. Your article is premised about an assumption of competence; I see no reason for that assumption. These hacks were chosen for their political skill; why would that correlate with or suggest any skill as a trial lawyer? At best, having both skills would be a lucky chance. They truly believed that everybody would rush to their side; they were shocked when it didn’t happen; that’s not tanking. To continue your NFL analogy, I think Cam Newton was a terrible choice, but I don’t the Patriots tanked – they just made a mistake.

    2. “The FULL responsibility for what happened at the capital rests entirely with democrats.”

      Good to know that you don’t believe that the criminals who are being charged have any responsibility for their actions. I bet they’d love to have you on the jury.

  7. It’s all a bunch of nonsense. Now they are claiming the call to Lee, giving the phone to Tuberville, and McCarthy is some smoking gun evidence but that is more smoke and mirrors. When Trump told McCarthy that the rioters are more upset about the election than McCarthy it isn’t clear evidence that Trump “incited and/or fully supported an insurrection.” It can be just as easily argued that it shows the President was not fully aware of what was really happening, and how bad the situation was. The Defense also made an excellent argument that if Trump incited an insurrection through his words, the same people who are accusing him are more than guilty themselves.

    You just are not going to get people to convict Trump when the very people claiming some sort of higher ground seem so completely unaware of their own hypocrisy. The country is sitting back and listening to Democrats proclaim, “We cannot allow the President and Republicans to get away with telling lies about an election and ginning up sentiment to try and overturn the results of said election!!!!”

    Half the country is sitting there saying, “Oh, you mean like declaring an election to be hijacked and promoting a story about the President of the United States colluding with Russia to steal the election from Hillary Clinton, to gin up support for an FBI/CIA and/or impeachment coup to overturn the results of an election? You don’t say..Gee, Trump says the election was stolen from him and he must be impeached. Stacey Abrams falsely claims and election was stolen from her and she gets a Nobel Prize nomination.”

    You just can’t make stuff like the hypocrisy we see oozing from every pore of the media and Democrats. When the defense showed the statements of several Democrats, Hollywood actors and entertainers, and media pundits using the same language Trump did and worse Democrats cannot complain that it is an unfair comparison. Why not? Because someone on twitter posted up the words of Maxine Waters in her tirade about harassing Trump Admin. members, changing the name Trump to Cuomo, and leaving out that it was the words of Maxine Waters. Democrats immediately poured out of the woodwork, declared the words to be a call for violence, irresponsible, and deserving of a twitter ban. As soon as Democrats and others were made aware of who made the comments, and who they were directed at, Democrats immediately started deleting their denounciations so people wouldn’t recognize the utter hypocrisy on display.

    The lesson is that Trump will be acquitted and should be because Democrats not only are not applying their own outrage evenly, but don’t even seem to understand just how bad their double standards look to ordinary citizens. You know, citizens, like those disgusting peasants Anderson Cooper (a Vanderbilt) mocks and abhores because they are so low class they eat at chain restuarants. This impeachment is such a bad idea and they don’t even recognize that they are not going to win converts and are instead creating more polarization. If you think twitter banning conservative voices is doing anyone any favors you are about to get metaphorically punched in the face because that just puts dissent underground and makes it so a lot of people will be oblivious until something so tragic happens and there is no way to stop the snowball effect it will create.

    And worse, the media is the boy that cried wolf. While they pretend Trump is the one that destroyed the press it is themselves that are to blame. They have lied both blatantly and by omission. They knew damn well Cuomo was getting people killed, but applauded his speech at the DNC convention where he spoke about “Trump’s mismanagement” of COVID. Karma is getting him now. They knew about these swine over at the Lincoln Project and hid it until after the election and until the impeachment was already started. They knew that there were people attempting to blackmail a witness in the Kavanaugh case, but hid it until the hearings were over and Democrats failed to stop the confirmation. They fully accepted lies on just about every subject Adam Schiff has ever brought up. They knew the Hunter Biden laptop was not Russian misinformation and knew the FBI had Hunter under investigation for two years, but lied anyway. So don’t expect denounciations of Trump by the media have any effect because we have heard them, lie before. The media has damaged it’s own reputation so bad that unless 90 percent of the industry is completely purged a lot of us will never trust what they say again.

  8. It appears that Cuomo is all Fuss, Feathers and Fraud. Oh, perhaps Murder too.


    Apparently he covered up his slaughter of innocents in nursing homes because he was afraid the US Attorney might investigate.

    Another question is why was the governor sending plague patients into nursing homes when there was a barely used hospital ship in the harbor [courtesy of Trump] and an unused emergency tent hospital in Central Park [courtesy of a Christian organization that was insulted by the mayor for their efforts]?

    To this bunch, and in the impeachment process, it appears that political optics are much more important than lives of citizens or the welfare of the country.

    1. Take note how many leftists on this blog provided support for Cuomo yet defamed the governor of Florida. Florida has handled the crisis as good as the best and better than all the rest. Florida is more populous than NYS and has more senior citizens and I think more people in nursing homes.

      Cuomo saw to it a law was passed to protect him and others under him to be protected from criminal and civil law suits. I wonder if those laws will hold up in court.

      I remember when I pointed out the problem in NYS and the responses of the left trying to discount what I said. I even gave a link to the official NYS order to place Covid + patients into nursing homes that was later removed from easy access. The left on the net balked at anyone who said NYS and Cuomo weren’t doing the right things. The left even provided Cuomo with an Emmy and he wrote a book that tells people how wonderful he is and how he was such an excellent governor when it came to managing the Covid crisis.

      Cuomo is a killer.

      1. S. Meyer — Yes, I recall that you did a great job covering Cuomo and his Slaughter of The Innocents. Of course the DNC trolls attacked you for it but events are showing you were correct. Even big tech and media is having trouble hiding it now that Democrats are speaking out against Cuomo. I imagine that heartless thug has made enemies in his own party and perhaps now they see their chance to settle scores.

  9. The House Managers’ Concept of “Evidence” —

    Whatever means is necessary to satisfy our desire (get Trump). That means includes blatant dishonesty, including fabricating “evidence.”

    They doctored tweets, and intentionally mispronounced words: “calvary” as “cavalry.”

    They doctored the video of Trump’s speech.

    They constantly used the word “reportedly” (and its variations). In making a case in the real world, “reportedly” means: “I got nothing. Hopefully, you’ll swallow these rumors and innuendoes as evidence.”

    1. They didn’t intentionally mispronounce words. They assumed that “calvary” was a typo for “cavalry,” because people often mistype it, and “calvary” makes no sense in context.

      They took excerpts from video of Trump, just like Trump’s counsel took excerpts from video of other peopole’s statements. Do you object to both?

  10. What a difference a day makes!7]

    Yesterday. made Custer’s last gig look like a walk in the park when the Defense got their swing at the ball and knocked it right out of the park.

    I imagined I was hearing a chainsaw whacking some folks off right at their knees as the “Fight” video was playing.

    The one thing Politicians abhor is being shown running their big yaps when they get caught red handed doing exactly what they are accusing their rivals of doing.

    Did the Democrats really think they would be exempt from scrutiny by the defense and that the Defense would use their actual words and not magically edit out the inconvenient parts as they (Democrats) did and do?

    Shortly after the last barrage of arrows flew….and found their targets…..word leaked that even Censure lacked enough support to pass…much less Conviction on the Impeachment Article.

    So later today…it becomes another win for Trump and a another self imposed loss for the Democrats.

    There is nothing so bitter as to build upon failure….but then the Democrats are not rational people….even the Race Card got Trumped.

    When they accused the Proud Boys of being a White Supremacist group…..headed by a person of color mind you….and mention of Slavery showed up…..then is when I knew it was all over but he shouting.

  11. the reality is that the House Manager have never desired to achieve a guilty verdict.

    this was “put on” merely to create another form of public shaming towards President Trump…To satisfy the interests in creating another angle in a very public medium to renounce him as a political influence.

    Why would it be important for Democrats to attack and to antagonize and demonize the former President, given he is no longer in a position of power?

    well for several reasons:

    a. They cannot see a world they can control that allows for non institutional political agencies to challenge their policies. Outsiders are the greatest threat to the power they have on the agenda.
    b. They cannot control a future where a congress includes “third party” ideas. For a very long time, political power has been enormously beneficial with only two “parties” ..a third forces them to compromise and is seen as major setback and delay to the “reset” they have decided is best for …the country? (or them?)
    c. They cannot accept criticism and exposure from hard charging strong leaders who identify with a wide scope and majority of people who have a very strong attachment to rule of law and order.

    The House Managers have accepted from day one, this impeachment and trial would never be successful,…not on the merits and certainly not on the obvious consequences they themselves realize would occur.

    The LAST thing these corruptors would desire is to create a new standard that would have the effect of aiming the same standard at every single person holding office and to be impeached for behavior that is unsavory but does not reach the level of criminal conduct. They know they are playing with fire and the consequences NOW and at any time in the future would have enormous deleterious effects on their own party. Particularly at this time, given the democrats have just achieved majority in both House and Senate. It’s a precarious situation for them, because in the great scheme of things, there is ONLY one way power can shift having “made it to the top”..Forcing a new set of standards would be foolish. And any fool can imagine (and act) on the same horrible line of reasoning to go after one or more of their own.

