The office of New York Attorney General Letitia James has publicly released a statement that it is now pursuing a criminal rather than a purely civil investigation against the Trump Organization. The investigation is being handled in conjunction with the Manhattan district attorney’s office. The investigations appear to focus on tax and business dealings. While I have challenged claims of a long litany “slam dunk” crimes related to Russia or Ukraine (or even tweets) that legal experts declared regularly on outlets like CNN and MSNBC, I have long opposed Trump’s effort to withhold his tax records and viewed these tax and transactional crimes as the greatest threat for actual prosecution. Tax and fraud cases are easier to prosecute and more difficult to defend in court.
James’ office has been investigating the Trump Organization since 2019 and announced this week that the civil investigation now has a criminal component:
“We have informed the Trump Organization that our investigation into the organization is no longer purely civil in nature. We are now actively investigating the Trump Organization in a criminal capacity, along with the Manhattan DA.”
Investigating a large organization on tax and fraud issues tends to be a target-rich environment. Real estate is an area notorious for the manipulation of assets and their stated worth. Assets are often undervalued to reduce tax exposure or overvalued to secure bank loans. The greatest danger is when the same assets are involved in such reporting controversies.
Investigators have deposed a slew of Trump Organization officials including Eric Trump, the former President’s son, and Chief Financial Officer Allen Weisselberg.
There could also be upcoming privilege fights over demands for information from tax attorney Sheri Dillon.
One objection is that this is selective prosecution. We previously discussed that issue in the context of James’ investigation of the National Rifle Association. James also ran on the pledge to relentlessly pursue Trump and his aides. In this controversy, the Trump counsel is likely to argue that such reporting tactics are common to the real estate field. However, selective prosecution claims are notoriously difficult to argue. Selective prosecution is a sometimes a viable defense when it is used against a group with discriminatory purpose. See United States v. Armstrong, 517 U.S. 456, 116 S. Ct. 1480 (1996), Yick Wo v. Hopkins, 118 U.S. 356 (1886). The key is that the proof of a prosecution “directed so exclusively against a particular class of persons … with a mind so unequal and oppressive” that it violates the guarantee of equal prosecution under the law.
Likewise, malicious prosecution claims are overwhelmingly rejected. This is usually the basis for a civil lawsuit after prevailing in the criminal system. However, it requires an extremely high showing of abuse. In the criminal system, courts tend to disregard arguments based on the motivations of prosecutors. State prosecutors like James are elected and are often motivated by politics. However, courts are focused on whether the underlying allegations would constitute a crime if proven.
As a defense attorney, I would be more focused on cooperative agreements at this stage, particularly with Weisselberg. Tax and fraud cases are comparatively easier to prove than crimes like obstruction but his cooperation could make this a slam dunk. Moreover, he could convert an investigation into the Trump Organization and make it an investigation into Trump himself. The question is whether Trump was or should have been aware of illegality in the reporting of assets.
I worked combating serious money laundering cases for years. The threats out there are extremely more pressing than going after, again, the President. Why waste huge resources to go on a fishing expedition and come up with pathetic charges. The answer is simple…here we go again! Liz Cheney made her bed and then stated we can never let President Trump get anywhere near the Presidency again. She took the Democrats 4 year playbook and made this declaration. People forget the voters don’t have to care about peripheral opinions. If we choose to support President Trump in the future for political office it is our right and we’ll do it. Yet, this “criminal” investigation is attempting to put the political nail in the coffin as they have tried for four years, with either illegal or corrupt attacks (FISA). If this one falls flat they’ll try for the umteenth time to try again. They are trying and trying to make something stick. Again, what I’ve seen in terms of crime and money laundering, it is a crime at best or another abuse of power to use the justice system for a political benefit. Think about the prosecutors around the country who have tried this only to have been removed for biased or corrupt findings. There is too much division in this country because (and they irrationally blame Trump for everything) corrupt and selfish practices are used and there are no checks and balances. This country will falter if we keep it up.
As an aside, Trump and his organization has gone through this scrutiny for as far back as I can think of…will this one stick? Maybe, maybe not. What good and harm will it do? Many absolutely don’t care about the state of this nation and are oblivious to the real threats out there. Using serious subjects for political gain or means will tear at our fabric. It is a real travesty and very dangerous.
President Trump could take his business(es) out of New York. Take a bunch of others with him.
Prosecutors are elected. So the office is by definition and practice controlled by politics.
About 10 years ago we went out to eat on Friday night. We had heard about a new steakhouse in a small town near us, and went to check it out. We had a good time, food was good, not great, good service and the locals were friendly. Overall a good night.
On the way out of town the local cop pulled us over. I asked why, he did not respond, took license and registration. Came back with a ticket for doing 42 in a 35. I disagreed with him. I as seen the posted sign, and well aware of small town speed traps, I’m a slow learner, but learn none the less. He said show up for court.
So we just went home, and I said I would just pay the ticket.
But I did sit down and write a letter to the editor of the county wide daily paper, explaining what happened. In short I said I had arrived in town to support the local economy and do what I can do for the survival of rural small towns, rather that eat at Applebees, or Perkins. I copied the letter to the editor, and mailed it to the City office with my contact information.
The Mayor did call, apologized and sent me SmalltownBucks to use in their town to ease my pain and said my expeince was the push he needed to fire the one town cop they had. It was $100. We went back and ate their again and spent about half of it and told the owner to keep the rest and get reimbursed from the fund. We we never about the money.
The point was not if I was speeding or not, I don’t think I was, but if I were, I was not putting anyone in danger. And driving out of towners from your community is not a good culture to cultivate.
President Trump has political pressure to apply if he wants to.
No, the point IS if you were speeding or not. Why do you think you’re above the law because your “doing your part to support the poor shlubs in rural america?”
I was not placing anyone in harms way. This is small town Main business district is two blocks long. ^ 6 blocks from the restaurant to the hwy leaving town. It is a design speed trap to generate revenue from out of towners. A yes I paid the ticket without a fight.
The restaurant did not survive. I have no idea why.
Iowan2, so by your own admission you are ok with breaking the law as long as it doesn’t harm anyone, right?
Why bother obeying it? If you own a gun we can safely assume that you’re not a law abiding citizen, therefore shouldn’t be allowed to own a gun….because it only law abiding citizens should have a right to own a gun.
The fact that you admitted you’re not a law abiding citizen seems to seriously question your credibility.
When you’re a dumb ideologue there’s no help, and you’re proof of that. Your ideology solely causes you to deny the existence of speed traps, their purpose and effect. You probably broke several laws yourself in the past week, laws you don’t even know exist. Any one whom ever used another person’s Rx for any reason committed a felony.
Imagine the howls if any powerful member of Team Blue was treated the same way – prosecuted in search of a crime.
Mark, “ Imagine the howls if any powerful member of Team Blue was treated the same way – prosecuted in search of a crime.”
That has already happened multiple times. Exhibit A. Hillary Clinton.
Republicans engaged in investigations upon investigations searching for a crime. She WAS treated the same way.
