Sidney Powell, a former attorney for President Donald Trump, is back in the news with a prediction that Donald Trump could be”reinstated” as president. It is a mystery to me how Powell believes that Trump could be “resinstated” but the Constitution is clear: Joe Biden is our president and will remain so absent his death, incapacity, or his removal through impeachment.
Powell made her statement at a conference in Dallas that has been described as a QAnon gathering. She stated that Trump “can simply be reinstated.” She explained “A new inauguration date is set, and Biden is told to move out of the White House, and President Trump should be moved back in. I’m sure there’s not going to be credit for time lost, unfortunately, because the Constitution itself sets the date for inauguration, but he should definitely get the remainder of his term and make the best of it.”
The first stumbling block is that we already have a president. Biden would be to be impeached and convicted for his removal. In such a case, Vice President Kamala Harris would be president. Even if she were impeachment and removed, her vice president would succeed to the office. The only other process would be the 25th Amendment for a disability or incapacity.
A Yahoo News/YouGov poll last week found that 64 percent of Republicans believe that the 2020 election was “rigged and stolen from Trump.” However, even if such evidence were found, it would not make this constitutional cat walk backwards. It is not enough for a court to determine that a given state election was incorrectly called. In Florida, Democrats claimed that later tallies showed that Al Gore likely won that state. It would not matter however. George Bush was already sworn in as president.
As for the inauguration day, that is set by the the 20th Amendment for January 20th. If a vacancies occurred, the vice president is simply sworn in as was the case with Lyndon Johnson after the assassination of John F. Kennedy.
Young writes:
“Captain Bligh and his men made an incredible journey across the open sea and he was restored to command of a ship. See Nordhoff, “Men Against the Sea”. I like that analogy for President Trump. Difficult journey ending in restoration to the Oval Office. Thank you for that notion.”
You are messing with me, right? You’re joking! Please don’t tell me you actually believe what Sidney Powell said that Trump can be reinstated to the Oval Office. Didn’t you read what Turley wrote? I was being facetious. I hope you were too.
Nobody thought Bligh would make it either. Thought you would get the point.
Perhaps, but Fletcher Christian did provision the boat with a modicum of food and water to give them a fighting chance. Otherwise, the mutineers could have just keelhauled the lot.
I give Trump 2 chances of being re-elected: slim and fat. Bligh had better odds!
Question: If, despite all of the opposition, it turns out audits show Biden did not win enough electoral votes, then what happens?
What if the audits show Trump won enough electoral votes to win. Then what?
Should those events occur then I suspect it is no longer an issue for the judiciary. They had their chance and ran. But what?
Good god, you are serious! I would suggest that you read again Turley’s legal analysis. Your answer can be found therein. You know, as much as some vilify me for pointing out Turley’s conflict of interests and his hypocrisy, I don’t question his legal opinions. I don’t pretend to remember all my law school education nor am I inclined to pull an all-nighter to refresh my memory now. Given his voluminous blog output and his concomitant professorial responsibilities, it would not surprise me if Turley had a clerk or two to draft his articles on which he could put his finishing touches not unlike an appeals judge. I don’t say that to disparage him in the least. I simply marvel at his ability to author 2 to 3 lengthy articles every day replete with facts and often as not legal citations.
Turley’s legal opinion on this issue was a bowl of watered soup. Not much substance
In any event when you are outside of law a legal opinion doesn’t carry much weight. Is there a Constitutional provision or even a statute that governs what is to be done if a person gains the presidency by fraud? If an immigrant becomes a citizen by fraud he can lose his citizenship. That suggests things gained by fraud can be taken away. There are many other examples. Is the presidency to be the only thing that can be retained when stolen by fraud?
I don’t understand your reading of his opinion. He specified that there were only 2 ways to forcibly remove Biden: impeachment and the 25th Amendment. If either were to happen, then there is a mandated line of succession. There is no possibility of Trump being reinstated. Where Turley wants to hedge his bets, he will state there are good faith arguments on both sides, but there are none in this situation which is precisely the reason Turley stated that it was a mystery to him that Powell could state otherwise.
I think he is being too kind to Powell. Either she has lost a few screws or she is fund-raising not unlike Trump when he begged his believers to contribute to his fraudulent campaign to uncover widespread election fraud.
He specified that there were only 2 ways to forcibly remove Biden: impeachment and the 25th Amendment
***
And that is true when removing a legally elected president. Neither was designed to address the situation when the office was gained by criminal acts and his ‘election’ was void from the beginning. It is similar to the difference between a divorce and an annulment.
You can’t wait 3+ years for Trump to run again? Assuming he is not prosecuted in the meantime. Will you accept my challenge and declare that you will accept a jury’s guilty verdict? Or is your mind closed to any prosecution upon any grounds regardless of the evidence? Trump has stated that his is the greatest witch-hunt in the history of mankind. Do you believe him? For my part, I will accept a not guilty plea without any reservation, for I believe in our criminal justice system. Do you?
it’s.: “for I believe in our criminal justice system. Do you?”
***
No. Not after Chauvin. Not after FISA fraud. Not after two prison guards got deferred sentences for falling asleep on the job and falsifying government reports, and much more. It is a disgrace.
So Trump was correct when he said, “”I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters.”
For Trumpists, Trump IS above the law. ANY prosecution is illegitimate, but if Hunter Biden is prosecuted and convicted, you would throw away the key!
I guessed you hadn’t had much experience with ratiocination. How does your peculiar conclusion derive from the earlier exchange.?. It seems untethered. I am going to guess that you are quite young. No insult. I wish I were; but clearly there are disadvantages.
You said that you did not believe in our criminal justice system. So I naturally came to the conclusion that you would not respect a jury’s verdict against Trump. If I have misjudged you, I sincerely apologize. Now, will you accept a guilty verdict for Trump after all his appeals have been exhausted? Will you trust Turley’s opinion that his trial was not a witch-hunt as Trump will claim?” For my part, I will not question the merits of a not guilty verdict. With all due respect, I would like to know where you stand as a matter of principle.
Certainly I no longer have the slightest belief in our justice system Total worthless fraud.
If a jury found Trump guilty of something based on proper evidence, FINE. Otherwise, I would have no respect for it. The point is that the DOJ and FBI are now conspiracies against justice
Sometimes things that are taken illegally cannot be returned. If someone is murdered, nothing will return the person’s life. I bet that there are lots of historic examples of things having been stolen by fraud where the statute of limitations expires and there is no legal recourse, so the answer to your question is “no.”
“Sometimes things that are taken illegally cannot be returned. If someone is murdered, nothing will return the person’s life. “
The depth of your vision is very short Anonymous the Stupid.
If a person kills another and takes $1M, he doesn’t get to keep the $1M. A life cannot be resurrected so we send such persons to jail or the electric chair.
S. Meyer,
I think in some cases were are engaging with high schoolers. Seems like.
I may well be older than you. I’m certainly better educated (based on what you’ve said about your education, what I know about my own, and the content of our comments).
Neither of you have responded to the facts of what I said: if someone is murdered, nothing can return the person’s life. If the statute of limitations for fraud has expired, even money won’t be returned. Can you deal with these facts, or do you have nothing but insult?
Aged without maturing. Too bad. And too common these days.
You still haven’t been able to bring yourself to deal with the facts I introduced. That reflects on you, not me.
“You still haven’t been able to bring yourself to deal with the facts I introduced. That reflects on you, not me.”
Anonymous the Stupid, you brought no facts to deal with. Virtually everything you said was dealt with except for those ambiguous statements meant as a defense against anyone more intelligent than you.
“I’m certainly better educated (based on what you’ve said about your education, what I know about my own, and the content of our comments).”
Highly doubtful. You have been partially schooled but you are not educated. Your major problem is that though you can repeat, you cannot think.
“Neither of you have responded to the facts of what I said: if someone is murdered, nothing can return the person’s life. “
If a person kills another and takes $1M, he doesn’t get to keep the $1M. A life cannot be resurrected so we send such persons to jail or the electric chair. Justice seldom makes the victim whole.
Another thought. What if fraud electing Biden is discovered to have been perpetrated by hostile nations, Russia or China? Do we sit still while our enemies choose our president?
If Biden conspired with a foreign power to become elected, we impeach him. What’s the problem?
I know it seems unfair that Trump would not be re-instated under such a scenario, but the Constitution does not provide such a remedy.
The Congress ought to pass a law making it illegal to solicit foreign intelligence upon one’s opponent as did the Clinton campaign and similarly to prohibit colluding with a foreign government intelligence agent as did Manafort by handing over sensitive election data to Kilimnik.