    There is “some” advantages of taking this impeachment on and making a show of it, but they are also learning with great angst now, that this is very bad optics and the blowback for not getting win, and showing obvious defects and failures to meet even minimal standards of conduct in pursuing this case isn’t just humiliating and embarassing, but it has now had the effect of creating unforced errors that in no small way have cast doubts to the legitimacy of the current installment.

    Many people are learning the contempt for law they people hold…and the hypocrisy in which they stake out their claims of moral authority.

    are we truly surprised?

    the laundry list of defects well known by these corruptors is very long. There is a pattern of abuse here no one can ignore.

    getting a win isn’t the goal..they are now in damage control mode, trying to figure out how to back out of this thing without creating more harm.

    pathetic. but predictable.

    1. Yadda yadda yadda.

      Trump was impeached because anyone with an IQ over 120 knows he is guilty as Sin.

      He is a wife cheating, p**** grabbing, student defrauding, charity-stealing, draft-dodging, tax-evading, everyone insulting charlatan, fraud and con man who couldn’t con his way out of a pandemic.

      America needed leadership and Trump failed.


      Americans came to their senses , realize they had made a mistake and so Trump lost the election fair and square.

      He knows that but he still lied to his deplorable followers that the election was stolen.

      And because of those lies a mob of mullet-headed, morally financially and intellectually bankrupt proles stormed the capitol, ransacked it and killed more than five people.

      That’s why they impeached him.

      To detail in front of the whole world just how monstrous the vulgarian candidate is and was.

      To remind the world of what Trump did. And to in some way assure he never runs for president again.

      Simple as that.

      The dumbest 50% of America elected their president with the expected result: economic, humanitarian and constitutional catastrophe.

      1. your opinions will never influence or change the minds and hearts of any of the 80 million plus voters who stand against the democratic agenda.

        nor would anyone with a acknowledgement of facts, take any of your “facts” about economic humanatarian and catastrophic realities unless there had alcohol levels above 120 BAC…

        lets face it..you KNOW Biden is going to blow it…again and again…you know this…we know this…hell, he’s already tanked the economic just by suggesting that big oil take up a hobby.

        we have known this and warned you people about it over and over and over.

        and yet, you are the electorate in your hate and crazen state of mind, so offended by a man who is very much like just about every single candidate that YOUR side has ever chosen, guilty of the same kinds of defects, cannot see the advantages then, or now, to get a person in that office who can make our country once again, economically and politically the powerhouse in a true global sense of the meaning.

        you folks drifted….you amuse yourselves with moral principle, cancel culture, cheating at every situation to grab power.

        and that you have succeeded, by fraud, and by deceit, and have installed the most divisive, incapable, ambulatory, stagnant and antagonistic morons in every corner of the nation where it matters most: who are you then to blame for the epic failures that will have long lasting enduring effects, on you, on everyone?

        you got the power..you have it…and as sure as the sun rises tomorrow the predictable disaster of your administration will play out.

        and why? because you insisted that anyone..anyone but trump…well, you did just that.

        you elected TWO people who on there best day, could not manage a pawn shop.

        you did that.


        1. Talk about IQ over 120…..that’s a nothing burger……Trump is a genius with IQ 156!!!!!! That is super genius!!!!!! And he is one of the greatest military strategists of all time.


          1. Yeah just like Hitler was a great military strategist.

            I keep hoping Trump will have the same effect on the Republican party that Hitler had on the Nazi party.

            Still hoping.

            1. Ben, Hitler, as in of the National Socialist German Workers Party, otherwise known as the Nazis?

              What kind of reprobate compares a man with a beloved Jewish family, and close ties to Israel, with an antisemitic mass murderer? I mean, are you sincerely making that comparison?

              Hitler disarmed the Jews. Democrats oppose the 2nd Amendment and dismiss claims of self defense.
              Hitler pitted the nation against Jews and political dissidents, deeming them subhuman. Democrats have claimed Republicans are evil reprobates for decades. They have pushed an anti-white anti straight mail agenda for years.
              The Brown Shirts, or Sturmabteilung, helped Hitler rise to power by physically assaulting those who disagreed with him. Democrats assault Republicans with such regularity that many are afraid to leave the house wearing a MAGA hat. There are myriad videos of Democrats sinking so low as to attack children wearing MAGA.
              Hitler pushed a strong government, at the expense of individual rights, for the “greater good”, as he defined. Democrats push a strong government, at the expense of individual rights, to fight climate change, and they see “white supremacy” everywhere. Democrats oppose the 2nd Amendment, free speech (1st Amendment), routinely bash Christians (freedom of religion), and they wish to do away with the Electoral College for a power grab. They also openly plot to expand the Supreme Court with the purpose of stuffing it with Leftist activists. Again, another despotic power grab.

              Meanwhile, conservatives fight to defend the Constitution, individual freedom, and to keep government limited.

              Neither Fascism nor Nazism could exist with a limited government, strong individual rights, and the right to bear arms.

              But both could thrive just fine in the direction Democrats would take us.

              Fool, if you oppose Fascism and the rise of the next Hitler, then start voting conservative.

              1. I’m riding e-bikes down Colony Beach right now and will answer in full soon. For now just let me say you are completely full of beans. And have it completely bass ackward.

                1. Ben:

                  Deny it all you want. But if I have it backwards, that means conservatives oppose the 2nd Amendment, personal liberty, and free speech, and want a strong government at the expense of individual rights, which is patently absurd.

                  Denial. It’s not just a river in Egypt.

      2. Gee. And here I thought there would be a shortage of pathetic little leftist tears after the results of the most recent national election.

        1. I can’t imagine going through life as naive and gullible as you are and as disappointed by my political party and ex-president as you are.

      3. Please explain exactly what Trump policies caused the “economic humanitarian and constitution catastrophe” and what actual catastrophes occurred.

        1. Ummmmmm gee.

          If you would turn off the Kardashians and Home Shopping Network and tune into the real world you would learn that Trump’s complete lack of a response to coronavirus has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people and incalculable economic losses.

          Tens of trillions of dollars? Hundreds of trillions of dollars?

          Not to mention the millions of Americans on unemployment and thousands of businesses closing forever.

          Is this trumps fault?


          The buck stops with the president and Trump completely but to this up.

          He is a con man but he couldn’t Khan his way out of a pandemic

          He has zero plan for Coronavirus and whatever action he took was ineffectual.

          The Obama Administration left him a 69-page Playbook but he used that as toilet paper and instead preferred to thumb his lips with one hand and tweet about ratings for The Bachelor with the other.

          And argue with dr. Fauci and blame everyone else for his own screw-ups.

          Do some reading.

      4. Do you have a vaccine in less then 1 year? Yes or no? Have over 60,000 people died from the Virus since Biden took office? Yes or no? Did Tens of thousands die in Blue States like NY that didn’t need to die? Yes or no? and you say Trump failed in his virus response..give me a break…

        1. Of course 60,000 people have died since Biden took office because he inherited a runaway coronavirus that was allowed to run away by the Trump Administration.

          They didn’t have a clue how to deal with it.

          They ignored the carefully prepared 69 page play book left behind by the Obama Administration

          Huffng Lysol?.

          Have you seen Dr. Fauci on TV?

          He’s the most relieved person in America.

          He suffered four years of professional and moral constipation because he was under the thumb of a fat stupid corrupt moron.

          But now he’s taken a giant Trump and he can speak and do his job appropriately.

          Which they are doing.

          America is about to see what leadership is all about after a four-year Dark Ages.

    2. Or they don’t want to let slip by the precedent of a shartmeister calling in a lynch mob to overthrow an election he clearly lost. So I guess there’s that.


    3. The Democrats got some video clips they can use in the 2022 election, even 2024 if somehow Trump is a candidate. I am sure they also did some fundraising off being anti-Trump.

      Maybe the biggest thing, though, is that hating on Trump and his supporters is the main thing holding the Democratic party together. Without Trump, the old guard mainstream and the prog wing can’t stand each other, and the big ethnic minorities are waking up to how they are just servants on the Democratic plantation or hacienda. Keeping Trump as their focus delays the reckoning.

      1. No the Democrats want to put Trump in the rearview mirror and forget about him – while they clean up an even bigger mess then Bush43 left behind.

        They want to look forward not back.

        I think the biggest focus of the Democrats is the Green New Deal.

        Because it’s a good deal.

        The Obama Administration loaned Tesla $465 million dollars to modernize the Fremont plan to build the S.

        Tesla paid that money loan back 5 years early and that loan has created tens of thousands of jobs and hundreds of billions i wealth.

        Did Trump launch anything even remotely that successful? No he did not.

        Thats the Green New Deal and Biden and team want to continue it.

        Republicans screw it up. Democrats clean it up.

  12. Mr. Turley, are you saying that your belief that Donald Trump’s rhetoric is responsible for the breaching of the Capitol Building is built on Rock and not an emotional response?

    1. It’s very simple: If Trump had never lied about the election fraud and if he hadn’t brought it up in speech after speech and pounded it into the limited brains of his proletarian, mullet-headed, emotionally, intellectually and financially bankrupt mob, would they have stormed the capitol and ransacked it and been responsible for the deaths of five people and the imprisonment of scores?