Difference is Hillary didn’t throw childish tantrums like Trump has. She even endured 11 hrs. Of questioning from republicans. Trump can’t handle 5 minutes before skulking away.
Congressional investigations are a far cry from using the supposedly non partisan justice system to punish your opponents.
If you think the country is divided now or that political violence is disturbing, just wait until one consequence of losing elections is the forfeiture of your freedom. I have lived in the Third World and seen the street violence that happens when politicians feel justified in maintaining their personal paramilitary organizations.
Of course Clinton did coverup her actions.
Exactly what was our Ambassador doing in Bengahzi, with a couple of CIA hitters?
Ha! You mean the same Hillary who laughed when she got a child rapist/murderer off? The same Hillary who lied under oath to congress? The same Hillary who conspired with her husband and others to pressure banks to loan money and “invest” in a scam real estate project to take advantage and steal from old people? The same Hillary whose hubby PARDONED their partners in crime after he became el presidente?
Turley listed several proofs that HRC committed multiple felonies (email security breaches, each of thousands of email is and was a separate felony) and walked. The fact the FBI gave immunity to her assistants and got nothing (never ever happens) further proves the FBI, then run by DNC troll James Comey, was in the tank for HRC.
Left progressive TDS victims are the first to cry that Trump being impeached twice proves he’s guilty of something, but they just ignore all the multiple proofs that HRC committed multiple felonies and walked.
The late Michael Piper made a great case that the CIA recruited both Bill and Hillary in college to monitor leftist anti-war college students. Q: are the Klintons greedy? Q: would they have refused almost endless monetary riches and endless political favors in college when all they had to do was stab their stupid college friends in the back? “Keep your friends close and your enemies closer” has always been a CIS proverb. John Kerry was likely recruited too in college.
What else can explain multiple obvious felony crimes without consequence by the Klinton Krime Syndikat? They got under the umbrella of CIA protection at the very start. This is also consistent with Bill running drugs for the CIA out of the AR State House, and so many of their personal assistants in AR dying in the most strange circumstances, e.g. suicide shot gun to the back of the head, 3 persons shot execution style in a Starbucks assassination without robbery, etc. etc.
What’s wrong Turley, this one doesn’t rise to the level of investigation either? When the heat gets to be to much on Trump, Turley will change the subject, count on it.
What’s wrong “FISH-GUTS”, things in his article didn’t go your way to suit you perfectly so you mewl, pitch an online conniption fit. I voted for President Trump. And I am a conservative. But, I am not a hardcore extreme far right partisan. Like you.
Too., not to, you moron.
When will the NY AG look into Cuomo?
They will be plowing through those records for months, probably for years. The company doesn’t just own, operate, license their own stuff, they also enter into partnerships with other entities. In 2018 there were 154 active entities registered in NYS with the name Trump in it and that would not include the partnerships/LLCs the organization is a member of. All those profits/losses of the partnerships/LLCs pass through to either the parent Trump Organization or to Trump himself and/or family. Tax fraud will be dicey…you would have to ‘audit’ those other entities as well. In terms of valuation, that can be pretty subjective when determining what a partnership interest is worth, it is not always based on hard assets but also ‘name value’. So, if anyone is thinking (and hoping) this will bring down the king, I wouldn’t hold my breath. On a personal level, Trump, and people with what I can imagine his tax return to look like, are generally audited every year or every three years by the IRS.
Only real question left here is which trump family member rolls first.
eb 5000
Has it occurred to you nobody as made an accusation of a crime? So all are innocent.
Michael Cohen made several accusations, even going to jail for trump on one of them, while making clear cut accusations around tax and insurance fraud on others. So, no, your statement hasn’t occured to me. Trump was also an unindicted co-conspirator in the pay off of Stormy Daniels. Again, by defintition he’s not inocent. There have also been accusations of fraud around his inauguration fund and trump and family have been legally barred from running any sort of foundation in NY state due to stealing fron the ones they had before. Trump had to pay a 25 million settlement in order to avoid being deposed in the class action against him just prior to entering office. He’s also been accused of upwards of 20 sexual harrassment cases, one of them being an actual rape…
The head in the sand tactic around trump is just so over, man. He’s a con man and a walking fraud case.
eb 8675309
I also should mention I subcontracted for a guy working for the trump organization. Trump ripped him off with standard sleazy trump tactics, which filtreed down to me getting paid really late for my work for much less than the original agreement. So a) I know how trump works, and b) yes, I am biased…, but you can say rightfully so.
eb 25bc
I had a guy who complained about working for Trump. I hired him for a relatively small job. I learned why Trump didn’t pay him the full amount. I wish I was as smart as Trump. He didn’t do what he was contracted for and used his expertise to oversell.
There are two sides to every dispute, but dumb people only look at one side.
Probably best to look at your hiring criteria then.
The guy i worked for (a landscape architect) worked for the trump organization for more than a year and got thoroughly played in the ways trump is famous for (his standard ‘renegotiation’ schtick)…
Why is it when trumpers hear of these experiences they don’t ever come up with anything other than ‘yes, trump should’ve ripped off (fill in the blank)…?
Says a lot about you.
eb 9000
We believe a deal is made by a buyer and a seller.
There is something known as a ‘special tax’ if one is fortunate enough to live in a rich environment. That ‘tax’ is laden with promises of work that will meet the price. When it doesn’t, there is conflict.
People know who Trump is, and contracts are written to protect both sides. I wonder why people continue to work for him when you believe he is so bad. Many praise him as a boss.
Both sides know what they are getting into. In my own business, I win a few and lose a few. In the end, it is not a big deal except to small minds that focus on this type of rubbish.
SM
I have thought for some time that the DOJ should somehow become an independent agency, not unlike how Social Security is run. Maybe NY State should consider that as well. While prosecutors have always been politicized to some degree, the degree of such politicization has grown exponentially since Mr. Trump had the temerity to beat The Chosen One in 2016. The extent of such politicization is damaging to the idea of the Rule of Law
The Trump defenders here aren’t claiming actual innocence. To those saying nothing has been proven before, let the record reflect that prosecutors never had his taxes before. It has been proven his charity was a fraud, his university defrauded tens of thousands, his son diverted funds from a cancer charity for kids, his campaign deceived one-time donors and wiped out many supporter bank accounts by making their donations weekly. Ivanka and Don Jr were let off the hook on real estate fraud charges. None of you think he’s innocent, just that it’s somehow unfair that he be prosecuted because he’s you’re kind of criminal.
+100
And I’d add to that, Trump’s first act as president was to steal 50 million from his Inauguration fund.
eb 007
Not true.
The more they look under that rock, the more crimes will come out from under the rock.
Since 2016 the left has been looking under the rocks and only finding leftist malfeasance.
Investigation after investigation and two impeachments, but the only things found are the left lies continuously and doesn’t bother looking at the crimes from their leader and his family, Joe Biden.
I don’t accuse you of being a liar, only an incompetent ignoramus.
Anonymous, so I take it you condemn all the fruitless investigations on Hillary Clinton as well? After all they were doing the same thing Trump is enduring now.
She was never properly investigated and she never completely responded to the allegations. For political reasons her transgressions were forgotten about.
