I previously wrote that the key to conviction in the Derek Chauvin trial (and avoiding a cascading failure in all four cases) is the autopsy findings and the role of drugs (including fentanyl) in the body of George Floyd. Prosecutors are now asking the jury to effectively dismiss the findings of the only official autopsy in the case and insist, contrary to those findings, that Floyd died from asphyxia, or, lack of oxygen. Some new disclosures may make that claim more difficult for the prosecution.
Last week, special prosecutor Jerry Blackwell admitted to jurors that Hennepin County Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Andrew Baker pointed to cardiac arrest as Floyd’s cause of death. However, he insisted that the state would prove that “was … not a fatal heart event,” but asphyxiation.
It is a bold move since it could invite reasonable doubt on the cause of death. The question is whether a case of manslaughter could have been advanced without the need of opposing the state’s own coroner on such findings. The failure of Chauvin to respond to a medical emergency speaks more to manslaughter than murder but it could be framed consistently with these findings. Instead, the prosecution has asked the jury to effectively reject the coroner’s findings — a risky maneuver.
We have previously discussed key defense elements in the case:
Conversely, Chauvin’s attorney, Eric Nelson, sounds more like the typical prosecutor noting that there is only one official autopsy and one official report on the cause of death. He told the jury “Dr. Baker found none of what are referred to as the telltale signs of asphyxiation. There was no evidence that Mr. Floyd’s airflow was restricted and he did not determine [it] to be a positional or mechanical asphyxia death.”
Nelson can rely on other aspects of the official record. When Baker went over findings in a meeting last December with the Minnesota Attorney General’s Office, he specifically noted that the knee restraint was not likely to produce asphyxiation: “[I]t appeared to Dr. Baker that the pressure to the neck was coming from the back or posterior lateral portions of the back, and none of these strictures would impact breathing or cause loss of consciousness,” said a document summarizing the meeting.” He noted a study that found that placing 200 pounds of weight or more on a healthy person did not have an “observable impact on breathing.”
Instead, Baker cited the drugs in the system as well as the 75-80% narrowing of coronary arteries that “put him at risk for a sudden cardiac arrest.” The record of the meeting states “Dr. Baker offered that one possibility for the pathway of Floyd’s death is that Floyd’s heart was starting to fail because of the stress, drugs, enlarged heart, and [heart] disease . . . He said that once the heart starts to fail … one of the symptoms is the perception that you cannot breathe.”
After those findings were released, Baker’s office had to be put under police protections due to threats to him and his staff.
By focusing the jury on the autopsy report, and asking them to effectively dismiss the conclusions of the only official report, the prosecutors increase the chances of a hung jury and even an acquittal. I previously expressed reservations about the push for murder charges because the case is better suited for a manslaughter case. If a jury feels the prosecutors have over-charged a case, it can produce a loss of credibility in the case. When you add an argument to dismiss the state’s own autopsy findings, you risk magnifying such skepticism or mistrust with jury members.
they should instead ask the jury to dismiss the video of chauvin with his knee on floyds shoulder and not his back
it goes a long way in explaining why the only autopsy that counts didnt show damage to floyds neck
@Sound Awake…
Turley attempts to address this by stating that Floyd most likely died from non-cardiogenic pulmonary edema. Where Turley goes off the rails is that he focuses on the stress caused by Chauvin as the cause, totally ignoring that the drugs ingested along with long term drug abuse by Floyd also contributes to a non-cardiogenic pulmonary edema.
This is kind of critical because the prosecution is already trying to frame that any force.. on the neck or even on the shoulder could be the cause for non-cardiogenic pulmonary edema. The defense will argue that the pulmonary edema is due to drugs and not the restraint. And the defense is more than likely correct when you lay out the time line and Floyd’s eratic behavior.
Criminal-huggers are worried about police overreaction.
Meanwhile, politicians surrender police stations to armed thugs. Mayors and governors stand down, while their cities are torched and looted. Police are fired and prosecuted for doing their jobs. Police are treated by politicians as human piñatas. That the innocent lose their life, property, and peace of mind are considered acceptable civilian casualties.
And there’s the predictable consequence: Crime and murder are skyrocketing.
Cute PV video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5v9fYHfDeus
NYT Exec Editor Dean Baquet Responds to PV win on The Times’ Motion to Dismiss in Defamation Case
The left is covering its tracks.
—
BLM Activist Threatens Cities ‘on Fire’ if Chauvin Not Convicted
In a now-deleted video on social media, prominent Black Lives Matter (BLM) activist Maya Echols threatened that cities will be “on fire” if Derek Chauvin, a former Minneapolis police officer on trial for the murder of George Floyd, is not convicted.