They only hear what they want to hear. 😞
As someone who has worked for JT, I can tell you he uses fellows/clerks/assistants on cases and projects, but his writing here and for op-eds like he’s linking to is all him.
“. . . it turns out audits show Biden did not win enough electoral votes, then what happens?”
A Federal court ordering a new election in the affected districts/states — just as a Federal court argued in Donohue v. Board of Elections of State of NY, 435 F. Supp. 957 (E.D.N.Y. 1976):
“The fact that a national election might require judicial intervention, concomitantly implicating the interests of the entire nation, if anything, militates in favor of interpreting the equity jurisdiction of the federal courts to include challenges to Presidential elections.”
We are getting many hypotheticals from Ball-Less Jeff that ends with Ball-less Jeff pushing others to answer his question, what if Trump is guilty.
I’m going to give my unwanted answer. If Trump is found guilty and his appeals lead to the same verdict, he is guilty. That is the nature of our system of justice. Of course based on some serious legal aberrations there is more to the story than just that, but guilt is guilt.
What if it is found that the election was fraudulent and Biden didn’t get the electoral votes needed to win. Will Ball-Less Jeff accept a peaceful turnover of government from Biden to Trump?
I am not saying that I expect anything of that to happen. I am only following the path set by Ball-Less Jeff and his interests in hypothetical demanding answers and similarly treating other posters like he treats Professor Turley.
Ball-Less Jeff hedges his bets and make conflicting statements.
He has already changed the question to where impeachment might be the answer. However, impeachment is not the answer if Biden had no part in fraud. If the votes went to Trump would he Biden Step down. Would Ball-Less Jeff call for Biden to turn over the government To Trump. I am waiting to hear his answer to that question.
“Sidney Powell, a former attorney for President Donald Trump, is back in the news with a prediction that Donald Trump could be”reinstated” as president.”
Trump apparently believes Powell. What an idiot.
“Two days ago, the New York Times’s Maggie Haberman reported that Donald Trump “has been telling a number of people he’s in contact with that he expects he will get reinstated by August.” In response, many figures on the right inserted their fingers into their ears and started screaming about fake news. Instead, they should have listened — because Haberman’s reporting was correct. I can attest, from speaking to an array of different sources, that Donald Trump does indeed believe quite genuinely that he — along with former senators David Perdue and Martha McSally — will be “reinstated” to office this summer …”
nationalreview.com/2021/06/maggie-haberman-is-right
If someone took the Oval Office by force could they keep it? No. How different is it when it is taken by conspiracy and fraud?
You keep posting conditionals where the condition is false.
Clearly you have never taken a strong course in science, law or philosophy.
Clearly you have an active imagination.
Maybe you weren’t paying attention when the instructor discussed how the verb tense can affect whether the condition is false vs. unknown.
Show me how the verb tense determines whether a condition was true or false beginning a sentence with ‘if’.
Are you talking about Trump’s conspiracy with Russian hackers who lied about Hillary Clinton on social media, using sensitive insider polling data about where to target such lies so that they could sway voters in districts whose support for her was soft, and which could affect the Electoral College? That’s the only PROVEN fraud and wrongful conduct here. Biden’s win was CERTIFIED by every state, after multiple recounts, re-recounts, signature matches and 60+ failed court challenges. That’s still not enough for you Trumpsters.
Trump is and has always been a crook, liar, fraud and personal failure. He has no leadership skills, and that was proven by his disastrous fake “presidency”. Americans never wanted him to begin with and never approved of him, but yet you Trumpsters he won reelection believe because your exalted leader says Americans really did love him and voted for him in a landslide, despite the polls. That’s not a mistake of fact–that is delusional. Sidney Powell is either a criminal or is in desperate need of psychiatric help–maybe both. Mike Lindell has a history of crack cocaine and heroin addiction, so he has an addictive personality and obvious psychiatric issues that caused him to turn to drugs to ease whatever emotional suffering he was going through. He may have overcome the physical addiction, but people who have been addicted to drugs, alcohol or other substances often replace one addiction with another, like gambling, sex, pornography or an obsession of one kind or another, like an obsessive attraction to someone who doesn’t return their interest. In Lindell’s case, it is an obsession with the false belief that Trump really won. There’s no proof, but facts can’t shake his obsession, because it’s not driven by facts–it’s driven by his addictive personality. This obsession is just as toxic as his addiction to drugs, and will hurt him in the long-run, too. Lindell will likely end up losing his business over Trump. He is in serious need of help.Trump could help him by admitting that he really lost. He owes that to Lindell. Don’t hold your breath.
But, what I still don’t understand is the passionate defense of Trump and firmly-rooted belief by his disciples that the election was stolen, based on absolutely NO evidence, and despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. Please explain it to me. Why don’t facts matter, and why do you believe Trump, who is a chronic, habitual liar? Is it just an advanced case of wishful thinking? Don’t you realize that the majority of Americans have always found Trump to be odious, arrogant, unqualified, flashy and not presidential material, and that’s why most of us didn’t vote for him in 2016 or 2020?
Does it occur to you how dangerous it is that so many people are willing to believe a proven liar and are also willing to accept the false claim that an election was stolen, despite nothing but the claims of a delusional liar, and despite the fact that each and every Secretary of State, including Republican ones, certified the results? You don’t believe the pre-election polls, either, that predicted his loss. What about 4 years of less than 50% approval ratings? All lies? Could any facts sway you? Explain it to me because I don’t understand.
The Russia collusion “investigation” was a hoax, a lie, a fraud. What do you not understand?
The Mueller investigation was based on EVIDENCE: documents, depositions, sworn testimony, valid proof. Why don’t you understand this? Is it because Hannity tells you it was a hoax? Hillary was predicted to win, and she DID win the popular vote. Russian hackers DID obtain information from Trump’s campaign on where to target lies about her in districts that could sway the Electoral College, and that DID happen. It was proven by valid evidence. Do you really believe that Hillary Clinton trafficks in children and drinks their blood?
You are aware, aren’t you, that you are lied to by the media that intentionally and knowingly spreads disinformation and misinformation to benefit one political party?
Here’s a short tally of just some of the fake news spread to you by CNN and MSNBC:
Russia hoax
Kavanaugh is a rapist
Smolett was assaulted
Very fine people on both sides
Covington kids
Drinking bleach
Feeding koi fish edited video
Natacha dahlink, don’t waste your time on Trumpers.
As they say in Texas: “You buy ’em books and buy ’em books and they just chew on the covers.”
The Waco Kid knows who the Trumpers are: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHJbSvidohg
Benjamin,
Why don’t you get some popcorn and go back to watching your favorite videos on the Top Ten Kitten Videos We Can’t Stop Watching website, hmmm?
Actually I’m sitting at M______ K_____ listening to Seinfeld talk about riding his bike along the beach at the Hamptons, and going to Wimbledown. He’s with his buddy Spike who wrote the Soup Nazi episode of Seinfeld.
Way more entertaining.
You on the other hand should try to live a decent life and maybe you will come back reincarnated as someone with a brain and integrity.
I’m Jerry’s assistant and also a political junkie. I see you there at the Malibu Kitchen all the time. You have perfect hair, btw.
The actual “Big Lie” is pretending that the massive statistical anomalies from the 2020 vote don’t exist.
What “statistical anomalies”? Where did you hear about this? I want to know.
At what point does it become clear there is voter fraud going on and that it’s going on right now in Arizona? That Trump began by trying to force the Ukrainians to put out manufactured dirt on Biden and that ever since the election Republican legislatures have been paving the way for enormous fraud in ’22 and ’24? It’s right out in the open…
But no, look for under that chair over there!!!
eb
Damn you are good Natacha.
To quote Rooster Cogburn from the original True Grit: “She reminds me of me.”
As correct about all of this as you are, don’t waste your breath.
It’s pearls before swine.
Mike Lindell is a perfect example of the kind of morally and ethically flawed person who follows Trump.
He appeals to the tired, the poor, the sad, the lost and the not so bright.
And there is a lot of that in America these days, apparently.
Can I be your Boris?
“Can I be your Boris?”
Hey Beta Ben,
Watch this —->
So stop looking in the mirror and that won’t happen.
Damn you are good, Ben.
Sometimes it’s fun to write in ambiguous sarcasm.
I would have a battle of wits with you, but I can’t fight an unarmed person.
So stop looking in the mirror.
Yeah don’t f#$ with me.
I am quicker-witted than all y’all.
And I’m also on the right side of this whole Trump/Biden thing.
Don’t f#$ with me?
That ain’t ‘quicker-witted’ hun.
Ssssssh Im eavesdropping Seinfeld talking about The Hamptons to his buddy Spike, and novelizing Bubblehead.