Here is a recent blurb telling us that the initial investigation into the Clinton Foundation was likely incomplete. May 11, 2021
—-
Judge orders IRS to reveal if it criminally investigated Clinton Foundation, citing records ‘gap’
Tax court refuses to dismiss whistleblowers’ case involving famous political family charity, remands case back to agency to fill in blanks.
A U.S. Tax Court judge has ordered the Internal Revenue Service to reveal if it criminally investigated the Clinton Foundation, directing the agency to cure a mysterious “gap” in its records in the case.
https://justthenews.com/accountability/whistleblowers/w-judge-orders-irs-reveal-if-it-criminally-investigated-clinton
SM
Anonymous SM,
“ She was never properly investigated and she never completely responded to the allegations. For political reasons her transgressions were forgotten about.”
Just like Trump.
Plus “she was never properly investigated”, Ha! Republicans were conducting multiple investigations over a course if nearly 10 years. Not a single charge was made. No crime found.
So Trump being properly investigated means it’s….unfair?
This is just like the Russia Scam. The shoe is about to drop. Lots of drip drip drip of leaked lies to smear the President.
The process is the punishment. My bet is nothing happens until late 2023, early 2024, and then only if President Trump runs again.
Let’s see them investigate Cuomo by turning over every rock.
Hint: it will never happen. Not because Cuomo is clean, but because he is THAT dirty and the New York AG is too afraid to do her job.
Negative. Another far left lie that they wish, Wish was true. And if it had of been true, it would have done been indicted, then prosecuted…..
Garland, it takes time to put together evidence for trial. Since they just got access to his tax records they have more pieces of the puzzle to connect.
+100
let the record reflect that prosecutors never had his taxes before.
Of course “they” did. Obama had his taxes and all of his communications If there was something there, the charges would already have been filed.
The punishment is the proccess.
What a dolt.
The process is being used in an attempt A. to make President Trump toxic in the business world. B, a warning to any DC outsider from trying such a stunt again. Or suffer A.
This has been a criminal investigation for awhile now, at least dating back to Michael Cohen interviews. The public announcement probably coincides with a formal arrangement on corrorboration…, probably Weisleberg. And, of course, we have Rudy kicking in the background.
eb 1964
And don’t forget all the “charity” money. And the bankruptcies, and the inauguration money. The list could go on and on.
Bill & Hillary, John Kerry, Joke Biden and of course Hunter Biden have been standing in line for a very long time: they
must be prosecuted first.
BUT..BUT…Her e-mails
It’s hard to figure out what the suit is all about other than the prosecutors hate Trump and they are using their power to intimidate and neutralize him. They should be disbarred.
The prosecutors do not believe in rule of law. One of the accusations, high appraisal for bank loans and low appraisal for taxes is ridiculous. No property has a singular price until actually sold. There is a wide range. Bank loan appraisals are validated by the bank’s experts and are completely different than appraisals for taxes.
Such different appraisal values would make every property owner a target for the Manhattan DA.
S. Meyer,
The issue will be about exposing deliberate manipulation of property values for tax purposes. Given Trump’s clear history of gaming the system and avoiding paying taxes, he stands a good chance of being indicted for tax fraud.
Now that prosecutors have full access to his tax records they may have enough evidence to initiate a criminal investigation. Since it is Trump the prosecution will be very thorough with it’s evidence. That’s why Trump fought so hard to keep his records from the prosecution.
“Given Trump’s clear history of gaming the system”
Meaningless
” and avoiding paying taxes”
He followed the IRS rules.
“he stands a good chance of being indicted for tax fraud. ”
He declared his earnings and his deductions. Then his accountants followed the rules. There is no fraud in doing so.
“Now that prosecutors have full access to his tax records”
They had loads of tax filings earlier.
“may have”
You may have enough common sense to realize your responses are foolish. That you ‘may have’ doesn’t mean you have.
Anonymous, “ Given Trump’s clear history of gaming the system”
Meaningless”
Nope. Trump’s clear pattern of fraudulent behavior reinforces will reinforce the evidence against him.
“ ” and avoiding paying taxes”
He followed the IRS rules.”
That’s in dispute. If he falsely inflated the value of his properties to get bank loans and lowers them for tax purposes that is not following IRS rules.
“ he stands a good chance of being indicted for tax fraud. ”
He declared his earnings and his deductions. Then his accountants followed the rules. There is no fraud in doing so.”
He declared his earnings and deductions, but his full tax records provide more than just the basics. His accountants are under scrutiny because they too can be on the hook if they falsified information on the returns. There is fraud in doing so and it’s one of the aspects being investigated.
“ Now that prosecutors have full access to his tax records”
They had loads of tax filings earlier.”
Nope. Not the more comprehensive ones they needed and the ones Trump was fighting to keep.
“ may have”
You may have enough common sense to realize your responses are foolish. That you ‘may have’ doesn’t mean you have.”
Here you just show us how deep your ignorance goes.
Common sense dictates that if they can publicly state that their investigation is now a criminal one it can mean that they have enough evidence to make such a declaration.
That’s why it’s significant.
You talk without proof. That is the sign of a person that knows little.
What is the “pattern of fraudulent behavior” that you are talking about? You don’t have an answer to this or anything else except for the generalities of an ignorant person.
“That’s in dispute. If he falsely inflated the value of his properties to get bank loans and lowers them for tax purposes that is not following IRS rules.”
Wrong.
“his full tax records provide more than just the basics”
What basics are you talking about?
“Nope. Not the more comprehensive ones they needed and the ones Trump was fighting to keep.” If he committed fraud, they had enough a lot earlier. The IRS investigated his taxes. The Manhattan DA is on a fishing trip for political reasons.
“Here you just show us how deep your ignorance goes. ”
Tell me what I have said that indicates ignorance. You have said virtually nothing. Most of what you have said is wrong.
“Common sense dictates that if they can publicly state that their investigation ”
This investigation is just like the countless other investigations over the past five years. You are a fool.
Anonymous SM.
“ Tell me what I have said that indicates ignorance.”
You said, “ He declared his earnings and his deductions. Then his accountants followed the rules. There is no fraud in doing so.”
Declaring earnings and deductions is not a comprehensive list of all of his taxes. You being ignorant as usual should know that tax returns, especially those of his organization are much more than just showing “earnings and deductions”. The New York AG didn’t have access to 8 years of tax returns that were needed to investigate the claims made under oath by Cohen.
The AG had the authority to subpoena the tax records in order to investigate. Trump fought it in court and ultimately lost. Now that the AG has access to the comprehensive tax information, 8 years worth, they can dig deeper into the claims.
“his full tax records provide more than just the basics”
What basics are you talking about?”
The basics that YOU’RE talking about dumba$$. Your words, “He declared his earnings and deductions”.
His tax returns involve much more than just earnings and deductions AND that didn’t include 8 years of tax returns that include real estate holdings, their claimed values, losses, etc. Does that clarify things for you or do I need to dumb it down more?
“That’s in dispute. If he falsely inflated the value of his properties to get bank loans and lowers them for tax purposes that is not following IRS rules.”