“If George Floyd’s murderer is not sentenced, just know that all hell is gonna break loose. Don’t be surprised when buildings are on fire. Just saying,” Echols threatened.
There is no question that an acquittal in the Floyd case will spark nationwide rioting by the “mostly peaceful” domestic terrorists of BLM and the violent anarchists of Antifa, because that’s how the left rolls when trials and elections don’t go their way. They burn cities and loot businesses and assault innocents, and the supportive activists of the news media give them a pass.
Meanwhile, the Biden administration demonizes Trump supporters as the real domestic terrorist threat.
Has she been arrested? Wait, Kamala Harris would have to be arrested also.
Autopsy of George Floyd with my comments added in italics:
II. Natural diseases
A. Arteriosclerotic heart disease, multifocal, severe
B. Hypertensive heart disease
1. Cardiomegaly (540 g) with mild biventricular
dilatation
2. Clinical history of hypertension
C. Left pelvic tumor (incidental, see microscopic description)
III. No life-threatening injuries identified
B. No injuries of anterior muscles of neck or laryngeal
structures
IV. Viral testing (Minnesota Department of Health, postmortem nasal swab collected 5/26/2020): positive for 2019-nCoV RNA by PCR (see ‘Comments,’ below)
V. Hemoglobin S quantitation (postmortem femoral blood, HHC
Laboratory): 38% (see ‘Comments,’ below) Sickle cell
VI. Toxicology (see attached report for full details; testing
performed on antemortem blood specimens collected 5/25/20 at
9:00 p.m. at HHC and on postmortem urine)
A. Blood drug and novel psychoactive substances screens:
1. Fentanyl 11 ng/mL
2. Norfentanyl 5.6 ng/mL metabolite of fentanyl
3. 4-ANPP 0.65 ng/mL
4. Methamphetamine 19 ng/mL
5. 11-Hydroxy Delta-9 THC 1.2 ng/mL;
Delta-9 Carboxy THC 42 ng/mL; Delta-9 THC 2.9 ng/mL marijuana/cannabis
6. Cotinine positive metabolite from nicotine from tobacco smoke
7. Caffeine positive
https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/documents/floyd-autopsy-6-3-20.pdf
From the autopsy report above. Note that the collection time of hospital blood samples were taken at 21:00 hours, 25 minutes before he was pronounced dead. Toxicology also flagged morphine.
NECK: Layer by layer dissection of the anterior strap muscles of the neck discloses no areas of contusion or hemorrhage within the musculature. The thyroid cartilage and hyoid bone are intact. The larynx is lined by intact mucosa. The thyroid is symmetric and red-brown, without cystic or nodular change. The tongue is free of bite marks, hemorrhage, or other injuries.
The cervical spinal column is palpably stable and free of
hemorrhage.
RESPIRATORY SYSTEM: The right and left lungs weigh 1085 and
1015 g, respectively. The external surfaces are pink only on the most anterior aspects, and deep red-purple in all other areas. The pulmonary parenchyma is diffusely congested and edematous.
No mass lesions or areas of consolidation are present. The
pulmonary vascular tree is free of thromboemboli. The
tracheobronchial tree is free of blood, edema fluid, or foreign
material.
The toxicology results don’t copy and paste due to formatting issues.
https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/documents/floyd-autopsy-6-3-20.pdf
Little Miss, Little Miss, Little Miss Can’t be Wrong. Chauvin died while on the ground under Chauvin’s knee. Being formally pronounced dead doesn’t mean he was alive right up to the moment he was pronounced. The ER doctor said he died of asphyxia. The ME said he died of cardiopulmonary arrest while under restraint. You don’t know what the hell you’re talking about, but you still won’t shut up.
Obsessing Natacha – you still won’t say why you think George Floyd did not have a fatal overdose, or why he repeatedly said he couldn’t breathe long before he said he wanted to lie down on the ground, where Chauvin subsequently knelt on him.
In your “professional” opinion, nurse/lawyer, why couldn’t George Floyd breathe in the car, professed nurse/lawyer Natacha? Please enlighten us.
It’s grim to think a real nurse would consider someone “fine” with THC, fentanyl, meth, nicotine, and morphine in his system, and not in imminent danger because of those drugs.
Here is what the ER doctor actually said about asphyxia:
“Nelson: There are many things that cause hypoxia that are still considered asphyxiation?
Langenfeld: Correct.
Nelson: Drug use, certain drugs, can cause hypoxia?
Langenfeld: Correct.
Nelson: Specifically fentanyl?
Langenfeld: That’s correct.
Nelson: How about methamphetamine?
Langenfeld: It can.
Nelson: Combination of the two?