Atta boy, that’s the Ben we all like to f#$ with around here. Keep up the good work.
“Name-dropping is used to position oneself within a social hierarchy. It is often used to create a sense of superiority by raising one’s status. By implying (or directly asserting) a connection to people of high status, the name-dropper hopes to raise their own social status to a level closer to that of those whose names they have dropped, and thus elevate themselves above, or into, present company.”
Do you like moose and squirrel?
Maggie Haberman is a biases liar and leaker. No reason to believe her. New York Times a worthless rag.
Uh oh, the New York Times is meant for those who believe in truth, justice and the American way and have an IQ over 120.
You might want to cancel your prescription.
If it is only for people with an IQ over 120 you should cancel your ‘prescription’ too . The word is ‘subscription’..
I know, I was making fun of Jackie, the receptionist when I worked at SURFER Magazine.
She used to say “prescription” instead of “subscription” and we would make fun of her.
She also gave me one of my noms de plums.
One time she said a guy was a real “Mason Thorpe.”
I said “What? A Mason Thorpe? Who’s Mason Thorpe?”
She said, “You know a miso-gin-ist.”
I said “Misanthrope.”
She said, “Yeah, that’s what I said, Mason Thorpe.”
So now I write some things under Mason Thorpe.
Have you ever tried using Denny Dimwit as a nom de plume? He used to be a very popular character in the comic strips.
I use Mason Thorpe or Stone Parker.
Sometimes it’s fun to write in a persona.
The problem is that if Biden took office by what amounts to a coup then we are already outside the bounds of the Constitution and many probably are not disposed to wait on mincing and parsing by a Court that has already shown cowardly on this issue.
Reposted.
Stop talking macho and bring it, baby! The jails are already filled with insurrectionists, but we’ll make room for more.
LOL Jeff………..I laugh out loud when I hear you “progressives” use your favorite new word: ” Insurrectionist”.
You all sound so proud of your new find……and it has so many syllables! LOL
Unfortunately, the term doesn’t apply to your conservative nemeses, but then neither does the term racist, which you hurl liberally.
Hello Cindy,
Glad to make your acquaintance. I trust we are not going to get off on the wrong foot. If you don’t like “insurrectionists,” I’ll take it back. Would you prefer “rioters”? If that is too rough, how about “Trumpists?” Does that work? It’s a minor point, but I’m willing to accommodate you.
However, I resent your accusing me of calling people racists. I do not do so. Trumpists are not racists. I had this same discussion with Prairie Rose in which I stated that I may call certain statements “racist,” but never an individual. I believe that genuine racists will self-identify as they have no reservations in expressing their racism openly. I see no advantage of accusing a person of being a racist when they may not be. To do so will serve only to enrage the person and to polarize the debate. Prairie Rose can back me up on this if she happens to read this.
I’ll thank you in advance for your apology.
“I’ll thank you in advance for your apology.”
Cindy , I see you have met Ball-Less Jeff. Just picture listening to him talk in his high pitched voice.
Anonymous………I’m sure he is excitedly awaiting the day that he’s old enough to wear long pants…😉
“IF Biden took office by what amounts to a coup THEN” you should present evidence of it.
IF you cannot present evidence, THEN we do not have any reason to treat it as true.
You are Anonymous and nobody cares what nobody in particular treats as true.
In any event you suffer from the same disability as Natch and BM. You read past my ‘if’ and did not recognize a hypothetical If I could prove anything to you I wouldn’t bother.
LOL that you bizarrely believe that “You read past my ‘if’ and did not recognize a hypothetical.” I literally quoted and capitalized your IF and THEN to highlight that it was a hypothetical.
“If I could prove anything to you …”
But you can’t. Once again, you post a conditional claim with a false condition.
Can you prove the ‘condition’ is false?
In any event a hypothetical is not posited as either true or false. It is a way of war gaming many different things to try to see different potential outcomes. When you discover a desired outcome then you may try to make the conditionals actual to control events. You are severely limiting yourself if you can’t or won’t learn to think that way.
If you are dogmatic then even good gaming won’t help. The Japanese wargamed their attack on Midway and one team slipped in unexpected conditions and the Japanese lost that game. They thought that that could not be. Of course they would win. The untenable, unproven condition turned out to be true in actual combat and the Japanese lost 4 carriers and the war turned around on them.
It is a little disturbing that so many posting here lack such flexibility in thinking. I suppose it is down to our failing schools.
Mespo knows what I am talking about. Any practicing lawyer likely does.
The US stopped following the Constitution ages ago … why should it be followed in this case?
Ladbrokes has the odds of Joe Biden finishing his first term at 1/2 … removeal by death, impeachment or 25th Amendment at 13/8 … they don’t offer wagers on Trump reinstatement, though.
Impeachment for what? Showing vision and leadership?
Go stick your head back in the sand.
Biden is busy cleaning up the mess left behind by Hurricane Donald, just as Obama had to clean up after Bush43.
Republicans screw it up. Democrats clean it up.
Biden is fine although I hope they are looking toward 2028 and grooming an Obama-class rockstar to take over.
I don’t think it’s Kamala – yet.
Impeachment. Right.
You’d think the two Trump impeachments ably demonstrated a President can be impeached for anything or even nothing.
If you alter a losing Lotto ticket to make it look like a winner and then collect $100 million, do you get to keep the money when the fraud is discovered?
If you steal an election with thousands of phony ballots do you get to keep the office when the fraud is discovered?
“Thousands of phony ballots” when he won the election by 7,000,000+ votes?
Doh!
Like Natch you seem incapable of addressing a hypothetical. Notice the IF in my statement.
There is no If.
If off.
BM: “There is no If.:
***
Young: “IF you alter a losing Lotto ….”
***
Look again. Your difficulty finding one two-letter word at the beginning of the single sentence explains a lot. Natch has the same disability.
If off.
BM “If off”
***
And that’s another disability; some sort of Tourette’s I suppose..
I have no truck with Trump supporters.
So truck off.
Trump off.
Whatever.
Its people like you what supported the Nazis.
It’s people like you what cause unrest.
Now you are using Ebonics grammar? That explains a lot too.
That’s actually Monty Python language.
Monty Python? Next it will be The Three Stooges. I see from whence comes your thinking. . Rap next?
Nor does he understand a presidential election and the role of the electoral college. The issue is *not* 7 million votes. The issue is a relative handful of votes in the six, key swing districts. *If* enough of those are proven fraudulent, then the electoral college flips, and along with it, the presidency.
Re: Your “if”
I think you hit a nerve. And you have the patience of a saint.
Your “ifs” are everywhere: If I’m constantly late for work . . . If I exercise regularly . . . If we save our money . . . And a half-wit child understands them: If I clean my room . . .
It’s not that they don’t understand what you’re saying. It’s that they don’t want to hear it. And they attack you (with deflections and pedantry) for forcing them to stick their fingers in their ears.
“The issue is *not* 7 million votes. The issue is a relative handful of votes in the six, key swing districts. *If* enough of those are proven fraudulent, then the electoral college flips,”
Moreover, those are the places most likely to be where the fraud occurred if it occurred. So why is the left fighting so hard to prevent any audit of the election? Audits should be part of election processes.
Somebody once asked the infamous bank robber, Willie Sutton, why he robs banks. His response: “Because that’s where the money is.” (Possibly apocryphal.)
Ditto for election fraud: Why look at Philly, et al.? Because that’s where the election fraud occurs.
No one is fighting to stop any audits.
“The left” knows the election was for real and regardless of the Electoral College, that margin of 7 million let Trump know how much America wanted his sorry ass out of office and back at Mar A Lago where he can cheat at golf and cheat on his wife all he wants.
Trump lost, fair and square.
If only his idiot followers would commit mass seppuku, the average IQ of America would jump 30 points.
Ben, you are a blustering ignorant fool who consistently provides BS to the blog and cannot offer a defense for what he says.
The last encounter we had involved you claim that Obama reduced unemployment far better than Trump. I provided you with the monthly head-to-head comparison between Obama’s 10 months in his last year and Trump’s 10 months in his first year. The numbers proved Trump reduced unemployment almost 4X faster than Obama. You ran away but repeated your argument elsewhere anyway. After that, how can anyone trust you? Here are the statistics.
The first ten months of Obama’s administration vs. Trump led to a drop in unemployment (U 6) under Trump almost 4 times as fast as under Obama.
Obama U6 2016
Jan: 9.9 Oct: 9.5
Trump U6 2017
Jan: 9.4 Oct: 7.9
Obama fell 0.4
Trump fell 1.5
Citation: http://portalseven.com/employment/unemployment_rate_u6.jsp
Ben is full of cr-p. He always has been and always will be.