Wrong.“
You’re goin to have to do more than that. You demand proof when you question certain claims. Show me why it’s wrong.
“ What is the “pattern of fraudulent behavior” that you are talking about? You don’t have an answer to this or anything else except for the generalities of an ignorant person.”
Anonymous SM, it’s commonly known that Trump engages in fraudulent behavior. You’re just being deliberately ignorant about it.
There’s a reason why U.S. banks won’t do business with Trump and why only a few foreign banks deal with him.
He constant stiffs contractors, vendors catering his campaigns.
Using his “ charitable foundation” as a personal piggy bank.
Trump university, defrauding students, he settled out of court because he knew he wouldn’t win.
There are plenty more examples
The latest one was stealing his supporters money by engaging in fraudulent practices once reserved for sketchy subscription companies.
“Declaring earnings and deductions is not a comprehensive list of all of his taxes.”
It is where the taxpayer is concerned. The accountants figure out all the complicated stuff. That taxpayer’s responsibility is to disclose perceived additions to wealth (earnings) and the expenses (what goes out).
Tell us what else any taxpayer would be doing. I’m making things super simple because you have an intellectual deficiency. The tax returns delve into the mechanics of the tax law, but accountants and lawyers do that. Appraisers do the estimation of property values. Trump can only give his opinion as a businessman. That number will differ from the number the IRS is looking for because they weigh things differently and therefore come up with different numbers.
Again, I ask what other basics are you talking about? You seem to lack understanding of what you are talking about. His belief in how much his property is worth is not pertinent. That is his belief as a businessman. He is more intelligent than most. Mar a Lago’s price was low when he purchased it. He bought it because he estimated it was worth a lot more. It was. That is how little you know about the different types of value placed on different things.
But back to the question, precisely what other basics is Trump responsible for rather than his Certified Public Accountant and Tax Lawyers? You seem unable to provide an answer.
How does telling a bank the property is worth $20 million instead of $ 10 million or $40 million affect the taxes? Please answer the question instead of evading it for lack of knowledge. I will repeat what I said previously, “You don’t have an answer to this or anything else except for the generalities of an ignorant person.”
“Anonymous SM, it’s commonly known that Trump engages in fraudulent behavior. ”
Yet you can’t name and prove the fraudulent behavior. That is a sign of an ignorant person.
People continued to flock to Trump to loan money and become business partners. That proves your statement to be very stupid.
“Using his “charitable foundation” as a personal piggy bank.”
Tell us what money went from his charitable foundation back into his personal bank account. Dumb people make all sorts of claims but are unable to provide the facts and proof.
“Trump University, defrauding students, he settled out of court because he knew he wouldn’t win.”
That case died until he ran for President. Then an ambulance chaser came to revive it because Trump had to settle while running for President. I think most of our universities are defrauding students in a worse fashion.
You keep providing debunked claims. That is pretty stupid since you can’t give the evidence now any better than you could before.
SM
Anonymous SM, “ It is where the taxpayer is concerned. The accountants figure out all the complicated stuff. That taxpayer’s responsibility is to disclose perceived additions to wealth (earnings) and the expenses (what goes out).”
The FULL TAX RETURNS are not just declaring earnings and deductions.
The taxpayer with a lot of assets provides the accountant with the ‘ins’ and ‘outs’ along with the assets and a few details.. The accountant does the difficult work. Trump is not responsible for the outcome. That is based on the law and the competence of the accountant. That is why I find it very difficult to believe Trump did anything criminal. His returns are viewed by the IRS and the big stuff has been subject to scrutiny by many cities, states and gaming commissions.
You need to brush up on anything that has to do with money and assets.
I am glad you recognize how wrong you were on the other things you complained about.
SM
As a ward of the state, Allan details out his understanding of the world, exposing severely limited cognition.
Yet, Anonymous the Stupid, I see you are unable to correct any of the things I say. Do you know why? Because you are Anonymous the Stupid.
Anonymous SM, “ Trump is not responsible for the outcome. That is based on the law and the competence of the accountant. That is why I find it very difficult to believe Trump did anything criminal”
As always you show us all just how ignorant you really are.
Yes Trump IS responsible for the outcome. Because he HAS to sign his returns which attest to its accuracy and honesty in its information. Not only do the accountants have to sign the returns, so does Trump. Because they are HIS tax returns for HIS company.
You went from “just declaring earnings and deductions” to “assets”.
All the accountants do is put together the returns using ALL the information Trump and his company provide.
“ His returns are viewed by the IRS and the big stuff has been subject to scrutiny by many cities, states and gaming commissions.”
Cities, states, and gaming commissions are NOT the IRS dumba$$.
Cities, and states and gaming commissions don’t just pick up and read tax returns when it’s convenient. The AG REQUIRES states or the federal government to provide them with the returns, in Trump’s case 8 years worth.
THEY need them in order to determine if Trump broke the law because of what Cohen said under oath. Geez Allan, you’re one dense fella.
“Yes Trump IS responsible for the outcome. Because he HAS to sign his returns which attest to its accuracy and honesty in its information. ”
Svelaz, you are so ignorant. We are talking about criminal behavior. Trump is responsible for the inputs, such as what he earns or deducts. If he conspires with the accountants, he can be responsible for accounting types of criminal behavior, but all this is unlikely. You are unable to put together what is known. What is known makes criminal behavior unlikely in his case.
1) He has had multiple investigations thrown at him by many different agencies. Despite the extensive nature of the investigations, he has always come out clean (criminal-wise). That means he is careful.
2) You complain about his huge tax deduction, which leads him to pay less in income taxes, though he pays plenty of taxes. Why would Trump criminally cheat where he already pays low taxes and has large deductions.
3) The major items on his tax bill have been extensively investigated by the IRS. The IRS is not his friend.
4) He is not a mom-and-pop business where one pockets the money, and the IRS never finds out about it. Are you stupid enough to believe he sits at the entrance window of one of his clubs collecting the fee and pocketing it?
5) He is dealing with major investments that leave paper trails.
6) All of the above are good reasons to assume tax-wise he is unlikely to have done anything criminal, but you are that ignorant.
This last point has to do with his business plan. He doesn’t go alone. There are many investors. If he is pocketing money illegally, his business partners would be losing money. I trust them to look after their pocketbooks more than I trust the DA from NYC and NYS, whose only interest is satisfying Democrat dreams.
You are a fool who knows nothing about the financial world.
“Cities, states, and gaming commissions are NOT the IRS dumba$$.”
Svelaz, are you too dumb to know that the IRS looked at his taxes in addition to the other entities? I just posted 6 reasons why it is unlikely that Trump has committed a criminal act with regard to his taxes.
Now you can answer them one by one, but you won’t because you are too dumb.
SM
Anonymous SM, “Svelaz, you are so ignorant. We are talking about criminal behavior. Trump is responsible for the inputs, such as what he earns or deducts. If he conspires with the accountants, he can be responsible for accounting types of criminal behavior, but all this is unlikely. ”
Now you’re twisting the argument. We are talking about Trumps tax returns and what you originally claimed it involves which is “declaring earnings and deductions.” That is not Criminal behavior. What IS criminal behavior is lying to your bank and the IRS about the values of property.