Langenfeld: Yes
Nelson also questioned Langenfeld about carbon dioxide levels relative to shortness of breath.
The doctor agreed that higher levels of CO2 can lead to a sensation of a shortness of breath, even without added stress. Langenfeld also said that fentanyl can cause higher CO2 levels, “because it depresses the ventilation, or the breathing.”
Floyd’s CO2 levels were double what is average when Langenfeld attended to him, he said.”
Most agree that Chauvin acted wrongly, but it will be difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin, and only Chauvin, caused George Floyd’s death, and if so, whether it was on purpose.
Natacha please pay attention.
She’s giving you the facts from the coroner’s report.
The ER doc’s testimony is noise. He didn’t have the autopsy report.
The coroner’s report states that he died of “cardiopulmonary arrest while under restraint” not fentanyl overdose. Period. The ER doctor who treated Floyd said he died of asphyxia, based on the cardiac rhythm strips he ordered and reviewed. The autopsy proves that he did not die of a heart attack, COVID or fentanyl overdose. I never said Floyd was “fine”. Contrary to the nonsensical argument that he was dying of cardiac distress or overdose before Chauvin asphyxiated him, I said he was walking around, talking to people and purchasing cigarettes. Someone who is dying of cardiac distress or an overdose doesn’t do these things.
Everything Kare writes is noise. She is an ignoramus know it all who won’t back down.
@Natacha
I guess you can’t grasp the facts.
Also the coroner didn’t have access to the police videos of Floyd actions.
This is where the prosecution is going to push that the non-cardiogenic pulmonary edema is going to be due to the restraint, and the defense is going to show that its due to the high levels of drugs in his system.
Free clue.
Floyd started to go into cardiac arrest prior to Chauvin restraining him.
Watch the scene where he’s resisting arrest while in the back of the officer’s squad car.
So the coroner said he died of cardiopulmonary arrest, but “the autopsy proves that he did not die of a heart attack”. Aren’t those the same thing?
They are not the same thing. Heart Attack is from clogged artery that blocks blood flow to the heart. Heart Failure is when the heart crashes under
physical exertion like fighting with police. Congestive Heart failure is how many of us die of old age. Hang out in an open heart rehab room with
the exercise bikes and heart monitors. If your heart rate goes down under exertion you are in heart failure. My late wife went through this and she said as we wheeled her downstairs to ER that she could not breath
Natacha said, “I never said Floyd was ‘fine.’:”
Sure you did. Right here, April 5 at 4:19 PM:
https://jonathanturley.org/2021/04/05/prosecutors-ask-jurors-to-dismiss-george-floyd-autopsy-findings/comment-page-3/#comment-2077790
Direct quote from Natacha’s comment:
“What condition, Dr. Karen? Whatever these conditions were, he was fine until Chauvin knelt on his neck; how you you know that kneeling on Floyd’s neck didn’t cause lung congestion?”
That’s why I put the word “fine” in quotation marks; it was the adjective you used.
Please read your snarky comment one more time, because it supports reasonable doubt.
How do you know that George Floyd did not have a fatal overdose? Bodycam footage and accompanying transcript shows Floyd repeatedly say he couldn’t breathe before Chauvin ever touched him. I’ve asked you repeatedly why you think Floyd couldn’t breathe before Chauvin even came near him, if, as you said, he was “fine”, but you won’t answer. I have to assume, then, that you just won’t acknowledge that it’s a symptom of an overdose, and not being able to breathe prior to being knelt upon could have indicated exited delirium and pulmonary edema.
How do you know that Floyd would have been alive today, or even an hour longer, had Chauvin never put his knee upon him?
Answer: you don’t. And that means there is reasonable doubt.
How do you know the fentanyl, meth, THC, and morphine didn’t cause his respiratory failure?
Answer: you don’t.
You must doubt, as well, because you have made no answer as to why Floyd couldn’t breathe prior to Chauvin touching him.
You asked how do I know that Chauvin kneeling on Floyd’s neck didn’t cause lung congestion? Answer: I don’t. A better question would be to wonder if the kneeling added to or exacerbated the respiratory distress that preceded his death. There was no evidence of injury to the neck from Chauvin’s knee. Without evidence of injury, and with all those drugs in his system as well as his respiratory distress earlier, neither you, nor anyone else but God knows if Floyd could have survived that deadly speedball. Tolerance has its limits.
The autopsy report found no injuries to his throat. While it is indeed possible to compress the carotid artery without bruising, Floyd was struggling and had marks elsewhere. This wasn’t Spock using a subtle Vulcan move. It was a knee. Since Floyd was bruised elsewhere from the struggle, why wouldn’t the knee have bruised or injured the neck if it was over the carotid and bearing weight? The jury would have to be convinced that Chauvin cut off his air- or blood flow without leaving a mark, during a struggle, and to disregard the presence of fentanyl, meth, THC, and morphine in his blood, as well as his prior statement that he couldn’t breathe.