Unemployment went from 4% when Trump took office, to 19+% at the worst.
Herbert Hoover is rolling in his grave.
That’s the only statistic I need to know.
You’re an idiot who supports Trump.
If only you and your ilk had committed ritual seppuku when Trump lost, we’d all be better off.
No American should be that dumb.
“No American should be that dumb.”
You are that dumb.
You don’t know how to compare two different things. I didn’t think you were that dumb. How do you explain the head-to-head comparison I provided. Virtually everyone understands what your foolish remark is based on, and only a fool would agree with your statement.
And again, Obama inherited an ascending unemployment rate as he inherited an economy devastated by the incompetence of Bush43.
Remember the Great Recession? It wasn’t so great.
Obama fixed it.
Unemployment peaked at 9% under Obama and then he and his team fixed things and unemployment dropped throughout the rest of the Obama administration.
It had dropped to 4% when Trump took over, and it continued to descend – a postitive resonation from the Obama administration.
And then true to form, that unemployment rate shot to 19%+ under Trump.
He destroyed all the good work laid down by Obama.
That’s over your head but it doesn’t matter.
Only an idiot pursues a false story he knows he can’t prove. At the same site is all the data from the Obama and Trump months, including the months Covid entered the picture and changed the dynamics for the entire world.
This is Ben making a foolish statement that shows him to be an idiot and a braggart.
If brains were dynamite you couldn’t blow your nose.
Trump wrecked everything, which is why he is no longer president.
America needed leadership and elected a fraud who couldn’t con his way out of a pandemic.
Ben, II provide,
the numbers
the mathematics
the conclusion Trump in those months reduced unemployment almost 4 times as fast as Obama
and the citation of all the data for all recent presidents.
You refuse to deal with the facts. You prefer bluster and bragadacio to anything as long as it doesn’t require intelligence. You prefer to pollute the blog.
Maybe start here…
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2020/02/07/obamas-last-three-years-of-job-growth-all-beat-trumps-best-year/?sh=43dd506d6ba6
eb
Bug, you don’t understand math and how growth rates work. Stig to your generalities, insults and checking for commas.
# of jobs non farm year to year:
Obama’s recovery was very slow. It took till 2015 to exceed what it was in 2007 and 2008. That is lousy performance
2015 #jobs 138.4
2016 141.0
2017 143.3
2018 145.4
2019 147.8
2020 150.0
% growth has to fall as jobs are filled unless the country’s economy expands. That is what Trump did.
Trying to find a source that confirms what you want isn’t knowledge. In fact it demonstrates the opposite. See my first sentence.
then go here…
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-obama-trump-numbers-tiktok/fact-check-video-comparing-trump-and-obama-unemployment-rates-and-job-growth-is-misleading-idUSKBN28D34P
The spin check machines provide answers based on which answer you are looking for. What they don’t do is deal with the real numbers. What we constantly hear from the left are contrived numbers. They can never get their heads on straight when they have to look at real numbers.
The first ten months of Obama’s administration vs. Trump led to a drop in unemployment (U 6) under Trump almost 4 times as fast as under Obama.
Obama U6 2016
Jan: 9.9 Oct: 9.5
Trump U6 2017
Jan: 9.4 Oct: 7.9
Obama fell 0.4
Trump fell 1.5
Citation: http://portalseven.com/employment/unemployment_rate_u6.jsp
Cool. I trust Portal Seven over Forbes and Reuters any day. Thanks for setting me straight, Allan.
eb
Portal Seven gets the numbers from the government. Go to the government’s site and verify for yourself. Editorials provide opinion not fact. You really are a sad case when it comes to numbers and facts.
Probably best to review the comparative line charts of the presidencies of Obama vs. Trump then on that site. You’ll see that unemployment came down continuously under Obama, picking up momentum in the last years of his 2nd term. Trump inherited the trend which continued downward, but began to slow in momentum until it just blew up with Covid. But I read graphs all day so I’m used to thiis kind of thing…, I’m pretty sure you can’t because it requires being able to read rates of momentum.
eb
Thank you.
These people give some glimpse into the mentality of the typical Trump supporter, which makes a rational person damned glad that Trump is out of office.
“But I read graphs all day so I’m used to thiis kind of thing”
Bug, you may read graphs all day, but that doesn’t mean you understand them or interpret the charts based on the variables.
I provided you with the raw numbers produced by the government. They are all standard numbers. You could even have drawn a graph from them, but you probably don’t know-how. You keep defaulting to charts that have more than one variable, destroying any understanding of what happened.
Keep with your generalities. You do not understand the math.
When Trump took office unemployment had been rapidly descending from the Obama administration, from 10% down to 4.7%.
Within three years of Trump, unemployment had climbed from 4.7% to 19+%.
Those numbers made Herbert Hoover want to run home and slap his grandma.
Those are the only numbers you need to know.
Republicans screw it up. Democrats clean it up.
Allan: I can see when I pointed out that you speak entirely in generality and platitude that it stung because you’ve taken a page from your hero’s book and then started to accuse me of it…, while still speaking in generality on your end. That’s the tactic trump has used all along, get accused of something, turn it aound and accuse everyone else of it….
And the fact you post information and don’t understand what it says is standard fare for you. In your case here you’ve posted an informational source that points out, with the bare minimum of digging into the numbers, that Trump inherited a trend of unemployment numbers going down at a particular momentum (since clearly you don’t understand what momentum charting is, google any basic investment technical indicator site to get background information on how this particular charting method works), and then watched the momentum of that trend continue down under his early term, while the trend slowed its momentum. This is, of course, what happens as a by product of trickle on economics — which is a glorified profit taking strategy writ large. The momentum of uptrends get hit with trickle on policy, they continue up for awhile, they range for some time after that, then the economy moves into a downturn because its momentum has been drained by taking a substantial part of what’s moving the economy and giving it to the super rich via tax breaks. That’s exactly what was beginning to happen to Trump even before Covid, and that explains why he was pathologically leaning on the Fed to hold down interest rates in order to continue to goose whatever he could out of the stock market….
Then Covid hit and sent the economy into its greatest tailspin in a hundred years while Trump hid his head in the sand and tried to pretend the pandemic didn’t exist as hundreds of thousands died as a result.
As Ben has pointed out in the most basic of ways, if you look at the unemployment record of what Obama began with, and ended up with, it’s a pretty impressive trend downward. If you take what Trump began with, and what he left office with, you see one of the worst employment records in the history of the American presidency. And all the momentum I was speaking about just highlights the speed and intensity at which that phenomenon occured.
Now, I don’t expect for you to even be able to see that, let alone admit that because, developmentally speaking you clock in somewhere between the 13-14 year old age range and have enough cognitive dissonance for the whole block. So while I know you’re also incapable of letting any thread go without trying to get the last word, and that ‘last word’ will involve whoever you’re speaking to getting accused of being stupid and unable to understand reality — I know that’s what’s coming and will not answer back because it’s a complete waste of time…
But just know this: what you contribute to this blog comment section is the definition of one trick pony deflectionism supplied through consistently abusive language and a diesel powered dose of sheer ignorance and arrogance. Not sure why you don’t get flagged more often by the moderator, but that’s between you and him.
eb
Bug, let me take your response and see what is in it.
“Allan: I can see when I pointed out that you speak entirely in generality and platitude that it stung because you’ve taken a page from your hero’s book and then started to accuse me of it…, while still speaking in generality on your end. That’s the tactic trump has used all along, get accused of something, turn it aound and accuse everyone else of it…”
You wrote nothing but silly generalities and wasted space. You are not to be taken seriously.
“And the fact you post information and don’t understand what it says is standard fare for you. In your case here you’ve posted an informational source that points out … and then watched the momentum of that trend continue down under his early term, while the trend slowed its momentum. …”
More meaningless generalities without specifics.
I posted the actual raw unemployment numbers (U6) and demonstrated in that comparison unemployment fell almost 4 times faster under Trump than under Obama. I explained a bit about unemployment. The numbers speak for themselves. You could not contradict them, so you put a bunch of BS together so that any intelligent person will recognize you are an ignorant fool.
There is nothing in your response that relates to Obama’s failures in reducing the U 6. Additionally, you have not demonstrated that the fall in the U6 under Trump was not as I have mentioned.
Trump’s policies caused Obama to look like a failure in this regard. All you can do is pretend you know what graphs are (you don’t), but as I have proven to you on several occasions, you do not understand mathematics or statistics.
Here is some of my evidence previously stated.
The first ten months of Obama’s administration vs. Trump led to a drop in unemployment (U 6) under Trump almost 4 times as fast as under Obama.
