The conviction of Ghislaine Maxwell for five out of six criminal charges was heralded by many as bringing some justice for the girls abused through her actions. Indeed, the Southern District of New York correctly called the underlying conduct as “one of the worst crimes imaginable – facilitating and participating in the sexual abuse of children.” However, that statement only begged the question of why none of the men listed on flights of the “Lolita Express” or on the guest lists of these parties have been prosecuted. That list includes former presidents Bill Clinton and Donald Trump as well as Prince Andrew and an assortment of billionaires. It is not clear if these men committed criminal acts but it is also not clear that they have been formally questioned by the FBI.
As I discussed last night, this criminal enterprise was allegedly not only to bring girls and women to Epstein but to his powerful friends. Without pursuing those alleged “johns,” the Maxwell prosecution seems like arresting a getaway driver but letting the bank robbers escape.
The pictures of men on these trips are now well-known. They do not in themselves establish criminal conduct. For example, the pictures of Clinton getting a message from a 22-year-old woman is not illegal and she later described him as a “perfect gentleman.” However, Clinton has been accused of misleading the public on his number of flights with Epstein. The media has reported at least 26 flights with Epstein. Being a repeated guest with an infamous child molester raises obvious concerns. It is certainly enough to warrant questioning by the FBI.
Then there is Prince Andrew who has been pursued for questioning. Much of the litigation, however, has come from civil litigation. Prince Andrew recently put forward a novel defense in one such case.
Yet, there is a concern that the Justice Department has previously worked to scuttle rather than to pursue the underlying wrongdoing, including a disgraceful plea agreement. I was an early and vocal critic of that deal with Epstein. Despite a strong case for prosecution, Epstein’s lawyers were able to secure a ridiculous deal with prosecutors. He was accused of abusing more than forty minor girls (with many between the ages of 13 and 17). Epstein pleaded guilty to a Florida state charge of felony solicitation of underage girls in 2008 and served a 13-month jail sentence. Epstein was facing a 53-page indictment that could have resulted in life in prison. However, he got the 13 month deal. Moreover, to my lasting surprise, former Miami U.S. attorney Alexander Acosta was inexplicably made labor secretary under Trump. He later resigned.
While the FBI aggressively (and correctly) pursued Maxwell, there is no evidence of such a concerted effort to investigate the men who may have been involved in sex trafficking. Given the all-out effort on Ashley Biden’s diary, it would be good to see an equal effort on Jeffrey Epstein’s alleged co-conspirators.
If Epstein allegedly transported women and girls to his island for visits with himself and these men, there is ample reason to interview them. It is not clear if Maxwell has further evidence to offer, but this is the time to produce it. While she is not practically looking at 65 years, she can easily receive a sentence around 15 years even as a first offender. That sentence could be reduced with cooperation credit. What is not clear is how focused the SDNY is on developing cases that focus not just on the “transportation” but the destination of these flights.
The human brain is not fully matured in many adults.
You completely miss my point, which is, given the sexual precosity of today’s teens, should society revisit the “age of consent” and/or provide for some culpability of OLDER minors in prohibited sexual engagement. Age, I proffer, -like level of maturity, level of intelligence, education, upbringing, etc., -could be a MITIGATING but not EXCULPATORY factor.
(the above comment was intended as response to gray Anonymous, who defended that “the human brain was not fully matured” in minors. I respectfully point out that in some OLDER teens, comprehensive and cognitive understanding is way above that of an adult several years older. I simply point out that age is an equivocal criterion in some cases.
(looks like gray Anonymous has removed his/her subject comment to me…)
(precocity)
“To beg a question” means to avoid a question, not to beg for the question to be answered as you and so many others have misused the phrase. Otherwise I agree and have been saying this for a long time.
Deborah, according to Merriam Webster your definition is secondary and Professor Turley’s usage is primary. You are correct about the definition you state, but your conclusion is incorrect.
Jonathan: Finally, we agree on something. But why are you surprised the “Johns” in this lurid case will not be held accountable? You shouldn’t. The history of the sexual exploitation of women and girls is rife with “Johns” being allowed to scurry out the back while the madams are handcuffed. Don’t hold your breath in hopes the likes of Donald Trump, Bill Clinton, Prince Andrew, Alan Dershowitz or the other rich and powerful, who names appear on the flight logs of the “Lolita Express”, will be at least interviewed by the DOJ or the FBI–let alone prosecuted as part of the sexual abuse of minor girls. All of the above will be walking the streets as free men while Maxwell is doing her hard time.