It becomes very difficult to prove whether Floyd would have lived had Chauvin not been there.
I have said before that Chauvin might have hastened the death of an ODing man, but again, that would have to be proven.
Given the very serious threats against jurors, their families, and cities across America, the jury might find Chauvin guilty just to appease violent mobs.
Manslaughter seems the easiest to prove, due to the negligence involved, but again, prosecution would have to prove that Chauvin killed Floyd and not the drugs.
I am not defending Chauvin kneeling on Floyd for 9 minutes, or his failure to move Floyd to a different position to at least try to alleviate his panic and respiratory distress. But as stated, I have not heard evidence that Chauvin murdered Floyd. I also do not agree with charging the rookies. Lang, for example, tried several times to get Chauvin to move Floyd to his side.
Karen S to Natch: “how do I know that Chauvin kneeling on Floyd’s neck didn’t cause lung congestion?”
***
Easy enough now to know. Two of the prosecution witnesses admitted on cross that Chauvin’s knee was on Floyd’s back rather than on his neck and it was in a position that both prosecution experts had used themselves. It was safe.
Now several days into the trial only two things, separately or in combination, are known to have been likely to cause Floyd’s death: Drugs he took and Multiple Diseases. “Knee on neck” is out.
Cardio pulmonary resuscitation efforts would continue to move the bloodstream to some degree, which would impact settling, up until the point that such efforts ceased.
You have claimed that Floyd was “fine” and had not OD’d, paradoxically because postmortem redistribution makes comparisons difficult with in vivo fentanyl levels. But if that’s the case, you also don’t know if the in vivo levels were sufficient to OD or not. Then there is the issue of built up tolerance, and the fact that his girlfriend said they didn’t actually know what was in the drugs they took, let alone the concentration of any component.
But, I guess you “just know”, as a nurse/lawyer.
“While under restraint” does not mean “due to restraint.”
Answer the question. Why did George Floyd repeatedly say he couldn’t breathe before Chauvin ever touched him if you claim he was “fine” with fentanyl, meth, THC, morphine, nicotine, and caffeine in his system, plus sickle cell, Covid, severe arteriosclerotic heart disease, and hypertension?
Remember, in spite of your self righteousness, you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin killed Floyd, and that Floyd would have lived, at least longer, had Chauvin never knelt upon him.
So they have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he did not die from meth, fentanyl, THC, and morphine plus exited delirium, sickle cell, Covid, hypertension, and severe arteriosclerotic disease. All the jurors have to be absolutely convinced that he would have survived the drugs, and that the respiratory distress that began immediately had nothing to do with the drugs.
I don’t know if jurors will be swayed by all the threats of violence. The defense is certainly vulnerable on issues of Chauvin’s judgement and behavior.
But this would have been a different case if Floyd had been healthy and stone cold sober.
No matter what you say, it’s just your opinion. You don’t have any insider knowledge or special information, and your opinion holds no more weight than any of the rest of us here. The jury will decide, and then we will all have our opinions about whether justice was served.
You don’t know anything, Karen. You’re just a stupid, spoiled girl who likes to mouth off and pretend she knows all about medical matters, the law, and politics.
Natacha: What Karen says is true. You can’t deny truth
@Mr. V
Well she’s actually wrong on one thing…
Frontiers in Pharmacology have a paper on this… down in chart 4 (going from memory) depending where the blood was drawn (post mortem) the level of 11 ng/mL or 13 ng/mL is fatal.
While everyone cautions that there isn’t s specific number because of habitual drug use and other factors… the number will shift… Floyd’s levels are in that fatal range. To make things worse for Floyd, the norfentanyl levels of 5.6 ng/mL show he was a habitual abuser, but also his medical history.
Tolerance or not, CPR or not… if you use the non-specified levels of 13 vs the 11, he was at a near fatal dose.
Based on the videos… (which I don’t think the coroner sees…) Floyd was already dying before Chauvin even touched him.
Based on the pulmonologist who wrote the “bible” on respiratory issues who testified today. You are dead wrong.
So you read somewhere that he was “the guy who wrote the bible” and are taking that to mean what? And repeating it why? You’re just repeating a manipulative phrasing meant to make people think he’s credible. Did you do any research on him? Please share.
“You’re just a stupid, spoiled girl”
Projecting your shadow onto other posters is a very bad look.
Do you know how many black people have died as a result of the George Floyd inspired BLM/Antifa riots?