Obama U6 2016
Jan: 9.9 Oct: 9.5
Trump U6 2017
Jan: 9.4 Oct: 7.9
Obama fell 0.4
Trump fell 1.5
SM
All of the “fixin” you ascribed to Obama was set in motion before Obama was inaugerated.
I know right? That explains the gigantic job loss the last months of the Bush fr. presidency.
Not even one meeeeellion!!
eb
I’ve been saying all along that Trump is due for a Queeg-class psychotic meltdown a la The Caine Mutiny.
That’s probably the vibe around Mar A Lago these days.
What Trump and his cronies deserve is to be cast off and set adrift like Captain Bligh in “Mutiny on the Bounty.”
True, but after the very public, Queeg-class meltdown.
It’s coming. He’s got a rally coming up in NC soon. Might happen right there.
eb
Trump trying to prove that the election was stolen reminds me of Queeg trying to prove that someone stole a helping of strawberries!
Bingo.
Exactly.
A madman.
As his officers look on, sad he’s going down and glad he’s going down.
Ben,
You should post that video clip for the edification of the Trumpists here. If we can get just 1 or possibly 2 of them to see the writing on the wall, it will be worth the effort.
I think I posted it already but Trumpers are beyond hope, I think.
As they say in Texas: “You buy em books and buy ’em books and they just chew on the covers.”
Gee, fellas, “If we can get just 1 or possibly 2 of them to see the writing on the wall, it will be worth the effort.” is unlikely to happen when you call people Trumpists or Trumpers.
“I think I posted it already but Trumpers are beyond hope, I think.”
Are you conveying to others what you mean to convey?
“”I beg you, do not be unchangeable: Do not believe that you alone can be right. The man who thinks that, the man who maintains that only he has the power to reason correctly, the gift to speak, the soul – a man like that, when you know him, turns out empty.” ~from Antigone
Ive got your Antigone right here.
The following things are true:
1. Donald Trump is on the wrong end of thousands of lawsuits and a couple dozen accusations of sexual assault.
2. He has gone bankrupt several times.
3. He was recorded live bragging about chasing married women and grabbing women by the pussy.
4. He has perved on his own daughter.
5. Just as he took office he lost a $25 million lawsuit for defrauding students.
6. He was fined $2 million for stealing from his own charity, and can no longer operate a charity in the state of New York.
7. He slimed his way into the presidency and was completely unprepared and incapable when America was confronted with a crisis.
8. He lost the election by 7 million votes, but ranted and lied incessantly about a stolen election and inspired a mob of sad, mullet-headed proles to storm the Capitol and get five people killed.
Anyone who supports Trump has serious problems with their intellect and/or integrity.
Simple as that.
If you want to see America become a Third World kleptocracy run by Banana Republicans, that’s on you.
I don’t.
I believe in truth, justice and the American way.
Prairie Rose,
You are the first person to indicate to me that they take umbrage at my use of “Trumpist.” It is not a pejorative. If you have a more fitting word to describe believers in Trump, please advise. As you have mentioned that you are a devout Christian, I can well understand that you don’t wish to be thought of as subscribing to that sacrilegious following! I don’t.
Despite my lack of faith in the supernatural, I am a Jew. Judaism asks questions. The people I fear have the answer. I fear those who have answers because they stop asking questions.
Unlike Trumpists, I have never closed my mind to any investigation by dismissing it as a “witch-hunt.” I have said that Hunter and Joe Biden should be investigated and prosecuted if there is a prima facie case. I am against all corruption- I don’t give a damn (pardon me) who it is.
I am not opposed to looking into allegations of fraud in the election not unlike Turley. Unlike a Trumpist, however, my mind is not made-up that the election was absolutely stolen in spite of the lack of evidence of widespread fraud!
A week or so ago, I stated here that I was prepared to accept a jury’s acquittal of Trump as legitimate. I openly asked if there was one Trumpist here who would go on the record and state that they would accept a guilty verdict as legitimate. No one replied. Will you?
Jeff Silberman
Ben M.,
“Anyone who supports Trump has serious problems with their intellect and/or integrity.
Simple as that.”
Not helpful. Nor true.
“If you want to see America become a Third World kleptocracy run by Banana Republicans, that’s on you.
I don’t.”
Then you might consider stopping slinging mud. And, it’s not just on me. It’s on you, too. This nasty banana has been tossed back and forth definitely since the 1950s at least–it ain’t nobodies’ “team”. It’s a nice sleight-of-hand actually. Like we ought to be paying attention to how many times people throw a ball rather than watch the guy in the gorilla suit steal the show.
“I believe in truth, justice and the American way.”
I hope so. We need to chase the Truth a little more doggedly.
Jeff S.,
“You are the first person to indicate to me that they take umbrage at my use of “Trumpist.” It is not a pejorative.”
It is coming across that way. Too much of a potentially charged label–like a trumpet blasting a bunch of noise to be ignored, if possible. ‘Trump supporter,’ while bland, does not carry a potentially charged connotation and would balance against Biden supporter. Just a thought. It is hard enough to discuss nuanced, difficult topics without heavy labels adding to the complexity and potentiality of things getting emotionally side-tracked.
“As you have mentioned that you are a devout Christian”
I am not exactly Christian, somewhat so, but I do try to take my beliefs seriously, even as I too often fail to live up to them.
I did not vote for Trump.
“Judaism asks questions. The people I fear have the answer. I fear those who have answers because they stop asking questions.”
Why do you fear? Is it just ‘those’ people who think they have *the* answers? Perhaps Trump supporters have some answers. Back in 2016, I remember looking at the slate of candidates and thinking, gosh, I like at least 1 thing about almost all of their platforms. I ended up voting ‘none of the above’.
I agree that it is very important to keep asking questions. What answers would you prefer? Decisions do have to be made or there is no ground to stand upon and nothing to aim at.
“I have never closed my mind to any investigation by dismissing it as a “witch-hunt.””
Did you ask whether it might be a witch-hunt? I’m not sure, but humans do seem to be prone to such things.
“I have said that Hunter and Joe Biden should be investigated and prosecuted if there is a prima facie case.”
Good. We agree.
“I am against all corruption- I don’t give a damn (pardon me) who it is.”
I agree.
“I openly asked if there was one Trumpist here who would go on the record and state that they would accept a guilty verdict as legitimate. No one replied. Will you?”
I am not a Trump supporter.
I also do not think there has been a dispassionate analysis of the past 5.5 years at all. I have rather complex opinions on the past few years, the last 2 in particular. Interesting, layered possibilities, a war of narratives and meaning.
Mea culpa. I did not read any of the testimony, etc of any of the trials in any substantial way to form an independent opinion. I chose to investigate other dumpster fires, so to speak.
I do think Trump does have the right to a fair trial, as, he, too, is a citizen.
Rose,
We mostly agree which is heartening. No, I don’t believe the government engages in witch-hunts- that is for the conspiracy minded. I believe our men and women in government are every bit as patriotic and probably a good deal more so than those who billing them as engaging in witch-hunts. They took an oath to serve- most of their accusers have not. These are red-blooded, god-fearing Americans whose service to our country should not be besmirched as the “Deep State.” Indecent!
Naturally, I believe that Trump should receive a fair trial, and he will! But you wait and see how many Trump supporters will cry “witch-hunt”, “unfair,” “rail-roaded,” etc. It will make your head spin. And no amount of Turley’s legal analysis defending the decision will persuade them to accept the verdict. They have invested their heart and soul into this man, and the last thing they want is to admit that they were had and give there perceived enemies the satisfaction of gloating. I will accept a jury decision either way- they WILL NOT! Bet on it!
Jeff S.,
“No, I don’t believe the government engages in witch-hunts- that is for the conspiracy minded.”
Joe McCarthy seemed to engage in witch-hunts. I’m pretty sure he isn’t the only example. Like I said, people are unfortunately prone to this when they get into a certain state of mind.
“I believe our men and women in government are every bit as patriotic and probably a good deal more so than those who billing them as engaging in witch-hunts. They took an oath to serve- most of their accusers have not.”
Many of them certainly are. Not all of them. Governance and politics attracts those who love power–including those who will desire to wield it for their own reasons, patriotic or not. The question of an oath is a serious one. I wonder how many take their oaths to defend and uphold the Constitution faithfully as seriously as they do their marriage vows? I hope they do take their oaths of office very seriously. However, seeing as how they refused to at least censure Clapper or Brennan for lying to Congress, for example, I’m feeling a little cynical and jaded.
“These are red-blooded, god-fearing Americans whose service to our country should not be besmirched as the “Deep State.” Indecent!”