Trump HAS to sign his tax return attesting that all the information within it regardless of whether his accountants or himself put it there is true and correct. By signing his tax returns he is directly responsible for the outcomes they produce and what he’s literally telling the IRS about his finances. It’s a legal document that if you lie about anything and the IRS finds out they can come and investigate and if laws were broken charge you.
“1) He has had multiple investigations thrown at him by many different agencies. Despite the extensive nature of the investigations, he has always come out clean (criminal-wise). That means he is careful.”
He hasn’t come out clean, because the investigations are still ongoing. He’s not careful, he’s actually very sloppy, Trump is not really a smart guy. Smart people don’t ramble incoherently when confronted with accusations.
“2) You complain about his huge tax deduction, which leads him to pay less in income taxes, though he pays plenty of taxes. Why would Trump criminally cheat where he already pays low taxes and has large deductions.”
I never complained about his huge tax deductions, here you’re putting words into my mouth. “though he pays plenty of taxes.” the leaked returns that surfaced during his presidency showed he paid ZERO in taxes for years. The most he paid was $730.
“3) The major items on his tax bill have been extensively investigated by the IRS. The IRS is not his friend.”
The IRS wasn’t looking for fraud, The New York AG is. The IRS was subpoenaed by the NY AG for Trumps tax records so they could investigate if he committed tax fraud in New York state.
“4) He is not a mom-and-pop business where one pockets the money, and the IRS never finds out about it. Are you stupid enough to believe he sits at the entrance window of one of his clubs collecting the fee and pocketing it?”
Nobody assumes that SM. You”re only one making that assumption. That’s just you being a dumba$$.
“5) He is dealing with major investments that leave paper trails.”
I thought you said his accountants do that, not trump. ironically it’s those paper trails that involve information in his tax returns which is exactly what is being investigated.
“6) All of the above are good reasons to assume tax-wise he is unlikely to have done anything criminal, but you are that ignorant. ”
No SM, all the reasons you put up are pointless ramblings that do nothing to support your already poor argument. Your nemesis “Anonymous the stupid” is correct, you ARE pretty stupid. Good luck with that.
The DA announced they are looking into criminal activities. That is what the discussion is all about. We all can be audited, but unless we committed a criminal act, the only question is whether or not the taxes were calculated correctly by the accountant. But for the DA making their claims, criminal prosecution of Trump for tax problems would not be under discussion.
In any event, most of the things you have said about taxes and the IRS are wrong.
“We are talking about Trumps tax returns and what you originally claimed it involves which is”
Meyer said: “declaring earnings and deductions.”
“That is not Criminal behavior.”
You’re mistaken. That is where most people run into potential criminal trouble with the IRS if they are not conspiring to defraud the government with their CPA or other partners.
“What IS criminal behavior is lying to your bank and the IRS about the values of property.”
What is the lie? It is a personal opinion. You still haven’t learned the difference between an opinion and a lie.
“Trump HAS to sign his tax return”
Tell us brainless one where there is a place for the person to list what he thinks his property is worth?
1) “He hasn’t come out clean”
Where has he been? The man has been doing business for over 50 years without any criminal convictions. The DA is looking to hang one on him for political reasons.
2) With such a significant deduction, why does he need to cheat on his taxes?
3) “The IRS wasn’t looking for fraud”
Since when doesn’t the IRS look for fraud. Do you file taxes, or are you on welfare?
4) The example demonstrates the difficulty of Trump illegally hiding money from the government. Is your brain made of solid concrete?
5) “I thought you said his accountants do that, not trump.”
The paper trail is with every accountant, every investor, and their accountants. Add to that, everyone else plus their accountants where there was an exchange of money or assets.
These five reasons are why I believe no one will find any criminal activity based on his IRS forms. Almost all of it is available without his personal forms.
You say I have said nothing to demonstrate my point. I believe you to believe that. However, that is sad because it proves that your mind functions at a deficient level.
Anonymous SM,
“ How does telling a bank the property is worth $20 million instead of $ 10 million or $40 million affect the taxes? ”
Boy you’re really Ignorant.
Pay attention SM. If you tell the bank the property is worth $20 million instead of $10million or $40 million in order fo get a loan and you tell the IRS that same property is only worth $3 million on your tax return the law clearly states that is fraud. Because you TOLD the IRS in your tax return that you had a LIEN on the property, meaning you have a loan out on it, for property valued at $20 million. The IRS will want to know how the bank could loan you an amount of money far more than what it’s worth. That immediately raises red flags. You committed fraud against the bank and you lied on your tax return which is a crime.
The current criminal investigation on Trump involves finding out if trump has been doing something like that. That’s why the New York AG needed 8 years of Trump’s tax returns and that’s why he was fighting so hard to prevent them from obtaining them.
“the law clearly states that is fraud. ”
You can’t tell us the law, so you won’t. When I ask for a loan, I base the property’s value on what I am doing with it. The bank evaluates all the components, not just the land value. One can look at a property or business in different ways and come up with many valuations.
But all that is beside the point. The IRS doesn’t tax based on ownership of something valuable until it is sold at a profit. The IRS taxes profit (or the appearance of profit), so what you are saying is plain stupid. To say it another way, the federal taxes on my home don’t change whether it is worth $10M or $5M. There are no federal taxes on my house. What is involved are deductions that have nothing to do with assumed value.
“The IRS will want to know how the bank could loan you an amount of money far more than what it’s worth.”
Firstly it would be another federal agency that would be involved. Secondly, that would be the bank’s problem unless I illegally conspired with the bank or did something else illegal. The bank determines how much they will loan and the terms. The individual decides whether or not the terms are acceptable. Taxes are not part of this deal.
“You committed fraud against the bank and you lied on your tax return which is a crime.”
Tell us how and cite the law.
Your conclusions are based on ignorance. The likelihood of Trump having criminal liability for his taxes are low. The DA is on a fishing exhibition and would more likely find criminal behavior on your part than on Trump’s.
I was hoping you could note how you avoided 5 of the other points that tell you why I don’t believe Trump will have any criminal liability over his taxes. You are ignorant, so you don’t bother to look at the law or think in terms of probabilities.
Here’s some basic help for you, A dog…
Introduction to Appraisal Fraud
Appraisal fraud is a kind of mortgage fraud which deliberately assesses the value of a home at an inflated price, which is more than its fair market value (FMV). Appraisal fraud can happen when an appraiser is on the scam, and the property’s value is dishonestly overstated. It may also occur when the homeowner, seller, or buyer physically alters a “honest” assessment using methods, such as digital editing or bribery.
How Does an Appraisal Fraud Function?
Appraisal fraud is one of the most common forms of mortgage fraud that occurs when the property’s value is falsely inflated (or deflated) by an appraiser (or buyer or seller) so that it diverges substantially from the fair market value.