The reason I ask is because you pretend to care about black American “Lives”. So, you should know the answer?
Answer the questions, nurse/lawyer Natacha:
Why did George Floyd say repeatedly that he couldn’t breathe long before Chauvin ever touched him.
You wrote that he was “fine” and that Chauvin killed him. OK. So why couldn’t George Floyd breathe before Chauvin touched him?
I’ve asked you over and over again. You can call me names all you want. It’s here for all to see that you won’t answer this simple question.
The fact that you lack the intellectual capacity to understand the response to this that has been provided repeatedly does not mean I didn’t respond. Here it goes again: FLOYD SAID HE WAS CLAUSTROPHOBIC at the idea of being placed in a police car. He was breathing until Chauvin squeezed the life out of him. You might learn something if you paid attention to the pulmonologist who testified this morning. But, you are a spoiled know it all, so facts don’t faze you.
The trial is still ongoing and any level-headed, rational person, that truly wants to get to the bottom of this- has not made up their mind yet. You have. Without all the evidence, without even hearing the defense. Thus, anything you say and any argument you make is invalid.
stop wasting time on the 2 morons with zero critical thinking ability, they are brainwashed vapid cult members of the left.
everyone with any discernment knows GF killed himself with ODing
his knee was NEVER on his neck ,ahahhahahaha, it was on his back, as the defense showed in multiple picture and videos,
hahahahahaha, triggered leftist mad that their false reality is crumbling under facts and evidence, ahahahhaa, you were told a lie , just like HANDS UP DON’T SHOOT!!! OR LITTLE TRAVON (6’2 215LBS)
The ER doctor did not conduct an autopsy.
Something is not true – just because someone says it is true.
We have been through nonsense like this before – we had a spate of shaken baby cases for a decade, there are people – mostly women in jail for them. Yet, the medical evidence is that most of those are bogus. That it is actually quite hard to kill an infant that way.
Something is not true just because it has been said.
The amount of fentanyl in Floyd’s blood was well beyond lethal.
It is near certain that Floyd was dying before Chauvin put his knee on him.
I do not know what the Jury here will do. We have 12 people who can be pretty sure that the country is going to errupt in riots and bloodshed if they do not lock Chauvin up for life.
If that were not the case – this would be an open and shut case.
We can fight over whether Chauvin is a good guy, whether he should be a cop, whether his actions were justified or even criminal. but any claims that Floyd was murdered evaporated long ago.
But this is about the legitimacy of the left.
Floyd was your cause de celeb. If all the ranting and rioting over Floyd was a lie – a rush to judgement – it destroys your credibility – a bit more.
Is there anything in the past 4 years (or more) that you have been right about ?
People make mistakes – they are supposed to learn from their mistakes – there is no evidence that you have.
You continue to buy nonsensical political nonsense. Not facts.
I would note that this prosecution goes against everything that the left used to claim they beleived in.
IF juries are not required to follow the evidence in this case – why should they do so in others ?
I do not know the law in Minnesota, but in my state Floyd’s drug dealer – the witness that is now taking the fifth, would be a slam dunk for drug delivery resulting in death.
Natch: “The ER doctor said he died of asphyxia.”
***
And he also said asphyxia could be caused by drugs.
The other prosecution witness said Chauvin’s knee was not on Floyd’s neck.
The state has no case. The state’s witnesses sound like defense witnesses.
@Young,
You have to be careful here.
The witness indicated that the knee didn’t have to be on the neck and that even on the shoulder, any force would be a stressor.
I do agree with you and w Karen that Floyd was going into cardiac arrest before Chauvin touched him.
I do agree that the defense will have a field day making their case based on Floyd’s actions and the toxicology report.
I do agree that there is ample evidence to suggest that Floyd’s death was not due to being restrained by Chauvin.
But you can never tell what a jury will do.
The officer who shot Laquan McDonald went to jail mainly because he emptied his gun as McDonald continued to approach him while holding a knife.
No evidence of myocardial infarction, which would be expected if he died of a heart attack rather than asphyxia as the ER doctor testified to.
Bzzzzt!
You can have cardiac arrest without having myocardial infarction.
Free clue. Pulmonary Edema plays a role.
You sure you’re a nurse? Maybe an LP or a school nurse?
Bzzzt: Karen said he died of coronary artery disease, COVID, sickle cell anemia, fentanyl overdose, everything but Chauvin kneeling on his neck. No proof or evidence of this. Merely having plaque in the coronary arteries does not equate to a fatal heart attack or existing heart disease. Yes, you can have a cardiac arrest without having a myocardial infarction, due to asphyxia, resulting in low oxygen levels, just like the ER doctor said he observed on the EKG.