If the shoe fits…
Many are certainly red-blooded Americans. Yet, there are agendas, there are plans, for whose benefit? For the real and righteous good of the country is a matter of debate; some of their reasons are not so much for ‘the good of the country’ as far as I can tell. They are rationalizations for some other ends it seems. Live not by lies, and, unfortunately, some do, and they ought to be held accountable.
Prairie, I am not trying to engage in this discussion you are having with Ball-Less Jeff. However, I want the historical record to be closer to the truth.
You wrote: “Joe McCarthy seemed to engage in witch-hunts.”
I was glad to see that you used the word, seemed because a lot of the history surrounding Joe McCarthy is wrong and is even inaccurate timewise. I am not a fan of Joe McCarthy. But, however one wishes to describe his actions, one has to recognize that the core of his argument was correct.
To express how we feel about what he said, we need to forget McCarthy’s personality and drunkenness. Instead, we need to focus on the central core of what he was saying. We need not classify him as a hero or a villain. Instead, we can look at history to decide if what he said was true. The Venona Project provides many of the answers and certainly proved McCarthy’s central ideas to be correct. Venona was Army Intelligence running simultaneously, but the data was released after much of history was written.
I neither like him or dislike him. But, I always ask, what individuals did he accuse of being a Communist? Were there no communists in government?
Whatever McCarthy was accused of then, whether or not the accusations were accurate, what the left is doing today is 100 times worse.
All “the left” is trying to do is repair the damage to the country wrought by the Republicans – again.
Obama had to come in and clean up the mess left behind by Bush43.
And Obama did that, and set the table and then Trump came in and shit all over the table and made an even bigger mess.
And now Biden has to clean that up.
Which he is doing, quietly and efficiently.
There was a time when the Republicans were self-righteous and self-important but at least they made the trains run on time.
Not any more.
Republicans screw it up. Democrats clean it up.
Trump and his minions are way closer to Joseph McCarthy than any other leftist/Democrat could hope to be.
People like you help me understand how Hitler could take power.
You’re an idiot.
Your president lost by a landslide.
The Republican party is in turmoil.
Please take a dive.
“People like you help me understand how Hitler could take power.”
Ben, many in Germany closed their eyes to what was happening, which is precisely what you do.
When provided with raw data, you respond with bluster and hyperbole to hide your ignorance. I provided you with simple raw numbers, which instead of dealing with, you ran away from. It is clear from just that one example that you are ignorant of the facts. It is that stubborn ignorance that makes you susceptible to another Hitler.
SM
Captain Bligh and his men made an incredible journey across the open sea and he was restored to command of a ship. See Nordhoff, “Men Against the Sea”. I like that analogy for President Trump. Difficult journey ending in restoration to the Oval Office. Thank you for that notion.
If you post a hypothetical, do you expect anyone to treat it as a fact?
Once again, it is OVER and Biden is President. However everyone has a right to their opinion and the right to express such. I also have a right to sell my tin foil hats to prevent the gamma rays from frying your brain. TIN FOIL HATS FOR SALE! GET YER TINFOIL HATS HERE!
Once again, it is OVER, King George III has won most of the battles. George Washington should remove his tinfoil hat and just stop. It is OVER.
They can’t buy tin foil hats.
They don’t have any money left because I sold them the Golden Gate Bridge.
Sorry.
I believe Professor Turley has made a factual error in one part of his post….that being suggesting Al Gore won the Count in Florida…..he did not.
The Count went to Bush…and later Media recounts by multiple groups confirmed Bush won.
That being said…his statement is consistent….to the extent he says both Bush and Biden were (Bush) and is (Biden) and the process to determine the actual result is far more difficult than Powell is thinking.
One thing is for sure….the Democrats howled over Bush winning….and today are castigating Republicans for their same criticisms of the results of the latest Presidential Election.
Then got their recounts and their challenges heard in the Courts…to include the Supreme Court…..we have not!
Turley: here’s the problem when you build a blog following that is willing to believe crazed election fake news rather than the evidence coming from the courts. When they’re willing to believe any sort of abstraction rather than the evidence that is clearly visible. You’ve got a fair percentage of deranged followers who will not believe you when you try to reel in the rhetoric your employer at Fox and its show hosts regularly toss out to feed the beast. Is is worth it to you? Maybe take a spin through these comment sections when you write throwaway deflections about a teacher somewhere who said some kind of weird thing about a weird subject. The people *you’ve attacted* start reading sheer insanity into what you’re using for defliection material. Hell, you even jumped on the bandwagon to get an awesome journalist demoted from the department head job she was entirely qualified for. Do you feel good about that??? That’s the sort of thing your efforts have amounted to. I don’t suspect you have evil intent, but I’m voting right here that you’ve stepped well past the point of being misguided…
As Jeff often points out, these people will turn on you immediatley when a Trump indictment comes down and you don’t have the luxury of going all ‘look, squirel!’. History is replete with characters who’ve engaged in the sort of rhetorical three card monty you engage in on this blog. It never turns out well. It proves to be not worth the money that provides the original impetus. The people practicing it become known everywhere for being the mouthpieces for the gradual acceptance of evil that they, well, actually are…, no matter what they tell themselves to justify it along the way. Yeah, yeah…, free speech, I know. But you fairly regularly engage in censorship on this blog, and to top it off, clearly, as this thread’s comment section has shown, these people will actively disregard your attempts to bring the plane in for some sort of sane landing. That’s what you’ve created in playing the following building game. You’ve done it well, no question about that. Consider that your blog built a following where the ex-president they claim to admire and revere couldn’t even get through one month with his own blog…, these people would rather come here to rail on about insanity than they would their leader’s own place of social influencing…
Not to put it all on you…, I think I’ve come to the conclusion that those of us more of the more practical inclinations provide your followers the chance to tee off as well. notice that the approach of trying to treat insane conjecture with rational, fact based response is met immediately with personal attack…, a sure sign that the attackers are losing an argument certainly, but why even participate in the exchange? What does it actually provide? So we all have something to witness and consider. it seems things are well past where any sort of hard turn, or even a more gradual turn of blog theme is going to change where this train is heading. The time to eject, for you, was probably during the days your friend Barr resigned when he most likely saw what was coming on 1/6. He was willing to squash multiple investigations of trump, even stand in as AG to protect trump personally from a rape charge…, but the last month of the trump administration was even too much for him. Why do you have more skin in the game than he does, Turley??? Ask youself that…
So here are my best wishes to you in trying to ‘right this ship’ in the ways you think may work. Like I’ve said, I believe it’s past that point and you’re playing against really long odds, the kind of odds history doesn’t often grant (and even if it does it’s for much more worthy pursuits). We’re collectively in a time of mass hysteria, a time of metaphorical witch burning, a time of equivalent McCarthy-ism…, and you’re on the side that’s going more than a little bit hog wild. It’s so far past the harrumph consciousness that you’re ‘tyranny of the left’ academic cocktail party consciousness is equipped to deal with. You’ve stepped past the dinosaur stage into being an enabler. Not a great place to be when history shakes itself out…
You’ve got some work to do, Jon. And this is the moment when you can’t just mail it in anymore. Seriously.
eb
EB,
+10,000.
That’s a gorgeous level of writing, I tip my hat to you sir.
Thanks, Svelaz. i always appreciate what you have to say as well. Interesting place to drop in and visit, isn’t it? Ha!
eb
Two peas in a pod. They side with agreement, not fact, which makes them both equally ignorant.
SM
i addressed your type of response in my post, Allan Smeyer.
eb
You addressed it and that is why I said: “Two peas in a pod. They side with agreement, not fact, which makes them both equally ignorant.”
Cool. Glad we’re clear on that. Get back to me when you’re capable of speaking in something that resembles clearly drawn points rather than in just absurd generalities and platitudes.
eb
Bug, you are right. No one can compete with our generalities and platitudes. I’ll get back to you when you post something factual and significant. I’ll get there earlier if you post something Stupid.
Oh goodie. Can’t wait.
eb
Ditto
Anonymous says:
“Sidney Powell sure unraveled in a big way. She wrote an excellent book about corruption in DOJ (License to Lie) but something happened to her when she started working on the election lawsuits. Disappointing as most of the crazies are on the left.”
My hunch is that eventually you will have the same opinion of Turley as he discredits more and more Trumpists who go off the deep end especially when the prosecutions begin. Matters are quickly coming to a head.
It’s remarkable that Turley will cite the ominous fact that a Yahoo News/YouGov poll found that 64 percent of Republicans believe that the 2020 election was “rigged and stolen from Trump,” and yet he will not reflect *publicly* how it is that figure became a reality. Privately, he knows full well that months of Trump’s Big Lie broadcasted by his network Fox, et.al., drummed this falsehood into the minds of the Trumpists. And yet he would have us believe that the curative is more speech. He assumes that Trumpists were willing to listen. But Trump demanded that his followers not listen to the mainstream media; it was “fake news.” I’m not advocating for government censorship, but the fact is that Turley’s model of free speech is not workable under such circumstances.