      Nope, it would not have happened without Trump mouthing off about election fraud and Mike Pence and two dozen other things: ergo he is culpable and responsible and should be impeached.

      No question. None.

      That raid and ransacking were a direct consequence of Trump’s false and irresponsible words actions, and anyone who says different is indulging themselves in a canard.

      And is either patently dishonest, or shockingly stupid.

      1. If you are correct then the DC Democratic Party prosecuting attorney is himself negligent for not charging Trump criminally. Is he lying or stupid as you claim? If you are correct that attorney should be impeached and replaced with one who charges Trump.

        But Trump faces NO criminal charge and has not been called even to an interview, the first step. The DC prosecutor said he considers such charges and he lies through his teeth as has every lying progressive including you who wrongly lie and claim Trump committed hundred of crimes he has indeed not committed including incitement.

        As Turley has posted, one of the likely reasons the Democratic prosecutors do not charge Trump in this case is because he would win, be vindicated and prove your lies and those of every Dem. operative.

        I don’t like Trump at all; he is scum. You, Pelosi, Swallwell, Schumer and Schiff are just as bad or worse.

      2. 80 plus million AMERICAN WHO VOTED LAWFULLY, WHO OBSERVED THE LAW, did not need President Trump to alert them to defect, irregularities and fraud and loopholes and constitutional failures to understand what was going on.

        any sane person could imagine it.

        we would have been completely surprised and shocked if President Trump didn’t call that out.

        Your view of your political opponents is fully invested in this idea that everything here belongs to President Trump.

        that is the single biggest failure of your party. Trump was the natural result of decades of dissatisfaction and grievances unheard, rejected and silenced by your party and even those within the GOP/RNC.

        and that continues.

        this will not end well, because they people have been cheated out of representation.

        and it does not matter at this point if that can be proven or not.

        revolutions have been initiated in the basis of very real harm.

        your new installment has immediately picked up where Obama has left off.

        I am here to tell you and others in clear sunshine….there is no going back..

        what happened in the 6th is just but a one day peek into what happens next.

        it will be horrible…it will even be unfair…but that is how real human beings respond, having been ignored, abused, rejected, shouted down, censored, and cheated.

        it’s not about FACTS anymore.

        the democratic process has failed MILLIONS.

        you really expect them to take it like good little boys and not go werewolf?

        wanna hear another joke muuurrraaay?

  13. This is the Democratic Party. The Party of Stupid to the rescue for Trump. Move over Hank Johnson, Stacey got it covered: “… and why he must be convicted and acquitted.”

    1. A money-grubbing, soul-less, ambulance-chasing personal injury lawyer.

      Should have known.

      I live in Malibu and am surrounded by people like you and to a man they all look like they are dying of something awful.

      Because, deep down, they hate what they do and hate what they’ve become.

      Of course you support Trump.

      And of course you despise the people who stand up to him because they have the integrity you abandoned decades ago.

      1. So you agree with Turley’s article that Pelosi apparently intentionally tanked this case. Thanks!

        Why are you and Nancy so terrified of this criminal drifter Trump?

        1. A surfer dude who has written two dozen books and is descended from some of the smarter people this country has produced.

          My great-uncle Fordyce Tuttle was vice president of Kodak from the thirties into the forties.

          My grandfather Clifton Tuttle was a physicist for Kodak who helped to crack the Japanese purple code during World War II and worked on the Manhattan Project.

          My great uncle Sid Schafer was a wildcatter who worked alongside J Paul Getty and Howard Hughes, made a fortune and lived in River Oaks.

          My great-uncle Joseph Schafer was a history teacher at University of Oregon for 20 years, wrote fundamental text books on the history of the Pacific Northwest and was director of the Wisconsin Historical Society.

          That’s the ancestry.

          I thought I was just a dumbass surfer dude but it turns out I’m a lot smarter than that.

          Smart enough to recognize a sad, Trump supporting ambulance chaser when I see one.

          1. Smart surfer dude — Congrats on having smart ancestors. You do know that descendants tend to regress toward the mean so whatever your ancestors may have been it is likely you are no more than an ordinary Malibu beach bum, extraordinary only in that you seem to have a poisoned soul. Your comments here make that the most likely case.

            1. Ordinary Malibu Beach Bums don’t write two dozen books.

              I don’t hang around with surfers anymore.

              They’re dumb and might as be Republicans.

              Surfing was a fun thing to do when I was young.

              And I was paid for 10 years to do nothing but that and write about it.

              Very adventurous.

              Because of surfing I had an audience with the king of Tonga, I got to fly out to the USS Independence and hang out with John Milius as he was shooting Flight of the intruder.

              I’ve been to Fiji Norway Ireland Wales England Brazil Spain France Portugal most of the Hawaiian Islands Tonga Samoa because of surfing.

              And the chicks!!!!

              Now I guess I just have to be an intellectual who shoots down the idiocy of the Republican Party.

              I forgot to mention my great-great-grandfather Mathias Schafer was best friends with Karl Marx at Kaiser Wilhelm gymnasium in Trier Germany in 1835. They were bros. They exchanged letters for years until Mathias didn’t dig with Marx had to say and burned all the letters.


          2. ” surfer dude who has written two dozen books and is descended from some of the smarter people this country has produced.”
            Flying on borrowed wings, I see, Send those comic book tittles. I do like Thor and the Avengers.

      2. “you support Trump” BM, all your comments have demonized individuals who represent a classical liberal / conservative / libertarian approach to the political economy.

        First one demonizes the individual which makes it possible…

        ‘Jews were beaten in the streets, not by Nazi soldiers but by their neighbors…even by children. Because history is edited, most people today don’t realize that to get to the point where Nazi soldiers could easily round up thousands of Jews, the government first made their own neighbors hate them simply for being Jews. How is that any different from hating someone for their political views?’

        1. Demonizing people who voted for and continue to support Trump.

          You embarrass me.

          You embarrass yourselves.

          Anyone with an IQ over 120 has to seriously question the intelligence and integrity of anyone who supports Trump.

          The guy is an obvious fraud, charlatan and a con man who appeals to the weak and the Hopeless and the sad and the failed.

          1. What do we get when we listen to Ben Marcus? Invective and bombastic behavior from an essentially unschooled and unintelligent low brow guy. I didn’t know that TDS caused psychotic behavior and delusions of grandeur.

            Doesn’t this creep sound like another creep we already know? Jan F. with a slew of aliases in between where the most prominent one of today is Joe Friday.

              1. Anonymous the Stupid. You don’t even understand the meaning of lecture. You are as Stupid as the sh1t in a dog park. You seem to have an affinity for Joe Friday tactics. How did that help you with the Covid disaster?

            1. S. Meyer– I agree. There is more than a whiff of a delusion of grandeur in that morning BM.

            2. What you get is the truth, but like Jack Nicholson said: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMzd40i8TfA

              Low brow?

              Low brow people don’t have the brains or the money to live where I live.

              When I ride my bike to get coffee in the morning I pass homes belonging to the guy who started Public Storage whose horse won the Kentucky Derby and Horse of the Year, one of the founders of Google, the CEO of Verily, the owners of the Detroit Pistons, Jonah Hill, Rob Reiner and several other Oscar winners, Flea and several other rock stars and lots of anonymous gazillionaires.

              Low brow? You’re low brown.

              People like you are only allowed in here if you have a rake or a pipe wrench in your hand.

              1. BM: Low brow? You’re low brown.

                People like you are only allowed in here [Malibu] if you have a rake or a pipe wrench in your hand.


                Looks like BM is also racist.

                This is something that is usually hidden but often present with Progressives beneath the ‘caring’ mask, like the one dead, white man they still love: Karl Marx. But then he didn’t hid his racism.

                Kudos for having smart neighbors. I have an Asian neighbor. Does that make me Asian.

                1. “Low brown?” Did I write “Low brown?”

                  I don’t hate Mexicans and Latins, I think everyone should own one.

                  You have Asian neighbors? Sorry.

                  As for Marx: My great great grandfather Mathias Schafer was best friends with Karl Marx in Trier in 1835.

                  They both went to Kaiser Wilhelm Gymnasium.

                  They exchanged letters for years until Mathias didn’t dig what Marx had to say, and burned all the letters.

                  Ooops. One letter from Marx is now worth 20,000 pounds at Christies.

                  No, Euros! No, pounds!

                  Whatever. Marx was right about some things.

                  He was right that the industrial revolution and capitalism would create an unequal distribution of wealth.

                  He was wrong that humans would gravitate toward pure socialism.

                  We don’t. We gravitate towards pure capitalism.

                  Humans are not created equal – that is a fairy tale canard – so we compete, and that is what capitalism is all about.

                  We are a competitive species more than a cooperative species.

                  Just the way our brains are wired.

                  1. BM: ““Low brown?” Did I write “Low brown?”

                    I don’t hate Mexicans and Latins, I think everyone should own one.”


                    That is the impression you gave. Thank you for repeating it. Racist.

                    Now tell us what you think of the Congressional Black Congress.

                    Do you think everyone should own one of them too?

                    1. I went to a gun store the other day, told the guy behind the desk I wanted a hunting rifle.

                      He said, “What kind of hunting rifle? What are you going to hunt?:

                      I said, “Cans.”

                      He said, “Cans? What kind of cans?”