Natacha:
Stop lying. I never said “he died of coronary artery disease.”
What I actually said in the posts above:
“Most agree that Chauvin acted wrongly, but it will be difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin, and only Chauvin, caused George Floyd’s death, and if so, whether it was on purpose.”
“Answer the question. Why did George Floyd repeatedly say he couldn’t breathe before Chauvin ever touched him if you claim he was “fine” with fentanyl, meth, THC, morphine, nicotine, and caffeine in his system, plus sickle cell, Covid, severe arteriosclerotic heart disease, and hypertension?
Remember, in spite of your self righteousness, you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin killed Floyd, and that Floyd would have lived, at least longer, had Chauvin never knelt upon him.
So they have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he did not die from meth, fentanyl, THC, and morphine plus exited delirium, sickle cell, Covid, hypertension, and severe arteriosclerotic disease. All the jurors have to be absolutely convinced that he would have survived the drugs, and that the respiratory distress that began immediately had nothing to do with the drugs.
I don’t know if jurors will be swayed by all the threats of violence. The defense is certainly vulnerable on issues of Chauvin’s judgement and behavior.
But this would have been a different case if Floyd had been healthy and stone cold sober.”
The jury will have to decide if Chauvin killed Floyd, if he died of a fatal OD, or if it was a combination of the two. His health problems could certainly have increased the likelihood of a fatal OD. There is no denying that George Floyd repeatedly said he couldn’t breathe before Chauvin laid hands on him, or that he had foam on his mouth at the beginning of the incident. I’ve included the transcripts of body cam footage upstream. So among the many issues put before the jury, they will have to determine if he was already ODing, if he was dying on his own, and if Chauvin’s actions hastened his death.
People who ingest Fentanyl with meth and morphine court death. It’s not a safe recreational habit. It’s going to be hard to prove Floyd would have lived otherwise had Chauvin never knelt upon him. While Chauvin will be hard pressed to defend kneeling on his back for so long, and making no overt move to improve his breathing until EMTs arrived, all he has to do is create a reasonable doubt that he actually caused Floyd’s death, instead of showed negligence or disregard for his suffering. Chauvin showed poor judgement. But it’s at question whether he actually killed Floyd. That’s what the trial is to decide.
You don’t seem to have any question about it, nor do you appear to require any evidence, or deal with any pesky evidence that undermines the case. You sure you’re a nurse and a lawyer?
ignore idiot anon. EVERYONE with a brain knows George OD’ed
Hey now, make sure its the right ‘anon’ you ignore. 😉
Reasonable doubt has entered the big picture
Pcj: Oh boy has it ever, it was there from the very start.
This BLACK person died, because …
Blacks are more prone to drug themselves, for whatever reason.
Had Chauvin been black, had Floyd just been sitting on that bench outside, whatever …
he still would have died – from Fentanyl, CoVid, weak heart, enlarged, fluid-filed lungs, whatever.
He was a drug addict. That was effectively the end of a long-term suicide.
Lousy the behaviour of the DEM “prosecutor”.
Hegelian Dialectic: https://www.survivewithwill.com/2017/12/29/hegelian-dialectic-manipulating-people-power-profit-2/
Problem – Reaction – Solution Paradigm
The government creates or exploits a problem then attributes blame to others.
The populace reacts by asking the government for protection and help to solve the problem.
The government offers the solution that was planned by them long before the crisis occurred.
Outcome: Rights and liberties are exchanged for the illusion of protection and help.
I have posted this idea before, but let’s consider my hypothesis again, to wit, The Woke Democrat/Left has a bad case of Muchausen’s Syndrome by Proxy when it comes to dark-skinned peoples. The Woke Left is so mentally ill that they will make victims of dark-skinned people so that they can play the Savior of Black People, the Neo-Freedom “Writers” bravely confronting the Ku Klux Klan, without ever having to hop in a car and head to Alabama and Mississippi.
Hence, a black thug who was banging Poor George Zimmerman’s head into a concrete sidewalk, becomes St. Trayvon, The Unarmed – in spite of being armed with a concrete sidewalk. Michael Brown becomes a “murder victim” after he attacked a cop and tried to get his gun. And George Floyd, chuggin’ full of Fentanyl and Meth, becomes a victim simply due to the optic of being restrained by white cops.
The Woke Left will grub up anyone they can to advance their delusions, and I submit that they are worse than the Nazi’s and their Horst Wessel Affair. Because I think the Nazis were opportunistic and did not believe their own propaganda. But I think there are many Democrats who surpass mere opportunism and grift, and they actually believe the bullsh!t they propagate. Their has to be an “Oppressed Black Population” so they can play the role of the mommy who sacrifices all for their sick child, while, when no one is looking, smothers the kid with a pillow.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
This entire overblown charade surrounding Floyd’s death is a perfect example of the ruling class (aka/ politicians) using a single incident to further divide the populace for their own personal gain.