Speaking of Dershowitz this low-life constitutional “scholar”. appeared on BBC News to discuss the Maxwell verdict. He spent most of his time trying to discredit Virginia Giuffre who has charged that she was forced to have sex with Dershowitz by Epstein when she was a minor. The BBC later apologized for putting on someone with a clear conflict of interest. The BBC said Dershowitz “was not a suitable person to interview as an impartial analyst”. Indeed! This is the part of the fall out from the Maxwell verdict you neglected to mention. Why focus on Clinton (with appended photo) when Dershowitz was also a prime participant in Epstein’s sordid scheme?
“It’s a disgustingly male world we live in Delores.” Vera Donovan
What is disgusting are powerful men who like to play with teenybopper girls. They get off on a power trip and if they are rich enough or know the right people they walk away unscathed. They have no shame.
If this was your teenage daughter could you allow this? Most fathers would beat the daylights out of these creeps if they found out what these perverts did to their child. I hope she gives the names of the perpetrators before someone gets to her.
“Plane Bang” Maxwell’s silver didn’t keep her out of the slammer.
Darren, obscure, but pretty good.
Can we all agree that Hitler was a naughty man? Putin should have the self-awareness that he’s acting like Hitler, and should probably stop.
What’s in it for me?
Celebrity golf star, Tiger Woods went for sexual addiction therapy after having sex with over 100 females while his wife Elin Nordegren was pregnant. It cost Tiger his marriage & $103 million.
Tiger’s therapy was focused on some mitigation: close your eyes, open your legs, let me fertilize those god damn eggs.
Every female ever interviewed said the sex with Tiger was the best!
This is just one of those things read when surfing the Internet, I pray that is false. Paraphrasing— The person in charge of ENGLAND’S Orphanages had been placing young orphan boys with paedophiles, for 20? 30? Years. His explanation was that the boys would have someone who would love and protect them. This continued into 2010 or longer.
good points, Mr Turley. the answer may lay with one of the prosecuting attorneys being lying James Comey’s daughter, and that blood is thicker than water.
This case is almost mind-boggling. People – including Turley — keep referring to the women, who are all now in their thirties – as “children” when they were in fact adolescents and in many cases, adults. By definition, a child is a person who hasn’t reached puberty. The girls in Florida were high school students whose friends – including Guiffere – recruited them to give Epstein massages. I’ve not seen any claims that they were “happy ending” massages although Epstein is reputed to have masturbated in the presence of the girls. Only one claimed to have had sex with him, at his ranch in New Mexico after he flew her there on his jet. The women who claimed to have been on his island were just that women, women in their twenties who had been hired as masseuses. None of them could be called “Lolitas” after Nabokov’s character, who was twelve. I fear that sex trafficking laws, which were designed to protest young girls forced into prostitution, are being misused in this case. Maxwell was convicted of trafficking for recruiting girls to work as masseuses for Epstein. They were not forced into it and were free to go, as many did. Turley brings up Donald Trump but none of the women have made any accusations involving him.
The federal and state laws define adulthood in sexual decisionmaking as 18, 17 or 16. Puberty is not to be equated with adulthood. It’s the start of a maturation path that leads to adulthood. How was Epstein’s operation not entrapping girls in prostitution, as they were enticed with $200-600 for giving semi-nude massages?…and for bringing in new girls?
–And the “age of reason” under common law dating back to the 1700s-and a concept dating to the earlier Renaissance period, (i.e., the age when one is capable of questioning/distinguishing right from wrong) was “seven.” I am not defending the men– I simply question whether older “minors” should also be found culpable or at least contributory in, let’s say something like “sexual misconduct with a minor.” I DO believe in “statutory rape” culpability-which allows no consideration or excuse-even when girls lie about their age), but these cases (Epstein) generally involved less. When I was only 12′, I was “enticed” by a neighbor down the road who promised me a new bike (my parents had told me I had to wait until Christmas) if I went with him in the car. He promised not to tell my parents and he would keep the bike at his house. (I didn’t go and told my mom.)
Are you saying that “16, 17, 18” year-olds (with or without parents) are incapable of discerning right from wrong?