                      I said, “MexiCANS, AfriCANS, Puerto RiCANS.”


                      There, now I’ve lowered myself to cracking a joke a Trump lover would appreciate.

                      Congressional Black Congress?

                      Good on them.

                      I think Obama was the best thing since white bread. Sorry, sliced bread.

                      I’m reading A Promised Land right now. He’s a class act.

                      I emailed his sister Maya in Hawaii after I delivered an eulogy to a well-known surfer who died of cancer.

                      Said my speech for Brock was inspired by Barack.

                      I don’t judge on race, I judge on intelligence, class, sophistication, integrity, etc.

                      I hang out with AC a lot of mornings, my brother was with Ray Charles for many years and my roommate for a while was Charmaine Sylvers.

              2. I believe you. Why wouldn’t anyone believe that you live in Malibu, your Chevy Malibu. Were you run out of your apartment you were sharing with a bunch of other people? Next time pay your rent. Get a job.

                1. A job?

                  Who needs a job?

                  I bought TSLA at $370 in the middle of March

                  Those shares are worth $4000 each now.

                  My money earns a lot more money than I ever could.

                  If I had a job I would be getting in the way of some poor sap who needs a job.

                  I write books and speeches.

                  Right now I’m making a custom crossword puzzle for Nancy Pelosi’s 80th birthday.

                  She does the NYT crossword every day and my puzzle will be mostly about her, and illustrated.

                  A way of thanking her for standing up to a tsunami of BS from a nation of know-nothing, ignorant, lost prole f@#$tards like you.

                  As for Chevy Malibu: A few years ago some dudes from Goodby Silverstein came to town to research a commercial on the 2018 Chevy Malibu, or whatever that year was.

                  They wanted to know if the modern Chevy Malibu had anything to do with the town, because the original Chevy Malibu was a badass beach cruiser and super stylee.

                  I took these guys to some of my bigshot neighbors and the consensus was: “Not even the help would drive a Chevy Malibu.”

                  It’s just an anonymous hubby mommy car and indistinguishable for a dozen other cars.

                  Although I rented one to do a photo road trip from Seattle to La Jolla for a book and it was a decent car.

                  There are a lot of hot cars old and new around Malibu and one of the hottest is a 1960s-era red Chevy Malibu convertible.

                  Here it is, as pretty as an automobile can be: https://www.instagram.com/p/B_WdBP7nfOa/

                  1. “A job? Who needs a job?”

                    I guess you don’t. Living in your car (Chevy Malibu) is cheap and riding a bike doesn’t require gas.

                    “I bought TSLA at $370 in the middle of March
                    Those shares are worth $4000 each now.”

                    If it were true you would be thanking Trump

                    1. Thanking Trump because TSLA jumped from $370 to $4000?

                      I don’t think so.

                      It is true that TSLA dropped so low mid-March 2020 because of the panic from Coronavirus, and the fear and uncertainty inspired by a pandemic sweeping a country that put an absolute buffoon in charge.

                      That’s why Tesla was so cheap last March.

                      I told everyone I knew, rich and poor, to buy! Buy! Buy!

                      But the stock skyrocketed despite Trump I would say.

                      The fact that Tesla stock did what it did in the middle of a worldwide panic and economic downturn is a testament to just how strong that stock and company is.

                      One friend of mine bought 3000 shares at $370 which means those shares were worth 3000 x $4500 = $13,500,000 when TSLA hit $900.

                      So he made $12,500,000 in 11 months for hitting SEND.


                      As for Trump and Tesla: It bothered me that he was always barking about Making America Great Again and yet he ignored the one company doing exactly that.

                      Tesla is kicking ass and leading the way in the 21st Century the way Kodak and Ford and IBM and the great American companies kicked ass and lead the way in the 20th Century.

                      The Obama administration loaned Tesla $465 million to modernize the Fremont plant and build the S.

                      Tesla paid that loan back five years early and that money has created tens of thousands of jobs and hundreds of billions in wealth.

                      That’s MAGA but did Trump ever breathe the words Tesla?

                      No, because Tesla is in California and California wants nothing to do with his sorry ass.

                      He’s a fraud. Thank Odin he is gone.

                      Biden is all about the Green New Deal, and Tesla is a shining example of what is possible.

                    2. So far Ben hasn’t shown us much of anything.

                      Intelligence? Read his rantings
                      Class? A braggart.
                      Rich? Talks big but carries small.

                      Not worthwhile.


                    3. Whoever he is, he’s overplaying the role. What’s surprising is people are getting sucked in to responding.

                    4. Kurtz?

                      When I worked at Surfer Magazine it was kind of a bigshot deal.

                      I got a ride in the COD from Coronado out to the USS Independence to watch John Milius shoot Flight of the Intruder.

                      We walked and talked and I told him that in the history of inspired Hollywood lightbulbs, turning Heart of Darkness into a Vietnam parable was Top 10 in my book.

                      Idea but also execution.

                      Then I got catapulted off the next day – in the COD.

                      There’s more to this story that involves Todd Phillips and Joker if that’s not too boorish.

                    5. Young, I don’t think so though one can never tell.

                      Anonymous the Stupid has used multiple aliases including his pretend friends that he lists under anonymous so he can pat himself on the back and make himself look like an army. I don’t generally respond to Anonymous the Stupid except with a generic alias. That way people immediately know I am conversing with an idiot. They can immediately toss the post and save time since he litters the blog with nastiness, lies and ignorance. He does that from early in the morning to late at night. I am more or less retired so I can waste as much time as I want while I study him like a lab rat.

                      To some others that have little useful content, for the same reason, I use an anonymous reply but sign as SM.

              3. “When I ride my bike to get coffee in the morning”

                What happened? Did your Malibu run out of gas?

                  1. I actually do kind of live in a shed but it’s a lovely, converted shed with a view and it’s in the Malibu.

                    I guarantee it’s nice than whatever proletarian nowhere suburb you’re stuck in.

                  2. He probably does dumpster diving to find the best used coffee grounds a dumpster can provide.

                1. No I upgraded from an Old and Busted SONDORS Original with a 350 watt motor to the New Hotness: A SONDORS XS with a 750-watt motor, hydraulic brakes, stainless steel chain.

                  A spectacularly good bike for under $2000 and I even got a discount on that because I’m just so damned cool.

                  And it’s FAST: https://www.instagram.com/p/CK5HRLOnnUl/

                  1. I know , and you upgraded your home in Malibu, Chevy Malibu without gas. You had it washed.


                    1. You’re lame. You’re not even a very good insulter.

                      Can only imagine in what backward ass, know-nothing, impoverished, suburban shithole Red State you live in.

                    2. Moi aussi.

                      I’ve lived in mansions and I’ve lived in shacks.

                      This was our palace in San Clemente:


                      Hoop de do, I like the shack better.

                      It’s not where you are, it’s where you’re at.

                      So anonymous, show a tiny little bit of sack and at least say what state you are in.

                      From your ignorance I am guessing it’s the south.

                      Maybe Texas?

                      They’re all eat up with the dumbass down there.

                      Texas or maybe Arizona or some other nowhere land.

                    3. Home value $1.65M.

                      One has to laugh. You don’t even brag well. That is not terribly expensive where property values are high.



                    4. What’s the expression from Oscar Wilde? “A cynic knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing.”

                      That was a very nice house, I just don’t like San Clemente and I don’t like Orange County because it’s loaded with snarky little phonies like you.

                    5. BM, you were bragging about how expensive your home was so I decided to inform you of what expensive is not where property values are high. I have interests in real estate.

                      ““A cynic knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing.””

                      It is obvious you don’t know the value of anything based on your bragging nature. You exposed your values on the totem pole you have built for us to look at. Low value. Your life is based around materialism.


                    6. No my life is based around experience production and accomplishment. If I were materialistic I would still be in my fancy house in San Clemente.

                    7. You portray yourself quite differently and you portray your political beliefs quite boorishly.


                    8. “Pearls before swine.“

                      Pearls are induced by irritants like you but not all pearls have value. You provide little more than a grain of sand. I’ll take the spare ribs.


            3. Once again, Allan projects his own weaknesses onto others.

              “Invective and bombastic behavior from an essentially unschooled and unintelligent low brow guy. I didn’t know that TDS caused psychotic behavior and delusions of grandeur. Doesn’t this creep sound like another creep we already know?”

              1. If brains were dynamite this guy couldn’t blow his nose.

                Who is he?

                What state does he live in?

                He not too bright, but then he’s a Trumpista so what should we expect?

                Trump supporters are all a bunch of dopes wearing funny hats riding Trump Casino buses on their way to the slaughter.

                They think Trump is going to make them rich.

                He’s not.

                He’s only going to enrich himself.

                    1. Since you are acting more like Anonymous the Stupid and repeating yourself, I’ll repeat my prior response.

                      “Pearls before swine.“

                      Pearls are induced by irritants like you but not all pearls have value. You provide little more than a grain of sand. I’ll take the spare ribs.


                    2. “And yet you did not argue when I said you were swine.
                      Can I take that as a “Yes!” then?”

                      Yes, I’ll take the spare ribs over the phony pearls.


                    3. That particular Anonymous also posts under a number of other names, including Allan and S. Meyer (hence the “SM” at the end of his comment). He’s a vile troll. If he takes a dislike to you, expect him to follow you around, insulting and lying about you. Denigrating others is how he entertains himself.