In all his appearances on Fox, while Turley would not dismiss out-of-hand Trump’s lawsuits, he never once suggested that the election was stolen. Indeed, he tried to tamp down such widespread fears by downplaying the likelihood of the success of these lawsuits. He stated that Trump was attempting to throw a Hail Mary pass hoping that a judge would overturn a State election result even if some modicum of fraud could be proven. And yet despite his efforts to bring some sanity to the Fox audience, 64% of Republicans believe the election was stole!
Will the preeminent free speech professor of law, and the heralded Fox News legal analyst, explain what went wrong?
Uhm we all saw it stolen in front of our eyes.
Let’s stop the count for …a water leak lol.
Tell me, PubliusFlavius, is there anything or anyone who can convince you that the election was not stolen? If Turley cannot persuade you, will it take none other than Trump himself to declare that the election was not stolen before you will finally believe it? Seriously.
Trump? Which president was it who said “I cannot tell a lie.”
Washington?
Lincoln?
Trump is the opposite.
He wouldn’t know the truth if it jumped into bed with him.
Anyone who believes a word he says is a sap.
There was no election fraud.
SCOTUS said so.
Everyone said so.
Wake up.
“My hunch is that eventually you will have the same opinion of Turley as he discredits more and more Trumpists who go off the deep end especially when the prosecutions begin.”
Above is the face of Jeff. He is so twisted he feels that those that choose not to be on the left will hate Turley because of his negative statements towards some on the right.
Jeff is displaying his deep-seated intolerance to anyone with a differing opinion. That is because he isn’t intelligent enough to follow the facts.
Turley politics reside on the left side of the aisle. However, many on the right were drawn to Turley because of his strong stance on civil liberties and his demonstrated abilities to provide intelligent legal commentary.
Jeff isn’t that way. Instead, he pretends to be a neutral observer who is just a little left. But that is not who Jeff is. Instead, he attacks anyone with a different opinion despite having no facts to answer the questions at hand. That leaves the other party looking at Jeff’s back as Jeff runs away.
The right doesn’t change when the discussion changes. So the right continues to value Turley in the same way. That is not Jeff. Jeff goes ballistic, attacking the professor with puerile and defamatory claims. He is unstable. His moods are guided by what is happening in the world rather than Turley’s dialogue. Jeff’s brain doesn’t permit him to see that and places the blame on Turley.
Jeff’s ignorance is only partly responsible for his obnoxious attitudes. As a child, he must have been pampered too much, being a spoiled brat given everything.
We are in a place where precents are made and there is no entry in the dictionary. There is no “reinstatement” if there was no removal. In a number of situations that I have experienced, if you don’t have a secure, reliable system that can stand up to review (audit), you got nothing. The phrase, “Enemies, foreign and domestic” comes to mind. Things could get interesting. Top officials and generals may not be “human” but they probably know that they are mortal. That is one Heck of a bet!
I would like to see a full transcript of the purported claims. Perhaps I missed it. There is nothing like seeing matters in detail and full context instead of a news story about what was said. We endured years of Russia collusion rhetoric on the news cycles only to find out it was paid opposition “research” that endlessly cycled through the media and was simply not true. How else can the 24 hour news machine stay solvent? As the Don Henley song says, “Give us dirty laundry.”
Something is amiss with this story. Time will sort truth from fiction.
Regarding election audits, if the process was carefully and meticulously handled, then there is nothing to fear. The upside is voters have reassurance of a sound process and election officials have an after action report to analyze and use to make sound policy modifications if needed.
Let’s see what this looks like next month or maybe next year.
If fraud is found to have occurred sufficient to change the outcome during the 2020 election, then EVERYTHING is forfeited in regards to that election. Should that happen, a new election would have to be held and most likely, it would take a “provisional government” such as the military to oversee a new election, thus Flynn would be correct. The military “should” and would have to take control and that is what happened in Myanmar.
There was no fraud. Smoke another bowl.
You embarrass me. You embarrass yourself.
You care what sheep think?
Believe it or NOT – Fraud Vitiates Everything; Including Elections! – — United States Supreme Court * “Vitiates” in a legal context means negates, quashes, annuls, invalidates, revokes and abrogates. WHEN it is discovered that Biden/Harris won the presidency through FRAUD against We The People there are remedies: the outcome of a POTUS election that is rife with one-sided fraud and criminality is rendered null and void. Especially any result which saw the winner attain his or her victory through fraudulent means and/or criminal conduct is automatically canceled and invalid under the law. An election is essentially a binding contract between the electorate and the elected. This indispensable social contract is irreparably broken through voter fraud and election cyber-crimes as the public trust is profoundly violated.
Hence, Joe Biden’s illicitly declared victory is illegitimate and therefore annulled forthwith. The Biden-Harris ticket has also forfeited any right to a recount or a re-run of the election because of their highly organized and premeditated fraud perpetrated to outright steal it. Remember, fraud vitiates everything. President Trump is, therefore, the victor of the 2020 POTUS election by default…by law…and according to the U.S. Constitution. By every indication, his electoral triumph was sealed by the will of a great majority of the American people. The proof of this fraud will be determined by the Audits. This is why the current audits in the swing states are important.
http://themillenniumreport.com/2020/11/lets-be-very-clear-about-the-2020-election-outcome-fraud-vitiates-everything/
There was no fraud, you clueless drip. The only fraud was Trump and he was removed from office.
Trump packed SCOTUS with his monkeys, and they still shot him down.
The dumbest 50% of America had their idiot president for four years, with the expected result.
So shut up and go back to the Home Shopping Network.
Ben Marcus:
“The dumbest 50% of America had their idiot president for four years, with the expected result.
So shut up and go back to the Home Shopping Network.”
*************************
You’re a sick name-dropping puppy with a god-complex. There are lots of folks here and elsewhere who are quite a bit smater, weathier and certainly more decent than you and yet supported Trump. I’m really hope karma is a beeatch and that I’m around to see it come back around on you. I don’t wish you ill but I’d be happy to spectate it.
Turley has not commented on the Arizona audit, has he? Fox News will not mention it either while in the midst of defending its billion dollar defamation lawsuits for promoting the “Stop the Steal” lie upon which the audit is based. Turley knows better than to bring it up!
The linked analysis is predicated upon a 1878 Supreme Court case sitting as a court in equity not in law. Secondly, the ruling was rendered on the law of contracts; not elections. It just goes to show how a little bit of knowledge in the wrong hands is a dangerous thing!
What does stolen mean? Sufficient fraudulent ballots to change the result? I kind of doubt it, but not sure you can prove a negative. Unfairness, clearly whether in the form of censoring Hunter Biden stories and many other incidents, but life is unfair. Unfairness doesn’t disqualify Biden from the presidency. It does mean that half the country will not trust mainstream news for a generation (or more), nor should they. I know that I won’t. Not a healthy situation.
Olly states:
“[Turley] says: It is a mystery to me how Powell believes that Trump could be “resinstated” but the Constitution is clear:
LOL! The constitution is referred to as a parchment barrier for a reason. It’s a mystery to me why you consider anything “clear” within the constitution, after 4 years of Democrats, IC/FBI/DOJ doing everything imaginable to violate it.”
And so it begins- the Turley Trumpists finally turning against Turley. It was inevitable as I predicted. And it will only get worse as Trump is indicted and prosecuted. Turley will not engage in “whataboutism” in an effort to defend Trump. He will not undercut the legitimacy of the jury system nor will he impugn the integrity of the presiding judges. As tempers rise and the stakes increase, Turley will not be able to deftly straddle the political fence between his liberal academic values and Fox’s pro-Trumpist editorial demands. For Republicans, “you are either with us or against us.” Period. There is no in-between. Turley will have to take a side; and it’s becoming clear which side he will choose.
And so it begins- the Turley Trumpists finally turning against Turley.
😀 Nope. Not even close.
In the meantime, Fauci’s legacy is going up in smoke and Biden/Harris are destroying our country. Which is all anyone needs to know to explain why you and your fellow Marxist enemies of the state desperately effort to focus all the attention on Trump.
Olly,
I presume you have pre-ordered your copy of Mark Levin’s new book, “American Marxism”? Am I right?
To date, I have never heard Levin mention Turley by name, and I have never read Turley referring to Levin. But that may change when Levin goes on Hannity, Ingraham and Carlson’s shows to promote his book, and his hateful name calling becomes news. While Turley may try to avoid having to pass judgment on this book by his pretending not to notice it, do you wanna bet that he would denounce it unequivocally?