The overstated value gained by appraisal fraud is generally used to:
Assist a seller get a better price than the market would have warranted otherwise
Assist a buyer get financing, as the mortgage amount could be much lower than the home’s estimated value
Assist a homeowner in obtaining the desired refinancing or house equity loan
More About Appraisal Fraud
Before a real estate transaction happens, if it includes a mortgage loan, in particular, a qualified property appraiser may determine the value of the land. In general, the appraiser walks carefully through the property, inspecting the interior and exterior spaces to arrive at the fair market value (or range of values) for which a property should reasonably be selling in the market.
In case the appraisal is too high or too low in comparison to the selling price agreed upon, a lender or a bank may renege on the credit. Assessment of property value is also used for tax purposes to estimate the amount of property taxes the owner is required to pay.
To safeguard themselves from this misdeed, banks often use a preferred appraiser to set up the appraisal themselves when underwriting a mortgage or refinancing a loan. In the case of an over-excessive valuation, the lender could ask the seller to lower the home price or refuse to lend if they believe the home price is excessive.
Now, a buyer can still choose to pay the inflated appraisal price, but a lender won’t use that price for their loan purposes, meaning that the buyer will have to pay the difference in the appraisal of the lender and the asking price.
“Introduction to Appraisal Fraud”
Anonymous the Stupid, I don’t know where you got this from but a person’s opinion as to how much his property is worth is not an official appraisal and is OPINION, not fraud. Due dilligence is something neither you nor Svelaz understand. It must hurt to be so dull.
If, however, an appraiser is used who lies that is fraud. If you, Anonymous the Stupid do not tell the truth about the property, that too might be fraud but is not appraisal fraud though it can lead to appraisal fraud.
Learn what you are talking about and read something that provides you all the information. Banks do their own evaluations. Taxing authorities do their own evaluations. Almost all of what Svelaz says is wrong. You know how to copy, but you do not know how to think.
Riight. Trump is the first person ever to use the tax system as written to legally pay less than what critics say he should. Blue check members never do that, right?
Mark, not if he deliberately inflated property values and undervalued them for tax purposes. The law was NOT written to allow that. Hence the investigation to determine if he actually did that.
Trump says his valuation for tax purposes was correct. Tell us how you think that alters how much money he pays in tax so we know what you are talking about.
If you take your home and say it is worth 1/10th of its value. Does that alter the tax you pay to the federal government? No. Tell us where the fraud is.
It is obvious you are ignorant about these things so all your comments are meaningless.
Anonymous SM, “ Trump says his valuation for tax purposes was correct. “
What Trump says is irrelevant what matters is what the law says. Trump can say whatever he thinks it’s correct, but you didn’t say whether the law says that’s correct. It’s what the law says that matters, not what Trump says.
“ If you take your home and say it is worth 1/10th of its value. Does that alter the tax you pay to the federal government? No. Tell us where the fraud is.”
Anonymous you’re really clueless about what you’re talking about.
You don’t get to arbitrarily decide how much your house is worth. The market determines that.
No bank will take YOUR seriously if it doesn’t meet market averages for your area.
Trump IS claiming a lower value on his properties so that IT DOES alter the tax you pay to the STATE.
The AG of NEW YORK STATE is investigating Trump’s tax records to determine if he is undervaluing his properties to avoid paying STATE taxes not federal. If trump is claiming these artificially devalued properties in his federal tax returns to pay less he’s committing tax fraud.
Anonymous SM, >> “Trump says his valuation for tax purposes was correct. “and continued with “Tell us how you think that alters how much money he pays in tax so we know what you are talking about.”
“What Trump says is irrelevant what matters is what the law says.”
Tell us Trump’s criminal violation of the law, including the proof.
“You don’t get to arbitrarily decide how much your house is worth. The market determines that. ”
The market is the buyer and seller. I told you that before, but you weren’t smart enough to learn that.
“No bank will take YOUR seriously if it doesn’t meet market averages for your area. ”
Banks are heavily regulated. That is why capital investors exist. Something else you don’t know.
“Trump IS claiming a lower value on his properties so that IT DOES alter the tax you pay to the STATE.”
How?
“The AG of NEW YORK STATE is investigating Trump’s tax records to determine if he is undervaluing his properties to avoid paying STATE taxes not federal. If Trump is claiming these artificially devalued properties in his federal tax returns to pay less he’s committing tax fraud.”
Trump can value his real estate in anyway he desires. However, the state determines the tax liability based on Trump producing what the relavant papers documenting what he owns and what he doesn’t own along with what he is doing with the property.
For instance, I paid a lot of money for a piece of land to be developed in the future because there was no doubt in my mind it was worth a lot more than what it was being sold for. To reduce taxes, I created a legal tree farm and sold trees. If I didn’t sell trees and declared I did, that would be a fraud.
“Trump IS claiming a lower value on his properties so that IT DOES alter the tax you pay to the STATE.”
Wrong. The state has appraisers and fixed rules on how to value a property. My property was valued based on how much I paid. The zoning increased the number of housing units which more than doubled my investment just a few months later. My taxes remained the same. If I wanted to borrow money, I would have secured it with a piece of land valued at double what the property taxes valued the land at.
Unless Trump lied or hid assets or profit (input) or claimed deductions (output) that were fraudulent, he unlikely did anything wrong. NYC, Las Vegas, and NJ have more information on Trump than his tax returns can show.
You are totally and irreversibly ignorant.
SM
Anonymous SM,
“Tell us Trump’s criminal violation of the law, including the proof.”
I haven’t accused trump of any criminal violation dumba$$. All I’m doing is pointing out WHY he is being criminally investigated by the NY AG. I’m pointing out the current allegations against him. Pay attention to this particular point. Are you ready? Trump is being CURRENTLY BEING INVESTIGATED FOR POSSIBLE CRIMINAL ACTIONS HE MAY HAVE COMMITTED. The proof will be provided when the investigation ends and charges brought up.
“Trump can value his real estate in anyway he desires. However, the state determines the tax liability based on Trump producing what the relavant papers documenting what he owns and what he doesn’t own along with what he is doing with the property.”
No, nobody can just make up any arbitrary value to property. The state determines the value of the property according to the market values of property nearby. That is how your property taxes are assessed. Trump can contest that assessment, but he cannot claim just any value he wishes. The market dictates what the value of the property is. He has to PROVE to the state that his property is the value he thinks it is by providing the property values of nearby property and similar properties around the state.
If he tells the bank that his property is worth $ 10 million and wants to borrow against it the bank HAS to asses it’s true value by comparing it against state valuations in order to determine if the amount he wants to borrow is covered by the property’s value. In case he defaults on it.
““Trump IS claiming a lower value on his properties so that IT DOES alter the tax you pay to the STATE.”
Wrong. The state has appraisers and fixed rules on how to value a property. My property was valued based on how much I paid. “Trump IS claiming a lower value on his properties so that IT DOES alter the tax you pay to the STATE.”
When the value of a property goes down the amount in taxes is less because the tax rate is assessed on the value of the property. This is simple math. IF Trump is inflating the values of his properties so he can get larger bank loans and telling the IRS or state revenue departments the values of his properties are much lower so he pays the lowest tax possible is fraud. That is what trump is being investigated for. The possibility of it. Right now the investigation is criminal in nature, which means there is evidence that’s what he is doing.