              2. Right, Anonymous the Stupid. We have followed you for years on this blog and almost everything you said has been proven wrong.

                I am waiting for you to tell us about Cuomo’s Covid campaign and how wonderful it was. He got an Emmy you know.


          2. “Four years ago, I called the 2016 election the Sophie’s choice election, and I barely got myself to vote for Hillary Clinton, who I could not stand. This year I put the pen directly over Biden’s name and could not get the pen to move towards the paper. This was a bit of a surprise. That’s never happened to me before, where I could not vote for my own party. Was it true that I had become a Trump supporter? I tried the same ouija board maneuver, and this time I couldn’t even get the pen to hover over Trump’s name. What was happening? I won’t bore you with who I voted for, because it doesn’t matter. I am only telling you this because I failed this basic test and threw my vote to someone who will not win. And with that, I will promise you that I will not judge you for your vote. You cannot do worse than I did, so I have no way to blame you for whichever way you choose to fail.”

            ~Eric Weinstein, Managing Director of Thiel Capital. Ph.D. in mathematical physics from Harvard.


            1. PR:

              “And with that, I will promise you that I will not judge you for your vote. You cannot do worse than I did, so I have no way to blame you for whichever way you choose to fail.” ~Eric Weinstein, Managing Director of Thiel Capital. Ph.D. in mathematical physics from Harvard.”
              Paralysis by analysis – the bane of the morally lost, statist academic.

              1. Mespo,
                Eric Weinstein does not strike me as morally lost, and, he is most definitely not a statist. Unlike far too many on the left, he is willing to talk to people on ‘the other side of the aisle’. He had an excellent interview with Glenn Beck, actually, not too long ago.

                “The key thing, though, is our culture is being destroyed. And, I don’t know how to say this. We have to go non-coercive, we have to respect our past, and we’ve got to get the boot of oppression off the number of people who can’t figure out”

                This is not the sort of thing a statist would say. There are things I think he hasn’t considered, things he may have missed, but I think having him, Glenn Beck, Joe Rogan, Glenn Lowry, and others in conversation will help pull things back in balance and get Us going back in the right direction again.

                He has spoken out against the Big Tech censorship, too.

                Why was he unable to vote for either Biden or Trump? That is a good question and there are quite a few people who also could not vote for either. For most, I do not think it was a case of over-analysis.

                    1. You are not even attempting to address the discussion. Do you agree or disagree that they should talk to each other?

                  1. PS Prairie, Eric is definitely morally lost if he can’t tell the difference between Hillary and Trump.

                    1. Of course he can tell the difference between Hillary and Trump. He didn’t like them for different reasons.

                  2. You missed the point. He was willing to speak to someone on the other side of the aisle. He wasn’t arrogant about his own intellect either in the course of this conversation or any other that I’ve heard. Neither did he demean someone who wasn’t as academically pedigreed as he.

                    1. Prairie, I am all for discussing issues with people of different opinions, which is why I hang out here. You might notice that I don’t advocate shooting anybody or seceding as a sizable portion of the right wingers here do. I also try to have reasonable non-personal discussions with some posters here who seem to reciprocate. I have also written numerous times expressing my sincere belief – acted on everyday – that many people of the right, and even Trump supporters, are basically decent people. I work with some and am friends with some. While I continue to respect them as people – unlike say Karen who is constantly telling us how bad Democrats are because of what some nutcase somewhere said – I will not back down on my scorn for anyone who voted for Trump twice, for that act. I will not pretend respect for that act or their opinion regarding it.


                    2. AnonJF,
                      “I will not back down on my scorn for anyone who voted for Trump twice, for that act. I will not pretend respect for that act or their opinion regarding it.


                      I think people’s reasons for voting for Trump are often fairly complicated.

                      I’m curious why you disagree with Eric Weinstein on this? Why are you scornful? That is a very charged word.

                    3. Prairie, no doubt murderers sometimes have complicated reasons for their act _ it’s not a mitigating factor. There is no excuse for voting for Trump twice.


          3. Mr. Ben Marcus – non-partisan independent here. I came on to offer an opinion on 14th Amendment, which I believe is the campaign brewing today. I saw your thread of comments and read them and the replies. Not my topic. However. Here is something which is completely misunderstood, and it may really be important someday to you and others.

            So, while I am really not interested in that overall thread, I am concerned on this point right here: “appeals to the weak and the Hopeless and the sad and the failed.” Mr. Ben Marcus, you write that like it is a “bad thing.” Like appealing to the “weak, hopeless, sad, and failed” was a moral, ethical, and (of course) political failure. That is really troubling, because it is the root of the problem we have had. When our representative democracy and our political leadership no longer thinks it has to care about the voice of the “weak, hopeless, sad, and failed,” then it is our democractic culture which has truly failed, rather than selected political figures.

            Should a representative democracy only aspire to have leaders that care only about the voice of the “strong, hopeful, happy, and successful?” Should the “weak, hopeless, sad, and failed,” be viewed as a lower class, even not truly “equal” fellow human beings, let alone members of a citizenry (in USA or elsewhere)? Here is the heart of the democracy problem. Because the idea that a representative democracy can only aspire to be a voice for those with institutional advocates, privilege, and protection – is no democracy at all. Reconsider.

      3. “because they have the integrity” to elect a lifelong crooked career politician with Dementia, whose son is a proven incestuous pedophile?!

        That’s really special.

        1. Biden’s net worth is like $9 million dollars.

          My neighbors have guest houses worth more than $9 million dollars.

          If Biden is a crook he’s not a very good one.

          And the dementia thing is just a cheap shot.

          If you turn off all the screaming voices in your head and listen to Biden he speaks softly but he makes sense – not that you would recognize good sense if it jumped into bed with you.

          And who cares about Hunter Biden?

          He’s not the president.

          Joe is and he and his team are going to put the country back on its feet just as Obama did after Bush 43 s*** all over the table.

          Republicans screw it up. Democrats clean it up.

          1. “Biden’s net worth is like $9 million dollars.”

            And your actually attempting to present yourself as an intelligent member of a wealthy well heeled family?!

            Ever heard of the Panama Papers? Does the term “offshore tax haven” ring a bell with you?

            $9 million doesn’t even cover the down payment Old Uncle Joe received from MBNA for sponsoring the 2005 Bankruptcy Bill.


            You’re just another trolling poseur, Ben.

    2. Last time I looked, the Democratic party controlled the House and the Senate and the White House – all of which were let slip by an idiotic Republican party who backed a charlatan and conman for president, and who lasted only four years.

      They had it all and they dropped the ball.

      When I was younger the Republicans were as money-grubbing, self-righteous, phony and arrogant as they are now, but at least they made the trains run on time.

      Not any more. Everything the Republican party touches turns to S#I+, and now it’s the country.

      Republicans screw it up. Democrats clean it up.

      1. Your hero Hillary really fixed Libya, Syria, Yemen, etc, right? Are you one of the people doing open slave trading in Tripoli? “We came, we saw, he (Gadaffi) died!” In this case “died” means that Hillary’s so-called “moderate militants” anal raped Gadaffi then beheaded him. Sweet, huh?

        BTW, your other hero Obama, who incinerated an American citizen 16 year old with a drone missile gave us Trump and a GOP lead Congress idiot. Obama who promised “no boots on the ground” in Syria then started another military excursion there. The guy who insured that Dick Cheney about dozens of other international war felons got clean away with murder and torture of “terror” prisoners. Who charged and threated to charge more journalists than any other POTUS.

        1. The Middle East is a hopeless quagmire and a bloody religious tribal mess.

          No matter what Uncle Sam does there it’s not going to change or affect anything much.

          Obama and Hillary recognized that and got us out of there as quickly as they could.

          The two wars of revenge in Iraq and Afghanistan War cost $10 billion dollars a month, thousands of American lives and didnt change squat.

          Although we did get Hussein that was good. And we did get bin Laden.

          No matter who we back or support or kill someone just as bad will rise up.

          We could have lined up every member of ISIS against the wall and shot them in the head and another group would rise up.

          The Middle East is a quagmire and a waste of time.

          Obama and Hillary got us out of there and didn’t leave Trump anything to do. He fired some Tpmahawk missiles at a parking lot and assassinated some poor sap at a Chuck-E-Cheese.

          1. “The Middle East is a hopeless quagmire and a bloody religious tribal mess.

            No matter what Uncle Sam does there it’s not going to change or affect anything much.”

            Trump has been nominated for 3 Nobel Peace Prizes for the historic peace deals made under his presidency. Four historic peace deals between Arab countries and Israel. Peace breaking out all over the ME. Historic.

            1. Israel and the UAE?

              Who cares?

              When’s the last time those two even threw a spitball each other?

              Trump’s Norwegian nomination for the Nobel Prize smells of phony to me.

              Trump probably paid this guy to nominate him. That’s how he operates.

              He’s not going to win.

              Trump is a vulgar charlatan and con man and the sooner he is forgotten the better.

              In recent rallies, President Donald Trump has repeatedly conflated winning a Nobel Peace Prize with being nominated for one, and has wrongly faulted the media for ignoring his nomination after making former President Barack Obama’s nomination in 2009 “the biggest story I’ve ever seen.”