Nope. You’re wrong again.
Olly,
Don’t be like Turley. Answer my question- do you wanna bet that Turley would denounce anyone calling Leftists “Marxists”?
Fuc* your asinine trolling. It’s 2021 and your President is Biden. Deal with that.
Fraud vitiates all contracts. He who can be deceived let him!! That is the de facto law form. Find and/or join or start your own state’s Jural Assembly form your own de jure Civilian Court of record law form. Biden is evil. Donald J. Trump is an oath breaker without honor and may not hold a posititon of thrust.
Now, now, Olly, let’s play nice in Turley’s sandbox! No point throwing a tantrum. Chill out. We’re among friends, no? After all, we all share a common interest in participating on this blog. We can build on that!
Trump is indefensible. He’s a charlatan and a crook. Hopefully he goes to prison for a variety of reasons: tax evasion, money laundering, breaking campaign rules.
Trump thinks if you have enough money, the rules don’t apply to you.
Facebook and Twitter showed him he’s wrong and now it’s time for the SDNY.
Unfortunately there’s nothing in the Constitution against being vulgar and stupid.
“Facebook and Twitter showed him he’s wrong and now it’s time for the SDNY.”
Alevai!
Inshallah.
“He’s a charlatan and a crook. Hopefully he goes to prison for a variety of reasons: tax evasion, money laundering, breaking campaign rules.
_________ thinks if you have enough money, the rules don’t apply to you.”
An unfortunate number of those in Congress (and the presidency) fit this description.
Hi Prairie Rose,
What I find most ironic is the warning espoused by Giuliani and Trump’s defenders that “if this could happen to them, it could happen to you!” Instead of eliciting fear, this proclamation should be celebrated, namely, that no one- not even the high and mighty- is above the law- that which can happen to you can happen to them!
The 1972 Presidential Election serves as a roadmap. If you recall the sequence of events, the Committee to Re-Elect The President (CREEP) committed venal, illegal acts of campaign espionage at the Watergate Complex, employing former CIA operatives, and yet was able to cover-up White House involvement until well past the Election and 2nd Inauguration of Pres. Nixon.
The White House successfully defrauded the public long enough to win the election. Had the full truth come out before Election Day, it’s questionable whether Nixon would have pulled off re-election.
The matter was resolved through a forced resignation when the full truth came out. The President’s Party got to finish out the term with VP Gerald Ford ascending.
Sidney Powell is living in some alternate universe. I don’t know how you even pay attention to a person so far off their rocker.
Attorney Lin Wood is another QAnon follower who is off his rocker. Turley will have to denounce him as well if his inane comments ever become newsworthy. Turley has already questioned Giuliani’s temperament. Along with disgraced Sidney Powell, these were the principal attorneys leading the charge contesting the legitimacy of the election. A challenge which Turley once heartily defended on legal grounds and criticized the Democrats for pooh-poohing.
Now, Turley has no choice but to denounce their idiocy as if it were not apparent from the get-go. Turley will continue to distance himself from the Trumpists he once defended.
Sidney Powell sure unraveled in a big way. She wrote an excellent book about corruption in DOJ (License to Lie) but something happened to her when she started working on the election lawsuits. Disappointing as most of the crazies are on the left.
You can say that again. I was a big fan of hers once her name came to light… then before you know it she turned Rachel Maddow nuts!
At a minimum Biden will be shown to be illegitimate and that will hopefully weaken him dramatically. We need legislation or a Const. Amendment to address proven stolen elections at all levels because this will happen again.
Where’s your proof? Put up or shut up. Every single Secretary of State certified the results, including Republican ones.
Fraud vitiates all contracts. Period. in all law forms.
Vitiation only gets you 25% there. You need remedies spelled out in detail in law.
This is exactly the brick wall ran into by the Ted Cruz-Josh Hawley gang leading up to Jan 6th. The Constitution gives State Legislatures exclusive power to run elections for Federal Offices. But in the case of interference by other State Actors, there is no remedy specified. There is no power given to Congress to do other an open the box and read/tally the EC Certificates.
Conclusion: The responsibility falls heavily on the State Legislatures to proactively assure the integrity of each election, through a process of vulnerability analysis and fraud/tampering countermeasures.
The Orange County 2020 case is worth studying. The MS-13 gang conspired with 2 officials (one a previous Mayor) to obtain 8000 absentee ballots belonging homeless people, and throw the election to MS-13’s plant for Mayor of Hawthone CA. The conspiracy was detected before the ballots were mailed out. This case is by far the largest election tampering case of 2020 in terms of the intended level of fraud.
You make real conservative republicans look like asses with your asinine opinion.
I’ve worked academic, hospita;, and industrial labs. If you don’t have “proof” (it is called an audit), you have nothing. As near as I can tell, the voting and tabulating machines were not secure, the software wasn’t verified, and neither the electronic results nor the identity of many “voters” were verified. It wasn’t an “election” in any meaningful way. Then the patterns of voting results were too odd to accept without a forensic audit. There used to be a paper tape record. All I got was a video picture of an American flag.
No audit means no election. The blinky lights and TV visuals were just theater.
Don’t you think all of the Republicans in each state who were present during the set up of polling places and machines, in checking voter IDs, in securing ballots, in counting ballots, would know if any of the things you claim could be true? Explain how Trump could win since most Americans were repulsed by him, as shown in every single poll. Why did Trump’s own cyber security chief say the election was the most-secure in history? Why didn’t Barr find corruption, if it was there? You are being lied to, Mike. Trump lost because most Americans never wanted him in the first place. Why are you so willing to believe proven lies?
The DNC and RNC are the approved left and right wings of the same bird. They are the Swamp Creatures. They may attack each other but bot the habitat. There really is an active conspiracy, the industrial/military/judicial/legislative/executive/banker/ BAR/royalist/communist/muslim/GeorgiaGuide stone complex.
At a minimum Biden will be shown to be illegitimate and that will hopefully weaken him dramatically. We need legislation or a Const. Amendment to address proven stolen elections at all levels because this will happen again.
I do believe that this was the most corrupt election in the history of our nation, and that it was stolen from President Trump. I for one do not know if this could be corrected but I can hardly wait for the day when Joe Biden vacates the White House.
Based on what evidence do you “believe” that the election, certified by Trump’s own cybersecurity chief as the most-secure in history was “corrupt”? Explain how on earth Trump could win when he lost the popular vote in 2016, when most Americans never approved of him, when he botched the pandemic, trashed the economy and every single poll predicted his loss? Why didn’t Bill Barr find evidence of corruption? Why didn’t multiple recounts and court challenges find corruption? Where’s the proof, other than the fantasies of a corrupt, chronic, habitual liar?
We know they will never allow the real results to be known. But if somehow they let the forensic audits play out, it will prove what Trump has been saying.
They were all quick to dismiss election fraud concerns as baseless conspiracy theories only because Trump sounded the alarm.
Democrats, including Sen. Kamala Harris have spoken about how easy it is to hack voting machines.
The 2020 election was rigged and stolen. Without a doubt.
No, it wasn’t. Trump lost by seven million popular votes.
America realized they had made a huge mistake, and voted Trump out in a landslide.
Wake up. Put down the reefer. Learn how to think.
No American should be that gullible and dumb.
Do you wonder if this Fauci email news is all a huge misdirection and we need to instead focus on what they would divert our attention away from? Hmmmm.
The Republicans are whining about it, so it’s meaningless. Just throwing up another smokescreen to cover their own incompetence.
I would not be surprised if Wuhan was intentionally released from within China – perhaps by agents from Taiwan or Hong Kong hoping to embarass China.
And to make it look like it came from Fauci is just good tradecraft.
Fauci is being prepared to be thrown under the bus. Do you think he knows it?
Fauci survived Trump. He can survive anything.
He’s the most relieved person in America, after Melania.
Fauci suffered four years of professional and moral and intellectual constipation, and then he took a giant Trump.
He’ll be fine. America trusts him.
Ben Marcus I name you Agent Provocateur.
Nah, it’s time to feed the beast. Fauci is the next human sacrifice. Let’s predict shall we? I say less than 60 days before Fauci is “retiring.”
Naw, this is all just Republican flatulence, trying to deflect blame for their criminally incompetent mishandling of Coronavirus.
Fauci will survive.
He’s a good dude, doing the best he can.
No one listens to the Republicans anymore, except the Republicans.
This is a tempest in a test tube.
Fauci is history. And….
Arizona, Georgia, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire. Keep your eyes on the ball.