Again Allan, you don’t really know what you are trying to say. The state has appraisers that determine the value of property according to a set of rules AND THE MARKET. Your property was valued based on how much the market value of similar properties around yours are, not on what you paid for it. If your neighbors end up neglecting their properties and they go down in value, it directly affects how YOUR property is valued and that in turn affects how much you pay in taxes based on that lower value.
“The zoning increased the number of housing units which more than doubled my investment just a few months later. My taxes remained the same”
If you doubled your investment because of the zoning change that means the value of your property was doubled. But that also means your property taxes increased as well. The mill levy may be the same, but now you’re paying the same tax rate on double the value, That is an INCREASE on your property tax. It doesn’t stay the same.
“I haven’t accused Trump of any criminal violation dumba$$. All I’m doing is pointing out WHY he is being criminally investigated by the NY AG.”
Svelaz, you finally recognize that there is no evidence of Trump’s criminal tax fraud. You continuously inferred there was but could never spell it out. I guess you learned something from my six reasons and all the explanations I provided you in the earlier responses.
We are not supposed to investigate a person unless there is a reasonable reason to suspect a crime. That is what fascist governments do. The DA is on a fishing expedition for political reasons.
As foolish as you look at the present, you look a bit smarter by indirectly recognizing your mistakes. Unfortunately, from the place you came, you have a long road ahead.
“No, nobody can just make up any arbitrary value to property.”
Why not? Are you saying no one is allowed to have their own opinion?
I see in the rest of the paragraph you again have read what I told you and listened to some of it. That is good. It shows you can learn even if that process is very slow. You now recognize that it is not the individual that determines the price, the loan, or the tax. I’m glad you learned something. A fair-minded person who has followed this mini thread can easily see you tossing away your errors. That is good.
“When the value of a property goes down the amount in taxes is less ”
That is market value, not a person’s OPINION as to the value of his property. It would be best if you learned how not to conflate ideas so that you confuse yourself. It is not intelligent to do so, whether intentionally or due to a lack of understanding.
“If you doubled your investment because of the zoning change that means the value of your property was doubled. ”
Partially right. It means the value to me has presumably increased, but it doesn’t mean the taxing authorities will raise the price. More frequently, the taxing authorities will delay assessments and wait until sales. That might mean years.
There was a reasonable amount of time before that piece of property I owned was developed. The huge developer of the area was willing to pay double for the parcel, but the taxes didn’t rise substantially for several years. First, the roads, sewage, water, and electricity had to be brought in. The land had to be platted. The closer it came to the building and selling homes, the more the value of that acreage increased. The taxes, however, did not rise proportionally, with the value of the property staying behind by many many multiples.
I’m the moderator of this blog!! Respect my au tor itay!!!
Anonymous SM, you truly are an idiot.
“ Svelaz, you finally recognize that there is no evidence of Trump’s criminal tax fraud. You continuously inferred there was but could never spell it out. I guess you learned something from my six reasons and all the explanations I provided you in the earlier responses.”
Your six reasons where pure hogwash.
Trump is being criminally investigated because there IS probable cause.
Pay attention now. The reason why he’s being investigated is because his own lawyer Michael Cohen testified at a congressional hearing UNDER OATH that Trump was deliberately inflating the value of his properties to get a bank loan and deliberately undervaluing them to pay less on taxes. That is illegal. That’s the alleged crime he’s being investigated for. He’s not being charged nor does ANYBODY claim he has committed a crime.
The AG needed 8 years of Trump’s tax returns in order to investigate COHEN’s claim. When the AG finally got ahold of Trump’s tax returns after a lengthy court battle which Trump lost NEW evidence gave them probable cause to initiate a CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION.
All the evidence so far points out Trump is most likely going to get charged.
“ When the value of a property goes down the amount in taxes is less ”
That is market value, not a person’s OPINION as to the value of his property. It would be best if you learned how not to conflate ideas so that you confuse yourself. It is not intelligent to do so, whether intentionally or due to a lack of understanding.”
Allan, here you’re the one conflating things. You’re so obviously not knowing what you’re talking about.
YOU claim all the time that Trump’s opinion about his properties values ARE market value. Here you’re saying it’s not. This is why nobody takes you seriously, because you’re one massive dumba$$.
“Your six reasons where pure hogwash.”
OK Svelaz, I was wrong. You are unable to learn and you have to remain an idiot. Not a nice thing to say to another but I was being nice explaining things to you. That you think those points are hogwash means you don’t have enough brains to understand anything. There comes a time when just being a dumb leftist isn’t enough but apparently it is enough for you.
Selective Prosecution….aw gosh gee whiz!
How about Bloomberg and his connection to the Chinese Communist Party?
Or…Biden’s family and all manner of questionable acts and business dealings?
How about Clinton and those emails…and the odd murder…hidden records?
Obama and the FISA Court and corruption at the FBI and DOJ?
Then there is the Cuomo Family….Feinstein, Bernie Sanders, BLM, ANTIFA….heck…for that fact the DNC, Democrat Party!
But….oh no…TRUMP…TRUMP….TRUMP….but it is not selective, malicious, or contrived and poltically designed to target a possible 2024 Presidential Candidate or pay back/revenge on a Former President of the opposition…. Right…Got It!
Can we please focus on much more serious crimes like smoking marijuana or driving without a license by black and brown people? I mean come on, this is a rich white guy who probably underpaid taxes by tens or hundreds of millions over the years. Who cares? Get the brown and black people that smoke a common weed please.
This comes on the same day Pelosi and Democrats announce the Comission to look into Jan 6th. She said that we do not need to look into the summer riots. Antifa no just Trump. Please.
Exactly. When two phony impeachments don’t work, try a “Commission” or a criminal investigation (or 10 of them).
Trump will fare much more harshly in the legal system without the backup of an AG squashing investigations and a Senate who was never going to vote to convict on impeachment.
eb 19
January 6th was an INSURRECTION. It was an attempt by citizens to violently storm the Capital to stop the counting of electoral votes which would confirm that Biden, and not the mob’s preferred candidate, Trump, won the election. Don’t you think a violent attempt to overthrow our government might be worthy of an investigation? Lumping the insurrection it in with other violent riots, which had nothing to do with trying to overthrow a government, is to diminish the truly historic and dangerous nature of the January 6th insurrection.
Before you form your opinion, get all the facts and get all the facts straight.
So, I guess the pattern whereby the current administration overlooks the crimes of the previous administration is now broken? Does that mean the Clintons can finally be brought to justice? And then there’s Obama and those fake FISA warrants. Can we still get GW for lying us into wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? So many presidential crimes, so little time.
You know its bogus when the publicly announce it. And you know selective prosecution based on political calculus to keep Trump off the ballot in 2024 will be a defense with this announcement and her previous politically motivated statements being exhibit A. Good move, Letitia handing them a defense and all!
Trump knows their SINS!
Even if Trump were convicted of a felony and sitting in a jail cell, he could still run for President of the United States. Felons can run (and win) federal office.