              The media attention for Obama came after he won the Nobel Peace Prize. Trump has been nominated, but that’s not the “big thing” he makes it out to be. There are 318 candidates for the Nobel Peace Prize for 2020 — 211 are individuals and 107 organizations.

              Any one of thousands of people can nominate someone for the prestigious award. And two people have come forward saying they nominated Trump.

              But on its website, the Nobel committee warns not to attach too much importance to a nomination.

              “Any person or organization can be nominated by anyone eligible to nominate,” the committee states. The Norwegian Nobel Committee has no input into submissions, though it decides who actually wins the prize. “To simply be nominated is therefore not an endorsement or extended honour to imply affiliation with the Nobel Peace Prize or its related institutions,” the committee states.

              Nonetheless, Trump has touted the nomination repeatedly at campaign rallies, on Twitter and in TV ads.

              Trump’s Nomination
              On Sept. 9, Christian Tybring-Gjedde, a far-right Norwegian politician, announced on Fox News that he had nominated Trump for a Nobel Peace Prize.

              “For his merit, I think he has done more trying to create peace between nations than most other Peace Prize nominees,” Tybring-Gjedde said.

              In his nominating letter, Tybring-Gjedde cited Trump’s role in establishing relations between Israel and the United Arab Emirates. He also cited Trump’s “key role in facilitating contact between conflicting parties and … creating new dynamics in other protracted conflicts, such as the Kashmir border dispute between India and Pakistan, and the conflict between North and South Korea, as well as dealing with the nuclear capabilities of North Korea.”

              Two days later, Magnus Jacobsson, a member of Sweden’s Parliament for the Christian Democrats, announced via Twitter that he, too, had nominated Trump for the award, along with the governments of Kosovo and Serbia “for their joint work for peace and economic development.”

              Nominations for a Nobel Peace Prize can be made by any one of perhaps hundreds of thousands of eligible people, including, according to the Nobel website, “university rectors or chancellors, professors of political and social science, history, philosophy, law and theology; leaders of peace research institutes and institutes of foreign affairs; members of national assemblies, governments, and international courts of law; previous Nobel Peace Prize Laureates; board members of organizations and institutions that have received the Nobel Peace Prize; present and past members of the Norwegian Nobel Committee; and former advisers of the Norwegian Nobel Institute.”

              The Nobel committee does not provide a list of the nominees. In fact, the names of nominees, and who nominated them, are not released by the Nobel committee for 50 years, and only leak out when people make them public, as Tybring-Gjedde and Jacobsson did.

              The Nobel committee does, however, release the number of nominations. This year, there are 318 candidates for the Nobel Peace Prize — 211 individuals and 107 organizations. That’s the fourth highest number of candidates in the award’s history. The five-member Norwegian Nobel Committee narrows the list of nominees to a small group and then picks a winner.

              According to the Nobel Prize website, simply being nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize is “not an endorsement or extended honour to imply affiliation with the Nobel Peace Prize.”

              Indeed, some of history’s most vilified figures have been nominated for the prize. Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin was nominated twice: in 1945 for his effort to end World War II and again in 1948 by a professor from the Czech Republic. And fascist Italian dictator Benito Mussolini was nominated in 1935 by two law professors, one from Germany and the other from France. (Adolf Hitler was nominated in 1939 — the nomination was later withdrawn — by “an anti-fascist member of the Swedish parliament who never intended his submission to be taken seriously,” according to Nobel archives.)

              This is not the first time Trump has been nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize. Tybring-Gjedde, who nominated Trump this month, and another far-right politician, Per-Willy Amundsen, said in June 2018 they had nominated Trump for the honor following Trump’s nuclear weapons summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un.

              In February 2019, Trump claimed in a White House press conference that Japan’s prime minister Shinzo Abe wrote him a letter in which he said he had nominated Trump for a Nobel Peace Prize, also related to his negotiations with North Korea. Abe declined to confirm that, though the Asahi Shimbun newspaper “cited an unnamed government source as saying the nomination came in response to an ‘unofficial’ U.S. request,” according to the Washington Post. Other than publicly disclosing the letter, though, Trump did not otherwise publicize the nomination, and he did not win the prize that year.

              But Trump has insisted he will win a Nobel Peace Prize, or at least that he should.

              “I think I’ll get a Nobel Prize for a lot of things,” Trump said during a press conference on Sept. 23, 2019. “I think I’m going to get a Nobel Prize for a lot of things, if they gave it out fairly, which they don’t.”

              Now, with an election just weeks away, Trump has been aggressively hyping this year’s nomination.

              On social media, Trump retweeted about a dozen messages announcing the nomination or congratulating him for it. And a recent TV ad from the Trump campaign that highlights Trump’s involvement in an accord to normalize relations between Israel and the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain boasts, “President Trump, nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.” Trump has also brought up the nomination in at least a half dozen recent campaign rallies.

              “Can you believe it, in one week they nominated me, not for one, but for two Nobel prizes,” Trump said at a rally in Fayetteville, North Carolina, on Sept. 19. “But you know, you have a president, you love your president, and your president gets honored, because I’m not being honored, you’re being honored with the Nobel Peace Prize, for Israel, what we did with Israel.”

              (He wasn’t nominated for two Nobel prizes; he was nominated by two people for the same prize. And, of course, he was not honored — at least not yet — with the prize.)

              Trump went on relate a story about how he went home to watch the network news with his wife in hopes of hearing about his nomination.

              “This is going to be big,” Trump said he told First Lady Melania Trump. “This is going to be big tonight. We just got honored, this is big. Nobel Peace, can you imagine?”

              But to his embarrassment, he said, “I wasn’t covered. I got the Nobel Peace Prize nomination, a Peace Prize, Nobel nomination. And they didn’t cover it.”

              We should note that while the nomination was not covered in a national network news broadcast, it has been reported in many national print outlets, and has been widely cited on Fox News.

              Trump told the same network news story two nights later at a rally in Ohio.

              “I’m the only man that got nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize and I didn’t get any press,” Trump said at a rally on Sept. 21 in Ohio. “They wouldn’t. For two of them. Last week, I’m not bragging about it, I’m just saying, I’m the president of the United States because of Kosovo-Serbia, they’ve been killing each other for years, I worked out a deal for them. I got nominated. And then Israel with Bahrain and UAE, and many more to come. I mean, they all want to do it. We’ll have peace in the Middle East without blood all over the sand. No blood. We’re going to have peace in the Middle East. So I was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.”

              Both nights, Trump made a point of saying that while the network news ignored his nomination, the same was not true when Obama was nominated in 2009.

              “And when Barack Obama, Barack Hussein Obama got nominated, now when Barack Hussein Obama got nominated, he didn’t know why he was nominated,” Trump said. “It was like right at the very beginning [of his presidency]. He didn’t do anything. He did nothing and he got nominated. It was the biggest story I’ve ever seen.”

              Trump is wrong about media coverage of Obama’s nomination.

              Obama’s Press
              We searched the Nexis news database and could find only two stories that mentioned Obama’s nomination.

              An Associated Press story on Feb. 27, 2009, about the nominations for the award started, “President Barack Obama and his French counterpart Nicolas Sarkozy are believed to be among a record 205 nominations for the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize.” The fourth sentence of the story put the nominations in context: “‘It is very easy to be nominated for the peace prize, but that is in no way an endorsement by the committee,’ said Geir Lundestad, the Norwegian awards committee’s nonvoting secretary.”

              An Associated Press story on Oct. 7, 2009, also mentioned the possibility of Obama’s nomination. The story led with speculation about Chinese dissidents being the leading contenders to win the award. Five paragraphs in, the article noted, “U.S. President Barack Obama is thought to have been nominated but it’s unclear on what grounds. Nobel watchers say he could be a contender for next year’s prize, following his lofty call for global nuclear disarmament last month at the United Nations, which came after the nomination deadline for the 2009 prize.”

              In fact, Obama did wind up winning the award that year. Upon learning the news, Obama said he was “both surprised and deeply humbled by the decision of the Nobel Committee.”

              “Let me be clear: I do not view it as a recognition of my own accomplishments, but rather as an affirmation of American leadership on behalf of aspirations held by people in all nations,” Obama said on Oct. 9, 2009. “To be honest, I do not feel that I deserve to be in the company of so many of the transformative figures who’ve been honored by this prize — men and women who’ve inspired me and inspired the entire world through their courageous pursuit of peace.”

              The honor was covered widely in the press, and some detractors noted that Obama was in office less than two weeks when the deadline passed for nominations. Count Trump among the longtime detractors.

              In September 2015, a former director of the Norwegian Nobel Institute expressed some regret about awarding the Nobel Peace Prize to Obama.

              In a memoir, Lundestad, the non-voting director until 2014, wrote that, “In retrospect, we could say that the argument of giving Obama a helping hand was only partially correct,” and made it difficult for Obama to live up to expectations. “Many of Obama’s supporters believed it was a mistake,” he wrote. “As such, it did not achieve what the committee had hoped for.”

              Whether one believes Obama deserved the award or not, though, the fact is he won it. And the media attention he got came almost entirely after he won it, not when he was nominated. We also don’t mean to diminish Trump’s accomplishments in the Middle East or with Kosovo and Serbia, but it is premature for Trump to say he is “being honored” with the award.