Charles Barkley spoke to that perfectly last weekend.
“We’re So Stupid Following Our Politicians” – Charles Barkley Unleashes One Minute Of Truth On America”
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/were-so-stupid-following-our-politicians-charles-barkley-unleashes-one-minute-truth
“I truly believe in my heart most white people and black people are awesome people, but we’re so stupid following our politicians, whether they’re Republicans or Democrats.
I think our system is set up where our politicians, whether they’re Republicans or Democrats, are designed to make us not like each other so they can keep their grasp of money and power.
Hey, let’s make these people not like each other. We don’t live in their neighborhoods, we all got money, let’s make the whites and blacks not like each other, let’s make rich people and poor people not like each other, let’s scramble the middle class.”
Drug head!
Call him drug head!
What…kind..of people call him drug head?
Smart folks. Beyond a reasonable doubt folks …kids who climb on rocks
No way a man can take a knee on another mans neck while handcuffed and justify it.
Put yourself in that position, how long would you last?
Drugs may or even probably a part of what happened that day but it does not justify what when down.
No person is the judge and executioner in today’s world and gets away with it.
Chauvin’s going to pay for what he did.
Your statement offers no proof, just conjecture. Nothing you just said has any value other than it’s your opinion and everyone has one.
The official autopsy report showing drug overdose and no sign of asphyxiation is one major element of proof. The police training records showing the knee technique as an approved technique is another element of proof.
Chauvin was acting in full accordance with the policies created by the democrat chain of command: mayor, city council, police commission, and police chief.
@Texasaaa Utter rubbish. Watch the whole video – Floyd’ head was free to move about under the restraining knee, clearly showing that his breathing was not obstructed in any way. He was acting out in a psychotic event, the officers followed their training. The only executioner was Floyd himself, and these officers should sue the family for every cent the crooked Democrat city officials awarded them and millions more for the REAL harm done to the police officers’ reputations in the twisting of Floyd’s suicide into a political weapon.
When you act like a psycho, you do in fact deserve to be treated like one.
“the restraint using an officer’s knee on an uncooperative suspect was part of the training of officers, and jurors will watch training videotapes employing the same type of restraint as official policy.”
The entire democrat infrastructure of police, police commission, city council, and mayor, justify the knee technique. This will be a problem for the Chauvin haters.
First responders are taught to keep a victim laying down. The idea is to slow the spread of the drugs in their system and relieve strain on the heart. That is EXACTLY what the officers did while waiting on the ambulance.
@Txassaaa
Clearly you lack experience in dealing with someone who is resisting arrest.
And you seem to ignore the medical facts which are not in dispute.
Simply put, Floyd was already dying before Chauvin got to the scene. Based on video and eye witness accounts, Floyd was in cardiac distress and going into cardiac arrest before Chauvin took him down.
What Chauvin did would be cause for termination, but not murder.
The knee to the neck did not cause the asphyxiation / strangulation. Had Chauvin placed his body weight on Floyd’s chest or stood on Floyd’s back, that would have quickened his death. But not a knee to the back of the neck.
The medical autopsy performed by the state clears Chauvin. I suspect that the prosecution may call the private pathologist to rebut the state’s pathology report but that would be a mistake.
@Texasaaa – “Chauvin’s going to pay for what he did.”
But, I thought this was America–where “[n]o person is the judge and executioner in today’s world and gets away with it.” Have you completed the trifecta and also appointed yourself the jury?
The cause of death is listed as CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT SUBDUAL, RESTRAINT, AND NECK COMPRESSION
That means his death was determined by the pathologist to be caused by the actions of law enforcement, hence it was a homicide, not a natural death.
The confusion it that the cause of death is listed as CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST rather than ASPHYXIATION.
This confusion may be due to the thought in the forensic medicine that (at least some) deaths previously attributed to “positional asphyxia” may actually be better labeled as being caused by “prone restraint cardiac arrest” (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33629624/). The idea is that prolonged prone restraint causes a decrease in blood oxygen and a build up of lactic acid that cause the heart to stop beating (“arrest”). This is different from “positional asphyxia” where factors such as body position and external pressure prevent one mechanically from breathing. Regardless, the manner of death is homicide, meaning his death was caused by the police, not natural causes.
Sorry.
It was obviously the covid-19 he had that killed him.
Case closed
Floyd is dead because he was stupid. His fault.