Lin,
I did not follow this trial closely, but I believe the 4 girls who testified against Maxwell were under the age of consent which, as you point out, means that it is statutory rape. Any girl having sex with Epstein or Maxwell above the age of consent is not criminal unless it is forcible rape or some other non-consensual sexual assault. It would be difficult for a prosecutor to bring a case against Epstein/Maxwell for having sex with an 18+ girl since the defense would claim that this was a case of “friends with benefits.” Given the extraordinary benefits Epstein could bestow and the lifestyle he could provide, convincing a poor girl to enter into such a relationship was not a hard sell apparently. Epstein probably would have skirted the law had he not engaged with underage women though he may have been guilty of trafficking them to other men. I have not read the federal trafficking statute , but if the women Epstein convinced to sleep with his friends were all above 18, prosecuting these “sugar daddies” may not be feasible. It may be a fine line between being a pimp and prostitution and “boys will be boys” and “party girls.” The fact that the vast majority of women have not named “Johns” may be because they would like to remain anonymous for obvious reasons, and they may have signed NDA’s with their “sugar daddies” who continue to “sponsor” them. There is alot we just don’t know.
Thank you for your response, Jeffsilberman, but my original point has been lost. To repeat–my original point was,- given the age of sexual awareness and activity among today’s teens, should society revisit “the age of consent” in statutory provisions (outside of statutory rape), and/or revisit the idea of contributory conduct in other criminal sexual cases, e.g., “sexual misconduct with a minor,” by subjecting these teens to more discovery? thanks.
(p.s., I realize that some states employ the classic definition of “statutory rape” to mean intercourse/penetration, etc., but have separate criminal statutes for other sexual activity with a minor, –whereas other states more broadly include everything done with a minor as “statutory rape”)
Lin,
The criminal law has to draw a line somewhere for the sake of due process even if the statutory age is rather arbitrary when it comes to all girls. I agree that girls are much more sophisticated and experienced nowadays. They mature earlier.
Girls mature earlier…and yet you don’t seem to have matured at all.
You made a funny! Good for you!
You make a good point, but I’m beginning to think you did not read my original comment, which NEVER proposed removing the line drawn, -but rather, perhaps revisiting the definitive age at which the line is drawn, —considering the sexual precocity and activity of today’s teens (but NOT including the classic definition of “statutory rape.” Wait wait, I take that back because you responded to my original comment with your “two to tango” remark.
I think we should keep the line drawn where it is, but maybe make exceptions to the rule in extraordinary cases.
commenter “pbinca” (above) noted that federal and state laws differ with age, mostly “18, 17, 16.” A little confusing for “due process” eh? -And maybe contributing to interstate activity seeking a more favorable forum. I would advocate ALL states and fed lower the age to 16, for the reasons I mentioned. Thanks for the discussion.,
“I would advocate ALL states . . .”
Many states do have “Romeo and Juliet laws” that cover age differences for those 16-18.
To my knowledge, none of the girls have alleged that they were held against their will and/or transported across state lines against their will. I also believe, but could be wrong, that none of the girls allege that they were forcibly disrobed or were forcibly made to perform sexual acts.
What has been alleged is that Maxwell coerced and enticed young girls to perform various sexual acts with herself, Epstein, and others.
Regardless of the degree of willingness of the minor girl, performing sexual acts with them is a crime – statutory rape. Transporting minor girls across state lines for sexual purposes is a crime – sexual trafficking. Recording sexual performances of or with minor girls is a crime – child pornography (remember the extensive ‘surveillance system). Of course, a savvy prosecutor will greatly add to this list of crimes.
My point is that these are prosecutable crimes even in the hypothetical case where the minor girls line up and ask to be victimized.
True, and my original point was, given the amount of sexual precocity and ACTIVITY among today’s teens, should society revisit the “age of consent” standard and/or include culpability for some activity of minors?
True, and my original point was, given the amount of sexual precocity and ACTIVITY among today’s teens, should society revisit the “age of consent” standard and/or include culpability for some activity of minors?
Sexual precociousness is not an indication that a person is mentally/emotionally mature enough to understand the ramifications of their actions.
Personanongrata: -And you are declaring that, as a matter of unequivocal law, a 19-year-old possesses more “mental/emotional maturity enough to understand the ramifications of their [sic] actions”-than an 18-year-old? Or, a 17-year-old more than a 16- year-old? I do not disagree with your general premise, i.e., the relative maturity of teens vs. adults. I merely propose (as mentioned in my earlier comment) that with OLDER teens, age should be a MITIGATING, but not always EXCULPATORY factor. I bring to your attention what commenter “pbinca” noted: that states vary in their definitive age of consent, “18, 17, 16.” If medical and scientific evidence were so conclusive/dispositive, then why would experts disagree on the definitive age? Go back and read my very first comment…thanks
I dunno, does the FBI ever disclose their investigations? More likely, now that they’ve got their guilty verdict, authorities have much more sway over Ghislaine Maxwell.