              1. Whoa Ben, my man, take a Xanax or something. You wrote: “No matter what Uncle Sam does there it’s not going to change or affect anything much.”

                And so I pointed out that Trump, during his four years as POTUS, had actually done something toward advancing peace in the Middle East. Four historic peace accords is not nothing. And that Trump has been nominated 3x for the Nobel Peace Prize. Jared Kushner and Avi Berkovitz have also been nominated for their work on the historic Abraham Accords.

                Even the lefty NYT writer, Tom Friedman, called Trump’s ME success “a geopolitical earthquake”…..

                I’m just sayin’….what Trump accomplished toward peace in the Middle East was substantial and impressive.

                1. No, it isn’t.

                  Those peace agreements never last.

                  How many Camp David Peace Accords have there been over the years?

                  If Trump had somehow disarmed Iraq and Iran and Afghanistan then he would have deserved the Nobel Peace Prize.

                  Israel and UAE have never been at war with each other. Have they?

                  It’s all more b******* and bluster from Trump.

                  Thank God he’s gone.

                  1. Peace between Arab countries and Israel is, as one expert put it, “Iran’s worst nightmare.”

                    Dismiss Trump’s achievements all you want, but the world knows if it were Obama or Biden who achieved this, we would never hear the end of it and they would be given prize after prize for their remarkable success. But alas, it was Trump’s success, and we can’t have that, now can we?

                    Heck, Obama got a Peace Prize just for winning an election. He then went on to create more wars and more chaos all over the ME. But of course.

                    1. Obama recognized at the Middle East is a hopeless bloody religious tribal Quagmire and the wars in the Middle East were just wasteful costly bloody pointless Wars of Revenge.

                      Payback for 9/11 costing 10 billion dollars a month and flooding the VA with morally and physically damaged Americans.

                      Obama satisfied some of that bloodlust by ordering the tactically and politically risky assassination of bin Laden.

                      An operation that almost went South and took his presidency with it

                      And then he extricated America from the Middle East as quickly and efficiently as he could.

                      And left behind a silent but deadly force of Special Forces, drones and cyber.

                      It was called the Obama Doctrine and it worked and it continues to work.

                      By the time Trump stumbled into office there wasn’t much for him to do.

                      He fired some tomahawks at a parking lot in Syria and killed some poor sap at a Chuck-E-Cheese in Baghdad.

                      Trump arranged a peace agreement between Israel and the UAE and Israel in Bahrain? So what?

                      That’s like arranging a peace agreement between New Jersey and Florida.

                      A sideshow of a sideshow. Trump can fondle his Nobel Peace Prize in prison.

                      Obama earned his after the fact.

                    2. Ben — Obama’s actions created the rise of ISIS (or ISIL as only he called it). Obama’s actions and inactions allowed ISIS to establish a caliphate. Obama’s actions included sending Iran, the largest state-sponsor of terror, pallats of cash in an unmarked plane in the dark of night, bypassing Congressional approval.

                      You really don’t understand what damage Obama did in the ME. And you really don’t understand what success Trump achieved either.

                    3. ISIS shmISIS.

                      If Obama had rounded up every card-carrying member of ISIS, lined them up against the wall and shot them all in the head, some other group would have risen up.

                      And another after that.

                      Islam has been warring and raiding and killing for centuries. Always have always will.

                      Short of carpet bombing the place there’s only so much Uncle Sam can do there

                      The Middle East is a waste of time. Obama recognized that.

                      And the money that went to Iran belonged to Iran and it was part of an international cooperation. It didn’t all come from America.

                      America and Israel teamed up to bug Iran’s nuclear centrifuge program. How much time and money and headaches do you think that cost them?

                      You shouldn’t comment online while you’re watching The Kardashians.

                      Do some reading and some research first.

                      Start with a book called Confront and Conceal which details the Obama Doctrine.

                      Obama and Hillary Clinton were ten times more devious and even murderous than they get credit for.

                      But they were also very effective.

                      It takes a PhD to appreciate Obama and Hillary but most Americans struggle to spell PhD.

                    4. Ha ha this fellow Ben thinks Trump voters are “dumb.”

                      This only serves to illustrate the hateful attitude that some Democrat cheerleaders have towards their fellow Americans.

                      Ben sounds like an angry teenager. One of those who wears skinny jeans and colors his hair blue.

                      He talks big too. ha, ha. I went back to the gym recently after a hiatus. Not the “monitored” gym that all the high-dollar types go to. The real gym where people sweat and grunt and push iron with glee.

                      Well, there were a lot of people there, and nobody wearing a mask

                      What does that tell you? Told me a lot

                      Saloth Sar

                  2. Ben says “Thank God he’s gone” about Trump. Did you see that Biden has already sent troops back into Syria? Yep, it’s only been a few weeks into a new administration. No one really wants ‘peace’ now do they? So….Here we go again….

                    1. Well Bashar al-Assad is a murderous, barrel-bombing prick who needs his Assad bashed.

                      And apparently Biden is willing to apply some pressure.

                      Has there been a shot fired in Anger yet?

                      Or is it all saber-rattling?

                      If Trump had accomplished anything in Syria then maybe he would have deserved a Nobel Peace Prize.

                      But he didn’t.

                      He brought together two nations that weren’t at war.

                      Sideshow of a sideshow.

                      The citizens of the UAE would rather drift their Lamborghinis than go to war.

                    2. “Well Bashar al-Assad is a murderous,…”

                      Laughable as is every earlier post. I’m sure Biden will also provide a red line for Assad based on American blood and treasure when he points to the red line and looks like an A$$ just like Hillary with her plastic restart button with Putin.

                      In general I can see no point in responding to all the claims by Ben who sounds like that nutcase Joe Friday. The lunacy is obvious enough for everyone to understand and those on the fence might actually conclude these leftist policies are crazy.

                    3. When Trump took office, only Egypt and Jordan, had treaties with Israel. There are now 6 Arab nations: UAE, Bahrain, Morocco, and Sudan. And more in the works. This is historic.

                    4. Ben says: “It takes a PhD to appreciate Obama and Hillary…”

                      That’s exactly why a PhD is meaningless.

                      btw Dokta Jill does NOT have a PhD.

                    5. Ben like Anonymous the Stupid and Joe Friday provides links (left wing one’s at that). He probably didn’t read the article and if he did he didn’t understand it. Stupid people do not seem to learn.

                      “The Obama Doctrine is a catch-all term frequently used to describe one or several principles of the foreign policy of U.S. President Barack Obama. It is still not agreed whether there was an actual Obama Doctrine.”


                    6. Ben – thank you for that reminder; Obama did have a “doctrine”: to fundamentally transform the United States of America…

                      Which was then rejected by the American people who then elected President Donald J. Trump who had a very clear policy doctrine: America First. President Trump went on to achieve four historic peace deals in the MIddle East and other significant foreign policy advancements, including no new wars.

                      Thanks, Obama.

                    7. Ben quickly finds a book to prove there was an Obama Doctrine. The book he found was written and the summary summarized where Ben screwed up badly. The book was titled “The Obama Doctrine”. That is as far as Ben gets, titles and headlines.

                      “the shape of the “Obama Doctrine” is finally coming into full view”

                      It’s finally coming into view but the author can’t say what it is so the “Obama Doctrine” is put in quotes. Did it come into view? Not while the book was being written and based on all the facts there was no coherent meaningful Obama Doctrine just like his Nobel Peace Prize.

                      Ben, you are lame.


                    8. No need to read the book because at the time of its writing the author admitted the so called “Doctrine” had not been created. You have back-stepped saying: “the phrase, whether it’s official or not.” and that is the first thing of substance you have said that rings true.


                    9. You wouldn’t know the truth if it jumped into bed with you.

                      You’re a Trump supporter, which instantly pegs you as a numbskull.

                      There’s no way around it.

                      You have to question the intelligence and integrity and sense of anyone who voted for or supports Trump.

                      I was kinda hoping by Trump’s behavior that he was the AntiChrist, come to earth to collect souls wholesale using this new social media.

                      Trump exposed the weak, and the frauds, and the sycophants and the money-grubbers and those who put ambition in front of everything else.

                      And there was and is a mess of them.

                      And at some point he will wave his trident and expose himself – literally and philosophically – and take all those corrupt souls down down down where the flames leap higher.

                      And the righteous would inherit the earth.

                      Hasn’t happened yet, but it might still be coming.

                      Better get your affairs in order, just in case.

                    10. Ben is not the brightest bulb in the room 💡💡💡

                      Barack Obama’s foreign policy was a mess; there was no ‘doctrine.’ Mistake number one: selecting Hillary Clinton to be secretary of State and let her turn the State Dept. into a cash cow for the Clintons. Mistake number two: selecting John Kerry to be Secretary of State. We shall never forget James Tayor singing You’ve Got A Friend as a gift to the grieving French. Good lord. It was all downhill from there.

                    11. Wrong, Obama and Team did miracles.

                      But it takes a PhD to appreciate what Obama and Hillary and Kerry did, and you can’t even spell PhD.

                      You’re just an idiot Trump supporter, bleeding from the reality you backed a loser – again,.