+10
EB
You misunderstand what the word “complicating” means. In the FBI 302 it is reported that the ME said specifically what he meant by that was that Floyd died during, after OR as a result of the actions by officers. No necessary implication of causality. He also is reported to have said that the stress induced by the struggle with officers PRIOR TO having been put on the ground may have contributed to his death.
Yes, when you commit suicide by overdose then exerting yourself can accelerate your death. Not the cops’ problem – they had a psycho acting out, and restrained him for the protection of themselves and the community.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/medical-examiner-concludes-george-floyd-didnt-die-of-asphyxia
The full report by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner’s office is pending but so far has found “no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation.”
The prosecution appears to be arguing for “positional” asphyxiation. This would not necessarily leave any physical evidence and so could be consistent with the ME’s observations. Hard to see, however, how this possibility amounts to proof beyond a reasonable doubt. The other argument the prosecution appears to be setting up is that Chauvin was required to have either ended his restraint earlier than he did or to have himself provided medical care, and that his failure to do so allowed Floyd to die. Again, hard to see how this can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt.
Nobody cares. The dead guy’s black. The cop’s white. They’ll either hang him in court, or hang him after in the black urban riots. Black privilege.
@Turley: you wrote: “However, it should be noted that the Mayo Clinic report also addresses “Non-heart-related (non cardiogenic) pulmonary edema” and “Negative pressure pulmonary edema,” which could be used to support the prosecution’s theory.”
—
Uhm… did you actually read the Mayo Clinic article?
Based on what you reported… Floyd suffered from both cardiogenic and non-cardiogenic pulmonary edema outside of any restraint was used. (restraint would be the cause of negative pressure pulmonary edema. )
In short if you do a timeline of the event… Floyd was already in cardiac distress … cardiac arrest before being restrained by Chauvin. In short, he was already dying. So no… negative pressure pulmonary edema wouldn’t help the prosecution’s case. We already have video footage and audio that would help the defense.
“It’s the [venue], stupid!”
– James Carville
_____________
2. Venue Change From Santa Monica to Downtown LA
Bugliosi is livid about this in Outrage. He has a good right to be. This was a shady, shady deal. Bugliosi pins this on a political move by the LA County Da, Gil Garcetti, who Bugliosi greases as a political hack of the lowest form.
Bugliosi may be right, or he may be wrong, about DA Garcetti’s character. But the decision to venue change from the suburban crime scene jurisdiction of Santa Monica to the urban downtown core of the City of Angeles was a fatal move. The juror gene pool racial demographics of inner LA compared to outer SM are cheese to chalk. The juror perceptions are even further apart.
O.J. Simpson and Nicole Brown-Simpson lived in upscale Santa Monica because that’s where their peers lived. O.J. was no more inner-city black than I am an Ivy League white. There’s a thing in jury common law that says a person has the right to be tried by peers in their local jurisdiction. (It might even be in the Constitution—yes, just checked. Amendment 6 covers this for US citizens.) Putting the Simpson case into a downtown LA jury pool, rather than into a Santa Monica peer-pool—a lesser-educated and racially different peer-pool—entirely changed the social dynamics, and this seriously affected the jury panel’s psyche.
– dyingwords.net
Chauvin is probably guilty of misconduct. He’s probably not guilty of murder. That’s a reasonable doubt. That will also be a riot.
I hope Guatemalans don’t cancel out too many votes in 2022 because the Democrats will lose control of their social-justice cannibals at some point. I hope we don’t lose control of Democrats.
Turley finally comes to the same conclusion I have been talking about in other forums for the past month.
The simple fact that Floyd started to go into cardiac arrest prior to Chauvin arriving on scene.
Taking in to consideration all of the factors edema, coronary artery disease, potentially lethal level of fentanyl and add to this the stress caused by being arrested… He was already dying before Chauvin was on the scene.
With 11 ng/ml of fentanyl in the blood stream… there wouldn’t be anything that anyone could have done when Floyd went into cardiac arrest.
Even manslaughter would be hard to prove with that toxicology report.
Chauvin should be fired for his continued use of the restraint, but he didn’t kill Floyd. Floyd was already dead, but didn’t know it.
Love the increasingly insane common denominator of conversation here.
The same, with opposite sign, you get at NYT / WaPo DON’T confuse with NYPo. This country is “nicely” divided.
The prosecution has not proved, “Beyond a reasonable doubt, and to a moral certainty”, that the officer killed him…No matter what happens, Floyd was already dead, he just hadn’t shut down…When the state doesn’t prove their case, and the case was overcharged, to begin with, you wind up with a repeat of the “State of Florida vs Casey Anthony”…Get ready, for the “Summer of ’21 Riots”…