The FBI didn’t even offer her a plea deal. She has no leverage because the FBI doesn’t want any names leaked. She’s the “sacrificial lamb” to put this case to bed.
Those investigations will never happen. The minions of the Left have no interest in justice that would impair the status of its heroes. In fact, I doubt the Left has any actual interest at all in justice, per se, only in punishment of its preceived enemies. Otherwise there would have long since been a real investigation into the allegations that Woody Allen molested his step daughter. Ironically, if everyone on Epstein’s client list participated in the sexcual abuse of minors (which certainly has not been established), the presence of the Bills (et al) on that list might be protecting Donald Trump.
Biden and Putin will share their favorite holiday recipes
Shout out to George Floyd on 584 days of sobriety. It took some tough love but he did it. Say his name liberals!
Children can be little monsters. There are lots of cases of them committing horrible crimes.
You know, I’m going to throw out a very controversial thought here….Before law school, I engaged in substitute teaching for a few years. The principal most often placed me in junior high and high school classrooms. I was quite appalled at the number of “girls” who laughed, whispered, and bragged about getting boys sexually excited. Thanks much to social media and television, these new generations are not the naive or sometimes God-fearing young ladies of previous generations. Many of these 14-to 17-year-olds know exactly what they are doing…And I do not believe teens are much more vulnerable to flashy lifestyles or offers of gifts/money than many many adult women. I believe that today’s teens are as savvy and knowledgeable in sexual matters as many adults– often more so–making me very suspect of using the age of “victim” as an absolute criterion for culpability.
When an adult woman is raped or sexually assaulted, she is often subjected to a discovery process and cross examination about her sexual history or CONTRIBUTORY CONDUCT. Although I practiced/litigated in a different area, I often was in a courtroom listening to these cases…It is now my opinion that some of these older alleged teenaged “victims” should be subjected to the same critical discovery about their sexual exploitation of others and their other history. But I also understand the existence of-AND NEED FOR-statutory rape statutes and the fact that currently, some limited “cross-examination” may be allowed. But should society reconsider the RANGE of protected age in relevant statutes? Should we allow critical questioning of some older teenage “victims” in these cases instead of immediately declaring them “victims?” We all know that in olden days, 14-16-year-olds could legally marry. Go on, throw it at me…or (preferred) agree or counter my thoughts with substantive argument.
(p.s., I am in no way supporting excuse or non-culpability for men/boys in these cases.)
Lin,
In other words, it takes 2 to tango.
Have girls ever been “God-fearing” or have young women been seducing boys and men since the dawn of time? After all, the purpose of the human race as made clear in Genesis is procreation. Up until fairly recently, prostitution was legal in the United States and those young women who worked as whores were teenage girls. I placed the girls I knew on pedestals when I was in high school in the early sixties but ten years later, I realized they were as aggressive as depicted in movies; they had just kept it hidden.
I don’t think the story is over. But the alleged “johns” are nowhere near the real evidence that trapped Maxwell. With her, there was real evidence of money changing hands and of her actual presence and/or participation in sex acts with underage girls. I don’t know of the details that are specific enough to justify investigations with these men. That would be very, very public and could embarrass the agency if it came up empty. But Maxwell’s record was a slam dunk by comparison.
Massages are not sex acts. Epstein is alleged to have masturbated in front of some of the girls but they didn’t touch him sexually. I suspect a lot of the “testimony” was made up.
“However, that statement only begged the question of why none of the men listed on flights of the “Lolita Express” or on the guest lists of these parties have been prosecuted.”
*****************************
Two-tiered justice at its worstest!
Prosecuted for what? Flying on an airplane is not a crime. Neither is attendance at an exclusive resort in the Caribbean.
Semc: “Prosecuted for what?”
+++
Maybe for transporting underage girls out of the country and screwing them.
Asked and answered.
Mann Act
Semc–
You don’t even have to export your underage girls.
If you fly to Thailand, stay in a nice vacation spot, and have sex with underage Thai girls, you might find a pair of handcuffs waiting for you when you get off the plane back in the US. It has happened.
The US is trying to curb sex tourism because the local countries are paid to look the other way by the local sex traffickers.
What am I doing with my life?
Why not let God govern everything?