                    12. Read 𝑨 𝑷𝒓𝒐𝒎𝒊𝒔𝒆𝒅 𝑳𝒂𝒏𝒅 or have an intelligent person read it to you.

                      When Obama took office he faced a many-headed hydra of problems: The Great Recession left behind by Bush43 wasn’t so Great, and threatened the American banking system which threatened to collapse the worldwide banking system.

                      He had to fix that, and he did.

                      Two dumb, bloody, extremely expensive wars of revenge in Iraq an Afghanistan that cost $10 billion a month and accomplished what, exactly, other than killing thousands of Americans and flooded the VA with even more emotionally and physically damaged Americans.

                      A collapsing American auto industry, which Obama saved.

                      H1N!. A rising China. A pesky Russia. Iran.

                      Obama and Team solved most of those problems and also managed to shove Obamacare past a do-nothing, know-nothing Republican opposition.

                      Obama and Team did miracles.

                      They set the table and then Trump came in and shit all over the table.

                      Republicans screw it up. Democrats clean it up.

                      And now Obama and Team have to clean up an even bigger mess than Bush43 left behind.

                      The dumbest 50% of America had their idiot president for four years with the expected result.

                    13. Shocker! Ben fires off more insults as substitutes for his arguments: “But it takes a PhD to appreciate what Obama and Hillary and Kerry did, and you can’t even spell PhD.”

                      Ben, take a Xanax, maybe wash it down with a nice sipping tequila, and now explain to us why “it takes a PhD to appreciate” what O, Hill, and ‘I married Ketchup’ did? Tell us about some of these “miracles” Obama did. We’re all ears….

                  3. Ben — you are really really confused about what Obama did in the ME and why. You are also confused about Obama’s Nobel Peace Prize. Obama didn’t ‘earn’ anything.

              2. And yes, of course Trump will not “win it.”

                BLM has also been nominated (a ‘mostly peaceful’ Peace Prize?), as has Stacey Abrams…she won the GA governors race, doncha know, and she has never conceded loss, so why not a ‘peace prize’ for her too?

                The Nobel Peace Prize has cheapened itself, such that it is no longer a “prestigious” prize that it once was. It’s become a ‘woke’ joke at this point.

      2. Ben — “Last time I looked, the Democratic party controlled the House and the Senate and the White House – all of which were let slip by an idiotic Republican party ”


        That part is likely true. Many spineless Republicans stood by while the election was stolen in a coup.

        1. The election wasn’t stolen.

          Americans woke up that they had made a massive mistake and elected a vulgar, lying,p**** grabbing senile flatulent game show host to be president United States.

          A con man who couldn’t conhis way out of a pandemic and showed an embarrassing lack of leadership as Coronavirus killed hundreds of thousands tanked the economy and put millions of Americans on unemployment.

          What’s rotavirus God’s punishment for a nation that would elect a dedicated sinner to be their leader? Possibly.

          Of course they voted him out because he’s a complete f******.

          And the only coup attempt was the Trump-incited raid on the capitol in which a mob of morally, intellectually and financially bankrupt proles vented their own self disgust on government.

          1. The election was stolen. Read Molly Ball’s article in Time. She lays it all out. They cheated, they stole it. They use different words, but we all know what happened.

            1. And if you believe that, I would like to sell you the Golden Gate Bridge.

              No American should be that gullible and dumb.

              Did you see the movie 𝐶𝑟𝑎𝑠ℎ? “𝑌𝑜𝑢 𝑒𝑚𝑏𝑎𝑟𝑟𝑎𝑠𝑠 𝑚𝑒. 𝑌𝑜𝑢 𝑒𝑚𝑏𝑎𝑟𝑟𝑎𝑠𝑠 𝑦𝑜𝑢𝑟𝑠𝑒𝑙𝑓.”

        2. “Spineless Republicans” is a redundancy with a couple of exceptions.

          Romney being one of them.

          Scaramucci another.

          These people put truth, justice and the American way over their own interests and ambition.

          1. Nope, Romney is an insufferable RINO. Is there a more useless politician than Mitt Romney?

            Scaramooch is the worst. Would not trust that guy as far as you can spit.

            1. Romney is a good Mormon who put his conscience and self respect ahead of his politics and party and did the right thing.

              He spoke out against Trump and time proved him right.

              Good on him.

              And Scaramucci is great.

              I invited him to join my Bond Villain vs Trump Crony deal and asked who he wanted to be:


              He responded: “Why Scaramanga of course. But I don’t have three nipples.”

              I email correspond with The Mooch often and found him to be a charming and erudite corresponder.

              He worked in the White House 11 days and it scared the crap out of him: “This guy is the president of the United States?”

              He was a bit of a national joke there for a while but then he became the voice and face of the opposition and he did a great job,.

              He’s a smart guy and a decent guy and he let the world know that Trump was and is a huge mistake – and time proved him right too.

              I tried to persuade the Mooch to write a book about what it’s like to stand up to Trump and what kind of BS came at him.

              He’s not interested, but it would be interesting.

              P.S You’re a Trump supporter, ergo you are a moron. No American should be that gullible and dumb. And corrupt.

      3. “Not any more. Everything the Republican party touches turns to S#I+, and now it’s the country.”

        With such a breathless, “they’re all bad” rant like this I’m wondering if it might just be the crazy talking. This guy needs his own boat, movie or the whereabouts of those strawberries. That said, he’s fun to read.

        1. Was that a Caine Mutiny reference?

          I’ve been saying all along that I’m waiting for Trump to pull a Captain Queeg-class meltdown and start clanking his balls together and blaming everyone for his own lack of leadership and intelligence.

          But that’s probably happened multiple times.

            1. I’ve said it elsewhere.

              I email with The Mooch all the time and I live in a place where Seinfeld and other Hollywood types hang out and tried to get the Caine Mutiny idea to The Daily Show and other places, but never did it.

              But the majority of Americans aren’t old or smart enough to get a Caine Mutiny reference, although it absolutely applies to Trump: Clanking his balls together and hysterically and paranoiacaly blaming everyone for his failures in leadership and competence.

              I also suggested to my Hollywood friends that SNL should do a skit where Jn Lovitz – aka Tommy Flanagan aka The Pathological Liar – took the job of press secretary for Trump.

              Even Seinfeld said: “That’s funny!”

              1. BM: “Even Seinfeld said: “That’s funny!”
                Did you have that conversation while you were raking his lawn or when you were carrying out his garbage?

                With thousands of jobs lost, gas going up, the ME moving closer to disaster, China getting more aggressive, and the Capitol surrounded by what makes it look like a concentration camp, a number of big Biden supporters are already having buyer’s regret.

                It will get much worse fast.

                How about Biden’s idea of banning travel to and from Florida and opening up the Mexican border?

                I wonder if he even knows that Florida is a state and Mexico isn’t?

                1. I suspect at this point that Biden hardly knows whether he’s coming or going. Forty years ago, we’d be reading about his impairments in Time, but the only actual reporters we have left work for local news outlets or for shoestring operations if they’re not free-lancing like Andy Ngo. These aren’t the sort of people who develop sources in Congress or the White House. During the previous administration, you’d see a mess of stuff attributed to anonymous sources, but we should just assume that sort of story is just fabricated; as one of the few ‘senior officials’ who was actually identified turned out to be the office manager for the Secretary of Homeland Security and presumably quite unknown to any actual senior official other than his boss. Eventually though, I think infighting between people trying to control the President’s pen will induce the cabinet to line up on one side or another, with a majority emerging to shuffle him out the door. If “Dr Jill” resists, the matter lands in the lap of Congress.

                  Prof. Turley is someone satisfied with the worldview he developed 30+ years ago. The predicate of his commentary is that canons of professional conduct matter to lawyers and he’s continually puzzled that they are disregarded by latter-day operators. It’s great to have that sort of gold-standard viewpoint against which to compare your own. The partisan Democrats on this site don’t get it because they’re incapable of disinterested argument.

                  There’s been masses of verbiage on this thread, but it’s hardly worth more than would be a discussion of astrology, simply because there are no factual materials with which you can build a case for ‘incitement’.

              2. Hey we have a name dropper! btw The Mooch is one of the worst people. He is just awful.

    3. Impeachment manager says Trump should be acquitted.

      Is she yet another idiot from the Congressional Black Caucus?

  14. What this hysterical and incoherent trial “tanked” was the declassified Russia probe documents which incriminate much of the democrat party.

  15. After that drubbing the Dim House “People-a-gers” took today from Trump’s lawyers, I guess Trump is feeling positively Sinatra. For those who appreciate:

  16. Incitement to anger is not the same as incitement to violence.

    Moving the timeline of incitement from January 6th to sometime in November (or even earlier) dilutes causation. The further back you go the greater number of plausible intervening or superseding causes that could have incited the criminals.

    This fiasco is giant insult. Somehow, someway, guys like Chris Wallace are smart enough and even-keeled enough to distinguish the figurative from the literal, but millions upon millions of Trump voters are too dumb to do that. No, those people believe everything Trump says. Always. And Forever. Trump MUST be blamed for brainless. The First Amendment right to political hyperbole is checked by The Crazy Conspirator’s Lack Of Self Control Veto. Why, oh why, do we even have elections if we are so dumb. Let’s just have guys like Representative Raskin pre-chew our political speech for us?

    So dumb. So insulting. So what…it’s politics.

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