The fact that the Trumps almost certainly have been breaking the law for years isn’t exactly news. I think it is unfortunate that authorities waited so long, and for Trump to become more famous, before they did anything. It’s not that I think the Trumps and others like him should get a pass. We need a lot more white collar prosecutions, not less.
“The fact that the Trumps almost certainly have been breaking the law for years isn’t exactly news.”
Provide the facts.
“We need a lot more white collar prosecutions, not less.”
Start with the Biden’s.
Trump Trump Moe bump…
Banana fanna go dump.
Trump!
More smoke with no fire from the traitors of humanity. PRESIDENT Trump has been relentlessly attacked, and NEVER has anything stuck. If they had anything they could use against him, he’d be done. But they haven’t, and he won’t be.
It sure pours sunlight on how terrified they are of this remarkable man. They want to “end him by any means necessary”, before he ends them all. Things aren’t looking good for these vile people and their lapdogs, as proven by this escalation of desperation.
#GreatestPOTUSinHistory
#WeThePeopleWillProtectOurPresident
If they had cold hard evidence against Trump they would put their motion into action
But rather they continue on with nothing more than verbal threats
I was under the impression they had already gone through everything Trump & came up empty
When does it become harassment?
Is this good for the country? I doubt it. We should take the example of Nixon after resignation.
The Lefties resemble Captain Ahab; doubt that they will ever quit.
But it looks unfair. Look at how many of us cheered for Moby Dick.
And the worm often turns; Republicans may come back in a vengeful mood, with the path of malicious prosecution clearly lit.
Monument, are the investigations illegal? What law prevents them from investigating potential tax fraud?
Republicans clearly have no problem investigating potential violations. Just look at the current “audit” being done in Arizona.
It’s not about the country. It’s about the law and those who may be breaking it. The investigation on Trump’s taxes was started because of his lawyer’s claim, under oath, that Trump was engaging falsely inflating the value of his properties in order to get bank loans. That’s fraud and the government has a duty to investigate if the allegation is true.
Now that it is a criminal investigation only means that they have enough evidence from his tax returns to delve deeper into what Trump has been doing. He could have been doing this for years and fraud is fraud. Ultimately if it is proven in court that Trump committed fraud he will be indicted.
” that Trump was engaging falsely inflating the value of his properties in order to get bank loans.”
If you say you want a loan on your house for $1million because you value it at $2million despite it being worth barely $35 thousand, do you believe you committed a crime?
One determines property values based on the values set by the buyer and seller.
I have placed significant money in a downpayment for a property that I lose if the property is not purchased within a set period (days to years). I have then worked to change zoning rules governing the property. If successful, interested parties will immediately offer double or more. What value should exist on the tax form?
SM
Anonymous SM,
You really don’t understand how property values work.
“ If you say you want a loan on your house for $1million because you value it at $2million despite it being worth barely $35 thousand, do you believe you committed a crime?”
It IS a crime because you’re lying on a loan application. That itself is fraud which is a prosecutable offense.
When you KNOW your property is not worth $2 million and sign a document that clearly states that everything you put on the application is true and correct it is fraud.
When you claim the property is worth $ 2 million on tax documents you gave to the bank as part of the loan application and later claim on another set that the property is only worth $35,000 so you don’t pay taxes on $ 2 million is fraud.
“ One determines property values based on the values set by the buyer and seller.”
Nope. Property values are determined by the market. Not the buyer and seller. The buyer determines what he thinks the value is. That doesn’t change what the actual value is according to the market.
It what Trump is doing is legal I could inflate the value of my home by $200,000 to get a loan for $100,000, but state on my property tax bill that my property is only worth $5,000 so I only need to pay taxes on $5,000 not $200,000.
The bank checks properly values on areas where the property is located in order to determine if the loan amount is justified. Obviously they will know you inflated the value to take out a loan on property worth far less. No bank would give you money for that property.
“It IS a crime because you’re lying on a loan application. That itself is fraud which is a prosecutable offense. “
Wrong. Not fraud or anything close. That is his opinion.
“When you claim the property is worth $ 2 million on tax documents you gave to the bank as part of the loan application and later claim on another set that the property is only worth $35,000 so you don’t pay taxes on $ 2 million is fraud.”
Wrong.
>>”“ One determines property values based on the values set by the buyer and seller.”
>Nope. Property values are determined by the market.”
The buyer and the seller are the marketplace. Your ignorance is astounding.
“It what Trump is doing is legal I could inflate the value of my home by $200,000 to get a loan for $100,000,”
The bank doesn’t (isn’t supposed to) use your estimates of value to determine the loan. You finally got to that point in your last paragraph. Most of what you say is wrong and meaningless.
When Trump pays taxes on Trump Tower, it doesn’t make a difference how much he values it at. The taxes are determined by the property appraiser’s office.
SM
Loan applications are submitted under oath, under the penalties for perjury. This is because banks are regulated in the U.S. and there is the FDIC to protect the deposits of customers, whose money is lent to borrowers. If the loan goes south, the bank, its shareholders and their customers suffer a loss, which could result in lower returns on CDs and savings accounts and higher loan interest rates. That would cause the bank not to be competitive in attracting depositors and making loans. If the bank goes under, we, the taxpayers make good on deposits up to a certain limit. This isn’t a game and “values” for purposes of obtaining a loan are not based on the subjective opinion of the buyer or the seller. Appraisers have gone to prison for intentionally inflating appraisals in order to qualify a borrower for a larger loan. One such appraiser had an office next to mine. One day, the FBI came to my office and inquired as to his whereabouts. Ironically, he was working for the government, appraising flood-damaged homes that had government-backed loans.
After the multiple bankruptcies, Trump could no longer borrow money from any US bank, which is why he looked to Russians for help. This was after he went through several “partnerships” because he couldn’t borrow in just his own name. Of course, all of this happened after his father died, so there wasn’t anyone to bail him out any more. If Trump was the massively-successful businessman he pretends to be, he wouldn’t have so many failures on his resume.
“Loan applications are submitted under oath, under the penalties for perjury. “
Without reading beyond this sentence, if a bank asks for the value of your property they are asking for your opinion. You are not an appraiser. What is it you don’t understand. Do you not realize that the banks are supposed to look into the properties they are loaning to? In part that is what happened during the financial meltdown. People were flipping houses and values were inflated. The bank is the guilty party if you want to look for one.
Have you ever filled out a loan application in which you had to state the value of assets and possible collateral? Banks don’t rely on opinions as to things that can be appraised, but they do rely on the statements by borrowers as to stocks and other assets. Trump cooked the books, according to his former lawyer. In re the financial meltdown, there were conspiracies between realtors, lenders and appraisers to over-value properties so as to qualify for a higher loan. Everybody got rich until the foreseeable foreclosures started happening. Not all the lenders were banks in the case of the financial meltdown.
It’s not about the law, it’s about getting Trump because to them he’s a reprobate who dared tried to change the system and drain the swamp … they’ve been trying for over four years, they’s failed at every turn, they will fail yet again….
Here we go again. Trump has never had tax problems in decades, but suddenly, he does? TDS is a terrible thing. I hope this prosecutor can get help before he makes more of a fool of himself.